CROSSROADS EXHIBIT 2302
`Oracle Corp., et al v. Crossroads Systems, Inc.
` IPR2014-01207 and IPR2014-1209
`
`
`1 of 30
`
`CROSSROADS EXHIBIT
`Oracle Corp. v. Crossroads Systems, Inc.
`IPR2015-0(cid:1005)(cid:1004)(cid:1010)(cid:1010)
`
`2302
`
`

`
`Coop; bocsc
`
`taken 5119091: 5. 2001
`
`J
`
`IN THE UNITED STATES DIST|t1L'I' COURT
`run we wesienn oxsnucr or TEXAS
`AUSTIN Drvl SIDN
`
`(R055510405 SYSTEMS
`E‘!EXAS) .
`INC .
`V.
`
`CFLQFARKAL NETWORK STORAGE,
`mc._ A IJHAWARE conpauixon
`
`Civil Action no.
`
`A’U0CA’217‘55
`
`30(b)(6) onAL Dr.POS1'r:IoM or
`GEOFF ROSS?
`
`August 6. 2001
`
`mm. DEPOSITION DF GEOFF Hesse. nrodoced
`as a witness at the instance of the Defendant and duh,-
`swnrn, was taken in the above styied and numbered cause
`on the 6th day of August. 2001.
`from 1:13 p.nn.
`to 4:15
`p.u.. before Sandra 5. Givens, 1:511.
`in and for Chi
`Slate of Texas. reported by Inac!11nt- shorthand method.
`an the offices. of ranbrighl 5 Janorsii, 6-D0 congress
`Avenue. 1900 one anerican center. kvsliri. ‘I’:-as 18101.
`pursuant to the seztern nuies of civfl rrocemwe.
`
`APPEARANCES
`
`FOR THE PLAI HT] FF :
`
`A1an D A1br1'ght
`Gray. Cary. ware 5. Freidenrich, LLP
`1221 5. MOP-"in Expressway
`Suite 600
`Austi n. Texas
`
`7‘B?46
`
`pop; 1-HE Epgumuf;
`
`V
`David D. Bashlcr
`Fuihrfght & Jaworski, LLP
`1900 one American center
`E500 Congress Avenue
`Austin. Texas
`73701
`
`3-an-act-.na»w~t-I
`
`I-"I-3
`
`hDfl'~JUIuIa-we-an
`
`INDEX
`
`2
`-
`-
`—
`-
`- - - - v v — — — — -
`-
`Appearances - - - - -
`exhibits - - - - ---- -
`-
`- - - - - - - - ----3
`GEOFF IQESE
`1
`— -
`— -
`— -
`-
`-
`— - — -
`Examination by Mr‘. B-ah'ler
`G3
`-
`-
`A
`fhanges and Signature -
`- - - - — - - - — - —
`R
`'crt'f" -
`-
`- — -
`- — -
`- ---—-2'0
`Epwtflr 5
`E
`1 "'“‘°"
`
`E x H I 5 I ‘r s
`
`UESCIIIFT EON
`Notice of Deposition
`u.s. Patent No. 5,941,972
`Abstract of Provisional Router
`
`I-3-*rn“|
`
`czorrnosss.
`having been first duly sworn, testified as hfl‘Iows:
`EXAIINATIDN
`(Exhibit Nos. 22. 23, and 2-1 marked.)
`
`HY MR. RAHlF|1!
`
`Guud Jnornitlg. Hr. Hnesu.
`Q
`Good morning.
`A
`Let no hand you what‘: been marked as Hoese
`(1
`Exhibit 22. Before I do that Tet Ive just 351! you.
`IN!
`you the Geoffrey noun that‘: named as an inventor an
`the patent
`in this case?
`A
`‘(El .
`
`Mid you're the sane Geoffrey Hoese that‘: been
`Q
`deposed before?
`A
`V95.
`'1
`no you st-i'll ‘live in the same p'|ace?
`V25,
`I do.
`A
`(1
`511 right.
`A
`flu.
`
`the same age?
`
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`0
`l\.ID-
`sli'l1 over 18?
`n.-NI
`A
`sn"|T over 18.
`Do) 1...
`Q
`Take a ‘look at Exhibit 22. That is a may of
`anin Chaparral’; Third notice of Deposition under fl.u'|e
`nu uv
`3D(b)(6) to crossroads.
`the p'|aintiff in this (asp, end
`
`_u,,,,.,.o-;..a.¢a..M.,.
