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`Page 1
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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
` COXCOM, LLC,
`
` Petitioner,
` CASE IPR2015-01760
` vs. PATENT 6,549,130
`
` JOAO CONTROL & MONITORING
` SYSTEMS, LLC,
` Patent Owner.
`
` VOLUME I
` DEPOSITION OF
` RICHARD BENNETT
`
` April 28, 2016
` 9:44 A.M.
` 1100 Peachtree Street, NE
` Suite 1100
` Atlanta, Georgia
` Lee Ann Barnes, CCR-1852, RPR, CRR
`
` Job No. CS2300074
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`800-567-8658
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` APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL
`
` On behalf of the Petitioner:
` KILPATRICK TOWNSEND & STOCKTON LLP
` D. CLAY HOLLOWAY, ESQ.
` 1100 Peachtree Street, NE
` Suite 2800
` Atlanta, Georgia 30309-4528
` 404.815.6537
` 404.541.3484 (facsimile)
` cholloway@ktslaw.com
`
` On behalf of the Patent Owner:
` INSIGHT, PLC
` STEVEN RITCHESON, ESQ.
` 9800D Topanga Canyon Boulevard, #347
` Chatsworth, California 91311
` 818.882.1030
` swritcheson@insightplc.com
`
` Also Present:
` Raymond Joao
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` INDEX OF EXAMINATION
`
` WITNESS: RICHARD BENNETT
`
` EXAMINATION PAGE
`
` By Mr. Ritcheson 5
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` INDEX TO EXHIBITS
` Patent Owner's
` Exhibit Description Page
`
` Exhibit 1 Notice of Deposition of 23
` Richard Bennett
` Exhibit 2 Declaration of Richard 15
` Bennett in Support of
` Petition for Inter Partes
` Review of U.S. Patent No.
` 6,549,130 Under 35 U.S.C. §§
` 311-319 and 37 C.F.R. §§
` 42.1-.80 & 42.100-.123
` Exhibit 3 U.S. Patent Application No. 25
` 08/622,749
`
` Exhibit 4 United States Patent No. 54
` 6,549,130 B1
` Exhibit 5 Decision, Institution of 63
` Inter Partes Review, 37
` C.F.R. §42.108
` Exhibit 6 U.S. Patent No. 5,875,430 70
` Exhibit 7 U.S. Patent No. 5,805,442 135
` Exhibit 8 Declaration of Richard 16
` Bennett in Support of
` Petition for Inter Partes
` Review of U.S. Patent No.
` 7,397,363 Under 35 U.S.C. §§
` 311-319 and 37 C.F.R. §§
` 42.1-.80 & 42.100-.123
` (Original exhibits are attached to the
` Original transcript.)
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` Deposition of RICHARD BENNETT
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` April 28, 2016
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`Page 5
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` (Reporter disclosure made pursuant to
`
` Article 8.B of the Rules and Regulations of the
`
` Board of Court Reporting of the Judicial
`
` Council of Georgia.)
`
` RICHARD BENNETT, having been first duly sworn,
`
` was examined and testified as follows:
`
` EXAMINATION
`
` BY-MR. RITCHESON:
`
` Q. Could you state and spell your name for
`
` the record, please?
`
` A. Richard Bennett, B-E-N-N-E-T-T.
`
` Q. Thank you, Mr. Bennett. My name is Steven
`
` Ritcheson. I introduced myself earlier. I'm one of
`
` the attorneys representing a company known as Joao
`
` Control and Monitoring Systems.
`
` Do you understand that?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Okay. I'm going to refer to that entity
`
` as "JCMS" today.
`
` Is that all right with you?
`
` A. That's fine.
`
` Q. Okay. My understanding is that you are
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` a -- an expert that has been retained by Cox
`
` Communications; is that accurate?
`
` A. That's correct.
`
` Q. Were you actually retained by Cox or by a
`
` law firm on behalf of Cox?
`
` A. By a law firm on behalf of Cox.
`
` Q. And what law firm is that?
`
` A. Kilpatrick Townsend & Stockton.
`
` Q. Have you been retained by any other law
`
` firms to act as an expert on behalf of any entity
`
` with respect to a JCMS patent?
`
` A. Yes, I have.
`
` Q. What other entities?
`
` A. Venable and K&L Gates.
`
` Q. And who is or was Venable's client?
`
` A. Theirs was Verizon and some entities
`
` associated with Verizon.
`
` Q. Does Terremark sound familiar?
