Gregory Fischer, Ph.D. - July 11, 2019
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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` _________________________________________
`
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
` _________________________________________
`
` INTUITIVE SURGICAL, INC.,
` Petitioner,
`
` v.
`
` ETHICON LLC,
` Patent Owner.
` _________________________________________
`
` Case IPR2018-00933
` U.S. Patent No. 9,084,601
`
` Case IPR2018-00934
` U.S. Patent No. 8,998,058
`
` Case IPR2018-00935
` U.S. Patent No. 8,991,677
`
` _________________________________________
`
` DEPOSITION of GREGORY FISCHER, Ph.D.
`
` July 11, 2019
`
` Boston, Massachusetts
`
`Reporter: Michael D. O'Connor, RMR, CRR, CRC
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
`
`Ethicon Exhibit 2016.001
`Intuitive v. Ethicon
`IPR2018-00935
`
`
`
`Page 1
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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` _________________________________________
`
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
` _________________________________________
`
` INTUITIVE SURGICAL, INC.,
` Petitioner,
`
` v.
`
` ETHICON LLC,
` Patent Owner.
` _________________________________________
`
` Case IPR2018-00933
` U.S. Patent No. 9,084,601
`
` Case IPR2018-00934
` U.S. Patent No. 8,998,058
`
` Case IPR2018-00935
` U.S. Patent No. 8,991,677
`
` _________________________________________
`
` DEPOSITION of GREGORY FISCHER, Ph.D.
`
` July 11, 2019
`
` Boston, Massachusetts
`
`Reporter: Michael D. O'Connor, RMR, CRR, CRC
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
`
`Ethicon Exhibit 2016.001
`Intuitive v. Ethicon
`IPR2018-00935
`
`
`
`Gregory Fischer, Ph.D. - July 11, 2019
`
`Page 2
`
` Thursday, July 11, 2019
`
` 10:10 a.m.
`
` DEPOSITION of GREGORY FISCHER,
`
`Ph.D., held at Fish & Richardson, P.C., One
`
`Marina Park Drive, Boston, Massachusetts,
`
`pursuant to notice, before Michael D.
`
`O'Connor, Registered Merit Reporter,
`
`Certified Realtime Reporter, Certified
`
`Realtime Captioner, and Notary Public in and
`
`for the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.
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`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
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`Ethicon Exhibit 2016.002
`Intuitive v. Ethicon
`IPR2018-00935
`
`
`
`Gregory Fischer, Ph.D. - July 11, 2019
`
`Page 3
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`APPEARANCES:
`
`ATTORNEYS FOR PETITIONER:
`
` FISH & RICHARDSON, P.C.
`
` One Marina Park Drive
`
` Boston, Massachusetts 02210
`
` (617) 521-7803
`
` BY: STEVEN R. KATZ, ESQ.
`
` katz@fr.com
`
`ATTORNEYS FOR PATENT OWNER:
`
` WEIL, GOTSHAL & MANGES LLP
`
` 201 Redwood Shores Parkway
`
` Redwood Shores, California 94065
`
` (650) 802-3985
`
` BY: ROBERT S. MAGEE, ESQ.
`
` robert.magee@weil.com
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`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
`
`Ethicon Exhibit 2016.003
`Intuitive v. Ethicon
`IPR2018-00935
`
`
`
`Gregory Fischer, Ph.D. - July 11, 2019
`
`Page 4
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` I N D E X
`
` WTINESS: GREGORY FISCHER, Ph.D.
`
` EXAMINATION BY: PAGE:
`
` Mr. Magee 5
`
` ******
`
` E X H I B I T S
`
` ( NONE MARKED )
`
` ******
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
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`Ethicon Exhibit 2016.004
`Intuitive v. Ethicon
`IPR2018-00935
`
`
`
`Gregory Fischer, Ph.D. - July 11, 2019
`
`Page 5
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` P R O C E E D I N G S
`
` GREGORY FISCHER, Ph.D.
`
` having been satisfactorily identified by the
`
` production of his driver's license, and duly
`
` sworn by the Notary Public, was examined and
`
` testified as follows:
`
` EXAMINATION
`
` BY MR. MAGEE:
`
` Q. Good morning. Welcome back, Dr.
`
` Fischer. It's good to see you again.
`
` A. Good to see you again.
`
` Q. So you understand you're here to
`
` testify under oath regarding the three IPRs.
