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`ALAN C. BOVIK, PH.D. - 12/15/2017ALAN C. BOVIK, PH.D. - 12/15/2017
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`·1· · · · · ·UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
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`·2· · · · · ·BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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`·3
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`·4· · · · · · · SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS CO., LTD. AND
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`·5· · · · · · · ·SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS AMERICA, INC.
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`·6· · · · · · · · · · · · · Petitioner
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`·7· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · v.
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`·8· · · · · · · IMAGE PROCESSING TECHNOLOGIES, LLC
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`·9· · · · · · · · · · · · ·Patent Owner.
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`10
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`11· · · · · · · · · · · Case IPR2017-00353
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`12· · · · · · · · · U.S. Patent No. 8,983,134
`· · · · · · · ·_____________________________________
`13
`· · · · · · · · · · · · ORAL DEPOSITION OF
`14
`· · · · · · · · · · · ·ALAN C. BOVIK, Ph.D.
`15
`· · · · · · · · · · · · ·DECEMBER 15, 2017
`16· · · · · · ·_____________________________________
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`17· · · · ORAL DEPOSITION OF ALAN C. BOVIK, Ph.D., produced
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`18· ·as a witness at the instance of the Petitioner, and duly
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`19· ·sworn, was taken in the above-styled and numbered cause
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`20· ·on December 15, 2017, from 9:39 a.m. to 3:41 p.m.,
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`21· ·before Candice Andino, Certified Shorthand Reporter in
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`22· ·and for the State of Texas, reported by machine
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`23· ·shorthand, at Andrews Kurth Kenyon, LLP, 111 Congress
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`24· ·Avenue, Suite 1700, Austin, Texas, pursuant to the
`Exhibit 2012
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`IPR2017-01218
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`25· ·Federal Rules of Civil Procedure.
`Petitioner - Samsung Electronics. Co., Ltd., et al.
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`Patent Owner - Image Processing Technologies. LLC
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`·1· · · · · · · ·A P P E A R A N C E S
`·2· ·FOR THE PETITIONER:
`·3· · · · O'MELVENY & MYERS LLP
`· · · · · BY:· NICHOLAS J. WHILT
`·4· · · · 400 South Hope Street, 18th Floor
`· · · · · Los Angeles, California 90071
`·5· · · · (213) 430-6000
`· · · · · nwhilt@omm.com
`·6
`· · ·FOR THE PATENT OWNER:
`·7
`· · · · · ANDREWS KURTH KENYON LLP
`·8· · · · BY:· CHRIS J. COULSON
`· · · · · One Broadway
`·9· · · · New York, New York 10004
`· · · · · (212) 425-7200
`10· · · · chriscoulson@andrewskurthkenyon.com
`11· ·ALSO PRESENT:
`12· · · · JONG-IN SON
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`ALAN C. BOVIK, PH.D. - 12/15/2017ALAN C. BOVIK, PH.D. - 12/15/2017
`Page 2
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`Pages 2..5
`Page 4
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`·1· · · · · · ·FRIDAY, DECEMBER 15, 2017, 9:39 A.M.
`·2· · · · · · · · · · · · ·AUSTIN, TEXAS
`·3· · · · · · · · · · ALAN C. BOVIK, Ph.D.,
`·4· ·having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified
`·5· ·as follows:
`·6· · · · · · · · · · · · · EXAMINATION
`·7· ·BY MR. WHILT:
`·8· · · · Q.· Welcome, Dr. Bovik.
`·9· · · · A.· Thank you.
`10· · · · Q.· Will you please state your full name for the
`11· ·record.
`12· · · · A.· Alan Conrad Bovik, B-o-v-i-k.
`13· · · · Q.· And where are you currently employed?
`14· · · · A.· At the University of Texas at Austin.
`15· · · · Q.· And where do you currently reside?
`16· · · · A.· In Austin, Texas.· Do you need the street
`17· ·address?
`18· · · · Q.· No, that's -- that's all right.
`19· · · · A.· Okay.
`20· · · · Q.· Now, how many times have you been -- had your
`21· ·deposition taken before today?
`22· · · · A.· Before today?· I think it's very close to
`23· ·almost 35 times.
`24· · · · Q.· Okay.· And have you testified in trials before?
`25· · · · A.· I have.· At trial, around five or six times,
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`Page 5
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`·1· ·including this week.
`·2· · · · Q.· Okay.· So you're familiar with this process.
