throbber
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`571-272-7822
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`Paper No. 58
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`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`__________
`
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`__________
`
`PANASONIC CORPORATION, PANASONIC CORPORATION OF
`NORTH AMERICA, GOPRO, INC.,
`GARMIN INTERNATIONAL, INC., AND GARMIN USA, INC.,
`Petitioners
`
`v.
`
`CELLSPIN SOFT, INC.
`Patent Owner.
`
`__________
`
`Case IPR2019--00131
` Patent 9,258,698 B2
`
`__________
`RECORD OF ORAL HEARING
`Oral Hearing Held January 28, 2020
`__________
`
`Before GREGG I. ANDERSON, DANIEL J. GALLIGAN, and STACY B.
`MARGOLIES, Administrative Patent Judges.
`
`
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`Case IPR2019-00131
`Patent 9,258,698 B2
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`
`
`APPEARANCES:
`
`
`ON BEHALF OF THE PETITIONER:
`
`
`T. VANN PEARCE, JR ESQ
`of: Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe LLP
`1152 15th St, NW
`Washington D.C. 20005-1706
`(202) 339-8696
`vpearce@orrick.com
`
`DAVID R. MEDINA, ESQ
`of: Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe LLP
`1000 Marsh Rd
`Menlo Park, CA 94025-1015
`(650) 289-7139
`dmedina@orrick.com
`
`
`
`ON BEHALF OF THE PATENT OWNER:
`
`
`JOHN J. EDMONDS, ESQ
`of: Edmonds & Schlather PLLC
`2501 Saltus Street
`Houston, Texas 77003
`(713) 364-5291
`jedmonds@ip-lit.com
`
`RENE VAZQUEZ, ESQ.
`of: Garteiser Honea
`18296 St. Georges Ct.
`Leesburg, VA 20176
`(703) 989-2244
`
`
`
`
`
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`Case IPR2019-00131
`Patent 9,258,698 B2
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`
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`The above-entitled matter came on for hearing on Tuesday,
`
`January 28, 2020, commencing at 3:40 p.m. at the U.S. Patent and
`Trademark Office, 600 Dulany Street, Alexandria, Virginia
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`P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S
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`3:40 p.m.
`JUDGE MARGOLIES: We are here for a final hearing in
`IPR2019-00131, captioned Panasonic Corporation, Panasonic
`Corporation of North America, GoPro, Inc, Garmin International, Inc.
`and Garmin USA, Inc. v., Cellspin Soft, Inc.
`We'll introduce the panel. I am Judge Margolies, here in
`Alexandria. Judge Anderson is appearing via video from California,
`and Judge Galligan is appearing via video from our Dallas Regional
`Office.
`
`Let's get the parties' appearances. Who do we have appearing
`on behalf of Petitioner?
`MR. PEARCE: Good afternoon, Your Honors. Vann Pearce
`from Orrick, on behalf of the Petitioners, and with me is my colleague
`David Medina.
`
`JUDGE MARGOLIES: Good afternoon, Counsel.
`MR. MEDINA: Good afternoon.
`JUDGE MARGOLIES: Who do we have appearing on
`behalf of Patent Owner?
`MR. EDMONDS: Good afternoon, Your Honors. John
`Edmonds on behalf of the Patent Owner, Cellspin Soft, and to my left
`is my co-counsel, Mr. Rene Vazquez.
`JUDGE MARGOLIES: Thank you. Welcome.
`We set forth the procedure for today's hearing in our trial
`hearing order. And as a reminder, Petitioner Panasonic and Patent
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`Case IPR2019-00131
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`Owner each will have one hour of total time to present arguments,
`including arguments regarding the parties' Motions to Strike.
`Petitioner has the burden of proof and will go first. Patent Owner
`will, then, present opposition arguments. Then, to the extent Petitioner
`has reserved his time, Petitioner will present rebuttal arguments. And
`then, to the extent Patent Owner has reserved time, Patent Owner will
`present surrebuttal arguments.
