`
` NORTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA
`
` OAKLAND DIVISION
`
`ANCORA TECHNOLOGIES, INC,
`
` Plaintiff,
`
` vs. No. C-11-6357-YGR
`
`APPLE INC.,
`
` Defendant.
`
`__________________________________
`
`APPLE INC.,
`
` Counterclaim Plaintiff,
`
` vs.
`
`ANCORA TECHNOLOGIES, INC.,
`
` Counterclaim Defendant.
`
`__________________________________
`
` Videotaped Deposition of MIKI MULLOR,
`
` Taken at 1000 Town Center, 22nd Floor,
`
` Southfield, Michigan, commencing at
`
` 9:04 a.m., Thursday, October 15, 2015,
`
` before Kathy Adkins, CSR-4697, CRR,
`
` RMR, RPR, B.A.
`
`JOB No. 2153499
`
`PAGES 1 - 262
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4 5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`866 299-5127
`
`Page 1
`
`Apple Inc. Exhibit 1007 Page 1
`
`
`
`A P P E A R A N C E S :
`
`A p p e a r i n g o n b e h a l f o f t h e P l a i n t i f f
`
`a n d C o u n t e r c l a i m D e f e n d a n t .
`
`B Y : J O H N L E R O Y
`
` M A R C L O R E L L I
`
`B r o o k s K u s h m a n
`
`1 0 0 0 T o w n C e n t e r
`
`2 2 n d F l o o r
`
`S o u t h f i e l d , M i c h i g a n 4 8 0 7 5
`
`2 4 8 . 3 5 8 . 4 4 0 0
`
`j l e r o y @ b r o o k s k u s h m a n . c o m
`
`m l o r e l l i @ b r o o k s k u s h m a n . c o m
`
`A p p e a r i n g o n b e h a l f o f t h e D e f e n d a n t a n d
`
`C o u n t e r c l a i m P l a i n t i f f .
`
`B Y : R I C H A R D S . J . H U N G
`
`M o r r i s o n & F o e r s t e r , L L P
`
`4 2 5 M a r k e t S t r e e t
`
`S a n F r a n c i s c o , C a l i f o r n i a 9 4 1 0 5
`
`4 1 5 . 2 6 8 . 7 0 0 0
`
`r h u n g @ m o f o . c o m
`
`1
`
`2 3
`
`4
`
`5 6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`1 0
`
`1 1
`
`1 2
`
`1 3
`
`1 4
`
`1 5
`
`1 6
`
`1 7
`
`1 8
`
`1 9
`
`2 0
`
`2 1
`
`2 2
`
`2 3
`
`2 4
`
`2 5
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`866 299-5127
`
`Page 2
`
`Apple Inc. Exhibit 1007 Page 2
`
`
`
`A p p e a r i n g o n b e h a l f o f t h e D e f e n d a n t a n d
`
`C o u n t e r c l a i m P l a i n t i f f .
`
`B Y : J O S H U A A . H A R T M A N
`
`M o r r i s o n F o e r s t e r
`
`2 0 0 0 P e n n s y l v a n i a A v e n u e , N . W .