`
` IPR 2018-00933, 934 and 935; is that correct?
`
` A. So I have the challenged patent
`
` numbers readily in front of me, just to
`
` confirm. It's for the '601, '058 and '677
`
` patents?
`
` Q. That's correct. And then just to
`
` go over the ground rules briefly again, please
`
` give me a chance to finish my question, give
`
` your attorney an opportunity to object, and
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`10:10:53
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`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
`
`Ethicon Exhibit 2016.005
`Intuitive v. Ethicon
`IPR2018-00935
`
`
`
`Gregory Fischer, Ph.D. - July 11, 2019
`
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` then I'll try my best not to speak over your
`
` answers and we can get a clean record for the
`
` court reporter. Is that fine?
`
` A. That sounds good.
`
` Q. And it's my understanding that you
`
` provided a supplemental declaration that covers
`
` your opinions for all three of the challenged
`
` patents; is that correct?
`
` A. Yes, that's correct.
`
` Q. And I see that you brought some
`
` notes with you today. What did you bring?
`
` A. I have a printed version of
`
` Exhibit 1030, which is my supplemental
`
` declaration. This was printed verbatim and
`
` marked from the filing. And then a second copy
`
` of the table of contents from that exhibit. If
`
` you would like to examine it, you can.
`
` Q. Maybe during a break. I don't
`
` need to right now.
`
` So this supplemental declaration
`
` is meant to add to your opinions from your
`
` original declaration; is that correct?
`
` A. Correct.
`
` Q. Okay. Are there any opinions from
`
` your original declaration that you are going to
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
`
`Ethicon Exhibit 2016.006
`Intuitive v. Ethicon
`IPR2018-00935
`
`
`
`Gregory Fischer, Ph.D. - July 11, 2019
`
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` change or that you don't stand by?
`
` A. I don't believe so.
`
` Q. I'm going to hand you what we'll
`
` mark as Exhibit 1, which is a copy of your
`
` original declaration, which is marked Exhibit
`
` IS 1003 in the IPR proceedings.
`
` (Document marked as Exhibit 1003
`
` for identification)
`
` Q. Go ahead and take a moment to
`
` review it if there's anything you would like to
`
` see.
`
` A. So this is verbatim the same
`
` declaration I reviewed last time, correct?
`
` Q. Yes, that's correct. It should be
`
` a single-sided printout of that declaration
`
` with no markings or changes.
`
` MR. KATZ: Just for a point of
`
` procedure. It has already been marked
`
` as Exhibit 1003. I don't believe we're
`
` supposed to be putting on new exhibit
`
` numbers. You should be referencing it
`
` as the same exhibit.
`
` MR. MAGEE: That may be correct.
`
` That's fine. This is Exhibit 1003 from
`
` the IPR proceedings. We'll do our best
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
`
`Ethicon Exhibit 2016.007
`Intuitive v. Ethicon
`IPR2018-00935
`
`
`
`Gregory Fischer, Ph.D. - July 11, 2019
`
`Page 8
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` to remember to refer to it always as
`
` Exhibit 1003 for clarity. That's a good
`
` point.
`
` Q. Could we turn to Page 38 of your
`
` declaration, which I just handed you, which is
`
` Exhibit 1003?
`
` (Document marked as Exhibit 1003
`
` for identification is withdrawn)
`
` Q. There's also one other minor
`
` point. There's two page numbers in each of
`
` these pages. When I said Page 38, I mean the
`
` larger 14 point font.
`
` A. Okay. So the page numbers that
`
` were originally part of the declaration?
`
` Q. Yes. Your original page numbers,
`
` yes.
`
` A. Which page number are we going to?
`
` Q. 38, please. So starting on Page
`
` 38, in Subsection A, is your discussion of the
`
` Heinrich prior art references; is that correct?
`
` A. Correct.
`
` Q. And at the beginning you stated
`
` that "Like the challenged patents, Heinrich
`
` discloses endoscopic surgical cutting and
`
` stapling apparatuses comprising disposable
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
`
`Ethicon Exhibit 2016.008
`Intuitive v. Ethicon
`IPR2018-00935
`
`
`
`Gregory Fischer, Ph.D. - July 11, 2019
`
`Page 9
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` loading units," correct?
`
` A. Correct.
