·1· · · · · ·UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
`·2· · · · · · BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`·3
`
`·4· ·GOOGLE INC.,· · · · · · ·)
`
`·5· · · · · · Petitioner,· · ·)
`
`·6· ·vs.· · · · · · · · · · · )· Case IPR2015-00806
`
`·7· ·SUMMIT 6 LLC,· · · · · · )· U.S. Patent No. 7,765,482
`
`·8· · · · · · Patent Owner.· ·)· Case IPR2015-00807
`
`·9· · · · · · · · · · · · · · )· U.S. Patent No. 8,612,515
`
`10· ·_________________________)
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14· · · · · · DEPOSITION OF MARTIN E. KALISKI, PH.D.
`
`15· · · · · · · · · San Luis Obispo, California
`
`16· · · · · · · · · ·Friday, February 26, 2016
`
`17· · · · · · · · · · ·8:00 a.m. - 10:57 a.m.
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20· ·Reported by:· Lora L. Shoffstall, RPR, CSR 9271
`
`21· · · · · · · · ·File No. 214310
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Petitioner - Exhibit 1017
`Page 1 of 105
`
`
`
`·2· · · · · · BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`·3
`
`·4· ·GOOGLE INC.,· · · · · · ·)
`
`·5· · · · · · Petitioner,· · ·)
`
`·6· ·vs.· · · · · · · · · · · )· Case IPR2015-00806
`
`·7· ·SUMMIT 6 LLC,· · · · · · )· U.S. Patent No. 7,765,482
`
`·8· · · · · · Patent Owner.· ·)· Case IPR2015-00807
`
`·9· · · · · · · · · · · · · · )· U.S. Patent No. 8,612,515
`
`10· ·_________________________)
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14· · · · · · DEPOSITION OF MARTIN E. KALISKI, PH.D.
`
`15· · · · · · · · · San Luis Obispo, California
`
`16· · · · · · · · · ·Friday, February 26, 2016
`
`17· · · · · · · · · · ·8:00 a.m. - 10:57 a.m.
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20· ·Reported by:· Lora L. Shoffstall, RPR, CSR 9271
`
`21· · · · · · · · ·File No. 214310
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Petitioner - Exhibit 1017
`Page 1 of 105
`
`
`
`·1· · · · · · THE DEPOSITION OF MARTIN E. KALISKI, PH.D.
`
`·2· ·was taken at Merit Court Reporting & Video, 3220 South
`
`·3· ·Higuera Street, Suite 323, San Luis Obispo, California,
`
`·4· ·before Lora L. Shoffstall, CSR No. 9271 and Registered
`
`·5· ·Professional Reporter, on Friday, February 26, 2016,
`
`·6· ·commencing at 8:00 a.m.
`
`·7
`
`·8· ·APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL:
`
`·9· ·For Petitioner:
`
`10· · · · · · KILPATRICK TOWNSEND
`
`11· · · · · · BY:· MICHAEL MORLOCK, ESQ.
`
`12· · · · · · 1001 West Fourth Street
`
`13· · · · · · Winston-Salem, North Carolina 27101
`
`14· · · · · · (336) 607-7391
`
`15· · · · · · mmorlock@kilpatricktownsend.com
`
`16· ·For Patent Owner:
`
`17· · · · · · LEE & HAYES, PLLC
`
`18· · · · · · BY:· JOHN SHUMAKER, PH.D., ESQ.
`
`19· · · · · · 11501 Alterra Parkway, Suite 450
`
`20· · · · · · Austin, Texas 78758
`
`21· · · · · · (512) 872-3006
`
`22· · · · · · jshumaker@leehayes.com
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Petitioner - Exhibit 1017
`Page 2 of 105
`
`
`
`·1· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·I N D E X
`
`·2· ·WITNESS· · · · · · · · · · EXAMINED BY· · · · · · · PAGE
`
`·3· ·MARTIN E. KALISKI, PH.D... BY MR. MORLOCK........· · ·4
`
`·4· ·.......................... BY MR. SHUMAKER.......· ·101
`
`·5
`
`·6
`
`·7· · · · · · · · · · ·INFORMATION REQUESTED
`
`·8· · · · · · · · · · · · · · (None)
`
`·9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12· · · · · · · QUESTIONS INSTRUCTED NOT TO ANSWER
`
`13· · · · · · · · · · · · · · (None)
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17· · · · · · · · · EXHIBITS FOR IDENTIFICATION
`
`18· · · · · · · · · · (No exhibits offered.)
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Petitioner - Exhibit 1017
`Page 3 of 105
`
`
`
`·1· · · · · · · · · MARTIN E. KALISKI, PH.D.,
`
`·2· · · · · · · · ·having first been duly sworn,
`
`·3· · · · · · ·was examined and testified as follows:
`
`·4
`
`·5· · · · · · · · · · · · · EXAMINATION
`
`·6· ·BY MR. MORLOCK:
`
`·7· · · ·Q.· ·Could you state your full name for the record,
`
`·8· ·please.
`
`·9· · · ·A.· ·Martin Kaliski.· K-a-l-i-s-k-i.
`
`10· · · ·Q.· ·Thank you.· And could you give your address
`
`11· ·too, please.
`
`12· · · ·A.· ·2831 El Cerrito, C-e-r-r-i-t-o, Street,
`
`13· ·San Luis Obispo, California 93401.
