;."'.~ ~. 1,. .... , !
`
`.: ....... , ..... . x .. : :
`
`IN THE DISTRICT COURT OF
`
`MIDLA.t~D COUNTY, TEXAS,
`
`238TH JUDICIAL DISTRIC1'
`
`Page 441
`
`HALLIBURTON ENERGY SERVICES , ) No . CV-44 ,964
`INC. and HALLIBURTDN GROUP
`)
`CANADA
`)
`}
`)
`)
`
`Plaintiffs ,
`
`vs.
`
`PACKERS Pl. US ENERGY SERVICES 1
`INC . ; Pf.)CKERS PLUS ENERGY
`)
`SERVICES, INC . USAj PACKERS PLUS
`ENERGY SERVICES (U.S.A.) LIMITED
`PARTNERSHIP; DANIEL THEHIG;
`)
`P.ETER KRABBEN; and KENNETH
`)
`PAL'fZAT
`
`Defendants.
`
`----···--- - -- - - -·- - - -
`CONTINUED DEPOSITION OF
`DANIEL JON THEMIG
`
`Calgary, Alberta , Canada
`J'pnuary 8 , 2007
`
`Volume 3
`-----
`· .. ·-·--------
`
`r. . v. l'ayne ~
`Esq.
`D. R. Wilson,
`E'sq.
`w. M. Irm<~alle, E'sq .
`
`R. R. Fl~tcher , Esq.
`
`I<. Nash , Esq.
`
`For. Halliburton .Energy Services, Inc. and
`Halliburton Group Canada
`
`For Packers Plas Energy Services Inc . ,
`Packers Plus ·e:nergy Services, Inc . USA,
`and Packers Plus Energy Services
`(U.S.A.) Li mited Partnership
`
`For Daniel Themig, Peter Krabben, and
`Kenneth Pa l tzat
`
`Alana C. Dougl as , CSR(~}
`
`Realtime Repor ter
`
`Independent Reporters
`
`www . indreporter·s . com
`
`

`

`Page 442 !
`
`Page 444
`
`(PROCEEDINGS RESUMED AT9:l3 A.M.)
`TIlE VIDEOGIWHER:
`Here begin.'> Videotape
`Number l in the videotaped deposition of
`Daniel Tbemig in the matter ofHallibnrton Energy
`ct al. vs. Packers Plus Energy ct at. ilt the
`District Court of Midland C.ounty, Texas, 238th
`Jndieial District, Action Nwnber CV-44,9.64.
`Today's date is January Slb, 2007. Time. on the
`video monitor is 0913.
`This video deposition is
`taking place at the office of Macleod Dixon in
`Calga1y, Alberta, C~ada. The video operator
`today is Lee O'Geil of Independent Reporters.
`Court reporter today is Alana Douglas of
`Independent Reporters.
`Would alllhosc present
`please identify yourselves for the record.
`Lcs Payne for plaintiff.
`MR. PAYNE:
`MR. WILSON:
`Douglas Wilson1or
`plaint it f.
`MR. lMW ALLE:
`plaintiff
`MR. SIMPSON:
`Energy Services Inc.
`MR. KRABBEN:
`········ · ····· ···· · ...... ·· ·· ·· ····
`
`William lmwalle for
`
`Jim Simpson, Pac.kers Plus
`
`Peter Kra.~~~ll!...
`
`···
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`f)
`EXHJBIT NUMBER 65:
`1
`NOTICE OF VJDEOT APED DEPOSITiON Of
`DANIEL THEMIG.
`8
`Q MR. PAYNE:
`9
`Mr. Thcmig, you have
`10
`Exhibits 62, 63, 64, and 65 in front of you,
`correct?
`11
`A Yes.
`[12
`)3
`Q These urc various depositi<m notices; 62 is the
`d .4
`dt:(>O no lice for !he Canadian entity. correct?
`' 15
`A Yes.
`Q lfs my understanding that you will testify today
`16
`for the Canadian enliLy on all of the topics
