Case 1:20-cv-00393-LMB-WEF Document 1469-3 Filed 04/05/23 Page 1 of 11 PageID# 41141
`Case 1:20-cv-00393-LMB-WEF Document 1469-3 Filed 04/05/23 Page 1 of 11 PagelD# 41141
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`EXHIBIT 65
`EXHIBIT 65
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`·1· · · · · · · · · UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
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`Page 1
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`·2· · · · · · · FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA
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`·3· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·---oOo---
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`·4· ·RAI STRATEGIC HOLDINGS, INC.,
`· · ·and R.J. REYNOLDS VAPOR COMPANY;
`·5
`· · ·Plaintiffs and CounterClaim Defendants,
`·6
`· · ·vs.· · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·No. 1:20cv00393-LO-TCB
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`· · ·ALTRIA CLIENT SERVICES LLC; PHILIP
`·8· ·MORRIS USA, INC.; and PHILIP MORRIS
`· · ·PRODUCTS S.A.,
`·9
`· · ·Defendants and Counterclaim Plaintiffs.
`10· ·____________________________________/
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`13· · · · · · · · · · · · ·
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`14· · · · · VIDEOTAPED REMOTE CONFERENCING DEPOSITION OF
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`15· · · · · · · · · · · · MOIRA GILCHRIST
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`17
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`18
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`19· · · · · ·Stenographically reported by NICOLE HATLER
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`20· · · · · · · · · · California CSR No. 13730
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`21· · · · · · · · · · · · ·June 18, 2021
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`22
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`23
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`24
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`25· ·JOB NO. 195611
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`Page 126
`·1· ·brand, and that umbrella brand, if you like, is --
`·2· ·is IQOS.
`·3· · · · · ·And so, that's been the -- the approach
`·4· ·that we've taken to the development, the
`·5· ·assessment, the regulatory authorization, and the
`·6· ·commercialization of -- of all of our products is
`·7· ·we -- our aim is to be the leader of this category,
`·8· ·and we are, right now, the leader of this category.
`·9· · · · · ·So we always went above and beyond what we
`10· ·thought would delight consumers, solving problems
`11· ·that they had seen with -- with other products, and
`12· ·creating a brand that they felt loyal to, and
`13· ·nesting all of our products under that brand to
`14· ·give them the -- the -- the familiarity and
`15· ·knowledge that they were going to be getting the
`16· ·best quality products that are available with the
`17· ·best technology and innovation in the smoke-free
`18· ·space.
`19· · · · · ·So that was really the -- the ethos that
`20· ·we've had since -- since the beginning, and you
`21· ·know, we have talked about this publicly very
`22· ·often.· So, you know, in -- in terms of what's
`23· ·happened with -- with other products that have --
`24· ·you know, are using, for example, our intellectual
`25· ·property, what that has is an effect of putting
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`Page 127
`·1· ·something on the market and making it -- making it
`·2· ·everyday, and something that we're deprived of
`·3· ·being able to -- to really utilize under our own
`·4· ·brand.· And to give that feeling that the product
`·5· ·is part of the IQOS ecosystem, if you'd like.
`·6· · · · · ·So I think if you were to look at it from
`·7· ·that perspective, that's, I think, what diluting
`·8· ·the brand and diluting the goodwill would mean.
`·9· · · ·Q.· So the brand that we're talking about is
`10· ·the brand IQOS; is that right?
`11· · · ·A.· The umbrella brand IQOS, under which the
`12· ·IQOS heated-tobacco fits, the VEEV fits, the IQOS
`13· ·TEEPS fits, and -- and so on.
`14· · · ·Q.· And in the United States, the only product
`15· ·using that brand is the IQOS heated tobacco
`16· ·product, at least so far, correct?
`17· · · ·A.· At this point in time on June the 18th,
`18· ·2021, in the United States, it's the IQOS heated
`19· ·tobacco product, but we have plans for our IQOS
`20· ·VEEV product to -- to go through the PMT process
`21· ·with FDA.
`22· · · ·Q.· And I do have some questions on that for
`23· ·you later, but let's stick with IQOS heated tobacco
`24· ·product for now.
