In The Matter Of:
`
`Wintek Corporation v.
`
`TPK Touch Solutions, Inc.
`
`Tsung Liang (Ted) Tsai
`
`September I 9, 2014
`
`Original File 24784Tsai.txt
`
`Behmke Reporting and Video Services, Inc.
`
`160 Spear Street, Suite 300
`
`San Francisco, California 94103
`
`(415) 597-5600
`
`Page 1 of 22
`
`Wintek Exhibit 1040
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`|PR2013-00568
`
`

`

`Wintek Corporation v.
`TPK Touch Solutions, Inc.
`
`Page 1
` 1 UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
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` 2 BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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` 3
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` 4
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` 5 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - )
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` 6 WINTEK CORPORATION, )
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` 7 Petitioner, )
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` 8 ) CASE NO.
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` 9 V. ) IPR2013-00567;
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`10 ) IPR2013-00568;
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`11 TPK TOUCH SOLUTIONS, INC., ) IPR2013-0541
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`12 Patent Owner. )
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`13 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - )
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`14
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`15
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`16
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`17 DEPOSITION OF TSUNG LIANG (TED) TSAI
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`18 FRIDAY, SEPTEMBER 19, 2014
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`19
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`20
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`21 BEHMKE REPORTING AND VIDEO SERVICES, INC.
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`22 BY: TERRI A. HOURIGAN, CSR NO. 3838
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`23 160 SPEAR STREET, SUITE 300
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`24 SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 94105
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`25 (415) 597-5600
`
`Tsung Liang (Ted) Tsai
`September 19, 2014
`Page 3
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` 1 APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL:
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` 2 FOR PETITIONER: WINTEK CORPORATION
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` 3 PAUL HASTINGS, LLP
`
` 4 BY: JOSEPH E. PALYS, ATTORNEY AT LAW
`
` 5 875 15th Street, N.W.
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` 6 Washington, D.C. 20005
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` 7 Telephone: (202) 551-1996
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` 8 Email: josephpalys@paulhastings.com
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` 9
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`10 FOR PATENT OWNER: TPK TOUCH SOLUTIONS, INC.,
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`11 QUINN EMANUEL URQUHART & SULLIVAN
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`12 BY: DEREK J. TANG, ATTORNEY AT LAW
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`13 50 California Street, 22nd Floor
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`14 San Francisco, California 94111
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`15 Telephone: (415) 875-6410
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`16 Email: derektang@quinnemanuel.com
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`17
`
`18 ALSO PRESENT:
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`19 HUANYI LIN, IN-HOUSE COUNSEL FOR TPK.
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`20 YONGMEI LIU, INTERPRETER
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`21 MIMI S. J. LAIN, INTERPRETER
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`22
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`23
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`24
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`25
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`Page 2
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`Page 4
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` 1
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` 8 Deposition of TSUNG LIANG (TED) TSAI, taken on
` 9 behalf of WINTEK CORPORATION, PETITIONER, at Law Offices
`10 of Quinn Emanuel Urquhart & Sullivan, 50 California
`11 Street, 22nd Floor, San Francisco, California,
`12 commencing at 10:19 A.M., FRIDAY, SEPTEMBER 19, 2014,
`13 before Terri A. Hourigan, Certified Shorthand Reporter
`14 No. 3838, pursuant to Notice of Deposition.
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
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` 1 INDEX
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` 2 FRIDAY, SEPTEMBER 19, 2014
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` 3 TSUNG LIANG (TED) TSAI Page
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` 4 Examination by MR. PALYS 6
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` 5
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` 6 -o0o-
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` 7
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` 8 QUESTIONS WITNESS INSTRUCTED NOT TO ANSWER:
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` 9 PAGE LINE
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`10 None.
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`11
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`12
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`13
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`14
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`15
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`BEHMKE REPORTING AND VIDEO SERVICES, INC.
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`Page 2 of 22
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`Wintek Exhibit 1040
`IPR2013-00568
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`

