Transcript of Joseph Paradiso,
`Ph.D.
`
`Date: December 17, 2020
`Case: Fitbit, Inc. -v- Philips North America
`
`Planet Depos
`Phone: 888.433.3767
`Email:: transcripts@planetdepos.com
`www.planetdepos.com
`
`WORLDWIDE COURT REPORTING & LITIGATION TECHNOLOGY
`
`IPR2020-00783
`Philips North America LLC EX2030
`
`

`

`Transcript of Joseph Paradiso, Ph.D.
`Conducted on December 17, 2020
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` A P P E A R A N C E S
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`ON BEHALF OF THE PETITIONER:
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` DAVID OKANO, ESQUIRE
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` BERKELEY FIFE, ESQUIRE
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` PAUL HASTINGS LLP
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` 1117 South California Avenue
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` Palo Alto, California 94304
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` 650.320.1855
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` JOSEPHY PALYS, ESQUIRE
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` PAUL HASTINGS LLP
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` 2050 M Street NW
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` Washington, D.C. 20036
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` 202.551.1996
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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
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` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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`- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - x
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`FITBIT, INC.,
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`:
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` Petitioner,
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` : Case No.
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` v.
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` : IPR2020-00783
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`PHILIPS NORTH AMERICA LLC,
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` Patent Owner.
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` :
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` :
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`- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - x
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` Deposition of JOSEPH A. PARADISO, Ph.D.
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` Conducted Virtually
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` Thursday, December 17, 2020
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` 7:07 a.m. PST
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`Job No.: 340111
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`Pages: 1 - 130
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`Reported By: Rhonda Norberg, CSR No. 9265, CCRR No. 185
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` A P P E A R A N C E S C O N T I N U E D
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`ON BEHALF OF THE PATENT OWNER:
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` RUBEN J. RODRIGUES, ESQUIRE
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` FOLEY & LARDNER LLP
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` 111 Huntington Avenue
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` Suite 2500
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` Boston, Massachusetts 02199
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` 617.502.3228
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` GEORGE C. BECK, ESQUIRE
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` FOLEY & LARDNER LLP
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` Washington Harbour 3000 K Street, N.W.
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` Suite 600
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` Washington, D.C. 20007
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` 202.945.6014
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`ALSO PRESENT:
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` MICHAEL PIETANZA, VIDEOCONFERENCE TECH
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` Deposition of JOSEPH A. PARADISO, Ph.D., conducted
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`virtually.
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` Pursuant to notice, before Rhonda Norberg,
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` Certified Shorthand Reporter No. 9265, CCRR No. 185
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` in and for the State of California.
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`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`IPR2020-00783
`Philips North America LLC EX2030
`
`