`25· · · · · ·What evidence are you aware of that sales
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`Page 128
`·1· ·of Vuse products allegedly using your patents have
`·2· ·done some concrete harm to the IQOS brand in the
`·3· ·United States?
`·4· · · ·A.· So what -- what type of examples are you
`·5· ·looking for?
`·6· · · ·Q.· Well, it's -- it's your company statement
`·7· ·that Vuse products being sold has harmed the IQOS
`·8· ·brand in the United States.· I just want to know
`·9· ·what evidence there is that that's true, if any.
`10· · · ·A.· So, I mean, let me -- let me take this from
`11· ·two -- two angles.· One is the technology angle and
`12· ·that's really a future-looking thing.· But, you
`13· ·know, Vuse is on the market with technology that
`14· ·we -- we developed and we patented because we knew
`15· ·that it was unique and -- and really solved a
`16· ·number of consumer issues.
`17· · · · · ·For example, the mouth leakage, which is a
`18· ·common problem among electronic cigarettes that are
`19· ·available in the United States, we worked hard to
`20· ·create a technology that could -- could prevent
`21· ·that from happening.· And you can imagine from a
`22· ·consumer perspective, that's a value-adding
`23· ·proposition.
`24· · · · · ·So now that's on the market with the Vuse
`25· ·technology using our patent, so it's become,
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`·1· ·somehow, a normal thing.· It's -- when -- when we
`·2· ·bring it on the market once we receive PMT
`·3· ·authorization, if FDA decides to -- to do that,
`·4· ·then this no longer will be a unique feature that's
`·5· ·unique to an IQOS smoke-free product under that
`·6· ·brand umbrella.· So that's -- that's one -- one
`·7· ·part.
`·8· · · · · ·I think the -- the other thing in terms of
`·9· ·the -- the branding, I think, IQOS stands for
`10· ·quality, it stands for science, and it stands for
`11· ·following the rules and the regulatory process.
`12· ·And what we see with product like Vuse is that
`13· ·it's -- it's on the market without standing for
`14· ·science, without having gone through the -- the
`15· ·rules, and I think this is somehow -- has the
`16· ·potential to be confusing for -- for consumers.
`17· · · · · ·So I think there are multiple different
`18· ·things that -- that can be determined as being a
`19· ·harm from -- from Vuse being on the market, from --
`20· ·from both the immediate and the longer term --
`21· ·historical and immediate and a future perspective
`22· ·for the umbrella IQOS brand.
`23· · · ·Q.· So Vuse being on the market -- I'm not
`24· ·following how Vuse being on the market as Vuse
`25· ·could be confusing to consumers or do any harm to
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`Page 130
`·1· ·IQOS.· Put aside the technology, we'll discuss that
`·2· ·in a minute.· But, you know, you said a minute ago
`·3· ·that Vuse is on the market and IQOS has played by
`·4· ·the rules and Vuse isn't playing by the rules.
`·5· · · · · ·How can that -- how can that harm IQOS?
`·6· ·Isn't that something that IQOS can use to its
`·7· ·advantage· by marketing to consumers that IQOS is
`·8· ·playing by the rules and Vuse isn't?
`·9· · · · · ·MR. REISER:· Objection.· Vague; compound;
`10· ·argumentative.
`11· · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Do you want to separate that
`12· ·out into pieces?
`13· ·BY MR. VITT:
`14· · · ·Q.· Yeah.· How does Vuse's behavior and
`15· ·Reynolds's behavior regarding Vuse harm the IQOS
`16· ·brand, setting aside the technology issue which I
`17· ·want to discuss separately?
`18· · · ·A.· Okay.· There's tremendous confusion among
`19· ·adult smokers in the United States today, and
`20· ·that's been caused by a number of different things.
`21· ·There's a -- there's a battle going on in the
`22· ·public health community about the approach of
`23· ·tobacco harm-reduction, for example.
`24· · · · · ·You have companies and -- and -- and -- and
`25· ·products being -- being pointed to as being part of
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`·1· ·the problem.· So the problem of youth use of
`·2· ·electronic cigarettes is widely known and is
`·3· ·causing confusion among the general public about
`·4· ·the viability of tobacco harm-reduction as a
`·5· ·strategy to -- to help reduce smoking-related
`·6· ·disease and death.