`
`S u i t e 6 0 0 0
`
`W a s h i n g t o n , D . C . 2 0 0 0 6
`
`2 0 2 . 8 8 7 . 8 7 7 5
`
`j h a r t m a n @ m o f o . c o m
`
`A L S O P R E S E N T :
`
`S h a w n C a p r o n - V i d e o T e c h n i c i a n
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3 4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`1 0
`
`1 1
`
`1 2
`
`1 3
`
`1 4
`
`1 5
`
`1 6
`
`1 7
`
`1 8
`
`1 9
`
`2 0
`
`2 1
`
`2 2
`
`2 3
`
`2 4
`
`2 5
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`866 299-5127
`
`Page 3
`
`Apple Inc. Exhibit 1007 Page 3
`
`
`
` T A B L E O F C O N T E N T S
`
`W I T N E S S P A G E
`
`M I K I M U L L O R
`
` E X A M I N A T I O N
`
` B Y M R . H U N G : 1 1
`
`1
`
`2 3 4
`
`5
`
`6 7 8
`
`9
`
`1 0
`
`1 1
`
`1 2
`
`1 3
`
`1 4
`
`1 5
`
`1 6
`
`1 7
`
`1 8
`
`1 9
`
`2 0
`
`2 1
`
`2 2
`
`2 3
`
`2 4
`
`2 5
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`866 299-5127
`
`Page 4
`
`Apple Inc. Exhibit 1007 Page 4
`
`
`
` E X H I B I T S
`
`N U M B E R P A G E
`
`( E x h i b i t s a t t a c h e d t o t r a n s c r i p t . )
`
`E X H I B I T 1 1 2
`
`L i n k e d I n P r o f i l e
`
`E X H I B I T 2 2 7
`
`M S - A N C 0 0 4 5 5 5 - 5 5 8
`
`R e s u m e
`
`E X H I B I T 3 3 1
`
`' 9 4 1 P a t e n t
`
`E X H I B I T 4 3 4
`
`' 9 4 1 U . S . P a t e n t A p p l i c a t i o n
`
`E X H I B I T 5 3 8
`
`I n t e r v i e w S u m m a r y r e ' 9 4 1 P a t e n t
`
`E X H I B I T 6 3 9
`
`' 9 4 1 P a t e n t A m e n d m e n t s
`
`E X H I B I T 7 4 1
`
`" N o t i c e o f A l l o w a n c e "
`
`E X H I B I T 8 4 2
`
`A N C 1 - 7 ' 9 4 1 P a t e n t
`
`E X H I B I T 9 5 9
`
`A N C 1 7 8 - 1 8 5 W h i t e P a p e r
`
`1
`
`2 3
`
`4
`
`5 6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`1 0
`
`1 1
`
`1 2
`
`1 3
`
`1 4
`
`1 5
`
`1 6
`
`1 7
`
`1 8
`
`1 9
`
`2 0
`
`2 1
`
`2 2
`
`2 3
`
`2 4
`
`2 5
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`866 299-5127
`
`Page 5
`
`Apple Inc. Exhibit 1007 Page 5
`
`
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`1 0
`
`1 1
`
`1 2
`
`1 3
`
`1 4
`
`1 5
`
`1 6
`
`1 7
`
`1 8
`
`1 9
`
`2 0
`
`2 1
`
`2 2
`
`2 3
`
`2 4
`
`2 5
`
`E X H I B I T 1 0 6 7
`
`A N C 0 0 6 8 1 8 - 8 3 9
`
`T e c h n o l o g y O v e r v i e w W h i t e P a p e r
`
`E X H I B I T 1 1 7 8
`
`A P L 0 0 0 0 9 9 8 0 - 0 2 8
`
`D M I S p e c
`
`E X H I B I T 1 2 7 9
`
`M S - A N C 0 0 1 5 7 4 - 6 3 8
`
`B e e b l e m a r k e t i n g d o c u m e n t
`
`E X H I B I T 1 3 9 3
`
`A N C 0 4 1 5 1 9 - 5 2 0
`
`6 / 1 1 / 2 0 0 2 E m a i l
`
`E X H I B I T 1 4 9 4
`
`A N C 0 1 3 3 0 8 - 3 4 1
`
`B e e b l e f i n a n c i a l p r o j e c t i o n s
`
`E X H I B I T 1 5 9 9
`
`A N C 6 0 0 0 0 - 0 4 6
`
`B e e b l e b u s i n e s s p l a n
`
`E X H I B I T 1 6 1 0 8
`
`A N C 6 5 5 - 6 8 8
`
`" S i l i c o n V a l l e y C l u s t e r S t r a t e g y W o r k
`
`P l a n "
`
`E X H I B I T 1 7 1 2 6
`
`M J 0 3 8 5 - 3 8 7
`
`C o m p l a i n t f o r R e l i e f U n d e r S e c t i o n 2 2 5
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`866 299-5127
`
`Page 6
`
`Apple Inc. Exhibit 1007 Page 6
`
`
`
`E X H I B I T 1 8 1 2 9
`
`M J 0 0 8 0 - 0 8 9
`
`M e m o r a n d u m o f U n d e r s t a n d i n g
`
`E X H I B I T 1 9 1 3 2