`As per the prior hearing, for clarity in the transcript and for the
`benefit of Judges Anderson and Galligan who are participating
`remotely, when you refer to an exhibit on the screen, please identify
`the exhibit number and page number. And when you refer to the
`demonstrative slides, please identify the slide number.
`In Paper 51, Patent Owner objected to some Petitioner's
`demonstrative exhibits. Yesterday, we held a prehearing conference
`and we ruled that Petitioner may use that demonstrative exhibits
`during today's hearing.
`
`Are there any questions on behalf of Patent Owner at this
`
`time?
`
`MR. EDMONDS: Yes, Your Honor. Just a similar issue that
`I raised at the ’127 proceeding we just finished. Just so the record is
`clear, because I don't think that the telephonic hearing yesterday was
`transcribed, it was our understanding that the Board has said that the
`objections in the Motions to Strike -- in our case, it was also styled as
`a Motion to Exclude -- are preserved and that the parties need not
`object to each other's argument and, in fact, they should not be
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`Case IPR2019-00131
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`interrupting each other to argue. And that we can comment on those
`motions, but that those issues are preserved. Can I just confirm that?
`JUDGE MARGOLIES: Yes, correct.
`MR. EDMONDS: Thank you, Your Honor.
`JUDGE MARGOLIES: Petitioner, do you have any
`questions?
`MR. PEARCE: No, Your Honor.
`JUDGE MARGOLIES: Okay. Petitioner, would you like to
`reserve some time for rebuttal?
`MR. PEARCE: Yes, 20 minutes, please.
`JUDGE MARGOLIES: Twenty minutes? Okay.
`You may begin when you're ready.
`MR. PEARCE: Thank you, and good afternoon, Your
`Honors. Again, Vann Pearce on behalf of the Panasonic parties. I
`mentioned that my co-counsel, David Medina, is with me. I'd also like
`to introduce in the audience Mr. Ekaita (phonetic) and Mr. Dono
`(phonetic) who have come here from Japan, and also Mr. Hasaka
`(phonetic). All three of them are representatives of Panasonic.
`If I may, before going into the demonstrative exhibits, I'd like
`to begin with just a brief overview of the reasons why the challenged
`claims in this IPR are unpatentable.
`As in the ’ IPR involving Canon, the main contention that
`Cellspin is making here is that the prior art, while it expressly
`discloses a Bluetooth connection between a digital camera and a
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`Case IPR2019-00131
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`cellular phone, according to Cellspin does not disclose or render
`obvious a paired or cryptographically-authenticated connection.
`One point that I would like to focus on today is the particular
`disclosure of the Bluetooth connection in the Mashita prior art
`reference, which is Exhibit 1006, which is unique to this IPR.
`Mashita's disclosure matches the disclosure in the ’698 patent itself,
`establishing a paired and cryptographically-authenticated Bluetooth
`connection in the ’698 patent's exemplary embodiment. And it also
`acknowledged, as it of course must, the challenged claims are
`practiced by that exemplary embodiment in the ’698 patent. So,
`accordingly, this match between Mashita and the ’698 patent alone is
`convincing proof that the limitation is met here.
`Because Mashita's disclosure is dispositive on this point, the
`arguments that Cellspin is making in response are, by and large, moot.
`The claim construction issues, the disputes about claim construction
`of paired and cryptographically-authenticating are not relevant. It also
`doesn't matter if pairing is optional or not in the Bluetooth
`specifications because Mashita discloses parent.
`Now we've also shown in our petition, and also further
`confirmed in the reply, that the Bluetooth specification documents
`provide further support for our arguments that the description in
`Mashita also matches the description of pairing in the Bluetooth
`specifications. And we have, furthermore, shown why, at minimum,
`this limitation would have been obvious to a person of ordinary skill
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`Case IPR2019-00131
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`in the art. Those are additional bases for why the claims are
`unpatentable here.
`Besides the dispute about pairing and cryptographic
`authentication, Cellspin has raised four other arguments that we
`submit can be disposed of relatively quickly. They all rely on either
`plain misreadings of the prior art or incorrect claim constructions for
`that.
