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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
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` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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`________________________________
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`CHANEL, INC.,
`
` Petitioner,
`
` v. Case No.
`
`MOLO DESIGN, LTD., IPR2021-00543
`
` Respondent.
`
`________________________________
`
` VIDEOCONFERENCE DEPOSITION OF
`
` ALAN BALL
`
`DATE: Tuesday, March 21, 2023
`
`TIME: 8:45 a.m.
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`LOCATION: Remote Proceeding
`
` Minneapolis, MN 55402
`
`REPORTED BY: Tina Nelson, Notary Public
`
`JOB NO.: 5793517
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`Veritext Legal Solutions
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`Petitioner Chanel, Inc. Exhibit 1048, Page 1
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`
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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`________________________________
`
`CHANEL, INC.,
`
` Petitioner,
`
` v. Case No.
`
`MOLO DESIGN, LTD., IPR2021-00543
`
` Respondent.
`
`________________________________
`
` VIDEOCONFERENCE DEPOSITION OF
`
` ALAN BALL
`
`DATE: Tuesday, March 21, 2023
`
`TIME: 8:45 a.m.
`
`LOCATION: Remote Proceeding
`
` Minneapolis, MN 55402
`
`REPORTED BY: Tina Nelson, Notary Public
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`JOB NO.: 5793517
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`Petitioner Chanel, Inc. Exhibit 1048, Page 1
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`Page 2
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` A P P E A R A N C E S
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`ON BEHALF OF PETITIONER CHANEL, INC.:
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` SHANNON L. BJORKLUND, ESQUIRE
`
` (by videoconference)
`
` Dorsey & Whitney LLP
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` 50 South 6th Street, Suite 1500
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` Minneapolis, MN 55402
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` bjorklund.shannon@dorsey.com
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` (612) 492-6636
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`ON BEHALF OF RESPONDENT MOLO DESIGN, LTD.:
`
` CONOR CIVINS, ESQUIRE (by videoconference)
`
` BRIAN H. TOMPKINS, ESQUIRE
`
` Bracewell LLP
`
` 111 Congress Avenue, Suite 2300
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` Austin, TX, 78701
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` conor.civins@bracewell.com
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` (512) 494-3631
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`Petitioner Chanel, Inc. Exhibit 1048, Page 2
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`
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` I N D E X
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`EXAMINATION: PAGE
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` By Ms. Bjorklund 5
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`Page 3
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` E X H I B I T S
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`NO. DESCRIPTION PAGE
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`Exhibit 1 366 Ex. 1001 - US7866366B2 8
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`Exhibit 2 666 Ex. 1001 - US8561666B2 8
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`Exhibit 3 134 Ex. 1001 - US9797134B2 8
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`Exhibit 4 161 Ex. 1001 - US9689161B1 9
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`Exhibit 5 366 Ex. 2010 - Declaration of
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` Alan Ball '366 9
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`Exhibit 6 666 Ex. 2010 - Declaration of
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` Alan Ball '666 10
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`Exhibit 7 134 Ex. 2010 - Declaration of
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` Alan Ball '134 10
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`Exhibit 8 161 Ex. 2010 - Declaration of
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` Alan Ball '161 10
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` (Exhibits attached.)
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`Petitioner Chanel, Inc. Exhibit 1048, Page 3
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`
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`Page 4
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` P R O C E E D I N G S
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` THE REPORTER: Good morning. My name
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`is Tina Nelson; I am the reporter assigned by Veritext
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`to take the record of this proceeding. We are now on
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`the record at 8:45 a.m.
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` This is the deposition of Alan Ball
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`taken in the matter of Chanel, Inc. vs. molo design,
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`limited on Tuesday, March 21, 2023 remote via Zoom.
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` I am a notary authorized to take
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`acknowledgments and administer oaths in Minnesota.
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`Parties agree that I will swear in the witness
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`remotely.
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` Additionally, absent an objection on
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`the record before the witness is sworn, all parties
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`and the witness understand and agree that any
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`certified transcript produced from the recording of
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`this proceeding:
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` - is intended for all uses permitted
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` under applicable procedural and
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` evidentiary rules and laws in the same
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` manner as a deposition recorded by
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` stenographic means; and
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` - shall constitute written stipulation
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` of such.
