UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`---------------------------x
`APPLE INC.,
`:
`Petitioner,
`:
`:
`V.
`:
`MPH TECHNOLOGIES OY,
`:
`Patent Owner,
`---------------------------x
`
`CASE NOS:
`IPR2019-00819
`IPR2019-00820
`
`PETITIONER'S MOTION TO STRIKE
`Conducted Virtually
`Wednesday, May 27, 2020
`12:30 p.m. PST
`
`Reported By: Patrick J. Heard
`Job No.: 300751
`Pages: 1 - 18
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`EX1023
`Apple v. MPH
`IPR2019-00820
`
`1
`
`
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`---------------------------x
`APPLE INC.,
`:
`Petitioner,
`:
`:
`V.
`:
`MPH TECHNOLOGIES OY,
`:
`Patent Owner,
`---------------------------x
`
`CASE NOS:
`IPR2019-00819
`IPR2019-00820
`
`PETITIONER'S MOTION TO STRIKE
`Conducted Virtually
`Wednesday, May 27, 2020
`12:30 p.m. PST
`
`Reported By: Patrick J. Heard
`Job No.: 300751
`Pages: 1 - 18
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`EX1023
`Apple v. MPH
`IPR2019-00820
`
`1
`
`
`
`Transcript of Teleconference
`Conducted on May 27, 2020
`
`APPEARANCES
`
`2
`
`ON BEHALF OF PETITIONER:
`
`DANIEL S. BLOCK, ESQUIRE
`MICHAEL D. SPECHT, ESQUIRE
`STERNE, KESSLER, GOLDSTEIN & FOX, PLLC
`1100 New York Avenue, Northwest
`Washington, DC 20005
`202.371.2600
`
`ON BEHALF OF PATENT OWNER:
`JAMES T. CARMICHAEL, ESQUIRE
`STEPHEN T. SCHREINER, ESQUIRE
`CARMICHAEL IP, PLLC
`8000 Towers Crescent Drive
`13th Floor
`Tysons Corner, Virginia 22182
`703.646.9250
`
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`Transcript of Teleconference
`Conducted on May 27, 2020
`
`3
`
` JUDGE HAMANN: Good afternoon.
` This call is in IPR2019-00819 and -00820,
`Apple Inc. v MPH Technologies Oy.
` I'm Judge Hamann.
` Also on the line are Judges Jivani and
`Margolies.
` I'd like to begin by petitioner identifying
`who is on the line on his behalf.
` MR. BLOCK: Good afternoon, Your Honor.
` This is Daniel Block of the law firm of Sterne
`Kessler on behalf of Apple.
` With me today on the phone is Michael Specht,
`also of Sterne Kessler. I'll be doing the argument.
` JUDGE HAMANN: Anyone else for petitioner?
` MR. BLOCK: And, Your Honor, one other point.
`There is a court reporter on the line as well.
` JUDGE HAMANN: Okay. I'd ask that the parties
`arrange to have a transcript filed as soon as
`reasonable.
` MR. BLOCK: Okay.
` JUDGE HAMANN: And for the patent owner,
`please identify who is on the line on the court's
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`4
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`behalf.
` MR. SCHREINER: Good afternoon, Your Honor.
` This is Steven Schreiner from Carmichael IP on
`behalf of MPH Technologies.
` I'm joined by my colleague, James Carmichael,
`of Carmichael IP, also representing MPH Technologies.
` JUDGE HAMANN: And forgive me. Schreiner?
` MR. SCHREINER: I'm sorry. Schreiner,
`S-c-h-r-e-i-n-e-r.
` JUDGE HAMANN: Thank you. Sorry about that.
` So that's everyone for the parties who have
`been identified?
` MR. SCHREINER: Correct.
` MR. BLOCK: Yes, Your Honor, for petitioner.
` JUDGE HAMANN: Okay. My understanding is
`we're here at petitioner's request. So let me have
`petitioner begin.
` MR. BLOCK: Thank you, Your Honor.
` And again, Daniel Block for Apple Inc.
` Your Honor, as I already now mentioned, we're
`requesting a motion to strike in this case. It's a
`narrow motion to strike. It's a narrow motion to
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`Transcript of Teleconference
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`5
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`strike just for a single section of the sur reply,
`Section 2.
` And if Your Honors don't feel that's
`appropriate, in the alternative, we'd ask for an
`additional sur-sur reply, a short sur-sur reply to
`address the new arguments that patent owner raised in
`the sur reply.
` Your Honors, the Trial Practice Guide says a
`sur reply should be in the scope of the reply. And it
`actually gives, I think, a very appropriate example in
`here, which is on page 81 of the Trial Practice Guide.
` And it says, "For example, where reply clearly
`relies on a new theory not included in the prior
`briefing, striking the portion of the brief containing
`that theory may be appropriate."
` And that's precisely the situation that we
`have here.
` MPH is raising a brand new theory in their sur
`reply that a person of ordinary skill in the art would
`not combine the two references because of some alleged
`security flaw.
` And in fact, if you look at the sur reply -- I
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`6
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`believe it's on page 5 of the first footnote -- MPH
`concedes that it is, in fact, a new theory.