`·3· ·So I'm just going to go through a few ground rules,
`·4· ·although you're probably already familiar with all of
`·5· ·these.
`·6· · · · · · · · ·So if you don't understand any of my
`·7· ·questions, please let me know, and I'll try to clarify
`·8· ·as best I can.
`·9· · · · · · · · ·Can we agree to that?
`10· · · · A.· Sure.
`11· · · · Q.· Okay.· Also, if you do not hear my question or
`12· ·some part of my question, please let me know after I
`13· ·finish and I'll ask the court reporter to read it back
`14· ·to you.
`15· · · · · · · · ·Can we agree to that?
`16· · · · A.· Yes.
`17· · · · Q.· I'll also ask you just to answer my questions
`18· ·with a verbal response and not answer with nods of the
`19· ·head.
`20· · · · · · · · ·Is that understood?
`21· · · · A.· I'll do my best.
`22· · · · Q.· Okay.· Can you tell me:· How did you prepare
`23· ·for today's deposition?
`24· · · · A.· Well, you know, preparation for the deposition
`25· ·is a -- it's a long process.· You know, I -- I, you
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`Page 3
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·I N D E X
`·2· ·WITNESS:· ALAN C. BOVIK, Ph.D.
`·3· ·EXAMINATION· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · PAGE
`·4· · · · BY MR. WHILT.................................· · 4
`·5· · · · BY MR. COULSON...............................· 154
`·6
`·7· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·EXHIBITS
`·8· ·NO.· · · · · · DESCRIPTION· · · · · · · · · · · · ·PAGE
`·9· ·Exhibit 1011· ·Figure 4 of Gilbert................· ·98
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`12· · · · · · · · · PREVIOUSLY MARKED EXHIBITS
`13· · · · · · · · · · · · (Not attached)
`14· ·NO.· · · · · · DESCRIPTION· · · · · · · · · · · · ·PAGE
`15· ·Exhibit 1001· ·U.S. Patent No. 8,983,134..........· ·12
`16· ·Exhibit 1005· ·Document entitled "A Real-Time
`· · · · · · · · · · Video Tracking System".............· ·73
`17
`· · ·Exhibit 1006· ·U.S. Patent No. 5,521,843..........· 115
`18
`· · ·Exhibit 1007· ·U.S. Patent No. 5,150,432..........· 134
`19
`· · ·Exhibit 2007· ·Declaration of Dr. Alan Bovik in
`20· · · · · · · · · Support of Patent Owner Response
`· · · · · · · · · · Pursuant to 37 CFR 42.120..........· ·11
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`ALAN C. BOVIK, PH.D. - 12/15/2017ALAN C. BOVIK, PH.D. - 12/15/2017
`Page 6
`·1· ·know, started becoming familiar with these materials
`·2· ·when I was first engaged in a related district case.
`·3· ·Okay?· So I consider, you know, becoming familiar with
`·4· ·the '134 patent and the same references as were brought
`·5· ·in that case are -- I guess they're still being brought
`·6· ·in that case -- as part of my preparation here.
`·7· · · · · · · · ·So, basically, reading and understanding
`·8· ·the patents at issue, the prior art patents, the
`·9· ·prosecution history, having significant contemplation,
`10· ·significant discussions with counsel, preparation of an
`11· ·expert report, and going back and forth in that and
`12· ·making sure my opinions are expressed correctly.· And,
`13· ·you know, that's -- that's the basics.· I'm not trying
`14· ·to be complete.· Just -- you know, I'm not trying to
`15· ·memorize everything I did.
`16· · · · Q.· Okay.· And did you meet with counsel to prepare
`17· ·for today's deposition?
`18· · · · A.· I did.
`19· · · · Q.· And how much time did you spend meeting with
`20· ·your counsel?
`21· · · · A.· Well, you know, it depends on whether you mean
`22· ·in person or, you know, by other means, such as, you
`23· ·know, phone or electronically.· So, you know, how much
`24· ·time did I spend -- I -- I didn't make a -- try to make
`25· ·an accurate assessment of that, but certainly -- I'll
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`Pages 6..9
`Page 8
`·1· ·spent on this -- this matter relating to this IPR?
`·2· · · · A.· Okay.· So by that, you mean, you know, aside
`·3· ·from all the hours I spent in the district case.· I -- I
`·4· ·would just -- you know, again, I haven't -- I didn't try
`·5· ·to look up that number before we came in, but I would
`·6· ·say it's around 25 hours, maybe, 30 hours.
