UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -x
`LOWE'S COMPANIES, INC., LOWE'S :
`HOME CENTERS, LLC AND LG
`:
`SOURCING, INC.,
`:Case Nos.
`Petitioner,
`:IPR2017-02011
`:IPR2017-02014
`v.
`:Patent 8,530,250 B2
`NICHIA CORPORATION,
`:
`Patent Owner.
`- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -x
`VIZIO, INC.,
`: Case Nos.
`Petitioner,
`: IPR2017-01608
`: IPR2017-01623
`v.
`: IPR2017-00893
`NICHIA CORPORATION,
`: Patent 8,530,250
`Patent Owner.
`- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -x
`
`Deposition of STANLEY R. SHANFIELD, PH.D.
`Boston, Massachusetts
`Monday, May 21, 2018
`9:06 a.m.
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`NICHIA EXHIBIT 2009
`Vizio, Inc. v. Nichia Corp.
`Case IPR2018-00437
`
`
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -x
`LOWE'S COMPANIES, INC., LOWE'S :
`HOME CENTERS, LLC AND LG
`:
`SOURCING, INC.,
`:Case Nos.
`Petitioner,
`:IPR2017-02011
`:IPR2017-02014
`v.
`:Patent 8,530,250 B2
`NICHIA CORPORATION,
`:
`Patent Owner.
`- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -x
`VIZIO, INC.,
`: Case Nos.
`Petitioner,
`: IPR2017-01608
`: IPR2017-01623
`v.
`: IPR2017-00893
`NICHIA CORPORATION,
`: Patent 8,530,250
`Patent Owner.
`- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -x
`
`Deposition of STANLEY R. SHANFIELD, PH.D.
`Boston, Massachusetts
`Monday, May 21, 2018
`9:06 a.m.
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`NICHIA EXHIBIT 2009
`Vizio, Inc. v. Nichia Corp.
`Case IPR2018-00437
`
`
`
`Transcript of Stanley R. Shanfield, Ph.D.
`Conducted on May 21, 2018
`
`2
`
`Job No.: 190354
`Pages: 1 - 220
`Reported By: Michelle Keegan, RMR
`
`Deposition of STANLEY R. SHANFIELD, PH.D.,
`held at the offices of:
`
`ROPES & GRAY
`Prudential Tower
`800 Boylston Street
`Boston, Massachusetts 02199-3600
`(617) 951-7000
`
`Pursuant to notice, before Michelle
`Keegan, Registered Merit Reporter and Notary
`Public in and for the Commonwealth of
`Massachusetts.
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`
`
`Transcript of Stanley R. Shanfield, Ph.D.
`Conducted on May 21, 2018
`
`3
`
` A P P E A R A N C E S
`
`ON BEHALF OF PETITIONER LOWE'S COMPANIES, INC.:
` TOD M. MELGAR, ESQ.
` SILLS CUMMIS & GROSS P.C.
` 101 Park Avenue, 28th Floor
` New York, New York 10178
` (212) 643-7000
`
`ON BEHALF OF PETITIONER VIZIO, INC.:
` GABRIELLE E. HIGGINS, ESQ.
` CHRISTOPHER M. BONNY, Esq.
` JAMES F. MACK, ESQ. (By speakerphone)
` ROPES & GRAY LLP
` 1900 University Avenue, 6th Floor
` East Palo Alto, California 94303-2284
` (650) 617-4000
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`
`
`Transcript of Stanley R. Shanfield, Ph.D.
`Conducted on May 21, 2018
`
`4
`
`APPEARANCES (continued):
`
` ON BEHALF OF OWNER NICHIA CORPORATION:
` MARTIN M. ZOLTICK, ESQ.
` MICHAEL JONES, ESQ.
` ROTHWELL, FIGG, ERNST & MANBECK, P.C.
` 607 14th Street, N.W.
` Washington, D.C. 20005
` (202) 783-6040
`
` ALSO PRESENT:
` E. Fred Schubert
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`
`
`Transcript of Stanley R. Shanfield, Ph.D.