`
`.. _,
`
`Cwcns COUPJC Repamng
`
`512) 301-7088
`
`Hllagcs I to 1})
`
`CONFIDENTIAL
`
`ATTORNEY'S EYES ONLY
`
`2of30
`2 of 30
`
`CRDS 55684
`
`

`
`Coup; hoes:
`
`‘C-ahcn Nxgmr 6'. 2001
`
`Dan: 7
`I have not billed crossroads for my time as of
`
`A
`this day.
`Do you have an apreernenl. Uun; you're going to
`Q
`till then?
`no,
`A
`Not specifically.
`Q
`Do you have .1 personal understanding that
`you're going to he paid?
`A
`I'VE considered it and may well do so.
`Q
`Have you 1:: then know that?
`A
`I've mentioned the possibility.
`Q
`And uhat was their respnnse?
`in
`Her response?
`I}
`well. her or their.
`lion about that.
`A
`‘they seemed open to the oossibiiity. and it
`was just not a topic for further discussion.
`:1
`okay.
`on you have any sort of financial
`arrangement between Crossroads and yourself regarding
`your testimony here today?
`A
`Not specifically. No.
`Q
`Generally?
`A
`according ny uzstinony here. M.
`Q
`utu tale 1. look It cxhibit 24.
`me what that is?
`A
`It's a document I wrote describing the
`
`llhat was its response?
`
`can you tell
`
`D-xrr ll
`
`that’: fine.
`way did you prepare
`okay-
`
`characteristics of the 972 patent at the initial
`conception.
`in
`Is that your handwriting on the front?
`A
`on the fax cover page‘!
`Q
`ves. sir.
`A
`Yes, it is.
`Me. ALNIIGITF: And let me just out down
`on the record it's my handwriting on the three pages
`where it says "ntornsys’ eyes on'|y.“ since we produced
`‘it.
`I mean, I just --
`an. anutea;
`{BY Mr. oahler)
`1}
`this document?
`A
`I prepared this document because 1 had a
`concept and an invention that I felt was worth
`pursuing. and so I prepared this ducunent to initiate
`the patent filing.
`q
`okay. And this document was prepared when?
`can you tell froa ‘looking at it?
`A
`Beth-‘can March 22nd and May 15th. prior to May
`15th. 199?.
`And then this was sent to
`q
`all right.
`Mr. Anthony reteman on May 23th, 1991?
`A
`I believe so.
`‘res.
`That's what’: indicated
`by the cover sheet. and that makes sense.
`
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`it‘; our understanding you have been designated to
`speak on behalf of Crossroads about topics 5 and 6.
`that Yllur understanding?
`o
`Yeah.
`
`Is
`
`MR. Atonlmt: These two .
`Yeah.
`THE wxmcss: Yes. That is my
`
`understanding.
`I:
`(By Mr. aah1er) Are you prepared to do so
`today?
`‘res.
`I ill-
`A
`what did you do to prepare for your
`Q
`deposition?
`A
`arieny net with my counsel before this
`
`YES .
`
`deposition. That‘: lab-oust it.
`Q
`Did you look at any documents?
`A
`I believe I looked at this one document.
`:3
`which has been previously marked as
`Exhibit 24?
`A
`No. Exhibit 21!. paragraph 5.
`oh.
`that notice. Dkay. Exhibit 22.
`1 ‘looked at Suction S of 22.
`And 5?
`I dish‘! ‘tool: ac 6 until now.
`Actually. no.
`But you're the 6 guy?
`HR. ALBRIGH1: Yeah. He's the 6 guy.
`
`Q A
`
`Q
`
`A Q
`
`D-not 5
`
`I know.
`(By Mr. aahler) All right.
`:1
`Mr. Hliese, that when we ‘last soot: you berg gqflnygfl by
`Crossroads .
`Is that sun the case?
`1 don't believe that has correct when we 1ast
`A
`snake.
`in
`
`Are you employed by Crossroads today’!
`No. I'M not.
`when did you ‘leave crossroads?
`In October of 2000.
`okay.
`Do you have a job right now?
`an.
`3 do not.
`what do you do for A ‘living?
`I do some different consulting kind of
`A
`arrangements with different firms where I have an
`advisory rifle in a cDup'le different companies of a very
`1uo5e nature.
`in
`Do you perform any consulting or advising for
`Crossroads?
`A
`I've been invo1ved with things relating ‘[0
`this trial.
`q
`no you have a consultancy arrangement with
`crossroarfs for this trial?
`A
`No. Not specifically. No.
`Q
`Are you being compensated for your time here
`today?
