Case 1:19-cv-11586-FDS Document 200-5 Filed 06/18/21 Page 1 of 10
`Case 1:19-cv-11586—FDS Document 200-5 Filed 06/18/21 Page 1 of 10
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`Case 1:19-cv-11586-FDS Document 200-5 Filed 06/18/21 Page 2 of 10
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`Transcript of Arie Tol, Corporate
`Designee & Individually
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`Date: January 13, 2021
`Case: Philips North America -v- Fitbit, Inc.
`
`Planet Depos
`Phone: 888.433.3767
`Email:: transcripts@planetdepos.com
`www.planetdepos.com
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`WORLDWIDE COURT REPORTING & LITIGATION TECHNOLOGY
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`

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`Case 1:19-cv-11586-FDS Document 200-5 Filed 06/18/21 Page 3 of 10
`Transcript of Arie Tol, Corporate Designee & Individually
`Conducted on January 13, 2021
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` A P P E A R A N C E S
` (all via Zoom)
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`On behalf of Plaintiff:
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` OLEY & LARDNER, LLP
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` 32 N. Clark Street
` Suite 3000
` Chicago, IL 60654
` (3 2) 832 4500
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` BY: ELEY O. THOMPSON, ESQ.
` ethompson@foley.com
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`On behalf of Defendant:
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` PAUL HASTINGS, LLP
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`7 S. California Avenue
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` Palo Alto, CA 94304
` (650) 320 800
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` BY: YAR R. CHAIKOVSKY, ESQ.
` DAVID OKANO, ESQ.
` RADHESH DEVENDRAN, ESQ.
` yarchaikovsky@paulhastings.com
` davidokano@paulhastings.com
` radheshdevendran@paulhastings.com
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`ALSO PRESENT:
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` Wendy Viner Videographer
` Linda leet PD Technician
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` UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
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` OR THE
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` DISTRICT O MASSACHUSETTS
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`PHILIPS NORTH :
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`AMERICA, LLC, :
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` Plaintiff, : Civil Action No.
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`v. : : 9 cv
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`586 IT
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`ITBIT, INC., :
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`Defendant. :
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` ***CON IDENTIAL ATTORNEYS EYES ONLY***
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` VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION O
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` ARIE TOL
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` individually and as corporate representative of
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` PHILIPS NORTH AMERICA, LLC
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` Conducted Remotely
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` Wednesday, January 3, 202
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` Job No. 345424
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` Pages: 2 2
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` Reported stenographically by:
` LEAH M. WILLERSDOR ,
` (RPR, CRR, ACR MBIVR, QRR2, CLR)
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` WITNESS INDEX
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`Witness: Page
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`ARIE TOL
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`Examination by Mr. Chaikovsky 0
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` Wednesday, January 3, 202
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` p.m.
` :
` (Central European Time)
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` Videotaped deposition of ARIE TOL,
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`individually and as corporate representative of
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`PHILIPS NORTH AMERICA, LLC, held via Zoom
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`videoconference, before Leah Willersdorf, Registered
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`Professional Reporter, Certified Realtime Reporter,
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`with the US National Court Reporters Association,
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`and Accredited Court Reporter member and Qualified
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`Realtime Reporter (Level 2), with the British
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`Institute of Verbatim Reporters, and Certified
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`LiveNote Reporter.
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`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`

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`Case 1:19-cv-11586-FDS Document 200-5 Filed 06/18/21 Page 4 of 10
`Transcript of Arie Tol, Corporate Designee & Individually
`Conducted on January 13, 2021
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` LITIGATION SUPPORT INDEX
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`Request for the time to be
`marked in the transcript 7
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` EXHIBITS INDEX
`
`Tol Description Page
`Exhibit No.
`
`Exhibit 7 Letter from Yar Chaikovsky 84
` of Paul Hastings to Eley
` Thompson of oley & Lardner,
` dated ebruary 25, 2020
` (8 pages, no Bates)
`
`Exhibit 8 Letter from Ernest Hsin of
` Gibson Dunn to David
` Hickerson at oley &
` Lardner, dated January 7,
` 2020
` (4 pages, no Bates)
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`Exhibit 9 Letter from Yar Chaikovsky
` of Paul Hastings to Eley
` Thompson of oley & Lardner,
` dated December 8, 2020
` (
` pages, no Bates)
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`2
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`Exhibit 0 Transcript of Volume 2 in
` the deposition of Mr. Erik
` Pastink, dated October 2 ,
` 2020, in the Philips v.