`
` Q. And so when you were analyzing
`
` Heinrich, you were looking at the endoscopic
`
` surgical cutting and stapling apparatuses
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` disclosed in that reference; is that correct?
`
` A. I don't recall if the scope was
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` limited only to those.
`
` Q. Okay. But it included those? Or
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` more specifically, the scope of your analysis
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` included endoscopic surgical cutting and
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` stapling apparatuses; is that correct?
`
` A. As I wrote in my original
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` declaration, yes.
`
` Q. Okay. And in that sentence you
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` state that these apparatuses comprised of
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` disposable loading units. What's a disposable
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` loading unit?
`
` A. So I can't say I'm comfortable
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` defining the boundary of the term of what
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` disposable loading unit means, but it's clear
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` the Heinrich patent discloses these loading
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` units that are single-user disposable.
`
` Q. Okay. So just so I understand the
`
` sort of key characteristic that informed your
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
`
`Ethicon Exhibit 2016.009
`Intuitive v. Ethicon
`IPR2018-00935
`
`
`
`Gregory Fischer, Ph.D. - July 11, 2019
`
`Page 10
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` opinion was the fact that these loading units
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` were single-use disposable; is that correct?
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` A. I did not necessarily say that
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` they are single-use disposable. In some cases,
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` for example, they can be limited lifetime
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` devices with more than one use.
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` Q. Okay. So in your opinion, a
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` disposable loading unit includes limited
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` lifetime devices with more than one use; is
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` that correct?
`
` A. I'd say that in some scenarios,
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` that is possible.
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` Q. Okay. And when you say "limited
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` lifetime devices," what does that mean?
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` A. Generically speaking, you can have
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` medical devices that are able to be used
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` multiple times, either among multiple
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` procedures or multiple times during one
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` procedure.
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` Q. So what divides a disposable
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` loading unit from a non-disposable loading
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` unit?
`
` A. I don't recall specifically
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` analyzing that. But if there's a particular
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` location you'd like to point me to, I'd be
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
`
`Ethicon Exhibit 2016.010
`Intuitive v. Ethicon
`IPR2018-00935
`
`
`
`Gregory Fischer, Ph.D. - July 11, 2019
`
`Page 11
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` happy to review it.
`
` Q. I'm not sure that you provided an
`
` opinion here on the distinction between the
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` two. But I'm trying to understand what
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` characteristics you looked at to determine
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` whether something is a disposable loading unit?
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` A. I don't believe I've specifically
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` analyzed what the distinction is or at least
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` what the boundaries are between what makes a
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` disposable loading unit versus a non-disposable
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` loading unit.
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` I believe there are specific
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` examples of what I called disposable loading
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` units and non-disposable loading units.
`
` Q. I will go ahead and hand you a
`
` copy of what is Exhibit IS 1001 from the 933
`
` IPR, which is the challenged '601 patent.
`
` You reviewed this patent, correct?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. And did you review all the
`
` embodiments in the patent?
`
` A. I've certainly looked at all the
`
` embodiments in the patent. Some of them I've
`
` analyzed more thoroughly than others.
`
` Q. Can we turn to Column 50 of this
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
`
`Ethicon Exhibit 2016.011
`Intuitive v. Ethicon
`IPR2018-00935
`
`
`
`Gregory Fischer, Ph.D. - July 11, 2019
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`Page 12
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` patent. I believe it's on Page 147.
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. If I could direct you down to
`
` Lines 41 through 43, there's a sentence
`
` starting, "Such endocutters 3814."
`
` Do you see that?
`
` A. "Such endocutters 3814 may be
`
` referred to as a 'disposable loading unit'"?
`
` Q. Yes.
`
` A. Okay.
`
` Q. All right. So that sentence
`
` states that "Such endocutters may be referred
`
` to as a 'disposable loading unit' because they
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` are designed to be disposed of after a single
`
` use."
`
` Do you see that?
`
` A. Yes, I do.
`
` Q. Do you disagree with that
`
` definition for disposable loading unit?
`
` MR. KATZ: Objection to form.
`
` A. I would say that in one case it
`
` says "may be referred to," so I don't think
`
` that's necessarily exclusive. And also "single
`
` use," in my mind, at least only looking at the
`
` patent in that context, it's not clear to me
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
`
`Ethicon Exhibit 2016.012
`Intuitive v. Ethicon
`IPR2018-00935
`
`
`
`Gregory Fischer, Ph.D. - July 11, 2019
`
`Page 13
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` whether single use would be, for example, a
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` single firing or a single patient.