`·7· · · · Q.· Okay.· And --
`·8· · · · A.· Keep in mind that I have an awful lot of
`·9· ·knowledge accrued from my studies of these things before
`10· ·that.
`11· · · · Q.· And that's because you previously worked on
`12· ·another district court matter for Image Processing
`13· ·Technologies; is that correct?
`14· · · · A.· Yeah.· I -- I'm very familiar with the material
`15· ·of the case.
`16· · · · Q.· So how much have you billed Image Processing
`17· ·Technologies in connection with all the work you've done
`18· ·for them?
`19· · · · · · · · ·MR. COULSON:· Objection.· Form.
`20· · · · A.· That is a good question.· I -- I -- I don't --
`21· ·well, first of all, I don't think I should be answering
`22· ·any questions about the district case here.· I mean,
`23· ·counsel can advise me otherwise, but I -- I -- I think
`24· ·that that is -- I mean, I think I had to tell you
`25· ·something just to let you know that I've been exposed to
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`Page 7
`·1· ·just answer this way:· Over the last -- let's see.
`·2· ·Today's Friday -- after the last -- over the last two
`·3· ·days, just in person, I've met with counsel for about
`·4· ·eight or nine hours.· And I can't -- I probably couldn't
`·5· ·come up with an estimate for, you know, other
`·6· ·communication/meeting.
`·7· · · · Q.· Okay.· So eight or nine years over the last two
`·8· ·days?
`·9· · · · A.· Yeah.· And, again, I didn't calculate that. I
`10· ·just -- it's a guess.
`11· · · · Q.· Okay.· And you understand you're here
`12· ·testifying as part of a inter partes review
`13· ·proceeding; correct?
`14· · · · A.· I do.
`15· · · · Q.· Okay.· And you are serving as an expert for the
`16· ·patent owner, Image Processing Technologies; right?
`17· · · · A.· That is my understanding, yes.
`18· · · · Q.· Okay.· And in that -- in that inter partes
`19· ·review proceeding, you submitted an expert
`20· ·declaration; correct?
`21· · · · A.· Yes.
`22· · · · Q.· Okay.· And what is your hourly rate that you're
`23· ·charging for your work in connection with this matter?
`24· · · · A.· For my time, I always charge 500 an hour.
`25· · · · Q.· Okay.· And how much -- how much time have you
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`Page 9
`·1· ·the material, and I think it's important for you to
`·2· ·know.· But, you know, how many hours I put in that case
`·3· ·I think is irrelevant to this case.· So...
`·4· · · · Q.· (BY MR. WHILT)· I -- I'm just asking you how
`·5· ·much you -- you've billed Image Processing Technologies
`·6· ·for your -- for time that you've spent on the IPRs or
`·7· ·the district court case.
`·8· · · · A.· And that -- and my same answer.· I mean, I -- I
`·9· ·mean...
`10· · · · · · · · ·MR. COULSON:· If you have -- if there's a
`11· ·question about privilege or something, we can take a
`12· ·short break, and I can address your question.
`13· · · · A.· I think there is a question of privilege there
`14· ·with regard to the district case.
`15· · · · Q.· (BY MR. WHILT)· I'm just asking you how much
`16· ·you've billed.· This is a pretty standard question.
`17· · · · A.· But in a different case; right?
`18· · · · Q.· That's the question.
`19· · · · A.· So I'm just -- I'm not a lawyer.· Okay? I
`20· ·don't know if that is a privileged information with
`21· ·regards to this case or not.· Okay?
`22· · · · Q.· Okay.· Well --
`23· · · · A.· Okay.· Well, let me give -- let me give --
`24· · · · Q.· -- I'm -- I'm going to ask you the question
`25· ·again.
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`ALAN C. BOVIK, PH.D. - 12/15/2017ALAN C. BOVIK, PH.D. - 12/15/2017
`Page 10
`·1· · · · A.· Let me give an answer.· I don't really know. I
`·2· ·haven't thought about, you know, those quantities in
`·3· ·quite some time.· But I would guess that I've probably
`·4· ·billed IPT in the two cases -- thus far billed --
`·5· ·actually, I don't think I've billed them in this case.
`·6· ·Okay?· You know, because -- probably less than 100,000.
`·7· ·I'm just guessing.· I -- it might be in that ballpark.
`·8· · · · Q.· Okay.· And how much do you expect to bill them
`·9· ·that hasn't -- where you haven't sent out a bill yet?
