Minutes of the Power via the MDI Task ForceInterim Meeting, May 24-25Ottawa, CanadaThe Meeting was called to order by Steve Carlson, chairman at 8:45 am, May 24, 2000.Steve Buck, TDK was asked to be recording secretary for this meeting. The first Itemwas a statement of the objectives for week
`
`–
`
`Continue to define the constraints–
` Map possible solutions against the constraints–
` Make decision on voltage, current levels based upon data–
` Decide on powering technique and pair usage–
`
` Decide on discovery mechanismIt was noted that there were a number of new participants (about 20 or 30%).The agenda was presented to the group, no changes to the agenda were presented.The agenda included the following administrative items:Task Force StatusPar approved by NESCOM 1/00Details of the E-mail reflectorDiscussion on the use of reflector (e.g. no flaming)Discussion of Working Group voting membership rulesFuture Meetings:Plenary July 10-14 La Jolla, Ca.Interim – September 11-14, Boston, Mass.Statement of ObjectivesPresentation guidelinesShort Term ScheduleTask force ObjectivesThe Agenda and Opening remarks are posted separately to the Website.This was followed by a short discussion of the decision list (a list of outstandingquestions to be answered by the group and a review of the requirements list.• Maximum Voltage (Objective 5)• Maximum and minimum current (Objective 5)• Are classifications required, and (if so) how many (Objective 6)• Detection to be made on same pair as power• Which pair(s)? (Objective 7)• What level of support for 2-pair legacy systems (Objective 7)
`
`Page 1 of 8
`
`CHRIMAR 2042
`
`
`
`–
`
`Continue to define the constraints–
` Map possible solutions against the constraints–
` Make decision on voltage, current levels based upon data–
` Decide on powering technique and pair usage–
`
` Decide on discovery mechanismIt was noted that there were a number of new participants (about 20 or 30%).The agenda was presented to the group, no changes to the agenda were presented.The agenda included the following administrative items:Task Force StatusPar approved by NESCOM 1/00Details of the E-mail reflectorDiscussion on the use of reflector (e.g. no flaming)Discussion of Working Group voting membership rulesFuture Meetings:Plenary July 10-14 La Jolla, Ca.Interim – September 11-14, Boston, Mass.Statement of ObjectivesPresentation guidelinesShort Term ScheduleTask force ObjectivesThe Agenda and Opening remarks are posted separately to the Website.This was followed by a short discussion of the decision list (a list of outstandingquestions to be answered by the group and a review of the requirements list.• Maximum Voltage (Objective 5)• Maximum and minimum current (Objective 5)• Are classifications required, and (if so) how many (Objective 6)• Detection to be made on same pair as power• Which pair(s)? (Objective 7)• What level of support for 2-pair legacy systems (Objective 7)
`
`Page 1 of 8
`
`CHRIMAR 2042
`
`
`
`• Maximum voltage not to exceed SELV IEC 950
`802.3af Requirements
`
`• Level of support for 1000BASE-T (Objectives 1 & 9)• Determine fault behavior• Determine type of discovery mechanism• Single or multi-tiered discovery mechanism• Of the known RJ-45 devices can we determine which can we live with?• Level of support for mid-span insertion• AC or DC• Should we define a standard means to provide optional visual indications of theability to supply power from a connector and/or is it currently providing power?
`• Without specifying the two and only two pairs to be utilized for DTE power, DTEpower shall utilize two pair powering where each wire in the pair is at the samenominal potential and the power supply potential is between the two pairs selected.- January 2000 Interim• Regardless of the detection scheme adopted and the power feed scheme adopted,the power detection and power feed shall operate on the same set of pairs. -January 2000 Interim• Regardless of the final voltage selected, the DTE power max voltage shall notexceed the limits of SELV per IEC 950. - January 2000 Interim• In order to progress we accept that there are two isolation requirements of 802.3,environment A and B per 802.3 section 27.5.3 et al, and that for the purposes ofthis committee we will treat as a priority for consideration environment B withoutprecluding environment A. - March 2000 Plenary• For DC systems the minimum output voltage of the source equipment powersupply shall be at least 40VDC. - March 2000 Plenary• For DC systems, the source device shall be capable of supplying a minimumcurrent of at least 300mA per port. - March 2000 Plenary• The solution for DTE Powering shall support mid-span insertion of the powersource. - March 2000 Plenary
`
`Page 2 of 8
`
`CHRIMAR 2042
`
`
`
`Scheduled Presentation ListPresentations resulting from motions or other discussions are included within theminutes.