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`Wintek Corporation v.
`TPK Touch Solutions, Inc.
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`Page 5
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` 1 EXHIBITS
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` 2 TSUNG LIANG (TED) TSAI
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` 3 Number Description Page
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` 4 Exhibit 1025 Handwritten note - 1 page 14
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` 5
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` 6
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` 7
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` 8
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` 9
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`10
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`11
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`12
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`15
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`24
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`25
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`Tsung Liang (Ted) Tsai
`September 19, 2014
`Page 7
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` 1 So Derek, as TPK's counsel, I just want to make
` 2 sure that is accurate.
` 3 MR. TANG: Yes, that's accurate. Thank you.
` 4 BY MR. PALYS:
` 5 Q. Derek, just to make sure the record is clear, I
` 6 want to give you an opportunity to explain whether in
` 7 fact TPK's counsel did in fact schedule a reporter from
` 8 TSG; is that true?
` 9 MR. TANG: We will look into this. It was our
`10 understanding that we had. We will look into it.
`11 MR. PALYS: With that, we can begin.
`12 Good morning, sir.
`13 THE WITNESS: Good morning.
`14 BY MR. PALYS:
`15 Q. Can you please state your name?
`16 A. Tsung Liang Tsai.
`17 Q. Are you also known as Ted Tsai?
`18 A. Yes.
`19 Q. And Mr. Tsai, did you provide a declaration for
`20 the IPR proceedings involving TPK's patent?
`21 A. Yes.
`22 Q. And by TPK's patent, I mean, sir, US Patent
`23 No. 8217902.
`24 Do you understand?
`25 A. Yes.
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`Page 6
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`Page 8
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` 1 FRIDAY, SEPTEMBER 19, 2014; 10:19 A.M.
` 2 TSUNG LIANG (TED) TSAI
` 3 having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:
` 4
` 5 EXAMINATION
` 6 BY MR. PALYS:
` 7 Q. All right. This is Joseph Palys. For the
` 8 record, this is the deposition of Mr. Ted Tsai. This is
` 9 in regards to IPR 2013-567, IPR 2013-00541, and
`10 IPR 2013-00568.
`11 Before we get into this, I want to put some
`12 information on the record. It's approximately 10:20 in
`13 the morning Pacific Time which is almost one and a half
`14 hours after the scheduled start time of the deposition
`15 at nine o'clock.
`16 My understanding is that the delay was caused
`17 because no court reporter had arrived this morning at
`18 nine o'clock to begin recording.
`19 I understand from TPK counsel they had
`20 scheduled a reporter from TSG Reporting agency but the
`21 reporter did not arrive or that it was possible the
`22 agency did not have this deposition on its schedule.
`23 The court reporter who arrived this morning is
`24 from Behme Reporting who informed us that she was called
`25 in this morning as an emergency.
`
` 1 MR. PALYS: I'm handing the witness a document
` 2 previously marked TPK Exhibit 2017.
` 3 THE WITNESS: Yes.
` 4 BY MR. PALYS:
` 5 Q. And Exhibit 2017 is for IPR 2013-00568; is that
` 6 right, sir?
` 7 A. 2013-00568, yes.
` 8 Q. Mr. Tsai, if you could please turn to page 6,
` 9 of Exhibit 2017.
`10 A. Yes.
`11 Q. Thank you. Can you please confirm that that is
`12 your signature on page 6?
`13 A. I signed it, yes.
`14 Q. So Exhibit 2017 is your declaration, correct,
`15 sir?
`16 A. Yes.
`17 Q. I want to just clarify for the record, too,
`18 sir, is it true you can read and write English?
`19 A. Yes. Yes, I have that ability.
`20 Q. And do you understand English as it's being
`21 spoken in some form?
`22 A. Yes. But my ability is concentrated in the
`23 business language used in my particular area.
`24 Q. Is it fair to say that Mandarin is your native
`25 tongue?
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`BEHMKE REPORTING AND VIDEO SERVICES, INC.
`(415) 597-5600
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`Wintek Exhibit 1040
`IPR2013-00568
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`

