HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL
`
`Page 1
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`IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
`FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF TENNESSEE
`
`DENTSPLY INTERNATIONAL,
`INC., and TULSA DENTAL
`PRODUCTS LLC d/b/a TULSA:
`DENTAL SPECIALTIES,
`
`Plaintiffs,
`
`v.
`
`US ENDODONTICS, LLC,
`
`Defendant.
`
`Civil Action No.
`2: 14-CV-00196 (JRG) (DHI)
`
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`** HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL **
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`VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION of NEILL
`14
`HAMILTON LUEBKE, DDS, MS, taken before Ryan K.
`15
`16 Black, CLR, RPR, Notary Public, in and for
`17
`the District of Columbia, at the offices of
`18 Rothwell, Figg, Ernst & Manbeck, 607 14th
`19 Street, NW, Suite 800, Washington, D.C., on
`20 Wednesday, October 8, 2014, commencing at
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`9:01 a.m.
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`
`GOLD STANDARD EXHIBIT 2004
`US ENDODONTICS v. GOLD STANDARD
`CASE IPR2015-00632
`
`212-279-9424
`
`VERITEXT REPORTING COMPANY
`www.veritext.com
`
`212-490-3430
`
`
`
`Page 1
`
`IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
`FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF TENNESSEE
`
`DENTSPLY INTERNATIONAL,
`INC., and TULSA DENTAL
`PRODUCTS LLC d/b/a TULSA:
`DENTAL SPECIALTIES,
`
`Plaintiffs,
`
`v.
`
`US ENDODONTICS, LLC,
`
`Defendant.
`
`Civil Action No.
`2: 14-CV-00196 (JRG) (DHI)
`
`1
`
`2
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`** HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL **
`
`10
`11
`12
`13
`VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION of NEILL
`14
`HAMILTON LUEBKE, DDS, MS, taken before Ryan K.
`15
`16 Black, CLR, RPR, Notary Public, in and for
`17
`the District of Columbia, at the offices of
`18 Rothwell, Figg, Ernst & Manbeck, 607 14th
`19 Street, NW, Suite 800, Washington, D.C., on
`20 Wednesday, October 8, 2014, commencing at
`21
`9:01 a.m.
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`GOLD STANDARD EXHIBIT 2004
`US ENDODONTICS v. GOLD STANDARD
`CASE IPR2015-00632
`
`212-279-9424
`
`VERITEXT REPORTING COMPANY
`www.veritext.com
`
`212-490-3430
`
`
`
`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL
`
`Page 108
`
` A. The same.
` Q. Going back to your expert report that
`we've marked Luebke Exhibit 3, I want to direct
`your attention to Paragraph 10.
` Let me know when you're there.
` A. I am there.
` Q. Okay. In the middle of that paragraph
`you state, in later experiments you came up with
`the idea of heat treating nickel-titanium
`endodontic files that were not coated, and
`tested these instruments after they were heat
`treated.
` Do you see that?
` A. Yes.
` Q. What possessed you to heat treat
`nickel-titanium endodontic files?
` MR. DAHLGREN: Objection; form.
`Objection; vague.
` THE WITNESS: That actually explains
`it pretty well.
` I had discussions with endodontists
`who were complaining about, we call them broken,
`separated, fractured files in teeth. And I had
`not used those instruments because of that. And
`so before I was going to do that, I wanted to
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`VERITEXT REPORTING COMPANY
`www.veritext.com
`
`212-490-3430
`
`
`
`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL
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`Page 109
`solve -- see if I could solve a -- a problem.
`BY MR. GINSBERG:
` Q. Why did you think that one way to
`solve the problem would be to heat treat a
`nickel-titanium endodontic file?
` MR. DAHLGREN: Objection; form.
`Vague.
` THE WITNESS: That isn't where I
`started.
`BY MR. GINSBERG:
` Q. But you eventually got there.
` MR. DAHLGREN: Same objections.
` THE WITNESS: That would be a
`quantum --
` MR. DAHLGREN: Is there a question?
` THE WITNESS: That would be a quantum
`leap, however.