`
`A N C 6 0 0 4 7 - 1 7 6
`
`M i n u t e B o o k , C e r t i f i c a t e B o o k a n d S t o c k
`
`L e d g e r o f A n c o r a T e c h n o l o g i e s
`
`E X H I B I T 2 0 1 3 6
`
`A N C 0 0 8 5 2 7 - 5 3 1
`
`A n c o r a O n l i n e 2 0 0 5 - 2 0 0 7 B u s i n e s s P l a n
`
`E X H I B I T 2 1 1 4 0
`
`A N C 0 0 8 5 9 9 - 6 0 9
`
`A l l i a n c e A g r e e m e n t
`
`E X H I B I T 2 2 1 5 5
`
`C o m p l a i n t M i c r o s o f t v M u l l o r
`
`E X H I B I T 2 3 1 6 2
`
`A N C A 9 6 1 - 1 0 2 5
`
`S e t t l e m e n t A g r e e m e n t
`
`E X H I B I T 2 4 1 7 8
`
`M S - A N C 0 0 0 8 1 3 - 8 1 5
`
`2 / 1 1 / 2 0 0 0 3 E m a i l c h a i n
`
`E X H I B I T 2 5 1 8 0
`
`A N C 7 4 4 - 7 6 3
`
`S e t t l e m e n t A g r e e m e n t a n d M u t u a l R e l e a s e
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`1 0
`
`1 1
`
`1 2
`
`1 3
`
`1 4
`
`1 5
`
`1 6
`
`1 7
`
`1 8
`
`1 9
`
`2 0
`
`2 1
`
`2 2
`
`2 3
`
`2 4
`
`2 5
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`866 299-5127
`
`Page 7
`
`Apple Inc. Exhibit 1007 Page 7
`
`
`
`E X H I B I T 2 6 1 8 8
`
`" D e c l a r a t i o n f o r U n i t e d S t a t e s P a t e n t
`
`A p p l i c a t i o n , P o w e r o f A t t o r n e y ,
`
`D e s i g n a t i o n o f C o r r e s p o n d e n c e A d d r e s s "
`
`E X H I B I T 2 7 1 9 1
`
`A P L 0 0 0 0 6 8 8 7 - 8 9 3
`
`" A S e c u r e a n d R e l i a b l e B o o t s t r a p
`
`A r c h i t e c t u r e "
`
`E X H I B I T 2 8 1 9 3
`
`A P L 0 0 0 0 9 4 0 3 - 4 0 8
`
`U . S . P a t e n t N o : 6 , 2 0 9 , 0 9 9
`
`E X H I B I T 2 9 2 0 5
`
`C - F i l e
`
`E X H I B I T 3 0 2 0 6
`
`S o u r c e C o d e C o n t r o l F i l e
`
`E X H I B I T 3 1 2 0 7
`
`A N C 0 2 7 9 5 8 - 9 6 7
`
`S o u r c e C o d e F i l e " B I O S "
`
`E X H I B I T 3 2 2 0 8
`
`m y b i o s . h h e a d e r f i l e
`
`E X H I B I T 3 3 2 0 9
`
`d m i . h h e a d e r f i l e
`
`E X H I B I T 3 4 2 1 1
`
`m y b i o s . c f i l e
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`1 0
`
`1 1
`
`1 2
`
`1 3
`
`1 4
`
`1 5
`
`1 6
`
`1 7
`
`1 8
`
`1 9
`
`2 0
`
`2 1
`
`2 2
`
`2 3
`
`2 4
`
`2 5
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`866 299-5127
`
`Page 8
`
`Apple Inc. Exhibit 1007 Page 8
`
`
`
`E X H I B I T 3 5 2 1 5
`
`M a p d e v . c f i l e
`
`E X H I B I T 3 6 2 1 6
`
`B I O S C A N . C P P f i l e
`
`E X H I B I T 3 7 2 2 1
`
`A N C 0 2 6 2 6 6
`
`s c r e e n s h o t
`
`E X H I B I T 3 8 2 2 1
`
`A N C 0 2 6 2 6 7 - 2 6 9
`
`s c r e e n s h o t
`
`E X H I B I T 3 9 2 4 9
`
`A N C 0 3 5 2 6 2 - 2 7 4
`
`d r a f t p r e s e n t a t i o n
`
`E X H I B I T 4 0 2 5 3
`
`A N C A 5 6 6
`
`1 / 1 0 / 2 0 0 3 l e t t e r
`
`E X H I B I T 4 1 2 5 5
`
`A N C 0 3 6 4 1 7 - 4 2 9
`
`5 / 1 1 / 2 0 0 4 E m a i l w i t h a t t a c h m e n t
`
`E X H I B I T 4 2 2 5 5
`
`A N C A 5 6 7
`
`5 / 1 0 / 2 0 0 4 l e t t e r
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`1 0
`
`1 1
`
`1 2
`
`1 3
`
`1 4
`
`1 5
`
`1 6
`
`1 7
`
`1 8
`
`1 9
`
`2 0
`
`2 1
`
`2 2
`
`2 3
`
`2 4
`
`2 5
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`866 299-5127
`
`Page 9
`
`Apple Inc. Exhibit 1007 Page 9
`
`
`
`Southfield, Michigan
`
`Thursday, October 15, 2015
`
`9:04 a.m.