` They say on page 5 in that footnote -- they
`state petitioner allegedly was aware of that flaw,
`which is not true, but neither the reply or its expert
`supplemental declaration addressed that security flaw.
` So we have the petitioner -- the patent owner,
`rather, admitting that that was not something that was
`in the reply and this is, in fact, a new theory.
` You'll likely hear from patent owner that
`they're just responding to our arguments. And they
`may point you to the first portion of page 2, where
`they set what I think is, in effect, a smoke screen
`here, where they try to say that they're responding to
`our apply.
` But if you look at the beginning of page 2,
`you can see how that actually cites to a portion of
`the petition, which they excerpt, which again raises
`the argument that they're allegedly responding to.
` So this is an argument that was raised in the
`petition, consistently repeated through the reply.
`And if patent owner wanted to respond to it in the way
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`7
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`they wanted to respond to it, they could have done so
`in the patent owner response.
` Instead, they waited to the sur reply, where
`we have no ability to respond.
` And for that reason, Your Honor, we think a
`motion to strike is appropriate. Again, a narrow
`motion to strike, which is just Section 2 of the sur
`reply.
` JUDGE HAMANN: This is Judge Hamann. Let me
`ask you this, if I could. You know, our Trial
`Practice Guide is pretty clear that in most cases, the
`board is capable of identifying, you know, potentially
`new issues or whatnot, and therefore, giving it the
`appropriate weight and maybe affording in light of
`(inaudible) et cetera.
` What is your response to why this is not most
`cases?
` MR. BLOCK: Well, I think, Your Honor, two
`reasons for that.
` First of all, you know, this is -- this is a
`brand new technical argument that we did not have the
`opportunity to respond to. And again, they waited
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`8
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`until the last minute to bring this up.
` And I think the reason why this is the most
`cases is we even have a situation here where patent
`owner has conceded, in effect, this is an argument
`that's a brand new argument.
` That is, I think, outside the scope of the
`rules, and that's why we believe a motion to strike is
`appropriate here.
` And one other point. And if I didn't make
`this clear, when I say "Section 2," I mean of both
`proceedings. The sur replies are effectively the same
`across both proceedings.
` JUDGE HAMANN: Okay. And I don't want to
`belabor this point, but I think it's helpful. To the
`extent this is potentially identified as a footnote,
`it seems like it's something that the board is
`certainly capable of recognizing, and evaluating
`whether it's new or not and giving it weight or not,
`depending upon whether it is in the proper scope to
`try to understand the reason that this is different
`than most cases where additional briefing or whatnot
`may be warranted when, you know, it seems clear that
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`9
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`the board can identify what the issue is and decide
`for itself whether or not it's within the proper
`scope.
` MR. BLOCK: Yeah. So I mean, this goes
`towards the fundamental aspect of our petition; right?
`So it cuts to the heart of it, whether you would
`combine the two references in the ground. And this is
`the brand new theory. And I think without the ability
`to respond to this theory -- again, it's in this last
`paper -- that leaves the motion to strike as the only
`way to cure what I think could be significant
`prejudice to petitioner here.
` You know, again, as I mentioned earlier, I
`think in the alternative, we would accept, you know,
`some short response paper. But you know, I think,
`first and foremost, a motion to strike is appropriate
`here. Because again, this is clearly outside the
`scope and it cuts to the heart of the issue, whether
`you would combine these references set forth in our
`grounds.
` JUDGE HAMANN: Patent owner, please, response.
` MR. SCHREINER: Yes, Your Honor.
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`10
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` First, two responses to petitioner's,
`counsel's, points. This is not a narrow motion to
`strike. This is 13 out of 25 pages. That's over
`50 percent of patent owner's sur reply.
` Second, patent owner didn't admit this is a
`new theory. MPH was responding to the petitioner
`finally elucidating and stating clearly what its
`petition was in the reply.
` Under the Trial Practice Guide, the patent
`owner is entitled to respond to arguments made in the
`reply, as well as to respond to petitioner's experts
`reply declaration. And patent owner did just that.
` Let me just start out with just a -- maybe
`with a minor point at this juncture, but petitioner
`has provided no justification for this late request
`for this motion to strike, which is described in the
`Trial Practice Guide as an "exceptional remedy."
` We were in contact with petitioner's counsel
`on an almost daily basis during this period. A
`meet-and-confer was held the day that the request for
`relief was required. And petitioner, for whatever
`reason, chose not to file an email request with the
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`11
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`board.
` Secondly, as Your Honor pointed out, the board
`is perfectly capable of determining if an argument is
`new or evidence is new, and assigning it the proper
`weight, if any.
` Third, the sur reply should be to reply in
`arguments raised in the reply as well as any new
`expert declaration, and patent owner did just that.
` If Your Honor has patent owner's sur reply
`available -- this would be for the 8/19 proceeding,
`paper 29. If Your Honor has that available on page 4.
`If Your Honor could indicate if and when he's able to
`locate page 4 of the sur reply...
