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`MECHAEL ASSELTA
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`
`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
`m.—-—.—_—._._._.__.__
`
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`LKQ CORPORATION
`Petitioner
`
`V.
`
`CLEARLAMP, LLC
`Patent Owner
`
`Case IPR2013m0002O
`
`Patent 7,297,364
`
`
`
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`MECHAEL ASSELTA
`
`
`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
`m.—-—.—_—._._._.__.__
`
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`LKQ CORPORATION
`Petitioner
`
`V.
`
`CLEARLAMP, LLC
`Patent Owner
`
`Case IPR2013m0002O
`
`Patent 7,297,364
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`RMCHAELASSELTA
`
`
`DEPOSITION OF MICHAEL ASSELTA
`
`Taken on behalf of Petitioner
`
`September 20, 2013
`
`(Starting time of the deposition:
`
`1:51 p.m.)
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`MICHAEL ASSELTA
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`A.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Pardon me. Could you restate that?
`
`Sure. What was American Bumper's business?
`
`It's my understanding that Mo refinished
`
`bumpers and headlamp assemblies and mirrors,
`
`I think.
`
`Q.
`
`All under the title of the American Bumper
`
`Company?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`That‘s my understanding.
`
`Let's take a look at a document that's
`
`marked as Exhibit 2012, which is several pages long.
`
`And the document is called "SPO Headlamp Refinishing
`
`Project," and then there‘s some codes underneath it.
`
`is this the document that you're referring to in
`
`Paragraph 2, when you referenced Exhibit 2012?
`
`A.
`
`Yes.
`
`Q.
`
`And you say that Exhibit 2012 is a true and
`
`correct copy of American Bumper testing package.
`
`Do
`
`you see that in your Faragraph 2?
`
`A.
`
`Yes.
`
`Q. What did you mean when you wrote "testing
`
`package" in Paragraph 2?
`
`A.
`
`Simply that these are various tests that
`
`have been performed by outside parties.
`
`Q.
`
`So it's your testimony that Exhibit 2012
`
`contains the results of multiple different tests;
`
`is
`
`that right?
`
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` Cuurl Reporters;
`
`
`
`
`
`hMCHAELASSELTA
`
`
`A.
`
`Yes.
`
`Q.
`
`And do you have any understanding about why
`
`the supplier's submission is indicated to be American
`
`Bumper here on 2012?
`
`A.
`
`Yes.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Why is that?
`
`Some of these tests were in process before
`
`Clearlamp, and as a point of fact,
`
`some of the
`
`entities that perform testing still refer to M0 as
`
`American Bumper, and they use his old ewmail that he
`
`had.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay. What company performed the testing in
`
`Exhibit 2012?
`
`A. Well,
`
`there are a number of companies in
`
`this exhibit.
`
`Q.
`
`Let‘s go through it, then. Where do you see
`
`the first testing results?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`General Motors.
`
`And that is on Page 5 of the document;
`
`is
`
`that right?
`
`A.
`
`Yes.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`So what is the document at Pages 5,
`
`6 and 7?
`
`Five,
`
`6 and 7 generally outline engineering
`
`standards from General Motors.
`
`Q.
`
`So 5,
`
`6 and 7 aren't actually the results of
`
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`|__________i,*.—___._____...—_—..~.—————————]3l .
`
`
` Court Reporters _
`
`
`
`
`
`MICHAEL ASSELTA
`
`
`l___
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`a test, right?
`
`A.
`
`No, but they were presented to us at the
`
`same time.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay.
`
`So there you said,
`
`"They were
`
`presented to us at the same time." What did you mean
`
`by "us"?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`I received them in an ewmail.
`
`From who?
`
`It may have been forwarded from Mo, but
`
`forwarded from a General Motors engineer.
`
`Q.
`
`And then you also said in that answer a
`
`couple of questions ago, you said "at the same time."
`
`What did you mean when you said at the same time?
`
`A.
`
`There were some other testing results that
`
`General Motors sent, and at the same time,
`
`they sent
`
`the standards, which they asked us to redact and
`
`maintain those confidential.
`
`Q.
`
`And so was this as —— did you receive that
`
`e-mail during the course of this litigation with LKQ?
`
`A.
`
`Yes.
`
`Q.
`
`Do you remember approximately when?
`
`MR. ROBINSON:
`
`I'm going to obéect as vague
`
`as to that ewmail, because there's a couyie of
`
`potentiai e—mails that could be discussed there.
`
`MR. WEED: There was only one e—mail that
`
`
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`32
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`MECHAEL ASSELTA
`
`
`Q.
`
`Can you ~— it says "removed from" something.
`
`Do you know what that says underneath that?
`
`-A.
`
`As
`
`I look at it, I think it says "GMW."
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Do you know what GMW means?
`
`I do not.
`
`Q.
`
`now,
`
`looking back at your declaration page
`
`at Paragraph 2, we were just talking about this
`
`exhibit.
`
`You testified here that the document relates
`
`to tests performed according to the teachings of U.S.