`17
`18
`listed in this notice, with the exception of
`Topics 6, 7. 8, 9, 10, and 20; is that correct'!
`19
`20
`A Yes.
`Q Exhibit 63 is the notice for the Delaware entity,
`21
`com:ct?
`22
`;23 A Yes.
`12 4 Q It's my understanding that you will testifY for
`~ 2 5
`the Delaware entity today on all topics in ~at
`···· ·· ·· ···· ....... ~~~~ · 4 4 s
`;~~~· ~ 4 3 r .. ······· ······
`···· ···· .......... ·· , ... ··--·· ····v· ·· ·
`
`l
`2
`3
`4.
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`2t!
`25
`
`2.
`3
`
`!:•
`6
`7
`8
`9
`lf)
`11
`1 7.
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`lS
`19
`20
`21
`?.2
`23
`2 4
`25
`
`EXHIBIT l\1UMBER 64:
`NOTJCE OF VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF
`PACKERS Pl.US ENERGY SERVICES (U.S.A.)
`LIMITED PARTNERSHIP.
`
`notice .marked as Ex hi hit 63. with the exception
`of2, 3, 4, and 5; is (hal con·ect?
`A Yes.
`Q Exhibit 64 is the nQtice for the partnership,
`correct?
`A Yas.
`Q Let me back up. I've just got it noted.
`Exhibit 62, I don't know if it's clearer based on
`what we've ~iscussed ~o fur, but you're going lo
`.rcstify as to Topic 6 as well, correct?
`MR. PA Th"E:
`Rick, you wunt to help him
`out there'!
`MR. FL.P.TCHER:
`at, Les?
`Exhibit 62, Topic 6, it's
`MR. PAYNE:
`my understanding that Mr. Th~ntig is going to
`testify about that topic as well, correct'?
`MR. fLETCHER:
`I mean, to the extent that
`he has knowledge about that, he'U testify to it.
`Thot draws a legal conclusion that he's not -(cid:173)
`when he's not qualified to testify to that.
`MR ... PAYNE:
`He's the corporate
`representative today for Topic 6 of Exhibit 62,
`right?
`MR. fLETCHER:
`
`That's correct.
`
`Which one are you looking
`
`Can you swenr him in.
`
`Rick Flctchcr for the
`
`And Dan Thcmig, with
`
`·packers Plus.
`MR. PALTZAT:
`Kcn Pnltzat, Pu~kcrs PltL~.
`Kevin Nash for
`MR. NASH:
`Daniel Thcmig, Peter Krnbbcn, and
`Kenneth Palt:tat.
`MR. Fl. ETCHER:
`Pack.,n; Plus entities.
`THl: Wl'rNESS:
`Packers Plus.
`MR. PAYNE:
`please.
`DANIEL JON THEMIG, duly tesworn.
`Q MR. ~·A YNE:
`MT. Themig, good morning.
`A Good rooming.
`Alwa, did y(m give him
`MR. T'AYNE:
`Exhibits 62 through 65'!
`EXHIBIT NUMBER 62:
`NOTICe OF VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITTON OF
`Pt\ CKERS PLUS ENERGY SERVICES JNC.
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`·11
`;12
`13
`1 4
`1 5
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`EXIUBJT NUMBER 63:
`NOTICE OF VIDEOTAPED DEPOSlT'lON OF
`22
`PACKERS I'LUS ENERGY SERVTCES, INC. USt\. 2 3
`24
`25
`
`Independent Reporters
`
`2 (Pages 442 to 44 5 )
`www. indreporters.com
`
`