` JUDGE HAMANN: Let me suggest this. You know,
`obviously, this call is focused on whether a motion
`should be -- is something we'll permit. So I don't
`want to get too much into the details, in a sense, of
`you know, whether or not this is, you know, a new
`theory or not a new theory. That is something, you
`know, obviously, the practice guide suggests we can
`determine at the appropriate time, in most cases, on
`our own.
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`12
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` So to the extent that, you know, I think an
`argument that, you know, this truly is new or not new,
`those arguments, at this point, may be premature, and
`not needed.
` So I don't know exactly where you're heading,
`but I would suggest this is not necessarily the forum
`to get into, you know, whether or not this is truly
`new.
` MR. SCHREINER: Where I was headed was I was
`going to point to the fact that patent owner cut and
`pasted diagrams from petitioner's supplemental
`declaration, submitted with this reply brief, and
`explained why the particular limitation that
`petitioner finally made clear had a fatal security
`defect. And so patent owner was directly responding
`to the supplemental expert declaration that the
`petitioner submitted, which is permitted, of course,
`under the Trial Practice Guide.
` Look, there was a deposition conducted in
`March in which this issue came up. Petitioner's
`counsel asked the patent owner's expert about this
`issue, this particular limitation, and elicited
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`13
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`testimony on it, which opened the door and led to
`redirect and evidence on this very issue.
` So the point is the petitioner -- and the
`petitioner was not unaware of this issue. This
`happened in March, and petitioner's reply was due in
`April. Petitioner could have addressed this issue in
`the paper, but petitioner chose not to address it in
`the reply paper and chose not to have the expert
`address it in the expert declaration.
` From patent owner's vantage, it appears that
`petitioner is trying to avoid the merits of the issue
`and trying to find a procedural loophole to have this
`entire issue excised from the record.
` And what we'd be talking about, if the board
`was to grant some sort of supplemental relief to
`petitioner, then patent owner would request a like
`paper. And so we'd be talking about a sur-sur-sur
`reply, which we would submit is inconsistent with the
`goal of IPR as being compact, streamlined proceedings
`without ad-infinitum briefing like this.
` JUDGE HAMANN: If you have nothing additional
`to what you've already covered, let me get a response
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`14
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`from petitioner and then my colleagues.
` Mr. Block.
` MR. BLOCK: Yes, Your Honor.
` Just one point on the deposition and us being
`aware of the issue. I don't think that's an accurate
`portrayal of the deposition. I think it's a very
`charitable portrayal. What actually happened was the
`vast majority of his testimony, as you can see from
`the sur reply, was elicited during redirect. And that
`was properly objected to at the time as being outside
`of the cross-examination.
` And so, you know, to the extent that the board
`decides to authorize a motion to strike, you know, we
`would likely certainly bring that into this as well,
`given the fact that the testimony elicited during
`redirect was improper as well.
` MR. SCHREINER: Your Honor, could I just add
`one response to the comment made by counsel?
` JUDGE HAMANN: Please. Go ahead.
` MR. SCHREINER: In the deposition, page 200,
`lines 19 through 20, counsel, Mr. Block, stated, "I
`will concede on the first" -- when he was objecting to
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`15
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`another matter -- "I will concede on the first point
`that he did mention something about the security
`flaw."
` Okay. This is what this is all about.
` JUDGE HAMANN: Okay. Let me, petitioner,
`Mr. Block, ask you this. If you could speak to -- and
`I think the only issue I haven't heard the parties
`address -- at least petitioner hasn't addressed the
`timeliness of the request. What is your response to
`that, Mr. Block?
` MR. BLOCK: Sure. Absolutely, Your Honor.
`I'll keep it brief, I promise.
` So, you know, with respect to the timeliness,
`we reached out to patent owner pretty -- I think
`within three days of receiving the sur reply to
`schedule a meet-and-confer. We went back and forth
`over email for several days, and we didn't end up
`meeting, I believe, because of issues with patent
`owner until the single -- the last day of this
`one-week period -- of this one-week period that's
`suggested in the Trial Practice Guide.
` I guess two points on that.
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`16
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` One, I don't think there's a rule in the Trial
`Practice Guide that says you have to make a request
`within one week. But I think more importantly, I
`don't see any prejudice that patent owner has here.
` The request was, even by their own account,
`just two days after that one-week period. And you
`know, from our perspective, it seems hard to
`understand what prejudice patent owner would have on
`just a two-day delay with respect to that time frame.
` JUDGE HAMANN: To the extent we were to allow
`the sur-sur reply, what are petitioner's thoughts as
`to a scheduling deadline?
` MR. BLOCK: Deadline, I think within five
`business days is fine. In terms of pages, five pages
`or less.
` JUDGE HAMANN: And for patent owner -- and
`this is just trying to get some information before I
`confer with my colleagues -- what would the patent
`owner's thoughts be as to the deadline?
` MR. SCHREINER: As with the original sur
`reply, patent owner would ask for five days' response.
`Both papers requested, as a matter of clarification,
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`17
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`those papers being without additional evidence.
` JUDGE HAMANN: If the parties would please
`hold while we confer.
` (Discussion off the record.)