`
`So, that is an overview of the issues here. And with that, I will
`turn to the demonstrative exhibits, going to Slide 2, to begin with.
`Slide 2, again, lists the five issues that we understand to be
`contested by Cellspin here. I plan to focus my remarks on those
`issues. Of course, I am happy to answer any questions the Board has
`about any aspect of our proof of unpatentability.
`If I could go to Slide 5, please. Slide 5 just indicates what the
`challenged claims are in this proceeding and, also, that there is one
`ground of unpatentability which is obviousness based on the
`combination of three references: Mashita, Onishi, and Hiraishi,
`which are Exhibits 1006, 1008, and 1010.
`If we go to Slide 6, this is just an overview of Mashita which
`discloses most of the limitations of the challenged claims. This is an
`obviousness case because there are a few limitations in which we are
`combining the disclosure of Mashita with the other two references.
`Going to Slide 7, what Slide 7 depicts is the basic system in
`both Mashita and the ’698 patent. There is a connection between a
`camera and a cellular phone. It's a Bluetooth connection that's used to
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`transfer an image from the camera to the phone, and then, the phone
`transfers that image to the internet. These aspects, as best we can
`understand, are not contested.
`Going to Slide 8, please, Slide 8 just is an overview of the
`Onishi reference which, again, also has a connection between a
`cellular phone and a digital camera that's a Bluetooth connection. And
`primarily what we cite the Onishi reference for is the disclosure of
`using the phone to delete a file on the digital camera.
`And finally, Slide 9 is an overview of the Hiraishi reference.
`Hiraishi, again, is very similar to Mashita. It's talking about a
`connection between a camera and a phone to transfer an image. The
`phone then transfers the image to the internet. Hiraishi expressly says
`that that transfer from a phone to the internet is done, or can be done,
`using HTTP, which meets that particular limitation of the challenged
`claims. And it also provides some additional details with respect to
`what we've called Limitation G.
`So, with that, let me turn to the first disputed issue, which I'll
`go to Slide 10, please. The first issue that I want to address, again, is
`this issue of the paired connection and cryptographically authenticate.
`The claim language is shown on Slide 11, and obviously, there is a
`lengthy discussion of these issues in the proceeding that just occurred
`before this one. I'll try not to retread that ground and just focus on
`some of the key issues that are unique to this proceeding.
`If we could go to Slide 25, Slide 25 shows the issue regarding
`claim construction, and we have proposed a construction for paired;
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`Cellspin has. The point that I want to focus on here that we've
`highlighted on the slide is -- and I think this was discussed quite a bit
`in the last proceeding as well -- at minimum, a Bluetooth paired
`connection would meet Patent Owner's construction. I don't think
`that's a disputed question. And as we'll show in a moment, that's what
`the prior art here expressly discloses.
`Going to Slide 13, in the next few slides I'll go through a
`comparison of the ’698 patent, which will be shown on the left-hand
`side. And that's Exhibit 1003, and then, on the right-hand side, the
`disclosure of Mashita, which is Exhibit 1006.
`The first slide here, Slide 13, just shows that both references
`are disclosing a Bluetooth connection between the camera and the
`cellular phone, but that, again, I think is not a point that anyone is
`disputing. And we could, essentially, just pause here. As we discuss in
`the petition, and also as there was some discussion earlier today, there
`is ample evidence that this alone would meet Limitation C, because,
`for example, all Bluetooth devices must support pairing, as we've
`indicated and shown in Exhibit 1020. This is the Basic Imaging
`Profile, or BIP.
`And I will just comment here. It does seem like what the
`Patent Owner has done to some degree in its response to this is kind of
`used Bluetooth as both a sword and a shield. When it's been
`convenient for Patent Owner, they have taken the position that a
`person skilled in the art would understand the Bluetooth specifications
`and at times would read aspects of the Bluetooth specifications into
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`the claims. And then, again, at the same time, they're saying that, well,
`just disclosing Bluetooth in the prior art is not enough. But Mashita
`goes well beyond just disclosing Bluetooth.