`

`Wintek Corporation v.
`TPK Touch Solutions, Inc.
`
`Page 9
`
`Tsung Liang (Ted) Tsai
`September 19, 2014
`Page 11
`
` 1 A. Yes. No problem.
` 2 Q. Sir, did you sign or -- start over.
` 3 Mr. Tsai, did you prepare one declaration for
` 4 the IPR matters involving US Patent No. 8217902?
` 5 A. May I ask you, when you say "declaration" are
` 6 you referring to this one?
` 7 Q. Yes. So this Exhibit 2017 is your declaration,
` 8 correct?
` 9 A. Yes.
`10 Q. Did you prepare another declaration other than
`11 what is before you?
`12 A. I had another declaration, but I have another
`13 declaration.
`14 Q. Okay. Is that other declaration relating to
`15 these IPR matters?
`16 A. Because some legalese has been used, so I'm not
`17 very clear on that but I know that the other declaration
`18 is also related to our patent.
`19 Q. Was the other declaration prepared for IPR
`20 2013-00567?
`21 A. To my knowledge, I'm here to answer questions
`22 directed to this declaration but you keep asking about
`23 the other declaration.
`24 It's difficult for me to answer because I have
`25 not prepared myself for that declaration.
`
` 1 the litigation involving TPK and Wintek?
` 2 A. Yes, but I still need to clarify. I'm here to
` 3 answer questions and clarify about this declaration.
` 4 Q. I understand. I was just asking, please
` 5 confirm that the other declaration is a declaration you
` 6 submitted in the litigation involving TPK and Wintek.
` 7 THE INTERPRETER LAIN: May the interpreter clarify.
` 8 The interpreter has used the word "submitted" in the
` 9 litigation Wintek and TPK.
`10 Would you like to clarify the interpretation
`11 based on the question asked?
`12 THE INTERPRETER LIU: The question did use the word
`13 "submit."
`14 I stand by my interpretation. May I have the
`15 question repeated?
`16 (Record read back.)
`17 THE WITNESS: Yes.
`18 BY MR. PALYS:
`19 Q. Sir, did you prepare the declaration yourself
`20 for Exhibit 2017?
`21 A. This document was prepared by me along with the
`22 legal department and my own team. They followed my
`23 instructions. They followed what I meant to say.
`24 Q. Can you please identify the names of the people
`25 that helped you prepare this declaration?
`
`Page 10
`
`Page 12
`
` 1 Q. Okay. So, sir, I'm just trying to understand
` 2 you have one declaration here for IPR matter 568,
` 3 correct?
` 4 THE INTERPRETER LAIN: Interpreter correction.
` 5 THE INTERPRETER LIU: So I stand by my
` 6 interpretation.
` 7 BY MR. PALYS:
` 8 Q. Are we good? And the answer?
` 9 A. I prepared this -- are you still asking about
`10 the previous declaration? The other declaration?
`11 Q. Yes.
`12 A. The other declaration. So I truly do not
`13 understand your question.
`14 Q. Let me help. You understand that your
`15 declaration in Exhibit 2017 relates to an inter-party's
`16 review of TPK's 902 Patent, correct, sir?
`17 A. Yes.
`18 Q. Is your declaration in Exhibit 2017, does that
`19 pertain to both the 568 IPR matter and the 567 IPR
`20 matter?
`21 A. Yes, yes.
`22 Q. Okay. Thank you. This other declaration you
`23 brought up that does not pertain to the -- well strike
`24 all of that.
`25 Is the other declaration you refer to relate to
`
` 1 MR. TANG: Objection. I would like to tell the
` 2 witness he can answer the question and identify the
` 3 people.
` 4 He should not reveal the subject of any
` 5 privileged communications.
` 6 THE WITNESS: People in the legal department who
` 7 prepared this document with me are Huanyi Lin.
` 8 MR. PALYS: Can you please provide a spelling of the
` 9 names?
`10 THE WITNESS: May I write down the Chinese
`11 characters?
`12 MR. PALYS: Sure.
`13 THE WITNESS: It's the gentleman that is sitting
`14 here with me, and here is his business card.
`15 MR. PALYS: Can you read the name, please?
`16 THE INTERPRETER LIU: Interpreter speaking.
`17 H-u-a-n-y-i, L-i-n.
`18 BY MR. PALYS:
`19 Q. Anyone else?
`20 A. Sophia Kuo, K-u-o, last name.
`21 Q. Is Sophie Kuo an attorney?
`22 A. Legal department personnel.
`23 Q. Anyone else, sir?
`24 A. Justin Yew, Y-e-w, last name.
`25 Q. Is Justin an attorney, sir?
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`BEHMKE REPORTING AND VIDEO SERVICES, INC.
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`Wintek Exhibit 1040
`IPR2013-00568
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`

