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`Case 1:19-cv-11586-FDS Document 338-16 Filed 03/02/22 Page 2 of 58
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`Transcript of Maria S. Redin
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`Date: February 2, 2021
`Case: Philips North America -v- Fitbit, Inc.
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`Planet Depos
`Phone: 888.433.3767
`Email:: transcripts@planetdepos.com
`www.planetdepos.com
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`WORLDWIDE COURT REPORTING & LITIGATION TECHNOLOGY
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`

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`Case 1:19-cv-11586-FDS Document 338-16 Filed 03/02/22 Page 3 of 58
`Transcript of Maria S. Redin
`Conducted on February 2, 2021
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`EXAMINATION BY MS. FIFE..................... 6
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`EXAMINATION BY MS. MORAN.................... 203
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`EXAMINATION BY MR. OKANO.................... 218
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` UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
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` DISTRICT OF MASSACHUSETTS
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` _________________
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`PHILIPS NORTH AMERICA, LLC., )
` )
` Plaintiff, )
`vs. ) Case No.
` ) 1:19-cv-11586
` )
`FITBIT, INC., )
` )
` Defendant. )
`_______________________________)
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` REPORTER'S TRANSCRIPT
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`
`
` DEPOSITION OF
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` MARIA S. REDIN
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` TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 2, 2021
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` San Francisco, California
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`Reported by: Burgundy B. Ryan, CSR, RPR
` Certificate No. 11373
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` A P P E A R A N C E S
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`FOR THE PLAINTIFF:
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` FOLEY & LARDNER, LLP
` By: MICHELLE A. MORAN, Attorney at Law
` MOLLY HAYSSEN, Attorney at Law
` 777 East Wisconsin Avenue
` Milwaukee, Wisconsin 53202
` (414) 271-2400
` mmoran@foley.com
` mhayssen@foley.com
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`FOR THE DEFENDANT:
`
` PAUL HASTINGS, LLP
` By: BERKELEY FIFE, Attorney at Law
` DAVID OKANO, Attorney at Law
` 1117 S. California Avenue
` Palo Alto, California 94304
` (650) 320-1800
` davidokano@paulhastings.com
` berkeleyfife@paulhastings.com
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`ALSO PRESENT:
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` MIGUEL CONCEPCION, Videographer
` Planet Depos
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` BE IT REMEMBERED that, pursuant to Notice
`of Taking Deposition, and on Tuesday, February 2,
`2021, commencing at 9:23 a.m. PST thereof, at The San
`Francisco Mint, 88 5th Street, San Francisco,
`California, before me, Burgundy B. Ryan, a Certified
`Shorthand Reporter in and for the State of
`California, personally appeared
` MARIA S. REDIN,
`a witness called on behalf of DEFENDANT, pursuant to
`all applicable sections of the Federal Code of Civil
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`Procedure, and who, having been first duly sworn by
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`me to testify to the truth, was examined and
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`testified as follows:
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` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Good morning.
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` Here begins media number one in the
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`videotaped deposition of Maria Redin in the matter of
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`Philips North America versus Fitbit, Inc., in the
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`United States District Court, for the District of
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`Massachusetts, case number 1:19-cv-11586.
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` Today's date is February 2nd, 2021.
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` The time on the video monitor is 9:23 a.m.
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` The videographer today is
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`Miguel Concepcion, on behalf of Planet Depos.
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` This video deposition is taking place at
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`the San Francisco Mint, San Francisco, California,
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`Case 1:19-cv-11586-FDS Document 338-16 Filed 03/02/22 Page 4 of 58
`Transcript of Maria S. Redin
`Conducted on February 2, 2021
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`until the question is over before you finish
`speaking, please.
` And, also, let's try to use verbal answers
`instead of nonverbal such as shaking your head --
` A Yes.
` Q -- or nodding.
` Is there anything preventing you from being
`able to be honest, accurate, and provide complete
`answers today?
` A No.
` Q Are you taking any medications that would
`prevent you from being honest, accurate, or
`complete?
` A No.
` Q Do you have any health conditions that
`would prevent from you being honest, accurate, or
`complete?
` A No.
` Q Have you ever been deposed before?
` A Yes.
` Q How many times?
` A Once.
` Q Do you remember what the case was?
` A Yes. Yes.
` Q What was it?
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`94103.
` Would Counsel please voice identify
`themselves -- voice identify themselves and state
`whom you represent, beginning with the questioning
`attorney.