`·7· · · · · ·I believe that that confusion has been
`·8· ·propagated through to IQOS because.· For example,
`·9· ·we have no worrisome levels of youth use whatsoever
`10· ·because media spokesperson -- I get question about
`11· ·youth use of IQOS all the time because other
`12· ·products on the market have been advertising widely
`13· ·on the television, have been problematic in -- in
`14· ·terms of youth use, and that has bled over into
`15· ·doubts about the IQOS product and the IQOS brand
`16· ·overall, which are completely unjustified.
`17· · · ·Q.· And you're blaming Vuse for that?
`18· · · ·A.· Vuse is one of the products which has been
`19· ·pointed to as being part of the problem of -- of,
`20· ·for example, youth use of electronic cigarettes.
`21· · · ·Q.· And what other products have been pointed
`22· ·to as part of the problem?
`23· · · ·A.· There are other products, JUUL has been
`24· ·mentioned, there have been things like the -- I've
`25· ·forgotten what it's called, the disposal puff bars
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`·1· ·and so on.
`·2· · · ·Q.· And this confusion you're talking about --
`·3· ·this confusion doesn't relate at all to the IQOS
`·4· ·name itself.· Nobody's confused that IQOS isn't
`·5· ·your brand, for example.· It's more confusion in
`·6· ·the category of harm-reduction.
`·7· · · · · ·Am I understanding you correctly?
`·8· · · ·A.· So the -- the confusion and the, I would
`·9· ·say, opposition to harm-reduction and
`10· ·harm-reduction products because of some of the
`11· ·challenges associated with electronic cigarettes,
`12· ·whether it be youth use, e-valy, whatever, that has
`13· ·bled over into the IQOS brand and the -- and the
`14· ·discussions about IQOS.· And our -- our media
`15· ·spokesperson get questions about that all the time
`16· ·even though the IQOS products has nothing to do
`17· ·with any of these issues.
`18· · · ·Q.· Let's talk about the technology aspect of
`19· ·this.· I think you said that Vuse is using
`20· ·technology that PMP patented, and of course, that's
`21· ·your company's allegation in the lawsuit.
`22· · · · · ·Am I right so far?
`23· · · ·A.· That's correct.
`24· · · ·Q.· And the harm that you see coming from that
`25· ·is that it will -- that will make that technology
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`·1· ·seem like a normal thing so that when PMP
`·2· ·introduces its VEEV product, it won't get credit
`·3· ·for this -- this technology advance that it's
`·4· ·patented.
`·5· · · · · ·Do I have that about right?
`·6· · · ·A.· Well, that's -- that's part of it.· So --
`·7· ·so the -- you -- - you lose the unique selling
`·8· ·proposition because somebody has already had it on
`·9· ·the market, so when -- when we bring it to the
`10· ·market it's no longer a unique feature.
`11· · · · · ·But it also prevents us from being able to
`12· ·further build up the -- the brand -- you know, the
`13· ·brand itself and the goodwill associated with that
`14· ·brand because the IQOS brand stands for innovation
`15· ·and it stands for technology and it stands for
`16· ·science.· And we're -- we're deprived, basically,
`17· ·of the ability of -- of using this patented
`18· ·technology as part of the overall what IQOS stands
`19· ·for, because it is already on the market and
`20· ·through the Reynolds Vuse product.
`21· · · ·Q.· Do you know whether the IQOS VEEV
`22· ·product -- well, let me back up.
`23· · · · · ·IQOS's -- I'm sorry.
`24· · · · · ·PMP's IQOS VEEV product is an e-cigarette
`25· ·product, right?
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`·1· ·products on the market.
`·2· · · · · ·Do I have that right?
`·3· · · ·A.·
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`20· · · ·Q.· Is there a plan to introduce IQOS VEEV in
`21· ·the United States?
`22· · · ·A.· Yes.
`23· · · ·Q.· W
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`16· · · ·Q.· Yeah.· I think maybe before we end for the
`17· ·day, let's get his -- his last name, the spelling
`18· ·of his last name.
`19· · · ·A.· Sure.· I'm sorry.· I forgot to do that.
