UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
` _____________________________
`
` APPLE, INC., HTC CORPORATION,
`
` HTC AMERICA, INC., et al.,
`
` Petitioners,
`
` V.
`
` MEMORY INTEGRITY, LLC,
`
` Patent Owner.
`
` _____________________________
`
` CONTINUED VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF
`
` VOJIN G. OKLOBDZIJA, PH.D.
`
` VOLUME II
`
` Redwood City, California
`
` Tuesday, November 24, 2015
`
` Reported by:
`
` Kelli Combs, CSR No. 7705
`
` Job No. 2188241
`
` PAGES 156 - 225
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`1
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`APPLE 1027
`Apple et al. v. Memory Integrity
`IPR2015-00163
`
`

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`1 APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL CONTINUED:
`
`23
`
`For the Patent Owner, Memory Integrity, LLC:
`4 FARNEY DANIELS PC
`5 BY: MICHAEL D. SAUNDERS, ESQ.
`6 411 Borel Avenue, Suite 350
`7 San Mateo, California 94402
`8 (650) 833-2442
`9 msaunders@farneydaniels.com
`10
`11 ALSO PRESENT:
`12 Ramon Peraza, Videographer
`13 Robert Horst, Ph.D., Expert for Petitioners
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
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`24
`25
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`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
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` Continued Videotaped Deposition of VOJIN G.
`9 OKLOBDZIJA, PH.D., Volume II, taken on behalf of
`10 Petitioners, at FISH & RICHARDSON, 500 Arguello Road,
`11 Suite 500, Redwood City, California, commencing at
`12 9:23 a.m., Tuesday, November 24, 2015, before Kelli
`13 Combs, CSR No. 7705.
`14
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`Page 157
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`Page 159
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`1 APPEARANCE OF COUNSEL:
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`1 I N D E X
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`2 3
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`EXAMINATION PAGE
`4 VOJIN G. OKLOBDZIJA, PH.D.
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`5 6
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` (BY MR. BILLAH) 162
`7 (BY MR. SAUNDERS) 187
`8 (BY MR. RUECKHEIM) 222
`9
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`14
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`2 3
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`For Petitioners Apple, Inc., HTC Corporation, HTC
`4 America, Inc., Samsung Electronics Company, Ltd.,
`5 Samsung Electronics America, Inc., Samsung
`6 Telecommunications America, LLC and Amazon.com, Inc.:
`7 FISH & RICHARDSON
`8 BY: MICHAEL REUCKHEIM, ESQ.
`9 1221 McKinney Street, Suite 2800
`10 Houston, Texas 77010
`11 713-654-5300
`12 rueckheim@fr.com
`13
`14 For the Petitioners Sony Corporation, Sony Electronics,
`15 Inc., Sony Mobile Communications AB and Sony Mobile
`16 Communications USA, Inc.:
`17 KENYON & KENYON
`18 BY: ZAED M. BILLAH, ESQ.
`19 One Broadway
`20 New York, NY 10004-1007
`21 212.425.7200
`22 zbillah@kenyon.com
`23
`24
`25
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`1 We broke yesterday at about 4:30 in the 9:23:32AM
`2 afternoon and resuming this morning.
`3 In that time period between when we broke
`4 yesterday and right now, did you speak to anybody
`5 about the substance of your deposition? 9:23:42AM
`6 A No.
`7 Q You didn't speak to counsel?
`8 A No. About the substance of the
`9 deposition.
`10 Q You spoke to counsel about something other 9:23:50AM
`11 than the deposition?
`12 A Yeah. Perhaps, you know, about how long
`13 it will take to get there, et cetera, but not -- not
`14 about the deposition.
`15 Q Okay. 9:23:59AM
`16 MR. BILLAH: What's the next exhibit, 12?
`17 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Yes.
`18 (Deposition Exhibit 12 marked
`19 for identification.)
`20 MR. BILLAH: Mark this as 12, please. 9:24:12AM
`21 BY MR. BILLAH:
`22 Q Please take a look at what's been marked
`23 as Exhibit 12.
`24 Do you recognize this document?