` MS. FIFE: My name is Berkeley Fife. I
`represent Fitbit, and I am from Paul Hastings.
` MR. OKANO: This is David Okano from
`Paul Hastings, also representing Fitbit, and we are
`also representing the witness, Ms. Maria Redin.
` I just want to make a note for the record
`that, you know, the set up of this courtroom is being
`done live and in person, but there is also a remote
`Zoom interface, and I -- and Counsel from Philips
`will identify themselves as are attending.
` And we also have a camera that is trained
`on the entire proceedings showing Fitbit's attorneys,
`Ms. Redin, and the videographer, and court reporter.
`And there is another camera that is trained solely on
`Ms. Redin.
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Would Counsel on the
`Zoom conference also introduce themselves?
` MS. MORAN: Good morning.
` This is Michelle Moran from Foley and
`Lardner, representing North Philips America, and I'm
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` A It was -- it was a similar case for -- that
`used my thesis as prior art. I -- I don't remember
`who the -- who the -- the two parties were.
` Q Do you remember when the deposition was,
`generally?
` A About five years ago I think.
` Q Okay. Ms. Redin, are you currently
`employed?
` A I am.
` Q And what do you do?
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` A I am a business and operations
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`consultant.
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` Q What kind of businesses do you consult?
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` A So I consult for, gosh, experiential
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`entertainment companies, I -- in the high growth,
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`sort of that arena, either startup space or in a high
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`growth moment.
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` Q And what type of services and consulting do
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`you provide them?
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` A So I usually come in and I help them
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`structure things like their -- sometimes it's their
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`accounting, sometimes it's their -- it's their --
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`gosh, their strategy and how to take in -- like once
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`they take in VC funding, how to allocate that in a
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`way that helps them grow quicker.
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`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
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`joined by my colleague, Molly Hayssen.
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Thank you.
` The court reporter today is Brooke Ryan, on
`behalf of Planet Depos.
` Would the reporter please swear in the
`witness?
` (Whereupon the witness was sworn.)
` THE WITNESS: I do.
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Counsel, you may
`proceed.
`EXAMINATION BY BERKELEY FIFE
` Q Good morning, Ms. Redin.
` A Good morning.
` Q Would you please state and spell your full
`name for the record?
` A Sure. My name is Maria Redin; M-a-r-i-a,
`middle initial S, last name Redin, R-e-d-i-n.
` Q And you are under oath today.
` Do you understand what that means?
` A Yes.
` Q Today I'll be asking you questions. If you
`don't understand a question, please let me know and I
`can ask it again.
` For Brooke's sake, let's try not to speak
`over each other. Let's wait until -- you know, wait
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`Case 1:19-cv-11586-FDS Document 338-16 Filed 03/02/22 Page 5 of 58
`Transcript of Maria S. Redin
`Conducted on February 2, 2021
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` Q How long have you been practicing
`consulting?
` A Gosh, probably about 12, 15 years.
` Q Let's talk a little bit about your
`education now.
` Can you provide a brief overview of your
`education since high school?
` A Sure.
` Once I left high school, I went to
`Massachusetts Institute of Technology for my
`Bachelor's Degree in Computer Science. I graduated
`in 1997.
` After that, I stayed at MIT for my Master's
`in Engineering in Computer Science in 1997. And then
`I stayed at the MIT Media Lab for a Master's in Media
`Arts and Sciences -- Media Arts and Sciences in 1999.
` And then in 2008, I graduated from the
`Wharton School of Business in Pennsylvania with a
`Master's in Business Administration.
` Q You mentioned that you got a master's at
`MIT.
` As part of your master's program, did you
`have to complete a thesis?
` A I did.
` MS. FIFE: I'm now going to hand the court
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`if I get soft spoken again.
`By MS. FIFE:
` Q All right. Ms. Redin, do you recognize
`this document?
` A I do.
` Q What is it?
` A It's my thesis for my -- for my master's in
`engineering.
` Q And what system does it describe?
` A The Marathon Man system.
` Q When did you first come up with the idea
`for the Marathon Man system?
` A That came up around December in 1997 --
`yep -- no. December 1996.
` Q Can you describe a little bit how you came
`up with the idea for Marathon Man?
` A So the Marathon Man -- so my group was
`called Personal Informational Architecture at the MIT
`Media Lab. And our -- my advisor thesis was, you
`know, what does it mean to put sensors around all of
`us and understand sort of what those sensors meant.