`Conducted on May 21, 2018
`
`5
`
` C O N T E N T S
`
`EXAMINATION OF STANLEY R. SHANFIELD, PH.D. PAGE
` By Mr. Zoltick 6
`
` E X H I B I T S
` (Attached to transcript.)
`SHANFIELD DEPOSITION EXHIBITS PAGE
`Exhibit 1 Diagram 75
`Exhibit 2 Diagram 104
`Exhibit 3 Diagram 113
`Exhibit 4 Diagram 114
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`
`
`Transcript of Stanley R. Shanfield, Ph.D.
`Conducted on May 21, 2018
`
`6
`
` P R O C E E D I N G S
` STANLEY R. SHANFIELD, PH.D.,
`having been satisfactorily identified and duly
`sworn by the Notary Public, was examined and
`testified as follows:
` EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR OWNER NICHIA
`BY MR. ZOLTICK:
` Q Good morning.
` A Good morning.
` Q For the record, can you just state your
`full name and your home and your business address.
` A My name is Stanley Shanfield. My home
`address is 342 Otis Street in Newton,
`Massachusetts 02465. My business address is
`Draper Laboratories, 555 Technology Square,
`Cambridge, Mass. 02139.
` Q Okay. And my name is Marty Zoltick. I am
`from the law firm of Rothwell Figg, here with my
`colleague Michael Jones. We represent the patent
`owner, Nichia Corporation, in all five of the IPRs
`that you have your declaration over there for.
` And I know you've given your -- you've
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`
`
`Transcript of Stanley R. Shanfield, Ph.D.
`Conducted on May 21, 2018
`
`7
`
`given a deposition before, but since we're in an
`IPR proceeding, I'm just going to go over some of
`the ground rules for you. Is that okay?
` A Sure.
` Q I'm going to ask you a series of
`questions. You understand that?
` A Uh-hmm.
` Q And you have to say --
` A Oh, yes.
` Q -- yes or no just for the court reporter.
`Okay?
` A Yes.
` Q And if there -- any questions I ask you
`you don't understand, I would ask that you please
`let me know and I'll try and ask you a better
`question. Is that fair?
` A Yes.
` Q And if you do answer my question, I'm
`going to assume that you understood what I was
`asking. All right?
` A Okay.
` Q If you need a break, let me know and I
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`
`
`Transcript of Stanley R. Shanfield, Ph.D.
`Conducted on May 21, 2018
`
`8
`
`will do my best to try and accommodate that. The
`only exception is when there's a question that's
`pending, between the question and the answer, at
`that point we won't take any break. You're going
`to have to answer my question, unless there's
`something having to do with a privilege issue,
`which I doubt there will be.
` Do you understand that?
` A Yes, I do.
` Q And then there's some specific rules,
`ground rules, that relate to AIA trials, IPR
`proceedings. And I just want to read those to you
`so you're clear on those and make sure you don't
`have any questions.
` Once your cross-examination has commenced,
`which it has at this point, and until
`cross-examination has concluded, counsel offering
`the witness on direct examination -- that's your
`counsel from Ropes & Gray as well as from Sills
`Cummis for Lowe's -- you're not allowed to and
`they're not allowed to consult or confer with you
`regarding the substance of your testimony already
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`
`
`Transcript of Stanley R. Shanfield, Ph.D.
`Conducted on May 21, 2018
`
`9
`
`given or anticipated to be given, except for the
`purpose of conferring on whether to assert a
`privilege against testifying or on how to comply
`with the board order; or B, suggest to you the
`manner in which any questions should be answered.
` Do you understand that?
` A Yes, I do.
` Q And you will abide by that?
` A Yes, I do.
` Q And in addition, the testimony guidelines
`of the board say that an attorney for a witness
`shall not initiate a private conference with the
`witness or call for a break in the proceedings
`while a question is pending, except for the
`purpose of determining whether a privilege should
`be asserted.
` A Right.
` Q Do you understand that?
` A Yes. You had said that before. Right.