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` At this time, will everyone in
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`Petitioner Chanel, Inc. Exhibit 1048, Page 4
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`attendance please identify yourself for the record?
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`MS. BJORKLUND: Good morning.
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`Shannon Bjorklund from Dorsey & Whitney, appearing on
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`behalf of petitioner Chanel, Incorporated.
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`MR. CIVINS: Conor Civins with
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`Bracewell, appearing on behalf of molo.
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`THE WITNESS: Alan Ball, expert.
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`THE REPORTER: Thank you. Hearing no
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`objection, I'll now swear in the witness. Mr. Ball,
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`please raise your right hand.
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`WHEREUPON,
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`ALAN BALL,
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`called as a witness and having been first duly sworn
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`to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the
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`truth, was examined and testified as follows:
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`EXAMINATION
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`BY MS. BJORKLUND:
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`Q Good morning, Mr. Ball.
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`A Good morning.
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`Q Have you had your deposition taken before?
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`A Yes.
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`Q Approximately how many times?
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`A I kind of lost count. It's probably over
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`25.
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`Q Great. So I think you know the rules for
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`www.veritext.com
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`Petitioner Chanel, Inc. Exhibit 1048, Page 5
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`
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`Page 6
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`depositions, but I'll go over them just so our record
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`is clear. As Ms. Nelson said, you need to answer
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`verbally with words, not an uh-huh, uh-uh, or shakes
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`of head. Do you understand that?
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` A Yes, I do.
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` Q We should try not to speak over each other,
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`and I think we're doing pretty well so far, to make it
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`easier for Ms. Nelson to record everything. Do you
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`understand?
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` A Yes.
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` Q If you don't understand one of my questions,
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`please let me know because if you answer, I will
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`assume that you understood the question. Is that
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`fair?
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` A Could you repeat that?
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` Q Sure. If you don't understand a question,
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`please let me know. If you answer the question, I
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`will assume you understood it. Is that fair?
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` A Yeah. I'll only ask a question if I think
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`that I understand it.
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` Q You'll only answer a question if you think
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`you understand it?
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` A Yeah. I'm not going to answer a question if
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`I don't understand what you're asking.
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` Q Great. That's what I would like. So before
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`Petitioner Chanel, Inc. Exhibit 1048, Page 6
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`Page 7
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`this deposition started, we ensured that you have
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`access to Exhibit Share which means you can pull up
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`any of the exhibits I'm using at any time and review
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`whatever portion you want, regardless of whether a
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`portion -- a specific portion is being shared on the
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`screen. Is your Exhibit Share working now?
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` A It was a moment ago. I think it looks
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`exactly the same way, so I'm assuming it's still
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`working.
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` Q Okay. If it's not working at any point,
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`please let me know. And of course, if you need a
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`break, just let me know. We'll take a break. I just
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`ask that you not take a break while a question is
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`pending. Sound fair?
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` A Sounds good.
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` Q All right. Is there any reason you can't
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`testify truthfully and accurately today?
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` A No.
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` Q All right. Do you understand that today
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`you're testifying with respect to four different IPRs,
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`numbers IPR2022543, 544, 545, and 546?
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` A Yes.
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` Q And these four proceedings relate to patents
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`I'm going to refer to by the last three numbers: the
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`366 patent, the 666 patent, the 161 patent, and the
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`Petitioner Chanel, Inc. Exhibit 1048, Page 7
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`134 patent, correct?
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` A That sounds right.
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` Q Introduced already into the record are eight
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`exhibits. And I'll just go through to identify them.
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`I'd invite you to look at them if you like, so that
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`you can confirm that I'm describing them
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`appropriately. So first, Exhibit 1 to this deposition
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`is Exhibit 1001 in the 543 IPR, and it is a copy of
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`the 366 patent. Do you see that?
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` (Exhibit 1 was marked for
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` identification.)
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` A Yes.
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` Q Exhibit 2 was Exhibit 1001 in the 544
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`proceeding and is a copy of the 666 patent. Do you
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`see that?