`
`14· · · ·Q.· ·Thank you.· Dr. Kaliski, is there any reason
`
`15· ·you can't give complete and accurate testimony this
`
`16· ·morning?
`
`17· · · ·A.· ·No.
`
`18· · · ·Q.· ·And I see from your CV you have been deposed
`
`19· ·before.
`
`20· · · ·A.· ·Many times.
`
`21· · · ·Q.· ·Approximately how many?
`
`22· · · ·A.· ·Between 50 and 60.
`
`23· · · ·Q.· ·Between 50 and 60.· So I will give you the very
`
`24· ·short version of standard deposition instructions.
`
`25· · · · · · I'm going to ask questions, and you're going to
`
`Petitioner - Exhibit 1017
`Page 4 of 105
`
`
`
`·1· ·answer those questions.· Do you understand that?
`
`·2· · · ·A.· ·I do understand that.
`
`·3· · · ·Q.· ·And you understand you're under oath just as
`
`·4· ·though you were testifying in front of a judge and jury
`
`·5· ·and all that?· Just, we're in a room?
`
`·6· · · ·A.· ·I do.
`
`·7· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· I will assume you're going to understand
`
`·8· ·a question I ask unless you ask for clarification.
`
`·9· · · ·A.· ·That's fair.
`
`10· · · ·Q.· ·That's fair.· Thank you.
`
`11· · · · · · Obviously, you need to respond audibly so our
`
`12· ·court reporter can type out the answer.· So no nodding
`
`13· ·and all that.
`
`14· · · · · · Could you walk me through your education,
`
`15· ·starting with immediately after high school.
`
`16· · · ·A.· ·Sure.· I was at MIT for nine years, from
`
`17· ·freshman through PhD.
`
`18· · · ·Q.· ·And what degrees did you receive from MIT?
`
`19· · · ·A.· ·Four degrees.· I received a bachelor of science
`
`20· ·in electrical engineering, a bachelor of science in
`
`21· ·mathematics, a master of science in electrical
`
`22· ·engineering, and a PhD in electrical engineering.
`
`23· · · ·Q.· ·Is your experience primarily engineering, is
`
`24· ·what it sounds like?
`
`25· · · ·A.· ·As opposed to?
`
`Petitioner - Exhibit 1017
`Page 5 of 105
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·Q.· ·Do you have any degrees in marketing?
`
`·2· · · ·A.· ·Marketing?· No, I don't.
`
`·3· · · ·Q.· ·Have you taken any classes in marketing?
`
`·4· · · ·A.· ·You know, it's been a long time.· I may have
`
`·5· ·taken an economics class.· I didn't take specifically a
`
`·6· ·class in marketing.
`
`·7· · · ·Q.· ·What about in business?
`
`·8· · · ·A.· ·No.
`
`·9· · · ·Q.· ·Fair to say you're not an expert in marketing?
`
`10· ·Not an expert in business?
`
`11· · · ·A.· ·I have no formal educational training in those
`
`12· ·areas.· That's true.
`
`13· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· So you're not an expert in those areas?
`
`14· · · ·A.· ·No, I'm not an expert in those areas.
`
`15· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Do you have any legal training?
`
`16· · · ·A.· ·Never went to law school.· My dad was a lawyer.
`
`17· ·I've been working with lawyers closely for about
`
`18· ·20 years now.
`
`19· · · ·Q.· ·But you're not an expert in patent law?
`
`20· · · ·A.· ·I'm not a patent attorney.· I don't have any
`
`21· ·formal training in patent law.
`
`22· · · ·Q.· ·So you're not an expert who can give an opinion
`
`23· ·on an issue of law?
`
`24· · · ·A.· ·No.
`
`25· · · · · · MR. SHUMAKER:· Objection.· Form.
`
`Petitioner - Exhibit 1017
`Page 6 of 105
`
`
`
`·1· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· No.
`
`·2· ·BY MR. MORLOCK:
`
`·3· · · ·Q.· ·Just a little bit of additional followup on
`
`·4· ·what we're doing here.· You're aware that this
`
`·5· ·deposition is for two separate IPRs?
`
`·6· · · ·A.· ·I am.
`
`·7· · · ·Q.· ·So it's IPR -- so the record is clear,
`
`·8· ·IPR2015-00806 and IPR2015-00807?
`
`·9· · · ·A.· ·I'll defer to you on those numbers, but I'm
`
`10· ·aware there are two separate IPRs.
`
`11· · · ·Q.· ·And you're aware that this deposition is going
`
`12· ·to appear in both of those two proceedings?
`
`13· · · ·A.· ·It's my understanding that I'm treating the two
`
`14· ·as if they were one.· I have a single declaration, and I
`
`15· ·assume the deposition will appear in both.
`
`16· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· That's -- that's fair.· And you're aware
`
`17· ·that those two proceedings relate to US Patent 7,765,485
`
`18· ·and US Patent 8,612,515?
`
`19· · · ·A.· ·I am aware of that.
`
`20· · · ·Q.· ·And throughout the course of this deposition,
`
`21· ·I'm going to refer to those two patents at the
`
`22· ·'482 patent and the '515 patent.· Is that fair?
`
`23· · · ·A.· ·That's fine.
`
`24· · · ·Q.· ·Great.· Let's start off with an exhibit.· I'm
`
`25· ·handing you what has been previously marked as
`
`Petitioner - Exhibit 1017
`Page 7 of 105
`
`
`
`·1· ·Exhibit 1004.