` Q Okay. And you understand, Dr. Shanfield,
`that you're under oath?
` A Yes.
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`
`
`Transcript of Stanley R. Shanfield, Ph.D.
`Conducted on May 21, 2018
`
`10
`
` Q Okay. And any reason that today or
`tomorrow during your cross-examination you can't
`answer the questions that I'm going to ask you and
`my colleague is going to be asking you truthfully
`and honestly and accurately?
` A No, no reason.
` MS. HIGGINS: Mr. Zoltick, we had talked
`about prior to the deposition you had asked if two
`lawyers could depose the witness here over the
`course of the next two days with respect to the
`five proceedings.
` And I had -- counsel for Vizio and Lowe's
`had indicated that we wouldn't have an objection
`to that as long as one lawyer was questioning with
`respect to the Vizio grounds, and then we were
`going to close that deposition, and then the
`second lawyer would question with respect to the
`Kuong grounds and then we would full stop the
`deposition.
` Is that how we're going to proceed here?
`Do we have that agreement?
` MR. ZOLTICK: That's how we're planning to
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`
`
`Transcript of Stanley R. Shanfield, Ph.D.
`Conducted on May 21, 2018
`
`11
`
`proceed. I'm going to be questioning regarding
`the IPRs relating to Park, where Park is the
`primary reference, and my colleague is going to be
`questioning the witness relating to the IPRs where
`Koung is the primary reference. When I'm done, I
`will conclude the Park IPRs and then Mr. Jones
`will initiate and begin with the Koung IPRs.
` The only thing is, I want a single
`transcript so that we don't have to go over things
`if I'm going to ask the witness, for example,
`about his background and some other things like
`that.
` MS. HIGGINS: That's understood. I just
`wanted to make those -- that agreement clear.
` MR. ZOLTICK: And also, just so we don't
`get into some argument later on, my understanding
`is pretty clear on this that we can use his
`transcript of the next two days in any of the IPR
`proceedings?
` MS. HIGGINS: Right. And we also
`discussed that with respect to the depositions
`we'll be taking of Nichia, both with respect to
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`
`
`Transcript of Stanley R. Shanfield, Ph.D.
`Conducted on May 21, 2018
`
`12
`
`Dr. Schubert and others, that we have that same
`agreement.
` MR. ZOLTICK: Yes.
` MS. HIGGINS: Okay.
`BY MR. ZOLTICK:
` Q So before we begin, your counsel was
`talking about these number of declarations and the
`various IPRs.
` You've given a number of declarations
`in -- I think we have five IPRs that you're
`testifying about over the next two days. Correct?
` A Yes, that's correct.
` Q Okay. I'm going to start to ask you about
`your testimony where you're alleging that the
`challenged claims of the '250 patent are invalid
`based on the Park '697 reference alone and then in
`combination with other references. Okay?
` A All right.
` Q And you understand we'll get -- you have a
`copy of it, but you understand what I'm referring
`to when I say "the Park '697 reference"?
` A Yes.
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`
`
`Transcript of Stanley R. Shanfield, Ph.D.
`Conducted on May 21, 2018
`
`13
`
` Q And let's start with 1003. This has been
`previously marked. This Vizio 1003, which I'm
`sure you all have copies of. And you're going to
`use the copy you have in front of you.
` A All right.
` Q And you represent that the only notes on
`there are the Vizio Park notation that you wrote
`on the front?
` A That's right. That's all I've done.
` Q And just for the record, that's your
`testimony in IPR 2017-01608. Is that correct? I
`guess it's not going to say it on the front.
` A I don't see it on the front.
` Q Okay. That's fine. It is your testimony.
`Correct?
` A It is. Yes.
` Q And you have a section in your testimony
`that's titled "Background on the State of the
`Art." Is that right? I believe it's on -- I'm
`going to use the page numbers that are actually in
`your declaration, not the stuff that Vizio did on
`the bottom right. Is that okay with you?
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`
`
`Transcript of Stanley R. Shanfield, Ph.D.
`Conducted on May 21, 2018
`
`14
`
` A That's fine.
