·1· · · ·UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
`·2· · · · · · · · ______________________
`
`·3· · · ·BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`·4· · · · · · · · _______________________
`
`·5
`
`·6· · · · ·ENSIGN US SOUTHERN DRILLING LLC,
`
`·7· · · · · · · · · · Petitioner,
`
`·8
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · V.
`·9
`
`10· · · · · · C&M OILFIELD RENTALS, LLC
`· · · · · · ·D/B/A C-MOR ENERGY SERVICES,
`11· · · · · · · · · ·Patent Owner.
`
`12
`
`13· · · · · · · Case No. IPR2023-00804
`
`14· · · · · · · ·Patent No. 10,976,016
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17· ·*************************************************
`· · · ·ORAL AND VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF JAKE HAMDAN
`18· · · · · · · · · · JANUARY 10, 2024
`· · ·*************************************************
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`C&M Oilfield Rentals Ex. 2012 - Page 1
`Ensign US Southern Drilling LLC v. C&M Oilfield Rentals LLC
`IPR2023-00804 - U.S. Patent No. 10,976,016
`
`
`
`·2· · · · · · · · ______________________
`
`·3· · · ·BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`·4· · · · · · · · _______________________
`
`·5
`
`·6· · · · ·ENSIGN US SOUTHERN DRILLING LLC,
`
`·7· · · · · · · · · · Petitioner,
`
`·8
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · V.
`·9
`
`10· · · · · · C&M OILFIELD RENTALS, LLC
`· · · · · · ·D/B/A C-MOR ENERGY SERVICES,
`11· · · · · · · · · ·Patent Owner.
`
`12
`
`13· · · · · · · Case No. IPR2023-00804
`
`14· · · · · · · ·Patent No. 10,976,016
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17· ·*************************************************
`· · · ·ORAL AND VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF JAKE HAMDAN
`18· · · · · · · · · · JANUARY 10, 2024
`· · ·*************************************************
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`C&M Oilfield Rentals Ex. 2012 - Page 1
`Ensign US Southern Drilling LLC v. C&M Oilfield Rentals LLC
`IPR2023-00804 - U.S. Patent No. 10,976,016
`
`
`
`·1· · · ORAL AND VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF JAKE HAMDAN,
`
`·2· produced as a witness at the instance of the Defendant and
`
`·3· duly sworn, was taken in the above styled and numbered
`
`·4· cause on Wednesday, January 10, 2024, from 9:05 a.m. to
`
`·5· 6:07 p.m., before SARA BIELAMOWICZ, CSR, RPR in and for
`
`·6· the State of Texas, reported by computerized stenotype
`
`·7· machine, at the offices of Hunton Andrews Kurth LLP, 600
`
`·8· Travis Street, Suite 4200, Houston, Texas, pursuant to the
`
`·9· Federal Rules of Civil Procedure and any provisions stated
`
`10· on the record herein.
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`C&M Oilfield Rentals Ex. 2012 - Page 2
`Ensign US Southern Drilling LLC v. C&M Oilfield Rentals LLC
`IPR2023-00804 - U.S. Patent No. 10,976,016
`
`
`
`·1· · · · · · · · · · ·A P P E A R A N C E S
`
`·2
`· · FOR THE PLAINTIFF:
`·3· · · ·Mr. Gregory L. Porter
`· · · · ·Mr. Neil Kelly
`·4· · · ·HUNTON ANDREWS KURTH LLP
`· · · · ·600 Travis Street, Suite 4200
`·5· · · ·Houston, Texas· 77002
`· · · · ·713.220.4621
`·6· · · ·gregporter@huntonak.com
`· · · · ·neilkelly@huntonak.com
`·7
`
`·8· FOR THE DEFENDANT:
`· · · · ·Ms. Karon Fowler
`·9· · · ·MORGAN LEWIS
`· · · · ·110 North Wacker Drive
`10· · · ·Chicago, Illinois· 60606-1511
`· · · · ·312.324.1142
`11· · · ·karon.fowler@morganlewis.com
`
`12
`· · VIDEOGRAPHER:
`13· · · MR. MIKE DAVIS
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`C&M Oilfield Rentals Ex. 2012 - Page 3
`Ensign US Southern Drilling LLC v. C&M Oilfield Rentals LLC
`IPR2023-00804 - U.S. Patent No. 10,976,016
`
`
`
`·1· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·I N D E X
`
`·2
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · PAGE
`·3
`
`·4· ·APPEARANCES................................· · 3
`
`·5· · · ·JAKE HAMDAN
`
`·6· ·EXAMINATION
`· · · · ·BY MS. FOWLER..........................· · 6
`·7· · · ·BY MR. PORTER..........................· 388
`
`·8
`· · ·CORRECTIONS AND SIGNATURE..................· 397
`·9
`· · ·REPORTER'S CERTIFICATION...................· 399
`10
`
`11
`
`12· · · · · · · · · · · ·E X H I B I T S
`
`13· ·NO.· · · · · ·DESCRIPTION· · · · · · · · · ·PAGE
`· · ·Exhibit 1· · ·Declaration of Jake
`14· · · · · · · · ·Hamdan, DMS 301678903· · · · · ·92
`· · ·Exhibit 2· · ·Gowlanlock Reference,
`15· · · · · · · · ·Exhibit 1003· · · · · · · · · ·116
`· · ·Exhibit 3· · ·Photograph· · · · · · · · · · ·123
`16· ·Exhibit 4· · ·Photograph· · · · · · · · · · ·133
`· · ·Exhibit 5· · ·Email from Mr. Hamdan to
`17· · · · · · · · ·Mr. Geddes, Subject:· ELLS
`· · · · · · · · · ·Lite, 11/9/21,
`18· · · · · · · · ·Ensign0020978· · · · · · · · · 160
`· · ·Exhibit 6· · ·Email String, Subject:
`19· · · · · · · · ·ELLS, 12/7/21,
`· · · · · · · · · ·Ensign0018629-0018632· · · · · 219
`20· ·Exhibit 7· · ·Mr. Hamdan's Copy of
`· · · · · · · · · ·Declaration, DMS 301678903· · ·269
`21· ·Exhibit 8· · ·Swivelpole Product
`· · · · · · · · · ·Catalogue, Exhibit 1004· · · · 302
`22· ·Exhibit 9· · ·Photograph· · · · · · · · · · ·326
`· · ·Exhibit 10· · Photograph· · · · · · · · · · ·328
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`C&M Oilfield Rentals Ex. 2012 - Page 4
`Ensign US Southern Drilling LLC v. C&M Oilfield Rentals LLC
`IPR2023-00804 - U.S. Patent No. 10,976,016
`
`
`
`·1· · · · · · · · · · · · ·INDEX (Cont.)