` And, you know, some of the discussions that
`we had we thought that, you know, putting sensors all
`around you also meant putting sensors actually on the
`body. So in those discussions, we decided that this
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`would be a fun project to undertake or a good project
`reporter what will be marked as Exhibit 1. It is
`to undertake.
`Maria Redin's thesis, which is titled: Marathon Man.
` Q You mentioned your advisor.
`(Whereupon Redin Exhibit 1 was marked for
` Who was your advisor?
` identification.)
` A My advisor is Professor Michael Hawley.
` MS. FIFE: Right now, I'm going to read the
` Q Were you influenced by the work of any
`full Bates number but, going forward, I'm just going
`other individuals?
`to say the last, I think, four or five digits just
` A Yes. So at the time, the Media Lab had a
`for the sake of being efficient.
`number of other groups that worked in -- I wouldn't
` So, here you go. Dated -- the file name is
`say exactly the same, but sort of were looking at how
`102, and we will share this on the remote interface
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`sensors really kind of influenced your environment
`as well.
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`and what computing meant when it was distributed.
` Oh, I didn't read the Bates number. Sorry.
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` So, for example, there was -- there was a
`It's Fitbit 19-1158600082606.
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`group of -- the Wearable Computing Group at the Media
` MR. OKANO: And, Counsel for Philips, this
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`Lab that basically chose to wear computers on them at
`has been uploaded.
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`all times. So they had a -- they literally had
` Have you -- were you able to receive it?
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`computers around their waist; they had heads-up
` And I think -- you know what, I'm going to
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`displays that they could see on their glasses; they
`upload it again with just marking it as Exhibit 1.
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`had keyboards on their hands that could take notes
` Let me know if you -- let me know if you do
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`right away. And so they were trying to figure out
`not receive it.
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`how, again, computing could enhance your everyday
` MS. MORAN: I have received it.
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`life.
` If I can take this moment to -- Ms. Redin,
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` There was Effective Computing by -- that
`you are very soft spoken. If you could add a little
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`was led by Dr. Picard, Rosalind Picard.
`more volume, that would be wonderful.
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` COURT REPORTER: What was the first name?
` THE WITNESS: Thank you. Please remind me
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`Case 1:19-cv-11586-FDS Document 338-16 Filed 03/02/22 Page 6 of 58
`Transcript of Maria S. Redin
`Conducted on February 2, 2021
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` The -- my sort of thesis -- my thesis was a
`master's thesis, and this part -- so a master's
`thesis is meant to show that you have mastered the
`art of engineering, right. It is not meant to show
`you have created something new. It's just that you
`know how to be a engineer. If it was something novel
`it would have been a Ph.D thesis, which was not my
`goal at the time.
` Q You mentioned that many of the components
`in the Marathon Man system were, you know, previously
`available.
` What were some of those components and who
`was providing them?
` A For example, one of the sensors that -- the
`GPS sensor was a Lassen-SK8 sensor. It was made by
`Trimble. It was something that you could purchase
`off of -- you could sort of purchase off of Trimble.
` The -- the Polar heart rate sensor was,
`again, a sensor readily available from Polar.
` The -- the Palmtop computer that we
`bought -- that we got was readily available from
`Micro -- it was Micro Center, which is the equivalent
`of the Fry's in Massachusetts, or it use to be. So
`those -- those are the components that are, you
`know -- there were more components but that is an
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` THE WITNESS: Rosalind Picard.
` And her -- her group looked at how -- you
`know, could computers, if you were wearing sensors,
`could understand your emotional state and, like,
`respond accordingly.
` There was -- within the lab, there was also
`a group that was trying to figure out how it is that
`we could have a -- a network that ran in your body so
`that, you know, information could run across your
`body. The work there was called PAN -- it was a PAN
`network. So those were the main three influences
`within the Media Lab.
` Outside of the Media Lab, there was -- we
`found out a little bit later as we were doing our
`research, but there was a company called Quokka that
`was doing -- that was putting sensors on -- in
`particular in -- in sail boats for the Whitbread
`race, and they were trying to take those sensors,
`like all of the data from those sensors, and
`broadcast it out in the same way that -- at the time
`I don't know if you remember, but there was a hockey
`puck that Fox News had -- you know, they -- they were
`able to track the hockey -- put -- put a little tail,
`if you will, of the hockey puck as it was going
`around to -- to just show you where they are. Hockey
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`is a very fast sport, and that made it easier to
`watch.
` Q Okay. Ms. Redin, I think -- I think both
`you and I are falling into the trap of talking a
`little bit too fast. So I think if we can both try
`to slow down to help Brooke that would be --
` A Of course.