`25 A Yes. 9:24:37AM
`
`1 EXHIBITS
`2 NUMBER DESCRIPTION PAGE
`
`3 4
`
`Exhibit 12 Curriculum vitae of 163
`5 Dr. Oklobdzija
`6 Exhibit 13 Document titled "A Primer 178
`7 on Memory Consistency and
`8 Cache Coherence"
`9 Exhibit 14 Declaration of Dr. Robert 187
`10 Horst in Case Numbers
`11 IPR2015-00159,
`12 IPR2015-00161,
`13 IPR2015-00163 and
`14 IPR2015-00172
`15 Exhibit 15 Document titled "Memory 192
`16 Integrity, LLC's Patent
`17 Owner Response Pursuant to
`18 37 CFR Section 42.120 in
`19 IPR2015-00159"
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
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`Page 161
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`Page 163
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`1 Q What is this document? 9:24:39AM
`2 A It's my curriculum vitae.
`3 Q And looking at this document right now,
`4 Exhibit 12, are you aware of anything that is
`5 inaccurate about the document? Take your time. 9:24:51AM
`6 A No, but there may be no updates or there
`7 may be some misses in terms of updating it, so...
`8 Q And in the bottom left of the first page,
`9 you see it says modified January 24, 2013?
`10 A That is correct, but I think that is 9:25:19AM
`11 inaccurate too because I think there were further
`12 modifications from 2013.
`13 Q Okay.
`14 Do you know the approximate date that this
`15 document was updated? 9:25:28AM
`16 Let me rephrase that --
`17 A I think it may have been -- it must have
`18 been updated 2014, maybe early 2015 when I submitted
`19 it.
`20 Q Okay. 9:25:47AM
`21 So this document is up to date as of early
`22 2015, late 2014, best of your estimate?
`23 A That's my belief.
`24 Q Okay.
`25 Is there anything -- anything significant 9:25:58AM
`Page 164
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`3 (Pages 161 - 164)
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`1 Tuesday, November 24, 2015; Redwood City, California
`
`2 9:23 a.m.
`
`3 ---o0o---
`
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Good morning. Here 9:22:59AM
`
`4 5
`
`6 begins Volume II of the videotaped deposition of
`
`7 Dr. Vojin Oklobdzija in the matter of Apple, Inc.,
`
`8 et al. versus Memory Integrity, et al. Today's date
`
`9 is November 24th, 2015. We are on the record at
`
`10 9:23 a.m. 9:23:15AM
`
`11 VOJIN G. OKLOBDZIJA, PH.D.,
`
`12 having been previously duly sworn, testified as follows:
`
`13 ---o0o---
`
`14
`
`15 EXAMINATION 9:23:15AM
`
`16 BY MR. BILLAH:
`
`17 Q Good morning, Dr. Oklobdzija.
`
`18 A Good morning.
`
`19 Q My name is Zaed Billah. I represent the
`
`20 Sony Petitioners in the three cases. I'll be 9:23:23AM
`
`21 continuing your deposition this morning.
`
`22 Do you understand you're still under oath
`
`23 from yesterday?
`
`24 A I do.
`
`25 Q Okay. 9:23:31AM
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`1 from that time that you would want to tell us about? 9:26:01AM
`2 MR. SAUNDERS: Objection; form.
`3 THE WITNESS: No.
`4 BY MR. BILLAH:
`5 Q Okay. 9:26:23AM
`6 The bottom of page 1 there, Exhibit 12, it
`7 says "Employment History."
`8 Do you see that?
`9 A Yes, I do.
`10 Q And then your employment history seems to 9:26:28AM
`11 go up until the middle of page 4; is that right?
`12 A That is correct.
`13 Q Do any of these positions that you list
`14 here have to do with research and development?
`15 A Yes. Several. 9:26:48AM
`16 Q Which ones?
`17 A Okay. So they start from the beginning.
`18 Q Yes.
`19 A So 1971 and '73, I was employed as a
`20 physicist in the Institute of Physics, which is a 9:26:58AM
`21 research institution.
`22 '73 to '74, the Institute for Automation
`23 and Telecommunications, also a research institution.
`24 University of Belgrade is a university research
`25 institution, '74 to '76. 9:27:22AM
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`Page 165
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`1 THE WITNESS: Yes, as part of my teaching, 9:29:23AM
`2 I was teaching cache and architecture and
`3 multiprocessors, supercomputing, et cetera.
`4 BY MR. BILLAH:
`5 Q Well, apart from teaching, I'm talking 9:29:33AM
`6 about research. Did you do research in cache
`7 coherent technology?
`8 A Not particular in cache coherence.