`
`·2· · · · · · Would you like a copy?
`
`·3· · · · · · MR. SHUMAKER:· Yes, please.
`
`·4· ·BY MR. MORLOCK:
`
`·5· · · ·Q.· ·Do you recognize Exhibit 1004?
`
`·6· · · ·A.· ·This appears to be a hard copy with extremely
`
`·7· ·small print of the Creamer patent.
`
`·8· · · ·Q.· ·When you say "extremely small print," is that
`
`·9· ·the standard-size print for a printed U.S. patent?
`
`10· · · ·A.· ·You know, it looks smaller to me, in all
`
`11· ·candor.· These days, most of the patents I look at are
`
`12· ·in electronic form, and they're more -- they're more
`
`13· ·readable, but this certainly appears to be the usual
`
`14· ·size of a printed patent, about 8 and a half by 11, but
`
`15· ·it does seem -- it does seem smaller than other patents
`
`16· ·I've seen.
`
`17· · · ·Q.· ·I'll represent to you that that's a -- we've
`
`18· ·not done anything to modify the text of that patent.· Is
`
`19· ·that fair enough?
`
`20· · · ·A.· ·Yeah, and I wasn't suggesting that you did.
`
`21· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· So are you able to read the text of that
`
`22· ·patent?
`
`23· · · ·A.· ·I am able to read the text of the patent.
`
`24· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Thank you.· And from time to time today,
`
`25· ·I'm going to refer to that patent as either Exhibit 1004
`
`Petitioner - Exhibit 1017
`Page 8 of 105
`
`
`
`·1· ·or Creamer.· Is that fair enough?
`
`·2· · · ·A.· ·That's fair enough.
`
`·3· · · ·Q.· ·Could I turn you to the abstract of Creamer?
`
`·4· · · ·A.· ·I think that's right in front of me right now.
`
`·5· · · ·Q.· ·It is.· Very first page.
`
`·6· · · ·A.· ·Okay.
`
`·7· · · ·Q.· ·And review the abstract.
`
`·8· · · · · · Would you agree that Creamer discloses an
`
`·9· ·Internet-connected camera?
`
`10· · · ·A.· ·Let me review the abstract.
`
`11· · · · · · Could you please repeat your question?
`
`12· · · ·Q.· ·Sure.· Would you agree that Creamer discloses a
`
`13· ·camera with an Internet connection?
`
`14· · · · · · MR. SHUMAKER:· Objection.· Form.
`
`15· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· I would phrase it somewhat
`
`16· ·differently.· I'd say that Creamer discloses a camera
`
`17· ·that initiates a connection to the Internet, based on
`
`18· ·what the abstract says, and often the abstract is
`
`19· ·potentially more imprecise than the actual, detailed
`
`20· ·disclosure.· But I would say that it talks in this
`
`21· ·abstract about a camera that can connect to the
`
`22· ·Internet.
`
`23· ·BY MR. MORLOCK:
`
`24· · · ·Q.· ·So you agree that Creamer discloses a camera
`
`25· ·that can connect to the Internet?
`
`Petitioner - Exhibit 1017
`Page 9 of 105
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·A.· ·I would agree with that.
`
`·2· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Could I turn you to column 29, line 42.
`
`·3· · · ·A.· ·Line 42?
`
`·4· · · ·Q.· ·Yes.· For your reference, that's page 39 of the
`
`·5· ·exhibit, if that --
`
`·6· · · ·A.· ·I'm there.
`
`·7· · · ·Q.· ·Perfect.
`
`·8· · · ·A.· ·I'm sorry.· Did you want me to do something
`
`·9· ·with line 42?
`
`10· · · ·Q.· ·If you look at line 42 through 53.
`
`11· · · ·A.· ·I have looked at them.
`
`12· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Would you agree, then, that Creamer
`
`13· ·discloses a camera with an LCD display?
`
`14· · · ·A.· ·One of the embodiments of Creamer talks about a
`
`15· ·detachable or integrated full video LCD display.
`
`16· · · ·Q.· ·And you would agree that one of those
`
`17· ·embodiments is a color LCD display as well?
`
`18· · · ·A.· ·The section you referred me to talks about the
`
`19· ·display being a color or grayscale LCD display.
`
`20· · · ·Q.· ·So one embodiment of Creamer, then, is a
`
`21· ·digital camera with a color LCD display that is capable
`
`22· ·of connecting to the Internet?
`
`23· · · ·A.· ·Well, this paragraph doesn't talk about
`
`24· ·connecting to the Internet, but I will agree that this
`
`25· ·paragraph talks about an LCD display, which can be
`
`Petitioner - Exhibit 1017
`Page 10 of 105
`
`
`
`·1· ·grayscale or color.
`
`·2· · · ·Q.· ·And it talks about that -- if you look at the
`
`·3· ·paragraphs around that, Creamer discusses that LCD
`
`·4· ·display being a part of a camera?
`
`·5· · · ·A.· ·Well, the very section you cited me to talks
`
`·6· ·about the LCD display being part of the camera in this
`
`·7· ·embodiment.
`
`·8· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· What is your understanding of the term
`
`·9· ·"thumbnail"?
`
`10· · · ·A.· ·In the context of cameras?
`
`11· · · ·Q.· ·Yes.
`
`12· · · ·A.· ·Or images?
`
`13· · · ·Q.· ·Yes.