`
` A. Yeah, Terremark.
`
` Q. And that's T-E-R-R-E-M-A-R-K?
`
` A. I believe so.
`
` Q. And who is or was the K&L client?
`
` A. Time Warner Cable or some entity
`
` affiliated with Time Warner Cable.
`
` Q. Have you heard of a company named Icontrol
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` Networks?
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` A. Yes, I have.
`
` Q. Is that one of the entities that you were
`
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` also --
`
` A. Could be.
`
` Q. Okay. One of the things that -- you've
`
` been deposed before; correct?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. And, in fact, you've been deposed with
`
` respect to some of the JCMS patents before?
`
` A. Yes, I have.
`
` Q. One of the key things I'd like to remind
`
` you of, and it's for our sake, as well as the court
`
` reporter's, make sure we give each other time to
`
` finish our questions and answers before we start
`
` again; okay?
`
` A. That's great.
`
` Q. Okay. Roughly how many times have you
`
` been deposed before?
`
` A. Just the times that -- on the two patents
`
` that I was deposed on relative to JCMS.
`
` Q. Okay. Do you have any -- do you have any
`
` questions about the -- this process that I can
`
` answer for you?
`
` A. No.
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` Q. Okay. During the day today, we're going
`
` to take breaks occasionally, and tomorrow. We'll
`
` take breaks occasionally, but you're not allowed to
`
` speak with counsel about your testimony, either the
`
` testimony you've given or the testimony you expect
`
` to give.
`
` Do you understand that?
`
` MR. RITCHESON: Objection. Form.
`
` THE WITNESS: I wasn't aware of that.
`
` Q. (By Mr. Ritcheson) Okay. If -- in light
`
` of that, will you follow my instruction not to speak
`
` with your counsel about your testimony or would you
`
` like me to inquire about it as we go ahead?
`
` MR. HOLLOWAY: There's no bar. If you
`
` want to ask him questions after the break if we
`
` talked about stuff, you're allowed to do that.
`
` MR. RITCHESON: There is a bar, as you
`
` probably know or you may not know. There is a
`
` bar that prohibits you from speaking with
`
` Mr. Bennett regarding his testimony.
`
` MR. HOLLOWAY: There is a rule that states
`
` if I talk to him while he's on the stand, you
`
` are allowed to ask him about that.
`
` MR. RITCHESON: We'll find the rule for
`
` you.
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` MR. HOLLOWAY: Okay.
`
` Q. (By Mr. Ritcheson) With respect to any
`
` breaks we take, I'll ask you what you said to your
`
` attorneys if you spoke with him; okay? Okay?
`
` A. You're welcome to ask me that.
`
` Q. Now, this isn't your first time acting as
`
` an expert; correct?
`
` A. Correct.
`
` Q. How many times have you acted as an expert
`
` before?
`
` A. I acted as an expert in two previous cases
`
` with Kilpatrick Townsend and I filed expert
`
` declarations, and I've -- yeah, that's it as an
`
` expert. I've worked as a consultant with law firms,
`
` as well.
`
` Q. It's true that you've never testified at a
`
` trial before?
`
` A. That's correct.
`
` Q. Okay. Are you paid hourly for your
`
` services as an expert in this case?
`
` A. Yes, I am.
`
` Q. And how much do you charge for an hour?
`
` A. I don't actually remember the rate for
`
` this case. I think it's 5- to $600 an hour,
`
` something like that.
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` Q. Is that the same amount that was
`
` applicable to the other proceedings that you
`
` mentioned involving the JCMS patents?
`
` A. On JCMS, yes, it's the same rate as the
`
` previous JCMS cases.
`
` Q. We're here today to discuss two IPRs. Do
`
` you understand what I mean by "IPR," inter partes
`
` review?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. So if I say "IPR," you understand what I'm
`
` talking about?
`
` A. Yes, although it's ambiguous.
`
` Intellectual property rights also means IPRs.
`
` Q. Okay. For the purposes of today, let's
`
` have it be inter partes view.
`
` A. Yeah.
`
` Q. There's two IPRs that we're here to talk
`
` about today.
`
` You understand that; correct?
`
` A. Uh-huh (affirmative).
`
` Q. That's a "yes"?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. One of the other rules, by the way, is to
`
` give an actual verbal response so that she knows
`
` what to write down; okay?
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` A. Okay.
`
` Q. You understand that those IPRs relate to
`
` the '130 patent and the '363 patent?