`
` Q. So in your mind, a disposable
`
` loading unit -- let me rephrase that.
`
` A loading unit that may be
`
` disposed of after a single patient would still
`
` be a disposable loading unit; is that correct?
`
` A. I haven't analyzed it thoroughly,
`
` but I would say that at least in some
`
` scenarios, that's possible.
`
` Q. Okay. Can a disposable loading
`
` unit be used on multiple patients?
`
` A. I haven't really analyzed that. I
`
` can certainly think of medical devices that are
`
` able to be used for a certain number of
`
` patients before they're no longer able to be
`
` used again.
`
` Q. And would those be a disposable
`
` loading unit?
`
` A. Those would be considered
`
` disposable instruments.
`
` Q. What devices are you thinking of
`
` when you say you're thinking of disposable
`
` instruments that can be used for a certain
`
` number of patients before they are no longer
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
`
`Ethicon Exhibit 2016.013
`Intuitive v. Ethicon
`IPR2018-00935
`
`
`
`Gregory Fischer, Ph.D. - July 11, 2019
`
`Page 14
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` able to be used again?
`
` A. They're surgical instruments with
`
` counters, for example, that will expire after a
`
` certain number of uses.
`
` Q. Sorry, is the counter expiring
`
` after a certain number of uses?
`
` A. I believe in that scenario, if the
`
` counter reaches a certain value, then the
`
` instrument will no longer be able to be
`
` utilized.
`
` Q. I just want to understand this a
`
` little bit better. When you say "surgical
`
` instruments," what kind of surgical instruments
`
` are these?
`
` A. I haven't thoroughly analyzed this
`
` situation. This is not something that I've
`
` described in either of my declarations.
`
` To the best of my knowledge, if
`
` you can point me to something, I'd be happy to
`
` review it in more detail.
`
` Q. I'm sorry, I may be confused. You
`
` said that you can certainly think of medical
`
` devices that are able to be used for a certain
`
` number of patients before they're no longer
`
` able to be used again, and I'm asking about
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
`
`Ethicon Exhibit 2016.014
`Intuitive v. Ethicon
`IPR2018-00935
`
`
`
`Gregory Fischer, Ph.D. - July 11, 2019
`
`Page 15
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` those medical devices that you're thinking of
`
` today.
`
` What are those medical devices?
`
` A. One example would be Intuitive
`
` Surgical instruments that attach to the robotic
`
` device. Those instruments or those disposable
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` components of that have counters, at least in
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` some scenarios, and some scenarios when that
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` counter reaches either up to or down to a
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` certain value, they are no longer able to be
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` used, and I would consider those to be
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` disposable or at least they can be considered
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` disposable.
`
` Q. And when you say those can be
`
` considered to be disposable, you're referring
`
` to the instruments that attach to the robotic
`
` device, correct?
`
` A. I like to be careful about the
`
` terminology. I haven't analyzed exactly what
`
` would be considered the robot and what would be
`
` considered the instrument. But the component
`
` that clips onto the end of the arm has a
`
` counter in it.
`
` Q. And the component that clips onto
`
` the arm is the part that is disposable; is that
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
`
`Ethicon Exhibit 2016.015
`Intuitive v. Ethicon
`IPR2018-00935
`
`
`
`Gregory Fischer, Ph.D. - July 11, 2019
`
`Page 16
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` correct?
`
` A. Without having a figure in front
`
` of me, it would be hard to exactly define which
`
` part it is. But from what I hear, that sounds
`
` correct.
`
` Q. Okay. I'm just trying to draw the
`
` line between the parts that are disposable or
`
` not. Would a robotic arm be considered a
`
` disposable instrument?
`
` A. Again, without having figures in
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` front of me and something specific to look at
`
` and draw a boundary on, it's hard to say that.
`
` Q. Are you generally familiar with
`
` the Intuitive Surgical instruments that you're
`
` referring to?
`
` MR. KATZ: Actually, at this
`
` point, objection. Beyond the scope.
`
` I've given you a lot of latitude here,
`
` but not pointed him to his current
`
` version yet.
`
` Q. So, Dr. Fischer, you testified
`
` you're still maintaining the opinions in your
`
` original declaration, correct?
`
` A. To the best of my knowledge, yes.