`This go to Slide 14, please. So, I want to spend some time
`looking at the disclosure in the ’698 patent's specification of
`establishing a paired, encryptographically-authenticated connection,
`and the, compare that to the disclosure in Mashita. So, what we see
`here on Slide 14 on the left-hand side is from column 4 of the ’698
`patent. What we see on the right-hand side is from paragraph 51 of
`Mashita.
`So, looking here at the ’698 patent, it talks about, if you go on
`Slide 3, "In order to initiate the pairing process between the two
`devices," the two BT or Bluetooth devices, a common password
`known as passkey is exchanged between the devices." And then, it
`goes on to say, "A passkey is a code shared by the two devices."
`Well, let's compare that to Mashita.
`In Mashita, it says that "An Identical Personal Identification
`number, PIN, code is input into both devices." So, again, in both
`disclosures we have an identical code that's being input into both
`devices.
`JUDGE MARGOLIES: Isn't there a difference between
`passkey and PIN?
`MR. PEARCE: No, Your Honor there's not. And let me
`actually jump to that because that's one of the main points that the
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`Case IPR2019-00131
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`Patent Owner has made to try to distinguish and try to create some
`daylight between Mashita and the ’698 patent.
`Let's go to Slide 19. So, this is from the version of the
`specification that Patent Owner put forward in its response. And as
`you allude to, Your Honor, Patent Owner is saying there is a
`difference between passkey and PIN and that difference somehow
`matters here.
`Well, this is from the Bluetooth specification that Patent
`Owner has cited. It's a section discussing Bluetooth passkey. And
`as you can see in the heading -- and this is on page 1258 of Exhibit
`2018 -- the heading for this section says, "Bluetooth Passkey
`(Bluetooth PIN)". Then, at the bottom of the slide here, it says, "When
`the Bluetooth PIN is referred to on the UI" -- or User Interface
`level -- "the term Bluetooth passkey should be used."
`So, it's telling us that these two terms can be, and, in fact,
`should be, used synonymously in a particular context. I'll also point
`out here that it says, "The PIN is used in the pairing procedure." As
`we just looked at a moment ago with Mashita, Mashita expressly
`discloses using a PIN in both devices. What we see from looking at
`the Bluetooth specifications -- and there are a number of other
`examples -- is that descriptions of entering a PIN in both devices
`inevitably lead to a paired connection. That's further evidence
`supporting our position that what Mashita is disclosing is a process of
`pairing.
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`If we go to the next slide, Slide 20, this is testimony from Dr.
`Foley, Cellspin's expert witness, which just confirms that when we're
`reading the ’698 patent, it's talking about the User Interface and what's
`happening at the User Interface. So, the user is inputting his passkey
`into the User Interface. So, it's not surprising that the ’698 patent is
`following the nomenclature of the Bluetooth specification at that time
`and using the word "passkey". But, as we just saw, there's no relative
`distinction between passkey and patent.
`If I could go back to Slide 14, going down on the ’698 patent,
`again, to the bottom of the slide, as it says here, "Upon entering" -- or
`excuse me -- "On entering the passkey by the user of the mobile
`device, there's a matching that's done between the passkey on both
`devices." And then, that last sentence is important. "If a match is
`found, a trusted pair is automatically established.
`Automatically -- there's nothing else that needs to happen here. The
`user just has to input the passkey. Everything else is done behind the
`scenes by the operation of Bluetooth.
`Again, likewise, on Mashita, on the right-hand side, paragraph
`51, the user inputs the PIN code into both devices, and then, the
`cellular, thus, establishes a link with the digital camera, a local
`wireless connection. Again, the PIN code in both descriptions is
`entered, and that's all that happens.