`

`Transcript of Joseph Paradiso, Ph.D.
`Conducted on December 17, 2020
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` So you've been deposed in the past, correct?
` A Yes, I have.
` Q What were the circumstances that led to your
`past depositions?
` A Mainly various IP cases, expert testimony.
` Q Got it.
` Any depositions that you've given that did not
`relate to IP cases?
` A Not that I remember.
` Q Is there a certain technology area that these
`IP cases all related to?
` A Wireless sensors, wearable technologies,
`low-power systems, things of that sort.
` Q And when you say "wearable technologies," what
`do you mean by that?
` A Various kinds of wearable systems, wearable
`sensors, wearable wiring sensors. My group did a lot of
`very early work in -- in wearable wireless sensing, so
`lots of -- lots of application domains that have sparked
`from that.
` Q Have you ever testified at trial?
` A Yes, I have.
` Q How -- how many times?
` A Twice if you don't count a divorce trial, which
`I don't think we -- we're talking about here. I've
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` I N D E X
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`WITNESS: JOSEPH A. PARADISO, Ph.D.
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`EXAMINATION
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` By Mr. Rodrigues
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` By Mr. Rodrigues (Continued)
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` By Mr. Okano
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` By Mr. Rodrigues (Further)
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` PAGE
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` EXHIBITS
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`EXHIBIT NO.
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` DESCRIPTION
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` PAGE
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`1003
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`1002
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`1001
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`1005
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` Curriculum Vitae
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` Declaration
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` '233 Patent
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` U.S. Patent No. 6,198,394
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` PREVIOUSLY MARKED EXHIBITS
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`EXHIBIT NO.
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` DESCRIPTION
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`1006
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` U.S. Patent No. 6,175,752
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` PAGE
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`testified at the ITC twice.
` Q Have you ever testified in district court?
` A No, I haven't.
` Q And what were the two matters in which you
`testified before the ITC?
` A One was Fitbit versus Jawbone or Jawbone versus
`Fitbit. I'm not sure how it works there. The other is
`in another arm of this case. It was a patent tried at
`the ITC.
` Q Both those times, was the testimony you
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`provided on behalf of Fitbit?
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` A Yes, it was.
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` Q Do you know roughly how many matters you've
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`been retained by Fitbit for?
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` A Oh, I'd have to look. Maybe order of five,
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`six, but I -- I don't recall.
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` Q Besides the IP cases that you have mentioned
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`you worked as an expert for and the divorce proceeding
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`which you mentioned, which we don't have to get into,
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`have you been involved in any other side of legal -- any
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`other sort of legal proceeding?
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` A No formal legal proceeding that I can remember,
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`no.
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` Q Well, it sounds like you're familiar with the
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`deposition process, including even, perhaps, being
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`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
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` P R O C E E D I N G S
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`Whereupon,
` JOSEPH A. PARADISO, Ph.D.,
` being first duly sworn or affirmed to testify to
` the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
` truth, was examined and testified as follows:
`
` EXAMINATION
`BY MR. RODRIGUES:
` Q Good morning, Dr. Paradiso.
` A Good morning.
` Q Could you please state your full name?
` A Joseph A. Paradiso.
` Q And where do you live? It doesn't need to be a
`specific address. City and state is fine.
` A I live in Medford, Massachusetts.
` Q And have you ever been deposed before?
` A Yes, I have.
` Q About how many times?
` A Order of a dozen.
` Q And what were the circumstances that led you to
`be deposed previously?
` A What do you mean by "previously"?
` Q Sure.
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`IPR2020-00783
`Philips North America LLC EX2030
`
`

`

`Transcript of Joseph Paradiso, Ph.D.
`Conducted on December 17, 2020
`9
`deposed via Zoom, which not everyone has had the fond
`experience of; but I'm going to, nonetheless, go through
`some of the -- the ground rules and expectations for --
`for today.
` So I'll ask the questions and I'll expect the
`answers; and unless your counsel specifically instructs
`you not to answer the question, then I would expect an
`answer to the question.
` Does that make sense?
` A It does.
` Q The court reporter is transcribing everything
`we say; and so as she said in the beginning, we should
`try not to talk over each other. But also we need to
`answer verbally, not do nods or gestures and things of
`that sort.
` Does that make sense?
` A It does make sense.
` Q If you don't understand a question I ask, could
`you please ask me to clarify? Otherwise, I'll assume
`you understood the question.
` A Yes, I'll -- I'll ask you too clarify in that
`case.
` Q We can take breaks periodically. Usually we do
`an hour or an hour and 15, hour and a half, depending
`on, you know, what your preference is. I have no
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`reveal the substance of any work-product-protected
`information. He can answer as to facts.
` THE WITNESS: I reviewed my declaration and the
`materials the declaration cites.
`BY MR. RODRIGUES:
` Q Did you review anything outside your
`declaration or what your declaration cites?
` MR. OKANO: I give the witness the same
`caution.
` THE WITNESS: In -- in preparing for this
`deposition, that's the material that I reviewed.
`BY MR. RODRIGUES:
` Q Okay. And without revealing the substance of
`any communications with attorneys, did you speak to
`anyone in preparation for your deposition?
` A Yes, I have.
` Q And -- and who did you speak with?
` A I spoke with the attorneys on the call here.
` Q And that would be Mr. Okano and Mr. Palys and
`Ms. Fife?
` A Yes.
` Q How long did you spend discussing your
`preparation with those attorneys?
` A Oh, a few afternoons, maybe.
` Q Across how many days?
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`3 (9 to 12)
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` A Three, order of three.
`preference on my end.
` Q And how many hours, roughly, on each day?
` The only thing I would ask is that we -- if
` A It would vary. Anywhere from three to six or
`there's a question pending, we -- you answer the
`seven.
`question before we take a break.
` A Yes.
` Q Where are you currently employed?
` A I'm at MIT.
` Q If you remember something additional later on
` Q And what do you do at MIT?
`in the deposition that maybe affects one of your prior
` A I'm a professor there.
`answers, or if you think you need to correct something,
` Q Professor of what?
`please let me know, just raise it even if I don't ask
` A I'm a professor of media arts and sciences,
`you specifically.
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`which is the title we use at the MIT media lab.
` Would you agree to do that today if there's
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` Q I guess what is the MIT media lab?
`something that comes up later that relates to something
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` A The MIT media lab is a -- a laboratory at MIT.
`we've previously discussed?
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`It was set up around 1985, originally to focus on
` A Yes, I do.
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`convergence, convergence of computers, print media,
` Q Is there anything that would affect your
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`audio, motion picture, music, everything, and -- and
`ability to testify truthfully and honestly and
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`then evolved quickly.
`completely here today?
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` We've always been a future-looking institute.
` A No, there's not.
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`We were very involved in the beginning ubiquitous
` Q Are you feeling sick at all today?
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`computing Internet of things. A lot of my work has been
` A No.
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`very involved there. We were pioneers of wearable
` A little tired, but I feel good.
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`computing. We're looking at the future of everywhere
` Q Okay. What did you do to prepare for today's
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`augmented reality, all -- all kinds of things that will
`deposition?
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`really change the world.
` A I reviewed --
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` Q And when you say you're a professor of media
` MR. OKANO: I just caution the witness not to
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`PLANET DEPOS
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`IPR2020-00783
`Philips North America LLC EX2030
`
`