`
`·2· ·Exhibit 11· · Memo from Mr. Geddes to
`· · · · · · · · · ·Global Sales Team, 4/6/21,
`·3· · · · · · · · ·Ensign0042441-0042442· · · · · 337
`· · ·Exhibit 12· · Technical Drawings for C&M
`·4· · · · · · · · ·Crown Jewel Lighting
`· · · · · · · · · ·System.
`·5· · · · · · · · ·Ensign0098443-0098445· · · · · 355
`
`·6
`
`·7
`
`·8· REPORTER'S NOTE:
`
`·9· All quotations from exhibits are reflected in the manner
`
`10· in which they were read into the record and do not
`
`11· necessarily denote an exact quote from the document.
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`C&M Oilfield Rentals Ex. 2012 - Page 5
`Ensign US Southern Drilling LLC v. C&M Oilfield Rentals LLC
`IPR2023-00804 - U.S. Patent No. 10,976,016
`
`
`
`·1· · · · · · · · VIDEOGRAPHER:· Today is
`
`·2· · · · ·Wednesday, January 10, 2024.· We are
`
`·3· · · · ·on the record at 9:05 a.m.
`
`·4· · · · · · · · (Witness sworn.)
`
`·5· · · · · · · · MR. PORTER:· Karon, before you
`
`·6· · · · ·start, we're going to object to the
`
`·7· · · · ·video recording.· We didn't agree
`
`·8· · · · ·under the PTAB rules to video record
`
`·9· · · · ·this deposition.
`
`10· · · · · · · · MS. FOWLER:· Okay.· But you
`
`11· · · · ·will agree to allow the deposition to
`
`12· · · · ·proceed with the video recording
`
`13· · · · ·subject to your objection to be
`
`14· · · · ·resolved by the board later?
`
`15· · · · · · · · MR. PORTER:· That will be fine.
`
`16· · · · · · · · MS. FOWLER:· Okay.· Wonderful.
`
`17
`
`18· · · · · · · · · ·JAKE HAMDAN,
`
`19· ·HAVING BEEN DULY SWORN, TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS:
`
`20· · · · · · · · · · EXAMINATION
`
`21· ·BY MS. FOWLER:
`
`22· · · · ·Q.· ·Good morning, Mr. Hamdan.
`
`23· · · · ·A.· ·Good morning.
`
`24· · · · ·Q.· ·My name is Karon Fowler.· I'm from the
`
`25· · ·law firm of Morgan Lewis & Bockius, and I am
`
`C&M Oilfield Rentals Ex. 2012 - Page 6
`Ensign US Southern Drilling LLC v. C&M Oilfield Rentals LLC
`IPR2023-00804 - U.S. Patent No. 10,976,016
`
`
`
`·1· ·representing the patent owner C&M in this
`
`·2· ·matter.
`
`·3· · · ·A.· ·Okay.
`
`·4· · · ·Q.· ·Can you please state your full name
`
`·5· ·for the record.
`
`·6· · · ·A.· ·It is Jake Hamdan.
`
`·7· · · ·Q.· ·Today if you don't understand the
`
`·8· ·question that I ask at any point in time,
`
`·9· ·please let me know, and I'll be happy to
`
`10· ·rephrase or repeat it.· But if you do not ask
`
`11· ·me to rephrase or repeat it, I'll assume that
`
`12· ·you understood the question.· Okay?
`
`13· · · ·A.· ·Sounds good.
`
`14· · · ·Q.· ·And we'll try to take breaks
`
`15· ·periodically today.
`
`16· · · ·A.· ·Okay.
`
`17· · · ·Q.· ·We're both drinking coffee and water,
`
`18· ·so we may need a bio break at some point.· We
`
`19· ·will try to take those regularly.
`
`20· · · · · · If at any point in time you need a
`
`21· ·break, please ask me.
`
`22· · · ·A.· ·Okay.
`
`23· · · ·Q.· ·We just can't take a break while a
`
`24· ·question is pending.
`
`25· · · ·A.· ·Sure.· Sure.
`
`C&M Oilfield Rentals Ex. 2012 - Page 7
`Ensign US Southern Drilling LLC v. C&M Oilfield Rentals LLC
`IPR2023-00804 - U.S. Patent No. 10,976,016
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·Q.· ·Is there any reason why you cannot
`
`·2· ·testify truthfully today?
`
`·3· · · ·A.· ·No.
`
`·4· · · ·Q.· ·Have you been deposed -- deposed
`
`·5· ·before today?
`
`·6· · · ·A.· ·Never.
`
`·7· · · ·Q.· ·Have you previously served as an
`
`·8· ·expert in any court case?
`
`·9· · · ·A.· ·No.
`
`10· · · ·Q.· ·Have you previously served as an
`
`11· ·expert in connection with any inter partes
`
`12· ·review proceeding?