`20· · · ·Q.· That's okay.· That's okay.
`21· · · · · ·
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`·1· · · ·Q.· All right.
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`18· · · ·Q.· So if the application goes in, we'll call
`19· ·it, December 2021, so within this year, do you have
`20· ·any expectation for how long it would take the FDA
`21· ·to approve a PMTA application for VEEV?
`22· · · ·A.· So they would authorize?
`23· · · ·Q.· Authorize.· I'm not going to get it.· I'm
`24· ·sorry.
`25· · · ·A.· You will by the end of this deposition.
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`16· · · ·Q.· Are you involved, Dr. Gilchrist, in the
`17· ·discussions or the decision around how to go to
`18· ·market with VEEV in the United States?
`19· · · ·A.· I'm involved in some of the discussions,
`20· ·yes.
`21· · · ·Q.· Who is in charge of the -- let's call it
`22· ·the commercialization or distribution planning for
`23· ·VEEV in the United States?
`24· · · ·A.· So that would be --
`25· · · · · ·MR. REISER:· I -- I want to object that
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`Page 158
`·1· ·these questions about distribution and marketing in
`·2· ·the United States are beyond the scope of the
`·3· ·designated testimony.
`·4· · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Thank you, Bert.·
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`·1· · · ·A.·
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`·8· ·BY MR. VITT:
`·9· · · ·Q.· Okay.· Are there -- does PMP have regular
`10· ·meetings about the plans related to commercializing
`11· ·VEEV around the world, including in the United
`12· ·States?
`13· · · · · ·Is there some sort of a team that meets
`14· ·regularly and generates, you know, meeting
`15· ·documents about the status of these kind of plans
`16· ·and et cetera?
`17· · · · · ·MR. REISER:· Objection.· Vague.
`18· · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Yeah.· So there -- I live in
`19· ·a corporation that I have many, many meetings and
`20· ·many teams.· I think it would be helpful to
`21· ·understand what you're looking for so I can answer
`22· ·the question accurately.
`23· ·BY MR. VITT:
`24· · ·
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`·1· · · ·Q.·
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`10· · · ·Q.· Do you know who's in charge of the
`11· ·marketing team for VEEV?
`12· · · ·A.· So I would need to double check the name
`13· ·for you, if that -- if that was necessary.
`14· · · ·Q.· Is that something we could check on a final
`15· ·break?· We're -- we're going to finish by 10:30 my
`16· ·time, 5:30 your time, at least I think so.
`17· · · · · ·MR. REISER:· Tom, we'll do that as a
`18· ·courtesy, but again, marketing isn't part of what
`19· ·this witness has been designated to testify about.
`20· · · · · ·MR. VITT:· Right.· But it is also a 30(b)1
`21· ·deposition, and I'm asking questions.· So thank
`22· ·you -- thank you for the courtesy.
`23· ·BY MR. VITT:
`24· · · ·Q.·
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`·1· ·Reynolds' infringement of the Philip Morris
`·2· ·asserted patents has harmed VEEV's future standing
`·3· ·in the US market?
`·4· · · ·A.· So to answer that question, I would need to
`·5· ·have a look at the ways similar -- at those
`·6· ·described above for IQOS if you don't mind. I
`·7· ·don't want to misspeak.
`·8· · · ·Q.· Okay.· So as -- as the witness designated
`·9· ·by PMP to testify about harm, are you -- without
`10· ·looking back, are you able to offer any evidence
`11· ·that something Reynolds has done with respect to
`12· ·the VUSE products has harmed VEEV's standing in the
`13· ·US market when it's not even on the market yet?
`14· · · ·A.· I'm sorry.· Do you want me to answer that
`15· ·generally or specifically in relation to the
`16· ·sentence you read out?
`17· · · ·Q.· Yeah.· I'm trying to find out if -- if you,
`18· ·as the witness for PMP, can offer me any evidence
`19· ·that· ·Vuse -- Reynolds selling of Vuse products
`20· ·has harmed VEEVS' standing in the US market without
`21· ·going back through the document and -- and looking.