`

`Transcript of Joseph Paradiso, Ph.D.
`Conducted on December 17, 2020
`13
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`screen as well.
` And can folks see my screen.
` THE WITNESS: Yep.
` MR. RODRIGUES: And I'm just going to scroll
`through here quickly.
` Q Does what's been marked as Exhibit 1 look to be
`the copy of the -- of your C.V. that was included with
`your declaration in this case?
` A Yes.
` MR. OKANO: And, Ruben, this is -- I guess I'm
`not so concerned with this exhibit, but for subsequent
`exhibits, can you provide control to Dr. Paradiso so
`that he can be -- you know, he's able to scroll through
`the entire document himself to make sure it is
`consistent with what he submitted with his -- his
`declaration?
` MR. RODRIGUES: Sure.
` That -- that's why I shared it in the chat, if
`you'd like to -- to pull it.
` Would you prefer that I give control of the
`screen?
` MR. OKANO: Okay. That's -- that's fine.
` Dr. Paradiso, would you prefer to look at your
`own copy downloaded or have -- like just keep your paper
`copies in front of you and have control of the screen?
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`arts and sciences, what are media arts and sciences?
` A That's a term that we identified, made up at
`the media lab. And the media lab is a very
`interdisciplinary institute, so to do what we do, we
`bring people together with disciplines in various
`fields, such as I am, among other things, an electrical
`engineer as well as physicist.
` We have people that come from biology now, we
`have people that come from the arts, from music, we have
`people that -- that -- that come from lots of different
`disciplines. And in the beginning, we were looking at
`the convergence of media, which is how we inherited that
`name.
` The arts side tends to look at content, which
`is very much a part of that, still a part of a lot of
`what we do, but also the sciences, which is the
`technology, which we're extremely agile at and very
`capable about. So we combined both.
` Q And how long have you been at the media lab?
` A I was a visitor there in 1993 and I joined in
`1994.
` Q Have you had different roles at the media lab
`since then?
` A Yes, I have.
` Q And what are some of those roles?
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` A My C.V. details all of them. I started, again,
`as a visitor; then I became a research scientist, I
`believe; then became a principal research scientist that
`formed a group, decided to form a group; and then I
`became an associate professor; and then full professor;
`and now I'm also associate department head.
` Q I'm going to bring up your C.V. as an exhibit
`here. I'm going to share the exhibit in the chat so
`that you have a copy to go through.
` A I have it here.
` Q Okay. You can --
` A Counsel provided all of the documents.
` Q I'm going to share this anyway just so that
`everyone has a copy or that we can reference the same
`document. You can feel free to look at whatever you --
`you have handy.
` A Thank you.
` Q This is also how I'm going to provide the
`exhibits to the court reporter and Planet Depos?
` A Sure.
` (Exhibit No. 1003 was marked for
` identification by the court
` reporter; attached hereto.)
` MR. RODRIGUES: So I've shared what I've marked
`as Exhibit 1 in the chat, and I'll bring this up on my
`
` THE WITNESS: At this point, I think the paper
`copies could -- would be good, and in some cases, I
`might want to jump onto the electronic copy.
` But yeah, in that case, I'd want to be able to
`scroll it. It could be on the screen, it could be just
`something I open up in Acrobat or -- or whatever.
` MR. OKANO: Okay. So -- so when counsel for --
`for Philips, Mr. Rodrigues, shares a document, make sure
`you download it in the chat.
` Do you -- have you -- can you see the -- can
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`you see the document in the chat window?
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` THE WITNESS: I saw it. The chat went away.
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` Here it is. Let me download it.
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` MR. OKANO: Okay. Yeah, make sure you download
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`that. That way you can have the -- the exhibit that
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`will go into the record, so I -- I -- in this -- for
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`this deposition, so that -- that ensures you are looking
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`at what is going to be attached to the deposition
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`itself.
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` THE WITNESS: Okay. It's downloading.
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` MR. OKANO: And -- and, Ruben, can we agree
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`for -- since Dr. Paradiso's C.V. has already been marked
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`as Exhibit 103 [sic] in this case, that we keep the
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`exhibit numbering just to lessen the confusion? It's
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`already Exhibit 103 in this trial, and so giving it an
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`IPR2020-00783
`Philips North America LLC EX2030
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`