`

`Wintek Corporation v.
`TPK Touch Solutions, Inc.
`
`Page 13
`
`Tsung Liang (Ted) Tsai
`September 19, 2014
`Page 15
`
` 1 A. No. He is a member of my own department.
` 2 Justin Tang, T-a-n-g, last name.
` 3 So the last two people are people within my
` 4 department and the first two are with the legal
` 5 department.
` 6 Q. Anyone else, sir?
` 7 A. No.
` 8 Q. Did anyone from Quinn Emanuel assist you with
` 9 this declaration?
`10 A. As far as I know I prepared the declaration
`11 with the people that I have just mentioned, but the
`12 attorneys may have had discussions with those people.
`13 Q. So these four people are the only people you
`14 communicated with in preparing your declaration; is that
`15 correct?
`16 A. Yes.
`17 Q. No telephone calls with anyone else?
`18 A. For the purpose of preparing this declaration?
`19 No.
`20 MR. PALYS: I'm going to mark the page that Mr. Tsai
`21 has just identified that list the names of people he
`22 said assisted him with the preparation of his
`23 declaration in these three IPR matters as Wintek's
`24 Exhibit 2025.
`25 (Wintek's Exhibit 1025 was marked for
`
` 1 declaration so that I can be more sure?
` 2 Q. Do you have a copy of it?
` 3 A. Not here today, no.
` 4 Q. So you would need to see that other declaration
` 5 in order to answer that question; is that right?
` 6 MR. TANG: Object to form.
` 7 THE WITNESS: I believe so.
` 8 BY MR. PALYS:
` 9 Q. Did that other declaration relate to TPK's 902
`10 Patent?
`11 MR. TANG: Objection to the scope.
`12 THE WITNESS: First, as I said earlier the other
`13 declaration is also related to the patent.
`14 Second, I have to emphasize, again, all I have
`15 done to prepare for this deposition is related to this
`16 declaration.
`17 I'm a busy person, it's impossible for me to
`18 keep reviewing the other document, but you have been
`19 going back to this other declaration again and again. I
`20 don't think that is fair.
`21 BY MR. PALYS:
`22 Q. Okay. Have you prepared any other declarations
`23 other than the two that we talked about?
`24 A. No.
`25 Q. Have you ever testified in court involving a
`
`Page 14
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`Page 16
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` 1 identification by the court reporter.)
` 2 THE INTERPRETER LAIN: May the interpreter clarify?
` 3 It is actually 1025 rather than 2025.
` 4 BY MR. PALYS:
` 5 Q. Mr. Tsai, have you ever been deposed before
` 6 today?
` 7 A. Two weeks ago. I was scheduled to do a
` 8 deposition like this but it was canceled so today is the
` 9 first time.
`10 Q. You mentioned you provided a declaration --
`11 another declaration in the litigation involving TPK and
`12 Wintek, correct?
`13 A. Are you referring to this one?
`14 Q. No. I am just confirming, you have another
`15 declaration you submitted in the litigation involving
`16 TPK and Wintek; isn't that right?
`17 A. Yes. There was another declaration in addition
`18 to this one.
`19 Q. And is there anything in that other declaration
`20 you submitted that would be considered inconsistent with
`21 any of the statements you made in Exhibit 2017?
`22 A. I don't think so.
`23 Q. And was that another declaration you submitted
`24 was that signed under oath?
`25 A. Can I take another look at the other
`
` 1 litigation?
` 2 A. No.
` 3 Q. Sir, I would like to ask you a little bit about
` 4 your background, okay?
` 5 A. No problem.
` 6 Q. Do you have a university degree?
` 7 A. Yes.
` 8 Q. What is that degree in?
` 9 A. Mechanical engineering.
`10 Q. And where did you get that degree at?
`11 A. Feng Chia University in Taiwan.
`12 Q. Can you spell that, please?
`13 A. You are testing my English.
`14 Q. I understand. The best of your ability. It's
`15 for the court reporter.
`16 A. If I can use my phone I can look it up so I
`17 won't give you a wrong answer.
`18 Q. If you are happy to, yes.
`19 Here we go, thank you. Is that the name of the
`20 university?
`21 A. Correct.
`22 Q. It is F-e-n-g C-h-i-a University.
`23 A. Yes, correct.
`24 MR. TANG: One E.
`25 MR. PALYS: Yeah, one E.
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`Wintek Exhibit 1040
`IPR2013-00568
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`