`
` VIDEO TECHNICIAN: We are now on the
`
` record. Please note that the microphones are
`
` sensitive and may pick up whispering or private
`
` conversations. Please turn off all cellphones or
`
` place them away from the microphones as they can
`
` interfere with this deposition's audio. Recording
`
` will continue until all parties agree to go off the
`
` record.
`
` My name is Shawn Capron, representing
`
` Veritext. The date today is October 15, 2015, and the
`
` time is approximately 9:04 a.m. This deposition is
`
` being held at 1000 Town Center, Suite 2200, located in
`
` Southfield, Michigan, and is being taken for counsel
`
` for the Defendant and Counter Claimant.
`
` The caption is Ancora Technologies, Inc.,
`
` versus Apple Inc. This case is being held in the
`
` United States District Court, Northern District of
`
` California, Oakland Division. The case number is
`
` C-11-6357-YGR. The name of the witness is Miki
`
` Mullor.
`
` At this time the attorneys present in the
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`866 299-5127
`
`Page 10
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4 5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Apple Inc. Exhibit 1007 Page 10
`
`
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` room and everyone attending remotely will identify
`
` themselves and the parties they represent. Our court
`
` reporter, Kathy Adkins, representing Veritext, will
`
` swear in the witness and we can proceed.
`
` MR. LEROY: John LeRoy, counsel for Ancora.
`
` MR. LORELLI: Marc Lorelli for Ancora.
`
` MR. HUNG: Richard Hung of Morrison and
`
` Foerster for Apple. With me today is Josh Hartman
`
` also of Morrison and Foerster.
`
` MIKI MULLOR,
`
` was thereupon called as a witness herein, and after
`
` having first been duly sworn to testify to the truth,
`
` the whole truth and nothing but the truth, was
`
` examined and testified as follows:
`
` EXAMINATION
`
`BY MR. HUNG:
`
`Q. Good morning, Mr. Mullor.
`
`A. Good morning.
`
`Q. Could you state your full name for the record.
`
`A. Full name is Miki Moshe Mullor.
`
`Q. And where do you currently reside?
`
`A. I live in Sammamish, Washington.
`
`Q. You understand that you're here today testifying under
`
` oath?
`
`A. I do.
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`866 299-5127
`
`Page 11
`
`Apple Inc. Exhibit 1007 Page 11
`
`
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Q. Do you recognize Exhibit 4?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Q. What is Exhibit 4?
`
`A. It looks like something to do with filing the patent
`
` in the United States.
`
`Q. Does Exhibit 4 look to you to be the U.S. application
`
` that resulted in your '941 Patent?
`
`A. I haven't gone through it recently, but I have to, I
`
` have no reason to suspect otherwise; so I have to
`
` think so.
`
`Q. There was an interview that occurred with the Patent
`
` Office while prosecution of the '941 Patent was
`
` ongoing, correct?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Q. And you participated in that interview, correct?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Q. You attended a meeting at the Patent Office in
`
` Washington, D.C., correct?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Q. What did you do at that meeting?
`
`A. It's many years ago. I answered a few questions the
`
` examiner had.
`
`Q. Do you recall being deposed on this issue during the
`
` Microsoft litigation?
`
`A. Must have.
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`866 299-5127
`
`Page 35
`
`Apple Inc. Exhibit 1007 Page 12
`
`
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Q. Do you recall testifying that you answered a question
`
` that was posed by the examiner during the interview?
`
` MR. LEROY: Objection to the form of the
`
` question.
`
`BY MR. HUNG:
`
`Q. I'm asking you if that's your memory.
`
`A. I don't remember the details. As I say, I remember I
`
` did talk to him, did answer questions.