` Q I'm looking at pages 8 to 15.
` A Yes.
` Q And that's your discussion entitled "The
`Background on the State of the Art"? Is that
`correct?
` A That's right. Section 5, starting on
`page 8.
` Q And you understand, Dr. Shanfield, what
`I'm referring to when I make a reference to an
`"array-type lead frame"?
` A It has to be in the context of discussion
`we're having about the claims. So maybe you can
`tell me what the context is.
` Q Sure. Well, I can give you -- let's see
`if we can agree on an example of a lead frame
`that's an array-type lead frame is the lead frame
`that's described in the '250 patent. Is that
`correct?
` A Can you be more specific?
` Q You agree with me that there's a lead
`frame that's described -- you understand what the
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`
`
`Transcript of Stanley R. Shanfield, Ph.D.
`Conducted on May 21, 2018
`
`15
`
`'250 patent is. Right?
` A Well, those are very general questions.
`I've looked at the '250 patent. I understand how
`to interpret it.
` What is it you want to ask?
` Q You're very familiar with the '250 patent.
`Correct?
` A Yes.
` Q And you've given opinions in five IPRs,
`the claims of the '250 patent are invalid over a
`number of different references. Correct?
` A Yes.
` Q Okay. And you also understand that the
`'250 patent describes what's called a lead frame.
`Is that correct?
` A Yes, that is correct.
` Q Okay. And if you don't understand what I
`mean -- if you don't have an understanding of what
`an array-type lead frame is, that's fine. You can
`just say "I don't understand."
` You've asked me to be specific about the
`context. In the '250 patent, there is described
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`
`
`Transcript of Stanley R. Shanfield, Ph.D.
`Conducted on May 21, 2018
`
`16
`
`an array-type lead frame.
` A Can you show me that?
` Q You have your copy of the '250 patent?
` A Yes.
` MR. ZOLTICK: Since I'm going to refer to
`it, I'll give it to you all as well.
` Q Let me direct you to Figure 5, for
`example. Figure 5 is an example of an array-type
`lead frame. Is that correct?
` MS. HIGGINS: Objection. Form.
` MR. MELGAR: Same objection for Lowe's.
` Is it okay if I just -- Lowe's is going to
`adopt all of Vizio's objections unless I say
`otherwise, just to make things run more smoothly?
` MR. ZOLTICK: That's fine.
` A Well, no. I'm asking where in the text of
`the '250 is that word "array-type lead frame"?
` Q If you don't understand what an array-type
`lead frame is, you can tell me. I'm asking you a
`very simple question. If you can't answer it, say
`"I'm not able to answer your question."
` Is the lead frame illustrated in Figure 5
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`
`
`Transcript of Stanley R. Shanfield, Ph.D.
`Conducted on May 21, 2018
`
`17
`
`an array-type lead frame?
` MS. HIGGINS: Objection to form.
` A Again, I asked you for a context. You're
`not giving me one.
` Q I'm giving you a context in the
`'250 patent. If you're not going to answer my
`question, say "I can't answer your question."
` A Show me where that term is used and I can
`tell you what they're talking about.
` Q I don't know where the term is used. I
`don't think that's relevant to my question.
` A I think it is.
` Q Is it your testimony that the '250 patent
`does not disclose an array-type lead frame?
` A No.
` Q Is it your testimony that the '250 patent
`does disclose an array-type lead frame?
` A Before I tell you whether it does or not,
`I want to see that specific term used in the
`'250 patent. It's not an obvious question.
` Q Have you heard of the -- have you used the
`term "array-type" with reference to a lead frame
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`
`
`Transcript of Stanley R. Shanfield, Ph.D.
`Conducted on May 21, 2018
`
`18
`
`in your 30-plus years of experience working in the
`industry of the --
` A Not exactly.
` Q What does that mean, "not exactly"? Have
`you used it or have you not used it?
` A Used the word "array."
` Q It's a new concept to you?
` A Absolutely not.
` Q What word have you used to refer to an
`array-type lead frame in the context of your
`experience?
