Page 246
`
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - )
`ZYNGA, INC., ) VOL. II
` Petitioner, ) Case Nos.:
`vs. ) IPR2013-00162
` ) IPR2013-00164
`PERSONALIZED MEDIA )
`COMMUNICATIONS, LLC, )
` Patent Owner. )
`- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - )
`
` CONTINUED DEPOSITION OF SAMUEL H. RUSS, PHD
` Washington, DC
` Thursday, December 20, 2013
`
`Reported by:
`Kim M. Brantley, CSR
`Job No: 68999
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`1 2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`
`
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - )
`ZYNGA, INC., ) VOL. II
` Petitioner, ) Case Nos.:
`vs. ) IPR2013-00162
` ) IPR2013-00164
`PERSONALIZED MEDIA )
`COMMUNICATIONS, LLC, )
` Patent Owner. )
`- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - )
`
` CONTINUED DEPOSITION OF SAMUEL H. RUSS, PHD
` Washington, DC
` Thursday, December 20, 2013
`
`Reported by:
`Kim M. Brantley, CSR
`Job No: 68999
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`1 2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`
`
`Page 247
`
` December 20, 2013
` Time: 9:04 a.m.
`
`Continued Deposition of SAMUEL H. RUSS, PHD, held
`at the offices of Goodwin Procter, LLP, 901 New
`York Avenue, NW, Washington, DC, before Kim M.
`Brantley, Court Reporter and Notary Public of the
`District of Columbia.
`
`1 2 3 4 5
`
`6
`
`7 8 9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
` RUSS
`
`APPEARANCES:
`
`Page 248
`
` On behalf of the Petitioner Zynga Inc.:
` LOUIS TOUTON, ESQUIRE
` Jones Day
` 555 South Flower Street
` Los Angeles, California 90071
`
` On behalf of the Patent Owner:
` STEPHEN SCHREINER, ESQUIRE
` Goodwin Procter
` 901 New York Avenue, N.W.
` Washington, D.C. 20001
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`1
`
`2 3
`
`4 5 6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`
`
`Page 249
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` RUSS
` P R O C E E D I N G S
` S A M U E L H. R U S S, PhD.
`called as a witness by Counsel for the Petitioner,
`and, after having first been duly sworn by the
`Notary Public, was further examined and testified
`as follows:
` MR. TOUTON: I'm going to have a bunch
`of stuff premarked. Just put a B after everything
`and you'll be fine.
` (Seven One Seven patent was marked
`Exhibit 1001B, for identification.)
` (Three Five Nine patent was marked
`Exhibit 1008B, for identification.)
` (O Five Four patent was marked Exhibit
`1009B, for identification.)
` (Two O Six patent was marked Exhibit
`1010B, for identification.)
` (O Four One patent was marked Exhibit
`1011B, for identification.)
` (One Six Four patent was marked Exhibit
`2019B, for identification.)
` (Dictionary entry was marked Exhibit
`2026B, for identification.)
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 250
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` RUSS
` EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR THE PETITIONER:
` BY MR. TOUTON:
` Q. Good morning, Dr. Russ.
` A. Good morning.
` MR. TOUTON: Let me note for the record
`that the following exhibits have been marked by
`the court reporter for today's deposition...
` There is 1001B, which is a copy of U.S.
`Patent Seven Seven Nine Seven Seven One Seven.
` There is Exhibit 1008B, which is a copy
`of U.S. Patent Four Five Six Seven Three Five
`Nine.
` There is Exhibit 1009B, which is a copy
`of U.S. Patent Four Eight Eight Two Five O Four
`Five.
` There's Exhibit 1010B, which is a copy
`of the Four Two O Four Two O Six patent.
` There is Exhibit 1011B, which is a copy
`of Patent Four Six Seven Four O Four One.
` There is Exhibit 2019B, which is a copy
`of Dr. Russ' declaration filed in IPR Two O One
`Three Zero Zero One Six Four.
` And there is Deposition Exhibit 2026B,
`which is a copy of an exhibit submitted in that
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 251
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` RUSS
`same IPR proceeding that appears to be part of a
`dictionary.
`BY MR. TOUTON:
` Q. Dr. Russ, referring to your
`declaration, which is Exhibit 2019B, and
`specifically beginning on Page 24, you have a
`discussion in Paragraph 52 regarding the
`construction of the term "receiver station".
` A. Yes.
` Q. Is the term "receiver station"
`specifically recited in the Seven One Seven
`specification?