`
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`Givens Count." Rcpmtcmg
`
`{SIZI 301-7088
`
`CONFIDENTIAL
`
`ATTORNEY'S EYES ONLY
`
`3of30
`3 of 30
`
`CRDS
`
`66685
`
`

`
`Ccon: hocac
`
`taken August: 6, 2001
`
`Ilagc H
`That was the date that I documented that I had
`A
`the ideas that assembled to cover the materia1
`presented here.
`Q
`okay. You documented something on March 22nd,
`1997?
`I‘n not sure what documented -- what do you
`A
`mean by "documented"?
`Q
`He1T.
`in that answer you said "that's the date
`that I documented." and then you mentioned something
`that you documented.
`A
`T documented that date as the date that I had
`the concept.
`0
`how did you arrive at that date?
`A
`That was the day that the idea in whole as
`presented occurred to me.
`Q
`0&3!-
`How is it that you picked v— how is it
`that on May 15th or perhaps as 1ate as Hay 28th you
`remembered soecificaliy that flay 22nd. 1997 was the
`date of conception?
`A
`The date wasn't May 22nd as you just stated.
`It was March 22nd.
`Q
`H21}. May 15th -- weii. you did the first
`draft flay 15th, and then I don't know when this May or
`March 22nd of 1997 date was added. but it was added
`certain1y no later than May lath, 1997.
`So the
`
`lhrr '2
`question is. what made you decide or hhat made you
`recall Either on May 15th,
`'97 or on May 28th,
`'97 that
`Narch 22nd,
`‘B? was thi date of contention?
`(At this time the proceedings were
`interrupted by a tc1cphone ca11.)
`Mk. ALBRIGHT: Can I take this real
`
`quick?
`
`sure.
`MR. BA.HI.ER.'
`(At this time the proceedings went
`monenIari1y off the record.)
`HR. BAHLER: Last nuestion. oiease.
`(The referenced portion was read back by
`the court reporter.)
`the time the nateria1
`IHE WITNESS: At
`was very fresh in my mind,
`It was active1y the
`materia1 I was working on.
`I suspect. aithough I don't
`soecificaliy retail.
`that I had documented it in notes
`and draft drawings and documents that I had used. but I
`don't specifica11y re(ai1.
`Q
`(By Mr. Eahier) Okay.
`notes and drawings did you make?
`A
`I don‘: specifically re(a11.
`Q
`okay.
`If those notes and drawings were not
`produced to us in this case.
`then they an 1on9=r exist.
`correct?
`
`Do you -- what sort of
`
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`was this document communicated to anybody
`q
`prior to that date?
`A
`I don't specificaliy reca11.
`Q
`A11 right.
`So as far as you recali. the first
`time that this information included in Exhibit 24 was
`communicated to anybody was my 28.. 139??
`A
`I believe it would be prior to that.
`Q
`Okay.
`A
`I wou1d expect that I reviewed it with my
`co-inventor on the patent,
`things of that sort.
`o
`other than Mr. nusse11. anybody else?
`A
`I don't 5pIcifita1iy recail.
`It's possibie.
`I way very possibiy have shown it to Brian Smith.
`1]
`Okay.
`A
`I'm certain I did at some point prior to
`attualiy faxing it.
`u
`what I'll asking for is specific recoflection
`of any communication to anybody other than Mr. Peterman
`lilufore May 25th, 1997.
`A
`I don't specif1'ca'l'|y recall that. No.
`the very
`Q
`Now. on the Iast page at
`the bottom,
`bottom 1ine. it says "Concept by Geoff Hoese, Earth 22.
`1997." and it continues "First draft, May 15th, 1997.”
`And then as we've already discussed, you faxed this to
`Mr. Peterman on May 28th, 1997. right?
`
`A q
`
`A
`
`That appears to be correct.
`Pardon me?
`That appe3F5 to be correct.
`okay.
`Now. I'd like to ask you some questions
`a
`about that. This says "First draft, May 15th, 1997'."
`Hhat does that mean?
`A
`I would believe that's when I took my notes
`and treated this partituiar word document that this was
`generated from.
`so this Ivouid be when I first started
`putting this into word to create this specific
`document.
`Do you have those notes?
`okay.
`q
`I don't recail if I have then or not.
`k
`If you had them.
`they would have been produced
`Q
`in this case. correct?
`A
`Actually.
`that wouid ciarify my answer of. I
`most certainly don't have then.
`The attorneys may have
`them in the fi'|es they might have toilected.
`I don't
`know -if they were there or not.
`1)
`Okay.
`Amt if they weren't produced.
`don't any ‘longer exist?
`veah.
`A
`That wnuid be my be1ief.