`
`14· · · ·A.· ·A thumbnail is a small version of an image
`
`15· ·which conveys sufficient information to give you an idea
`
`16· ·of what the image looks like, but is not a particularly
`
`17· ·high resolution.· Just intended to convey basic visual
`
`18· ·information, like an icon on your smartphone, for
`
`19· ·example.
`
`20· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· And would you agree -- well, go to
`
`21· ·column 13, lines 21 through 24 of Creamer.
`
`22· · · ·A.· ·13, 21 through 24.· Let me review those, 21
`
`23· ·through 24.
`
`24· · · · · · Okay.· I have reviewed those.
`
`25· · · ·Q.· ·Would you agree, then, that Creamer discusses a
`
`Petitioner - Exhibit 1017
`Page 11 of 105
`
`
`
`·1· ·thumbnail that is a smaller image used for browsing
`
`·2· ·images?
`
`·3· · · · · · MR. SHUMAKER:· Objection.· Form.
`
`·4· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· I think that Creamer here talks
`
`·5· ·about thumbnail images and is -- is effectively defining
`
`·6· ·what he means by that as a smaller image used for
`
`·7· ·browsing images.
`
`·8· ·BY MR. MORLOCK:
`
`·9· · · ·Q.· ·And does that smaller image used for browsing
`
`10· ·images meet your understanding of the term "thumbnail"?
`
`11· · · ·A.· ·As long as "browsing" is used in the sense of,
`
`12· ·you know, the way people talk about browsing, you know,
`
`13· ·the aisles of a store, looking around, as opposed to
`
`14· ·tied to a browser in the sense of a web browser.
`
`15· · · ·Q.· ·And how -- what do you mean by in the sense of
`
`16· ·"tied to a web browser"?
`
`17· · · ·A.· ·I'm -- again, you've given me a single sentence
`
`18· ·in a big patent.· If I said to you how the browsing --
`
`19· ·if you had on your computer a web browser open, be it --
`
`20· ·be it Firefox or Google Chrome or what have you, and I
`
`21· ·said, "How are the browsing capabilities of that?" that
`
`22· ·use of "browsing" would be in the context of going to
`
`23· ·websites and seeing how quickly they're displayed and
`
`24· ·how sharp the images are and so forth.
`
`25· · · · · · If that -- in a different context, if you had
`
`Petitioner - Exhibit 1017
`Page 12 of 105
`
`
`
`·1· ·on your -- on your smartphone a bunch of icons and I
`
`·2· ·said, "Boy, those are pretty sharp," and I browsed
`
`·3· ·through what the display on your phone looks like, I'm
`
`·4· ·not using a web browser.· I'm just looking through them.
`
`·5· ·That's what I mean.
`
`·6· · · ·Q.· ·So your understanding of a thumbnail -- or your
`
`·7· ·understanding of a thumbnail, then, is a
`
`·8· ·lower-resolution image that you can use to browse
`
`·9· ·through a set of -- or more efficiently browse through
`
`10· ·sets of images?
`
`11· · · · · · MR. SHUMAKER:· Objection.· Form.
`
`12· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· Yeah, you know, effectively, if,
`
`13· ·you know, my -- you know, my daughter has an Android
`
`14· ·phone, a Samsung Edge, Galaxy Edge, and she was showing
`
`15· ·it off to me the other day, and I was looking through
`
`16· ·it.· I was browsing it, looking at all the thumbnails on
`
`17· ·it to see what kind of apps she had.· So that's the
`
`18· ·sense in which I think "browsing" is used, and that's
`
`19· ·the way I use the term "thumbnail" in general.
`
`20· · · · · · In the context of this patent, might need to
`
`21· ·have a more focused definition, and if you want to point
`
`22· ·me to something else, we can certainly talk about that.
`
`23· ·BY MR. MORLOCK:
`
`24· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Let's take a look at figure 8 of this
`
`25· ·patent.· And if you need to review where in the patent
`
`Petitioner - Exhibit 1017
`Page 13 of 105
`
`
`
`·1· ·figure 8 is referred to, the steps are described
`
`·2· ·starting around column 18.
`
`·3· · · ·A.· ·Well, I think I'll wait to review that until I
`
`·4· ·hear what question you have to ask me.
`
`·5· · · ·Q.· ·Sure.· And so we agreed earlier that Creamer
`
`·6· ·discloses a digital camera?
`
`·7· · · ·A.· ·Did we agree to that?· We agreed that it
`
`·8· ·disclosed a camera connected to the Internet.· I'm not
`
`·9· ·sure you said "digital" in your question.
`
`10· · · ·Q.· ·Would you agree that that camera is digital?
`
`11· · · ·A.· ·You know, I'm not -- I'm not sure that the
`
`12· ·word -- certainly "digital images" are talked about.
`
`13· ·I'm not sure if the phrase "digital camera" actually
`
`14· ·ever appears in this patent.
`
`15· · · ·Q.· ·That's fair enough.· Would you agree that
`
`16· ·Creamer discloses a camera that is capable of capturing
`
`17· ·digital images?
`
`18· · · ·A.· ·Yes.
`
`19· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· So the process -- would you agree that
`
`20· ·figure 8, starting at step S32, discusses the process
`
`21· ·for capturing a digital image?
`
`22· · · ·A.· ·Well, now let me look at column 18 and see what
`
`23· ·it says.· Could you ask me that question again, please?