`

`Page 446 i
`
`!vtr. Thetnig, is that
`
`Page 448
`1 Q And those ~-re your five ditlerent types of
`Q MR. P A Th'E:
`completion products that Packers Plus offers
`correct?
`2
`cmrently; ·is tbat correct?
`A That is correct.
`3
`4 A The lisi is on otir ·w cb -page; probably .not
`Q . We were talking about Exhibit 64, Mtich .. is the
`pmtne~sbip notice, and it's my understanding
`inclusive.
`.
`5
`6 Q So this_ listing is not exhaustive?
`that-_yQU're going to testify ioduy on behalf of
`7 A I don't know whether it is or not.
`the partnership as to all of the topics ir11his
`· 8 Q What other categotics would you·add to describe
`notice, other than 2, 3, 4, and 5, C{.lriect?
`completion products that Packers-Plus currently
`9
`A Yes.
`often;, .if any?
`Q Exhibit 65 is your individual deposition notice,
`ll 0
`correct?
`llJ: A We might add flow control. There might be
`'12
`()then;. N<Ything else comes to mind. altltO\tgb
`-A Yes.
`flow controf might be covered in production
`i 13
`Q You're _here to testify in your .individual
`; 14
`accessories •
`·
`.
`capacity as welt, correct.?
`i 15 Q Y cs~ i believe flow control is under o11e of these
`A Yes.
`Q In respect to the 'topics on whiuh you're going to
`i 1 6
`topics.
`: l 7
`testify today fo·r the yariol!S e:ntiHe&; can you
`Is there anything else?
`tell me how nmcll time you spent preparing for
`'18 A. Not that I can think of right n~w.
`'1 ~ Q The rcference ·t~l "Open Hole Packet'S," which i-s
`those topics.
`It~m 3, isa.reference to your Roc.kSeal product
`A Severa! bol:ll'S.
`!20
`Q Can. you be more specific, plea.~e.
`121
`line, correct?
`l22 A It's a reference to RockScal packers or
`A Probably around ten hours.
`Q Did you consult with anyone else at Packers Plus !23
`inflatable packers.
`:2 4 Q What inflatable. packers do you oiler?
`ou~sidc the presence of YOl)r counsel on any of
`..... .... ,' ~.? ..... ~\ :~V:~ ~~Ie~:s~r:v.i_c.~--~()_()~s ()~-~~l'l~~~~-P.~.?~~.~fo..r. ....... .
`---~1~~~-~-~'!.P_i~_s.?. ...............
`.
`Page 449
`Page 447!
`
`A _No .
`Q You didn't talk to anyone dsc nt Puck.cfs Plus to
`educate yourself on those topic~ io conncctiofl
`with th~sl?pcpo notices?
`A Not specifie<tlly on the depo notices:
`MR. PAYNE:
`_Let's niark iliis as the
`next exhibit, please.
`EXHIBIT NUMBER 66:
`PACKERS PLUS ENI:."RGYSERViCES INC. WEB
`SITE M.t\'f.ERfALS.
`Q MR. PAYNE:
`Mr, Themig,you have
`Exhibit 66 in fronl of you, oon-ect~!
`A Yes.
`Q TI1is i!;, I'll represent· to you, a printout of fhe
`recurrent Packers Plus Web site materials. Does
`thnt look corrc~t to you'!
`Jt does .
`A
`Q .Let'$ !um to· ~he page that's Bates stamped the
`Jast th.r~c digits 382, pl~asc. Uflder "Complcti!m
`Product~" y<ru list fiv.e products, <.'tll~t'?
`A Yc::;.
`Q .Retrievable-Packers, Seul Bore Packers, Oj>en Hole
`Packers, Pr<tduction Accessories, and. Service
`Tools, correct?
`A Yes.
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`e
`9
`.10
`~ 11
`'12
`:-13
`;14
`[15
`16
`;17
`: lS
`;19
`!20
`~2'1
`:22
`:23
`',24
`i25
`
`:-·
`
`extetnul-casH1g packers, production and testing
`packers, and soxnc i11flatable production packe.i-s
`as well.
`Q Are the RockSeal packers lt~cd primarily in open
`hole?
`A They're used both in open hole au<l cased hok
`Q Tite question is. Ate they USed primarily U~ open
`hole?
`A Thc/ve been used mor-e in opc_n hole than they
`have in. cased boLe .
`Q Can you· quantify how much more.
`A Probably 90 percent open hole; l 0 percent in
`cased hole.
`Q What other packers does Pack~rs .Plus offer that
`are used.in open-hole situation, other (han
`Rock Seals?
`A We use the RockSe-als, we use iritlatable packers,
`we use e.xternal~casing packers .tor ~tage
`~mentjng jobs, we use certain test to.ols,
`re5ettable packers as well.
`Q We'll briefly go over y<lllr product line here and
`get a better feel for the complete line. Let's
`tum to the page that's nates stamped at the last
`three digits 3.84, please.
`A 384?
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
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`25
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`Independent Reporters
`
`3 (Pages 446 to 449)
`www.ind.reporte.rs . com
`
`