`
` A. Yes, I do.
`
` Q. With respect to those two matters, you
`
` submitted a declaration?
`
` A. Yes, I did.
`
` Q. Two declarations --
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. -- one for each?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Roughly how much time did you spend
`
` preparing those two declarations?
`
` I should ask a foundational question. Did
`
` you prepare those declarations?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. How much time did you spend preparing
`
` those declarations?
`
` A. I think it was roughly on the order of 20
`
` hours.
`
` Q. 20 hours each or 20 hours total?
`
` A. I think probably about 20 hours total. It
`
` could have been more. I'd have to check my records.
`
` Q. And how much time have you spent in --
`
` with respect to the '363 and '130 IPRs?
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` A. About the same.
`
` Q. So you haven't done anything since you did
`
` your declaration?
`
` A. You mean how much time did I spend, say,
`
` preparing for this deposition?
`
` Q. Or anything you've done in the interim
`
` since you completed the declaration.
`
` A. Since I completed those, the only thing
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` I've done is prepared for this deposition, which I
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` did by simply rereading all the exhibits that were
`
` filed.
`
` Q. And how much time did you spend in
`
` preparing for today's deposition?
`
` A. I spent about 10 to 15 hours.
`
` Q. That's total, right, not per IPR?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. When were you actually retained by an
`
` entity with respect to the JCMS patents?
`
` A. With respect to the ones we're dealing
`
` with today?
`
` Q. Yes.
`
` A. That would have been last July.
`
` Q. And who initially retained you last July?
`
` A. I believe it was Mr. Holloway, wasn't it?
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` MR. RITCHESON: What was the question?
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` I'm sorry.
`
` THE WITNESS: Were you the one who
`
` retained me?
`
` MR. HOLLOWAY: My name may have been on
`
` the letter.
`
` THE WITNESS: Yeah, I got an e-mail from
`
` somebody in the -- in the office here.
`
` Q. (By Mr. Ritcheson) And that was on behalf
`
` of Cox Communications; is that correct?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Were you then subsequently retained by the
`
` Venable and K&L firms?
`
` A. That was a previous matter.
`
` Q. That was a previous matter. Okay.
`
` When were you retained by those firms?
`
` A. That was some months prior to being
`
` retained on this matter.
`
` Q. With respect to the declaration that you
`
` provided in this case, did you provide copies of
`
` that, drafts of that, for comment to Venable and
`
` K&L?
`
` MR. HOLLOWAY: Could you read that back?
`
` (Whereupon, the record was read by the
`
` reporter as follows:
`
` Question, "With respect to the
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` declaration that you provided in this case, did
`
` you provide copies of that, drafts of that, for
`
` comment to Venable and K&L?")
`
` THE WITNESS: So you're asking me about
`
` the process and the preparation of my expert
`
` declaration and what sort of communication I
`
` had with the attorney?
`
` Q. (By Mr. Ritcheson) I'm asking you if you
`
` had communication with attorneys at the Venable and
`
` K&L firm with respect to your declarations?
`
` MR. HOLLOWAY: You can answer that "yes"
`
` or "no."
`
` THE WITNESS: Yes.
`
` Q. (By Mr. Ritcheson) Who?
`
` MR. HOLLOWAY: Wait, wait, wait. Just so
`
` we're clear, he's asking about the declarations
`
` in the Cox-only IPRs.
`
` THE WITNESS: Okay.
`
` MR. RITCHESON: Yes.
`
` MR. HOLLOWAY: So I just want to make sure
`
` the question's clear.
`
` Q. (By Mr. Ritcheson) Yes. Do you
`
` understand what I'm getting at?
`
` A. You want to know who I talked to at
`
` Kilpatrick about the --
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` Q. Well, first I want to make sure that any
`
` ambiguity is clarified.
`
` With respect to the declarations that you
`
` submitted in these IPRs that we're here to talk
`
` about today -- you know what, strike that. We've
`
` had these marked, so let's actually --
`
` MR. HOLLOWAY: Let's use numbers or names
`
` for them.
`
` MR. RITCHESON: Exactly. Exactly.
`
` MR. HOLLOWAY: Thank you.
`
` Q. (By Mr. Ritcheson) With respect to -- and
`
` I've got -- I'm sorry it's disorganized, but there's
`
` a pile in front of you that --
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` MR. HOLLOWAY: Is this for me?
`
` MR. RITCHESON: That is for you.
`
` MR. HOLLOWAY: Okay.