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` (Exhibit 2 was marked for
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` identification.)
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` A Yes.
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` Q Exhibit 3 was Exhibit 1001 in the 546 IPR
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`proceeding and is a copy of the 134 patent. Do you
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`see that?
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` (Exhibit 3 was marked for
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` identification.)
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` A Yes.
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` Q And Exhibit 4 is Exhibit 1001 in the 545 IPR
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`www.veritext.com
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`Veritext Legal Solutions
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`Petitioner Chanel, Inc. Exhibit 1048, Page 8
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`and is a copy of the 161 patent. Do you see that?
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` (Exhibit 4 was marked for
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` identification.)
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` A Yes.
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` Q So to summarize, Exhibits 1 through 4 are
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`the four patents. Exhibit 5 is Exhibit 2010 from the
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`543 proceeding, which is a copy of your declaration
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`with respect to the 366 patent. Do you see that?
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` (Exhibit 5 was marked for
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` identification.)
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` A Yeah. Should I open it?
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` Q I want you to take a look at it to make sure
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`we're talking about the same document, but I'll ask
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`more detailed questions later.
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` A Okay. Well, I -- I see the thumbnail in the
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`name, and it seems to correspond to your description.
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` Q If you click on the link, it should open the
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`separate document in a new tab and you can scroll
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`through the entire documents.
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` A Okay. It seems to be a PDF of my report. I
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`also have my reports here.
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` Q Excellent. So you have a hardcopy of your
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`reports in front of you?
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` A I do.
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` Q Are your hardcopies clean, or do they have
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`www.veritext.com
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`888-391-3376
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`Veritext Legal Solutions
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`Petitioner Chanel, Inc. Exhibit 1048, Page 9
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`notes and highlighting on them?
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` A They are pristine. Nothing's on them.
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` Q Excellent. Okay. So then turning to
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`Exhibit 6, Exhibit 6 was Exhibit 2010 in the 544 IPR
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`proceeding, which is a copy of your declaration with
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`respect to the 666 patent. Do you see that?
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` (Exhibit 6 was marked for
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` identification.)
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` A I'm looking at that. Okay. Yes.
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` Q Exhibit 7 was Exhibit 2010 in the 546 IPR
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`proceeding and is a copy of your declaration with
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`respect to the 134 patent. Do you see that?
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` (Exhibit 7 was marked for
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` identification.)
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` A Yes.
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` Q And finally, Exhibit 8 is Exhibit 2010 and
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`the 555 -- or sorry, 545 IPR proceeding, and it's a
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`copy of your declaration with respect to the 161
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`patent. Do you see that?
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` (Exhibit 8 was marked for
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` identification.)
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` A Yes. Yes, I do.
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` Q Great. If you ever need to refer to one of
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`your reports, please do so. I just ask you to let me
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`know when you're doing that so I can follow along as
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`www.veritext.com
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`Veritext Legal Solutions
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`Petitioner Chanel, Inc. Exhibit 1048, Page 10
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`Page 11
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`well. Is that fair?
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` A Yes.
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` Q So I first want to talk about the 366 patent
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`and in particular your opinion with respect to
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`secondary consideration. So in this IPR proceeding,
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`the challenge claims of the 366 patent are claims 1
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`through 3, 5 through 11, 13, 16, 18, 20 to 25, and 27.
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`Do you understand that?
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` A I'm going to look at my report.
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` Q Yes.
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` A And I wanted just to clarify. I said they
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`were pristine, but I did write a patent number. So I
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`apologize if I misled you on that one. But other than
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`that, I haven't made any notes or marks on them.
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`Shannon, could you repeat the question that you asked?
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` Q Sure. Why don't I ask a different question?
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`Let's look at paragraph 4 of your report. What are
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`the challenged claims with respect to the 366 patent?
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` A It's my understanding, and I wrote in the
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`paragraph 4, that it's claims 1 through 3, 5 through
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`11, 13, 16, 18, 20 through 25, and 27.
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` Q Is it your opinion that molo's softwall
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`product is an embodiment of every challenge claim of
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`the 366 patent?