`
`Q. As you sit here today, can you remember anything about
`
` what you discussed with the examiner during the
`
` interview?
`
`A. I don't remember the details but it was -- it wasn't
`
` part of the formal exchange that the attorneys did. I
`
` think it was more general questions about how would
`
` you use this technology, or I can't remember the
`
` details.
`
`Q. You didn't have a formal role at this interview,
`
` correct?
`
`A. Well, I was the inventor. I was there in the
`
` interview. So I was -- I wasn't a visitor.
`
`Q. You didn't have a formal speaking role that was
`
` assigned to you, correct?
`
` MR. LEROY: Objection to the form of the
`
` question.
`
`A. I think I was at a formal role being the inventor.
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`866 299-5127
`
`Page 36
`
`Apple Inc. Exhibit 1007 Page 13
`
`
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` There was a reason I was in that interview.
`
`BY MR. HUNG:
`
`Q. Did you actually have a speaking role -- do you recall
`
` being asked during your Microsoft deposition whether
`
` you actually had a speaking role during the 15-minute
`
` interview?
`
`A. I don't remember the details.
`
`Q. So you don't recall testifying that no, you did not
`
` have a speaking role during the 15-minute interview?
`
`A. I don't recall the details.
`
`Q. And you don't recall saying that, quote, you didn't
`
` have a formal role and you were more tagging along to
`
` it?
`
`A. If I said so, it must be right. This was -- that
`
` interview took place probably 14 years ago. The
`
` Microsoft deposition took place seven years ago? So
`
` my memory has not become any better over the years.
`
`Q. So let me re-ask the question.
`
` Do you recall whether you had a formal role
`
` at the 15-minute interview that occurred before the
`
` Patent Office?
`
` MR. LEROY: Objection to the form of the
`
` question.
`
`A. I don't know what "formal" means in the context of
`
` that interview. I was the inventor, the coinventor of
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`866 299-5127
`
`Page 37
`
`Apple Inc. Exhibit 1007 Page 14
`
`
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Q. And those amendments are shown in Exhibit 6, correct?
`
`A. Looks like it, yes.
`
`Q. And the amendments to the claims, including Claim 1,
`
` included adding language referring to an agent,
`
` correct?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Q. In fact, we see that four pages from the end of
`
` Exhibit 6 where you see amendments to Claim 1,
`
` correct?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Q. When was the last time you reviewed your '941 Patent?
`
`A. I don't remember.
`
`Q. Have you reviewed it in the last five years?
`
`A. Maybe. Look, I work for -- full time for Jobaline.
`
` Jobaline is my business. It takes my full attention,
`
` 120 percent of the day; so whether I ever looked at
`
` this patent in the last five years or not, I don't
`
` know, hard to say.
`
`Q. You understand that the company of which you were the
`
` sole 100 percent shareholder has filed suit against
`
` Apple, correct?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Q. And you're seeking damages from Apple in this case,
`
` correct?
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`866 299-5127
`
`Page 40
`
`Apple Inc. Exhibit 1007 Page 15
`
`
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Q. Have you seen this document before?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Q. And the amendments relating to the word "agent" were
`
` entered such that the issued patent refers to an
`
` agent, correct?
`
`A. Yes.
`
` MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION
`
` EXHIBIT 8
`
` 9:57 a.m.
`
`BY MR. HUNG:
`
`Q. Do you recognize Exhibit 8?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Q. What's Exhibit 8?
`
`A. It's the '941 Patent.
`
`Q. And this patent lists you as an inventor, right?
`
`A. Yep. Yes.
`
`Q. If you look at Claim 1, you'll see that there's a
`
` reference to an agent. What is an agent, Mr. Mullor?
`
` MR. LEROY: Objection to the form of the
`
` question. Legal conclusion.
`
` Go ahead, you can answer.
`
`A. An agent is a program.
`
`BY MR. HUNG:
`
`Q. I'll represent to you, Mr. Mullor, that with the
`
` exception of the claims of the '941 Patent, the word
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`866 299-5127
`
`Page 42
`
`Apple Inc. Exhibit 1007 Page 16
`
`
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` "agent" doesn't appear anywhere in any of the other
`
` columns of the patent, does that sound right to you?
`
`A. I would agree.
`
` MR. LEROY: Objection to the form of the
`
` statement.