`22· · · ·A.· Okay.· So I think it goes back to what I
`23· ·mentioned earlier.· So the -- the -- the fact that
`24· ·Vuse is using the -- the patents that belong to PMP
`25· ·SA around things like the -- the mouth leakage, et
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`·8· · · ·Q.· Martin question?
`·9· · · ·A.· For sure.
`10· · · ·Q.· Okay.
`11· · · · · ·MR. VITT:· Okay.· Could we pull Exhibit 5
`12· ·back up again.
`13· ·BY MR. VITT:
`14· · · ·Q.· And if we could go to page 41, there's some
`15· ·discussion of VEEV on page 41.· There we go.
`16· · · · · ·So Dr. Gilchrist, this is that same
`17· ·document we looked at earlier with respect to IQOS.
`18· ·I'm drawing your attention to the first full
`19· ·paragraph on the page.
`20· · · · · ·At the end of that first full paragraph, it
`21· ·says, Reynolds' infringement of the Philip Morris
`22· ·asserted patents has harmed VEEV's future standing
`23· ·in the US market in the ways similar to the way
`24· ·described above for IQOS.
`25· · · · · ·What evidence is PMP aware of that
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`Page 170
`·1· ·cetera, has made this a commonplace technology
`·2· ·rather than an innovation, which we would have
`·3· ·positioned it as in IQOS VEEV once the product
`·4· ·gained PMTA authorization.
`·5· · · · · ·So basically, it dilutes our ability to --
`·6· ·to market this to consumers with a unique selling
`·7· ·proposition because it's no longer a unique selling
`·8· ·proposition because another company has -- has used
`·9· ·that -- that technology.
`10· · · ·Q.· Anything else?
`11· · · ·A.· Yeah.· It's -- it's -- it's about our
`12· ·ability to build the IQOS brand with this
`13· ·innovation and technology mindset that we -- or
`14· ·brand voice that we have embedded into the
`15· ·overarching IQOS brand.· The fact that we can no
`16· ·longer position the IQOS VEEV as the, you know,
`17· ·innovation leader within the sector because several
`18· ·of the -- of the technologies have been existing in
`19· ·a competitor product for a number of years.
`20· · · · · ·And I think that -- that harms not just the
`21· ·-- the standing of IQOS VEEV, but it undermines the
`22· ·entire IQOS family of -- of brand because we -- we
`23· ·don't have the opportunity to reinforce the brand
`24· ·message.
`25· · · ·Q.· Can't PMP try to position IQOS VEEV as the
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`·1· ·technology leader because of the innovations you
`·2· ·talked about earlier when you were describing what
`·3· ·was new and different about IQOS VEEV?
`·4· · · ·A.· We've embedded --
`·5· · · ·Q.· We're not preventing you from doing that,
`·6· ·are we?
`·7· · · ·A.· We've embedded technology all through the
`·8· ·different various IQOS platforms, and we've done so
`·9· ·deliberately to ensure that we have a product
`10· ·that's superior to all of the products that are on
`11· ·the market.
`12· · · · · ·And I don't think we should be deprived of
`13· ·using any of those technologies that we spent
`14· ·effort, time, money, and -- and so on into -- just
`15· ·because somebody else has choosing to -- to steal
`16· ·that technology.
`17· · · ·Q.· Well, steal is a strong word.· Let's just
`18· ·say that's contested.
`19· · · · · ·Dr. Gilchrist, is -- are you saying that
`20· ·Reynolds is doing something to prevent PMP from
`21· ·using its own patents?
`22· · · ·A.· I -- I'll go back to how -- how I answered
`23· ·before.· This is -- this is about preventing us
`24· ·from using the technology that we have invented to
`25· ·the best of our ability to help reinforce in
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`·1· ·consumers' minds that the IQOS smoke-free products
`·2· ·are the leading products in this category.· And we
`·3· ·have deliberately set out to be the leader in this
`·4· ·category.· We are the leader in this category, and
`·5· ·we will continue to be a leader in this category.
`·6· ·And we want to use each and every one of the tools
`·7· ·that we've developed in order to be able to
`·8· ·reinforce that in consumers' minds and in the
`·9· ·public's minds and in regulator's minds, as well.