` Q -- that would be a good thing.
` So you mentioned a couple of different
`groups at MIT.
` Was a man named Steve Mann a member of one
`of those groups?
` A Yes. He was the leader of the Wearable
`Computing Group.
` Q Was Olin Shivers in one of those groups?
` A Yes. He was part of the PAN network --
`part of the PAN network group.
` Q Okay. Did the Marathon Man system take
`advantage of any previous work done by other
`individuals?
` A Yes. The -- the Marathon Man system was
`based on -- on almost readily -- most of it was
`readily available components that -- that we bought
`off the shelf. So it was -- it -- it was -- it was
`basically putting all of those pieces together.
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`example of.
` Q At a very high level, what was your vision
`for the Marathon Man system?
` A So our hope was to -- to be able to pick up
`this -- to pick up the -- the different vital signs
`that people have and -- and gather them over a long
`period of time, store them, and then ultimately be
`able to analyze them.
` And we did that -- and so the -- the first
`step towards that, it was just understanding how to
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` Q And why did you want to monitor vitals over
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` A So what the -- a part of the -- when you
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`look at it from a medical perspective or from a
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`training perspective, at the time -- this is 1998,
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`1997 -- really the only time when you could take --
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`when you could take your vital signs was when you
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`would go to the doctor, they would measure your heart
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`rate, they would measure your temperature. Or maybe
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`you would measure your temperature, you know, if you
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`were feeling -- if you weren't feeling well.
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` But, um -- but the point was that, sort of
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`those data points, if you think about them, they are
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`very spaced out between one another. And from a
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`Case 1:19-cv-11586-FDS Document 338-16 Filed 03/02/22 Page 7 of 58
`Transcript of Maria S. Redin
`Conducted on February 2, 2021
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`medical perspective, what we understood was, it's --
`it's not so important what your heart rate is at a
`time but how it changes over time. For example, that
`is really important. For example, something like
`your blood pressure, if your blood pressure is -- it
`could be high for all of your life, but if it changes
`dramatically either up or down, that is when you
`should really start to worry from a medical --
`anyway, that was our understanding when we talked to
`medicine.
` But there was no system at the time that
`would allow for that long-term perspective unless you
`were in the hospital and then you were kind of
`attached to sensors that didn't move and they were
`attached to large machines that was -- so we were
`trying to kind of make that moveable.
` Q Over what periods of time did you to use
`your system to monitor people's vital signs?
` A When was it in use?
` Q Yes.
` A So we used it -- we used the Marathon Man
`system one, two, three, four -- four times. So when
`we did it for the Boston Marathon, we ran it for
`about six hours. When we used it in San Francisco --
`in the San Francisco Marathon, it was -- it also ran
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`pick up, you know, for -- for your location, your
`GPS, your temperature, your heart rate, and the
`number of steps, take that, put it together, and send
`it to a server so that it could be analyzed and
`broadcast.
` Q Did you work on Marathon Man with a team?
` A I did.
` Q And who was your team?
` A So my team was the group -- the Personal
`Information Architecture Group that I was with. It
`was -- there was about ten of us that worked together
`but about five people -- five people who were the
`main -- the main group members.
` Q And what was your role on the Marathon Man
`team?
` A Sure.
` So it was my thesis. So I was the project
`manager, but the system -- and the system's
`architect. So I -- I designed the system. I
`designed how it actually -- how the components would
`all come together. Ultimately, chopped it into --
`into smaller pieces and -- and delegated some of the
`pieces to -- to different team members in my group.
` Q What were the names of the -- the people on
`your team? In your group?
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`for about six hours. When we used it in Fort
`Benning, it probably ran for four hours -- four to
`six hours. I don't remember, but it was -- is
`something similar to that. And then when we ran it
`at Everest in -- that one lasted a lot longer. That
`one was, I want to say, 12 hours.
` Q Why did you chose to use your system in an
`environment where people were exerting themselves
`such as at a marathon or at Mount Everest?
` A The reason -- the reason we chose extreme
`environments was because it would test our system in
`a shorter period of time. So, for example, if you
`are just wearing a system while you are walking
`around or maybe you are sitting around at home, it --
`it won't tell you -- it won't tell you sort of how --
`it will take a long time before you figure out that
`the connections aren't right.
` Also, you won't be able to see extremes in
`your heart rate, or you won't be able to see extremes
`in your temperature. And that -- so the fastest way
`to test that is to put the system through an extreme
`set of conditions.