`

`Page 450
`
`Page 4 52
`
`Q Yes. This ?age lists various retrievable
`1
`packers, com:ct?
`2
`A Yt..-s.
`3
`Q Arc any of these packl.'fS used in open-hole
`4
`5
`situation?
`6
`A 1 believe the CP 'Packo!fHrmgcr potentially is.
`GV -Cup Packers--
`7
`8
`Q Hang on one second. The CP Pack.offHanger,
`9
`that's Number 2'1
`) o
`A Yes.
`~ 1 l
`Q What other packer~ might be used in open hole?
`A The GV-Cup Pnckers. There's one of the tension
`~ 1 2
`packers tlrat is used in op<.-n 'hole.
`j1 3
`!14
`Q Which one is thul'?
`A It may potentially be the 1 R or I R, lS.
`1 15
`j 16
`Q Oo you know which ~)!IC?
`~ 1. 7
`A I don't.
`Q You want Jo look at that pugc for lhe 1 R and IS
`: l. 8
`real quickly and Jet me know if you can tell me?
`19
`; :w
`A Yes. Jbe I R is and the l S aiSI>.
`Q But the J R and IS are u.~d in opettllolc'!
`~ 21
`' 22
`A Yc!;.
`Q t\uything else. under "RETRIEVABLE .PACKER... '\I' that's j ~ 3
`used in the opcn·hulc situatjon'?
`, 2 ~
`A. There's n version ot'the Plus-4 ihnt wmiid be
`: 25
`
`"proprietary"?
`A That we're t.be only ones that se!l them?
`Q Yes, basically that as opposed to 11 product
`that's manufactured by a third party pursuant to
`the third flatty's designs und sold to companies
`other than Packers Plus.
`·
`A l believe that the IR nnd the IS and a version of
`the Plus-4 and the G V ..Cup Pucker would have some
`potential applications that would be •• like,
`that could be proprietary. Probably not the GV
`packer, I don't think it would be, but tllere arc
`some of these that have a derivution that is
`proprietary to us.
`Q I want to .make sure 1 understand. The Type
`GV-Cup Packer listed here is not proprietury to
`Packers Plus; is 1l1at what you're saying'?
`A No, it wouldn't be.
`Q Il would not be?
`A It would not be .
`Q But you l.isted the IR, TS, and possibly the
`Plus--4 -(cid:173)
`A Yes.
`Q -- ns being proprietary to Packers Pins. correct?
`A A version of them.
`. .Q .. q~l?.i:O..~~~~OII:S 1>,~· th~~? ............. .. .......... .
`
`Page 451
`
`Pag~ 453
`
`l
`~~.
`Q Okny. Anything else: wult:r "ltETRTEV ABLE Pt\CKBRS"'l : 2
`3
`A T'nat's all that's in this section.
`Q For op~u-hole situations, correct'!
`4
`A Yeah. All that's includei! in here!; i1.'~ not all
`5
`the open-hole packers, hut it -·
`6
`Q I'm asking you ·undeor the listing that comprises
`'7
`"RETRIEVABLE PACKERS" on thi.s specific page to
`8
`idcritify all the packers that cnn be used iu
`9
`open-hole situation, aud you've done your bes! .to
`i 1 0
`identify those pat;kers, correct'!
`~ 1 1
`A Yes, sir.
`11. 2
`i 13
`Q C.an any oflhose packers be used by themselves to
`isolate zones in the o~ hole?
`1 1 4
`A Y~.
`!15
`Q Without the usc ofRockSeals?
`; 16
`A Yes.
`!1.7
`Q· Can all of them that you tis roo acc(llnplisll that
`~ :t 8
`! 19
`function?
`A They should all - 1 believe they could nil be
`~ 2 0
`used to isolate ;lOncs.
`; 2 1
`i 22
`Q Are any of these design~ proprietary to
`Packers Plus'! I'm talking about the designs
`, 2 3
`under "RETIUEVABLE PACKERS" on page 3:84. Let me
`. 24
`ba~.:k up. Do you know what 1 mean by
`2 5
`
`A A modification of them would be proprietary to
`us.
`Q Can you be more spcciJic as to which versions,
`you know, in terms of u date or a model number
`or, yun know, nomenclature. an)1bing·9fthat
`nature.
`A Those tools are included in our RockSeal Straddle
`Packers and our test tools.
`Q Okay. So when you say "applications," do you
`mean they're used in proprietary app.lications
`versus proprietary designs that Packers Plus has
`·created?
`A 'Yon would have to be more specific. l don't
`undetstalld those tcnns.
`Q You used the word "applicatious" I think in your
`testimony.
`A Okay.
`Q I assume you meant the way they're used downhole;
`is that correct?
`A It would bel think the designs of the tools, and
`it may include some of these; they potentially
`could be used downhole.
`Q So to be clear, Jet's 'talk about the designs of
`the too1s, okay?
`A Okav.
`
`).
`2
`~
`4
`5
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`Independent Reporters
`
`4 (Pages 450 to 453}
`
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`
`