` JUDGE HAMANN: This is Judge Hamann. I think
`the parties were holding. The panel is going to take
`this request under advisement, and so if there's
`nothing further -- is there anything from petitioner?
` MR. BLOCK: No, Your Honor.
` JUDGE HAMANN: Anything further from patent
`owner?
` MR. SCHREINER: No, Your Honor. We want to
`thank the panel for consideration today.
` MR. BLOCK: Yes. Thank you, Your Honor.
` JUDGE HAMANN: Okay. And with that, the call
`is adjourned. Thank you.
` (Proceedings adjourned at 12:53 p.m. PST)
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` CERTIFICATE
`STATE OF WASHINGTON )
`COUNTY OF KING )
` I, the undersigned Notary Public in and for the State
`of Washington, do hereby certify:
` That the annexed and foregoing deposition of each
`witness named herein was taken stenographically before me
`and reduced to typewriting under my direction.
` I further certify that I am not a relative or an
`employee or attorney or counsel of any of the parties to
`said action, or a relative or employee of any such attorney
`or counsel, and that I am not financially interested in the
`said action or the outcome thereof.
` I further certify that the teleconference, as transcribed
`is a full, true and correct transcript of the testimony,
`including questions and answers, and all objections, motions
`and exceptions of counsel made and taken at the time of the
`foregoing examination.
` IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand and
`affirmed my Official Seal this 28th day of May 2020.
`
` ______________________________
` S/C PATRICK J. HEARD, CCR, RPR
`Washington State CCR License No. 3302
`Notary expires 10/12/2020
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`
`A
`
`ability
`7:4, 9:8
`able
`11:12
`about
`4:10, 12:21,
`13:14, 13:17,
`15:2, 15:4
`absolutely
`15:11
`accept
`9:14account
`16:5accurate
`14:5across
`8:12action
`18:11, 18:13
`actually
`5:10, 6:17,
`14:7ad-infinitum
`13:20
`add
`14:17
`additional
`5:5, 8:21,
`13:21, 17:1
`address
`5:6, 13:7,
`13:9, 15:8
`addressed
`6:6, 13:6, 15:8
`adjourned
`17:16, 17:17
`admit
`10:5admitting
`6:8advisement
`17:7affirmed
`18:20
`affording
`7:14
`
`Transcript of Teleconference
`Conducted on May 27, 2020
`after
`4:19apply
`16:6afternoon
`6:15appropriate
`3:1, 3:9, 4:2
`again
`5:4, 5:10,
`5:15, 7:6, 7:14,
`4:19, 6:18,
`8:8, 9:16, 11:21
`7:6, 7:22, 9:9,
`april
`9:13, 9:17
`ahead
`13:6argument
`14:19
`all
`3:13, 6:19,
`6:20, 7:21, 8:4,
`7:20, 15:4,
`8:5, 11:3, 12:2
`18:16
`arguments
`alleged
`5:6, 6:11,
`5:20allegedly
`10:10, 11:7,
`12:3arrange
`6:4, 6:19
`allow
`3:18art
`16:10
`almost
`5:19ask
`10:19
`already
`3:17, 5:4,
`4:20, 13:22
`also
`7:10, 15:6,
`16:21
`3:5, 3:13, 4:6
`asked
`alternative
`12:21
`5:4, 9:14
`aspect
`annexed
`9:5assigning
`18:6another
`11:4attorney
`15:1answers
`18:10, 18:11
`18:16
`authorize
`any
`14:13
`11:5, 11:7,
`available
`16:4, 18:10,
`11:10, 11:11
`18:11
`avenue
`anyone
`2:8avoid
`3:14anything
`13:11
`17:8, 17:10
`aware
`appeal
`6:4, 14:5
`1:2appearances
`B
`back
`2:1appears
`15:16
`basis
`13:10
`apple
`10:19
`1:4, 3:3, 3:11,
`
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`
`19
`
`because
`5:20, 9:17,