` A An array.
` Q In the context of your experience in the
`industry, is what's shown in Figure 5 an
`array-type lead frame?
` MS. HIGGINS: Objection. Form.
` A So once again, since you're refusing to
`answer my question, which is where is that term
`used in the '250 patent, I'm unable to give you an
`answer as to what they mean.
` Q Let's take a look at Figure 7. Maybe that
`will be easier for you.
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`
`
`Transcript of Stanley R. Shanfield, Ph.D.
`Conducted on May 21, 2018
`
`19
`
` A No, the figures won't do it. I need the
`language.
` Q Well, you agree with me that Figure 7 is
`illustrating a lead frame?
` A Yes.
` Q And Figure 7 -- do you agree with me that
`Figure 7 shows an array?
` MS. HIGGINS: Objection. Form.
` A You're asking me the same question.
` Q Yeah.
` A Repeatedly. And I'm telling you, show me
`where it says an array lead frame or lead frame
`array, or whatever the term was that you were
`using.
` Q Is it your testimony that a patent has to
`use the term in order to disclose it, the concept?
` MS. HIGGINS: Objection to form.
` A What does that have to do with my request?
` Q Is it your testimony that in order for a
`patent to disclose, for example, an array-type
`lead frame, that the patent would have to use that
`term "array-type lead frame"?
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`
`
`Transcript of Stanley R. Shanfield, Ph.D.
`Conducted on May 21, 2018
`
`20
`
` MS. HIGGINS: Same objection.
` A I don't see the relevance of your
`question.
` What I asked for was, show me where in the
`patent, the '250 patent, that term is used that
`you were applying to the patent and I can give you
`the meaning in that context.
` Q Right. And I'm just trying to understand
`your refusal to answer the specific question I'm
`asking.
` A I'm not refusing.
` Q To me, it sounds like you're saying if the
`patent doesn't use the term you're incapable of
`answering my question. And I just want to know if
`that's your position.
` MS. HIGGINS: Objection to form.
`Mischaracterizes the witness's testimony.
` A I am not refusing to answer your question.
`Let me clarify. And you asked me what the meaning
`was or -- maybe if you could read back what the
`question originally was. I'd appreciate it.
` Q My original question before we started
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`
`
`Transcript of Stanley R. Shanfield, Ph.D.
`Conducted on May 21, 2018
`
`21
`
`this is, do you understand what I'm referring to
`when I make reference to an array-type lead frame?
` A Okay. So I'm asking you to show me where
`in the text it says "array-type lead frame" so
`that I can give you my understanding of the
`meaning in that context.
` Q Okay. Well, I'm referring you to
`Figure 7.
` A And I explained that the figure alone
`isn't what I'm interested in.
` Q Okay. You understand that the '250 patent
`has text in the specification that describes
`Figure 7. Correct? Or describes the lead frame
`as shown?
` A It probably does. Yes.
` Q Okay. And if you'll look at -- let's see.
`It's Column 18, under "Brief Description of the
`Drawings." It says, for example, "Figure 7 is a
`plan view illustrating lead frame used in the
`second embodiment." Correct?
` A You're talking about Column 18, line 49 --
`48 and 49?
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`
`
`Transcript of Stanley R. Shanfield, Ph.D.
`Conducted on May 21, 2018
`
`22
`
` Q Yes.
` A Yeah. It says, "Figure 7 is a plan view
`illustrating a lead frame used in the second
`embodiment."
` Q Right. So that's a lead frame which is
`described in the '250 patent. Correct?
` A Yes.
` Q Okay. And if we look at Figure 3, that's
`also a plan view illustrating a lead frame that's
`used in the first embodiment of the '250 patent.
`Correct?
` A That's correct. It says that on
`Column 18, line 49 and 50.
` Q Okay. And with the benefit of referring
`to Figure 3 and Figure 7, for example, and the
`description -- the brief description of the
`drawings, do you agree with me that the
`'250 patent discloses an array-type lead frame?
` MR. MELGAR: Objection.