`
`24· · · ·Q.· ·Sure.· Would you agree that figure 8 discloses
`
`25· ·a process for how Creamer captures a digital image?
`
`Petitioner - Exhibit 1017
`Page 14 of 105
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·A.· ·Figure 8 shows what happens from the time an
`
`·2· ·image is captured until it's moved over to
`
`·3· ·general-purpose memory.
`
`·4· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· So you would agree that, at step S32,
`
`·5· ·what we're seeing is an exposure is taken by the sensor
`
`·6· ·on a digital camera?
`
`·7· · · ·A.· ·An exposure is determined so that we could
`
`·8· ·figure out the best way of taking the picture.
`
`·9· · · ·Q.· ·And that it -- and then, at S34, as described
`
`10· ·in column 18, that -- I believe the term it uses is
`
`11· ·"accumulating light" that's processed through an A to D
`
`12· ·converter?
`
`13· · · ·A.· ·Let's see what it says in step 34.· This talks
`
`14· ·about the process of using accumulated light, which is
`
`15· ·intrinsically analog in nature, to create a digital
`
`16· ·image to put in image memory.
`
`17· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· And so what is put in image memory is a
`
`18· ·digital image?
`
`19· · · · · · MR. SHUMAKER:· Objection.· Form.
`
`20· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· Well, it's putting it in memory.
`
`21· ·So it's digital, digital signal, yes.
`
`22· ·BY MR. MORLOCK:
`
`23· · · ·Q.· ·So that is a digital signal stored to memory?
`
`24· · · ·A.· ·Stored in the image memory that is disclosed in
`
`25· ·Creamer, yes.
`
`Petitioner - Exhibit 1017
`Page 15 of 105
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·Q.· ·And that is an image that is stored in image
`
`·2· ·memory?
`
`·3· · · · · · MR. SHUMAKER:· Objection.· Form.
`
`·4· · · · · · MR. MORLOCK:· Counsel --
`
`·5· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· It's a captured -- it's a
`
`·6· ·captured image using the exposure that was set on the
`
`·7· ·camera.
`
`·8· ·BY MR. MORLOCK:
`
`·9· · · ·Q.· ·And is that captured image in image memory --
`
`10· ·that's a digital captured image?
`
`11· · · ·A.· ·Yes.
`
`12· · · ·Q.· ·And then the next step is that, at S36, that
`
`13· ·image is processed to be adjusted?
`
`14· · · ·A.· ·Step 36 talks about an image adjustment step
`
`15· ·involving color adjustment, time, date, message
`
`16· ·stamping, compression, character generation, and so on.
`
`17· · · ·Q.· ·And are those steps processing the image?
`
`18· · · · · · MR. SHUMAKER:· Objection.· Form.
`
`19· · · · · · MR. MORLOCK:· Counsel, what's the basis for
`
`20· ·that objection?
`
`21· · · · · · MR. SHUMAKER:· "Processing" has a legal
`
`22· ·definition.· So I'm just not sure what scope and content
`
`23· ·and context you're using for the term "processing."
`
`24· · · · · · MR. MORLOCK:· Okay.
`
`25· · · ·Q.· ·So would you agree that that step is processing
`
`Petitioner - Exhibit 1017
`Page 16 of 105
`
`
`
`·1· ·an image?
`
`·2· · · ·A.· ·I would agree that it's taking the raw image
`
`·3· ·data and performing some operations on it.
`
`·4· · · ·Q.· ·And what is doing those operations?
`
`·5· · · ·A.· ·What is doing those operations?
`
`·6· · · ·Q.· ·What is performing the operations?
`
`·7· · · ·A.· ·The firmware in the camera.
`
`·8· · · ·Q.· ·So that firmware is controlled by what
`
`·9· ·component?
`
`10· · · ·A.· ·I don't specifically remember the component,
`
`11· ·but it's in the camera, and it -- it performs operations
`
`12· ·on this image so it can be moved over into
`
`13· ·general-purpose memory into an image slot.
`
`14· · · ·Q.· ·So -- and the component, as described by
`
`15· ·column 18, line 63, "The microcontroller controls the
`
`16· ·color adjusting circuit 256, the compression engine 226,
`
`17· ·and the character generator 254"?
`
`18· · · ·A.· ·That's what it says, yes.
`
`19· · · ·Q.· ·So you would agree, then, that at step 36 a
`
`20· ·microcontroller is controlling how the image is
`
`21· ·adjusted?
`
`22· · · ·A.· ·It's executing firmware to perform this image
`
`23· ·adjustment step, yes.
`
`24· · · ·Q.· ·And what do you mean by "executing a firmware"?
`
`25· · · ·A.· ·Well, you used the word "controlling."· I would
`
`Petitioner - Exhibit 1017
`Page 17 of 105
`
`
`
`·1· ·rather think of the microcontroller as a kind of CPU.
`
`·2· · · ·Q.· ·Well, what does that acronym "CPU" -- what does
`
`·3· ·that stand for?
`
`·4· · · ·A.· ·CPU?
`
`·5· · · ·Q.· ·Yes.
`
`·6· · · ·A.· ·Central processing unit.
`
`·7· · · ·Q.· ·So the central processing unit is controlling
`
`·8· ·components that adjust the image?
`
`·9· · · ·A.· ·The microcontroller's central processing unit
`
`10· ·is executing instructions to do various things.· And in
`
`11· ·particular in this step, S36, it's adjusting the image,
`
`12· ·the raw image data.