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`Transcript of Joseph Paradiso, Ph.D.
`Conducted on December 17, 2020
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`additional label will be confusing.
` MR. RODRIGUES: Yeah. Let's clarify for the
`record.
` I need to stop sharing to get to the chat.
` Let's -- I guess let's clarify for the record
`that we can use the exhibit numbers of the file names.
`I should be using documents that all have the same
`exhibit number. I may also refer to some papers, but we
`can --
` MR. OKANO: And we can agree to refer to
`those -- those papers as the -- whatever paper number
`they appear in the record in this case.
` I just want to be -- I don't want to have two
`different exhibit numbers for something that the Board
`is going to recognize as exhibit, you know, in this
`case, 1003.
` MR. RODRIGUES: Yeah. Understood.
` So we'll treat this exhibit which I previously
`referred to as Exhibit 1 -- we'll treat it as
`Exhibit 1003.
` THE VIDEOCONFERENCE TECHNICIAN: And, Counsel,
`that's exactly how I will affix the digital exhibit
`sticker to the document. I will just put Exhibit 1003
`and go on from there. I will refer to the document
`title. If at any point you would like me to name it
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`now potentially issued. I'd have to look. So the --
`the standard development has happened.
` Q Those more recent papers and talks, do they
`relate to a certain subject area?
` A They relate to several subject areas.
` My group is -- is -- is involved in many eTech
`styles; wearables, certainly, is always a part of what I
`do. Internet of things is a very strong theme in a lot
`of papers that we do. We've started applying some of
`these fields now to space systems because, you know, we
`have a new space age.
` I used to do spacecraft control at one point
`when I was at Draper Lab; and, you know, doing some of
`the things that we did now on earth in space is just
`intriguing to us, so we have an active group doing that
`as well.
` So -- but they're all involving, for the most
`part, sensing and wireless sensing. That is a theme
`that is in a good part of the work that we do. We do a
`lot of work in indoor sensing as well as outdoor
`environmental sensing and coupling that with wearables
`too, so there is a -- a bit of stuff that's happening
`there.
` Q Is there some standard form that you use to
`generate your C.V.?
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` A MIT has a -- a standard format that depends on
`something else, just let me know and I can accommodate.
`the department. This is the media labs and School of
` MR. RODRIGUES: All right.
`Architecture and Planning - this is the format that we
` Are we -- David, are we good with the
`use, although there's a lot of freedom within that --
`housekeeping?
`that format.
` MR. OKANO: Certainly. I mean, if -- if
` We don't have anything like a -- like a
`there's a -- obviously, for any Philips exhibits, we'll
`template where I can just punch in papers and have it
`keep their 2000, whatever, 2001 sequence.
`update automatically. Unfortunately, that does no
`BY MR. RODRIGUES:
`exist, from what I can see. We all do it ourselves.
` Q All right. Now, Mr. Paradiso, have you had a
` Q So I notice that Item Number 2 in your C.V.
`chance to familiarize yourself with this document that
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`here says "Citizenship, U.S.A.," and then below, it says
`is Exhibit 1003?
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` A I -- it -- it looks -- I would have to go
`"Immigration Status, Not Applicable."
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`through the entire thing to see, but it looks like
` Is that here because of the standard form or
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`the -- the C.V. that I submitted with this IPR, yes.
`did you feel like it was important to convey that
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`information?
` Q Since submitting your C.V. in this IPR, have
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` A I -- I started with the standard form. This is
`there been any material changes to your C.V.?
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`many years ago, of course. I started with the form that
` A Yes, there have.
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`architecture and planning had at the time, and they had
` Q What are some of those?
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`that -- they had that -- that element there.
` A We've published many more papers. I've given
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`many more talks, although fewer now in the days of
` Q Now, why did you start with a form that
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`COVID, but I do give remote talks. I have more students
`architecture and planning had?
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` A Because the C.V. is used for promotion cases at
`that have finished, although I still have to update
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`the media lab or at MIT, it's used in your academic
`those. That -- that part needs more work.
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`department. They like to have a C.V.; and certainly
` But the main -- and I've had -- been on more
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`when you come up for promotion, the C.V. is a large part
`committees. There have been patents that have been are
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`6 (21 to 24)