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` MR. CIVINS: Objection, form, calls for
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`Petitioner Chanel, Inc. Exhibit 1048, Page 11
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`Page 12
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`a legal conclusion.
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` A Could you repeat the question?
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` Q Sure. Is it your opinion that molo's
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`softwall product is an embodiment of every challenge
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`claim of the 366 patent?
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` MR. CIVINS: Objection, form, calls for
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`legal conclusion.
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` A I addressed this in my report, Page 74, in
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`the section that is titled The Molo Softwall Products
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`are Coextensive with the 366 Claimed Invention. I am
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`aware that there are different versions of softwall,
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`like, some versions have used Velcro and some use
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`magnets later on. But generally speaking, I believe
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`that the softwall products are coextensive with the
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`challenge claims as I've described in my back [ph].
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` Q And what do you mean by coextensive?
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` A The -- those -- those claims read on the
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`softwall products.
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` Q And when you say those claims, you mean the
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`challenge claims of the 366 patent read on the
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`softwall products?
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` MR. CIVINS: Objection, form.
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` A I believe so.
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` Q Do you know that coextensive is a legal term
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`of art in this context?
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`Petitioner Chanel, Inc. Exhibit 1048, Page 12
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`Page 13
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` A I'm not a lawyer. But my understanding of
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`how I use that term in this section is whether or not
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`the softwall products or whether those claims read on
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`the softwall -- where -- wall products. So I guess --
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`I guess my understanding is that the softwall
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`products, you know, would embody those claims.
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` Q So all of the challenge claims read on
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`softwall products, although they might not all read on
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`the same individual softwall product. Is that what
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`you're saying?
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` MR. CIVINS: Objection, form.
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` A I think what I'm saying is that it's my
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`understanding that currently the softwall products
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`might have a magnet on the end where it can be formed
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`into a tubular configuration to provide, you know,
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`structural stability. Claim 27 says it's an assembly
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`according to claim 25 wherein the fasteners are
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`hook-and-loop fasteners. So that particular model of
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`softwall, I guess, wouldn't read onto claim 27. But I
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`do know that there were earlier versions that did have
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`hook-and-loop fasteners. So I'm doing the best I can
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`to understand what you're asking. Generally speaking,
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`the softwall products read on those claims, but
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`there -- there may be some exceptions.
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` Q Are you aware of any exceptions?
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`Petitioner Chanel, Inc. Exhibit 1048, Page 13
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`Page 14
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` A Yes.
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` Q What is an exception?
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` A There are softwall products that don't have
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`hook-and-loop fasteners. They have magnets.
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` Q So you're aware of some claims that read on
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`one particular softwall but not another softwall,
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`correct?
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` A I don't understand that.
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` Q Sure. Are you aware of any of the challenge
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`claims that do not read upon any softwall product?
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` MR. CIVINS: Objection, form.
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` A I am not quite sure how to answer that
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`question without doing a little bit more analysis in
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`regards to the size. I know that there are, one, two,
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`three, four -- five claims about size. On Page 77,
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`you can see claim 20, 21, 22, 23, and 24 all relate to
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`the size of the panels and I've listed the softwall
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`products below and their following sizes. I believe
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`that all of the claims read on at least one of those,
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`but I'm not -- I'm not entirely sure, sitting here
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`today. I don't remember. So if -- I'd be happy to go
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`through this in a little more detail and give you a
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`more precise answer, or I can just say I -- I think,
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`generally speaking, they do, but I'm not absolutely
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`sure that every one of those claims reads onto one of
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`these products.
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` Q I won't ask you to do that analysis now if
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`you haven't already done it. I'd like to look now at
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`Exhibit 6, which is a copy of your report for the 666
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`patent. Do you have Exhibit 6 in front of you?
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` A Not yet. I'm sorry. Exhibit 6?
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` Q Yes, which is the copy of your declaration
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`with respect to the 666 patent.
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` A Okay. That -- the previous one was 5,
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`right?
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` Q Correct.
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` A Okay. I have 6 in front of me.