`15:18
`been
`4:12before
`1:2, 16:17,
`18:7begin
`3:7, 4:17
`beginning
`6:16behalf
`2:3, 2:13, 3:8,
`3:11, 4:1, 4:4
`being
`13:19, 14:4,
`14:10, 17:1
`belabor
`8:14believe
`6:1, 8:7, 15:18
`block
`2:5, 3:9, 3:10,
`3:15, 3:20,
`4:14, 4:18,
`4:19, 7:18, 9:4,
`14:2, 14:3,
`14:21, 15:6,
`15:10, 15:11,
`16:13, 17:9,
`17:14
`board
`1:2, 7:12,
`8:16, 9:1, 11:1,
`11:2, 13:14,
`14:12
`both
`8:10, 8:12,
`16:22
`brand
`5:18, 7:21,
`8:5, 9:8
`brief
`5:14, 12:12,
`15:12
`briefing
`5:14, 8:21,
`
`
`
`13:20
`bring
`8:1, 14:14
`business
`16:14
`C
`call
`3:2, 11:15,
`17:15
`came
`12:20
`can
`6:17, 9:1,
`11:20, 14:8
`capable
`7:12, 8:17,
`11:3carmichael
`2:14, 2:16,
`4:3, 4:5, 4:6
`case
`1:5, 4:21
`cases
`7:11, 7:17,
`8:3, 8:21, 11:21
`ccr
`18:23, 18:24
`certainly
`8:17, 14:14
`certificate
`18:1certify
`18:5, 18:9,
`18:14
`cetera
`7:15charitable
`14:7chose
`10:22, 13:7,
`13:8cites
`6:17clarification
`16:22
`clear
`7:11, 8:10,
`
`Transcript of Teleconference
`Conducted on May 27, 2020
`county
`8:22, 12:14
`clearly
`18:3course
`5:12, 9:17,
`10:7colleague
`12:17
`court
`4:5colleagues
`3:16court's
`14:1, 16:18
`3:22covered
`combine
`5:20, 9:7, 9:19
`13:22
`comment
`crescent
`14:18
`2:17cross-examination
`compact
`13:19
`14:11
`concede
`cure
`14:22, 15:1
`9:11cut
`conceded
`8:4concedes
`12:10
`cuts
`6:2conducted
`9:6, 9:18
`D
`1:13, 12:19
`daily
`confer
`10:19
`16:18, 17:3
`daniel
`consideration
`2:5, 3:10, 4:19
`17:13
`day
`consistently
`10:20, 15:19,
`6:21contact
`18:20
`days
`10:18
`15:15, 15:17,
`containing
`16:6, 16:14,
`5:14corner
`16:21
`dc
`2:19correct
`2:9deadline
`4:13, 18:15
`16:12, 16:13,
`could
`16:19
`decide
`7:1, 7:10,
`9:11, 11:12,
`9:1decides
`13:6, 14:17,
`15:6counsel
`14:13
`declaration
`10:18, 12:21,
`6:6, 10:12,
`14:18, 14:21,
`11:8, 12:12,
`18:10, 18:12,
`12:16, 13:9
`18:17
`defect
`counsel's
`12:15
`10:2
`
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`
`20
`
`delay
`16:9depending
`8:19deposition
`12:19, 14:4,
`14:6, 14:20,
`18:6described
`10:16
`details
`11:17
`determine
`11:21
`determining
`11:3diagrams
`12:11
`did
`7:21, 10:12,
`11:8, 15:2
`didn't
`8:9, 10:5,
`15:17
`different
`8:20direction
`18:8directly
`12:15
`discussion
`17:4doing
`3:13don't
`5:3, 8:13,
`11:16, 12:5,
`14:5, 16:1, 16:4
`done
`7:1door
`13:1drive
`2:17due
`13:5during
`10:19, 14:9,
`
`
`
`E
`
`14:15
`each
`18:6earlier
`9:13effect
`6:13, 8:4
`effectively
`8:11elicited
`12:22, 14:9,
`14:15
`else
`3:14elucidating
`10:7email
`10:22, 15:17
`employee
`18:10, 18:11
`end
`15:17
`entire
`13:13
`entitled
`10:10
`esquire
`2:5, 2:6, 2:14,
`2:15et
`7:15evaluating
`8:17even
`8:3, 16:5
`everyone
`4:11evidence
`11:4, 13:2,
`17:1exactly
`12:5examination
`18:18
`example
`5:10, 5:12
`
`Transcript of Teleconference
`Conducted on May 27, 2020
`exceptional
`15:1five
`10:17
`exceptions
`16:13, 16:14,
`16:21
`18:17
`flaw
`excerpt
`5:21, 6:4, 6:6,
`6:18excised
`15:3floor
`13:13
`expert
`2:18focused
`6:5, 11:8,
`11:15
`12:16, 12:21,
`footnote
`13:8, 13:9
`experts
`6:1, 6:3, 8:15
`foregoing
`10:11
`expires
`18:6, 18:18
`foremost
`18:25
`explained
`9:16forgive
`12:13
`extent
`4:7forth
`8:15, 12:1,
`14:12, 16:10
`9:19, 15:16
`forum
`F
`12:6fox
`fact
`5:22, 6:2, 6:9,