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`Transcript of Joseph Paradiso, Ph.D.
`Conducted on December 17, 2020
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`of that. So I started with the department form,
`naturally, because I was in the department.
` Q You were in the Department of Architecture and
`Planning?
` A The media lab is housed -- we're an independent
`program, so we are our own academic program. Media arts
`and sciences -- sorry -- is within the Department of
`Architecture and Planning.
` It's historical because Nicholas Negroponte,
`the first founder, was coming out of the Department of
`Architecture and we could actually build easily in a
`disciplinary environment within architecture as opposed
`to engineering, which had established disciplines and
`couldn't collaborate as, necessarily, easily as you
`could do outside.
` So historically, we've been there.
` Q Got it.
` A But we're our own research program at the media
`lab and we're our own academic program in media arts and
`sciences. Just if you look at where we plug it, it
`plugs into architecture and planning.
` Q So you're in -- you're in the MIT media lab,
`which has its own independent programs, but you fall
`within the Department of Architecture and Planning; is
`that correct?
`
`more?
` A Oh, there could be more, but we still do that.
`Human computer interaction, we're publishing in
`constantly. We're very active in that community,
`ubiquitous computing. Now we call it Internet of
`things. I'm very active in that community.
` We have still more projects going on at
`energy -- with energy management in the built
`environment. We've actually incorporated wearables.
`We're even having environments change what they do in
`response to YDA'ing (phonetic) and even projection and
`images and things like that that are projected on large
`displays according to how you react with affective
`wearables, wearables this century, potential state,
`refocused state.
` Essential networks are kind of an underbelly of
`a lot of what we do. We use them all the time.
` Q What are some of the wearables that you've
`personally worked on during your time at the MIT media
`lab?
` A Oh, I've worked on many wearables. It started
`probably with -- yeah, I do.
` It started with my shoe in 1997. It was a
`wireless sensor for -- for dancers so that -- we were
`working at that point with interactive music quite a
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` A That's true.
` And it's also true for Roz Picard, one of the
`pioneers of wearable computing; Sandy Pentland, pioneer
`of face recognition; and -- and at this point, social
`networks and network analysis; Vidal Afib (phonetic)
`who, is doing a lot of work with using wireless as an
`actual sensor, underwater sensing, so on and so forth.
` So we're -- we're in architecture. Some of our
`work has an element of design in it, but we're also very
`technically deep.
` Q I wanted to go to Section 5 here, "Principal
`Fields of Interest."
` A Yes.
` Q How did you determine what to list in this part
`of your C.V.?
` A I was looking, at the time that I wrote it, in
`different kinds of fields that I working in and listed
`some of the major ones.
` Q And when was the last time you updated this;
`list of principal fields of interest?
` A Oh, on this C.V., it could be maybe four or
`five years ago.
` I don't remember.
` Q Are -- would these still constitute your
`principal fields of interest today, or would there be
`
`bit, so I wanted a sensor that would allow a dancer
`to -- information to be captured about what a dancer
`does.
` I put 17 sensors in the shoe, 16 sensors had to
`a be telemetried back to a -- a base station. A dancer
`would have two shoes. We eventually got to many more
`sensors than that. And we could build interactive music
`on top of it. Then we pioneered wearable gait analysis
`for Mass General Hospital, built a package which would
`telemetry data back that would give medical information
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`to doctors.
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` And then we did a wearable system with the
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`doctors for sports medicine at Mass General Hospital for
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`evaluating batters and pitchers, which we used in spring
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`training with a famous Boston sports team, baseball
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`team, that I won't mention.
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` These are some. Then we've done wearables to
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`control building temperature systems, measure comfort,
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`infer comfort. We've done wearables, as I mentioned
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`before, to infer affect; we've done wearable output
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`devices that also will give audio through bone
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`conduction and sense your attention in different ways.
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` We're actually very interested in sensory
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`attention of wearables now. We've produced a set of
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`glasses just in the last year --
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`IPR2020-00783
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`