`
`13· · · ·A.· ·No.
`
`14· · · ·Q.· ·Have you previously served as an
`
`15· ·expert in connection with any proceeding before
`
`16· ·the US Patent and Trademark Office?
`
`17· · · ·A.· ·No.
`
`18· · · ·Q.· ·Ensign US Southern Drilling LLC is the
`
`19· ·petitioner in this action, correct?
`
`20· · · ·A.· ·Sorry.· Say that again.
`
`21· · · ·Q.· ·Sure.
`
`22· · · ·A.· ·Ensign --
`
`23· · · ·Q.· ·Ensign US --
`
`24· · · ·A.· ·Oh, Ensign.
`
`25· · · ·Q.· ·Ensign.
`
`C&M Oilfield Rentals Ex. 2012 - Page 8
`Ensign US Southern Drilling LLC v. C&M Oilfield Rentals LLC
`IPR2023-00804 - U.S. Patent No. 10,976,016
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·A.· ·Yes.
`
`·2· · · ·Q.· ·Ensign.· Okay.· I'm sorry.
`
`·3· · · · · · Ensign US Southern Drilling LLC is the
`
`·4· ·petitioner in this action, correct?
`
`·5· · · ·A.· ·I'm not the commercial kind of
`
`·6· ·terminology.
`
`·7· · · ·Q.· ·Sure.
`
`·8· · · ·A.· ·There's a lot of offices.· That's --
`
`·9· ·yes, that is correct.
`
`10· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· And I see you are referring
`
`11· ·to --
`
`12· · · ·A.· ·My declaration.
`
`13· · · ·Q.· ·-- a -- the declaration?
`
`14· · · ·A.· ·Correct.
`
`15· · · ·Q.· ·So you brought a copy of the
`
`16· ·declaration with you today?
`
`17· · · ·A.· ·That is correct.
`
`18· · · ·Q.· ·What other materials did you bring
`
`19· ·with you today?
`
`20· · · ·A.· ·I brought -- I brought copies of
`
`21· ·patents.· The Gowanlock patent.· I brought
`
`22· ·the C&M patent, '016.· Gowanlock patent '348.
`
`23· ·I brought some publications.· I brought the
`
`24· ·Apollo patent as well, design patent. I
`
`25· ·brought a copy of the Chinese patent that we
`
`C&M Oilfield Rentals Ex. 2012 - Page 9
`Ensign US Southern Drilling LLC v. C&M Oilfield Rentals LLC
`IPR2023-00804 - U.S. Patent No. 10,976,016
`
`
`
`·1· ·had submitted in the declaration.
`
`·2· · · · · · I have both -- I have two
`
`·3· ·translations.· I have a certified translation
`
`·4· ·that was submitted with the declaration, and
`
`·5· ·I have a second copy, which was the machine
`
`·6· ·translation that has a little bit of
`
`·7· ·differences in terminology.
`
`·8· · · · · · I also brought a copy of API 4F and
`
`·9· ·4G.· API 4F is a design manual or recommended
`
`10· ·practice from the American Petroleum
`
`11· ·Institute, API, and every reg within API
`
`12· ·Monogram, which is the -- is the only
`
`13· ·accepted kind of design methodology that you
`
`14· ·need to use when you are designing drilling
`
`15· ·rigs.
`
`16· · · ·Q.· ·And what -- I am sorry to just
`
`17· ·interrupt you there.
`
`18· · · · · · What was the name of that last
`
`19· ·document?
`
`20· · · ·A.· ·API 4F.
`
`21· · · ·Q.· ·I heard API 4F, API 4G.
`
`22· · · ·A.· ·4G.· That's correct.
`
`23· · · ·Q.· ·Was there a third after that?
`
`24· · · ·A.· ·No.· Just API 4F and 4G.
`
`25· · · · · · 4G is about maintenance and
`
`C&M Oilfield Rentals Ex. 2012 - Page 10
`Ensign US Southern Drilling LLC v. C&M Oilfield Rentals LLC
`IPR2023-00804 - U.S. Patent No. 10,976,016
`
`
`
`·1· ·inspection criteria and requirements.
`
`·2· · · ·Q.· ·Now, you mentioned one of the
`
`·3· ·documents you brought with you was the
`
`·4· ·Gowanlock?
`
`·5· · · ·A.· ·That's correct.
`
`·6· · · ·Q.· ·And that was the first one that you
`
`·7· ·mentioned.
`
`·8· · · · · · Which Gowanlock reference was that?
`
`·9· · · ·A.· ·042348A1.· It is the one that is
`
`10· ·referenced in the C&M patent.· And I brought
`
`11· ·the Swivelpole catalog as well.
`
`12· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.
`
`13· · · ·A.· ·I also got a copy of C&M's response
`
`14· ·to the declaration, and I got a copy of the
`
`15· ·PTAB report.· I also have -- I also brought
`
`16· ·copies of previous applications from --
`
`17· ·patent applications from Gowanlock and
`
`18· ·Apollo.
`
`19· · · · · · Do you want me to name those for
`
`20· ·you?
`
`21· · · ·Q.· ·We'll get to those in a second.· So
`
`22· ·before we get too far down the list, I want to
`
`23· ·follow up on a couple of things.
`
`24· · · ·A.· ·Sure.
`
`25· · · ·Q.· ·When you say C&M's response to the
`
`C&M Oilfield Rentals Ex. 2012 - Page 11
`Ensign US Southern Drilling LLC v. C&M Oilfield Rentals LLC
`IPR2023-00804 - U.S. Patent No. 10,976,016
`
`
`
`·1· ·declaration, you are referring to C&M's
`
`·2· ·preliminary response in this proceeding?
`
`·3· · · ·A.· ·Patent owner's preliminary response
`
`·4· ·to petition for inter partes review of US
`
`·5· ·Patent No. 10,976,016.· That's correct.