`2:7frame
`12:10, 14:15
`fatal
`16:9from
`12:14
`feel
`4:3, 6:10,
`5:3file
`12:11, 13:10,
`13:13, 14:1,
`10:22
`14:8, 16:7,
`filed
`17:8, 17:10
`3:18finally
`full
`18:15
`10:7, 12:14
`fundamental
`financially
`9:5further
`18:12
`find
`17:8, 17:10,
`13:12
`18:9, 18:14
`fine
`G
`16:14
`get
`firm
`11:17, 12:7,
`3:10first
`13:22, 16:17
`given
`6:1, 6:12,
`14:15
`7:20, 9:16,
`gives
`10:1, 14:22,
`5:10
`
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`
`21
`
`giving
`7:13, 8:18
`go
`14:19
`goal
`13:19
`goes
`9:4going
`12:10, 17:6
`goldstein
`2:7good
`3:1, 3:9, 4:2
`grant
`13:15
`ground
`9:7grounds
`9:20guess
`15:22
`guide
`5:8, 5:11,
`7:11, 10:9,
`10:17, 11:20,
`12:18, 15:21,
`16:2
`H
`had
`12:14
`hamann
`3:1, 3:4, 3:14,
`3:17, 3:21, 4:7,
`4:10, 4:15, 7:9,
`8:13, 9:21,
`11:14, 13:21,
`14:19, 15:5,
`16:10, 16:16,
`17:2, 17:5,
`17:10, 17:15
`hand
`18:19
`happened
`13:5, 14:7
`hard
`16:7
`
`
`
`has
`8:4, 10:15,
`11:9, 11:11,
`16:4hasn't
`15:8have
`3:18, 4:11,
`4:16, 5:17, 6:7,
`7:1, 7:4, 7:21,
`8:3, 13:6, 13:8,
`13:12, 13:21,
`16:2, 16:8,
`18:19
`haven't
`15:7he's
`11:12
`headed
`12:9heading
`12:5hear
`6:10heard
`1:20, 15:7,
`18:23
`heart
`9:6, 9:18
`held
`10:20
`helpful
`8:14here
`4:16, 5:11,
`5:17, 6:14, 8:3,
`8:8, 9:12, 9:17,
`16:4hereby
`18:5herein
`18:7hereunto
`18:19
`his
`3:8, 14:8
`hold
`17:3
`
`Transcript of Teleconference
`Conducted on May 27, 2020
`holding
`14:14
`ip
`17:6honor
`2:16, 4:3, 4:6
`ipr
`3:9, 3:15, 4:2,
`4:14, 4:18,
`1:6, 1:7, 3:2,
`4:20, 7:5, 7:18,
`13:19
`issue
`9:22, 11:2,
`11:9, 11:11,
`9:1, 9:18,
`11:12, 14:3,
`12:20, 12:22,
`14:17, 15:11,
`13:2, 13:4,
`17:9, 17:12,
`13:6, 13:11,
`17:14
`13:13, 14:5,
`honors
`15:7issues
`5:3, 5:8
`how
`7:13, 15:18
`it's
`6:17
`I
`4:21, 4:22,
`6:1, 8:14, 8:16,
`i'll
`8:18, 9:2, 9:9,
`3:13, 15:12
`14:6its
`identified
`4:12, 8:15
`6:5, 10:7
`identify
`itself
`3:22, 9:1
`9:2
`identifying
`J
`3:7, 7:12
`james
`importantly
`2:14, 4:5
`16:3improper
`jivani
`3:5job
`14:16
`inc
`1:21joined
`1:4, 3:3, 4:19
`included
`4:5judge
`5:13including
`3:1, 3:4, 3:14,
`18:16
`inconsistent
`3:17, 3:21, 4:7,
`4:10, 4:15, 7:9,
`13:18
`indicate
`8:13, 9:21,
`11:14, 13:21,
`11:12
`information
`14:19, 15:5,
`16:10, 16:16,
`16:17
`instead
`17:2, 17:5,
`17:10, 17:15
`7:3interested
`judges
`3:5juncture
`18:12
`into
`10:14
`11:17, 12:7,
`
`22
`
`just
`5:1, 6:11, 7:7,
`10:12, 10:13,
`11:8, 14:4,
`14:17, 16:6,
`16:9, 16:17
`justification
`10:15
`K
`keep
`15:12
`kessler
`2:7, 3:11, 3:13
`king
`18:3know
`7:10, 7:12,
`7:20, 8:22,
`9:13, 9:14,
`9:15, 11:14,
`11:18, 11:20,
`12:1, 12:2,
`12:5, 12:7,
`14:12, 14:13,
`15:13, 16:7
`L
`last
`8:1, 9:9, 15:19
`late
`10:15
`law
`3:10least
`15:8leaves
`9:10led
`13:1less
`16:15
`let
`4:16, 7:9,
`10:13, 11:14,
`13:22, 15:5
`license
`18:24
`
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`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`
`
`light
`7:14like
`3:7, 8:16,
`13:16, 13:20
`likely
`6:10, 14:14
`limitation
`12:13, 12:22
`line
`3:5, 3:8, 3:16,
`3:22lines
`14:21
`locate
`11:13
`look
`5:22, 6:16,
`12:19
`loophole
`13:12
`M
`made
`10:10, 12:14,
`14:18, 18:17
`majority
`14:8make
`8:9, 16:2
`march
`12:20, 13:5
`margolies
`3:6matter
`15:1, 16:22