` Garmin litigation
` ( 98 pages)
`
` License Agreement between
`Exhibit
` LifeScan, Inc., and
` Koninklijke Philips
` Electronics, N.V., effective
` as of January , 20 3
` (PNA RB0003484 3497)
` [Confidential]
`
`Exhibit 2 Patent License Agreement 25
` between LifeScan Global
` Corporation and Koninklijke
` Philips, N.V., dated
` December 20, 20 9
` (PNA
`B000347 348 )
` [Confidential]
`
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`9
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` (On the record at 1:11 p.m.)
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Thank you. Here begins
`the videotaped deposition of Arie Tol, in the matter
`of Philips North America, LLC, versus Fitbit, Inc.,
`in the United States District Court for the District
`of Massachusetts, Case Number 1:19-cv-11586-IT.
` Today's date is January 13, 2021, and the
`time is 1:11 p.m.
` The videographer today is Wendy Viner on
`behalf of Planet Depos.
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` This video deposition is taking place
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`remotely.
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` Could I ask counsel, please, to identify
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`themselves and state whom they represent.
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` MR. CHAIKOVSKY: Yar Chaikovsky from
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`Paul Hastings, representing Fitbit. Along with me
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`today are Radhesh Devendran and David Okano, also of
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`Paul Hastings, representing Fitbit.
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` MR. THOMPSON: I'm representing the
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`witness and Philips. My name is Eley Thompson of
`20
`Foley & Lardner.
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` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Thank you.
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` The court reporter today is Leah
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`Willersdorf on behalf of Planet Depos. Could I ask
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`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
` EXHIBITS INDEX
`
`Tol Description Page
`Exhibit No.
`
`Exhibit 3 Plaintiff Philips North 5
` America LLC s Notice of
` Intent to Withdraw Count IV
` of the Amended Complaint for
` Patent Infringement
` (3 pages)
`
`Exhibit 5 Document entitled 64
` "Business Plan: License of
` Quy Patents to LifeScan"
` (PNA
`B0006832 0 833)
` [Highly Confidential AEO]
`
`Exhibit 6 Accounting document headed 78
` "Retrieve RR Accounts" for
` SymCare
` (PNA
`B0007 74)
` [Confidential]
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`Exhibit Defendant itbit, Inc. s 94
` Notice of Rule 30(b)(6)
` deposition to Plaintiff
` Philips North America LLC
` ( 3 pages)
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`Exhibit 20 Letter from Mr. Tol to 202
` LifeScan, dated April 26,
` 20 9
` (PNA
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`B0004322 323)
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`Case 1:19-cv-11586-FDS Document 200-5 Filed 06/18/21 Page 5 of 10
`Transcript of Arie Tol, Corporate Designee & Individually
`Conducted on January 13, 2021
`9
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`the court reporter to please swear in the witness and
`we can proceed.
` THE STENOGRAPHER: Good afternoon. My
`name is Leah Willersdorf. I am a Registered
`Professional Reporter and a Certified Realtime
`Reporter.
` Will counsel please stipulate that in lieu
`of formally swearing in the witness, the reporter will
`instead ask the witness to acknowledge that their
`testimony will be true under the penalties of perjury,
`that counsel will not object to the admissibility
`of the transcript based on proceeding in this way, and
`that the witness has verified that he is in fact
`Arie Tol?
` MR. THOMPSON: So stipulated for Philips
`and the witness.
` MR. CHAIKOVSKY: So stipulated for Fitbit.
` THE STENOGRAPHER: Thank you.
` Mr. Tol, do you hereby acknowledge that
`your testimony will be true under the penalties of
`perjury?
` THE WITNESS: Sorry. Did I hear you say
`that?
` THE STENOGRAPHER: Yes.
`
`0
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` THE WITNESS: Yeah, I did hear you say
`that.