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` Q So directing to paragraph 3 of Exhibit 6,
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`you understand that the challenge claims of the 666
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`patent are claims 21 to 23, correct?
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` A That's my understanding.
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` Q Is it your opinion that molo's softwall
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`product is an embodiment of every challenge claim of
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`the 666 patent?
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` MR. CIVINS: Objection, form, calls for
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`a legal conclusion.
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` A Could you repeat the question?
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` Q Sure. Is it your opinion that molo's
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`softwall product is an embodiment of every challenge
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`claim of the 666 patent?
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`Petitioner Chanel, Inc. Exhibit 1048, Page 15
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` MR. CIVINS: Same objection.
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` A I think I have a similar concern from the
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`previous one in the sense that there are different
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`models of softwall. So, obviously if a claim involves
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`a light and that particular softwall model does not
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`have a light, then it wouldn't embody that claim. But
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`I do believe there are softwall products that practice
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`all of those challenged claims.
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` Q I'd like to look at page 41 of your report.
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` A I am on Page 41.
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` Q Great. So if you look at paragraphs 166 and
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`167, paragraph 166 quotes the language of independent
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`claim 21. Do you see that?
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` A Yes.
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` Q And paragraph 167 states, "Softwall
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`practices Claim 21." Do you see that?
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` A Yes.
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` Q Is that statement correct?
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` A Yes. Generally speaking, I believe it's
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`correct. I mean, there may be a version without a
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`light that wouldn't practice a claim that refers to
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`light. But generally speaking, yes, I think that's
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`correct.
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` Q Okay. Paragraph 168 quotes the language of
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`claim 22. Do you see that?
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` A Yes.
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` Q And then paragraph 169 says, "Softwall
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`practices Claim 23." Did you intend to say Softwall
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`practices Claim 22?
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` A Yeah. Yeah. I -- I do think that's what I
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`intended, and that was a good catch. Yes.
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` Q So you would agree that softwall practices
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`Claim 22?
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` A Yeah. There's a softwall model that
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`practices Claim 22, yes.
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` Q And paragraph 170 quotes the language of
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`claim 23, correct?
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` A Yes. And I know what you're going to ask
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`next.
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` Q Well, go ahead and tell me.
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` A I think you're going to point out that line
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`171 refers to 24, and you're going to ask if that's
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`supposed to be 23.
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` Q What's the answer to that question?
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` A Yeah.
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` Q Great, okay. So in this section you're
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`intending to opine that softwall practices claims 21,
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`22, and 23 of the 666 patent, correct?
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` A Yeah, there's a model of softwall that
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`practices those claims.
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` Q All right. What information regarding
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`softwall did you consider in coming to this opinion?
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` MR. CIVINS: Objection, vague.
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` A I'm not quite sure what you're asking,
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`Shannon. Can you clarify?
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` Q Sure. What information or what source did
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`you consider in forming an opinion about whether
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`softwall practices the claims of the 666 patent?
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` A Well, I carefully analyzed the product in
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`person. I reviewed different size models of softwall,
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`I reviewed different softwalls and different
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`materials, I looked at other products like softblock,
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`I looked at "li" -- lit -- lit versions and unlit
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`versions, and I mean, I -- you know, I received a
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`sample to -- to review, and I also looked at them in a
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`showroom. I very carefully analyzed the softwall
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`products, which I don't think Mr. Rake ever did.
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` Q All right. I want to look at Exhibit 7,
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`which is your declaration with respect to the 134
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`patent.
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` A Yeah. I have that.
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` Q Excellent. In this IPR proceeding, the
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`challenge claims of the 134 patent are claims 1 and 4
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`through 6. Is that correct?
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` A Yes.
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`Petitioner Chanel, Inc. Exhibit 1048, Page 18
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` Q Is it your opinion that molo's softwall
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`product is an embodiment of every challenge claim of
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`the 134 patent?
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` MR. CIVINS: Objection, form, calls for
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`legal conclusion.
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` A Yes. There's models of softwall that
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`practice all of those claims.
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` Q And in coming to this conclusion, did you
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`rely on the same information you described with
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`respect to the 666 patent?
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` A Yes.