`
` MR. RITCHESON: It was arranged hastily.
`
` MR. HOLLOWAY: That's fine. Thank you.
`
` (Patent Owner's Exhibit 2 was marked for
`
` identification.)
`
` Q. (By Mr. Ritcheson) With respect to
`
` Exhibit No. 2, this is a Declaration of Richard
`
` Bennett in Support of Petition for Inter Partes
`
` Review of U.S. Patent No. 6,549,130.
`
` Let me hand this to you and ask you if you
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` recognize that?
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` A. Yes, I do.
`
` Q. Okay. As a matter of convention, we
`
` frequently refer to patents by the last three
`
` numbers.
`
` A. Yes, I'm familiar with that.
`
` Q. So we'll refer to this, okay, as the '130
`
` declaration.
`
` A. That's fine.
`
` Q. Okay. So with respect to Exhibit 2, did
`
` you provide Exhibit 2 in draft form to the attorneys
`
` at Venable or K&L Gates for comment?
`
` A. Yes, I did.
`
` Q. Okay. There's also another declaration
`
` that you provided with respect to the '363 patent.
`
` I don't think we marked that. We might as well take
`
` care of that while we're here.
`
` (Patent Owner's Exhibit 8 was marked for
`
` identification.)
`
` Q. (By Mr. Ritcheson) Exhibit 8 that we've
`
` had marked for identification is the Declaration of
`
` Richard Bennett in Support of Petition for Inter
`
` Partes Review of U.S. Patent No. 7,397,363.
`
` Have you seen this document before?
`
` A. Yes, I have.
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` Q. Okay. And are Exhibit 2 and Exhibit 8,
`
` are those the declarations that you submitted with
`
` respect to the '130 and '363 patents, respectively?
`
` A. They appear to be.
`
` Q. With respect to Exhibit 8, did you provide
`
` drafts of Exhibit 8 to attorneys at Venable and/or
`
` K&L Gates for comment?
`
` A. Yes, I did.
`
` Q. Did you actually receive comments from
`
` Venable and K&L Gates attorneys with respect to
`
` Exhibits 2 and 8?
`
` A. Yes, I did.
`
` Q. And did you incorporate those comments
`
` into the final version of the declaration that you
`
` submitted in this matter?
`
` A. Some I did; some I didn't.
`
` Q. Okay.
`
` MR. HOLLOWAY: I'm going to object to this
`
` entire line because the witness is actually
`
` wrong.
`
` THE WITNESS: Oh.
`
` MR. RITCHESON: Well, I object to your
`
` objection.
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` Q. (By Mr. Ritcheson) With respect to the --
`
` strike that.
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` With respect to the Venable and K&L Gates
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` attorneys, do you remember which attorneys you
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` interacted with with respect to Exhibit 2 and
`
` Exhibit 8?
`
` MR. HOLLOWAY: Objection. Foundation.
`
` THE WITNESS: What's the question?
`
` Q. (By Mr. Ritcheson) Who at K&L Gates
`
` and/or Venable did you --
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` A. K&L Gates and Venable, what does that have
`
` to do with this case?
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` MR. HOLLOWAY: Objection. Foundation.
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` Q. (By Mr. Ritcheson) You can answer my
`
` question.
`
` A. Huh?
`
` Q. You can answer my question.
`
` A. I don't see the relevance of it.
`
` Q. It's all right. You don't have to.
`
` The process, just so you're clear, is I
`
` get to ask questions and you get to answer them.
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` There are certain occasions where your attorney may
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` instruct you not to answer, but at all other times,
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` you're required to answer.
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` A. Oh. So the attorney at K&L Gates is
`
` Jackson Ho and at Venable was Megan Woodworth, I
`
` think it is.
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` Q. Are you aware that there was a petition
`
` for inter partes review that was submitted with your
`
` declaration to the Patent Trial and Appeal Board?
`
` A. Yes, I was.
`
` Q. Did you review that document before it was
`
` submitted?
`
` A. I don't believe I did.
`
` Q. Okay. With respect to the two other
`
` matters -- and this is just foundational -- with
`
` respect to the two other matters that you -- where
`
` you acted as an expert, those were cases in which
`
` you provided expert reports?
`
` MR. HOLLOWAY: Objection. Form.
`
` THE WITNESS: I'm not clear about what
`
` you're asking.
`
` MR. HOLLOWAY: Can I request that we
`
` identify these by IPR number or, at the very
`
` least, petitioner party? Because the witness
`
` is confused as to what you are asking him about
`
` the declaration.