`
`BY MR. HUNG:
`
`Q. Whose idea was it to add the word "agent" to the
`
` claims of the '941 Patent?
`
` MR. LEROY: Objection to the form of the
`
` question.
`
`A. I don't recall specifically. It was after the
`
` interview at the Patent Office. I don't know who came
`
` up with that, was it the attorney or the examiner, but
`
` I was not present when that was discussed.
`
`BY MR. HUNG:
`
`Q. So you think Mr. Vlaiko came up with it?
`
`A. No.
`
`Q. Do you see that Claim 1 of the patent refers to a
`
` verification structure?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Q. As the inventor of the '941 Patent, what's your
`
` understanding of what a verification -- of what a
`
` verification structure is?
`
` MR. LEROY: Objection to the form of the
`
` question, legal conclusion.
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`866 299-5127
`
`Page 43
`
`Apple Inc. Exhibit 1007 Page 17
`
`
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`BY MR. HUNG:
`
`Q. Including the reexamination certificate, sir, the '941
`
` Patent is nine pages, is that fair?
`
`A. Sounds fair.
`
`Q. Could you take a minute and read Claim 1 silently in
`
` your head and let me know when you're ready.
`
`A. Go ahead.
`
`Q. Ready?
`
`A. Yeah.
`
`Q. You see that Claim 1 refers to restricting software
`
` operation within a license for use with a computer.
`
` Do you see that?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Q. You weren't the first person to think of restricting
`
` software operation based on a license, were you?
`
` MR. LEROY: Object to the form of the
`
` question.
`
`A. It's in the context of the patent these words have a
`
` meaning, so if you want to ask me outside the context
`
` of the patent, if I'm the first inventor ever dealt
`
` with restricting software? No, of course not.
`
` Actually, we talk about it in the background of the --
`
` of the invention.
`
`BY MR. HUNG:
`
`Q. And background of the invention, you agree that there
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`866 299-5127
`
`Page 50
`
`Apple Inc. Exhibit 1007 Page 18
`
`
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` were prior art methods of restricting software
`
` according to a license, right?
`
` MR. LEROY: Object to the form of the
`
` question.
`
`A. I don't know if people did exactly what we did in
`
` terms of using the word "license," what it means in
`
` our patent. In general speaking, yes, in the market
`
` there were inventions that were used to restrict
`
` software. How they did it specifically, and whether
`
` they used the license the way we describe it, I don't
`
` know.
`
`BY MR. HUNG:
`
`Q. You would agree with me that when you filed for your
`
` patent application in 1998, there were other companies
`
` out there that were selling products that restricted
`
` software operation based on licenses.
`
` MR. LEROY: Objection to form.
`
`A. What I would agree is that there were companies out
`
` there that had technologies and products that help
`
` software companies restrict the use of their software.
`
`BY MR. HUNG:
`
`Q. Before you filed for this patent.
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Q. BIOS, you're not the first person to invent a BIOS,
`
` are you?
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`866 299-5127
`
`Page 51
`
`Apple Inc. Exhibit 1007 Page 19
`
`
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`A. I don't believe I invented a BIOS.
`
`Q. BIOSES existed before your application was filed,
`
` right?
`
`A. Most certainly did.
`
`Q. And those BIOSES had erasable nonvolatile memory
`
` areas, right?
`
` MR. LEROY: Object to the form of the
`
` question.
`
`A. Some BIOSES had erasable writable memory area, yes.
`
`BY MR. HUNG:
`
`Q. Before you filed your application.
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Q. The idea of a selecting a program that resides in
`
` volatile memory, you weren't the first person to think
`
` of that, were you?
`
` MR. LEROY: Objection to the form of the
`
` question.
`
`A. No.
`
`BY MR. HUNG:
`
`Q. The concept of an agent, a program as you said, you're
`
` not the first person to think of the use of an agent,
`
` are you?
`
` MR. LEROY: Objection to the form of the
`
` question.
`
`A. The -- no, I'm not -- I did not invent programs,
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`866 299-5127
`
`Page 52
`
`Apple Inc. Exhibit 1007 Page 20
`
`
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` correct.
`
`BY MR. HUNG:
`
`Q. And you see that the claim refers to a verification
`
` structure accommodating data that includes at least
`
` one license record, do you see that?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Q. The idea of a structure accommodating data, you're not
`
` the first person to think of that, are you?