` A. Well, it's recited in Claim One of the
`Seven One Seven patent.
` Q. Is it anywhere in the specification
`portion of the patent, though?
` A. I don't know.
` Q. You're not relying on any specific use
`of the term, or specific definition of the term
`"receiver station" in the specification, are you?
` A. I'm relying on the presence of
`subscriber stations or terminals in the Seven One
`Seven patent to offer insight into how the term is
`to be used.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 252
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` RUSS
` Q. Now, you mentioned the phrase
`"subscriber station". That's different than
`receiver station, isn't it?
` A. Potentially.
` Q. You ascribe different meanings to those
`two terms?
` A. I haven't really given it much thought.
`The subject of the Seven One Seven patent
`specification deals with stations in a variety of
`locations, some of which receive data, some of
`which receive and retransmit data, some of which
`just receive data in somebody's home, for example.
` Q. Would you agree that, to one of skill
`in the art understanding terms as of 1987, that
`there could be receiver stations that were not
`subscriber stations?
` A. I don't know. I haven't really thought
`about that much.
` I guess what I'm really trying to say
`is, a person of ordinary skill in the art, picking
`up the Seven One Seven patent in 1987, would look
`at the term "receiver station" in the claims and
`would say, to the extent they had the question,
`what is a receiver station, they would be able to
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 253
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` RUSS
`flip through the specification of the Seven One
`Seven patent and see a lot of terminals in a
`variety of places and would conclude that those
`terminals were the basis for the term "receiver
`station", and would make note of the fact that,
`among other things, the receiver station is a
`station that receives.
` Q. Would one of still in the art in 1987
`have understood the term "receiver station" any
`differently than the term "subscriber station"?
` A. Not necessary.
` Q. Do you have an opinion as to whether
`one of skill in the art would have recognized that
`there were things qualifying as receiver stations
`that would not qualify as subscriber stations?
` A. I'm sorry, would you repeat the
`question? I apologize.
` Q. Do you have an opinion as to whether
`one of skill in the art would have recognized that
`there were things qualifying as receiver stations
`that would not qualify as subscriber stations?
` A. I'm not aware of anything. I would
`think a subscriber station is a subset of a
`receiver station. It's a receiver station used by
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 254
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` RUSS
`a subscriber.
` Q. Is it your view that one of skill in
`the art in 1987 would not have deemed something to
`be a receiver station if it received transmissions
`from entities other than other stations?
` A. I think a person of ordinary skill in
`the art in 1987 would understand that a receiver
`station first and foremost is a station that
`receives, and so that naturally raises the
`question of receives from what.
` And my opinion that the semantics of
`the term means "receive from somewhere outside
`itself," "receiving from somewhere else".
` Q. So, when you say in Paragraph 52 on
`Page 24 of your declaration that, in your view, "A
`receiver station is a station that can receive
`transmissions from other stations," you don't mean
`to exclude something that receives transmissions
`from external sources that are not stations?
` MR. SCHREINER: Object, form.
` THE WITNESS: I don't know. I think
` the plain and ordinary meaning that I put
` there is the most concise and accurate
` phrasing of my opinion, that it's a station
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 255
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` RUSS
` that can receive transmissions from other
` stations.
`BY MR. TOUTON:
` Q. Would you agree that one of skill in
`the art in '87 would have thought that receiver
`stations included, for example, Earth Station Four
`receiving deep space originated signals?
` MR. SCHREINER: Objection, form.
` THE WITNESS: Well, you know, that's
` not something I've necessarily given a lot of
` thought to, because of course I was trying to
` look at the terms as are found in the claims,
` the specification, and in this case I think
` it's the Humble patent.
` But the idea, is if there is a receiver
` station, that there must be some external
` station, if you will, that's transmitting to
` it. Otherwise there will be no purpose for
` building a receiver.
`BY MR. TOUTON:
` Q. Well, is it your view that all
`transmissions originate from stations?
` A. All transmissions originate from
`transmitters.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 256
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` RUSS
` Q. Do they originate from stations?
` A. I guess to be consistent with the
`terminology, you could say that. You could
`identify the transmitter as a transmitting
`station.
` Q. So you would view a nebula in deep
`space as a station?
` A. Well, that would depend on whether or
`not I would -- to make that I would have to define
`of course the deep space antenna as a receiving
`station, and I just don't know that I would ever
`use that terminology. It just seems very unusual
`to me.