`Going to Slide 15, the ’698 patent also describes that there is a
`transmission of the BT address. You see that on Slide --
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`JUDGE MARGOLIES: Can we just actually stop for a
`minute and go back to the prior slide? I mean, I feel like you're
`supplementing what's in Mashita by ’698. I know what you're trying
`to do here, but it seems like you're adding words to Mashita. Mashita
`doesn't say "pairing". So, I just want you to do it divorced. I mean,
`you can do what you want to do, but how do I know that this is
`pairing, I guess, looking just at the reference, or whatever it is that you
`have?
`
`MR. PEARCE: Sure. There are a few different ways that we
`know that what Mashita is describing is pairing. The first way, which
`is what I was going through here, is comparing the disclosure of the
`’698 patent in Mashita. So, that's one aspect of it.
`Another aspect of it, though, is looking to the Bluetooth
`specification documents. So, if we go to Slide 17, in our petition we
`cited pages from the Bluetooth specification documents, and Dr.
`Strawn, our expert witness, also discussed these documents in order to
`explain why a person skilled in the art reading Mashita would
`understand that Mashita is describing a pairing process. This is one
`portion of the specification. This is, again, from the specification. It's
`describing pairing, as it says here.
`And it says, "But when two devices do not have a common
`link key, an initialization key shall be created based on a PIN, a
`random number, and BD_ADDR," which is a reference to a Bluetooth
`address. And we just saw a discussion of Bluetooth address. That's
`also discussed in Mashita itself, and I could go back and show that.
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`But, again, when we have this PIN that is input into both
`devices, that is what is initiating this pairing process, according to the
`specifications. This is one example from the Bluetooth specifications,
`but there are a number of others.
`But other point that I'll make here on this slide before moving
`on, as you can see if we go down the page -- and this is, just for
`reference, page 29 of Exhibit 1017 -- as it says here, "This pairing
`involves a mutual authentication." So, the two mains in which
`Cellspin has tried to distinguish Mashita from the ’698 patent is, one,
`to say there's a distinction between passkey and PIN. And I addressed
`that a moment ago. The other is to say, well, Mashita calls this an
`authentication process and doesn't use the word "pairing". But what
`we see in the Bluetooth specifications, and what a person skilled in
`the art would know, is that pairing is an authentication process.
`Pairing does have this mutual authentication, as it says here. So, it's
`entirely accurate for Mashita to describe pairing as authentication, as
`it does.
`If I could turn then to Slide 18, this is a portion of the Version
`2.1 Bluetooth specification that Cellspin has cited in its response.
`And this is something that Cellspin has cited for the notion that
`pairing is optional. And Your Honors have heard about that earlier
`today.
`
`But, even if you look at just this, quote-unquote, "optional
`pairing step," Step 7A, the way that the specifications describe that
`happening, as shown here on the right-hand side of the slide, is by the
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`Case IPR2019-00131
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`user inputting a PIN code into both devices, which, again, is exactly
`matching the description in Mashita.
`So, according to the specifications -- and there's no dispute
`that a person skilled in the art would know and understand how to
`look at the Bluetooth specifications to understand Bluetooth -- the
`entry of a PIN code, again, is part of this pairing process. This step
`also says -- and it's a little bit hard to read here, but it's in what we've
`got highlighted on the top -- that, "As part of this process, the PIN
`code is requested on both sides of the connection and authentication is
`performed based on the PIN code." So, again, when Mashita describes
`its process as authentication, that's exactly right, that that is part of the
`pairing process here.
`I'll also go to Slide 29. This is from Exhibit 1001, which is Dr.
`Strawn's opening declaration in paragraph 87. We cited this in our
`petition at 41. He's again discussing some of the same Bluetooth
`specification documents that we've looked at already. And it's
`explaining from these documents how the authentication happens
`based on a PIN and, again, points out that this closely matches the
`description given in both the ’698 patent and Mashita.
`One point that I want to emphasize here is there's no
`disclosure in the Bluetooth specifications that Cellspin has pointed to
`at any point of a user entering a PIN code into the two devices and
`having that lead to something other than pairing. So, it's consistent on
`this point. A PIN entry leads to pairing, and that's what Mashita
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`discloses. Now we would submit that that alone is sufficient
`evidence on this point.