`
`• “
`
`Basic Methods for DTE Power Delivery”, Ed Walker, TI•
` “ISOLATION CONSIDERATIONS for MDI POWER SOURCES and MDI-POWEREDDTE”, John Jetzt, Donald Stewart, Lucent•
` “Common Mode and Differential Mode Discovery Techniques,” Rick Brooks,Nortel•
` “Update on the Diode Discovery Process,” Robert Muir, Level One•
` “IEEE 802.3 DTE Power via MDI Detection and Signature Protocol,” RichardGlaser, John Jetzt, Dieter Knollman, Robert Leonowich, Donald Stewart, Lucent•
` “Proposal for Consensus,” Ralph Andersson, TDK•
` “Cabling from the User Perspective,” Bob Love, Dave Kooistra, IBM•
` “DTE Power at the Endpoint,” Karl Nakamura, Cisco•
` “Phone Discovery at the Mid-Span, Karl Nakamura, Cisco•
` “DTE power via MDI, An Alternative Proposal,” Hans Sitte, Aligent•
` “Insertion and Return Loss with Mid-Span Insertion,” Mike Nootbar, TDK•
` “Transformer Coupling at the Mid-Span,” Kevin Brown, Broadcom•
` “DTE Power via MDI, G. Vergnaud, R. Gass, ALCATEL•
`
` “Powering and Discovery Alternatives,” Arlan Anderson, NortelMotion to approve agendaMoved: Mike McCormackSecond Bill. QuackenbushApproved by acclimation1st Presentation - Basic Methods for DTE Power DeliveryEd Walker, TI Analog Field Applications.BreakMeeting resumed at 10:30AMPresentation - Isolation Considerations -John Jetzt, Donald Stuart, LucentPresentation - Common Mode and Differential Discovery Techniques - Rick Brooks,NortelLunch BreakMeeting resumed at 1:15 PMPresentation - Update on Diode Discovery Process - Robert Muir, Level One
`
`Page 3 of 8
`
`CHRIMAR 2042
`
`
`
`Presentation - Detection and Signature Protocol - Bob Leonowich , Richard Glaser etal., LucentBreakMeeting resumed at 3:10PMGeoff Thompson made a short speech on IEEE Patent Policy. The new IEEE policy nowrequests a letter disclosing patents a head of time, not after a standard is approvedPresentation - TR42.1 Liaison report - Chris DominicoTR42 has set up a task group to answer the questions from IEEE 802.3Presentation - DTE Power over MDI - Building Consensus - Ralph Andersson, TDKSemiconductorPresentation - User requirements for Cabling Support - Robert Love, LAN ConnectConsultants, Dave Kooistra, IBMPresentation - Power over the MDI - Karl Nakamura, Roger Karam, Cisco SystemsPresentation - Power over the MDI using the two signal pairs - Karl Nakamura, RogerKaram, Cisco SystemsMotion to adjourn: McCormack Time: 5:24PMSecond: QuakenbushApproved by acclimationThursday May 25, 2000The Meeting was called to order by Steve Carlson, chairman at 8:30AM, May 25, 2000Presentation - DTE Power via the MDI, an Alternative Proposal - Hans Sitte, AgilentPresentation - Return Loss with Mid-span - Mike Nootbaar, TDK SemiconductorPresentation - Mid span Insertion using Transformer coupling - Kevin Brown,BroadcomBreakMeeting resumed at 10:10AMPresentation - DTE Power via the MDI - G. Vergnaud, R. Gass, R. Jaeger, AlcatelPresentation - Consideration in selecting feeding voltage/current Amir Lehr, YairDarshan, Avinoam, Levy - PowerDsinePresentation - Powering and discovery Alternatives - Arlan Anderson, NortelPresentation - Proposal to Move forward - Chris Cullin – Cisco SystemsPresentation - Consensus Proposal for DTE power via the MDI - Dan Dove, HP
`
`Page 4 of 8
`
`CHRIMAR 2042
`
`
`