` The idea of a receiver station is that
`this is something that's purpose built for
`receiving a specific type of signal from something
`else. And again in the context of this patent and
`of these claims, we're talking about stations that
`are engineered for specific communicative
`purposes.
` Q. So, would you or would you not consider
`a facility located on Earth with a large array
`antenna for listening to the cosmos, would you
`consider such a thing to be a receiver station?
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 257
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` RUSS
` A. I don't think I would use that
`terminology.
` I might describe it as a receiving
`apparatus or as an instrument for sensing the
`presence of signals that may or may not be there.
` But, again, receiver station connotes
`something that was purpose built to receive a
`specific transmission.
` And again in the context of the claim
`and in the context of the patents, I think that's
`the plain and ordinary meaning.
` Q. To one of skill in the art as of 1987,
`would they have understood that there were
`situations in which transmitter and receiver
`stations were collocated?
` A. Well, if you ignore the claims in the
`patents, then, yes, that's a theoretical
`possibility.
` But from the standpoint of the claim,
`you know, we're talking about something that's
`been engineered to receive something from
`something that transmits.
` Q. In your view, would one of skill in the
`art in 1987 have thought of a workbench location
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 258
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` RUSS
`with an oscilloscope, let's say, that receives by
`coaxial cable a signal from a signal generator
`located down the bench aways, would they have
`referred to the place with the oscilloscope as a
`receiver station?
` A. I don't think so. I think again they
`would again refer to that as an instrument for
`sensing a signal that may or may not be there.
` Q. So you would exclude that from your
`definition of a receiver station?
` A. I would exclude that from the
`definition of the claim term "receiver station" as
`found in the Seven One Seven patent.
` Q. Referring to Exhibit 1001A, which is
`the Seven One Seven patent, and specifically Claim
`One...
` A. Opposing counsel may need to remove the
`last page so I may pick it up easily.
` Q. Alright. Do you see that Claim One
`uses the term "receiver station"?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Is there anything in Claim One that, in
`your opinion, creates a requirement that the
`receiver station be some particular distance from
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 259
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` RUSS
`the source of the video signals?
` A. What I note is the language, the
`literal language of the claim is that "receiving
`information content in at least one information
`transmission at said receiver station".
` So the literal language would mean,
`receiving something at said receiver station.
`That's the literal claim language.
` Q. Alright.
` A. And, you know, I always like to, when
`I'm starting with a claim, to start with, what's
`the plain English meaning, and then what would a
`person of ordinary skill in the art understand
`and, you know, both of which I think would shed
`light on this.
` And I think about the phrase, they
`think received a package at the post office. No
`one would conclude from that that a package was
`moved around inside the post office.
` They would instantly conclude that a
`package was brought into the post office from the
`outside.
` And so, the important thing is not just
`that there is this receiver station, whatever that
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 260
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` RUSS
`is, but that the information transmission is
`received at the receiver station. And that
`implies to me that it comes in from somewhere
`else.
` The alternative would be, if it doesn't
`come in from outside the receiver station, then it
`is generated by the receiver station, which in my
`opinion, generated by the receiver station is a
`fundamentally different thing than received at the
`receiver station.
` Q. In your notion of the definition of
`"receiver station," is there any requirement for a
`particular degree of remoteness between the source
`of the transmission and the receiver station?
` A. I think the important thing is that
`there has to be a communication interfaced to the
`outside world.
` Q. But for the standpoint of your
`definition, it would be acceptable if the source
`of the transmission were just an inch outside the
`receiver station?
` A. As long as the interface exits the
`receiver station, as I sit here today I'm not able
`to think of a requirement for distance.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 261
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` RUSS
` Q. Is it your view that a system can
`consist of a receiver station as well as other
`items?
` MR. SCHREINER: Object, form.
` THE WITNESS: I don't understand your
` question.
`BY MR. TOUTON:
` Q. Let me give you an example. Suppose
`there is a facility run by a cable company that
`has a broadcast studio where programming is
`originated, and then it has a head-in
` A. Okay.
` Q. And they're located on the same plot of
`land, in the same building, let's say.
` Could the head-in be properly viewed by
`one of skill in the art as a receiver station?
` MR. SCHREINER: Object, scope.
` THE WITNESS: Well, I haven't really
` thought about that.
` I think you'd have a hard same saying
` that because a head-in is a vast array of
` components.