`
`13· · · ·Q.· ·The raw image data.· And then at -- that image
`
`14· ·data, is that image data a file?
`
`15· · · ·A.· ·It's a -- it's stored in image memory.· I don't
`
`16· ·recall if the -- my sense is that the patent is silent
`
`17· ·on the format in which it's stored.· You know, I don't
`
`18· ·know if I would view it as a file so much as just an
`
`19· ·allocated area of memory, which you can -- you know
`
`20· ·where it begins and where it ends, so you can -- after
`
`21· ·you've done the adjustment, you can -- and any
`
`22· ·compression, you can move it over to the associated
`
`23· ·image slot in general-purpose memory.
`
`24· · · ·Q.· ·And that's step S38, to move a -- to
`
`25· ·JPEG-compress the image and move to general-purpose
`
`Petitioner - Exhibit 1017
`Page 18 of 105
`
`
`
`·1· ·memory?
`
`·2· · · ·A.· ·What about that step?
`
`·3· · · ·Q.· ·Is that step S38 that you just described?
`
`·4· · · ·A.· ·That's what it says in S38.· It says "JPEG
`
`·5· ·compress to GP," general purpose, "DRAM," which is a
`
`·6· ·form of memory.
`
`·7· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· And you would agree that the image
`
`·8· ·stored in image memory is a superset of the data that is
`
`·9· ·stored in general-purpose ram?
`
`10· · · ·A.· ·I don't think I would agree with that at all.
`
`11· ·I'm not even sure what you mean by that.· Normally in
`
`12· ·mathematics, when we talk about a superset, if A is a
`
`13· ·superset of B, A contains everything in B, plus more.
`
`14· · · · · · When you take that raw image and compress it,
`
`15· ·you may change the zeros and ones completely so that the
`
`16· ·end product, end result, which is stored in DRAM,
`
`17· ·D-R-A-M, is not a subset at all of that image.· It's
`
`18· ·just derived of the raw image.· It's just derived from
`
`19· ·it.
`
`20· · · ·Q.· ·So you agree, then, that the -- or your
`
`21· ·testimony is that the JPEG image stored at S38 is
`
`22· ·derived from the image data stored in image memory?
`
`23· · · ·A.· ·I would correct your question to say the
`
`24· ·JPEG-compressed raw image causes an image to be derived
`
`25· ·from what's in image memory, the raw image data, and
`
`Petitioner - Exhibit 1017
`Page 19 of 105
`
`
`
`·1· ·stored in general-purpose memory.
`
`·2· · · ·Q.· ·And the image is the same in those two steps?
`
`·3· · · ·A.· ·Well, let's be clear on -- on technical
`
`·4· ·language here.· Neither one of those is -- looks like a
`
`·5· ·picture of something.· It's not like a photograph.· It's
`
`·6· ·not something you see and say, "Oh, there's my
`
`·7· ·Uncle Fred."· It's a representation of an image, of the
`
`·8· ·picture that you've taken.· So what's the raw image data
`
`·9· ·is a representation of that -- of that photo, of that
`
`10· ·person that you took the picture of, stored, you know,
`
`11· ·after it's captured.
`
`12· · · · · · What's ultimately stored in general-purpose
`
`13· ·memory is -- is the -- it's a compressed version of it
`
`14· ·that represents the same picture.· And what's in
`
`15· ·general-purpose memory is the image that is going to be
`
`16· ·potentially moved over to the Internet.
`
`17· · · ·Q.· ·So what's in general-purpose memory is a
`
`18· ·JPEG-compressed representation of the same picture that
`
`19· ·was in image memory?
`
`20· · · ·A.· ·A JPEG-compressed.· Other things are done to it
`
`21· ·in the image adjustment step:· color calibration and
`
`22· ·character generation.· But it is a -- it is a -- it's
`
`23· ·another version of the same picture with some operations
`
`24· ·having been carried out on it in the image-adjustment
`
`25· ·step.
`
`Petitioner - Exhibit 1017
`Page 20 of 105
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·Q.· ·So operations were carried out during the
`
`·2· ·image-adjustment step, but it's the same -- it's the
`
`·3· ·same data having been changed --
`
`·4· · · ·A.· ·That's --
`
`·5· · · ·Q.· ·-- in format?
`
`·6· · · ·A.· ·That statement is internally inconsistent.· If
`
`·7· ·it's changed, it's not the same data.· It's derived from
`
`·8· ·it.· That's about as much as I can offer you on that.
`
`·9· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Could I turn you to Creamer column 26,
`
`10· ·lines 5 through 6.
`
`11· · · ·A.· ·5 through 6?
`
`12· · · ·Q.· ·Yes.
`
`13· · · ·A.· ·26.· Give me a moment.· Just 5 through 6?
`
`14· · · ·Q.· ·You can look around it if you --
`
`15· · · ·A.· ·Well, I just want to make sure what you're
`
`16· ·focusing on.
`
`17· · · ·Q.· ·5 through 6 is what I was pointing you to.
`
`18· · · ·A.· ·The reason I asked is because 6 ends in the
`
`19· ·middle of a sentence.· So what you're pointing me to
`
`20· ·says, for the record, "accordingly, as determined by the
`
`21· ·user, the camera 1 reports the status of image uploads,
`
`22· ·errors, and changes in."· Okay.