`
`·6· · · ·Q.· ·And when you refer to the PTAB report,
`
`·7· ·are you referring to the institution decision
`
`·8· ·by the board?
`
`·9· · · ·A.· ·United States Patent and Trademark
`
`10· ·before the patent -- decision granting
`
`11· ·institution of inter partes --
`
`12· · · · · · · COURT REPORTER:· Wait.· Hold
`
`13· · · ·on.· You have to slow down.
`
`14· · · · · · · WITNESS:· I am sorry.
`
`15· · · ·Q.· ·(BY MS. FOWLER)· Start over.
`
`16· · · ·A.· ·Okay.· Yeah.
`
`17· · · · · · So I'm referring to the United
`
`18· ·States Patent and Trademark Office, and it's
`
`19· ·the decision granting institution of inter
`
`20· ·partes review.
`
`21· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.
`
`22· · · ·A.· ·And it's IPR 2023-00804.
`
`23· · · ·Q.· ·And that's the IPR proceeding for
`
`24· ·which you are testifying today, correct?
`
`25· · · ·A.· ·Yes.
`
`C&M Oilfield Rentals Ex. 2012 - Page 12
`Ensign US Southern Drilling LLC v. C&M Oilfield Rentals LLC
`IPR2023-00804 - U.S. Patent No. 10,976,016
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·Q.· ·Now, that first Gowanlock reference
`
`·2· ·that you mentioned ending in numbers 348 -- did
`
`·3· ·I get that correct in terms of the last three
`
`·4· ·numbers?
`
`·5· · · ·A.· ·That is correct.
`
`·6· · · ·Q.· ·Did you rely on that document in your
`
`·7· ·petition submitted in this action?
`
`·8· · · · · · · MR. PORTER:· Objection, form.
`
`·9· · · ·A.· ·Can you repeat the question, please?
`
`10· · · ·Q.· ·(BY MS. FOWLER)· Sure.
`
`11· · · · · · Did you rely on the '348 patent to
`
`12· ·Gowanlock that you are referencing in your
`
`13· ·declaration submitted in this action?
`
`14· · · ·A.· ·Can you please, like, clarify what
`
`15· ·you mean by "rely"?
`
`16· · · ·Q.· ·What is your understanding of the term
`
`17· ·"rely" in ordinary parlance?
`
`18· · · ·A.· ·Rely meaning did I use it as a
`
`19· ·reference?
`
`20· · · ·Q.· ·Well, let's start there.· Let's start
`
`21· ·there.
`
`22· · · ·A.· ·Yeah.
`
`23· · · ·Q.· ·Did you use the '348 patent to
`
`24· ·Gowanlock as a reference in your declaration
`
`25· ·submitted in this action?
`
`C&M Oilfield Rentals Ex. 2012 - Page 13
`Ensign US Southern Drilling LLC v. C&M Oilfield Rentals LLC
`IPR2023-00804 - U.S. Patent No. 10,976,016
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·A.· ·In my declaration, yes, I did.
`
`·2· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· And I think you mentioned
`
`·3· ·another Gowanlock patent.· Is that right?
`
`·4· · · ·A.· ·It was a -- his name was on it, and
`
`·5· ·Darcy Dupuis was on it, so I am going to say
`
`·6· ·it's a design patent.
`
`·7· · · ·Q.· ·Uh-huh.
`
`·8· · · ·A.· ·USD 757,343.· And this is the patent
`
`·9· ·or the figure that was referenced as prior
`
`10· ·art in the C&M patent.· I believe it's
`
`11· ·Figure 1.· Let me just double-check.
`
`12· · · · · · Yes, so it is Figure 1 in the C&M
`
`13· ·patent, and it is apparently referencing that
`
`14· ·patent.
`
`15· · · ·Q.· ·When you say "the C&M patent," you are
`
`16· ·referring to the '016 patent?
`
`17· · · ·A.· ·That is correct.· And for the
`
`18· ·record, just incorrectly, actually, shows the
`
`19· ·figure.
`
`20· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.
`
`21· · · ·A.· ·There's a big discrepancy.
`
`22· · · ·Q.· ·And so --
`
`23· · · ·A.· ·It's copied wrong.
`
`24· · · ·Q.· ·It's your opinion that Figure 1 from
`
`25· ·the '016 patent is an incorrect reproduction of
`
`C&M Oilfield Rentals Ex. 2012 - Page 14
`Ensign US Southern Drilling LLC v. C&M Oilfield Rentals LLC
`IPR2023-00804 - U.S. Patent No. 10,976,016
`
`
`
`·1· ·the figure from US design patent 757,343?
`
`·2· · · ·A.· ·That is correct.
`
`·3· · · ·Q.· ·But it's your opinion that it is
`
`·4· ·supposed to be a correct representation of the
`
`·5· ·figure from USD 757,343?
`
`·6· · · · · · · MR. PORTER:· Objection.
`
`·7· · · ·A.· ·I can't comment on the intent of why
`
`·8· ·it would have been drawn that way.· I don't
`
`·9· ·know the answer to that question.
`
`10· · · ·Q.· ·(BY MS. FOWLER)· And I understood
`
`11· ·your testimony earlier to be that the figure
`
`12· ·that is referenced as prior art in Figure 1
`
`13· ·of the '016 patent references or is supposed
`
`14· ·to reference the figure shown in USD 757,343.
`
`15· · · · · · Did I understand that correctly?
`
`16· · · ·A.· ·Yes.
`
`17· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· But you can't comment on the
`
`18· ·intent of C&M, the '016 patent, with respect to
`
`19· ·reproduction of the figure from the design
`
`20· ·patent, correct?
`
`21· · · ·A.· ·Yes, I cannot comment on why it
`
`22· ·doesn't -- it wasn't illustrated accurately.