`

`Transcript of Joseph Paradiso, Ph.D.
`Conducted on December 17, 2020
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`developed?
` A We started in the -- it was the 2001 time
`frame. We started publishing -- I think it was 2002 on;
`so 2000, 2001, we began the work.
` Q You mentioned for the 1997 shoe for which the
`paper was included with your declaration that it would
`communicate with a base station.
` Could you describe how it would communicate
`with a base station?
` A It -- that shoe transmitted a stream of data to
`the base station. So the -- each shoe would transmit at
`a different frequency at that time and it would just
`continue to cycle through its data.
` I think we were running at about 60 hertz, 70,
`80 hertz at that time. I don't remember. It's in the
`paper. And the base station would process the data, to
`some extent, and send a serial stream off to a computer,
`where then we would recognize features in the movement
`of the dancer and also have a rule base where we would
`generate music.
` I hope -- I hope you can hear me.
` Q I can hear you.
` A Okay. Good.
` And at that time we also envisioned a
`bidirectional communication system so we could channel
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` THE STENOGRAPHER: Doctor, I'm sorry to
`interrupt, but I need you to do a couple things for me.
` THE WITNESS: Okay.
` (Discussion held off the record.)
` THE WITNESS: We produced a set of glasses in
`the last year that measure your state of cognitive load
`that can try to infer your attention -- attention,
`attentional state, that also track where you're located
`in a room precisely.
` And, again, we're looking at that in -- in
`interactive learning and -- and lots of other research
`that involves producing content, repeating content back,
`and -- and just measuring how, you know, people respond
`to different stimuli.
` So, yeah, we -- we have used wearables for many
`things starting already in 1997 with the shoe I just
`waved in front of you.
`BY MR. RODRIGUES:
` Q What year did you create the shoe that you
`referred to and held up?
` A The first version was created in 1997. I
`believe you have a paper in the exhibits that's -- it
`was presented at the first International Conference on
`Wearable Computing in 1997.
` Q So that -- that shoe that was in the 1997 paper
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`that you referred to, how did it work?
` A It had a -- a plethora of sensors on it. The
`paper describes them. It had a sensate insole with
`pressure sensors, bin (phonetic) sensors, PAs (phonetic)
`electrics, force-sensitive resistors.
` It had sonar on it so I could locate it in a
`room. It is accelerometers on it so I could get the
`tilt of the shoe, as -- as well as a different kind of
`accelerometer to get shock when I jumped -- or the
`dancer jumped. It had gyros so I could get spin. It
`had a magnetometer so I could get the angle in the
`earth's magnetic field.
` There may have been other sensors that we had
`those on there. It had a little microcontroller on the
`board that would measure all of the sensor data
`periodically, and many times a second send updates over
`wireless to a -- a base station.
` Again, I believe I've cited the papers that
`describe the shoe system in all of its incarnations in
`detail.
` And that was the -- the early shoe. Then we
`developed a shoe for gait analysis which had another
`suite of sensors, different communication protocol, and
`we went on from there.
` Q When was this later shoe for gait analysis
`
`share and sync all of the multiple shoes up. I believe
`I included a figure from that in my declaration. It was
`in the IBM Systems Journal paper, where we would talk in
`two directions.
` We did go on to realize that system, but, you
`know, the system that we've built just had one-way
`communication, but, you know, we -- we realized that we
`would want it bidirectional.
` Q And when did you realize that?
` A Oh, we realized it pretty early; but in the IBM
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`Systems Journal paper we actually articulated it. And I
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`thesis to -- to try to develop a radio that could do
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`that.
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` Q Referring back to Exhibit 1003, are you aware
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`of any errors or omissions in this C.V.?
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` A There are definitely omissions in terms of
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`students. I -- I haven't really gone through that
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`funding. I haven't gone through that in detail; so the
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`last part of the C.V., you know, really has to be
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`updated.
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` Certainly there would be omissions in papers
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`that have come out since, talks, committees, so on and
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`so forth. I'm very active, I do many things, so it's
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`always possible there's something that isn't there. I
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`