`Q
`And then in that iinc aisu. is we've just
`discussed, it taiks about "(ohcept by Geoffrey Hoese.
`March 22nd, 1997.“ Hhat dbcs that mean?
`
`they
`
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`Cwcns COLIRE RLPORUDQ
`
`(512) 301-7083
`
`3 [pages 9 1110 I2}
`
`CONFIDENTIAL
`
`ATTORNE‘.E"S EYES ONLY
`
`40f30
`4 of 30
`
`CRDS 66686
`
`

`
`Coop}: hocac
`
`Cflmn i\u'guet: 6. 2001
`
`])nr,tl3
`
`I would assume so. Yes.
`A
`okay. Did you communicate to anybody this
`Q
`conclption that you had of the invention on March
`22nd,
`'97?
`A
`I don't recall.
`I:
`okay.
`aetwnen March 22nd '97 and May
`Zach,
`'9? did you communicate with anybody your ideas
`other than Mr. eussell?
`A
`I most certainly -- I don't specifically
`recall a conversation as such. but I most certainly
`would have discussed it with Mr. smith.
`0
`Do you have any documentation of that
`disclosure?
`A
`Not to my knowledge.
`0
`okay.
`A
`there may be document —- to further answer
`that.
`the attorney.
`the approval to use the attorney
`and spend the money associated with that was connected
`to that.
`so there may be documentation.
`I don't know
`that's -- but I don't specifically have knowledge
`of it.
`other than Hr. Peterraan did you Show
`Okay.
`Q
`this document or this concept to anybody outside of
`Crossroads?
`A
`I would helieve Bill Hulsey.
`
`Do you have a specific recollection of
`
`Perri‘!
`okay. He's also one of crossroads‘ lawyers?
`q
`he was at
`the time an outside attorney for
`A
`patent. work.
`the concept to Mr. Hulsey?
`q
`when did you reveal
`A
`sometime prior to the -- probably prior to May
`15th.
`Okay.
`Q
`that fact?
`A
`I recall discussing the material of the
`disclosure with him prior -- and the process of
`determining what it is that I should create in terms of
`there being 1 document of this sort and what material
`I should incorporate.
`so I don't specifically recall.
`you know. when that was.
`Q
`Okay. Did you have documents with you during
`your discussions with Mr. Ilulsey?
`possibly.
`A
`Dan‘: specifically recall.
`Ii’ you had such
`u
`okay. Let me ask you this.
`documents. why did you create a new document. which is
`Exhi hi t 14?
`
`not
`
`MR. atantcm: objection. Assumes facts
`in evidence. You can answer.
`THE WITNESS:
`can you repeat the
`
`question or --
`Q
`(By Ilr. Bahler)
`
`If you had documents showing
`
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`conception of your invention that you discussed with
`Mr. Hulsey.
`then why did you create the CiDCulIEI'l( that
`has been marked as Exhibit 24?
`I probably
`A
`If I had existing documents.
`desired to increase the clarity and the focus.
`Q
`okay.
`Do you specifically recall having such
`documents?
`A
`I recall having some drawings that I'd done.
`and sketches.
`I don't know if that fits what you’re
`calling documents or whatnot. but --
`Q
`well, I'm just trying to figure out what
`existed prior to this Exhibit 24. and specifically what.
`documents existed prior to thl existence of Exhibit 24.
`A
`Relating. I presume. to the conception --
`ll
`yes.
`A
`-- of till document?
`1:
`Exactly.
`A
`so. I'm sorry,
`document?
`Yes.
`Q
`There were a body of documents relating to the
`A
`Verraaano project describing characteristics of storage
`routers. at Ceiera. There almost certainly were
`sketches on white board and things of that sort. That
`was tonanon practice.
`specifically relating to the
`
`is that a question as to what
`
`f_l.|.g' H5
`conception. I don't recall what documents there might
`have been other than that.
`Cl
`okay.
`After‘ you sent this far to
`Anthony Peternnn on Hay 23th. 1557' what else did you do
`with respect to the prevention of the patent
`application for the 932 patent? Iuhat did you do mutt?
`Put it that way.
`A
`In general. I worked with nu-, Peternarl to
`further describe the characteristics to him so that he
`could prepare the patent.
`I don't really specifically
`recall those events.
`Q
`Did you provide him additional documents?
`A
`Very likely.
`:1
`which ones? what documents?
`A
`I don't recall.
`(1
`Okay. Did Mr. Peternan provide you with a
`draft patent application?
`A
`Eventually. yes. he did.
`(1
`Do you know have long that look?
`A
`Hut specifically.