`
`23· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· So how do you know that the
`
`24· ·intent then was to reproduce Figure 1 from the
`
`25· ·design patent?
`
`C&M Oilfield Rentals Ex. 2012 - Page 15
`Ensign US Southern Drilling LLC v. C&M Oilfield Rentals LLC
`IPR2023-00804 - U.S. Patent No. 10,976,016
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·A.· ·I believe it is referenced as prior.
`
`·2· ·So I asked that question to my lawyers, and I
`
`·3· ·believe it is referenced in the applications
`
`·4· ·or in the prosecution history or somewhere.
`
`·5· · · ·Q.· ·So your understanding that Figure 1 in
`
`·6· ·the '016 patent is supposed to be a
`
`·7· ·reproduction of the figure from the Gowanlock
`
`·8· ·design patent is based on conversations with
`
`·9· ·your attorney.· Is that correct?
`
`10· · · ·A.· ·That's correct.
`
`11· · · ·Q.· ·You don't have any independent
`
`12· ·knowledge regarding the attempt to reproduce
`
`13· ·from the design patent what is Figure 1 in the
`
`14· ·'016 patent, correct?
`
`15· · · ·A.· ·I don't recall, and I don't
`
`16· ·remember, but -- exactly where, but I'm --
`
`17· ·I'm sorry.· US Patent documents.· It is
`
`18· ·referenced here, yeah.
`
`19· · · ·Q.· ·And what do you mean by "it is
`
`20· ·referenced here"?
`
`21· · · ·A.· ·Under references cited in the '016
`
`22· ·patent.
`
`23· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· And because it is a reference
`
`24· ·cited in the '016 patent, it's your opinion
`
`25· ·that that indicates that the '016 patent
`
`C&M Oilfield Rentals Ex. 2012 - Page 16
`Ensign US Southern Drilling LLC v. C&M Oilfield Rentals LLC
`IPR2023-00804 - U.S. Patent No. 10,976,016
`
`
`
`·1· ·attempted -- attempted to reproduce from the
`
`·2· ·design patent the figure there?
`
`·3· · · ·A.· ·That is correct.
`
`·4· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Is there any other basis for
`
`·5· ·your understanding?
`
`·6· · · ·A.· ·There's nothing else in other
`
`·7· ·reference documentation that resembles that
`
`·8· ·same figure.
`
`·9· · · ·Q.· ·What's your understanding of why a
`
`10· ·reference is cited on the face of a patent?
`
`11· · · ·A.· ·Because it would have been mentioned
`
`12· ·in the patent.
`
`13· · · ·Q.· ·What do you mean by "mentioned in the
`
`14· ·patent"?
`
`15· · · ·A.· ·To make a case, whether if was for
`
`16· ·obviousness or whether it was to indicate
`
`17· ·what the problem was or the invention or to
`
`18· ·make the claims or -- you would reference
`
`19· ·prior -- prior art or prior -- prior patents
`
`20· ·or design patents.
`
`21· · · · · · And I'm not an expert on patent law
`
`22· ·by any means, so --
`
`23· · · ·Q.· ·Sure.· Sure.· And I'm only asking your
`
`24· ·understanding.
`
`25· · · ·A.· ·I'm a technical guy.· So if you want
`
`C&M Oilfield Rentals Ex. 2012 - Page 17
`Ensign US Southern Drilling LLC v. C&M Oilfield Rentals LLC
`IPR2023-00804 - U.S. Patent No. 10,976,016
`
`
`
`·1· ·to ask me what drilling rigs are, how they
`
`·2· ·work, how to drill a well, you know, I am all
`
`·3· ·for it.· How to design a rig, I am...
`
`·4· · · ·Q.· ·Sure.
`
`·5· · · ·A.· ·Yeah.
`
`·6· · · ·Q.· ·Sure.· And my question was limited to
`
`·7· ·your understanding.
`
`·8· · · ·A.· ·Okay.
`
`·9· · · ·Q.· ·I understand you are not an attorney.
`
`10· · · ·A.· ·Right.
`
`11· · · ·Q.· ·I don't want you to testify as to
`
`12· ·legal issues or anything of that nature.
`
`13· · · ·A.· ·Right.
`
`14· · · ·Q.· ·I just want to understand your
`
`15· ·understanding of that principle.· Okay?
`
`16· · · ·A.· ·Yeah, that's fair.
`
`17· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Any other reason that -- based
`
`18· ·on your understanding of the principles, that a
`
`19· ·patent would be cited on the face of a
`
`20· ·reference?
`
`21· · · ·A.· ·Not -- not that I can think of right
`
`22· ·now.
`
`23· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· So you understand that when a
`
`24· ·reference is cited on the face of a patent,
`
`25· ·that it was considered during prosecution of
`
`C&M Oilfield Rentals Ex. 2012 - Page 18
`Ensign US Southern Drilling LLC v. C&M Oilfield Rentals LLC
`IPR2023-00804 - U.S. Patent No. 10,976,016
`
`
`
`·1· ·that patent?
`
`·2· · · ·A.· ·That's what I would assume.
`
`·3· · · ·Q.· ·And when I say "consider during
`
`·4· ·prosecution," you understand me to mean
`
`·5· ·considered by the USPTO during prosecution?
`
`·6· · · ·A.· ·That's what I would assume.
`
`·7· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· And the '016 is an issued
`
`·8· ·patent, correct?
`
`·9· · · ·A.· ·That's correct.
`
`10· · · ·Q.· ·So the references that are cited on
`
`11· ·the face of the '016 patent were considered by
`
`12· ·the office, and the '016 patent was later
`
`13· ·issued, correct?
`
`14· · · ·A.· ·I believe that is the process.