`

`Wintek Corporation v.
`TPK Touch Solutions, Inc.
`
`Page 17
`
`Tsung Liang (Ted) Tsai
`September 19, 2014
`Page 19
`
` 1 BY MR. PALYS:
` 2 Q. Sir, if you turn to page 1 of your declaration,
` 3 please.
` 4 A. Okay.
` 5 Q. In paragraph 2, you identify you are Senior
` 6 Vice President and Chief Sales Officer in the Sales and
` 7 Marketing Department of TPK Touch Solutions
` 8 Incorporated; is that correct?
` 9 A. Yes.
`10 Q. And is it also true you have held that position
`11 as Senior Vice President and Chief Sales Officer since
`12 2006?
`13 A. Yes.
`14 Q. When did you first begin working for TPK?
`15 A. 2006.
`16 Q. Do you remember what month in 2006?
`17 A. November.
`18 Q. When you started in 2006, were you hired as the
`19 Senior Vice President and Chief Sales Officer?
`20 A. Yes. At that time I was -- I started as Chief
`21 Sales Officer.
`22 Q. And you have had this same position since 2006,
`23 until today, correct?
`24 A. Yes.
`25 Q. Sir, where did you -- well, let's start over.
`
` 1 A. Yes, correct.
` 2 Q. Was that your first job out of college, after
` 3 you left college?
` 4 A. Yes. Yes, my first job after college was with
` 5 Cheng Feng.
` 6 Q. When did you graduate from college?
` 7 A. Good question. Are you asking when I graduated
` 8 from college?
` 9 Q. Yes.
`10 A. 1990, I believe.
`11 Q. And in 1990, is that when you started working
`12 for Cheng Feng?
`13 A. I graduated in 1990, but after that I served
`14 two years in the military.
`15 Q. So what year did you start working for Cheng
`16 Feng?
`17 A. If I did the backward computation correctly
`18 then it should be 1992.
`19 Q. How -- when did you start working for Green
`20 Point?
`21 A. 2000.
`22 Q. What type of work did you do for Cheng Feng?
`23 A. I did mechanical design at Cheng Feng.
`24 Q. Mechanical design of what?
`25 A. Automated equipment.
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`Page 18
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`Page 20
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` 1 Did you have employment elsewhere before you
` 2 joined TPK?
` 3 A. Yes.
` 4 Q. Where did you work?
` 5 A. In Taiwan.
` 6 Q. For what company?
` 7 A. My first job was doing mechanical design. My
` 8 second job was with Green Point. I did sales and
` 9 project management.
`10 THE INTERPRETER LAIN: Interpreter would like to add
`11 to the first part of the testimony. The first job was
`12 working for the company by the name of Cheng Feng.
`13 MR. PALYS: Can you spell that?
`14 THE WITNESS: C-h-e-n-g, F-e-n-g. Two words.
`15 BY MR. PALYS:
`16 Q. Okay. Just to make sure the record is clear
`17 your first job was working with a company called Cheng
`18 Feng?
`19 A. Yes, Cheng Feng. My second company -- the
`20 second company that I worked for is Green Point.
`21 Q. And after Green Point did you then go to work
`22 for TPK?
`23 A. Yes.
`24 Q. When you said your first job was with Cheng
`25 Feng -- did I pronounce that right?
`
` 1 THE INTERPRETER LAIN: Automation equipment.
` 2 BY MR. PALYS:
` 3 Q. Can you please provide me a little more detail?
` 4 What do you mean by "automation equipment," what type of
` 5 equipment?
` 6 A. Automation equipment used in shoe
` 7 manufacturing.
` 8 Q. What type of work did you do for Green Point?
` 9 A. At Green Point I did sales and project
`10 management.
`11 Q. At Green Point what type of products did you
`12 provide sales and project management activities for?
`13 A. Plastic parts.
`14 Q. Plastic parts for what?
`15 A. Mainly for cell phones.
`16 Q. Would it be the outer shells of the cell phone?
`17 A. Yes, the outer shells. Also structural parts.
`18 THE INTERPRETER LAIN: Mechanical parts.
`19 THE WITNESS: Mechanical parts.
`20 BY MR. PALYS:
`21 Q. Have you ever worked with any touch panel
`22 products prior to you joining TPK in 2006?
`23 A. At Green Point I did work that was related to
`24 touch products.
`25 Q. How was that work related to touch products?
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`Wintek Exhibit 1040
`IPR2013-00568
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`