` A You've asked me that question, and I've
`made a request. Show me where the description is
`made. This -- as an array-type lead frame, I
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`
`
`Transcript of Stanley R. Shanfield, Ph.D.
`Conducted on May 21, 2018
`
`23
`
`think was the phrase you used, which isn't a
`phrase -- well, in any case, I'm asking you to
`show me that so I can explain what they mean in
`that context.
` Q Are the lead frames shown in Figure 3 and
`Figure 7 arranged such that the LED devices that
`will be manufactured from them will be
`manufactured by cutting through the lead frame in
`an array -- as an array?
` MS. HIGGINS: Objection to form.
` Q Are you more comfortable if I use the word
`"matrix"?
` A No. "Array" is a good term. But you said
`"array-type lead frame," and that isn't a
`particularly -- I mean, I want to understand what
`you are asking me in enough detail so I can answer
`it.
` Q Sure. And just so the record is clear,
`you have not referred to lead frames in the past,
`prior to your involvement in the '250 patent IPRs,
`as array-type lead frames. Is that correct?
` A I may have. I don't recall. I certainly
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`
`
`Transcript of Stanley R. Shanfield, Ph.D.
`Conducted on May 21, 2018
`
`24
`
`used the word "array" and "lead frame" or "lead
`frame array." I have seen lead frames that are
`arranged in a lead frame array.
` But you're asking me in this context. I
`requested that you give me a context in the patent
`so I can explain what is meant.
` Q Do you have an understanding what I'm
`referring to when I refer to a "strip-type lead
`frame"?
` A Show me where that is explained or that
`term is used, "strip-type."
` Q Have you seen strip-type lead frames in
`any of the prior art references that you have
`evaluated and given an opinion that the
`'250 patent claims are invalid?
` MS. HIGGINS: Objection to form.
` A I don't recall. I'm not sure what you
`mean, so maybe you could explain that.
` Q When is the last time you looked at the
`prior art references that you're basing your
`opinion of invalidity?
` A I've looked them over in the past two
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`
`
`Transcript of Stanley R. Shanfield, Ph.D.
`Conducted on May 21, 2018
`
`25
`
`days.
` Q Okay. And you can't recall whether any of
`those references describe or disclose what's
`called a strip-type lead frame?
` MS. HIGGINS: Objection to form.
` A What do you mean by "a strip-type lead
`frame"? In what context?
` Q Okay. Well, the context is the prior art
`references. I'm trying to give you a frame of
`reference because you asked for it.
` A Tell me which one.
` Q And my question is -- well --
` A Are you asking me did I see it in the Park
`reference or Park '697 reference?
` Q Does that help you answer my question?
` A I'm asking you a question. Is that what
`you're asking?
` Q We can take the Park '697 reference, and
`yeah, that's an example of a strip-type lead
`frame. Is that correct?
` MS. HIGGINS: Objection to form.
` A Show me where in the '697 it uses that
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`
`
`Transcript of Stanley R. Shanfield, Ph.D.
`Conducted on May 21, 2018
`
`26
`
`term because I don't know what you mean by that
`phrase.
` Q And so I just want to make sure I
`understand your position --
` A The reason I'm being careful about it is
`because it involves the claim language, and I want
`to be precise about how I answer.
` Q Right. Does a reference, like Park '697,
`have to use the particular term in order to
`describe, for example, a strip-type lead frame?
` MS. HIGGINS: Objection to form.
` A So I don't know what you mean by
`"strip-type lead frame." But no, the reference
`doesn't have to have that language specifically in
`there in order to -- for a person of skill in the
`art to understand what it's referring to.
` Q Okay. And as a person of ordinary skill
`in the art or as someone testifying about what
`would be -- what a reference would teach to a
`person of ordinary skill in the art, do you have
`an opinion as to whether the '697 -- the Park '697
`reference describes a strip-type lead frame?
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`
`
`Transcript of Stanley R. Shanfield, Ph.D.
`Conducted on May 21, 2018
`
`27
`
` MS. HIGGINS: Objection to form.