`Lunch BreakMeeting resumed at 1:20PMMotion 1: All technical motions which are passed from this time forward, unlessspecifically excluded in the wording of the motion shall be incorporated into thedocument entitled 802.3 requirements which was created at the March Plenary. Theeditor is to maintain this document and update it within one week of the end of themeetingMoved: Michael McCormackSecond: Arlen AndersonTechnical: Not ProceduralY:44N:0A:2Time: 1:25PMMotion PassesMotion 2: The standard for DTE power distribution will use pairs associated with pins 4-5, and 7-8 as the primary pairs for distributing power over the MDI.Moved: Mike NootbaarSecond: Amir LehrTechnical: Yes 75%Y: 32N: 14A: 6Time:2:11Motion FailsMotion to table this motion until after Dan Dove Presentation. Yes:24No:14Time:1:30Motion PassesMotion 3: It is an objective that the DTE shall be required to accept power from both the12,36 and the 45,78 pair-sets with the requirement that those pair-sets both use thesame method of detection.Moved: Dan DoveSecond: Robert LoveTechnical: yes 75%Y: 27N: 21A: 6Time:2:03PMMotion FailsMotion 4: 802.3af systems shall distribute DC PowerMoved: Michael McCormackSecond: Bill QuackenbushTechnical: yes 75%Y: 53N: 0A: 2Time: 2:15PMMotion PassesMotion 5: Move it is an objective to come up with one and only one discovery method.Moved: Robert LoveSecond: Robert MuirTechnical: yes 75%Y: 31N: 11 A: 7Time: 2:32
`
`Page 5 of 8
`
`CHRIMAR 2042
`
`
`
`Due to the closeness of the vote a recount was takenY: 31N: 11 A: 11Time: 2:34Motion FailsMotion 6: Move: If both pair sets may be used for powering, Midspan shall supply poweron 45,78 - Supplying power on pins 12,36 from the midspan is for a later revision of thestandard.Moved: Bob LoveSecond: Don PannellTechnical: Yes 75%Y: 28N: 4A: 5Time: 2:55PMMotion PassesMotion 7: 802.3af proceed with the development of a low frequency, low energycommon mode detection method.Moved: Dan DoveSecond: Amir LehrTechnical: Yes 75%Y: 33N: 8A: 4Time: 3:05 PMMotion PassesMotion 8: The transmission of data across transformers placed in mid-span insertions isoutside of the scope of this task force and shall not be an objective.Moved: Ralph AnderssonSecond: Robert MuirTechnical: Yes 75%Y:10N:18A: 13Time: 3:39PMMotion FailsThe discussion on Motion 8 spawned a presentation:Presentation - Physical Layer Topology considerations for DTE power over the MDI -Sterling Vaden - Superior Modular ProductsDiscussion of cable modeling and connector issues such as loss, number etc. Patchcord issues. Insertion and return lossMotion 9: That it be an objective of the 802.3af task force to determine the optimalmethod to apply power at the “mid-span” and” DCE end” to minimize data-pathimpairments at a reasonable cost.Amendment: substitute “DCE end” for the word “Mid-Span”Moved : NormSeconded: Chris CullinWithdrawn, added as friendly by D. DoveMoved: Dan DoveSecond: Ralph AnderssonTechnical: Yes 75%Y: 26N: 3A: 12Time: 3:57PMMotion Passes
`
`Page 6 of 8
`
`CHRIMAR 2042
`
`
`
`Motion 10: The 802.3af task force shall consider 1000BASE-T support only for “DCE-end” power insertions.Moved: Ralph AnderssonSecond: James PolkTechnical: Yes 75%Y: 6N: 26A: 11Time: 4:05PMMotion FailsMotion 11: If it can be shown that the DTE support of both sets 1236 and 4578 is bothtechnically and economically feasible, the objective is to require that the DTE supportboth.Moved: Mike NootbaarSecond: Bob LoveTechnical: Yes 75%Y: 23N: 16A: 3Time: 4:15PMMotion FailsMotion 12: That DTE must be able to accept power on Pairs 4-5, 7-8 and