`

`Wintek Corporation v.
`TPK Touch Solutions, Inc.
`
`Page 21
`
`Tsung Liang (Ted) Tsai
`September 19, 2014
`Page 23
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` 1 A. At Green Point, the company made plastic parts
` 2 for the cover and those parts would be adjacent to touch
` 3 screens, so that's related.
` 4 THE INTERPRETER LAIN: May the interpreter clarify
` 5 that. When I was at Green Point we did products such as
` 6 cover plastic which is bonded to the touch sensor;
` 7 therefore, they were related.
` 8 THE INTERPRETER LIU: I agree. Thank you.
` 9 BY MR. PALYS:
`10 Q. Is that the only way the work you did at Green
`11 Point related to touch sensors?
`12 A. Yes.
`13 Q. In paragraph 3, of your declaration, sir, you
`14 state that TPK began manufacturing projected capacitive
`15 touch panels in 2006, correct?
`16 A. Yes.
`17 Q. When in 2006, did TPK began manufacturing
`18 projected capacitive touch panels?
`19 A. I joined the company in November, 2006. So by
`20 the time I joined, the company had already begun making
`21 it, those products.
`22 Q. In paragraph 4, you mention that there was a
`23 significant increase in demand for transparent
`24 lightweight touch screens that are capable of detecting
`25 multiple touches and that was in the 2000s; is that
`
` 1 MR. PALYS: Back on the record.
` 2 BY MR. PALYS:
` 3 Q. Mr. Tsai, what did you do to prepare for your
` 4 deposition today?
` 5 A. Last time when I came here I did a rehearsal
` 6 and also yesterday I did another rehearsal with Derek
` 7 and the interpreter.
` 8 Q. Did you meet with anyone else other than Derek
` 9 and the interpreter in preparation for your deposition
`10 today?
`11 A. Earlier.
`12 THE INTERPRETER LIU: This is the interpreter
`13 speaking. In his earlier answer when the answer says
`14 interpreter, he actually meant the other gentleman in
`15 the room. His name sounds similar to interpreted in
`16 Chinese. Let me clarify what he said.
`17 THE WITNESS: So at yesterday's rehearsal there was
`18 me, Derek, the attorney, and Attorney Huanyi Lin, and
`19 the other interpreter.
`20 BY MR. PALYS:
`21 Q. Did you meet with anyone else other than those
`22 people you identified?
`23 A. No.
`24 Q. When, in preparation for the deposition that
`25 was to take place on August 27th who did you meet with
`
`Page 22
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`Page 24
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` 1 correct?
` 2 A. To my understanding, yes.
` 3 Q. What is your basis for your understanding for
` 4 that statement?
` 5 A. At that time it was known that Apple was
` 6 beginning to make touch products like that, and my
` 7 belief is that touch products are the most direct and
` 8 best input device.
` 9 THE INTERPRETER LAIN: As an interface.
`10 THE INTERPRETER LIU: Yeah, as an interface.
`11 BY MR. PALYS:
`12 Q. When you made the statement in relation -- well
`13 let me start over.
`14 In paragraph 4, your statement in relation to
`15 the 2000s, does that include the years from 2000, to
`16 2005?
`17 A. Mainly the year 2006, and another technology
`18 was used in the years before 2006.
`19 Let me explain. In 2006, this technology had
`20 solidified because it was used for multi-touch and
`21 multi-touch technology would be the main technology for
`22 the future.
`23 MR. PALYS: Let's take a break for a second.
`24 Off the record.
`25 (Brief recess.)
`
` 1 to prepare for that deposition?
` 2 A. You mean the deposition that was scheduled
` 3 previously?
` 4 Q. Yes.
` 5 A. Last time there was Derek Tang, Huanyi Lin,
` 6 Sophie Kuo, who I mentioned earlier, and also another
` 7 interpreter, and then with me. That is five people.
` 8 Q. Did you meet with anyone else other than those
` 9 people you identified in preparation for the deposition
`10 that was scheduled for August 27th?
`11 A. No.
`12 Q. Sir, do you remember being in a room with a
`13 gentleman named Nihat Bayramoglu?
`14 A. Okay. When we were having our discussions
`15 there were only the five people that I mentioned.
`16 People from the law firm may have come in and said,
`17 "hello," but I don't remember their names.
`18 Q. Have you ever met Nihat Bayramoglu?
`19 A. I apologize. This happened two weeks ago so I
`20 forgot. So yes, he was there and there was another TPK
`21 person.
`22 Q. Who was that other TPK person?
`23 A. I believe it's Nihat but I'm not very familiar
`24 with this person. Let me think about how to answer this
`25 question.
`
`Min-U-Script®
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`BEHMKE REPORTING AND VIDEO SERVICES, INC.
`(415) 597-5600
`
`(6) Pages 21 - 24
`
`Page 7 of 22
`
`Wintek Exhibit 1040
`IPR2013-00568
`
`