`10· · · ·Q.· And I think we established before, so I
`11· ·won't belabor it.· But sitting here today, you
`12· ·don't know one way or the other whether PMP
`13· ·actually uses the technology in the three patents
`14· ·that are at issue in this case in the VEEV product.
`15· · · · · ·You just don't know, right?
`16· · · ·A.· So I mentioned I'm not a patent expert, but
`17· ·I certainly know that the feature is being -- is
`18· ·being discussed in communications with consumers
`19· ·outside of the United States.· So we talk about
`20· ·things like the leakage, the lack of variability
`21· ·puff to puff, the lack of variability cartridge to
`22· ·cartridge, et cetera.
`23· · · · · ·These are all technological features that
`24· ·we talk to consumers about to reinforce the
`25· ·innovation and technology within the IQOS
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`Page 173
`·1· ·smoke-free brand and within the IQOS brand overall.
`·2· · · ·Q.· And as far as you know, the way that PMP
`·3· ·chose to improve leakage, improve consistency puff
`·4· ·to puff, has nothing to do with these patents that
`·5· ·are being asserted in this case, as far as you
`·6· ·know, right?
`·7· · · · · ·MR. REISER:· Objection.· Mischaracterizes
`·8· ·testimony; it's asked and answered.
`·9· · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· That -- that's absolutely
`10· ·not what I said.· I said -- I said, I know that we
`11· ·are talking about this feature, but I'm not a
`12· ·patent expert so I don't know the specifics of the
`13· ·patents which are under dispute here and whether
`14· ·they are used in the IQOS just because I'm not --
`15· ·I'm not a patent expert.
`16· · · · ·
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`but I
`19· ·don't want to -- to -- to assert it because I'm not
`20· ·a patent expert.
`21· ·BY MR. VITT:
`22· · · ·Q.· So again, as far as you know, PMP could
`23· ·have used a different solution other than the
`24· ·patents to make those innovations, as far as you
`25· ·know?
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`Case 1:20-cv-00393-LMB-WEF Document 1469-3 Filed 04/05/23 Page 10 of 11 PageID#
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`·1· ·where it tells us the date it was published or
`·2· ·posted?
`·3· · · ·A.· I do.
`·4· · · ·Q.· When is that?
`·5· · · ·A.· It was Wednesday -- Wednesday, June
`·6· ·the 19th, 2019.
`·7· · · ·Q.· So do you know when IQOS was -- when
`·8· ·commercialization of IQOS began in the United
`·9· ·States?
`10· · · ·A.· It began, I believe, in late
`11· ·September 2019.
`12· · · ·Q.· So in June 2019, were IQOS devices
`13· ·available to consumers in the United States?
`14· · · ·A.· No, they were not.
`15· · · · · ·MR. REISER:· You can take that down, Bill.
`16· ·Thank you.
`17· ·BY MR. REISER:
`18· · · ·Q.·
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`·1· ·
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`.
`10· · · ·Q.· Okay.· You were asked a couple questions by
`11· ·Mr. Vitt about harm caused to PMP smoke-free
`12· ·products, including VEEV.
`13· · · · · ·Do you remember, generally?
`14· · · ·A.· Yes.
`15· · · ·Q.· Do you have a sense of how, if at all,
`16· ·VEEV's launch in the US could be harmed by damage
`17· ·to the IQOS branding?
`18· · · ·A.· I'm sorry.· Could you repeat the question?
`19· · · ·Q.· Sure.
`20· · · · · ·Do you have any sense of whether VEEV's
`21· ·launch in the US might be harmed by damage to the
`22· ·IQOS brand?
`23· · · ·A.· Oh, okay.· I misheard you.
`24· · · · · ·So -- so we worked -- I think as I
`25· ·mentioned in my earlier testimony, we worked really
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`Page 180
`·1· ·hard to ensure that we created this umbrella brand
`·2· ·for all of the smoke-free products that's -- that's
`·3· ·IQOS.
`·4· · · · · ·IQOS stands for the most leading
`·5· ·technology, the innovation, science, following the
`·6· ·rules, and -- and so on.· So, you know, any damage
`·7· ·that's done to the IQOS brand today, damages the
`·8· ·ability to maintain that brand and brand voice in
`·9· ·-- in the future.