`
`A. No.
`
` MR. LEROY: Objection to the form of the
`
` question.
`
`BY MR. HUNG:
`
`Q. The idea of verifying a program based on a license
`
` that's stored in memory, you're not the first person
`
` to think of that, are you?
`
` MR. LEROY: Objection to the form of the
`
` question.
`
`A. The word "memory" is very broad. I'm the first one,
`
` me and Julian were the first one to think about
`
` verifying a program using a license or data that was
`
` stored in memory area of the BIOS, of the erasable
`
` nonvolatile memory of the BIOS.
`
`BY MR. HUNG:
`
`Q. Were you the first person to think of the idea of
`
` verifying a program based on a license that is stored
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`866 299-5127
`
`Page 53
`
`Apple Inc. Exhibit 1007 Page 21
`
`
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` in any kind of memory?
`
` MR. LEROY: Objection to the form of the
`
` question. Asked and answered.
`
`A. I already answered the question.
`
`BY MR. HUNG:
`
`Q. I'm not limiting the question to the BIOS memory.
`
` Were you the first person to think of
`
` verifying a program based on a license that was stored
`
` somewhere?
`
` MR. LEROY: Objection to the form of the
`
` question.
`
`A. As I said, I was the first one with Julian. We were
`
` the first ones to think of verifying a program with
`
` license that we stored in the BIOS of the computer.
`
` Did other people do other things? Yes.
`
`BY MR. HUNG:
`
`Q. That's what I'm trying to understand.
`
` Before you and Julian, Mr. Vlaiko, filed
`
` for your patent, there are other people in the world
`
` that were verifying a program based on a license that
`
` was stored not in BIOS memory?
`
`A. Yes. And if you recall the tutorial here we had at
`
` the court, I gave very extensive background on how I
`
` came into even thinking about the space that this
`
` invention is in, and it was, it came out of
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`866 299-5127
`
`Page 54
`
`Apple Inc. Exhibit 1007 Page 22
`
`
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` frustration with other technologies that were
`
` available back then. It came out of a need that I had
`
` to protect a software that I was developing unrelated
`
` to this patent.
`
` MR. HUNG: Move to strike everything after
`
` "yes" as nonresponsive. This is a formal thing for
`
` the Court when the Court is ruling upon this. I'm not
`
` expecting you to respond to my note now.
`
` MR. LEROY: I appreciate your expectation
`
` but I object to your note as improper.
`
`BY MR. HUNG:
`
`Q. Mr. Mullor, putting aside the tutorial -- okay? --
`
` can you put it aside for a second?
`
`A. Sure.
`
`Q. I'm just asking you whether you're the first person to
`
` invent with Mr. Vlaiko the idea of verifying a program
`
` based on a license that's stored in somewhere else
`
` other than BIOS memory.
`
` MR. LEROY: Object to the form of the
`
` question.
`
`A. As I said, it's a lot easier to answer what we did
`
` invent, not what we did not invent, and I don't know
`
` what other people did, because I don't know how they
`
` specifically implemented their inventions.
`
` I know that there were other products in
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`866 299-5127
`
`Page 55
`
`Apple Inc. Exhibit 1007 Page 23
`
`
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` the market back then that were protecting software. I
`
` did not go into the details of how they're doing it.
`
` I do know they did not use the BIOS.
`
`BY MR. HUNG:
`
`Q. Verifying programs, as a general concept, you didn't
`
` invent that, right?
`
` MR. LEROY: Object to the form of the
`
` question.
`
`A. Verifying programs is -- there are technologies out
`
` there that verify programs. There are many
`
` technologies to verify programs. Each vendor had
`
` their own approaches to it and did I invent what
`
` they've done? No, obviously.
`
` So back then you had little dongles, a
`
` little piece of hardware you attach to a computer, and
`
` you would verify a program with that. Did I invent
`
` that? No, absolutely not. There were software
`
` products that would write some kind of files, data on
`
` to the hard drive of the computer. Did I invent that?
`
` No.
`
`BY MR. HUNG:
`
`Q. The idea of acting on a program if you can verify it,
`
` you didn't invent that, did you?
`
` MR. LEROY: Object to the form of the
`
` question.