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` Q All right. Turning to Exhibit 8, which is
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`your declaration with respect to the 161 patent.
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` A Yes.
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` Q Great. What are the challenge claims of the
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`161 patent?
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` A One through 10, 12, 14, 18 through 25, and
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`27.
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` Q Is it your opinion that molo's softwall
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`product is an embodiment of every challenge claim of
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`the 161 patent?
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` MR. CIVINS: Objection, form.
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` A Could you repeat the question, please?
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` Q Sure. Is it your opinion that molo's
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`softwall product is an embodiment of every challenge
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`Petitioner Chanel, Inc. Exhibit 1048, Page 19
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`claim of the 161 patent?
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` MR. CIVINS: Objection, form.
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` A Yes. There are models of softwall that
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`practice those claims -- all of those claims.
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` Q In your report you cite MoMA's 2005 decision
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`to add softwall to its permanent collection as
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`evidence of industry praise for softwall. Is that
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`correct?
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` A Can you repeat the question?
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` Q Sure. In your report, and if you're still
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`looking at Exhibit 8 it'll be around paragraph 255,
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`you cite MoMA's 2005 decision to add softwall to its
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`permanent collection as evidence of industry praise
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`for softwall, correct?
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` A Are you asking me whether I cite MoMA's
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`including softwall in their permanent collection as
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`one of the secondary considerations of
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`non-obviousness?
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` Q Yes.
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` A Yes. I -- I do mention that here.
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` Q Did the version of softwall acquired by MoMA
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`in 2005 have a pair of flexible supports at opposite
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`ends of the core?
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` A Yes.
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` Q What information did you consider in forming
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`Petitioner Chanel, Inc. Exhibit 1048, Page 20
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`that opinion?
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` A I saw images of it, and I could recognize
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`that aspect of it.
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` Q All right. Is one of the images at
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`paragraph 257 of your report?
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` A Yes. I believe so.
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` Q I'm going to share my screen so we can look
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`at it together. Can you see my screen?
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` A I can.
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` Q Is this one of the images of the softwall at
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`MoMA that you were referring to?
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` A I believe so.
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` Q So how can you tell that this softwall has
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`flexible supports at opposite ends of the core?
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` A I can see it on the right side of the wall.
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`There's a dark or black strip that goes from the
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`bottom to the top of that right edge of the wall, and
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`I'm aware that, you know, early versions of softwall
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`had that panel in a contrasting color. And so what I
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`see there is the end panel folded into a circular or
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`tubular configuration that enhances the rigidity of
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`that panel that allows it to be freestanding. Without
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`that, it's not freestanding.
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` Q Did the version of the softwall acquired by
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`MoMA in 2005 have magnetic fasteners?
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` A I don't know.
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` Q Did the version of softwall acquired by MoMA
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`in 2005 have a passage with LED lights?
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` A I don't recall. I do remember the early
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`versions of the softwall had hook-and-loop fasteners
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`to hold the tubular configuration. I believe that's
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`what you're seeing here in this picture. I can't
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`recall about the lighting.
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` Q Okay. Did this version of softwall acquired
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`by MoMA in 2005 have vertical supports within the
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`voids of the cellular core?
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` Would you like me to repeat the question?
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` A In a minute.
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` Q Okay.
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` A Sure. Sure. Could you read it again?
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` Q Sure. Did the version of the softwall
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`acquired by MoMA in 2005 have vertical supports within
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`voids of the cellular core?
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` A I don't believe it did, but it did
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`accommodate that. In other words it could be used
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`with the vertical support because it had those, you
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`know, vertical voids, so it could accommodate those.
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`But I don't think, to -- to my knowledge, I -- I
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`actually don't know whether it had them in this photo.
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`I mean, as you see it in this photo, those wouldn't be
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`necessary because the tubular configurations on the
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`end would provide enough structure that it would be
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`freestanding.
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` Q And in your opinion, if it required the
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`vertical supports, it wouldn't meet the definition of
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`freestanding?
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` MR. CIVINS: Objection, form.
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` A I don't think I said that.
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` Q Right. I'm asking you if that's your
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`opinion.
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` MR. CIVINS: Same objection.