` THE STENOGRAPHER: Do you want me -- shall
`I repeat it?
` THE WITNESS: Oh, do you want -- what?
`Okay.
` THE STENOGRAPHER: Okay. Mr. Tol --
` THE WITNESS: Yes.
` THE STENOGRAPHER: -- do you hereby
`acknowledge that your testimony will be true under the
`penalties of perjury?
` THE WITNESS: I do.
` THE STENOGRAPHER: Thank you. Thank you,
`Counsel.
` ARIE TOL,
` having first agreed to tell the truth
` under penalty of perjury,
` was examined and testified as follows:
` EXAMINATION ON BEHALF OF DEFENDANT:
`BY MR. CHAIKOVSKY:
` Q. Mr. Tol, please state your name for the
`record.
` A. My name's Arie Tol.
` Q. And how do you spell that?
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` A. A-r-i-e T-o-l.
` Q. And what's your home address?
` A. Moslaan, M-o-s-l-a-a-n, number 2, 5646 AN,
`in -- yes, AN, in Eindhoven, so that's A -- no, sorry,
`E-i-n-d-h-o-v-e-n.
` Q. Okay. And the country is?
` A. Netherlands.
` Q. And Mr. Tol, you're under oath, as you
`just heard. Do you know what that means?
` A. I think so, yes.
` Q. That your testimony is provided under
`penalty of perjury as if you were testifying in a
`court of law in the United States.
` Do you understand that?
` A. Yes.
` Q. During this process I'm going to ask you
`questions. If you don't understand one of my
`questions, could you please let me know? Will that be
`okay?
` A. I will.
` Q. And then during this process, although
`difficult in a Zoom world, let's try to not speak over
`each other so that the record is clear.
` If you feel you need to clarify or ask
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`something during the course of this process, your
`counsel will have the opportunity to ask questions
`after my questioning. So, you know, be aware that
`Mr. Thompson can ask questions after I'm done. But
`you have to answer my questions even if your counsel
`objects, unless your counsel instructs you not to
`answer the questions based on privilege.
` Do you understand that?
` A. Yes.
` Q. What is your current position at Philips?
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` A. I'm an IP counsel.
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` Q. Is that your title?
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` A. I think so, yes.
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` Q. Okay. What department do you work in?
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` A. IP&S.
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` Q. And what does IP&S stand for?
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` A. Intellectual Property and Standards.
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` Q. And in your role as IP counsel in IP&S,
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`what are your responsibilities or what are your
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`duties?
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` A. My duties? Currently, my duties is to
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`do -- yeah, to advise and to do work in the
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`intellectual property field for Philips.
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` Q. What type of work?
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`

`

`Case 1:19-cv-11586-FDS Document 200-5 Filed 06/18/21 Page 6 of 10
`Transcript of Arie Tol, Corporate Designee & Individually
`Conducted on January 13, 2021
`3
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`give me a little bit more explanation as to what that
`means?
` A. Like a venture.
` Q. Okay. For the remainder of today,
`I guess, when I'm asking a question, I'll often be
`asking what words mean, et cetera, because, to me,
`when you say "like a venture," that may mean something
`to you. It doesn't mean a lot to me since I don't
`know Philips.
` A. Okay.
` Q. And so I will ask for a further narrative
`response when possible. So, for example, when you say
`"like a venture," at Philips what does that mean to be
`working like a venture --
` A. Okay.
` Q. -- at Philips?
` A. Okay. I thought that the term "venture"
`was kind of general. So I assume that you've heard
`of the name "venture capital"; would that be safe
`to say?
` Q. I have heard of the word "venture
`capital." So I don't know how that relates to what
`you do at Philips.
` A. So the word "venture" in "venture capital"
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` A. What type of work? What do you mean
`"what type of work"?
` Q. You said "to do work in the intellectual
`property field for Philips," and I'm just wondering
`what is encompassed within that definition of "work."
`What is the type of work you do in the intellectual
`property field for Philips?
` A. Okay. I work on projects in relation to
`our intellectual property.
` Q. Okay. What type of projects do you work
`on?
` A. IP-related projects.