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`866 299-5127
`
`Page 56
`
`Apple Inc. Exhibit 1007 Page 24
`
`
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`A. The -- first of all, I don't know if I like the word
`
` "idea." I think, again, if you look at the different
`
` products out there that were available back then, even
`
` today, some of these products do actions that you
`
` would consider acting the way we describe it here in
`
` the patent.
`
` Obviously they were doing it before we
`
` filed for the patent, so I did not invent what they
`
` were doing.
`
`BY MR. HUNG:
`
`Q. Are you a cryptographer, Mr. Mullor?
`
`A. Am I a cryptographer? I don't think so. I would not
`
` consider myself a cryptographer.
`
`Q. Do you understand how RSA works?
`
`A. In general terms I do, yes.
`
`Q. Public key cryptography existed before you filed for
`
` your patent application, correct?
`
`A. Why.
`
`Q. You've heard of the digital standard specification,
`
` DSS?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Q. That existed before you filed your patent application,
`
` right?
`
`A. I don't know. I don't know when it was invented.
`
`Q. The idea of public private keys, you didn't invent
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`866 299-5127
`
`Page 57
`
`Apple Inc. Exhibit 1007 Page 25
`
`
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` 183 says, the kernel mode driver says "is responsible
`
` for maintaining Beeble licenses in the EEPROM," do you
`
` see that?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Q. Is that inaccurate?
`
`A. No.
`
`Q. And then subsequently at the same page, Ancora 183,
`
` this white paper refers to data location, do you see
`
` that?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Q. And it refers to a solution to this problem is to
`
` utilize a BIOS feature called DMI. Do you see that?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Q. What is DMI?
`
`A. DMI at least back then was a standard that enabled
`
` computer manufacturers to store data about which
`
` hardware components are connected to that computer,
`
` installed in that computer.
`
`Q. Is DMI something that you created?
`
`A. No.
`
`Q. Did Beeble create DMI?
`
`A. No.
`
`Q. Is it a specification?
`
`A. There is a specification, yes.
`
`Q. Do you know when DMI was created?
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`866 299-5127
`
`Page 65
`
`Apple Inc. Exhibit 1007 Page 26
`
`
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`A. I do not recall right now.
`
`Q. At the time that you wrote this white paper,
`
` Exhibit 9, did you know about DMI?
`
`A. Yes, of course, obviously, talking about it.
`
`Q. If you look at the next page there's a reference to
`
` EEPROM writing, do you see that?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Q. And it indicates "Beeble will attempt to write license
`
` data by utilizing the DMI function in 52h," I think.
`
` Correct?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Q. What does that mean?
`
`A. If I remember correctly, when -- before we filed for
`
` this patent, we built a prototype, and the prototype
`
` was to prove can we actually -- can this invention
`
` actually work, and we were looking for ways to write
`
` to the BIOS and, if I can remember correctly, we found
`
` out that there's a function in the DMI specification
`
` that if the BIOS has, not all BIOSES had this
`
` function, but if it has this function, we could
`
` repurpose it with special software to actually write
`
` data to the structure of the DMI.
`
` And when we built the prototype, if I
`
` remember correctly, we used that. Now, I cannot give
`
` you a hundred percent answer unless we go back to the
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`866 299-5127
`
`Page 66
`
`Apple Inc. Exhibit 1007 Page 27
`
`
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` code, but I'm pretty sure that's the reason it's here
`
` in this document.
`
` MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION
`
` EXHIBIT 10
`
` 10:50 a.m.
`
`BY MR. HUNG:
`
`Q. Mr. Mullor, do you recognize Exhibit 10?
`
`A. I don't have specific recollection but I'll give you
`
` the same answer as I gave you to the other white
`
` paper.
`
`Q. What is Exhibit 10?
`
`A. It's a technology overview white paper.
`
`Q. Did you author this document?
`
`A. Has my name on it. I have no reason to believe
`
` otherwise.
`
`Q. Is it a document that you wrote on or around
`
` September 2002?
`
`A. That's what the date says. I don't remember
`
` specifically writing this document because to be
`
` honest it's been a long, long time.
`
`Q. Your '941 Patent had issued as of the date of this
`
` document, September 2002, correct?
`
`A. Yes, it was issued in June 2002.
`
`Q. If you look at page three of this document, it refers
`
` to hardware stamping and also refers to the '941
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`866 299-5127
`
`Page 67
`
`Apple Inc. Exhibit 1007 Page 28
`
`
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`