` A Let me go to the '697.
` (Pause)
` Q You can take Figure 5, for example, and
`whatever it is describing in it.
` You agree with me, Dr. Shanfield, Figure 5
`is an example of a strip-type lead frame?
` A No.
` MS. HIGGINS: Objection to form.
` Q Is that an array-type lead frame?
` A It looks like it. There's continuation in
`both directions.
` Q And what is it that you're --
` A The wavy lines in the mechanical drawing
`in Figure 5, that's on page -- Vizio page 24,
`Exhibit 1004. Those wavy lines indicate that the
`structure continues and repeats.
` Q Right.
` A So it's not a strip. It's got repeated
`structure in it in both directions.
` Q So you can look at the drawing and tell
`that from the wavy lines. Is that correct?
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`
`
`Transcript of Stanley R. Shanfield, Ph.D.
`Conducted on May 21, 2018
`
`28
`
` A Yes.
` Q So which type of lead frame is this?
` A Well, you'll have to explain to me what
`you mean by a "strip-type lead frame" or an
`"array-type lead frame." It's not something that
`I particularly use to describe.
` It's not in the form of a strip. It is in
`the form of an array, in Figure 5.
` Q And the basis for your testimony that the
`lead frame that is shown in Figure 5 is in the
`form of an array is the squiggly lines that are on
`the top and the bottom of the lead frame in
`Figure 5. Is that correct?
` A Not only those, but the fact that since
`this is a lead frame and a person of skill in the
`art would understand lead frames of this type are
`usually on a reel that is continuous, so the other
`direction, I also think a person of skill in the
`art would interpret that as being continuous.
` Q You're also familiar and you've relied on
`the Park '486 reference. Is that correct?
` A Yes, that's correct.
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`
`
`Transcript of Stanley R. Shanfield, Ph.D.
`Conducted on May 21, 2018
`
`29
`
` Q And you have that?
` A Yes.
` Q You agree with me that the Park '486
`reference describes a strip-type lead frame?
` MS. HIGGINS: Objection. Form.
` A Can you show me which part of this
`reference you're talking about?
` Q You can look at Figure 6.
` A And could you ask your question again?
` Q You understand, Dr. Shanfield, and agree
`that the Park '486 reference describes a
`strip-type lead frame. Is that correct?
` A No.
` Q So with respect to Figure 6, it's your
`testimony that that is not a strip-type lead
`frame. Is that correct?
` MS. HIGGINS: Objection to form.
` A Like I said, I don't know what you mean by
`"strip-type." That is -- that lead frame is not
`in the form of a strip.
` Q Dr. Shanfield, you understand what I'm
`referring to when I make reference to a
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`
`
`Transcript of Stanley R. Shanfield, Ph.D.
`Conducted on May 21, 2018
`
`30
`
`"top-emitting" or "top-view LED"?
` MS. HIGGINS: Objection to form.
` A I guess I'd like to understand the context
`you're asking me that question in.
` Q The '250 patent --
` A It can have more than one meaning.
` Q The '250 patent, for example, describes
`top-emitting or top-view LEDs. Is that correct?
` (Pause)
` A Well, in my inspection of the '250, which
`I -- if I were to try and read the whole thing, it
`would take too long. In an inspection of the
`language, I don't see any explanation of what type
`of LED, whether it's top-emitting or not, is being
`used. That's certainly something that could be
`accommodated in what's described, but I don't see
`it in there.
` Q You understand what I'm referring to when
`I refer to a side-view LED?
` A No.
` Q Okay. Is the LED that's described in Park
`'486 a side-view LED or side-view-type LED?
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`
`
`Transcript of Stanley R. Shanfield, Ph.D.
`Conducted on May 21, 2018
`
`31
`
` MR. MELGAR: Objection to form.
` MS. HIGGINS: Same objection.
` A In Park '697, the question is what?
` Q No. In Park '486. Do you agree with me
`that the LED that's described there is an example
`of a side-view-type LED?