`10· · · · A.· For --
`11· · · · Q.· You said you haven't sent out a bill yet for
`12· ·certain work.· I just want to understand how much you --
`13· ·you will have billed, in total --
`14· · · · A.· Well --
`15· · · · Q.· -- as of today.
`16· · · · · · · · ·MR. COULSON:· Objection.· Form.
`17· · · · A.· You know, in this case, I've already expressed
`18· ·I think it's, like, 25, 30 hours.· So, you know, do the
`19· ·math, multiply it by 500, 12, $15,000.
`20· · · · Q.· (BY MR. WHILT)· So for the district --
`21· · · · A.· And nothing -- include today, of course.· This
`22· ·is -- I'm here to spend my time.· Right?
`23· · · · Q.· So for the district court matter, you've billed
`24· ·IPT around $100,000; is that right?
`25· · · · A.· Yeah.· And, you know, give or -- please
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`·1· · · · · · · · ·MR. COULSON:· I'm just going to object or
`·2· ·caution the witness not to discuss communications back
`·3· ·and forth with counsel, which would include the sending
`·4· ·of drafts.· But...
`·5· · · · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Okay.· Sure.
`·6· · · · · · · · ·MR. COULSON:· You can...
`·7· · · · A.· In any case, information was -- I -- I
`·8· ·expressed my opinions.· I -- I certainly had material
`·9· ·that was, you know, based on my instructions drafted for
`10· ·me.· I don't write legalese.· I'm not a lawyer.· So, you
`11· ·know, the process was a back-and-forth one, and in the
`12· ·end, there is a document that is definitely my opinion
`13· ·and which I signed off on.
`14· · · · Q.· (BY MR. WHILT)· And -- but counsel assisted you
`15· ·in preparing this declaration; right?
`16· · · · · · · · ·MR. COULSON:· Objection.· Form.
`17· · · · A.· I have no objection to that.· I mean, I had
`18· ·conversations with counsel, and counsel helped me draft
`19· ·it, you know.· Again, you know, I don't write legal
`20· ·style ordinarily.
`21· · · · · · ·(Previously marked Exhibit 1001 referred to.)
`22· · · · Q.· (BY MR. WHILT)· Okay.· I'm going to also hand
`23· ·you a copy of U.S. Patent No. 8,983,134 that's been
`24· ·marked as -- previously marked as Samsung Exhibit 1001.
`25· · · · · · · · ·Okay.· So do you recognize Exhibit 1001?
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`Page 11
`·1· ·understand, I'm not trying to be accurate there.· It
`·2· ·could be plus or minus 20.· I -- I mean, I don't
`·3· ·remember these kind of things.
`·4· · · · Q.· Okay.
`·5· · · · · · ·(Previously marked Exhibit 2007 referred to.)
`·6· · · · Q.· (BY MR. WHILT)· Okay.· I'm going to hand you
`·7· ·what's already been marked as Exhibit 2007, the
`·8· ·Declaration of Dr. Alan Bovik In Support of Patent
`·9· ·Owner's Response Pursuant to 37 CFR 42.120.· And this
`10· ·relates to the '134 patent.
`11· · · · · · · · ·MR. COULSON:· Thank you.
`12· · · · Q.· (BY MR. WHILT)· And can you just confirm that
`13· ·Exhibit 2007 that you've been handed is the declaration
`14· ·that you submitted in the IPR proceeding 2017-353 that
`15· ·relates to U.S. Patent No. 8,983,134?
`16· · · · A.· It looks like it's probably complete, and so
`17· ·I'll agree with that.
`18· · · · Q.· Did anyone assist you in preparing your
`19· ·declaration?
`20· · · · A.· Well, you know, I -- the beginning of my
`21· ·declaration preparation was when I first started
`22· ·thinking about these patents again.· Okay.· So it --
`23· ·it's -- it's a -- it's a process and a conversation
`24· ·between myself and counsel.· I, you know, gave them an
`25· ·early draft, and, you know, I --
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`·1· · · · A.· Yeah.· This is what I refer to as the '134
`·2· ·patent.
`·3· · · · Q.· Okay.· Okay.· So in the '134 patent, will you
`·4· ·please turn to Figure 21.
`·5· · · · A.· Sure.
`·6· · · · Q.· Are you familiar with Figure 21?
`·7· · · · A.· Yes.
`·8· · · · Q.· All right.· So in -- for reference, if you turn
`·9· ·also to column 24, you'll see that, starting at line 1,
`10· ·there's a discussion of Figure 21.
`11· · · · A.· Correct.