`I'll address briefly the cryptographically-authenticating portion
`of the limitation. If we can go back to Slide 14, looking at the right-
`hand side -- again, this is Mashita at paragraph 51 -- it says here
`explicitly that Mashita is executing an authentication process for a
`local wireless connection. And it also says here, either here or maybe
`it's on the next slide, Slide 15 -- there it is.
`So, at the top right of Slide 15, paragraph 30, as it says here,
`"Mashita is using a physical address for identification of the portable
`device in Bluetooth communication." So, Mashita is expressly
`disclosing authentication. It's expressly disclosing identification.
`And the question is, if there is a question, is that cryptographic
`authentication? And the answer is yes.
`If we go to Slide 26, Slide 26 shows the two competing
`constructions of cryptographically-authenticating, and we've
`highlighted, or bolded, rather, here what we think are really some of
`the key issues. Panasonic's construction points out that this
`authentication happens, or can happen at least, by use of a shared
`passkey on the two devices. That's what's disclosed in the ’698 patent
`itself.
`
`Going to Slide 28, as I think one of Your Honors pointed out
`earlier today, this is from column 3 and column 4 of the ’698 patent.
`It's the only disclosure in the patent of cryptographic authentication.
`As it says here, starting at column 3, line 65, about halfway down the
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`slide on the left, "A BT device that wants to communicate only with a
`trusted device can cryptographically-authenticate the identity of
`another BT device." And then, it immediately goes on to talk about
`Bluetooth pairing. So, that way that it teaches how to do that is
`throughput pairing and through using this common password known
`as a passkey, which we've talked about earlier.
`And then, if I go back to Slide 14, again, this is what we
`looked at earlier. This is at the end of that discussion in the ’698
`patent, going down to the bottom of column 4 that's shown here on the
`left. "If a match is found, a trusted pair is automatically established."
`So, again, it's not just a pair; it's a trusted pair. And we just saw the
`other excerpt saying that, if you want to establish a trusted
`communication, you cryptographically authenticate, and the way you
`do that is through a shared passkey.
`Again, looking at Mashita, which is here on the right, there is
`a shared passkey. It's this PIN code which is identical in both devices.
`And it's using the same procedure to cryptographically authenticate.
`So, again, regardless of how you construe this term, the term at least is
`covering what the ’698 patent is talking about, and that's also what
`Mashita is disclosing.
`Now we don't agree with Cellspin's -- if we go back to Slide
`26 -- we don't agree with Cellspin's construction to the extent it's
`saying you have to have encryption or decryption involving an
`algorithm. That's not supported by anything in the patent. It's not
`supported by any other evidence of record. It's a narrow construction
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`Case IPR2019-00131
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`that lacks support here, even though under that construction, it's
`certainly met by the Bluetooth process which Mashita is disclosing.
`We also explained in our reply brief and in our petition how
`that Bluetooth process does, in fact, involve an algorithm in order to
`cryptographically authenticate. So, again, we're meeting even
`Cellspin's construction.
`JUDGE MARGOLIES: I think one of the arguments is that
`cryptographic has I think a meaning to that term, and that's, I think,
`where the encryption algorithm comes in. Do you have a response to
`that?
`
`MR. PEARCE: Sure. I understand that to be Cellspin's
`argument. As we've pointed out in our construction, cryptographic, if
`you want to look at that term in isolation -- and we're not suggesting
`that that's appropriate because, again, it's part of a longer phrase -- but
`if you do look at that in isolation, cryptographic is invoking some sort
`of secrecy or security or encryption, and that would include the use of
`a shared passkey on the two devices. And again, that's what is
`described is in the ’698 patent. It's also consistent with the general
`meaning of something that's cryptographic, crypt, referring to secrecy
`of some sort.
`Cellspin's construction, I guess the construction itself is
`actually not limiting. It just says there's a verification, and it says,
`"including by use of encryption and decryption involving an
`algorithm". By its expressed terms, it's not necessarily requiring that.