`may
`1:14, 5:15,
`6:12, 8:22,
`12:3, 18:20
`maybe
`7:14, 10:13
`mean
`8:10, 9:4
`meet-and-confer
`10:20, 15:16
`meeting
`15:18
`
`Transcript of Teleconference
`Conducted on May 27, 2020
`mention
`11:4, 11:7,
`11:18, 11:19,
`15:2mentioned
`12:2, 12:8
`northwest
`4:20, 9:13
`merits
`2:8nos
`13:11
`michael
`1:5not
`2:6, 3:12
`minor
`5:13, 5:20,
`6:5, 6:8, 7:16,
`10:14
`minute
`7:21, 8:18, 9:2,
`10:2, 10:22,
`8:1more
`11:18, 11:19,
`12:2, 12:4,
`16:3most
`12:6, 12:7,
`13:4, 13:7,
`7:11, 7:16,
`13:8, 18:9,
`8:2, 8:21, 11:21
`motion
`18:12
`notary
`1:12, 4:21,
`18:4, 18:25
`4:22, 7:6, 7:7,
`nothing
`8:7, 9:10, 9:16,
`13:21, 17:8
`10:2, 10:16,
`now
`11:15, 14:13
`motions
`4:20
`18:16
`mph
`objected
`1:7, 3:3, 4:4,
`14:10
`objecting
`4:6, 5:18, 6:1,
`10:6much
`14:22
`objections
`11:17
`18:16
`obviously
`named
`11:15, 11:20
`off
`18:7narrow
`17:4office
`4:22, 7:6, 10:2
`necessarily
`1:1official
`12:6needed
`18:20
`okay
`12:4neither
`3:17, 3:20,
`4:15, 8:13,
`6:5new
`15:4, 15:5,
`17:15
`2:8, 5:6, 5:13,
`one
`5:18, 6:2, 6:9,
`3:15, 8:9,
`7:13, 7:21, 8:5,
`14:4, 14:18,
`8:18, 9:8, 10:6,
`
`N
`
`O
`
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`
`23
`
`16:1, 16:3
`one-week
`15:20, 16:6
`only
`9:10, 15:7
`opened
`13:1opportunity
`7:22ordinary
`5:19original
`16:20
`other
`3:15, 8:9
`our
`6:11, 6:15,
`7:10, 9:5, 9:19,
`11:22, 16:7
`out
`10:3, 10:13,
`11:2, 15:14
`outcome
`18:13
`outside
`8:6, 9:17,
`14:10
`over
`10:3, 15:17
`own
`11:22, 16:5
`owner
`1:8, 2:13,
`3:21, 5:6, 6:7,
`6:10, 6:22, 7:2,
`8:4, 9:21, 10:5,
`10:10, 10:12,
`11:8, 12:10,
`12:15, 13:16,
`15:14, 15:19,
`16:4, 16:8,
`16:16, 16:21,
`17:11
`owner's
`10:4, 11:9,
`12:21, 13:10,
`16:19
`oy
`1:7, 3:3
`
`
`
`P
`page
`5:11, 6:1, 6:3,
`6:12, 6:16,
`11:11, 11:13,
`14:20
`pages
`1:22, 10:3,
`16:14
`panel
`17:6, 17:13
`paper
`9:10, 9:15,
`11:11, 13:7,
`13:8, 13:17
`papers
`16:22, 17:1
`particular
`12:13, 12:22
`parties
`3:17, 4:11,
`15:7, 17:2,
`17:6, 18:10
`pasted
`12:11
`patent
`1:1, 1:2, 1:8,
`2:13, 3:21, 5:6,
`6:7, 6:10, 6:22,
`7:2, 8:3, 9:21,
`10:4, 10:5,
`10:9, 10:12,
`11:8, 11:9,
`12:10, 12:15,
`12:21, 13:10,
`13:16, 15:14,
`15:18, 16:4,
`16:8, 16:16,
`16:18, 16:21,
`17:10
`patrick
`1:20, 18:23
`percent
`10:4perfectly
`11:3period
`10:19, 15:20,
`
`Transcript of Teleconference
`Conducted on May 27, 2020
`6:17portrayal
`14:6, 14:7
`potentially
`7:12, 8:15
`practice
`5:8, 5:11,
`7:11, 10:9,
`10:17, 11:20,
`12:18, 15:21,
`16:2precisely
`5:16prejudice
`9:12, 16:4,
`16:8premature
`12:3pretty
`7:11, 15:14
`prior
`5:13procedural
`13:12
`proceeding
`11:10
`proceedings
`8:11, 8:12,
`13:19, 17:17
`promise
`15:12
`proper
`8:19, 9:2, 11:4
`properly
`14:10
`provided
`10:15
`pst
`1:15, 17:17
`public
`18:4
`Q
`questions
`18:16
`R
`raised
`5:6, 6:20, 11:7
`
`16:6permit
`11:16
`permitted
`12:17
`person
`5:19perspective
`16:7petition
`6:18, 6:21,
`9:5, 10:8
`petitioner
`1:5, 2:3, 3:7,
`3:14, 4:14,
`4:17, 6:4, 6:7,
`9:12, 10:6,
`10:14, 10:21,
`12:14, 12:17,
`13:3, 13:4,
`13:6, 13:7,
`13:11, 13:16,
`14:1, 15:5,
`15:8, 17:8
`petitioner's
`1:12, 4:16,
`10:1, 10:11,
`10:18, 12:11,
`12:20, 13:5,
`16:11
`phone
`3:12please
`3:22, 9:21,
`14:19, 17:2
`pllc
`2:7, 2:16
`point
`3:15, 6:12,