` Q At a very high level, what did you design
`the Marathon Man system to do?
` A At a high level, the system was meant to
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` A Sure.
` So let's see. The -- on the sensor -- on
`the sensor side there was -- the sensor and the IRX,
`which is the main board that gathers all the data,
`was Matt Lau, and Robert Poor, and me. And in the
`Palmtop piece of the -- in the Palmtop part, there
`was me and there was Michael Hawley, my professor who
`helped with that piece as well. And on the -- on the
`server side there was Brad Geilfuss and Oliver Roup,
`who -- who took all of the data and -- and put it up
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` Q What major ideas did each person on your
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`team contribute to the system?
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` A Can you clarify that question?
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` Q What -- like, what did each person
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`contribute when you -- you said you delegated?
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` A Sure.
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` Q So, you know, who contributed what to
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` A Got it.
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` Q -- decision?
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` A So, for example, Brad Geilfuss, you know,
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`with the rest of us, actually sort of made the
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`architecture for the -- for the -- for the server and
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`Case 1:19-cv-11586-FDS Document 338-16 Filed 03/02/22 Page 8 of 58
`Transcript of Maria S. Redin
`Conducted on February 2, 2021
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` Q In this consortium model, did the Media Lab
`or MIT at large, did they give anything to the
`sponsors in exchange for their -- their donations?
` A They did. So the way that -- good point.
` So the trade-off for their membership was
`to be able to -- so the sponsors would get access to
`all of the work that the Media Lab had done, and they
`would -- so there was -- the Media Lab would also
`determine what would get patented; what they felt was
`patent worthy and what they felt was not.
` And so if -- if something was patented, the
`Media Lab consortium members had access to any of
`those patents for, I think, it was free or a
`first-come-first-serve basis, but they -- they --
`they were able to sort of deal with those patents
`before anybody else had.
` And then they were also able to come to the
`Media Lab at least twice a year when we put on these
`big demo days, and they were able to come to choose
`projects that they were particularly interested in
`and come in different days and just focus on those
`projects and talk to the researchers in that -- in
`those -- in those projects.
` Q Did you or your team present the
`Marathon Man system to sponsor companies on one of
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`then ultimately coded the -- the server so it would
`do the things that we needed it to do.
` In the -- for -- for the data, sort of for
`the data logger or the Palmtop computer, Mike and I
`wrote the software that took the -- that took the
`data from the IRX board and then logged it and then
`sent it on to the -- sent it on to the servers to
`establish the connections. And then Rob Poor,
`myself, and -- and Matt Lau basically built,
`soldered -- built the IRX board, soldered the -- the
`sensors, programmed them into the microcontroller.
` Q I apologize, I should have asked you to do
`this at the beginning.
` Would you mind just spelling the names of
`those people so we can have them?
` A Sure.
` So, let's see. Bradley, B-r-a-d-l-e-y,
`Geilfuss, G-e-i-l-f-u-s-s; Oliver, O-l-i-v-e-r, Roup,
`R-o-u-p; Michael Hawley, M-i-c-h-e-a-l, Hawley,
`H-a-w-l-e-y; Robert Poor, R-o-b-e-r-t, Poor, P-o-o-r;
`and Matt Lau, M-a-t-t L-a-u.
` Q So while you were developing the
`Marathon Man system with your team, before, you know,
`you put it into use, did your idea for, you know,
`what the system should do or how it would work change
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`those demo days?
` A Yes. You always had to go to demo days.
` Q Do you remember any of the, like, sponsors
`you presented to?
` A All of them. There were -- there were a
`lot. The consortium had, like, I want to say, 50 or
`60 companies in it. I -- it just -- if you ever talk
`to anybody from the Media Lab at that time, you'll
`see that, like, you literally give a demo almost
`every other day, at least one, if not two demos.
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` Q Did the Media Lab do anything else to -- or
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`in exchange for funds they got from sponsors?
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` A I don't remember. I don't -- I don't
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`believe so.
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` Q What did you hope that sponsors might do
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`after seeing your project?
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` A So, you know, our hope with any project
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`that we had was that it would go on to -- that it
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`would inspire either, you know, people on the outside
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`or, in particular, our sponsors who had a lot of --
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`who had a lot of -- you know, who had access to the
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`market, who had access to commercialization, to take
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`the product on and turn it into something that
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` Q Did the Media Lab send out any type of
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`much during the development period?