`
`15· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· In your declaration submitted
`
`16· ·in this action, you did not rely on US design
`
`17· ·patent 757,343 as a reference for an
`
`18· ·obviousness combination, correct?
`
`19· · · ·A.· ·Could you repeat the question,
`
`20· ·please.
`
`21· · · ·Q.· ·In your declaration submitted in this
`
`22· ·action, you did not rely on US design patent
`
`23· ·757,343 as a reference for an obviousness
`
`24· ·combination, correct?
`
`25· · · ·A.· ·It's kind of a trick -- it's kind of
`
`C&M Oilfield Rentals Ex. 2012 - Page 19
`Ensign US Southern Drilling LLC v. C&M Oilfield Rentals LLC
`IPR2023-00804 - U.S. Patent No. 10,976,016
`
`
`
`·1· ·a weird question because the Figure 1 that is
`
`·2· ·in the '016 patent that should have
`
`·3· ·represented the '343 patent kind of
`
`·4· ·indirectly links it through the '016 patent.
`
`·5· · · · · · Does that make -- is that the one?
`
`·6· ·Does that make sense?
`
`·7· · · ·Q.· ·Can you please identify me -- for me
`
`·8· ·in your declaration where you cite, if at all,
`
`·9· ·US design patent 757,343?
`
`10· · · ·A.· ·On page 42, Figure 1, it doesn't
`
`11· ·specifically cite that patent number, but it
`
`12· ·references the figure that comes from the
`
`13· ·'016 patent that should have been replicated
`
`14· ·from the '343 patent.
`
`15· · · ·Q.· ·You keep saying should have been
`
`16· ·replicated --
`
`17· · · ·A.· ·Yes.
`
`18· · · ·Q.· ·-- from the design patent.
`
`19· · · ·A.· ·Right.
`
`20· · · ·Q.· ·Explain for me again what you mean by
`
`21· ·that.
`
`22· · · ·A.· ·What I mean by that, it doesn't --
`
`23· ·it reference it; it looks like it, but it's
`
`24· ·not exactly like it.· There's some
`
`25· ·differences.
`
`C&M Oilfield Rentals Ex. 2012 - Page 20
`Ensign US Southern Drilling LLC v. C&M Oilfield Rentals LLC
`IPR2023-00804 - U.S. Patent No. 10,976,016
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·Q.· ·And so why -- why does that form your
`
`·2· ·belief that Figure 1 should have been
`
`·3· ·replicated from the design patent?
`
`·4· · · ·A.· ·Because it's referenced, and there's
`
`·5· ·nothing else in other -- the other patents
`
`·6· ·that resemble this figure.
`
`·7· · · ·Q.· ·And you have no other basis for you
`
`·8· ·picking them, correct?
`
`·9· · · ·A.· ·Pretty darn close if you look at the
`
`10· ·visual.
`
`11· · · ·Q.· ·Sure.· Do you have any other basis for
`
`12· ·your opinion, Mr. Hamdan?
`
`13· · · ·A.· ·That it's referenced, that -- and
`
`14· ·based on what the attorneys instructed me
`
`15· ·that it was, in fact, from there --
`
`16· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· So you're --
`
`17· · · ·A.· ·So I was under, based on that
`
`18· ·instruction, that -- that it was from there.
`
`19· · · ·Q.· ·So your opinion that Figure 1 from the
`
`20· ·'016 patent was intended to reproduce the
`
`21· ·figures from the US design patent 757,343 was
`
`22· ·based on the instruction of and representation
`
`23· ·of your attorneys.· Is that correct?
`
`24· · · · · · · MR. PORTER:· Objection, form.
`
`25· · · ·A.· ·No, I asked the question when I seen
`
`C&M Oilfield Rentals Ex. 2012 - Page 21
`Ensign US Southern Drilling LLC v. C&M Oilfield Rentals LLC
`IPR2023-00804 - U.S. Patent No. 10,976,016
`
`
`
`·1· ·the reference on the '016 patent, and it was
`
`·2· ·also reiterated to me that I'm correct.
`
`·3· · · ·Q.· ·(BY MS. FOWLER)· And when you say
`
`·4· ·that you asked the question, do you mean you
`
`·5· ·asked the question of your attorney.· Is that
`
`·6· ·correct?
`
`·7· · · ·A.· ·I asked why this -- I was
`
`·8· ·questioning why they don't match.
`
`·9· · · ·Q.· ·Uh-huh.
`
`10· · · ·A.· ·The figures.
`
`11· · · ·Q.· ·And why were you assuming that they
`
`12· ·should match?
`
`13· · · ·A.· ·Because it's reference inside the
`
`14· ·'016 patent that it was -- Figure 1 was from
`
`15· ·prior art -- it's using it as a prior art --
`
`16· · · ·Q.· ·Uh-huh.
`
`17· · · ·A.· ·-- and it's using all the reference.
`
`18· ·And that's the only prior art that resembles
`
`19· ·it.
`
`20· · · ·Q.· ·And so you asked that of your
`
`21· ·attorneys for confirmation.· Is that correct?
`
`22· · · ·A.· ·Confirmation and why -- and pointed
`
`23· ·out the differences.
`
`24· · · ·Q.· ·Pointed out the differences, you did,
`
`25· ·or your attorneys did?
`
`C&M Oilfield Rentals Ex. 2012 - Page 22
`Ensign US Southern Drilling LLC v. C&M Oilfield Rentals LLC
`IPR2023-00804 - U.S. Patent No. 10,976,016
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·A.· ·I pointed out the difference in the
`
`·2· ·figures --
`
`·3· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.
`
`·4· · · ·A.· ·-- and the pictures.
`
`·5· · · ·Q.· ·So you asked your attorneys to confirm
`
`·6· ·your understanding that Figure 1 from the '016
`
`·7· ·patent was intend to be a reproduction of the
`
`·8· ·figure from US design patent 757,343?