` A Are you talking about the semiconductor
`device itself? There's side-emitting
`semiconductor devices and top-emitting
`semiconductor devices.
` Q The LED device that's described in Park
`'486, is that a side-view-type LED?
` MS. HIGGINS: Objection to form.
` A You didn't answer my question.
` Q The packaged device.
` A So I don't know what you mean by that.
`Can you give me a little more detail?
` Q I can give you, for example, reference to
`Figure 12. That's an example of a side-view-type
`LED. Is that correct?
` A The term used in the claim is a
`"side-view-type light-emitting diode." Is that
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`
`
`Transcript of Stanley R. Shanfield, Ph.D.
`Conducted on May 21, 2018
`
`32
`
`what you're referring to?
` Q You agree with me that the light-emitting
`diode, to use that term, as described in Park '486
`is a side view. Correct?
` MS. HIGGINS: Objection to form.
` A What the claim language describes is a
`side-view-type light-emitting diode. So if that's
`what you mean, yes.
` Q Does the '250 patent describe a
`top-view-type light-emitting diode?
` MS. HIGGINS: Objection to form.
` Q Or an example of that?
` A As I said -- since you've asked that
`question before, as I said, I need to understand
`where and what you mean by it, either -- provide
`me with some context in the language or give me
`further explanation of what the hypothetical is or
`what it is you're asking.
` Q If you're not able to answer my question,
`then you should just tell me you're not able to
`answer.
` A I am able.
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`
`
`Transcript of Stanley R. Shanfield, Ph.D.
`Conducted on May 21, 2018
`
`33
`
` Q You're trying to characterize my question
`as a hypothetical. You're doing everything you
`can not to answer my questions, and that's up to
`you.
` MS. HIGGINS: Objection to form.
` Q The record will be very clear.
` MS. HIGGINS: Objection. Form.
`Argumentative.
` A And like I said, I want to answer your
`question. I want to answer it accurately, and
`therefore, I'm asking you for enough information
`to give you a good answer. I'm not refusing to
`answer.
` Q Like I said, the record will be clear
`about your testimony.
` So do you agree with me, Dr. Shanfield,
`that silver is a noble metal?
` A I believe so, yeah.
` Q And you understand that noble metals are
`considered to be chemically inert?
` MS. HIGGINS: Objection to form.
` A I've heard the term "noble gas." I
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`
`
`Transcript of Stanley R. Shanfield, Ph.D.
`Conducted on May 21, 2018
`
`34
`
`haven't heard the term "noble metal," so I
`withdraw my response earlier. I don't know if
`silver is a noble metal.
` A noble gas is nonreactive and has its
`entire el
Accessing this document will incur an additional charge of $.
After purchase, you can access this document again without charge.
Accept $ Charge
Still Working On It
This document is taking longer than usual to download. This can happen if we need to contact the court directly to obtain the document and their servers are running slowly.
Give it another minute or two to complete, and then try the refresh button.
A few More Minutes ... Still Working
It can take up to 5 minutes for us to download a document if the court servers are running slowly.
Thank you for your continued patience.
This document could not be displayed.
We could not find this document within its docket. Please go back to the docket page and check the link. If that does not work, go back to the docket and refresh it to pull the newest information.
Your account does not support viewing this document.
You need a Paid Account to view this document. Click here to change your account type.
Your account does not support viewing this document.
Set your membership
status to view this document.
With a Docket Alarm membership, you'll
get a whole lot more, including:
- Up-to-date information for this case.
- Email alerts whenever there is an update.
- Full text search for other cases.
- Get email alerts whenever a new case matches your search.
One Moment Please
The filing “” is large (MB) and is being downloaded.
Please refresh this page in a few minutes to see if the filing has been downloaded. The filing will also be emailed to you when the download completes.
Your document is on its way!
If you do not receive the document in five minutes, contact support at support@docketalarm.com.
Sealed Document
We are unable to display this document, it may be under a court ordered seal.
If you have proper credentials to access the file, you may proceed directly to the court's system using your government issued username and password.
Access Government Site