`12· · · · Q.· Now, do you see, in column 24, starting at
`13· ·line 2, the '134 patent states --
`14· · · · A.· Starting at line 2?
`15· · · · Q.· Yeah.
`16· · · · · · · · ·Do you see column 24, starting at line 2,
`17· ·it states (as read):· In order to process the pixels
`18· ·surrounding the starting position, image processing
`19· ·system 204 will process the pixels in successively
`20· ·larger areas surrounding the pixel, adjusting the center
`21· ·of the area based upon the shape of the object, until
`22· ·substantially the entire target area is being tracked.
`23· · · · · · · · ·Do you see that?
`24· · · · A.· Yes, that's correct.· Uh-huh.
`25· · · · Q.· Okay.· Now, would you agree that when the
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`ALAN C. BOVIK, PH.D. - 12/15/2017ALAN C. BOVIK, PH.D. - 12/15/2017
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`·1· ·specification's referring to processing successively
`·2· ·larger areas, it's describing the process of repeatedly
`·3· ·increasing the size of the area that's being processed?
`·4· · · · A.· Yes, within a single frame this is occurring.
`·5· · · · Q.· Okay.· And in Figure 21, that area that's made
`·6· ·successively larger is shown as a -- as a box inside the
`·7· ·image; correct?
`·8· · · · A.· Let me make a little mark here because it's
`·9· ·hard to find figures in this patent.· They're not in
`10· ·very good order.
`11· · · · · · · · ·Yes.
`12· · · · Q.· Okay.· And it's the small square in the middle
`13· ·of Figure 21; right?
`14· · · · A.· Yeah, sure.
`15· · · · Q.· Okay.· And so if -- do you see Figure 22 that's
`16· ·right below Figure 21?
`17· · · · A.· Uh-huh.
`18· · · · Q.· Okay.· So Figure 22 shows this embodiment we've
`19· ·been discussing where the area being processed has been
`20· ·enlarged; correct?
`21· · · · A.· So, you know, just for clarity, you know,
`22· ·Figure 22 is described further down in this embodiment,
`23· ·in this column.· And it describes, you know, this as
`24· ·a -- you know, the area under consideration begins
`25· ·across the borders of target 218.· So, I mean, this is
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`Page 16
`·1· · · · Q.· So to step back, Figure 21 shows -- shows a
`·2· ·small box that's under consideration, and then that is
`·3· ·enlarged, and the enlarged box is illustrated in
`·4· ·Figure 22; correct?
`·5· · · · A.· Yes.· And there is -- in a further figure, a
`·6· ·further enlarged box, in Figure 23.
`·7· · · · Q.· Right.· And Figure 22 is supposed to show one
`·8· ·of the iterations of successively enlarging the box as
`·9· ·you eventually get toward the size of the box that's
`10· ·shown in 20- -- Figure 23; correct?
`11· · · · A.· In this embodiment.· This is one way of, you
`12· ·know, practicing claim 1, yeah.
`13· · · · Q.· Okay.· And in Figure 22, it shows that
`14· ·histograms are created of the particular box size that's
`15· ·shown in that figure; correct?
`16· · · · A.· I -- I don't think that question is -- is well
`17· ·formed.
`18· · · · Q.· Let me ask you a different question.
`19· · · · · · · · ·Do you see, in Figure 22 --
`20· · · · A.· Uh-huh.
`21· · · · Q.· -- that there are elements 222 and 224?
`22· · · · A.· Yes.
`23· · · · Q.· Okay.· You'd agree those are
`24· ·histograms; correct?
`25· · · · A.· Well, part of those.· I mean, yeah.· Sure,
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`·1· ·a -- a later stage in this iterative process of --
`·2· ·of forming the histogram that is -- that this embodiment
`·3· ·targets in, you know, explaining claim 1.
`·4· · · · Q.· And by part of the iterative process, you mean
`·5· ·this is kind of one step where it's -- you have a box or
`·6· ·the particular area that's being processed at a
`·7· ·particular size; right?
`·8· · · · A.· Well, one iteration, you may have a box of one
`·9· ·size and that box can increase.· Okay.· Sure.
`10· · · · Q.· Okay.· So whenever there is an enlargement of
`11· ·this area of interest that's shown as a box, Figure 22
`12· ·shows that histograms are formed of that area; correct?
`13· · · · A.· Well, you know, in Figure 21, you don't see a
`14· ·histogram.· Okay?· In Figure 22, you do see histograms
`15· ·being formed.· In Figure 23, which is, absurdly enough,
`16· ·further back, you see a hist- -- a subsequent histogram
`17· ·that is formed.