`
`23· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· And would you -- would you agree that
`
`24· ·discloses that the camera reports the status of image
`
`25· ·uploads?
`
`Petitioner - Exhibit 1017
`Page 21 of 105
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·A.· ·If the user has determined that that be the
`
`·2· ·case, yes, I would agree with that.
`
`·3· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· And could I turn you to column 12,
`
`·4· ·line 62.
`
`·5· · · ·A.· ·Line 62.· One line.· Okay.· Let me look at the
`
`·6· ·line.
`
`·7· · · ·Q.· ·You can actually start at the sentence that
`
`·8· ·begins on line 60, if you like.
`
`·9· · · ·A.· ·So "The menu structure may be made accessible
`
`10· ·via a tabular or line-mode text interface, a graphical
`
`11· ·user interface," and line 62 ends with "or any other
`
`12· ·user interface respons-· --"
`
`13· · · ·Q.· ·You can read the next.
`
`14· · · ·A.· ·"-- -sive -- responsive to the button/switch
`
`15· ·input 214 or serial/Ir/DA port 210" -- and I'll just
`
`16· ·finish the sentence -- "that allows the parameters to be
`
`17· ·set and stored.
`
`18· · · ·Q.· ·So would you agree that Creamer discloses a
`
`19· ·graphical user interface?
`
`20· · · ·A.· ·It says "The menu structure may be a graphical
`
`21· ·user interface."· There are, therefore, embodiments, at
`
`22· ·least suggested here, that don't have a graphical user
`
`23· ·interface .
`
`24· · · ·Q.· ·But there are embodiments in Creamer that
`
`25· ·suggest a graphical user interface?
`
`Petitioner - Exhibit 1017
`Page 22 of 105
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·A.· ·For the menu structure, yes.
`
`·2· · · ·Q.· ·And there's also embodiments in Creamer that
`
`·3· ·would be any other user interface responsive to the
`
`·4· ·button/switch input 214?
`
`·5· · · ·A.· ·That's what it says, yes.
`
`·6· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Could I turn you to Creamer column 11,
`
`·7· ·line 37.
`
`·8· · · ·A.· ·Line 37.
`
`·9· · · ·Q.· ·Yes.· And --
`
`10· · · ·A.· ·I assume, beginning with "The microcontroller
`
`11· ·200"?
`
`12· · · ·Q.· ·Yes.· And you can read that.· It's a multiline
`
`13· ·sentence.· You don't have to read it out loud, but you
`
`14· ·can.
`
`15· · · ·A.· ·I'd like to read it out loud.· I'll read it
`
`16· ·into the record here.
`
`17· · · · · · "The microcontroller 200 also is capable of
`
`18· ·adjusting the resolution of images stored in the image
`
`19· ·memory on a continuous scale with preferred preservation
`
`20· ·of aspect ratio" -- then there's a parenthetic
`
`21· ·comment -- "either before or after storage therein."
`
`22· ·That's what that sentence says.
`
`23· · · ·Q.· ·I think I missed where you were.
`
`24· · · ·A.· ·You asked me to read silently, or otherwise,
`
`25· ·column 11, line 36.· Did you not?
`
`Petitioner - Exhibit 1017
`Page 23 of 105
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·Q.· ·I did.· And --
`
`·2· · · ·A.· ·And that's what I thought I did.
`
`·3· · · ·Q.· ·So there's a sentence that begins on column 11,
`
`·4· ·line 36, and continues through line 43.
`
`·5· · · ·A.· ·Right.· And I read that sentence.· I omitted
`
`·6· ·the parts in parentheses.
`
`·7· · · ·Q.· ·I see.· I see.· You skipped the parenthetical.
`
`·8· ·Okay.· I was waiting for you to say the parenthetical.
`
`·9· ·I apologize.
`
`10· · · · · · Would you agree that these paragraphs or this
`
`11· ·section discusses adjusting the size of an image?
`
`12· · · ·A.· ·I would agree that it discusses adjusting the
`
`13· ·resolution of an image.
`
`14· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· And does the resolution of an image
`
`15· ·affect the size of that image?
`
`16· · · ·A.· ·It does.
`
`17· · · ·Q.· ·So Creamer discloses adjusting the size of an
`
`18· ·image?
`
`19· · · ·A.· ·Well, the only reason I'm reticent to agree to
`
`20· ·that statement is that words in a patent have a very --
`
`21· ·are important, and it doesn't say "adjust the size of
`
`22· ·the image."· It says "adjust the resolution of the
`
`23· ·image."
`
`24· · · ·Q.· ·But you agree resolution will adjust the size
`
`25· ·of an image file?· If resolution is varied, it will vary
`
`Petitioner - Exhibit 1017
`Page 24 of 105
`
`
`
`·1· ·the size of the image file?
`
`·2· · · · · · MR. SHUMAKER:· Objection.· Form.
`
`·3· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· You know, yes and no.· I can
`
`·4· ·imagine that I have a fixed-size file where I'm going to
`
`·5· ·be storing my image.· And that file takes up so many
`
`·6· ·bytes.· And maybe for a low-resolution version of the
`
`·7· ·image, I'm only filling in every fourth or eighth byte
`
`·8· ·with information, and I'm ignoring the others.· But for
`
`·9· ·a high-resolution version, I'm filling in all of the
`
`10· ·bytes.· So the resolution is changing because of the way
`
`11· ·I'm reading the data, but the size associated with the
`
`12· ·image hasn't changed.· And that's why I'm being very
`
`13· ·careful in distinguishing between "size" and
`
`14· ·"resolution."