`

`Page 45" 1'
`Page 1155
`..
`Q You listed Jhe IR, t.s. and Plus-4 as being
`1 Q I'm not sti.rc which item you're referring to. Js
`proprictaty to Packers Plus as tar as the designs
`that Item 2 in the lisl'l
`2
`3 A Page 405, 406.
`ofthose tools, correct'?
`4 Q Anythitlg else?
`A A derivation of those tools, yes.
`Q Is that your testimony'?
`5 A l believe ·that probably is it
`6 Q With respect to those items you just listed under
`A That is my testimony, sir.
`Q Let's move to page 403 of Exhibit 66, please,
`"Seal Bore Packers" that are used in an open-hole
`7
`environment., can any of those products by
`which is a listing ofyom seal bore packers,
`8
`themselves isolate 1.ones in open hole?
`9
`correct.? Or at least it's entitled "SeaJ Bore
`i 1 0 A Yes.
`Packers," correct?
`·11 Q Which ones?
`A Yes, it's titled "Seal Bore Packers."
`Q Can any of these. packers be used in an open-hole 12 A Thc.Pctmanelll-.Plus Seal Bore Packers could
`isolate zones, arid the .Permanent-Plus l3LB Packer
`~ 13
`situation?
`A ln the --
`could be used to isolate zones. The
`l'l
`~ 15
`Q Let me claritY the question, l'm sorry. Have any
`Permanent-Plus Contin.uous Seal Bore Pucker could
`of these packers listed under "Seal Bore Packers"
`:1 6
`be used to isolate zones. The Severe Service
`been used in the open-hole situation'!
`(HPH1) Pennanent-Plus Seal Bore Packer coltld be
`17
`used to isolate t:oncs. The R.SB Retrievable Seal
`A The Retrievable PBR System. has been used.
`18
`Q Has been used in open hoi~ correct?
`19
`Bore Packer could be used to isolate zones in
`open hole, and the L T Liner Tic-Back
`A Yes.
`2 0
`Q Anything else'?
`Permanent-Plus Packer could be used to isolate
`:21
`A Yeah. A number of the accessories listed in this
`[22
`zones.
`:2 3 Q Have any of those packers actually been used by
`section have been used as w.ell.
`Q Which ones?
`j 2 'l
`Pack~J'l:i Plus to isolate :-..ones by themsclvc!l'?
`.~ .. ~.&~v~ .. Y?.~t .. l,h.at l!~t .. a.t:.!~~ .. ~~~t~.t~.U.P .. ~i~y~_ ..
`A Seal Bore Extctls:ion.
`j 2 5
`...... ..... . ........ ..... ...
`P;;!ge 4 57
`
`Pa~-~ .. ~.~ ~ .. r· .... ,...
`
`Q Can you tell me where you're reading from,
`please.
`A 415 .
`Q Fifteen, 415?
`A Yeah, l34l5.
`Q Okay.
`A Pump·Ou~ Plug, Knock-Out Plug, Tubing Adapter
`Bot(O.Ill, Wireline.Rc-Entry, Mill-Out/Seal Bore
`Coupling, Mill-Out Bxt-cnsion, Seal Bore
`Extension.
`
`Lak b Seal Locator, Anchor
`
`Latch Seal --
`Q Where arc you reading now?
`A 416.
`
`Anchor Latch Seal
`Al!Sembly, Tubing to Seal Cwssovcr, Se.a.l Unit,
`and a form of Severe Service One Piece Seat
`Assembly.
`Q Anything else listed tmdcr "Seal Bore Packers" on
`page 403 that can be used or bas been used jn
`open hole?
`A The Seal Bore -- Penna-Plus Seal Bore. Packers,
`.Perma- I believe the Seal Bore·- Pcrma·Plus
`Seal Bore ·- Pennancnt-Pius Seal Bore Packers
`have been 11Sed in oncn hole too.
`
`all of those have been used.
`1
`2 Q Y <m said --
`3 A Your question to me at that point wa-;, What have
`you guys used to isolate zones, or what bas
`4
`Puckers·· anyway. sony.
`5
`6 Q But in your testimtiuy 1 heard you say "could be
`used." !just want to make sure l understand
`7
`which ones have actually bt.-en used for that
`8
`purpose specifi(.w,lJly lO seal or isolate zones in
`9
`10
`an open-hole env.ironment.
`.
`11 A Okay. Your first question spcdtically wus that,
`so I gave you that list. and my understanding of
`12
`: 1 3
`your second question was what could be used to
`; 14
`isolate zones, and so the second list was not the
`·15
`same as the first. The 'fi.rst one would be
`·1. 6
`inclusive of things that we have used. The
`; 17
`second one would be inclusive of things that
`could pe used as wcll.
`18
`.1 9 Q Okay. \.Vhicb of these designs tmder "Seal Bore
`20
`Packers" wou.ld you consider to be proprietary
`desizns lo Packers Plus?
`21
`22 A Th~re is a version of the LT Liner Tic-Back
`23
`Permanent-Plus Packer that i!l proprietary to us,
`a11d there's a vc.rsion that is not. I think
`'2 4
`2 5
`·that's it.
`
`1
`2
`3
`4.
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`1 4
`l:i
`16
`17
`18
`19
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`15
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`I ndependent Reporter s
`
`5 (Pages 454 to 457)
`www.indreporters.com
`
`