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` MR. RITCHESON: Okay. You don't have to
`
` have a speaking objection. It's clear.
`
` MR. HOLLOWAY: I know, but the record
`
` isn't clear at all. You're using pronouns and
`
` numbers and not identifying the actual IPR
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` number or the petitioners.
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` MR. RITCHESON: With respect to the
`
` declarations, you're wrong. I identified it
`
` exactly by exhibit number. Your objections are
`
` inappropriate. You need to stop.
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` MR. HOLLOWAY: Okay. I'm just objecting
`
` to all of this --
`
` MR. RITCHESON: Okay.
`
` MR. HOLLOWAY: -- because there's no
`
` clarity in what we're talking about.
`
` MR. RITCHESON: That's fine.
`
` Q. (By Mr. Ritcheson) And if I'm unclear at
`
` any point, let me know. I'm not here to trick you
`
` or surprise you or anything; I'm just trying to get
`
` your testimony. Okay? Trust me.
`
` When I was talking about the two other
`
` matters, I'm sorry, I don't know what they're
`
` called. You testified that there were two cases
`
` that you were retained by -- by K&L -- by Kilpatrick
`
` previously --
`
` A. Uh-huh (affirmative).
`
` Q. -- is that correct?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. And those aren't IPRs, were they?
`
` A. One -- well, I worked with Kilpatrick on a
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` previous expert report on JCMS in which I was
`
` deposed by Mr. Joao --
`
` Q. Right. Okay.
`
` A. -- in Washington when -- a month or two
`
` ago.
`
` Q. Okay.
`
` A. And before that, I worked on some other
`
` cases that were for Kilpatrick Townsend clients that
`
` are not relevant to JCMS.
`
` Q. Those were the ones that I was talking
`
` about. What were those cases --
`
` MR. HOLLOWAY: Objection. Form.
`
` Q. (By Mr. Ritcheson) -- that did not have
`
` anything to do with JCMS? I don't know what else to
`
` call them.
`
` MR. HOLLOWAY: Objection. Form.
`
` THE WITNESS: They were about Ethernet
`
` patents.
`
` Q. (By Mr. Ritcheson) And did you submit --
`
` those were two cases?
`
` A. Well, it was -- it was actually -- there
`
` was one case that went through two phases, so -- and
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` the initial -- it was an Ethernet patents case that
`
` dealt with some patents that had originally been
`
` granted to 3Com, to some people that I worked with
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` at 3Com.
`
` And in the initial phase, there was a
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` joint defense group of, oh, at least eight different
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` law firms that had different clients who had been
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` charged by the current patent owner. The patent's
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` current one is -- was about to expire, and so they
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` were trying to extract some license fees from
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` various companies, including clients of Kilpatrick
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` Townsend.
`
` Q. Who was the patent owner?
`
` MR. HOLLOWAY: Objection. Form.
`
` THE WITNESS: I don't recall. I mean, the
`
` patent was originally a 3Com patent and 3Com
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` was acquired by HP. It became an HP patent and
`
` HP sold it to a patent assertion entity --
`
` Q. (By Mr. Ritcheson) Okay.
`
` A. -- who was the -- and -- that had some
`
` obscure name that it's hard for me to remember.
`
` Q. Have you ever had any of your opinions
`
` stricken by a court or other judicial or
`
` quasi-judicial body?
`
` A. No.
`
` Q. Have you ever had your testimony or
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` declarations limited by any court or judicial or
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` quasi-judicial body?
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` A. No.
`
` Q. Have you had any -- other than in this
`
` case, have you had any occasion when a court or a
`
` judicial or quasi-judicial body has found your
`
` testimony to be insufficient?
`
` A. No.
`
` Q. With respect to -- I'd like to talk about
`
` a couple of things having to do with -- let me back
`
` up.
`
` MR. RITCHESON: Let me just for the record
`
` so, Clay, you can maybe mark on your copies,
`
` you know, what we have done with respect to
`
` marking of documents, Exhibit 1 is Notice of
`
` Deposition of Richard Bennett.
`
` (Patent Owner's Exhibit 1 was marked for
`
` identification.)
`
` Q. (By Mr. Ritcheson) Have you seen this
`
` document before?
`
` A. Yes, I have.
`
` Q. What do you understand that document to
`
` be?
`
` A. Huh?
`
` Q. What do you understand that document to
`
` be?