`10· · · · · ·So it's something that we work really hard
`11· ·to make sure that we can maintain over time and
`12· ·make sure that we are bringing the best technology
`13· ·to adults who smoke in order that we continue to be
`14· ·the leader, not just from a -- from a revenue
`15· ·perspective, but also from a reputational and from
`16· ·a consumer perspective, as well.
`17· · · ·Q.· Thank you.
`18· · · · · ·MR. REISER:· Bill, could we pull up
`19· ·Exhibit 5?· I think I have this number.
`20· ·BY MR. REISER:
`21· · · ·Q.· So let me just go back before we get to
`22· ·Exhibit 5.
`23· · · · · ·Do you have a sense -- in terms of this
`24· ·harm to VEEV, do you have a sense about it from a
`25· ·distribution perspective?· Does that make sense to
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`Page 181
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`·1· ·you?
`·2· · · ·A.· Maybe ask that again.· I'm sorry.
`·3· · · ·Q.· Yeah.· Maybe -- maybe I'll come back to
`·4· ·that.
`·5· · · · · ·Let's take a look, please, at Exhibit 5,
`·6· ·page 41.· And thank you.
`·7· · · · · ·Do you recall, toward the end of your
`·8· ·testimony from Mr. Vitt, you were asking questions
`·9· ·about possible harms to VEEV relating to
`10· ·infringement.· You were directed to this part of
`11· ·the document.· You expressed a desire to take a
`12· ·look at the document a little bit more generally,
`13· ·and I think it's fair to say you were dissuaded
`14· ·from doing so.
`15· · · · · ·I wanted you to have the opportunity to
`16· ·look at the document now and just add any
`17· ·additional thoughts to the answer you gave to
`18· ·Mr. Vitt's question.
`19· · · ·A.· So could I go up in the document just to
`20· ·refresh my memory of just what comes before?· Oh,
`21· ·yes.· So here's another good example.
`22· · · · · ·So you know, VEEV -- the -- the way VEEV is
`23· ·being positioned as being the most advanced
`24· ·electronic cigarette with -- that contains multiple
`25· ·different new technologies that help to -- to
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`Page 199
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`·1· ·-- of somebody.
`·2· · · · · ·MR. VITT:· Okay.· Thank you.
`·3· · · · · ·THE VIDEOGRAPHER:· Nothing further then,
`·4· ·Counsel?
`·5· · · · · ·MR. VITT:· Nothing further.
`·6· · · · · ·MR. REISER:· Nope.
`·7· · · · · ·Thank you, Dr. Gilchrist.
`·8· · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Thank you.
`·9· · · · · ·THE VIDEOGRAPHER:· This marks the end of
`10· ·today's testimony.· We are going off the record.
`11· ·The time is 5:52 p.m.
`12· · · (Whereupon proceedings concluded at 5:52 p.m.)
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`·1· · · · · · · · · REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE
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`·2
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`·3· · · · · ·I, NICOLE HATLER, a Shorthand Reporter,
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`·4· ·State of California, do hereby certify:
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`·5· · · · · ·That MOIRA GILCHRIST, in the foregoing
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`·6· ·deposition named, was present and by me sworn as a
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`·7· ·witness in the above-entitled action at the time
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`·8· ·and place therein specified;
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`·9· · · · · ·That said deposition was taken before me at
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`10· ·said time and place, and was taken down in
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`11· ·shorthand by me, a Certified Shorthand Reporter of
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`12· ·the State of California, and was thereafter
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`13· ·transcribed into typewriting, and that the
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`14· ·foregoing transcript constitutes a full, true and
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`15· ·correct report of said deposition and of the
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`16· ·proceedings that took place;
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`17· · · · · ·That before completion of the proceedings,
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`18· ·review of the transcript [] was [X] was not
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`19· ·requested.
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`20· · · · · ·IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunder
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`21· ·subscribed my hand this 22nd day of June 2021.
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`22
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`23· · · · · · · · · · · ________________________
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`· · · · · · · · · · · · NICOLE HATLER, CSR NO. 13730
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`24· · · · · · · · · · · State of California
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`25
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