`18· · · · · · · · ·So, I mean, I have no objection to state
`19· ·that there are histograms formed along the way to
`20· ·forming the histogram that is intended in the embodiment
`21· ·in -- described in claim 1.· What we might call the "at
`22· ·least one histogram" of the pixels in, say -- I'll call
`23· ·the first limitation limitation 1(a), and the second
`24· ·one, 1(b), and the third one, 1(c), meaning those are
`25· ·below the preamble.
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`Page 17
`·1· ·those are -- those show histograms.· I'll put it that
`·2· ·way.· They show histograms.
`·3· · · · Q.· Okay.· And the -- are those -- are those
`·4· ·referred to as "projection histograms"?
`·5· · · · A.· I won't object to that.· I'm fine with calling
`·6· ·those projection histograms.
`·7· · · · Q.· Okay.· Is it fair to say that 222 is an X axis
`·8· ·projection histogram?
`·9· · · · A.· It's fine to call it, you know, a histogram.
`10· ·Also, you know, in figure -- later Figure 23, there are
`11· ·histograms that are shown as well, which we might also
`12· ·call, you know, that.
`13· · · · Q.· Okay.· Let's -- let's stay on Figure 22.· So in
`14· ·Figure 22, though, the element 222, you'd agree that's
`15· ·an X axis projection histogram; correct?
`16· · · · A.· I'm fine with saying that that histogram is
`17· ·projection in the X direction, just -- just so it's
`18· ·agreeable with the notation here.
`19· · · · Q.· Okay.· And 224, in Figure 22, is a -- is a
`20· ·Y ax- -- Y axis projection histogram; correct?
`21· · · · A.· I'm -- I'm not going to have a problem with --
`22· ·you know, basically, I think we're just setting up
`23· ·notation here.
`24· · · · Q.· Right.· Okay.· But you would agree that 224
`25· ·is -- is what you would refer to as a "Y axis projection
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`·1· ·histogram"; correct?
`·2· · · · A.· It's a histogram in the Y direction.· I mean,
`·3· ·you know, projected in the Y direction.· It's -- yeah.
`·4· · · · Q.· Do you have an understanding of what a
`·5· ·projection histogram is?
`·6· · · · A.· Sure.
`·7· · · · Q.· What's a projection histogram?
`·8· · · · A.· Well, it's basically a -- a -- you know, if you
`·9· ·have an object in an image, you can project that object,
`10· ·which is an accumulation of evidence.· It is a form of,
`11· ·you know -- it's frequency of occurrence of the object
`12· ·along each projection -- projecting line.· And the
`13· ·histogram accrues that -- that infor- -- that evidence.
`14· ·So...
`15· · · · Q.· Okay.· So in an X axis projection histogram,
`16· ·are you counting the frequency of occurrence of certain
`17· ·pixels along a particular X coordinate?
`18· · · · · · · · ·MR. COULSON:· Objection to form.
`19· · · · A.· Yeah, I -- I didn't really get that.· Maybe you
`20· ·can try -- try that one again.
`21· · · · · · · · ·MR. WHILT:· Will you please read back the
`22· ·question.
`23· · · · · · · · ·(The record was read as
`24· · · · · · · · · follows:
`25· · · · · · · · · "Q.· So in an X axis
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`Page 20
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`·1· · · · A.· Element 222?
`·2· · · · Q.· Yes.
`·3· · · · A.· A histogram.· I mean, it says right here in
`·4· ·column 24, line 39.· Okay?· The histograms 222 and 224
`·5· ·X -- for the X and Y projections.
`·6· · · · Q.· Uh-huh.· And so would you agree that if you
`·7· ·look at column 24, lines 40 to 41, that the projection
`·8· ·histograms in Figure 22 would include any pixels within
`·9· ·the -- the current area of interest where the pixels
`10· ·have a parameter of DP=1?
`11· · · · A.· Well, I mean, you're -- what I'll just say is
`12· ·the specification says (as read):· The histograms 222
`13· ·and 20 -- 224 for the X and Y projections will begin to
`14· ·include pixels, okay, in which DP=1.
`15· · · · · · · · ·This is -- DP is, you know, measurements
`16· ·made out of the image to indicate activity, basically.
`17· ·(As read):· Parenthesis, or any other selected criteria
`18· ·to detect the target edge.