`

`Page 458 ~
`
`Page 460
`
`.. i.
`2
`3
`4
`5
`
`6 .,
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`8
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`12
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`17
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`2S
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`Q That's the comp_lctc listing under "Senl Bore
`1
`2
`Packers"?
`3
`A (No verbal response.)
`Q You~-
`4
`A Yes.
`5
`Q -- hav~ to give an. audible tesponsc. That's
`6
`7
`okay.
`A Yes. Yes.
`·8
`• 9
`Q Let's moye on to the next category in the Web
`•1 0
`si(e 11Ulterials, which is on p.ag~ 420. Tlus page
`•11
`is :entitled "Open Hole Puckers," correct?
`A Jus.
`:12
`Q It lists l<.lur different versions of the R9CkSeal
`~13
`: 14.
`product line, correct?
`·
`jlS
`A II does.
`Q Are there other RockS-cal prOducts that are not
`)6
`listed here pn page 420? ln other words, rm
`i 1 7
`!18
`trying to get n feel for the extent ofthe
`! 19
`RockScal product Hne; There are four: things
`:2 0
`Ji!;ted here. I want to know jf thefc's anything
`j21
`els~ that's not listed here that tans under the
`wnbre.lla ofthe RockSeal produd tine. Do you
`•22
`~2·3
`understand whut l'm.ll'!king?
`:?.. 4
`A T believe l do understand: I thlnkthese
`c;a~~gt)~C.~ ~~IJid C(ly~r .. t~~ ~o~~~a.l 1?!.~~~~- li.n_e.: ... : 25
`Page 459 '
`
`1 Q You !hink this is an ex·hausti w: listing?
`l believe it is.
`2 A
`3 Q J've seen some drawings that are called som~thing
`to the effect ofRockSea.J cut-release drawings.
`4
`Are you familiar with that riomcncluture?
`5
`6 A Y~.
`7 Q 1 dor1't sec ~he so-callt:d cui--release RockSeal
`product listed on here.
`8
`9 A It's not a separate product line; iCS just a
`subset of the RockSealll or the US.
`1 0
`11 Q The cut release is a subset of the n or liS?
`12
`.A Yes.
`13 Q Arc tb~re any more ~ubsets that would faH under
`any of these four categories that you ·could tell
`14
`me about'?
`15
`16 A lbcrc's other releasing mcchanisrf\s for the tools.
`1 7 Q Such as ... ?
`18 A Such as a. shear r~:;lease, sucb as, I believe, a
`•19
`ooll-an<l-seat.teleasc. you mentioned die cut
`release, wd there's a collet shifting release.
`20
`21 Q "Collet" shjfting?
`22 A CoUct. It's a ffi(..>chanical device that locks the
`2 3
`. packer in the set position and then later can. be
`2 4
`shifted to release it so you can pull it ont of
`25
`'the··.hole.
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
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`i21
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`~25
`
`And w~'ve got different
`trim and different packi.ng elements,. dif1crcnt
`coating:- that we can put on the packers,
`diffcrenfthreads: premium threads, EUE tlu-eads.
`We've got.differcnt diameters of the tools for
`different hole si?..es~ We've got different tubing
`sizes. We've got di'fferent pressure ratings.
`We've got different mate1ials that we build the
`tools out of. We've got CRA applications that we
`can build t~c tools out of. So there's a lot of
`variations of tht:se.
`Q Is it <.~orrcct. that tbe.Roc.kScal product line is
`the most popul~r P~ckers Plus produ~ line for
`opcn~hole applications'?
`A Not .necessarily.
`Q Why do you say that?
`A We've got a series of fi·ac ports and circulating
`devices that are prob~bly equivalent as far as
`numbers installed in open hole.
`Q The frac ports are 'used with RockScal packers,
`correct?
`A 'Sometimes they arc; sometimes thefre not.
`Q .A;J:e they used by themselves to seal a hole?
`A They arc used by themselves to place ·fluids,
`. Vl~t<;:h iE, ~.l?l;l!p(~~~~-- J~.~)' .. ~.()_fl~t~~~-~-a~X.P.':'rpo.s.c .....
`Pag·e 46 1
`
`in sealing anything.
`Q They have -- the fro~c ports have to be used wHh
`packers, ~orrect?
`A No~ neceswril~/; but-typically they ore.
`Q As far as yom packers, 'is.it.a trtie statement
`that the RockSeal product line is the most
`popu~ar packer pro<;iuct line for open-hole
`appiications?
`A No.
`Q Why is that not true?
`A Hecausc Baker's impasse, they probably nm four
`tjm~s as many as we do, Baker's inflatable(cid:173)
`Q l'm talk1ngubout .Packers Plus sales now.
`A Oh, as t!:u' us -~
`Q Not tlie whole. iildustry. I'm jus~ talYJ11g aboul
`Packers Pitts sa,cs. l apologize, J. wasn't
`sp~ific. r want t.o know iftllt: RockSeal product
`Hne is Packers Plus' most popular packer product
`line for open-hole applications.
`A Yes.
`Q Far and ~way'!
`A lt's tl\e most popu.lat one for opt!n hole for us.
`Q L~t's m9ve to page 422, wluch discusses your
`RockSeal n packers, COlTect?
`A Yes ..
`
`Independent Reporters
`
`6 (Pages 458 to 461)
`www.ind.r.eporters.com
`
`