` Again the terminology "receiver
` station," I think a person of ordinary skill
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 262
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` RUSS
` in the art would understand a station to be,
` you know, this thing.
` Now that's why it's important, if you
` are going to attempt to determine the extent
` to which something reads against the claim,
` you've got to identify what it is that you
` call the receiver station, okay?
` But, you know, I think something as big
` as a head-in, you might have a hard time
` calling that a receiver station.
` I think you'd probably call it like an
` IRD, the input to the head-in in a receiver
` station.
` But, you know, the thing is that this
` thing that you call a station has to be this
` plausible combination and not some
` arbitrarily drawn line.
` So, again, the short answer to your
` question is I haven't really thought about
` it, but there has to be this plausible reason
` for identifying an entity as a station, okay.
`BY MR. TOUTON:
` Q. Is that requirement that you just
`stated, that there be some plausibility to the
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 263
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` RUSS
`definition or boundary in the station, is that
`reflected in any of the claim language that you're
`relying on?
` A. It's reflected in the use of the term
`"station".
` Q. Are you familiar with the facilities in
`the timeframe of 1987 that were multiple stations,
`such as a radio station and a TV station, that
`were collocated?
` A. I don't know. I haven't really thought
`about that.
` Q. You didn't learn about that in your
`work at Scientific Atlanta?
` A. I didn't learn about where radio and TV
`stations were located. No, I did not.
` Q. Did you visit radio or TV stations when
`you were at Scientific Atlanta?
` A. Not when I was at Scientific Atlanta.
` Q. Did you visit them some other time?
` A. I had visited television stations
`before and after my work at Scientific Atlanta,
`but largely in connection with school field trips,
`frankly.
` Q. If the term "receiver station" were
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 264
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` RUSS
`broadly construed, could it include an apparatus
`for receiving signals from a bus?
` MR. SCHREINER: Objection, form.
` THE WITNESS: I don't understand your
` question.
`BY MR. TOUTON:
` Q. Under a broad construction of receiver
`station that might have been used by someone of
`skill in the art in 1987, could an apparatus for
`receiving signals from a bus constitute a receiver
`station?
` A. I haven't really thought about that
`much, but offhand, one thing I note is that it
`very much depends on what you mean by "bus".
` You know, there's a bus inside of many
`computers, for example, like a PCX express bus,
`and you know one entity on a PCX express bus and
`another entity on a PCX express bus, you would say
`that's really two parts of the same entity.
` That's the whole purpose of a PCX
`express bus is to be inside a single computer.
` There are things that are called
`"buses," like RS 485. They are designed and
`spread across and connect say multiple things
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 265
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` RUSS
`together.
` Q. Um-hmm.
` A. In that instance, you know, because
`it's designed in affect to be a local area
`network, that's a little bit different.
` So, it depends again on whether or not
`the two elements in the bus taken together could
`plausibly be called a "station".
` Q. Or alternatively could plausibly be
`called separate items, right?
` A. Right. I suppose you could say that.
` Q. Yes. So, for example, would a device
`external to a computer cabinet that was connected
`with an SC SI bus, could that device be a receiver
`station?
` A. I would call a SC SI device part of the
`computer. It's well known in the art to be what
`we would call a storage area network, and so I
`would say that that device, I mean, that device
`has no function when it's not attached to the SC
`SI port.
` So I would say that it's part of the
`computer.
` Q. Would you say that a node in a local
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 266
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` RUSS
`area network could be a receiver station?
` A. It depends on whether or not that node
`was capable of some standalone function.
` Q. Some -- I'm sorry?
` A. Whether or not that node is capable of
`some standalone function.
` Q. What do you mean by "standalone
`function," or particularly the standalone part of
`it?
` A. Capable of functioning alone, standing
`alone.
` Q. Without receiving the signals?
` A. Well, I mean, if it's a receiver
`station it has to receive signals, but I mean, you
`know, an example of what I am talking about, a
`keyboard, if it's not plugged into a computer, is
`an expensive boat anchor. So I would not describe
`a keyboard as a -- so this mythical node on the
`keyboard, it is putative node on the network. It
`depends on what it is.
` Q. Let me make it a little bit more
`specific.
` Suppose you had an Ethernet network,
`and there was a device on it that was a printer,
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 267
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` RUSS
`intended to receive things directed at it over the
`network and to send them to a printer located
`right there.
` Would you consider the print server to
`be a receiver station?
` MR. SCHREINER: Objection, scope.