`19· · · · · · · · ·Okay.· Which is -- you know, this DP=1
`20· ·is -- you know, this relates, again, to the claim
`21· ·language.· These are classes of pixels in the domain
`22· ·that are defining the target, those that satisfy DP=1.
`23· ·That's in element 1(a) -- limitation 1(a) of the
`24· ·claim 1.
`25· · · · Q.· Okay.· So the projection histograms in
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`·1· · · · · · · · · projection histogram, are you
`·2· · · · · · · · · counting the frequency of
`·3· · · · · · · · · occurrence of certain pixels
`·4· · · · · · · · · along a particular X
`·5· · · · · · · · · coordinate?")
`·6· · · · A.· You know, I -- it could be counting.· You know,
`·7· ·I mean, that's not the language I used.· I -- I don't
`·8· ·think a histogram in any way is -- is limited to just
`·9· ·counting.· So I will just say accruing evidence along
`10· ·that.· I don't want to limit projection histograms in
`11· ·that manner.
`12· · · · Q.· (BY MR. WHILT)· Okay.· And in an X axis
`13· ·projection histogram, though, you would agree that
`14· ·you're counting the frequency of occurrence of -- strike
`15· ·that.· Let me ask you a different question.
`16· · · · · · · · ·In -- in Figure 22, it shows the X axis
`17· ·projection histogram as element 222.· Would you
`18· ·understand that what that shows is the frequency of
`19· ·occurrence of certain pixels that are on the X axis?
`20· · · · A.· So when I study the associated specification, I
`21· ·don't -- I think you, you know, used the word
`22· ·"counting."· I don't -- I don't see a -- any reference
`23· ·to any counting process.
`24· · · · Q.· What do you -- what is shown in element 222 in
`25· ·Figure 22?
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`Page 21
`·1· ·Figure 22 only count pixels where the parameter DP in
`·2· ·the pixel is equal to 1; correct -- correct?
`·3· · · · A.· So what I'll just say is the formation of the
`·4· ·histogram includes those pixels, what the specification
`·5· ·says.· The reason why I'm not going to quite agree with
`·6· ·your question is that you're importing the word
`·7· ·"counting" again.· And I'll tell you I'm going to pick
`·8· ·up on that every time.
`·9· · · · Q.· Okay.· And what --
`10· · · · A.· Because I'm -- and I'm -- the reason I'm
`11· ·watching for that is because I don't agree that that
`12· ·implication is necessary.
`13· · · · Q.· What term would you use instead of "counting"?
`14· · · · A.· Well, it's just -- I would use what the
`15· ·specification says.· You know, the histograms are being
`16· ·formed by, you know, histogram formation units, which
`17· ·are, you know, described in the -- the specification.
`18· ·And, you know, as I said already, you're accruing
`19· ·information.
`20· · · · Q.· Uh-huh.· And, by that, do you mean the
`21· ·frequency of occurrence of pixels in the square shown on
`22· ·Figure 22, where the pixel has DP=1?
`23· · · · · · · · ·MR. COULSON:· Objection to form.
`24· · · · A.· Yeah.· I mean, just to be clear, I mean, it
`25· ·could be counting.· I'm just saying it's not restricted
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`Page 22
`·1· ·to counting.· Okay.· It's a measurement of the, you
`·2· ·know, frequency of occurrence of pixels that satisfy
`·3· ·that target criteria, which defines the target pixels.
`·4· ·Okay.· So I'm just saying it doesn't have to be
`·5· ·counting.
`·6· · · · Q.· (BY MR. WHILT)· What can it be doing other than
`·7· ·counting?
`·8· · · · A.· Well, you know, a -- a histogram can be a
`·9· ·measurement of, you know, how -- you know, the
`10· ·statistical frequency of occurrence of something in the
`11· ·manner other than just counting.· You know, I mean, the
`12· ·specification -- I don't want to import something into
`13· ·the specification by coming up with something.· It's
`14· ·just that the -- you know, the specification doesn't
`15· ·insist upon counting.· It could be some other additive
`16· ·process, for example.· It could be a weighted additive
`17· ·process.· You know, there's various kinds of histograms
`18· ·that you place various weights on things.· So it's -- it
`19· ·doesn't have to be as simple as counting.
`20· · · · Q.· So in the -- in Figure 22, would you agree
`21· ·that, to the extent there's any pixels in the box shown
`22· ·in that figure, where the pixels have DP=1, that those
`23· ·pixels would be included in the projection histograms
`24· ·that are shown in Figure 22?