` A Not -- the idea of what it should do didn't
`change that much. It was the pieces -- again,
`because it was a master's thesis, the pieces that
`changed was the types of sensors that we could do.
`You know, we wanted more sensors, but we ultimately
`settled on the -- on the ones that we could get a
`hold of. Or, you know, the type of how it is that we
`could, you know, pull the different sensors. So it
`was more the how rather than the what.
` Q How were you able to fund the creation of
`Marathon Man?
` A Sure.
` So Marathon Man was -- was part of -- it
`was a project at the Media Lab. The funding
`mechanism for the Media Lab was a consortium model.
`And what that meant was that companies would come to
`the Media Lab, and they would pay a membership fee to
`be part of this consortium. The money that they paid
`was -- went to a -- a large pool.
` The companies were not able to directly --
`to really -- to pay directly into a project or to
`influence the project. They would just kind of put
`it into a large -- a large pool of money and was
`allocated to each one of the professors.
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`

`Case 1:19-cv-11586-FDS Document 338-16 Filed 03/02/22 Page 9 of 58
`Transcript of Maria S. Redin
`Conducted on February 2, 2021
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`it.
` Q How were these individuals chosen to use
`the Marathon Man system?
` A They -- they could run a marathon.
` Q No small feat.
` A Yeah.
` MR. OKANO: Feat with an a-t or two Es?
` MS. FIFE: Thank you.
`By MR. OKANO:
` Q Did -- did those individuals have to sign
`any type of non-disclosure agreement before they used
`the system?
` A No.
` Q Did you impose any restrictions on how they
`could use the system?
` A Just treat it carefully.
` Q Did you -- did you or your team make any
`attempts to make the use of the Boston Marathon
`secret in any way?
` A No.
` Q Could the public observing the marathon see
`the system being used?
` A Yep.
` Q How so?
` A Well, we -- we put the pats on the -- on
`
`publication to its sponsors?
` A They did.
` So the Media Lab had both a physical --
`physical newsletter, which was called -- it was
`square, it was called Perspectives, I think, that
`they would send out to the sponsors and they would
`keep around at MIT, and they had a digital newsletter
`they would send out to the sponsors.
` Q Were students at MIT involved at all in
`this fundraising process?
` A Not directly. We would -- we would -- we
`would give demos to potential sponsors that would
`come to the Media Lab but -- but that was about it.
` Q You mentioned that -- that sponsors maybe
`had some right to IP --
` A Uh-huh.
` Q -- from students at the Media Lab.
` Was there a specific process for how
`projects would -- would, you know -- how you would
`seek patent protection for projects at the Media
`Lab?
` A So I wasn't directly involved in that, but
`my advisor -- my understanding was that the -- the
`professors that were in charge of each of the
`projects would meet with the -- with MIT's IP lawyer
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`the runners while we were waiting for the marathon to
`and that's who would determine what was -- what was
`start. So it was -- it was fairly public. I know
`patentable and what was not. I -- I was not part of
`that it -- it caught people's attention, so sometimes
`those conversations, but that was my understanding of
`they would ask questions about it and, you know, we
`the process.
`were happy to answer, but there was also -- there was
` Q Do you know if your advisor, Professor Mike
`also a lot of press around it.
`Hawley, do you know if he saw the MIT attorney and
` My -- my advisor was always connected with
`had that conversation?
`the media, so there was, gosh -- there was ABC 5, I
` A I don't know that.
`think, that did a piece on it. We had the New York
` Q Okay. Was Marathon Man ever used in
`Times that kind of worked with us in Boston. Those
`public?
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`are the people that were there during that first
` A Yes.
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`part.
` Q When was the first time it was used in
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` Q Did -- did you or the team or the runners
`public?
`13
` A Well, we would take runs around Cambridge
`make any attempts to conceal the physical components
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`sort of just to test it, but -- but the -- the first
`they were wearing on their bodies?
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` A No.
`main public exposure is when we ran the
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`Boston Marathon in April 1997.
` Q What -- do you remember specifically what
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`type of press you got, like, which organizations?
` Q Who used the system at the
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` A Sure.
`Boston Marathon?
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` So I remember the piece on the local
` A So three people used the system. It was
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`Channel 5. I remember -- I remember the New York
`Mike Hawley, my advisor, and two students. One of
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`Times television piece that they did. I -- I
`them was Bradley Geilfuss, who we talked about
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`remember tech -- MIT tech press. I forget. Sort
`before, and the other one was Craig Wisnski,
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`of -- there is a local MIT newspap