`(1
`After you got the -- whenever it was when you
`got it v- well. strike that.
`You do recall getting a
`draft patent application. correct?
`A
`I believe so.
`‘its.
`0
`sometime before the thing was filed December
`
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`Cwena COURC Rcpoermg
`
`(512) 301-7033
`
`1} ipogcs 13 ‘CD I6)
`
`CONFIDENTIAL
`
`A'1'TORNEY'S EYES ONLY
`
`50f3O
`5 of 30
`
`CRDS 66687
`
`

`
`C,'cofi: bocec
`
`Cohen August 6. 2001
`
`Dagc I?
`
`See that?
`storage."
`A
`was.
`Q
`ultay. Did you and Mr. Pctorman discuss what
`"access controls‘ meant?
`A
`I don't Sntcifically recall that discussion.
`It‘: orobahly reasonable to assume at some point we
`did.
`
`Okay. Do you know when those discussions
`1:
`occurred?
`A
`not specifically. No.
`I:
`were they documented?
`A
`I don't recall that they were or nut.
`11
`Then the next sentence says. "Methods are
`provided that allow for configuration and modification
`of the storage allocated to each workstation attached.‘
`see that?
`A
`lJh~huh.
`Q
`Are those methods disclosed in this document.
`Exhibit 24?
`A
`I'm not sure.
`can
`0
`okay. well, it's only two pages. right?
`you find for re within this document any methods or any
`disclosure of any methods that allow for configuration
`and modification of the storage allotted to each
`workstation attached?
`
`Dogs 20
`I would say that there are implicit methods in
`A
`that the storage is described as being segmented and
`configured. The implementation methods are left open.
`Q
`okay. why were they ieft open?
`A
`I would say that there are a variety of
`methods within the context mentioned that could be used
`so that it was not pertinent to the invention itself.
`0
`so once --
`A
`But that's. you know. that‘: -- I don't really
`specifically recall.
`0
`so, and you were referring a second ago to the
`allocation of storage.
`I'm not sure if I used the
`right word. but you were referring to drawing 3 on the
`last page of Exhibit 24, correct?
`A
`well.
`I was referring in tutu to the
`demonstration through the document that the storage, as
`described in Figure 3. is configured and modified as a
`contrast of Figures 1 and 2.
`Q
`okay.
`you mentioned "configured." and by
`configured with reference to Figure 3 in Exhibit 24.
`you mean the drawing or the depiction of the storage
`device on the right—hand side that shows global data,
`and it shows a storage device on the right-hand side
`that has partitioning for workstation 1, workstation 2.
`workstation 3. workstation -I; and then you've got the
`
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`'91, right?
`1 assume that was the date. but I did get a
`
`.’-1st
`
`A
`draft.
`
`Did you get one draft or many drafts or what,
`Q
`do you recall’.-'
`A
`I don't specifically recall.
`Q
`okay. well. you got at least one, right?
`A
`Yes.
`Irtlmt aid you do with that draft?
`a
`okay.
`A
`1 rqviewad it as well as providing it to
`. Russell for review.
`Q
`okay.
`oid anybody else within crossroads
`review it?
`A
`I don't recall.
`Q
`okay. And after you reviewed it not aid you
`
`do?
`
`Again, I don‘: specifically recall, but I do
`A
`recall that there was generally a draft review cycle
`and submitting changes and cum-mications with
`HI‘. Peterhan on changes to it.
`Q
`no you recall when that review tool: place?
`No.
`
`A
`
`Did you in any way document that review?
`11'; possible that. you know. that it might
`have been noted in my notes.
`1 don't specifically
`
`A Q
`
`recall documenting it.
`Q
`Oltay. Did you lteep the draft?
`A
`I don't recall.
`I}
`If you had kept it. where would you have kept
`
`it?
`
`It would be in the files that were submitted
`A
`for the --
`1:
`Okay.
`A
`It would have been in my files.
`Q
`So if you kept that draft. your lawyers would
`have given it to us?
`A
`1 fully elpect they would have.
`Let's take :1 look at Exhibit 24.
`o
`All right.
`This is 2-1?
`A
`(Nods head.)
`on the second
`1:
`Let's go baclt to Exhibit 24.
`page of that exhibit -- there's only three pages,
`correct?
`that‘; correct.
`Including cover,
`5
`the last paragraph in the section called
`:1
`'Abstrnct' there's a sentence that says -- it's the
`second sentence -— that says. "Access controls and
`routing are implenented such that each workstation has
`access to a specific subset of the data store, which
`has the appearance and characteristics of local
`
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`CONFIDENTIAL
`
`ATTORNEY'S EYES ONLY
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`Coop; hoes:
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`
`T3¢nc 23
`method for modification of the storage aiiotated?