` Q. Do you work on patent prosecution, patent
`litigation, IP licensing? Can you give me a little
`bit more detail of the specificity of the types of
`things that you do at the company.
` A. Okay. Do you mean now or at some point
`in time?
` Q. What sort -- I apologize. That was me
`talking over you.
` Let's take now. Let's start off with what
`do you do now?
` A. Okay. Now I'm involved in projects where
`we try to, you know, leverage the IP that we have in
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`relates to the same type of activity. So it's about
`all sorts of situations. So it might be a portfolio
`business activities that are at an early stage.
`of patents that we sell, you know, could be a license
`contract, stuff like that.
` Q. And are you talking about early-stage
`businesses withinside of Philips? So you're working
` Q. Okay. So, currently, your focus is on,
`with businesses at Philips in their early stage?
`you know, buying and acquiring patents and licensing
` A. Yeah.
`patents? Is that your focus?
` A. No, not so much involved in buying
` Q. Does this connotation of you working with
`patents.
`ventures cover anything else other than working with
`early-stage businesses at Philips?
` Q. Okay. So you're more involved in selling
` A. I'm not sure I understand the question.
`patents and licensing patents?
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` A. Yeah, that's more the focus than buying
` Q. Well, you said you work on ventures and
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`and acquiring.
`what I'm trying to get an understanding is what it
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`means to be working on ventures.
` Q. Okay. And is that the -- would you say,
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` One understanding of that, as you
`based on that response, that that's the focus of your
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`testified, is that it's working on early-stage
`role currently?
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` A. It's one of the things that I do.
`ventures at Philips. That, I understand. Is anything
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`else encompassed by your testimony that you work on
` Q. Okay. That's one of the things that you
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`ventures within Philips?
`do, okay.
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` A. Sorry, I still don't understand the
` A. Mmm-hmm.
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`question. Could you rephrase it or...
` Q. Okay. What's another thing that you do?
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` A. I'm also involved in advising on -- you
` Q. Mr. Tol, I'm just looking for an answer
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`know, we have some businesses, some startup
`as to what it means to work on ventures within
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`activities; I'm involved in that as well.
`Philips.
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` A. Okay.
` Q. When you say "startup activities," can you
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`1234567891
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`

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`Case 1:19-cv-11586-FDS Document 200-5 Filed 06/18/21 Page 7 of 10
`Transcript of Arie Tol, Corporate Designee & Individually
`Conducted on January 13, 2021
`7
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` Q. How would you find out?
` A. Probably have to go to HR or the HR pages
`in my company, or look at my payslip. I don't know.
` Q. At the conclusion of this deposition,
`could you go and do that and provide that to your
`counsel? I'd appreciate it.
` A. Okay. Just out of curiosity, why is it
`relevant?
` Q. I need to know the company you work for
`and how the company relates to the plaintiff in this
`case.
` A. Okay.
` Q. Who do you report to?
` A. I report to the -- I don't even know what
`his official title is. He is also a person working
`in IP&S and he is responsible for a bigger scope of
`activities than I am, so also IP related then,
`of course.
` Q. What is his name and what is his title?
` A. I think he's also IP counsel. His name
`is Kevin Scott, Mr. Kevin Scott.
` Q. And do you know who Kevin Scott reports
`to?
` A. That's a good question. I don't really
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` Q. And a complete understanding of what
`it means to work on ventures within Philips,
`everything that you do that work on ventures within
`Philips.
` A. Okay.
` Q. So what does that mean? If you had to
`tell this to, you know, someone living in Amsterdam or
`someone living somewhere else in the Netherlands,
`"Hey, this is what I do, working on ventures within
`Philips," how would you explain it?
` MR. THOMPSON: Yar, may I suggest you
`could just ask him what it entails to work on ventures
`within Philips? You know -- sorry, I don't mean to
`interfere but I think that you're just -- I think it's
`the question isn't asking what I think I understand
`you to be trying to get at.
` But it's your question, so...
` MR. CHAIKOVSKY: Okay. I have no problem
`with that.
`BY MR. CHAIKOVSKY:
` Q. I mean, if that helps you, Mr. Tol, in
`saying what does it entail to work on ventures within
`Philips, happy to propound that question.