`8:9, 8:14,
`10:14, 12:3,
`12:10, 13:3,
`14:4, 15:1
`pointed
`11:2points
`10:2, 15:22
`portion
`5:14, 6:12,
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`24
`
`raises
`6:18raising
`5:18rather
`6:8reached
`15:14
`reason
`7:5, 8:2, 8:20,
`10:22
`reasonable
`3:19reasons
`7:19receiving
`15:15
`recognizing
`8:17record
`13:13, 17:4
`redirect
`13:2, 14:9,
`14:16
`reduced
`18:8references
`5:20, 9:7, 9:19
`relative
`18:9, 18:11
`relief
`10:21, 13:15
`relies
`5:13remedy
`10:17
`repeated
`6:21replies
`8:11reply
`5:1, 5:5, 5:7,
`5:9, 5:12, 5:19,
`5:22, 6:5, 6:9,
`6:21, 7:3, 7:8,
`10:4, 10:8,
`10:11, 10:12,
`11:6, 11:7,
`
`
`
`11:9, 11:13,
`12:12, 13:5,
`13:8, 13:18,
`14:9, 15:15,
`16:11, 16:21
`reported
`1:20reporter
`3:16representing
`4:6request
`4:16, 10:15,
`10:20, 10:22,
`13:16, 15:9,
`16:2, 16:5, 17:7
`requested
`16:22
`requesting
`4:21required
`10:21
`respect
`15:13, 16:9
`respond
`6:22, 7:1, 7:4,
`7:22, 9:9,
`10:10, 10:11
`responding
`6:11, 6:14,
`6:19, 10:6,
`12:15
`response
`7:2, 7:16,
`9:15, 9:21,
`13:22, 14:18,
`15:9, 16:21
`responses
`10:1right
`9:5rpr
`18:23
`rule
`16:1rules
`8:7
`S
`s-c-h-r-e-i-n-e-r
`4:9
`
`Transcript of Teleconference
`Conducted on May 27, 2020
`short
`5:5, 9:15
`should
`5:9, 11:6,
`11:16
`signature-faq2d
`18:21
`significant
`9:11single
`5:1, 15:19
`situation
`5:16, 8:3
`skill
`5:19smoke
`6:13some
`5:20, 9:15,
`13:15, 16:17
`something
`6:8, 8:16,
`11:16, 11:19,
`15:2soon
`3:18sorry
`4:8, 4:10
`sort
`13:15
`speak
`15:6specht
`2:6, 3:12
`start
`10:13
`state
`6:4, 18:2,
`18:4, 18:24
`stated
`14:21
`states
`1:1stating
`10:7stenographically
`18:7stephen
`2:15
`
`said
`18:11, 18:13
`same
`8:11say
`6:3, 6:14, 8:10
`says
`5:8, 5:12, 16:2
`schedule
`15:16
`scheduling
`16:12
`schreiner
`2:15, 4:2, 4:3,
`4:7, 4:8, 4:13,
`9:22, 12:9,
`14:17, 14:20,
`16:20, 17:12
`scope
`5:9, 8:6, 8:19,
`9:3, 9:18
`screen
`6:13seal
`18:20
`second
`10:5secondly
`11:2section
`5:1, 5:2, 7:7,
`8:10security
`5:21, 6:6,
`12:14, 15:2
`see
`6:17, 14:8,
`16:4seems
`8:16, 8:22,
`16:7sense
`11:17
`set
`6:13, 9:19,
`18:19
`several
`15:17
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`25
`
`sterne
`2:7, 3:10, 3:13
`steven
`4:3streamlined
`13:19
`strike
`1:12, 4:21,
`4:22, 5:1, 7:6,
`7:7, 8:7, 9:10,
`9:16, 10:3,
`10:16, 14:13
`striking
`5:14submit
`13:18
`submitted
`12:12, 12:17
`such
`18:11
`suggest
`11:14, 12:6
`suggested
`15:21
`suggests
`11:20
`supplemental
`6:6, 12:11,
`12:16, 13:15
`sur
`5:1, 5:7, 5:9,
`5:18, 5:22, 7:3,
`7:7, 8:11, 10:4,
`11:6, 11:9,
`11:13, 14:9,
`15:15, 16:20
`sur-sur
`5:5, 16:11
`sur-sur-sur
`13:17
`sure
`15:11
`take
`17:6taken
`18:7, 18:17
`
`T
`
`
`
`26
`
`talking
`13:14, 13:17
`technical
`7:21technologies
`1:7, 3:3, 4:4,
`4:6teleconference
`18:14
`terms
`16:14
`testimony
`13:1, 14:8,
`14:15, 18:15
`th
`2:18, 18:20
`than
`8:21thank
`4:10, 4:18,
`17:13, 17:14,
`17:16
`that
`3:17, 4:10,
`5:6, 5:15, 5:16,
`5:19, 6:2, 6:3,
`6:4, 6:6, 6:8,
`6:10, 6:14,
`6:17, 6:19,
`6:20, 7:5, 7:11,
`7:19, 7:21, 8:6,
`8:16, 8:20,
`8:22, 9:10,
`10:12, 10:20,
`11:8, 11:11,
`11:19, 12:1,
`12:2, 12:10,
`12:13, 12:16,
`13:10, 14:9,
`14:12, 14:14,
`14:15, 15:2,
`
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