`25· · · · A.· Well, as it, you know, points out in column 24,
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`Page 24
`·1· ·teaching that you don't include pixels that don't
`·2· ·include that.
`·3· · · · · · · · ·That's why this language is in the claim.
`·4· ·You can't set aside the language, you know, said "at
`·5· ·least one histogram" referring to classes defining said
`·6· ·target and then, you know, allow, you know, pixels to
`·7· ·be, you know, both defining the target and not defining
`·8· ·the target.· Or, you know, just to give you an example,
`·9· ·in the Gilbert reference, there are pixels that, you
`10· ·know -- that are of the target and not of the target.
`11· ·And, you know, if you allow the claim to cover both
`12· ·pixels that are of the target and not of the target, you
`13· ·are reading this element on the claim.· Okay?
`14· · · · Q.· Sir, I'm not asking you about the claim at this
`15· ·point, and I'm not asking you about Gilbert.· I'm just
`16· ·trying to ask you about your understanding of Figure 22.
`17· · · · · · · · ·Do you understand that?
`18· · · · A.· Well, yeah, but I explained my understanding.
`19· ·And I used Gilbert as a very excellent, cogent,
`20· ·relevant, and on-the-point way of giving my answer in
`21· ·the best possible way.
`22· · · · Q.· Okay.· So focusing on Figure 22, you'd agree
`23· ·that the two projection histograms shown in Figure 22
`24· ·would contain all of the pixels that have DP=1 and that
`25· ·are located in the box shown in Figure 22; correct?
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`Page 23
`·1· ·lines 20 through 24 (as read):· The only pixels that
`·2· ·will be considered by the system are those in the
`·3· ·bounded area with DP=1.· Okay.
`·4· · · · · · · · ·So in the histograming process, as it says
`·5· ·below, 39 through -- well, just extending from line 39
`·6· ·(as read):· The histograms 222 and 224 for the X and Y
`·7· ·projections will begin to include pixels in which DP=1.
`·8· · · · · · · · ·Because, in the iterative process, you
`·9· ·know, the area under consideration is increasing and
`10· ·including pixels that satisfy that criteria.
`11· · · · Q.· Okay.· So to the extent there's any pixels in
`12· ·the box shown in Figure 22 that have DP=1, those would
`13· ·be included in the projection histograms in
`14· ·Figure 22; correct?
`15· · · · A.· Well, I think they would be the pixels -- those
`16· ·would be the pixels that would be included.· The -- you
`17· ·know, the embodiment is teaching a limitation of this
`18· ·claim, where, you know, in limitation 1(a), using the
`19· ·convention that I've already developed, said "at least
`20· ·one histogram" referring to classes defining said
`21· ·target.
`22· · · · · · · · ·So this is the process that's happening.
`23· ·The pixels satisfying DP=1 are in the class defining
`24· ·said target, and the histogram is only, you know,
`25· ·including those.· I don't think -- you know, it's
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`Page 25
`·1· · · · A.· I think that -- you know, I -- I -- I don't
`·2· ·know if that language match.· All I'm saying is that the
`·3· ·pixels within the box that are used, shall we say, to
`·4· ·form the histograms are those that satisfy the criteria
`·5· ·DP=1.
`·6· · · · Q.· So all of the pixels, though, in the box where
`·7· ·DP=1 would be included in the two projection histograms
`·8· ·in Figure 22; right?
`·9· · · · A.· Information about them would be included.
`10· ·Okay?· I mean, and only from those.· But, you know,
`11· ·saying how -- that they're included, you know, bears
`12· ·some interpretation.· So...
`13· · · · Q.· Okay.· Now, if you look at column 24, starting
`14· ·at line 42 in the '134 patent, it states (as read):
`15· ·Prior to further enlarging the area under
`16· ·consideration --
`17· · · · A.· I'm sorry.· I'm in column?
`18· · · · Q.· Sorry.· Can you turn to column 24.
`19· · · · A.· Twenty-four.
`20· · · · Q.· And go to line 42.
`21· · · · A.· Uh-huh.
`22· · · · Q.· Okay.· So starting at line 42 --
`23· · · · A.· Uh-huh.
`24· · · · Q.· -- in column 24, the '134 patent states
`25· ·(as read):· Prior to further enlarging the area under
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`·1· ·consideration, the center of the area under
`·2· ·consideration, which until this point has been the pixel
`·3· ·selected by the user, will be adjusted based upon --
`·4· ·based upon the content of hi