be optionallyavailable on Pairs 1-2, 3-6Moved: Nick StapletonSecond: Arlen AndersonTechnical: Yes 75%Y: 7N: 29A: 5Time: 4:30PMMotion FailsMike McCormack (editor 802.3af) talked about the need to progress on a draft of thespecification. He intends to include straw poll information even though it has not beenapproved. A draft will be available by the next meeting.Action Item for 802.3af:Tutorial at next Plenary: A 1 hour presentation followed by a ½ hour Q&ARoger Karam, Carl Nakamura, Ralph Andersson and Bob Leonowich have volunteeredto do the presentation.Geoff Thompson, Steve Carlson, Roger, Karam, Carl Nakamura and Henry Hinrichs tohandle Q&A.Motion 13: That we accept the powering of the DTE via either sets of wire pairs (1-2, 3-6 and 4-5, 7-8), in anticipation of the detailed technical and economic feasibility of eachhaving been shown prior to the Working Group Ballot.Moved: David LawSecond: Roger KaramTechnical: Yes 75%Y: 32N: 4A: 3Time: 5:27PMMotion PassesMotion 14: To approve minutes from Albuquerque.Moved: Steve CarlsonSecond: Tom DineenTechnical: noMotion Passed by acclimation. Time: 5:30PM
`
`Page 7 of 8
`
`CHRIMAR 2042
`
`
`
`Liaison Letter from Bob Bell chair TR41.4Motion 15: Send a response to TR41.4Moved: Arlen AndersonSecond: Tom DineenTechnical: NoMotion Passes by acclamationTime: 5:40PMMotion to adjournMoved: Steve CarlsonSecond: Karl NakamuraTechnical: NoMotion Passed by acclimationTime: 5:41PM
`
`Page 8 of 8
`
`CHRIMAR 2042
`
`
Accessing this document will incur an additional charge of $.
After purchase, you can access this document again without charge.
Accept $ Charge
Still Working On It
This document is taking longer than usual to download. This can happen if we need to contact the court directly to obtain the document and their servers are running slowly.
Give it another minute or two to complete, and then try the refresh button.
A few More Minutes ... Still Working
It can take up to 5 minutes for us to download a document if the court servers are running slowly.
Thank you for your continued patience.
This document could not be displayed.
We could not find this document within its docket. Please go back to the docket page and check the link. If that does not work, go back to the docket and refresh it to pull the newest information.
Your account does not support viewing this document.
You need a Paid Account to view this document. Click here to change your account type.
Your account does not support viewing this document.
Set your membership
status to view this document.
With a Docket Alarm membership, you'll
get a whole lot more, including:
- Up-to-date information for this case.
- Email alerts whenever there is an update.
- Full text search for other cases.
- Get email alerts whenever a new case matches your search.
One Moment Please
The filing “” is large (MB) and is being downloaded.
Please refresh this page in a few minutes to see if the filing has been downloaded. The filing will also be emailed to you when the download completes.
Your document is on its way!
If you do not receive the document in five minutes, contact support at support@docketalarm.com.
Sealed Document
We are unable to display this document, it may be under a court ordered seal.
If you have proper credentials to access the file, you may proceed directly to the court's system using your government issued username and password.
Access Government Site