`

`Wintek Corporation v.
`TPK Touch Solutions, Inc.
`
`Page 25
`
`Tsung Liang (Ted) Tsai
`September 19, 2014
`Page 27
`
` 1 I think that's the person you are referring to
` 2 but I'm not very familiar with the person. That's why I
` 3 forgot to mention him.
` 4 Q. Did you meet with a Gokalp Bayramoglu?
` 5 A. Who is he with? What company?
` 6 Q. You don't know who Gokalp Bayramoglu is?
` 7 A. I really don't remember. Also, we Asians don't
` 8 remember English names very easily.
` 9 Q. So at this time you can't recall if you ever
`10 met Mr. Gokalp Bayramoglu?
`11 A. I really don't remember.
`12 Q. You don't know who Mr. Gokalp Bayramoglu is; is
`13 that right?
`14 MR. TANG: Objection to form.
`15 THE WITNESS: I don't remember. I don't remember.
`16 BY MR. PALYS:
`17 Q. In paragraph 5, of your declaration, sir, you
`18 say that the Apple iPhone that was released in 2007, was
`19 a prominent example of a device with a transparent touch
`20 screen that included multi-touch capabilities, correct?
`21 A. Yes.
`22 Q. What did you mean by prominent example?
`23 A. Because it was our first capacitive touch
`24 product, so it was very important.
`25 Q. What is your basis for saying that Apple's
`
` 1 discussing is referring to TPK's products, that is why
` 2 I'm confused.
` 3 A. Let me say it again. Let me clarify it's
` 4 importance in more general terms.
` 5 First, this product is a very important product
` 6 for us because it was the first product that TPK made.
` 7 Second, this product also was a very important
` 8 product in the market because it had multi-touch
` 9 capabilities. Also, it was a fully transparent touch
`10 screen.
`11 Q. So --
`12 A. With this clarification are you more clear on
`13 this?
`14 Q. I think so, so let me help us.
`15 Is it your testimony that TPK was providing the
`16 touch panel products that were used in the iPhone that
`17 was released in 2007?
`18 A. Yes. We were one of the suppliers.
`19 MR. PALYS: I'm handing the witness a copy of
`20 document previously marked Exhibit TPK 2018.
`21 THE WITNESS: Yes.
`22 BY MR. PALYS:
`23 Q. Sir, TPK 2018, the copy that you have in front
`24 of you was labeled for IPR 2013-00568, correct?
`25 A. Yes.
`
`Page 26
`
`Page 28
`
` 1 iPhone was the first capacitive touch product?
` 2 MR. TANG: Objection to the form.
` 3 THE WITNESS: I didn't say that. What I said was it
` 4 was the first multi-point touch capacitive touch product
` 5 that TPK made.
` 6 THE INTERPRETER LAIN: May the interpreter clarify.
` 7 What I was saying was that the first product of
` 8 multi-touch touch product made by TPK, that is why I
` 9 said it's important.
`10 THE INTERPRETER LIU: I agree.
`11 BY MR. PALYS:
`12 Q. So, sir, your statement in paragraph 5, where
`13 it says the iPhone was a prominent example of a device
`14 with a transparent touch screen that included
`15 multi-touch capabilities, is it your testimony that you
`16 are saying that prominent example means that it was a
`17 TPK product?
`18 A. To TPK this was a very important product
`19 because it was our first product.
`20 Q. So I'm confused, I'm sorry, sir. I'm sorry.
`21 A. No problem.
`22 Q. Paragraph 5 is talking about an iPhone from
`23 Apple, correct?
`24 A. Right. It talks about Apple iPhones.
`25 Q. Is it your testimony what we were just
`
` 1 Q. Is TPK 2018 the same Exhibit TPK 2018 you
` 2 submitted for the other IPR proceeding, IPR 2013-00567?
` 3 A. This is related to this document.
` 4 Q. So in paragraph 6 --
` 5 THE INTERPRETER LAIN: May the interpreter clarify.
` 6 That was a question, are you saying that this exhibit
` 7 relates to the previous one, 2016.
` 8 THE WITNESS: TPK 2018 explains what is in paragraph
` 9 6 of the declaration.
`10 BY MR. PALYS:
`11 Q. Did you provide Exhibit TPK 2018 for use with
`12 your declaration?
`13 A. Yes.
`14 Q. So you found this document yourself?
`15 A. I did. I found it with my teams including the
`16 legal team that I mentioned earlier.
`17 Q. How did you find this document?
`18 MR. TANG: Objection. Calls for privilege.
`19 MR. PALYS: Are you instructing him not to answer on
`20 that question?
`21 MR. TANG: Yes. I think the witness found it along
`22 with the legal team, is what I thought.
`23 MR. PALYS: There are other people that were
`24 non-legal.
`25 Sir, let me ask you this: Who helped you find
`
`Min-U-Script®
`
`BEHMKE REPORTING AND VIDEO SERVICES, INC.
`(415) 597-5600
`
`(7) Pages 25 - 28
`
`Page 8 of 22
`
`Wintek Exhibit 1040
`IPR2013-00568
`
`