` THE WITNESS: I haven't really thought
` about that. I would have to see an example
` of this print server and how it functioned to
` see whether or not it was a receiver station
` under the terms of the claim.
`BY MR. TOUTON:
` Q. What would you -- and I'm not talking
`about other parts of the claim. I'm just talking
`about the term "receiver station" -- what would
`you look for as a characteristic to determine
`whether that print server constituted a receiver
`station?
` MR. SCHREINER: Objection, scope.
` THE WITNESS: Well, I would have to,
` you know, see maybe some written
` documentation about this print server, see
` whether or not it was something that could be
` plausibly called a "station."
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 268
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` RUSS
` And you know, I'd have to consider
` whether or not a person of ordinary skill in
` the art -- I'm talking to fast, I apologize,
` a person of ordinary skill in the art as of
` 1987 would consider it to be a receiver
` station.
` It would make me time to sit down and
` I'd have to see a specific example in order
` to arrive at a conclusion.
`BY MR. TOUTON:
` Q. Are there any particular
`characteristics of this print server that right
`now you can think of would be important to that
`determination?
` MR. SCHREINER: Objection, scope.
` THE WITNESS: Well, I would say the
` claim terms found in the Seven One Seven
` patent.
`BY MR. TOUTON:
` Q. Does the Seven One Seven patent
`specification describe many things that you
`believe constitute receiver stations?
` A. My offhand recollection is that it
`does.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 269
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` RUSS
` Q. Do some of these receiver stations
`described if the Seven One Seven patent
`specification receive both transmissions from
`external sources and transmissions received from
`internal sources?
` A. Well, I mean, I haven't really thought
`about that, but, for example, the terminal in the
`farmer's home in the Farm Planes of Europe is
`receiving control signals and data from the
`broadcast network.
` Q. Is it also receiving signals from parts
`of that receiver station, such as keyboard
`signals?
` A. My offhand recollection is there is a
`keyboard that's part of some of the embodiments of
`stations in the Harvey patents, but I haven't
`really considered, you know -- again, the purpose
`of that terminal is to receive information from
`the broadcast network, and that is that reception
`that makes it a receiver station.
` Q. Are you aware of a definition of the
`term "ultimate receiver station" that is presented
`in the Seven One Seven patent specification?
` A. Yes.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 270
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` RUSS
` Q. Alright, if you could refer to Column
`21, Lines 46 to 52. Could you read aloud the
`sentence that appears there.
` A. "Herein after," and I assume you mean
`the sentence beginning with "herein after"?
` Q. Yes.
` A. "Herein after stations that originate
`broadcast transmissions are called 'original
`transmission stations'. Stations that receive and
`retransmit broadcast transmissions are called
`'intermediate transmit stations', and stations
`where subscribers view programming are called
`'ultimate receiver stations'."
` Q. Reading that through the eyes of one of
`ordinary skill in the art in 1987, do you
`understand it to be defining ultimate receiver
`stations as stations where subscribers view
`programming?
` A. Yes.
` Q. In your view, is the term "receiver
`station" broader than the term "ultimate receiver
`station"?
` MR. SCHREINER: Objection, scope.
` THE WITNESS: I don't know. I haven't
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 271
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` RUSS
` really thought about that.
` I mean, the station of Claim One of the
` Seven One Seven patent is a receiver station
` and is in possession of subscriber-specific
` data.
` So, the elements of the Harvey patent
` specifications that most closely match the
` receiver station of Claim One is an ultimate
` receiver station.
` Whether or not other stations line up I
` haven't really considered.
`BY MR. TOUTON:
` Q. Do you believe that the
`term receiver station, as used in Claim One of the
`Seven One Seven patent is limited to those things
`meeting the patent's definition of the term
`"ultimate receiver stations"?
` MR. SCHREINER: Objection, form.
` THE WITNESS: I believe that the
` ultimate receiver station -- by the way, I
` note therefore that the Seven One Seven
` patent specification contains the term
` "receiver station."
` I think the way that I would express it
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 272
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` RUSS
` is, the ultimate receiver station of the
` Seven One Seven patent specification is an
` embodiment of the receiver station of Claim
` One.
`BY MR. TOUTON:
` Q. Do you believe there are other
`embodiments of receiver stations, as that term is
`used in the Seven One Seven patent, that do not
`constitute ultimate receiver stations?
` A. I don't know. I have not really
`thought about that.
` Q. Refer if you would to Claim 10 of the
`Seven One Seven patent.