`BY MR. GINSBERG:
` Q. How did you get to -- like, why did
`you think you should heat treat nickel-titanium
`files? How did that idea come into your mind?
` MR. DAHLGREN: Objection; form.
`Compound.
` THE WITNESS: I thought the reason
`nickel-titanium files were fracturing is because
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`212-490-3430
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`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL
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`Page 110
`they weren't sharp enough. So my first -- I
`first addressed sharpness with diamond coating.
` Talking to manufacturers, talking
`-- talking -- looking at some of the things
`that came with it, I realized there may be
`more problems with diamonds than with the files
`themselves.
` The concept was still sharpness. So I
`decided if I TIN coated them, I could, perhaps,
`make them sharper.
` So that's what I did.
`BY MR. GINSBERG:
` Q. How did you get to heat treating?
` MR. DAHLGREN: Objection; form.
` THE WITNESS: Are you aware of the TIN
`coating process?
`BY MR. GINSBERG:
` Q. Explain it.
` A. TIN coating process is the short
`for titanium nitride. And I took some files
`to a heat treater. We figured out a jig that it
`would work in. And we did the titanium nitride,
`which is placing the files in a furnace,
`evacuating the atmosphere and replacing it with
`nitrogen, having a pure titanium rod, put
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`VERITEXT REPORTING COMPANY
`www.veritext.com
`
`212-490-3430
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`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL
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`Page 111
`electricity across it, it atomizes and it
`deposits on the files. And that's how you TIN
`coat them.
` Q. Okay. And that's what's referred to
`as your earliest experiments, correct?
` MR. DAHLGREN: Objection; form.
` THE WITNESS: That would be correct.
`BY MR. GINSBERG:
` Q. Then you say, in later experiments,
`you came up with the idea of heat treating
`nickel-titanium endodontic files that were not
`coated.
` Do you see that?
` A. Yes.
` Q. How did you come up with the idea of
`heat treating nickel-titanium files that were
`not coated?
` MR. DAHLGREN: Objection; form.
` THE WITNESS: I tested the TIN coated
`files, and I was satisfied with some of the
`results, using 3630-1, General Requirements.
` My concern, however, was, although
`it may have made it sharper, was there a
`possibility that the TIN coating could come
`off, just like the diamond might have, and so I
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`212-490-3430
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`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL
`
`Page 112
`would have been trading one problem for another
`problem. But I liked the results, so I decided
`to eliminate the TIN coating.
`BY MR. GINSBERG:
` Q. When you were coating the
`nickel-titanium files, was that nickel-titanium
`files that had the shank with the cutting edges
`already formed?
` MR. DAHLGREN: Objection; form.
`Objection to the extent it calls for a legal
`conclusion.
` THE WITNESS: That would be correct.
`BY MR. GINSBERG:
` Q. And what temperature were the files
`heat treated to when you did the coat -- well,
`were they subjected to any particular
`temperature during the heat treatment -- during
`the coating process?
` MR. DAHLGREN: Objection; form.
` THE WITNESS: During the coating
`process?
` Yeah, they were.
`BY MR. GINSBERG:
` Q. What temperature?
` MR. DAHLGREN: Objection; form.
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`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL
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`Page 113
` THE WITNESS: I believe it was 500
`degrees.
`BY MR. GINSBERG:
` Q. And that treatment took place in a
`nitrogen atmosphere, correct?
` MR. DAHLGREN: Objection; form.
` THE WITNESS: Yeah. That's where the
`N in TIN comes from, yeah.
`BY MR. GINSBERG:
` Q. At the time you filed your provisional
`application that's identified on the '773
`patent, which was June 8th, 2004, --
` A. Okay.
` Q. -- it was known that the ability
`to pre-bend an endodontic file was useful
`to endodontics -- endodontists, correct?
` MR. DAHLGREN: Objection; form.
`Objection; vague.
` THE WITNESS: That's a very
`interesting question, because, in stainless
`steel, the answer is, absolutely correct.
`BY MR. GINSBERG:
` Q. And in Paragraph 12 of your report,
`you state that, pre-bending a file is something
`that is important and useful to endodontists,
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`www.veritext.com
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`212-490-3430
`
`
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