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` A. It's a notice that the deposition -- wait
`
` a minute. At the top, it says "Notice of Deposition
`
` of Scott Andrews," so I'm a bit confused.
`
` No, I haven't seen this before.
`
` Q. Okay. Let me look.
`
` The cover page reads "Notice of Deposition
`
` of Richard Bennett." In the body of it, it says
`
` that "patent owner, by and through its attorneys,
`
` will conduct cross-examination by deposition of
`
` Richard Bennett..."; correct?
`
` A. That's what it says.
`
` Q. And you're Richard Bennett?
`
` A. Yes, I am.
`
` Q. Do you understand this -- notwithstanding
`
` a -- apparently a typographical error that appears
`
` at the very top of the second page, you understand
`
` this to be the notice of deposition that required
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` you to come here and appear today?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Okay. With respect to Exhibit 2, we've
`
` previously identified that as the declaration you
`
` submitted in the '130 IPR; correct?
`
` A. Correct.
`
` MR. HOLLOWAY: Objection. Form. It's
`
` a -- can we not call it the '130 IPR? Let's
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` call it by its IPR number or the '130 patent in
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` IPR number blank, because he has another '130
`
` IPR declaration, which is the source of all of
`
` this confusion.
`
` MR. RITCHESON: I don't think anybody's
`
` confused.
`
` MR. HOLLOWAY: Okay.
`
` (Patent Owner's Exhibit 3 was marked for
`
` identification.)
`
` Q. (By Mr. Ritcheson) With respect to
`
` Exhibit No. 3, have you seen this document before?
`
` MR. HOLLOWAY: Which one's Exhibit 3?
`
` THE WITNESS: It's the --
`
` MR. HOLLOWAY: I got it.
`
` THE WITNESS: What is this? The initial
`
` application? Is that what this is?
`
` Yes. Yeah. This is an application, a
`
` patent disclosure, for -- that was the --
`
` apparently the initial document that became the
`
` '130 patent, but unlike the actual '130 patent,
`
` the initial disclosure related solely to a
`
` vehicle monitoring system, and I believe what I
`
` have here is the initial filing.
`
` Q. (By Mr. Ritcheson) Okay. And this is the
`
` filing dated -- am I reading this correctly on the
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` front page -- March 27, 1996?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Okay. And in your declaration, you state
`
` that you believe that there is no disclosure of
`
` premises control in this application; is that
`
` accurate?
`
` A. That's correct.
`
` Q. Okay. With respect to Exhibit No. 3, is
`
` it true that there is disclosure of the remote
`
` access by a -- an owner, there's remote access to a
`
` central office computer?
`
` MR. HOLLOWAY: Objection. Form.
`
` THE WITNESS: "Central office computer,"
`
` I'm not sure what that means.
`
` Q. (By Mr. Ritcheson) A computer at the --
`
` let's call it the central security office.
`
` A. As I recall, this disclosure primarily
`
` deals with systems that are inside a motor vehicle
`
` or a vehicle that relate to a server computer that
`
` hosts the website. Figure 5B shows a website.
`
` Q. Just for clarification, there are a couple
`
` of numbers that appear. Let's use the -- you see at
`
` the very bottom of the page, it says, "Petitioner
`
` Coxcom, LLC - Exhibit 1004," and I think it says
`
` "page 8"?
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` Do you see that?
`
` A. Yes, I do.
`
` Q. Let's use that number, because later on
`
` there's other numbers on pages. Let's use that
`
` number.
`
` So on page 8 at 5B, you said?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Okay. With respect to the disclosures in
`
` Exhibit 3, is this a three-control device system?
`
` MR. HOLLOWAY: Objection. Form.
`
` THE WITNESS: Is this a three-device
`
` system?
`
` Q. (By Mr. Ritcheson) Three-control device.
`
` A. Three-control device.
`
` MR. HOLLOWAY: Same objection.
`
` THE WITNESS: I'm not really sure how to
`
` answer that, because it -- primarily, it -- it
`
` appears that there are two control device.
`
` There's a control device, a sensing -- there's
`
` sensing that takes place in the vehicle and
`
` reporting to this website through a
`
` communication mechanism, and I think the
`
` communication mechanism is said to include a
`
` communication processor that facilitates
`
` communication between the vehicle system and
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`JCMS - EXHIBIT 2005
`CoxCom, LLC v. JCMS
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`Page 28
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` the website.
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` So like -- essentially, any process
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` control system that involves a controller and a
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` control device that are sep