`

`Transcript of Joseph Paradiso, Ph.D.
`Conducted on December 17, 2020
`29
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`8 (29 to 32)
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`patent on?
` A As is mentioned in my C.V., I actually am a
`member of the media labs IP committee. I actually
`chaired it for a number of years and have been also a
`member of MIT's IP committee, actually.
` And at the media lab, since we have our own
`level of autonomy, we also can decide ourselves what we
`want to patent as opposed to MIT allowing us to make
`that decision, which is the case in most of the
`departments, so we have a committee that basically
`decides whether to move forward to patent something or
`not.
` Of course, the inventors have to propose
`that --
` MR. OKANO: Dr. Paradiso, I just want to --
`I -- we are -- we are not your counsel --
` THE WITNESS: Yes.
` MR. OKANO: -- for MIT, obviously; but I just
`want -- as -- as you are talking, I'm hearing material
`that could potentially be attorney/client privileged
`with your counsel at MIT and so I would just caution
`you -- I can't provide any advice on this -- but to --
`to just remind you you might have a privilege with --
`with MIT, and to proceed accordingly.
` THE WITNESS: Yeah. I appreciate that. What
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`keep discovering papers I wrote years ago that I've
`forgotten about, so once in a while I'll add something
`from -- from way back.
` Q I want to focus on Section 10. It says
`"Consulting Record."
` A Yes.
` Q There are a lot of law firms, it seems, listed
`here.
` Is that -- is that correct?
` A Up toward the top, yes.
` Q Is it fair to conclude that if -- if it's a law
`firm engagement, that's as an expert consultant witness?
` A Yes, that's fair.
` Q Okay. For any of the others that aren't law
`firms listed, did those involve expert consulting work
`in the context of litigation?
` A Not that I remember.
` A lot of them were being on committees or doing
`a seminar series or something of that sort.
` Q When you're retained as an expert for
`litigation, are you typically retained on behalf of the
`patent owner or defendant being accused of patent
`infringement?
` A It's typically been for defendants in the cases
`I've been involved in.
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` Q Do you recall any engagement where you were
`engaged by the patent owner?
` A There are cases, of course, that are very
`complicated. Most of them are that are large cases.
`And there are simult