` A. Okay. Well, what does it entail? Can be,
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`kind of, a number of things. So it could be something
`like advising or looking at the intellectual property
`which is relevant for that venture; it could be
`reviewing a business plan for that venture; it could
`be -- and advising on it; it could be actually
`scouting for developing opportunities that may make it
`into a venture.
` Q. Anything else that you can think of,
`Mr. Tol?
` A. Not immediately. Contractual work --
` Q. What specific -- sorry, go ahead.
` A. -- on those ventures.
` Sorry, I just remembered another one.
` Q. Go ahead.
` A. No, I said contract work. That was the
`one.
` Q. Okay.
` A. I was referring back to what I said.
` Q. What specific Philips entity employs you
`currently?
` A. Oh, that's a good question. I think it's
`Philips International, B.V.
` Q. You're not sure?
` A. I'm not completely sure, no.
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`know. Depends on -- because Mr. Scott is -- he is
`based in the United Kingdom and I'm based in
`Eindhoven, as I mentioned earlier, which is in
`the Netherlands, so he's probably employed by our
`British organization, the Philips British
`organization. So, yeah.
` Q. Okay. So you do not know who Mr. Scott
`reports to, correct?
` A. If he's employed -- no, I don't know the
`British organization. I don't know.
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` Q. Okay. Who is the -- who is in charge of
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`IP&S? Who is the lead?
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` A. So the head of IP&S is Mr. Clem Revetti.
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` Q. Can you spell that?
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` A. Yes. C-l-e-m, that's his first name, and
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`Revetti, R-e-v-e-t-t-i.
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` Q. Mr. Tol, are you the person most
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`knowledgeable at Philips about its patent-licensing
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`programs?
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` MR. THOMPSON: I'm going to object that
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`that's vague as relative to the breadth of that
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`question.
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`BY MR. CHAIKOVSKY:
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` Q. Okay. You can still respond, Mr. Tol.
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`Case 1:19-cv-11586-FDS Document 200-5 Filed 06/18/21 Page 8 of 10
`Transcript of Arie Tol, Corporate Designee & Individually
`Conducted on January 13, 2021
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`that you would have?
` A. Not really, no.
` Q. Okay. And as of today, in your position
`at Philips, is there a goal or outcome that you were
`expected to achieve on the Fitbit project?
` MR. THOMPSON: I'm going to object and
`instruct not to answer as the goals and -- of this
`case, with a person who is in the day-to-day group
`relating to the case, who has advice by Foley and a
`whole bunch of other attorneys, is attorney work
`product and attorney-client privilege so I instruct
`him not to answer.
` MR. CHAIKOVSKY: And just for that
`instruction, Mr. Thompson, and the earlier instruction
`that you provided with respect to the prior questions,
`can you state the basis for the privilege on the
`record?
` MR. THOMPSON: I just did.
` MR. CHAIKOVSKY: No, you did not. You
`stated that, "has advice by Foley and a whole bunch of
`other attorneys, is attorney work product and
`attorney-client privilege so I instruct him not
`to answer."
` And what I'm saying is -- you know, Foley
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`is not internal to Fitbit. You know, you don't exist
`than this privilege issue with respect to revenues and
`internal -- sorry, to Philips. You don't exist
`targets within the IP&S group of Philips?
` A. No.
`internally to Philips, and so when Philips creates
`its kind of outcome with respect to what its goals and
` Q. Okay. And you would consider yourself,
`its projects are, whether it's Fitbit, Garmin or other
`Mr. Tol, as the lead on the Fitbit project within
`projects, you know, Foley & Lardner is not there.
`Philips, correct?
` A. More or less, yes, depending on what you
` And so what I'm asking for is what's the
`call "lead," but...
`basis of the privilege -- all of those questions
`I asked before the break, on any project, Fitbit,
` Q. Okay. If you didn't use the word "lead,"
`Garmin or otherwise, how is that privileged?
`what word would you use to describe your role in the
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` MR. THOMPSON: Well, sure. So you asked
`Fitbit project within Philips?