`

`Page 462!
`
`Page 4 64
`
`>o
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`
`1 Q ls the RockSealli the most populm: RockS~
`packer?
`2
`3 A Taken as a whole and all its derivations, yes, it
`would be the most popular.
`4
`5 Q You say in the 11rst s~nt:ence the RockSeal n
`packer is· a first for t!1e oil and gas rndustry,
`6
`7
`correct?
`A Yes.
`8
`9 Q Why is the RockSeal II p11cker u fust'!
`10 A rm nolsure why that statement is there.
`•lJ
`l l Q Well, do you agree with the statement?
`:12
`12 A No.
`13
`J3 Q You thin(( the .statement 1 just read abQut the
`RockSeal JI packer being. a first is false'?
`:14
`1.4
`15
`15 A As far as tlus tool goes, yes.
`;16
`16 Q Who wrote. that sentence?
`17
`17
`.I'm not sure.
`A
`18
`18 Q Can you give tuc some candidates, pk.ase.
`19 A Could have been somebody from marketing. Could 119
`'20
`20
`have been somebody from our sales group. It
`,21
`could have been our tech services peopk
`21
`!22
`22 Q Give me some specitic names, please.
`!23
`23 A lt conldbave been Darlys Bates, Cindy Duckett,
`:24
`Btyce Fletcher. Could have l:iecn me, Jt could
`24
`have been Johil Zukowski. Peter Krabben
`?.~
`25
`........ ... ..... .............................. ········ .........
`Page 46 3 :
`:
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`.. ..
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`1
`potentially. Might have been Sloane Muscrotl.
`1
`..... "
`Maybe Margaret .Kirkland.
`2
`3
`3 Q Do· you know how long this statement has been in
`4
`your Web site materials?
`4
`!)
`A No.
`5
`6
`6 Q Hasn't it been there since (he beginning?
`7
`I do.n't know.
`7
`A
`8
`8 Q Are you going to take it off of your Web site
`9
`materials?
`9
`10
`10 A l don't know whether w·e wiU or 110t.
`11 Q You might keep a thlsc statement in your Web site ,11
`:1 2
`materjals?
`12
`113
`Objection . .form.
`13 MR. NASH:
`)4
`Objection.
`11J MR. FLETCHER:
`' 15
`OBJECTION TO QUESTION
`15
`16
`16 A I don't know whether we'll keeP. it or 11ot.
`17
`Lcs, can we have an
`17 MR. NASH:
`18
`agreement that if OJlC of us makes an objection,
`18
`19
`we don't have to repeat it?
`19
`:20
`Y cs, sure. That's tine.
`20 MR. PAYNE:
`.....
`21
`If we speak
`?1 MR. NASH:
`:22
`simul!Jmeously, not much we can do aboul that.
`22
`;23
`Why is l.be statement not
`23 Q MR. PAYNE:
`24
`accurate according to you?
`24
`25
`A From ·the standpaint of a dual-clement hydraulic
`25
`
`I ndependent Reporte.r:s
`
`packer, Baker hud a Twin Seal packer that had
`been on the market for over ten years. When we
`left.lfalliburton, D&L wa~ already making a
`dual-element packer. Guiberson bad made a
`dual-element packer. Guiberson bad made a
`triple-element packer. Weatherford had built a
`similar packer to the Wi1..ard packer. Baker had
`built an impasse packer, which is an open-hole
`hydraulic~- or hydrostatic set packer.
`And then as far as
`opcn~hole comprt~sion element packers,
`Halliburton had built DST tools like that, as
`wdl as Scl\lumberger had, for probably 40 years
`before we ever -- I ever even entered the
`industry.
`Q ls it aecurate that Lhe RockSeal U is a ti.rst in
`the sense that its collection of features were
`not found pn any pre-existing packer?
`A No.
`Q Do you think all oftbe feutures ofthe
`RockSeal-- now I'm speaking about the
`RockSealll specifically ~- wete those features
`fhund on a pre-existing packer, a single packer?
`A J believe that they were.
`.Q .. 1.-A~~.tl~l>.S.CJ>.<l:<~~e~~.f<?.r. J.l:l.~·.. ... ..
`
`. .. .
`.. .. .... ..... ...... .........
`Page 465
`
`A Well, it would have been the Baker Twin Seal.
`Would b~vc been potentially the tandem hydraulic,
`the Wizard packer. Weatherford bas--
`Q Hold on a second. Taudcrn hydraulic. that's a
`Guiberson packer?
`A It is a Guiberso'n packer, and Halliburton had
`OliQ, and Baker had one us wdl.
`Q You're sayi'ng with respect to the so-called
`tandem hydraulic packer thatGuibcrson had a.
`version, Buker had a version, and Halliburton had
`a versioi1; is that correct'?
`A Theydid.
`Q Is that your testimony?
`A Yes.
`Q You're saying Ulat's one of the packer designs
`that you tbil\lc malre!! this statement false?
`.A I believe it is.
`Q Yon mentioned the Wizard as well, right?
`A 1 did mentiQn the Wizard.
`Q So right now I've written down the Baker Twin
`Seal packer, the tandem hydraulic packer sold by
`Guiberso~ Baker, and Halliburton, and the
`Wi7.ard, which is an original Guiberson design.
`rs that your testimony so f.'U''!
`A No. There's more.
`( Page s 462 to 465)
`7
`www.indreporters.com
`
`