`To the extent that that's how they're reading it, again, there's no
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`Case IPR2019-00131
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`disclosure in the ’698 patent of using an algorithm beyond what is
`inherent in Bluetooth. There just is discussion of Bluetooth. In fact,
`again, if you go back and look through the specifications, there is,
`indeed, such an algorithm that is used as part of this pairing process.
`So, Bluetooth pairing is necessarily going to meet the construction, if
`you want to read that, read the sort of algorithm requirement into it.
`If there are no further questions on this issue of pairing and
`cryptographic authentication, I'd like to turn to the other disputed
`issues.
`
`JUDGE ANDERSON: Let me just ask you one thing,
`Counselor.
`MR. PEARCE: Sure.
`JUDGE ANDERSON: I think this is a follow up to what
`Judge Margolies said a minute ago, so the comparison between the
`disclosures of Mashita and the ’698 patent. What you're really -- what
`we ultimately want to get to, of course, are the claims.
`MR. PEARCE: Sure.
`JUDGE ANDERSON: So can you articulate a little more
`precisely how that evidence relates to the claims just so we have a
`good -- have our arms around that in the right way?
`MR. PEARCE: Absolutely, Your Honor. The disclosure in
`the ’698 patent that I've been referring Your Honors to today is the
`only disclosure in the patent of pairing or cryptographic authentication
`of the identity. That's a description of the exemplary embodiment and
`it tells an exemplary way to do that using Bluetooth.
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`That method is clearly within the scope of the challenged
`claims no matter how those claims are construed and that's not an
`issue that I believe Cellspin is or could dispute. The challenged claims
`certainly are covering this Bluetooth pairing method that's described
`in the specification.
`So the reason why we're looking at that today is just a simple
`comparison here. If what Mashita is describing is effectively the same
`thing as the ’698 specification, then that has to be within the scope of
`the claims. And therefore, Mashita has to be disclosing this limitation.
`Again, we pointed out other evidence and other reasons in our
`petition and also in the reply. There is further support on this issue
`but, in some ways, looking at the comparison between the
`specification and Mashita we submit is there the simpler way to do
`things because we don't have to go wading through the details of the
`Bluetooth specification documents, for instance.
`So let me turn to some of the other issues that Cellspin has
`brought up as bases for why they say the challenged claims are not
`unpatentable. If I could turn to Slide 40. Slide 40 we're talking now
`about the second contested issue which relates to what we've given the
`nomenclature imitation G.
`Go to Slide 41. Limitation G, if I could paraphrase it, talks
`about the camera is receiving a data transfer request from the cellular
`phone over the Bluetooth connection for a new media file which could
`be, for example, an image file. That new media file has to have been
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`Case IPR2019-00131
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`created by an individual camera before the transfer request is
`received.
`We have relied on the combination of Mashita and Hiraishi for
`this reference. As shown here on the right-hand slide, this is quoting
`from paragraph 61 and 64 of Mashita. Mashita has a file transfer
`program on the cellular phone which will initiate the transfer
`operation. And there is, of course, the connection, which we've talked
`about, and the phone will receive the image file.
`What Mashita doesn't expressly talk about here is, it says the
`program on the phone is initiating the overall process. It doesn't say
`expressly that there is a specific data transfer request from the phone.
`It also isn't expressly clear that that transfer happens for a file that was
`created before the request was sent.
`If you go to Slide 42, Hiraishi has both those elements. As it
`says here in Hiraishi which is again Exhibit 1010, paragraph 17, upon
`receiving a command from the OS or dedicated software installed in
`the PC -- and by the way, Hiraishi says elsewhere that the PC can be a
`mobile phone. So when you see PC here, you can think cellular
`phone. So it has the specific command for the data transfer request.
`And then it says that the image input device, the camera, will transfer
`data that's already been stored in its memory.
`So combining those two disclosures, we get to Limitation G
`and we explained there are really two different ways you coul

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