`A
`Again, 1 would say that that's implicit in the
`SLUFKEIE l'0UIE|'.
`4;:
`Okay.
`A
`vee
`
`shown in Figure 3. right?
`
`Okay.
`0
`Am! how -- what in Figure 3 shows
`modification of the aiiocated storage?
`A
`the statement that methods are provided that
`allow for configuration and modification of the storage
`ailncated to each workstation attached.
`0
`okay.
`and in your mind that‘: al1 that‘:
`necessary to show the ahilitv to modify?
`A
`Yeah.
`Nothing more?
`Q
`okay.
`Nothing more.
`A
`In the context. abso1utt1y.
`u
`now, in Figure 3 there are shown five
`_ workstations. correct?
`A
`Yes.
`
`And there are shown three storage devices,
`
`Q
`correct?
`whether those are three storage devices or
`A
`what couid be subject to question. but 1'1? a11ow that.
`0
`we11. they're storage devices. correct?
`A
`there are three storage e1ements shown.
`whether
`is subdivided into four storage eienents
`
`one
`
`neadfing the text, it's provided in the storage
`
`those are individual devices --
`(1
`Okay.
`A
`-- is a matter of the perspective. and that's.
`you know,
`that kind of relates. I thinlt,
`in part to the
`characteristics of the invention as to what perspective
`they're being ioaked at, but --
`Q
`A'l‘| right. where's the method for modifying
`that storage in that view?
`A
`It's --
`Q
`Modifying the storage a'|'|ocat'ion in that.
`figure.
`A
`router.
`!)
`router?
`A
`provided.
`okay.
`Q
`‘n|e'|'|.
`the uni)! thing that‘; connected
`that can modify in this figure are the workstations.
`correct?
`
`Okay. Modification is provided in the storage
`
`The caoahiiity to modify and configure is
`
`MR. ALBRIGHY:
`
`could you read that back,
`
`phase‘?
`
`[The referenced portion was read back by
`the court reporter.)
`rm: WITNESS: The purpose of the drawing
`
`Soon‘-inv--w~r-A
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`bottom storage device is dedicated to workstation L
`That's what you nean by "configured." right?
`A
`I was generica'|1y a'|'|uding to the fact that
`mu'|tip'|e configurations of data or n|u'|tip1e
`configurations are demonstrated in that drawing.
`0
`okay. And that‘; uhat you meant by
`"configuration"?
`I wouldn't nail
`A
`No.
`that‘: too generic.
`it down that much.
`I'M just giobally commenting that
`in order to have a demonstrated configuration you’d
`have to have —— it fo11nws that there is a
`configuration method. That’s the on'|y comment I was
`rea'|1y making.
`so back to the sentence that has on
`Q
`Okay.
`the second nage of Exhibit 24. it says. “Methods
`are provided that a'I'|ow for configuration and
`modification."
`one such method for configuration. at
`least,
`is i'l'|ustrated in Figure 3. right?
`A
`one such method -- I'm sorry.
`I didn't fo'|'lou
`your question there.
`:1
`Let me back up and ask the fundamental
`the
`question again. This sentence on the second page.
`last sentence of the third paragraph on the second page
`of Exhibit 2! says. "Methods are provided that alimu
`For configuration and modification of the storage
`
`Dog: 22
`
`okay?
`
`a1'|ocated to each workstation attached.’
`A
`okay.
`Q
`My question to you is. first part. -here is
`the neLhud in this document that is provided that
`a'I'|oIns for a configuration of that storage?
`A
`I would suggest that the method is defined in
`the storage router as drawn. out that's an open
`ouustinn.
`lt's -- it's impiieit in the drawing and in
`the text that
`there is such a method.
`The specific
`method. whether that's. you know. some given
`iwp1enentatinn. isn't described here that I can see.
`I]
`why isn't it described?
`A
`I don't specificaliy recaI'| any reason to
`describe it or to not describe it when I produced the
`document.
`Is the method of configuration
`okay.
`Q
`important to your invention?
`A
`You know. that‘: kind of a question that gets
`into —- tiearly. at
`the time I probabiy didn't think
`that it was. and I wouid probably hold that opinion;
`but that requires a ‘Ievc'l of anaiysis and thought that
`I'm rea'|'|y not prepared to give right now.
`it
`'Ihis sentence also says. "Methods are provided
`that a1'|on ‘For nodification of the storage ailocation."