`
`·9· · · ·A.· ·I don't recall if it was -- the word
`
`10· ·"intended" was used.
`
`11· · · ·Q.· ·Well, what word was used, Mr. Hamdan?
`
`12· · · ·A.· ·I don't recall the word.· But my
`
`13· ·understanding was that it was -- it was
`
`14· ·from -- it was -- it was supposed to or --
`
`15· ·maybe the word "intended" is the right
`
`16· ·word -- that it should have been from -- it
`
`17· ·should have been -- it should have been
`
`18· ·referencing the same figure that was in '343.
`
`19· · · ·Q.· ·Uh-huh.· And the basis of your opinion
`
`20· ·that Figure 1 of the '016 patent, to use your
`
`21· ·words, should have been referencing the figures
`
`22· ·from US design patent 757,343 was based on your
`
`23· ·comparison of the two figures and your
`
`24· ·conversations with your counsel.· Is that
`
`25· ·correct?
`
`C&M Oilfield Rentals Ex. 2012 - Page 23
`Ensign US Southern Drilling LLC v. C&M Oilfield Rentals LLC
`IPR2023-00804 - U.S. Patent No. 10,976,016
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·A.· ·Well, it -- it's a fact that it's
`
`·2· ·referenced in the patent.· It's not a -- it's
`
`·3· ·a matter of it should have.
`
`·4· · · ·Q.· ·Mr. Hamdan, my question's a little bit
`
`·5· ·different from that.
`
`·6· · · ·A.· ·Yeah.
`
`·7· · · ·Q.· ·The basis for your opinion that
`
`·8· ·Figure 1 of the '016 patent should have
`
`·9· ·referred to the figure from US design patent
`
`10· ·757,343 was based on your comparison of the two
`
`11· ·figures, that is Figure 1 and the figure in the
`
`12· ·design patent, as well as your conversations
`
`13· ·with your attorney.· Is that correct?
`
`14· · · ·A.· ·In my conversations with my
`
`15· ·attorney, I was told that it was referencing
`
`16· ·that figure in that patent.
`
`17· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Do you have any other basis for
`
`18· ·your understanding that Figure 1 in the '016
`
`19· ·patent was referencing the figures from US
`
`20· ·design patent 757,343?
`
`21· · · ·A.· ·Other than what I mentioned earlier?
`
`22· · · ·Q.· ·I am asking you right now for the
`
`23· ·complete basis of your understanding.
`
`24· · · · · · Is there anything else besides your
`
`25· ·comparison of the figures and your
`
`C&M Oilfield Rentals Ex. 2012 - Page 24
`Ensign US Southern Drilling LLC v. C&M Oilfield Rentals LLC
`IPR2023-00804 - U.S. Patent No. 10,976,016
`
`
`
`·1· ·conversations with your attorneys?
`
`·2· · · ·A.· ·And the reference on the patent.
`
`·3· · · ·Q.· ·And what do you mean by "the reference
`
`·4· ·on the patent"?
`
`·5· · · ·A.· ·That it points to it as a reference.
`
`·6· · · ·Q.· ·And when you say "points to it as a
`
`·7· ·reference," you mean listed as a reference --
`
`·8· · · ·A.· ·It's listed as a reference.
`
`·9· · · ·Q.· ·-- correct?
`
`10· · · ·A.· ·That is correct.· That is correct.
`
`11· · · ·Q.· ·So aside from the fact that the
`
`12· ·Gowanlock design patent -- which I will use as
`
`13· ·shorthand for US design patent 757,343.· Is
`
`14· ·that okay, before I continue?
`
`15· · · ·A.· ·Yes.
`
`16· · · ·Q.· ·The Gowanlock design patent.
`
`17· · · ·A.· ·Uh-huh.
`
`18· · · ·Q.· ·Aside from your conversations with
`
`19· ·your attorney, a comparison between Figure 1 in
`
`20· ·the '016 patent, and the figures in the
`
`21· ·Gowanlock design patent and the fact that the
`
`22· ·Gowanlock design patent is listed as a
`
`23· ·reference considered during prosecution, is
`
`24· ·there any other basis for your opinion that
`
`25· ·Figure 1 from the '016 patent was intended to
`
`C&M Oilfield Rentals Ex. 2012 - Page 25
`Ensign US Southern Drilling LLC v. C&M Oilfield Rentals LLC
`IPR2023-00804 - U.S. Patent No. 10,976,016
`
`
`
`·1· ·or should have reproduced the figures from the
`
`·2· ·Gowanlock design patent?
`
`·3· · · · · · · MR. PORTER:· Objection, form.
`
`·4· · · ·A.· ·I can't comment on what the patent
`
`·5· ·owner was intending and their intentions.
`
`·6· · · ·Q.· ·(BY MS. FOWLER)· Okay.
`
`·7· · · ·A.· ·If that's what your question is.
`
`·8· · · ·Q.· ·Right.· You can't comment on that,
`
`·9· ·correct?
`
`10· · · ·A.· ·I don't know.· I don't know the
`
`11· ·answer to that.
`
`12· · · ·Q.· ·Please point to me specifically in
`
`13· ·your declaration where you cite US design
`
`14· ·patent 757,343.
`
`15· · · ·A.· ·Like I said earlier, the Figure 1
`
`16· ·indirectly points to '343.
`
`17· · · ·Q.· ·My question is a little bit different,
`
`18· ·Mr. Hamdan.
`
`19· · · ·A.· ·Yeah.
`
`20· · · ·Q.· ·Please identify for me in the
`
`21· ·declaration where you cite US design patent
`
`22· ·757,343?
`
`23· · · ·A.· ·You want me to read through it to
`
`24· ·see if it's been cited?· I can't recall if
`
`25· ·it's been cited.