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` A I don't understand.
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` Q Do you have an opinion as to whether if a
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`softwall requires vertical supports, it is
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`freestanding?
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` MR. CIVINS: Objection to form.
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` A I don't know. That seems very vague. I'd
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`be hesitant to answer that question as you posed it.
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` Q I think I heard you say earlier that
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`something that is freestanding does not require
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`external supports. Is that correct?
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` MR. CIVINS: Objection to form.
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` A I don't know. Maybe we should look at the
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`transcript to read that back so I can see exactly what
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`I said.
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`Petitioner Chanel, Inc. Exhibit 1048, Page 23
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` Q All right, fair enough. Let me rephrase.
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`Is it your opinion that something that is freestanding
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`does not require external supports?
`
` A Yeah. I -- I think that's an aspect of
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`being freestanding is it stands by itself. It doesn't
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`require something external to itself to stand. You
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`know, all of the, you know, softhousing references,
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`they didn't stand up freestanding. They would fall
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`over. You know, so it's important that a wall is
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`freestanding, and that's why the end panel is
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`manipulated into a tubular structure, because it gives
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`the support that allows it to be freestanding.
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` Q If we look at paragraph 246, and following
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`of your report, you talk about the Index Award. Do
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`you see that?
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` A Yes.
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` Q And you are referring to the Index Award as
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`evidence of industry acceptance and praise for the
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`softwall, correct?
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` A Yes. It's a very prestigious award.
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` Q Did the version of the softwall that
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`received the 2005 Index Award have a pair of flexible
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`supports at opposite ends of the core?
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` A I don't recall.
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` Q What information did you consider with
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`Petitioner Chanel, Inc. Exhibit 1048, Page 24
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`Page 25
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`respect to the softwall that was part of the index
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`Award?
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` MR. CIVINS: Objection, form.
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` A I looked at the Index Award website, which I
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`had a listing of -- of winners or past -- past award
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`winners.
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` Q And you viewed the image that was on the
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`Index Project website. Is that right?
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` A Yes.
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` Q Did you review anything else other than the
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`Index Project's website?
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` A I don't recall anything other than the Index
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`Project website, and maybe there's a number of molo
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`softwall product webpages on their website, and I
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`recall that there was a website or a section of that
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`that listed a number of the awards that the products
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`had won. So I might have looked at that, too.
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` Q To your memory, did the molo website have
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`images of the specific products submitted for each
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`award?
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` A I don't recall.
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` Q And would the molo website have been cited
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`in your list of materials considered?
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` A Yes.
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` Q So did this version of the softwall that
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`Petitioner Chanel, Inc. Exhibit 1048, Page 25
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`received the 2005 Index Award have a passage
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`containing LED lights?
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` A I don't recall.
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` Q Did the version of the softwall that
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`received the 2005 Index Award have vertical supports
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`within voids of the cellular core?
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` A It was my understanding that it would
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`accommodate vertical supports, but I don't recall
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`whether it had it. I -- I would tend to think no, but
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`I don't recall for sure.
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` Q Why would you tend to think no?
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` A Because the image there shows it
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`freestanding, and in that situation, it -- those
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`aren't required. But I -- I don't "rea" -- recall the
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`details.
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` Q So around paragraph 261 of Exhibit 8, your
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`161 report or declaration, you mentioned other awards.
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`And you cite awards including MoMA, Azure, NeoCon,
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`AIT, ADEX, and FRAME. Do you see that?
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` A I do.
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` Q Did the version of softwall that received
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`these other awards have a pair of flexible supports at
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`opposite ends of the core?
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` A I don't know.
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` Q Did the version of softwall that received
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`Petitioner Chanel, Inc. Exhibit 1048, Page 26
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`Page 27
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`these other awards have magnetic fasteners?
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` A I don't know.
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` Q Did the version of softwall that received
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`these awards have vertical supports within voids of
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`the cellular core?
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` A I believe they could accommodate them. I
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`don't know whether they had them or not. I mean, I
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`think these might be good questions for you to ask the
`
`inventors later this week, because they would be more
`
`familiar with exactly what they had.
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