`where in this document is there disciosure of the
`
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`5 iDages '2! to 211}
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`CONFIDENTIAL
`
`A'I'TORNEY'S EYES ONLY
`
`70f3O
`7 of 30
`
`CRDS 66689
`
`

`
`C,'co;:[: ho-toe
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`Cohen August: 6. 200i
`
`Q A
`
`any .
`And I'll confused. if I may interject.
`SUPQ.
`Q
`My understanding. again referring back to
`A
`number‘ 5 here. was that these were corporate
`norspettive of date of invention. vet. you're
`questioning me on eimnents of invention. This is .31!
`prior unateriai
`that we've covered in other depositions.
`so rm concerned that VlI're repeating
`ground as we1‘| as. you know. going off on tangents that
`we've aiready been through, and I ruiiy dcm‘t feel
`reai eoanfnrtebie with that.
`Q
`He'll. Mr. Hoese, when you were deposed before
`no didn't have this exhibit 24. and every question I've
`asked you has been about Exhibit 24. A11 right?
`nee witness:
`Is that correct?
`HR. ALRRIGH: Every ouestion he's asked
`you I think has been about that mcumnt.
`o
`(By Mr. Gahier)
`now.
`take a icon at
`Exhibit 23 --
`
`I'm sorry. ut if
`HR. ALB|i.Il'.H'|':
`there's something you fee1 iilse you need to add to make
`your answers conoitte that goes outside of that.
`than
`you certainly need to add that in.
`Q
`(By Mr. aahler) Ail right?
`
`flap: 21!
`
`Okay.
`now. referring to Exhibit. 23. which is a copy
`u
`of your patient. Figure 3. just to lay the predicate
`again.
`that is I ifloch diagran of one embodiment of
`your invention. correct?
`A
`Correct.
`Q
`and shown in that figure are workstations,
`right?
`A
`
`correct.
`
`I:
`A
`
`And shown are storage drvitus. correct?
`correct.
`
`Md also storage routers are shown there,
`
`I:
`right?
`curred.
`A
`and a‘|1 three of those things are use shown
`q
`3 of Exhibit 2%. right?
`in Figurfl
`A
`Correct.
`Q
`okay. A150 shown in Figure 3 of Exhibit 23,
`VINE?!
`‘IS your patent. is something tailed a "management
`station.’
`no you see that?
`A
`Correct.
`C!
`Now. that‘: not shown in Figure 3 of
`Exhibit 24, is it?
`.1
`That's correct.
`Q
`tmm did you conceive of the nanagv.-sent
`
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`ts modification of the
`(By m-. aanier)
`storage.
`is that important for your
`
`Dog:-25
`isn't to address the modification and configuration.
`the purpose of UN: drawing, 1 think. is to short the
`connectivity from ‘(hat perspective.
`So we're showing
`the workstations are Lulmucted that's described in the
`ception.
`Q
`a‘l'Io€Ited
`invention?
`‘('95.
`A
`iha ability to do so.
`I:
`And how uouid that be done with reference to
`Figure 3?
`1:
`It’! -- I don‘: lmou that the Figure 3 -shows
`nr describes how that
`is done.
`Q
`okay.
`Is thorn any disclosure of how that
`would he done within this Exhibit 24?
`A
`1 don't know of one. but it room he done over
`the interconnects shown.
`It co-u'|d be done through
`auothtr interconnect.
`q
`It (ou'id he done over the interconnects shown
`to the workstations. correct?
`reah.
`A
`Hypotheticaiiy possibie.
`(1
`so as conceived. your invention cor-tenolated
`that lnod1'f1'(at1'on of the storage a'I'located couid be by
`the individual uurkstalions. right?
`I-Iii. ALSMGHT .-
`obj ectinn.
`
`D-‘tr 25
`
`nischaracterizes his testimony.
`THE WITNESS?
`Your question -— can you
`read that back. to me. piease?
`{the referenced portion was read had: by
`the court reporter.)
`res. AS conceived. that‘:
`11-IE HITNESS:
`cm: of the Methods that could be used for
`configuration.
`and in ‘Fact. referring to
`:1
`{By Ml‘. Bahler)
`Figure 3. it's the oniy method shown. correct?
`A
`I don‘t think that's a fair characterization,
`as the tut refers to -uitipie nethods. other
`document: orobahiy refer to other methods of
`communicating nith the storage router.
`so in the
`content of :11 the -- of a storage router and the
`definitions that are around that, I would agree with
`that.
`all right.
`Q
`let's take a ‘look at Ilhibit 23.
`and
`which is a copy In!‘ your Intuit. the 972 patent.
`Figure 1. which is -- actually.