`

`Wintek Corporation v.
`TPK Touch Solutions, Inc.
`
`Page 29
`
`Tsung Liang (Ted) Tsai
`September 19, 2014
`Page 31
`
` 1 this document?
` 2 THE WITNESS: I mentioned four names to you, two
` 3 with the legal department, and two within my own team.
` 4 BY MR. PALYS:
` 5 Q. So all four of these people in Exhibit 1025
` 6 that you identified helped you find Exhibit 2018?
` 7 A. Yes.
` 8 Q. So, sir, did you personally locate this
` 9 document or was this document given to you?
`10 A. The team or teams provided it to me.
`11 Q. Did you review this document?
`12 A. Yes.
`13 Q. When was this document given to you?
`14 MR. TANG: Objection. Calls for privilege.
`15 MR. PALYS: Hold on. Are you instructing the
`16 witness not to answer a question about a date under
`17 privilege? I just need an answer.
`18 MR. TANG: To the extent we're talking about
`19 communications to them that contain a particular
`20 substance that you are asking about.
`21 MR. PALYS: The date?
`22 MR. TANG: No, but you are asking about the date the
`23 substance is indicated.
`24 MR. PALYS: So my question to the witness is when
`25 was this document provided to him.
`
` 1 locate that paragraph, sir? The one above that, okay.
` 2 In the fifth paragraph it says: "In Taiwan our
` 3 top pick is TPK."
` 4 Do you see that?
` 5 A. Yes.
` 6 Q. It continues with, "which we expect to remain
` 7 the major touch panel/lamination supplier for Apple."
` 8 Correct?
` 9 A. Yes.
`10 Q. So in March of 2012, TPK was still providing
`11 touch panels to Apple, correct?
`12 A. Yes.
`13 Q. So TPK provided touch panels to Apple from 2007
`14 to 2012?
`15 MR. TANG: Objection. Form.
`16 THE WITNESS: We have been continuously providing
`17 touch panels to Apple from 20