`9 Q Please turn to page 12 of your
`10 declaration -- sorry, your CV. 9:29:47AM
`11 A But I did -- I must qualify. I did work
`12 in industry with cache coherence.
`13 Q On page 12 it says -- it starts at the
`14 top, "U.S. Patents."
`15 Do you see that? 9:30:05AM
`16 A Yes, I do.
`17 Q And then continues to the bottom, it says
`18 "European Patents."
`19 Do you see that?
`20 A Yes, I do. 9:30:11AM
`21 Q And the next page, page 13, it says
`22 "Japanese Patents."
`23 A Yes, I do.
`24 Q And then it seems that the patent section
`25 of your CV ends on page 14. 9:30:19AM
`Page 167
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`1 UCLA as a university was -- is also 9:27:25AM
`2 research institution, '77 to '82. IBM, Watson
`3 Research Center is a research institutions and still
`4 is. University of California Berkeley is a research
`5 institution. 9:27:50AM
`6 The time I spent in Korea was at the
`7 University. Also I consulted for Samsung, and I did
`8 research in Korea. Ecole Polytechnique in
`9 Switzerland, 2004, is a research -- it's university
`10 and the research institution, and I did research 9:28:12AM
`11 there too. I did research, performed research or
`12 was engaged in research.
`13 Sidney University is a research
`14 university, so is University of Texas at Dallas,
`15 University of California Davis. 9:28:42AM
`16 Now, the research I maintained from the
`17 University of California at Davis, and I continue as
`18 Emeritus Professor. It's a research group called
`19 Axel. And I think that ends it.
`20 Q Thank you. 9:29:11AM
`21 And in these positions that you have that
`22 have to do with research and/or development, did you
`23 ever do any research specifically in cache coherent
`24 technology?
`25 MR. SAUNDERS: Objection; form. 9:29:21AM
`Page 166
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`1 Do you see that? 9:30:22AM
`2 A That's correct.
`3 Q Do any of these patents -- strike that.
`4 Are any of these patents in the field of
`5 cache coherent technology? 9:30:30AM
`6 A They're not directly related to cache
`7 coherence.
`8 Q Please turn to page 15 of your CV.
`9 Below "Education," there's a bolded entry
`10 for "Publications." 9:30:45AM
`11 Do you see that?
`12 A I do.
`13 Q And the publications appear to go through
`14 books, book chapters, journal papers, and it ends at
`15 the bottom of page 20; is that correct? 9:30:58AM
`16 A That's correct.
`17 Q Do any of these publications deal
`18 specifically with cache coherence technology?
`19 A Okay. So let's say Reference Number 2,
`20 "Computer Engineering," I think it has sections, I 9:31:17AM
`21 believe, on cache. Reference 5, "Digital Systems
`22 and Applications," I believe has reference on cache.
`23 "Arithmetic..."
`24 Okay. I have written computer
`25 organization architecture. I don't believe there's 9:31:51AM
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`1 cache in there. 9:31:53AM
`2 Q Sorry, which one?
`3 A That Number 2 on page 16. Okay. There's
`4 a publication 27 on page 23; it does deal with
`5 cache. It's not particularly on coherency, but it's 9:33:20AM
`6 cache related. I think that is about it.
`7 Q Okay.
`8 So let me see if I can summarize the
`9 answer. I'm not sure I got it.
`10 We're talking about the publications, so 9:34:25AM
`11 the section of your CV that's from page 15 to the
`12 bottom of page 20, of all of these publications,
`13 there are two publications that you're aware of that
`14 discuss cache coherency technology specifically; is
`15 that correct? 9:34:48AM
`16 A If -- if I mention two, then that's
`17 correct. I didn't count how many I mentioned.
`18 Q Okay.
`19 I think those two, if you look at page 15,
`20 were item numbers 2 and 5 listed under the "Books" 9:34:58AM
`21 section of your CV; is that correct?
`22 A Okay. 2 and 5 in the "Book," right.
`23 Q Yes.
`24 A And then further in "Publications," I
`25 think I mentioned one or two. 9:35:13AM
`Page 169
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`1 Q Okay. 9:36:27AM
`2 Let's flip to page 20 of your CV.
`3 A Okay.
`4 Q So there's a heading at the bottom; it's
`5 titled "Conference Proceedings." 9:36:42AM
`6 Do you see that?
`7 A Yeah.
`8 Q And those conference proceedings are
`9 listed and they seem to go to page 32; is that
`10 correct? 9:36:57AM
`11 A That is correct.