`

`Page 466 '
`Q 1 want to understand every single packer that you
`1
`think renders this statement a falsity.
`2
`3
`A Okay.
`Q So I've got the listing today correct, right?
`4
`A That's a pqrtiattisting.
`5
`Q So Jet's go through the rest of them.
`6
`A Okay. Halliburton has a Wizard U.l packer.
`7
`Q The Wizard ill djdn"t exist before the
`8
`RockSeal Jl was designed, correct?
`9
`10
`A No.
`Q I'm talking about packers that existed before 1he
`U.
`RockSealll was designed. I think we can agree
`12
`that ·• let's jus! usc a date of January 2000,
`13
`14
`okay?
`·
`A Okay.
`1,5
`Q I'm talking about packers that existed before
`: .l6
`; 1 7
`January of 2000.
`il O
`A Okay.
`Q And I want a oomplctc listing of those packers
`11 9
`i2o
`that you think renders this statement auout the
`j 21
`RockS cal fi being a f!J'St false. Do you follow
`what I'm.gctting at?
`!22
`~ 2 3
`A Yep.
`! 2 4
`Q So you've talkt:d ubout the:: Baker Twin Seal
`! ... 25
`k
`?
`puc. er,, Cf:Jfi'CCI. .
`. .............................. .
`Pa9e 457 !
`
`A Yes.
`Q That's before Jauuary of2000, correct'?
`A Yes.
`Q We've talked about the tandem hydmulic packer.
`A Yes.
`Q That's before January 2000, correct?
`A Yes.
`Q We've talkc.d about the Wizard packcrtoo.
`A Yes.
`Q That's before January of2000, correct?
`A Yes.
`Q Give .me a:ny other packers thal exist.cd before
`January of 2000 that you think rcuders this
`statement a falsity.
`A Okay. Weatherford.
`Q Which pa~kcr specifically'?
`A There's an opcn~holc. version similar to the
`Wizard .packer.
`Q What was it called?
`A 1 don't know the name of it.
`Q How would I find out that oamC??
`A You would huve to talk to Weatherford.
`Q Is there a docwncnt I can look alto figure out
`that name or that you can look at to figure out
`that name?
`
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`211
`25
`
`Independent .Report ers
`
`P::sge 468
`A No. sir. You would have to talk to Wcatherlbrd.
`Q Any other packers?
`A Yes. The G··77.
`Q Anything else?
`A W Otild you read tbc list back, please.
`Q Sure. The Twin Seal pucker, the G~77, the tandem
`hydraulic packer) the Wizard packer, and tl1is
`Weatherford packer whose name you can't recall.
`A Okay.
`Q Is that a complete listing?
`A No.
`Q Or arc thc.rc others'?
`A There's others. The Baker impasse. P&L had a
`packer. It was •· I can't remcn:Iber the name of
`it, but they had au open-hole packer as well.
`Q Is il your tcstin1ony that D&L before Janua1y of
`2000 bad an open-hole packer that renders this
`stat.cment that we focused on at page 422 a
`tidsity?
`A 1 believe it could render it.
`Q I'm not talking about "could." I. w.ant your
`position 011 Lhill.
`A Okay.
`.It's your opinion that this statement that we
`Q
`f~.ll~.C.~Y:l'l: a~~~ the ~to.~k,S.e~UI p~~~~.r .~~?.~ ~
`Pa~re 4 69
`
`first is inaccurate, correct'?
`A At the time, in January of2000, yes. Okay.
`Yes, I)&L had a packer that would render this
`statement untniC.
`Q What wa.~ it called?
`A I don't know. I don't have D&L's catalog here,
`so J can't recall the name of it.
`Q Are ihey selling thut packer today?
`A Y cs, they arc.
`Q Is Wc-.atherford selling the packer you w·crc
`referring to today?
`A 'J believe they nrc; but I'm not cet1ain o.f that.
`Q So you can't give me any more specific
`information about that D&L packer tQ which you're
`referring?
`A Not here, not now, no.
`Q You wmlld have to look at a D&L brochure?
`A Anybody coulo lo(lk it up. I believe it's still
`on their Web page.
`Q Is there anything else you want to add to the
`list?
`A Not that! could think of right now.
`Q The p~kcrs that you've just listed that you
`think make this statement talse, arc they aU
`o
`·hole ackcrs?
`8 (Pages 466 to 469)
`www. i ndreporters.corn
`
`

`

`Page 4 70 ;
`·:
`A They can be run either in open hole or .;ascd
`1
`hole.
`2
`Q .They can .aU be nm in open hole?
`3
`A Yes.
`'l
`Q Cim they all be used by themselves lo isolate or
`5
`seal zones in open-hole «nvironmcnt'!
`6
`A Yes:
`7
`Q What ls it specifically about ·those packers
`8
`you've listed that you think makes tliis ~tatemetit
`9
`untru.c?
`)0
`A They would be similar in capabilities and
`ill
`features t(i what this tool does.
`)2
`Q Let's go on with page 422 nnd talk about some of
`~ 13
`the features that are listed here. The firs.t
`14
`feature that'~ listed is the double dement,
`)15
`!Hi
`correct?
`!17
`A Yes.
`ls that u crilical'tcature oft he RockSeal ll?
`Q
`il 8
`' .
`A h's not. a crili calleanrre.
`: 19
`Q l~s not?
`i20
`)2 1
`A No.
`Q Do you remember giving some testimony in the Peak j22
`case about the double element being a critical
`; 2 :j
`teatun~?
`~ 2 4
`A . ~.<>.~ -~ ~:~.r~me.nt?.et~_that testimony.
`. :.2~
`Page 471 '
`
`2
`3
`4
`
`Q You don't remember, ok~y. We might just come
`back to thax.
`. So 1 just·wan{ to make
`sure today it's your testm;10ny that-the doQble
`elen'sent ori the RockScalii is not .a critical
`6
`element.
`What are you r.efening t.o
`MR. FLETCHER:
`7
`8
`as the "d9nble element~''!
`lt's listed here on
`9
`MR. PAYNE:
`fine l. It-says(quoted):
`10
`"The packer is a double element. solid
`1
`body packer."
`l2
`Q MR. }>A YNE:
`You know what l 'm talking 13
`aboilt, the· doub 1 c e tcment.?
`1 4
`-A Yes.
`15
`lfyou refer to the
`MR. FLETCHER:
`16
`"Features" dowtl at 3. 1.2.
`l 7
`Q MR. t> A YNE:
`There's two rubber
`18
`clcmcl'its on the RockSeal 11, con-ect?
`19
`A Con-ect.
`2 0
`Q Arc those .t<..vo rubber clements a critical feature
`21
`for. the RQck~lii?
`2 2
`A No.
`23
`Q Arc they an important feature'?
`2 4
`A J'm not sure how thev 'Wou.ld rate as tar as
`2 5
`
`Pa ge 472
`
`importance ·compared to others offered in the
`industry,
`Q Well,' it's the tlrst·featurc you list on your W¢b
`site materials, isn't it?
`A Typically on packer~, on features they'll list
`how many elements that· they have.
`Q Mr. Themig, it's the·first feature listed in your
`Web site materiaL-;, correct'?
`A That is correct, yep.
`'Q Another elemen~ listed on line 3.is the
`dua