`
`15· ·BY MR. MORLOCK:
`
`16· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· But if I have an image file of a high
`
`17· ·resolution and a certain size and I convert that image
`
`18· ·file to a lower resolution, will the file size be
`
`19· ·smaller?
`
`20· · · ·A.· ·Well, that's what I was just talking about.· It
`
`21· ·may or may not be because the way -- what makes it low
`
`22· ·resolution is what data I'm choosing to look at.· And so
`
`23· ·I can keep the size the same, but only for processing
`
`24· ·purposes or display purposes look at every fourth or
`
`25· ·every eighth byte, you know, and so the size of the file
`
`Petitioner - Exhibit 1017
`Page 25 of 105
`
`
`
`·1· ·hasn't changed, but what I'm displaying could have a
`
`·2· ·lower resolution.
`
`·3· · · ·Q.· ·But the size of the file could be made smaller
`
`·4· ·by varying the resolution?
`
`·5· · · ·A.· ·I will -- I will phrase it this way.· I can
`
`·6· ·certainly store a lower resolution file with less
`
`·7· ·storage than I would require for a higher resolution
`
`·8· ·one.
`
`·9· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Let's introduce another exhibit.· And I
`
`10· ·may not have said this before, but if you need a break,
`
`11· ·let me know.
`
`12· · · ·A.· ·Generally I want to take a break about every
`
`13· ·hour.
`
`14· · · ·Q.· ·Every hour.· I've got us having gone for
`
`15· ·35 minutes or so.
`
`16· · · ·A.· ·Yeah.· We can wait till 9:00.
`
`17· · · ·Q.· ·Just let me know.· As long as we don't have a
`
`18· ·question pending.
`
`19· · · ·A.· ·The court reporter could use a break every
`
`20· ·hour, I suspect.
`
`21· · · ·Q.· ·And I could too.
`
`22· · · ·A.· ·Okay.
`
`23· · · ·Q.· ·So you have in front of you Exhibit 1005, which
`
`24· ·is U.S. Patent 6,223,190 to Aihara.
`
`25· · · ·A.· ·I do.
`
`Petitioner - Exhibit 1017
`Page 26 of 105
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·Q.· ·And you recognize this patent?
`
`·2· · · ·A.· ·I do.· I'll make the same comments about its
`
`·3· ·form as I did for Creamer.· I do -- I don't think I've
`
`·4· ·seen the patent before in hard copy, but I do recognize
`
`·5· ·it.
`
`·6· · · ·Q.· ·And have you reviewed this patent in the past?
`
`·7· · · ·A.· ·Oh, I have, yes.
`
`·8· · · ·Q.· ·About how much time did you spend reviewing it?
`
`·9· · · ·A.· ·Oh, don't ask me that.· I don't keep track of
`
`10· ·that kind of thing in my head, you know.· Whenever I
`
`11· ·review a patent, I have a standard procedure for
`
`12· ·reviewing it.· I have two monitors, and I have one with
`
`13· ·the pictures and one with the text.· And I, you know,
`
`14· ·start with the abstract and the background and summary
`
`15· ·of the invention, and then, as with a comic book, I look
`
`16· ·at the pictures, and then I start reading it.· And --
`
`17· · · ·Q.· ·Do you read comic books?
`
`18· · · ·A.· ·Depends on the comic book.
`
`19· · · ·Q.· ·I haven't looked at a comic book in years. I
`
`20· ·was actually thinking about that the other day, that
`
`21· ·period in the '90s when comic books were supposed to be
`
`22· ·investment vehicles.
`
`23· · · ·A.· ·I'm an Uncle Scrooge fan.
`
`24· · · · · · But no, anyway, I have looked at the patent.
`
`25· ·And, you know, it's not the length of the patent alone
`
`Petitioner - Exhibit 1017
`Page 27 of 105
`
`
`
`·1· ·which determines how long it takes to re
Accessing this document will incur an additional charge of $.
After purchase, you can access this document again without charge.
Accept $ Charge
Still Working On It
This document is taking longer than usual to download. This can happen if we need to contact the court directly to obtain the document and their servers are running slowly.
Give it another minute or two to complete, and then try the refresh button.
A few More Minutes ... Still Working
It can take up to 5 minutes for us to download a document if the court servers are running slowly.
Thank you for your continued patience.
This document could not be displayed.
We could not find this document within its docket. Please go back to the docket page and check the link. If that does not work, go back to the docket and refresh it to pull the newest information.
Your account does not support viewing this document.
You need a Paid Account to view this document. Click here to change your account type.
Your account does not support viewing this document.
Set your membership
status to view this document.
With a Docket Alarm membership, you'll
get a whole lot more, including:
- Up-to-date information for this case.
- Email alerts whenever there is an update.
- Full text search for other cases.
- Get email alerts whenever a new case matches your search.
One Moment Please
The filing “” is large (MB) and is being downloaded.
Please refresh this page in a few minutes to see if the filing has been downloaded. The filing will also be emailed to you when the download completes.
Your document is on its way!
If you do not receive the document in five minutes, contact support at support@docketalarm.com.
Sealed Document
We are unable to display this document, it may be under a court ordered seal.
If you have proper credentials to access the file, you may proceed directly to the court's system using your government issued username and password.
Access Government Site