`12 Q Did any of these conferences -- take that
`13 back.
`14 Do I understand it correctly that at all
`15 of these conference proceedings you actually spoke 9:37:10AM
`16 at these conferences?
`17 A I cannot say 100 percent, but most of them
`18 I did.
`19 Q And if you didn't speak at one of the
`20 conferences, why did you list them here in your CV? 9:37:28AM
`21 A Because this is how the conference
`22 publications are listed. I'm an author of -- those
`23 are not presentations. Those are papers that were
`24 published.
`25 Q I understand. Okay. 9:37:44AM
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`Page 171
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`1 Q On that point on the further publications, 9:35:16AM
`2 did any of the publications have to do with cache
`3 coherency technology as opposed to just cache?
`4 A Well, you cannot separate the two, but
`5 I -- I don't have publications that I would 9:35:28AM
`6 specifically target cache coherence. That's --
`7 that's correct.
`8 Q Okay.
`9 So let's talk about this book, Number 2,
`10 titled "Computer Engineering" that's listed on 9:35:40AM
`11 page 15 of your CV.
`12 A Okay.
`13 Q Do you have a recollection as to whether
`14 there's a chapter on cache coherency or any kind of
`15 delineation on cache coherency technology versus 9:36:03AM
`16 other technology?
`17 MR. SAUNDERS: Objection; form.
`18 THE WITNESS: Yeah. I don't at this
`19 point. It's 2001, so...
`20 BY MR. BILLAH: 9:36:14AM
`21 Q Okay.
`22 What about for the Book Number 5, "Digital
`23 Systems and Applications"; was there a chapter on
`24 cache coherence technology?
`25 A Again, I can't say with certainty. 9:36:24AM
`Page 170
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`1 A Those are -- they're papers published in 9:37:46AM
`2 journals and papers published in the conference
`3 proceedings, books.
`4 Q Okay.
`5 So actually where you said "Conference 9:37:55AM
`6 Proceedings," these are actually all under the
`7 "Publication" sections?
`8 A They're all publications, right.
`9 Q Okay.
`10 A In academia, they tend to separate those 9:38:04AM
`11 two publications because journalists are considered
`12 archival, even though today everything is archived
`13 on I Triple Explorer, so there's no difference.
`14 Yeah.
`15 Q Okay. Thank you. 9:38:21AM
`16 A Traditionally in the past, journalists --
`17 journalists were published and printed and sent to
`18 much wider audience. By conference proceedings are
`19 published and printed and targeted to a smaller,
`20 specialized groups on the subject of the conference, 9:38:36AM
`21 so that's what make distinction.
`22 Q Okay. Thank you.
`23 Can you flip to page 33 of your CV.
`24 A Yes.
`25 Q There's a title at the top that says 9:38:57AM
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`1 "Presentations." 9:38:59AM
`2 Do you see that?
`3 A Yes, I do.
`4 Q And you appear to list presentations all
`5 the way until the end of your CV, which is at 9:39:04AM
`6 page 52.
`7 A That is correct.
`8 Q Do you see that? Okay.
`9 Am I correct that in all the presentations
`10 that are listed here, you actually made a 9:39:16AM
`11 presentation, correct?
`12 A That is correct. Yes.
`13 Q Okay.
`14 Did any of these presentations have to do
`15 with cache coherency technology specifically? 9:39:24AM
`16 A Not that I recall.
`17 MR. SAUNDERS: Objection; form.
`18 BY MR. BILLAH:
`19 Q Do you consider yourself an expert in
`20 cache coherence technology? 9:39:42AM
`21 A Okay. My focus of my research, as you
`22 pointed through, is not cache coherence technology.
`23 There are people who -- whose entire life career is
`24 cache coherence. For example, like Sorin's advisor,
`25 Michelle Dubois. D-U-B-O-I-S, it's spelled. I'm 9:40:08AM
`Page 173
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`1 BY MR. BILLAH: 9:41:40AM
`2 Q Can you tell me what your definition of
`3 "expert" is?
`4 A I'm applying the definition which -- which
`5 has been applied widely here. So someone who has a 9:41:47AM
`6 knowledge in the field and is capable to understand
`7 and solve problems in that particular field.
`8 Q If I understand you correctly, you have a
`9 different definition of "expert" that you were not
`10 applying right here; is that correct? 9:42:27AM
`11 MR. SAUNDERS: Objection; form.