`
` Q. And they are still relevant to
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
`
`Ethicon Exhibit 2016.016
`Intuitive v. Ethicon
`IPR2018-00935
`
`
`
`Gregory Fischer, Ph.D. - July 11, 2019
`
`Page 17
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` your opinions as to whether or not the patents
`
` are invalid?
`
` A. They are relevant to the claims
`
` that I made opinions on in my original
`
` declaration, yes.
`
` MR. KATZ: And I'm just going to
`
` object. Beyond the scope. I'm just
`
` going to caution you, I'd hate to have
`
` to call the board. You already deposed
`
` him once. If you believe you can take a
`
` second deposition on the first
`
` declaration simply because it has some
`
` relevance to his opinions, we'll have to
`
` call the board, because my understanding
`
` is you've already deposed him once on
`
` that, and this is supposed to be about
`
` opinions he raises in his supplemental
`
` declaration.
`
` Q. So in your supplemental
`
` declaration, Dr. Fischer, you opine that the
`
` substitute claims of the '601 patent are
`
` invalid -- excuse me, are obvious over Viola in
`
` view of Heinrich, correct?
`
` A. Yes, I believe I have that for the
`
` claims, as far as I know, yes.
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
`
`Ethicon Exhibit 2016.017
`Intuitive v. Ethicon
`IPR2018-00935
`
`
`
`Gregory Fischer, Ph.D. - July 11, 2019
`
`Page 18
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` Q. And at least some of those claims
`
` are set in a disposable loading unit; is that
`
` correct?
`
` A. I would have to review that to
`
` make sure that terminology is in there. Are
`
` you able to point me to a specific claim that
`
` uses that terminology?
`
` Q. If I can direct you to Paragraph
`
` 57 of your supplemental declaration, which is
`
` on Page 28.
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Do you see it says there,
`
` "Heinrich discloses this limitation.
`
` Heinrich's disposable loading unit includes an
`
` attachment platform for releasably attaching
`
` disposable loading unit 618 to robot 616 via
`
` mounting flange 636"?
`
` A. Correct. And the figure below
`
` identifies 618, pointing to a generic
`
` disposable loading unit.
`
` Q. Okay. And I'm just trying to
`
` understand what you understand the disposable
`
` loading unit to be? Sitting here today, I
`
` believe you testified that you understand that
`
` a disposable loading unit can be used for more
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
`
`Ethicon Exhibit 2016.018
`Intuitive v. Ethicon
`IPR2018-00935
`
`
`
`Gregory Fischer, Ph.D. - July 11, 2019
`
`Page 19
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` than one patient; is that correct?
`
` A. I'd say there's possibly a
`
` scenario where a loading unit that would be
`
` considered disposable possibly could be used
`
` for multiple either firings and/or patients.
`
` Q. And one of those scenarios sitting
`
` here today you were thinking of was the
`
` Intuitive Surgical system?
`
` MR. KATZ: Object to the form.
`
` Beyond the scope. You may answer.
`
` A. I think that's taking it out of
`
` context. I was giving an example of a
`
` particular type of device used in surgery that
`
` has a limited lifetime. I was not calling that
`
` necessarily a disposable loading unit and I
`
` didn't specify what it actually is as part of
`
` the system relative to the claims here.
`
` Q. But you gave opinions on
`
` disposable loading units, correct?
`
` MR. KATZ: Objection to form.
`
` A. So if you go to Page 20 of my
`
` declaration, below Paragraph 41, I have a
`
` figure that we pulled from Heinrich. In that
`
` scenario, there is a dotted line drawn. It's
`
` pointing to element 618 of the Heinrich patent.
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
`
`Ethicon Exhibit 2016.019
`Intuitive v. Ethicon
`IPR2018-00935
`
`
`
`Gregory Fischer, Ph.D. - July 11, 2019
`
`Page 20
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` At least in this embodiment,
`
` that's what I considered to be the disposable
`
` loading unit as identified.
`
` Q. And in this scenario, that does
`
` not include robot arm 616; is that correct?
`
` A. In this scenario, what we are
`
` calling robot arm 616 is outside of that dotted
`
` line. That's not necessarily to define where
`
` the boundary necessarily is. That is giving
`
` the example from within the Heinrich patent of
`
` where that boundary was drawn in this
`
` embodiment.
`
` Q. So is it your understanding in
`
` Heinrich that robot 616 may be included in the
`
` disposable loading unit?