`this is Figure 3 on the
`very face.
`that‘: a drawing of your invention,
`correct. conceutuai drawing. block diagram of your
`irwention, right. Figure 3'!
`A
`That is one such bios): diagram. That's
`correct.
`
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`
`7 iilxgcs 25 to 2Bi
`
`CONFIDENT IAL
`
`ATTORNEY ' S EYES ONLY
`
`8of30
`8 of 30
`
`CRDS 66690
`
`

`
`C,'co[:|: hocac
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`'Ca.l1r.r1 August 5, 2001
`
`Du! 3|
`
`I, don't recall that there is.
`okay. would tables have been an obvious way
`
`Q
`to do it?
`A
`I don't know that I‘d use the word "obvious."
`They may have been -— 1 can conjecture they give it the
`context of the state of the projects er-gr-ino at that
`point in time.
`the stated definitions.
`that may have
`been a natural way to ‘implement things or to design
`things. but I don‘: specifically recall.
`(1
`Hall. where in this document, Exhibit 24, does
`it say that access controls are implemented in the
`storage motor? Oh. he-I2!‘ Il'lfl£l-
`I’Ve qul it.
`I
`withdraw that.
`
`.ItFter you created this document.
`Okay.
`exhibit 24. Hr. uoese. did you create any other
`'97 that
`documents subsequent to this date of May 23th.
`further and more completely described access control?
`A
`I don‘! know.
`I would say ns. that I created
`documents that described specific elements of access
`control or specific characteristics of certain types of
`access control: but access control. as described in the
`concept
`in the patent. 1 don't know that 1 can globally
`say that, answer that question.
`(1
`Von just mentioned that you do recall creating
`some documents about access control.
`
`Patent filing, for example.
`when?
`I don't specifically recall.
`okay.
`The patent application is one, right?
`I would say. yeah, that’: fine.
`what other documents were there?
`I really don't specifically recall.
`okay. when did you create those other
`:1
`ducunents?
`the document —— I
`A
`Again. 1 don't recall what
`know that I did |I0|‘k on things that talked about
`different elements and different types of access
`control .
`whether they specifically referred to the
`types that might be out of the patent. t can‘: neally
`answer. and I just don't recall.
`a
`okay.
`Nl'.WI'_ between this date, May 25th '97,
`and the data that thl patent application was filed,
`which was December 315:;
`'97, was the patent
`application the only thing that you were working on?
`A
`No.
`
`uhat else were you working on‘!
`Q
`oh. many. many things.
`1 really don't recall
`A
`I do recall
`my projects that were ongoing at the time.
`that I was very. very busy.
`Q
`Do you know how Ilany other things you were
`
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`'97.
`I would say it was March 22nd.
`A
`Okay.
`(1
`where is that? show me specifically
`where in cxh-ihit 24 there's a conception of the
`management station.
`A
`Again, it's implicit with the storage router
`concept.
`so once you have a drawing like Figure
`okay.
`£1
`3 which shows workstations and storage devices in a
`storage router,
`implicit in that disclosure is an
`independent Inanagenem workstation, correct?
`A
`I would say that any contemporaneous documents
`that refer to a storage router and the concern of a
`storage router at that point did allow for and provide
`interconnects for an external management station. Yes.
`I)
`what contemporaneous documents?
`rrot-ably
`A
`There's the Vtrrazano specification.
`other dacunents.
`I don‘: specifically recall all of
`them.
`Okay.
`Q
`that point
`Schematics were present at
`A
`showed interconnects to those devices.
`Q
`Do any of lhose other documents tall: about
`modifying access control through that -anagulllelll
`station?
`
`that
`
`D:-or 30
`I would not believe that any diet prior to this
`
`A
`document.
`okay. And this document itself doesn't show
`11
`that either. right?
`A
`poem‘: show what either?
`Q
`using on independent manigencnt station to
`modify access control.
`A
`Implicit
`in the definition of a storage
`router. that connectivity is implicit along with the
`statement that method: are provided.
`The statement
`in Exhibit 21 that
`0
`okay-
`methods are provided.
`is that a statement that that
`portion of your invention: is in software rather than in
`hardware?
`A
`I wouldn't characterize it that way.
`Q
`Okay.
`so would using software have Iieen a
`natural choice in your mind?
`A
`It is neither exclusively a hardware or a
`software characteristic.
`software is an element, could
`very well be considered a necessary element. and
`hardware could very well be considered a necessary
`element.
`there's no disclosure in this document,
`mm.
`0
`Exhibit 24, of any use of any sort of tables to keep
`t