` A. Okay.
` Q. Do you see in the first element of that
`there is reference made to a "subscriber station"?
` A. Okay.
` Q. In your opinion is the term "receiver
`station" broader than the term "subscriber
`station," as those terms are used in the Seven One
`Seven patent?
` MR. SCHREINER: Objection, scope.
` THE WITNESS: I don't know. I haven't
` really considered Claim 10 and I haven't
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 273
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` RUSS
` really thought about what the term there
` means.
`BY MR. TOUTON:
` Q. As far as you know was there anything
`that prevented the drafter of the Seven One Seven
`patent from including a definition of the phrase
`"receiver station" within the specification?
` A. I'm sorry, can you repeat the question
`again. I apologize.
` Q. As far as you know, was there anything
`that prevented the drafter of the Seven One Seven
`patent from including a definition of the phrase
`"receiver station" within the specification?
` MR. SCHREINER: Objection, scope.
` THE WITNESS: Well, I guess I don't
` understand the question, because the phrase
` "receiver station" is in the specification.
`BY MR. TOUTON:
` Q. Is there a definition of it?
` A. I think we just looked at a definition
`at least of an "ultimate receiver station".
` Q. Do you think that an ultimate receiver
`station is defined in precisely the same way as
`the term "receiver station"?
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 274
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` RUSS
` A. I think an ultimate receiver station is
`an embodiment of a receiver station.
` Q. So, you agree then that ultimate
`receiver station is a narrower concept than the
`term "receiver station"?
` A. I did not say that. I said --
` Q. You do not agree with that?
` A. I said an ultimate receiver station is
`an example of a receiver station.
` Q. Are there other examples of receiver
`stations?
` A. I don't recall offhand.
` Q. Since there is a possibility that there
`are other instances of receiver stations than
`those that would qualify as ultimate receiver
`stations, let me ask this...
` Was there anything that you are aware
`of that prevented the drafter of the Seven One
`Seven patent from including in the specification a
`definition of the term "receiver station"?
` MR. SCHREINER: Objection, scope.
` THE WITNESS: I'm sorry, but I thought
` I already answered that, that would be the
` term "ultimate receiver station" is defined
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 275
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` RUSS
` in the patent and it is an example of a
` receiver station.
` In that sense, the term "receiver
` station" is not only a nonlimiting example of
` a receiver station is provided, it is
` defined.
`BY MR. TOUTON:
` Q. The example is defined?
` A. An ultimate receiver station is
`defined.
` Q. But you don't reject the possibility
`that there are receiver stations that do not
`constitute ultimate receiver stations, do you?
` A. I really haven't thought about that.
` Q. Would you agree that, to one of skill
`in the art, it would have been clearer if a
`definition specifically of the term "receiver
`station" had been included in the specification?
` MR. SCHREINER: Objection, form.
` THE WITNESS: I really haven't given
` that much thought. I don't know.
`BY MR. TOUTON:
` Q. Would you agree that Claim One would be
`clearer than it is as currently stated if after
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 276
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
Accessing this document will incur an additional charge of $.
After purchase, you can access this document again without charge.
Accept $ Charge
Still Working On It
This document is taking longer than usual to download. This can happen if we need to contact the court directly to obtain the document and their servers are running slowly.
Give it another minute or two to complete, and then try the refresh button.
A few More Minutes ... Still Working
It can take up to 5 minutes for us to download a document if the court servers are running slowly.
Thank you for your continued patience.
This document could not be displayed.
We could not find this document within its docket. Please go back to the docket page and check the link. If that does not work, go back to the docket and refresh it to pull the newest information.
Your account does not support viewing this document.
You need a Paid Account to view this document. Click here to change your account type.
Your account does not support viewing this document.
Set your membership
status to view this document.
With a Docket Alarm membership, you'll
get a whole lot more, including:
- Up-to-date information for this case.
- Email alerts whenever there is an update.
- Full text search for other cases.
- Get email alerts whenever a new case matches your search.
One Moment Please
The filing “” is large (MB) and is being downloaded.
Please refresh this page in a few minutes to see if the filing has been downloaded. The filing will also be emailed to you when the download completes.
Your document is on its way!
If you do not receive the document in five minutes, contact support at support@docketalarm.com.
Sealed Document
We are unable to display this document, it may be under a court ordered seal.
If you have proper credentials to access the file, you may proceed directly to the court's system using your government issued username and password.
Access Government Site