`12 THE WITNESS: No. I think I made side
`13 remark, you know. I have to apply the definition of
`14 an "expert" which has been used in U.S., and this is
`15 what I just recited, which is used commonly and 9:42:40AM
`16 which you understand is an expert.
`17 To me personally, personally, outside of
`18 this testimony, I mean, expert will be, like, two,
`19 three people in the world that are really the top,
`20 very distinguished that have knowledge that nobody 9:43:03AM
`21 has. But that is very, very restrictive. So I
`22 cannot apply that definition.
`23 BY MR. BILLAH:
`24 Q Okay.
`25 So under that more restrictive definition 9:43:16AM
`Page 175
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`1 not -- I don't belong to this group of people. 9:40:19AM
`2 However, as a practitioner through my work
`3 on microprocessor design at IBM, at Sun
`4 MicroSystems, and in particularly my last job in
`5 Skyera where we -- we designed a large 9:40:37AM
`6 multiprocessor system, I had to deal with cache
`7 coherency heavily.
`8 Q Okay.
`9 I understand you have some experience with
`10 cache coherence technology. 9:40:54AM
`11 A Right.
`12 Q My question is: Do you consider yourself
`13 an expert in cache coherence technology?
`14 MR. SAUNDERS: Objection; form.
`15 THE WITNESS: To that extent, yes, if I 9:41:00AM
`16 had to solve the problems of cache coherence or if I
`17 have to make a decision, design decisions, then I
`18 have to have expertise. My definition of the word
`19 "expert" is -- is a little bit different than what
`20 is being used in this country. I mean, in this 9:41:18AM
`21 country, it's used widely, "expert." I would -- you
`22 know, in my -- my kind of own definition, I -- I
`23 consider experts may be a few people in the world,
`24 but obviously, you know, this is not the definition
`25 of an "expert." 9:41:38AM
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`Page 174
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`1 that you just provided me, you're not an expert in 9:43:18AM
`2 cache coherence technology?
`3 A Nobody is, except maybe a few people.
`4 Q And do you know who those few people might
`5 be? 9:43:26AM
`6 A Yes. Christoferos Kozyrakis at Stanford
`7 University. Christoferos Kozyrakis at Stanford
`8 University.
`9 Q Can you spell that for the record, please.
`10 A Christoferos. Can you spell Christoferos? 9:43:40AM
`11 (Reporter clarification.)
`12 THE WITNESS: All right. It's a Greek
`13 name.
`14 MR. BILLAH: Let the record reflect that
`15 the witness is writing on the back of Exhibit 12. 9:43:58AM
`16 THE WITNESS: I'm writing the name, yeah.
`17 Let me see. I think it's probably...
`18 MR. BILLAH: Hold it up to the camera,
`19 please.
`20 MR. SAUNDERS: You might want to read it 9:44:20AM
`21 out too.
`22 BY MR. BILLAH:
`23 Q You can read out the letters to your own
`24 handwriting.
`25 A K-O-Z-Y-R-I-A-K-I-S [sic], Kozyrakis. And 9:44:29AM
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`1 I have employed him as a consultant during my work 9:44:39AM
`2 in Skyera on the cache coherence issues. I think
`3 he's a top expert.
`4 Q And were there any other top --
`5 A And I worked with him also. 9:44:51AM
`6 Q And are there any other top experts in
`7 cache coherence technology?
`8 MR. SAUNDERS: Objection; form.
`9 THE WITNESS: To the strict definition
`10 as -- as -- as you asked me to apply, I don't know 9:45:02AM
`11 of anyone. I mean, I know people who do work in
`12 cache coherency, like people who -- I just mentioned
`13 Michelle Dubois. I haven't been working with him,
`14 so -- on cache coherency. I worked with Kozyrakis,
`15 so I don't know that. I don't consider your expert, 9:45:31AM
`16 Sorin -- is it Sorin? That we -- that we -- Sorin,
`17 yeah, I don't consider him expert. He's just a
`18 student, I think a student of a person who knows and
`19 works on cache coherency.
`20 If you want a very, you know, very strict 9:46:02AM
`21 definition as you want to apply, then, you know,
`22 then I don't think any one of them would fit it.