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` A. I don't know. What word to use? Because,
`what's the goal or outcome of the case; so, I mean,
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`as we discussed, if there is a settlement, then that
`I'll outline it but I think this will be familiar to
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`needs to be approved. As you have understood from all
`you because I'm sure that you do the same thing in
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`the questions that you asked about it, I'm not one of
`other cases. So when you assess a case, right, you
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`the approvers; so, in that sense, I'm not the leader.
`look at the actions of the defendant. Here, Fitbit,
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`right. You look at how long they've infringed the
` Q. Okay. So how would you characterize your
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`patents and the situation in which they infringe the
`role on the Fitbit project? What is your title or
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`patents, which leads to damages to Philips.
`what would you say you are?
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` A. So I would say I'm, together with -- I'm,
` You assess that and then when you assess
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`on a regular basis, interacting with our counsel,
`that, then it goes into what would be the, as you
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`Foley, together with my US colleague.
`characterized it, goal or outcome of the litigation.
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`That is all part of the assessment of the case and
` Q. Okay. That's what you do. Is there a
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`it's also part of attorney-client privilege.
`name or a characterization you would give to the role
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`about privilege. If you want to ask a privileged
`question or you want to have a discussion, I'm happy
`to do that.
` But this part -- I consulted with him
`to do as you requested, assess the privilege, and
`that's what we're prepared to do.
` MR. CHAIKOVSKY: Okay. If you assessed
`the privilege, what was the outcome of your
`assessment, Mr. Thompson?
` MR. THOMPSON: The outcome of my
`assessment was that what I had said earlier on the
`record was accurate.
` MR. CHAIKOVSKY: Okay. So just so
`I understand, the witness will not be answering the
`questions that were posed just prior to the break
`based on your instruction not to answer as privileged,
`correct?
` MR. THOMPSON: That's right.
` MR. CHAIKOVSKY: Okay. We'll have
`a dispute about that before the Court, otherwise
`I won't waste time asking the exact same questions.
`BY MR. CHAIKOVSKY:
` Q. Anything else, Mr. Tol, that you discussed
`during that 30-minute break with your counsel other
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`Case 1:19-cv-11586-FDS Document 200-5 Filed 06/18/21 Page 9 of 10
`Transcript of Arie Tol, Corporate Designee & Individually
`Conducted on January 13, 2021
`6
` MR. CHAIKOVSKY: Okay. And so let's refer
`not to the Fitbit matter. Let's refer to any project
`within IP&S. And any project in IP&S, you can't make
`that representation, and so -- and, in fact, I would
`assume -- and I'll ask the question, I would assume
`outside counsel's not involved in many of the IP&S'
`projects.
` And so the questions I asked prior to the
`break were not tied to Fitbit at all. They were --
`you know, they were asking about projects within the
`group and compensation with respect to those projects
`and targets, and so that answer or that response you
`just gave me with respect to privilege wouldn't apply
`-- I can have a debate about whether it even applies
`to Fitbit even. But let's focus on the broader notion
`of targets on any projects and what the basis of that
`privilege is. How is that privileged?
` MR. THOMPSON: I don't think -- first off,
`I don't agree with your characterization of there
`being targets. What there is, especially in regards
`to Fitbit, is a course of action taken by Fitbit where
`they willfully disregarded the patent rights of
`Philips. They caused tremendous damage to Philips
`that led to Philips seeking redress in this case.
`
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`you were actually referring to the company that
`we were offering a license to, which I found not
`a rather nice qualification, but, okay, if that's your
`choice of words, they're your choice of words.
` But I never understood the word "target"
`to mean a financial target, so I would just clarify
`that, because that's kind of -- you're mixing --
`you're using that term also not very clear, not
`very -- "targeted," it means this and that and thus,
`I don't know what that means, in everything that went
`before this, so...
` Q. Okay. Now you perceive that you
`understand the question, what's the answer?
` A. Well, that was only with respect to
`"target." So I understood "target" to mean in this,
`all the time, as your not-so-nice qualification of
`a company -- that is disrespectful of our IP -- like
`Fitbit. So, still, that is a very general question
`what you ask and I don't know how to answer that in --
`I don't know how to answer that. It is just too
`general.