`
` A. No, I do not say that. I'm saying
`
` in this embodiment, I'm saying the robot is not
`
` included.
`
` Q. In the disposable loading unit?
`
` A. Correct. To clarify that term,
`
` relating to Figure 8 of the Heinrich patent,
`
` the robot identified as 616, which I call robot
`
` arm 616 of the robotic system, is outside of
`
` the boundary of what we defined as DLU for that
`
` specific embodiment.
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
`
`Ethicon Exhibit 2016.020
`Intuitive v. Ethicon
`IPR2018-00935
`
`
`
`Gregory Fischer, Ph.D. - July 11, 2019
`
`Page 21
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`10:31:38
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` Q. So for that embodiment, robot arm
`
` 616 is outside of the disposable loading unit;
`
` is that correct?
`
` A. I believe that's what I just said.
`
` Q. Okay. Are there any embodiments
`
` from Heinrich in which robot arm 616 part of
`
` the disposable loading unit?
`
` A. I do not recall analyzing such a
`
` scenario.
`
` Q. I'm sorry, I just want to be
`
` clear. You don't recall seeing an embodiment
`
` or you recall seeing an embodiment and you did
`
` not analyze it?
`
` A. I do not recall seeing or
`
` discussing such an embodiment.
`
` Q. Okay.
`
` A. In Heinrich.
`
` Q. I just have a few other brief
`
` questions about your original declaration. So
`
` turning back to Exhibit 1003.
`
` A. Are we done with this '601 patent
`
` for now?
`
` Q. Yes.
`
` A. What page would you like me to
`
` refer to?
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
`
`Ethicon Exhibit 2016.021
`Intuitive v. Ethicon
`IPR2018-00935
`
`
`
`Gregory Fischer, Ph.D. - July 11, 2019
`
`Page 22
`
`10:32:44
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`10:32:58
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` Q. Page 42, please. So in Subsection
`
` B, starting on Paragraph 79, you discuss the
`
` Milliman reference; is that correct?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. And you state that "Milliman
`
` discloses endoscopic surgical cutting and
`
` stapling apparatuses"; is that correct?
`
` A. That's correct. In Paragraph 79.
`
` Q. If we could just turn to Page 43.
`
` In Figure 49 of Milliman, you've annotated the
`
` knife blade; is that correct?
`
` A. Correct. That's labeled in Figure
`
` 49 on Page 43.
`
` Q. Okay. And then starting on Page
`
` 44 in Subsection C, you analyzed the Hooven
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` prior art reference; is that correct?
`
` A. Yes, that's correct.
`
` Q. And you described that as a
`
` surgical cutting and stapling apparatus; is
`
` that correct?
`
` A. Yes. That's the terminology used
`
` in Paragraph 82.
`
` Q. Okay. And then again, just on
`
` Page 45 in your annotation to Figure 6, I
`
` believe, you annotate the knife specifically,
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
`
`Ethicon Exhibit 2016.022
`Intuitive v. Ethicon
`IPR2018-00935
`
`
`
`Gregory Fischer, Ph.D. - July 11, 2019
`
`Page 23
`
`10:34:03
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` correct?
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` A. I believe that is Figure 6 where
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` we define the knife at the bottom of Page 45.
`
` Q. And I'm not --
`
` A. It's a little bit unclear where
`
` that figure number is referring to, but I
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` believe that's where that was pulled from.
`
` Q. Understood. I'm not trying to
`
` hang you up on the figure. But the figure on
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` the bottom of the page?
`
` A. Correct.
`
` Q. If we could jump ahead to Page
`
` 101. So this section on Page 101 is where you
`
` provide your opinions on the invalidity of the
`
` '058 patent; is that correct?
`
` A. That is correct.
`
` Q. And in Paragraph 187, you identify
`
` Hooven's endoscopic stapling and cutting
`
` instrument 30 as a disposable loading unit; is
`
` that correct?
`
` MR. KATZ: Objection. Beyond the
`
` scope of this deposition.
`
` A. That is correct how that paragraph
`
` starts.
`
` Q. Then on Page 135, starting on Page
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
`
`Ethicon Exhibit 2016.023
`Intuitive v. Ethicon
`IPR2018-00935
`
`
`
`Gregory Fischer, Ph.D. - July 11, 2019
`
`Page 24
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`10:36:01
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`10:37:
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