`23 But Kozyrakis is well known; he's the top in the
`24 world, and I work with him and hired him as a
`25 consultant for that very same reason. 9:46:27AM
`Page 177
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`1 A Yes. 9:48:32AM
`2 Q In the middle of the paragraph, it says:
`3 "For example, in Sorin et al.,
`4 A Primer on Memory Consistency and
`5 Cache Coherence (2011)..." 9:48:43AM
`6 And it goes on to the rest of the
`7 sentence.
`8 Do you see that?
`9 A Yeah.
`10 Q That book that you're referring to there, 9:48:46AM
`11 is that Exhibit 13?
`12 A That is correct.
`13 Q You signed this -- your reply declaration
`14 on August 11th, 2015; is that correct?
`15 A That is correct. 9:49:07AM
`16 Q And you may have told us yesterday, but I
`17 don't remember; when were you retained to help
`18 Memory Integrity in these IPRs?
`19 A July 2nd.
`20 Q 2015? 9:49:17AM
`21 A 2015.
`22 Q Okay.
`23 In that time period, July 2nd, 2015, to
`24 August 11th, 2015, how much of this Sorin book did
`25 you actually read? 9:49:30AM
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`Page 179
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`1 BY MR. BILLAH: 9:46:33AM
`2 Q All right.
`3 Take a look at what we -- what we looked
`4 at yesterday, Exhibit 1. It should be at the top
`5 there. 9:46:44AM
`6 A Exhibit Number 1?
`7 Q Yeah. It should be your patent -- your
`8 reply declaration. Is that right?
`9 A Yes.
`10 MR. BILLAH: Mark this, please. 9:47:15AM
`11 (Deposition Exhibit 13 marked
`12 for identification.)
`13 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: 13.
`14 BY MR. BILLAH:
`15 Q Can you please look at what's been marked 9:47:59AM
`16 as Exhibit 13.
`17 A Yes. I have it in front of me.
`18 Q Do you recognize this document?
`19 A Yes.
`20 Q What is this document? 9:48:05AM
`21 A This is a book by Sorin, Hill and Wood,
`22 "Primer Memory Consistency and Cache Coherence."
`23 Q If you look at Exhibit 1, which is your
`24 reply declaration, could you turn to page 6,
`25 paragraph 15, please. 9:48:25AM
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`Page 178
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`1 MR. SAUNDERS: Objection; form. 9:49:32AM
`2 THE WITNESS: I read related sections on
`3 the cache coherency, but I haven't gone through the
`4 entire book and chapters that are not relevant to --
`5 to the subject here. 9:49:45AM
`6 BY MR. BILLAH:
`7 Q Can you give me an approximation of how
`8 many pages of the Sorin book you actually read?
`9 MR. SAUNDERS: Objection; form.
`10 THE WITNESS: Okay. Give me a second. 9:49:55AM
`11 BY MR. BILLAH:
`12 Q Yeah. Sure. Take your time.
`13 A Okay. I went through the first 175 pages.
`14 I haven't gone into details of some of that
`15 chapters. Basically that book comes out of his 9:51:34AM
`16 Ph.D. dissertation, which is dealing with some
`17 specific work that he has done, which was not
`18 relevant to '121 patent, et cetera. And so I was,
`19 in particular, looking for definitions and how he
`20 defines that, so I skipped quite a bit of that 9:51:59AM
`21 stuff, but I would say about 50 pages which out of
`22 200, about 20 percent.
`23 Q Let me make sure I understand that.
`24 Your testimony is that your best estimate
`25 is that you read about 50 pages of the Sorin book? 9:52:19AM
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`1 A Yes. I -- I went through the book, but I 9:52:25AM
`2 did not read in detail. I paid more attention to
`3 certain parts where I was looking for the
`4 definitions, particular the one that is -- that I
`5 used in my declaration, but I didn't go into the 9:52:51AM
`6 details of the schemes that he's describing, et
`7 cetera.
`8 Q And prior to when you were retained in
`9 this case, July 2nd, 2015, did you ever read any
`10 portion of this Sorin book? 9:53:09AM
`11 A Prior to that, no. And let me just
`12 clarify something. This is a Morgan & Claypool
`13 publisher. They publish a lot of Ph.D. theses,
`14 which they involve in the book, or they make a book
`15 out of them. Those are not textbooks, so general 9:53:39AM
`16 books that -- that form a foundation of knowledge on
`17 cache and cache coherence.
`18 Q Okay.
`19 Let's take a look at your declaration
`20 again, your reply declaration. Can you flip to 9:54:09AM
`21 page 5, paragraph 13.