` Q. So in your over-35 years of experience
`working at Philips, you have no ability to answer the
`question as to how Philips develops a numerical
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`royalty range or numerical royalty number for any
` So that is -- that's what's going on here.
`potential licensees for which it attempts to license
` MR. CHAIKOVSKY: And, again, so -- I'll
`its patents; is that true?
`ask the question of Mr. Tol again because the
` A. It is because of my 35 years --
`objection or instruction has no relationship to
` MR. THOMPSON: I -- hold on, hold on,
`the question.
`Arie --
`BY MR. CHAIKOVSKY:
` THE WITNESS: -- of --
` Q. Mr. Tol, within the IP&S group and the
` MR. THOMPSON: Hold on. One -- I just
`projects that you work on, are there -- how does
`need to interpose an objection.
`Philips determine the royalty targets for any specific
` MR. CHAIKOVSKY: And if you have an
`project that it embarks on or engages in?
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` A. That's a very general question. Can you
`objection, Mr. Thompson, you can object. If you
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`be more specific?
`provide a speaking objection, we're ending this
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`immediately. You either instruct him not to answer or
` Q. Well, no, I can't, you know, without
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`you object.
`knowing how, internally, you worked to develop targets
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` MR. THOMPSON: Okay, Yar.
`or royalty numbers that you are seeking from
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` MR. CHAIKOVSKY: No, I --
`licensees. And what I'm asking again is -- just like
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` MR. THOMPSON: Maybe you could tone it
`I did prior to the break, the half-hour break which
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`down --
`you spoke with counsel -- how does Philips develop,
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` MR. CHAIKOVSKY: No, we'll stop.
`with respect to any prospective licensee, its
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` MR. THOMPSON: -- a little bit, Yar.
`perceived royalties or royalties it attempts to
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` MR. CHAIKOVSKY: No, we'll stop. We'll
`achieve -- I will call them targets -- for any entity?
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` A. Oh, wait a minute, when you call them
`stop.
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`targets, you -- okay. Let me clarify this here.
` MR. THOMPSON: Well, I don't --
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`I always thought that you meant when you use "target,"
` MR. CHAIKOVSKY: Do not provide a speaking
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`Case 1:19-cv-11586-FDS Document 200-5 Filed 06/18/21 Page 10 of 10
`Case lilg'cv'lmge 1° °f 1°
`Transcript of Arie Tol, Corporate Designee & Individually
`
`S3 (209 to 212)
`
`Conducted on January 13, 2021
`209
`
`NQOMAUJNH
`
`manufactured as an exhibit so that your damages
`expert, Michael Akemann, could use to justify a
`
`$1.00-per-unit license in these cases against Garmin
`and Fitbit --
`
`MR. THOMPSON: Objection.
`(Stenographer clarification.)
`BY MR. CHAIKOVSKY:
`
`Q.
`
`Michael Akemann, A-k-e-m-a-n-n, could
`
`WNONUIAWNI—
`
`CERTIFICATE OF WITNESS
`
`I, ARIE TOL, declare that I have read the entire
`
`transcript of my deposition testimony, or the same has
`
`been read to me, and certify that it is a true,
`correct and complete transcript of my testimony given
`on Wednesday, January 13, 2021, save and except for
`changes and/or corrections, if any, as indicated by me
`
`9 use to justify a $1.00—per—unit license in these cases
`10 against Garmin and Fitbit; yes or no?
`
`11
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`MR. THOMPSON: And I said objection.
`THE STENOGRAPHER: Thanks.
`
`9 on the attached Errata Sheet, with the understanding
`10 that I offer these changes and/or corrections as if
`11 still under oath.
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`13 BY MR. CHAIKOVSKY:
`
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`Q. You can still answer, Mr. Tol.
`
`l 3
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`THE WITNESS: What's the objection, Eley?
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`MR. THOMPSON: The objection is
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`17 foundation.
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`15 Signed
`16 Arie Tol
`l 7
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`THE WITNESS: Okay.
`MR. THOMPSON: And assumes facts not in
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`20 evidence.
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`22 again?
`23 BY MR. CHAIKOVSKY:
`
`THE WITNESS: So what was the qu