`
`C&M Oilfield Rentals Ex. 2012 - Page 26
`Ensign US Southern Drilling LLC v. C&M Oilfield Rentals LLC
`IPR2023-00804 - U.S. Patent No. 10,976,016
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·Q.· ·Sure.· We can sit here while you do
`
`·2· ·that.
`
`·3· · · · · · Mr. Hamdan, I see that you're not
`
`·4· ·referencing your petition right now in response
`
`·5· ·to my question --
`
`·6· · · ·A.· ·Yes, I am.· I was just confirming
`
`·7· ·the number that was on my -- with -- just to
`
`·8· ·get familiar with --
`
`·9· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Great.· So just to confirm for
`
`10· ·the record right now, you are looking to see if
`
`11· ·you specifically referenced US design patent
`
`12· ·757,343 in your declaration submitted in this
`
`13· ·action, correct?
`
`14· · · ·A.· ·That is correct.
`
`15· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.
`
`16· · · ·A.· ·I do not -- I did not directly
`
`17· ·reference '343 in my declaration.
`
`18· · · ·Q.· ·In your declaration submitted in this
`
`19· ·case, you did not specifically cite to US
`
`20· ·design patent 757,343, correct?
`
`21· · · ·A.· ·That's correct.
`
`22· · · ·Q.· ·You also mentioned, I think, earlier
`
`23· ·in the list of documents that you brought with
`
`24· ·you today, API 4F and 4G.· Is that correct?
`
`25· · · ·A.· ·That's correct.
`
`C&M Oilfield Rentals Ex. 2012 - Page 27
`Ensign US Southern Drilling LLC v. C&M Oilfield Rentals LLC
`IPR2023-00804 - U.S. Patent No. 10,976,016
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·Q.· ·Did you cite API 4F or 4G anywhere in
`
`·2· ·your declaration submitted in this action?
`
`·3· · · ·A.· ·No.
`
`·4· · · ·Q.· ·And to avoid a potential double
`
`·5· ·negative there, it is correct that you did not
`
`·6· ·cite API 4F and 4G in your declaration,
`
`·7· ·correct?
`
`·8· · · ·A.· ·Well, my -- my professional
`
`·9· ·experience is based on my knowledge of API 4F
`
`10· ·and 4G.
`
`11· · · ·Q.· ·Mr. Hamdan, can you point to me
`
`12· ·anywhere in your declaration submitted in this
`
`13· ·case that you cited API 4F or 4G?
`
`14· · · ·A.· ·In my r sum .· On my CV.
`
`15· · · ·Q.· ·In your declaration submitted in this
`
`16· ·case that contains your opinions regarding the
`
`17· ·'016 patent, did you cite anywhere API 4F or
`
`18· ·4G?
`
`19· · · ·A.· ·Specifically?· Like, is it typed in
`
`20· ·my declaration, API 4F or API 4G?
`
`21· · · ·Q.· ·I'll restate the question.
`
`22· · · · · · In your declaration submitted in this
`
`23· ·case --
`
`24· · · ·A.· ·Right.
`
`25· · · ·Q.· ·-- that contains your opinions
`
`C&M Oilfield Rentals Ex. 2012 - Page 28
`Ensign US Southern Drilling LLC v. C&M Oilfield Rentals LLC
`IPR2023-00804 - U.S. Patent No. 10,976,016
`
`
`
`·1· ·regarding the '016 patent, did you cite API 4F
`
`·2· ·or 4G?
`
`·3· · · ·A.· ·Well, it's implied I know API 4F and
`
`·4· ·4G because of my CV that's mentioned.
`
`·5· · · ·Q.· ·Mr. Hamdan, my question is little bit
`
`·6· ·different, so let me try again.
`
`·7· · · · · · In your declaration submitted in this
`
`·8· ·case that contains your opinions regarding the
`
`·9· ·'016 patent, did you cite API 4F or 4G?
`
`10· · · ·A.· ·No, I didn't.
`
`11· · · ·Q.· ·You also mentioned that you have with
`
`12· ·you a certified -- strike that.
`
`13· · · · · · You mentioned that you also have with
`
`14· ·you a certified translation of the Chinese '413
`
`15· ·patent and a machine translation of the Chinese
`
`16· ·'413 patent.· Is that correct?
`
`17· · · ·A.· ·That is correct.
`
`18· · · ·Q.· ·On which of those, the certified
`
`19·
Accessing this document will incur an additional charge of $.
After purchase, you can access this document again without charge.
Accept $ Charge
Still Working On It
This document is taking longer than usual to download. This can happen if we need to contact the court directly to obtain the document and their servers are running slowly.
Give it another minute or two to complete, and then try the refresh button.
A few More Minutes ... Still Working
It can take up to 5 minutes for us to download a document if the court servers are running slowly.
Thank you for your continued patience.
This document could not be displayed.
We could not find this document within its docket. Please go back to the docket page and check the link. If that does not work, go back to the docket and refresh it to pull the newest information.
Your account does not support viewing this document.
You need a Paid Account to view this document. Click here to change your account type.
Your account does not support viewing this document.
Set your membership
status to view this document.
With a Docket Alarm membership, you'll
get a whole lot more, including:
- Up-to-date information for this case.
- Email alerts whenever there is an update.
- Full text search for other cases.
- Get email alerts whenever a new case matches your search.
One Moment Please
The filing “” is large (MB) and is being downloaded.
Please refresh this page in a few minutes to see if the filing has been downloaded. The filing will also be emailed to you when the download completes.
Your document is on its way!
If you do not receive the document in five minutes, contact support at support@docketalarm.com.
Sealed Document
We are unable to display this document, it may be under a court ordered seal.
If you have proper credentials to access the file, you may proceed directly to the court's system using your government issued username and password.
Access Government Site