`22 A I'm there.
`23 Q Paragraph 13 in your second sentence, it
`24 says:
`25 "Although the Board did not 9:54:42AM
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`1 adopt an express construction of 9:54:43AM
`2 the term 'state,' it held that 'the
`3 term [state] is not limited to
`4 cache coherence protocol states and
`5 is broad enough to include the 9:54:54AM
`6 condition of presence - i.e., what
`7 is stored in cache memory.'"
`8 Do you see that?
`9 A I see that.
`10 Q That portion of that sentence where it's 9:55:04AM
`11 quoting or appears to be quoting the institution
`12 decision --
`13 A Apparently so.
`14 Q -- what is your understanding of that
`15 phrase there where it says "the term is not limited 9:55:17AM
`16 to cache coherence protocol states," and continues
`17 to the end of the sentence where it says "cache
`18 memory"?
`19 MR. SAUNDERS: Objection; form,
`20 foundation. 9:55:34AM
`21 THE WITNESS: Can you repeat the question?
`22 Can you repeat the question? I'm not sure I catch
`23 it.
`24 BY MR. BILLAH:
`25 Q Yeah. 9:55:41AM
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`1 You do see where you're quoting a section 9:55:41AM
`2 of the institution decision.
`3 Do you see --
`4 A I do.
`5 Q Okay. 9:55:45AM
`6 What is your understanding of the -- that
`7 text that you're quoting?
`8 A My understanding --
`9 MR. SAUNDERS: Objection.
`10 THE WITNESS: -- is that that construction 9:55:52AM
`11 is too broad, and by being it's inconsistent because
`12 it defines the state in the way that -- that would
`13 not work in the cache coherency protocol, and as I
`14 wrote from the perspective of the one of the
`15 ordinary skill in the art, informed by the 9:56:19AM
`16 specification and teachings of the patent, they
`17 divorce the term "state" from the well understood
`18 meaning of what "state" means in the field of cache
`19 coherency, teaching of '121 patent and what is
`20 necessary in order -- order to build a cache 9:56:46AM
`21 coherent system.
`22 BY MR. BILLAH:
`23 Q Can you look at Exhibit 11. You should
`24 have it in that stack there.
`25 A Sure. 9:56:58AM
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`1 Q Exhibit 11 is a copy of U.S. Patent Number 9:57:39AM
`2 7,698,509; is that correct?
`3 A That is correct.
`4 Q And like counsel yesterday, I'll be
`5 referring to this document as Koster. 9:57:49AM
`6 Do you understand that?
`7 A I understand that.
`8 Q Okay.
`9 And we just talked about what the Board's
`10 definition of "state" is, correct? 9:57:56AM
`11 MR. SAUNDERS: Objection; form.
`12 THE WITNESS: That's correct.
`13 BY MR. BILLAH:
`14 Q Okay.
`15 Under the Board's construction of "state," 9:58:01AM
`16 does Koster disclose states?
`17 MR. SAUNDERS: Objection; form,
`18 foundation.
`19 THE WITNESS: I have to look through the
`20 patent. 9:58:19AM
`21 BY MR. BILLAH:
`22 Q Okay. Take your time.
`23 A I -- I know that Koster mentions "state"
`24 in the Claim 5. Now, under the Board construction
`25 of the "state", that is -- and the Board definition 9:58:54AM
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`1 was in -- in my declaration. 10:00:33AM
`2 Q Yes. What we looked at before was
`3 paragraph 13.
`4 A Oh, yeah, which is the one I have in front
`5 of me. Well, I -- I -- I have answered that 10:00:49AM
`6 question, I think, in paragraph 48.
`7 "In my opinion, the condition
`8 of presence is not the cache
`9 coherency state for the reasons I
`10 explained above in my discussion of 10:01:32AM
`11 the proper interpretation of
`12 'states.'"
`13 At the beginning of 48, it says:
`14 "I understand the Board has
`15 described such information as 10:01:44AM
`16 reflecting the 'condition of
`17 presence.' Koster Institution
`18 Decision at 12. This can also be
`19 referred to as to 'presence
`20 information' or 'occupancy 10:02:00AM
`21 information.' Presence information
`22 or occupancy information is a
`23 concept in cache coherency that
`24 refers to information that
`25 indicates which nodes in a system 10:02:10AM
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`1 Mi