`
`Patent 7,297,364, right?
`
`A.
`
`I refer to the vehicle lamp refurbishing
`
`conducted according to those teachings, yes.
`
`Q.
`
`So is it your testimony that Exhibit 2012 is
`
`abOut
`
`lamps that were refurbished according to the
`
`'364 patent?
`
`A.
`
`Yes.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`And how do you know that?
`
`I have two sources.
`
`One is that I was
`
`told -— to the extent lamps were submitted to these
`
`testers before Clearlamp’s involvement,
`
`I was told
`
`that they were refurbished by fio, generally, and
`
`submitted to these companies, and then subsequent to
`
`Clearlamp, LLC's formation and ownership of the
`
`patent,
`
`I know that we arranged for the submission of
`
`these headlamps.
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`37
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`EKhKEEV
`
`Coarr Rupor!ors__
`
`
`
`
`MECHAEL ASSELTA
`
`
`Q.
`
`And "we" in that answer is ClearLamp
`
`Technics, LLC?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`so, Clearlamp.
`
`So the patent—holding company was
`
`responsible for some of these test results?
`
`A.
`
`No.
`
`The patentwholding company is
`
`responsible to submit the samples for these results.
`
`Q.
`
`Do you know what coating was applied to the
`
`lamps that were submitted prior to Clearlamp being
`
`involved?
`
`A.
`
`On —— yes,
`
`I know that GE Momentive was used
`
`at the request of one of the testers, and I believe
`
`another coating may have been used at other times.
`
`Q.
`
`So when you said GE MOmentive,
`
`is that a
`
`trade name of an actual coating product?
`
`A.
`
`GE Momentive is like a subsidiary company
`
`name, and then they have Silfort and other product
`
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`names.
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`S~Z~LwaOwR"T.
`
`19
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`2O
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`22
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`23
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`2%
`
`25
`
`Q.
`
`When you say GE Momentive was the coating
`
`that was used, do you mean Silfort was the coating
`
`that was used?
`
`A.
`
`The brand name, Silfort, has changed from
`
`time to time, so I believe it would be accurate to say
`
`PHCSBV.
`
`Q.
`
`So your testimony is that PHCSS? is a trade
`
`38
`
`B A R KLEY
`Cour! Ropurl‘ols
`
`
`
`MICHAEL ASSELTA
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`name for a coating attributabie to GE Momentive?
`
`A.
`
`Yes.
`
`Q.
`
`Flip to Page 9 of Exhibit 2012, and if you
`
`look at Lines 9 through 13 there,
`
`the rightmost column
`
`contains the word or the phrase "PH0587."
`
`Do you see
`
`that?
`
`A.
`
`Yes.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Is that what you were just referring to?
`
`Yes.
`
`Now,
`
`in the nest five group of WW the next
`
`group of‘a five lines below that,
`
`there‘s reference to
`
`something called AS4000.
`
`Do you see that?
`
`A.
`
`Yes.
`
`Do you know what that is?
`
`I recognize that as another brand name.
`
`Is that a brand name for a Momentive
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`product?
`
`A.
`
`I believe that it is.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`When did you first hear about AS4000?
`
`I was again doing research on my own on the
`
`various products that were in the maxket that are
`
`marketed as approved for this application.
`
`Q.
`
`So did you say that the AS4000 was marketed
`
`as approved for this application?
`
`A.
`
`I recognize the name from that research.
`
`I
`
`
`
`39
`
`
`
`
`
`
`hMCHAELASSELTA
`
`
`don't recall the particulars.
`
`Q.
`
`And what do you mean when you say "this
`
`application"?
`
`A.
`
`A silicone that combined with polycarbonate
`
`for Ford lighting applications.
`
`Q.
`
`Do you know when A84000 was first on the
`
`market?
`
`A.
`
`I do not.
`
`Q.
`
`Now,
`
`in those same set of five rows we've
`
`been looking at in reference to AS4000, you can see
`
`that in each row it says "Mo."
`
`Is that referring to
`
`M0,
`
`to Mr. Paperi?
`
`A.
`
`No,
`
`I do not believe it is.
`
`Q. What do you think that "M0"
`
`is?
`
`A.
`
`it probably —- I'm speculating.
`
`It probabiy
`
`means Momentive. These are various coatings that
`
`General Motors was looking at that they probably had
`
`had on GEM lamps, but I'm speculating.
`
`Q.
`
`Down a few lines from where we are looking,
`
`starting at Line 25 “w
`
`A.
`
`Yes.
`
`Q.
`
`w“ there are a handful of lines that say
`
`"Mo‘s lamp."
`
`Do you know what that's referring to?
`
`A.
`
`Yes.
`
`Q. What is that?
`
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`40
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`FsKKKLEYs
`
`
`
`
`MICHAEL ASSELTA
`
`
`
`WW.“
`
`if I was directly copied or he forwarded it to me.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`But Mo was the intended recipient?
`
`(Witness nodding head.)
`
`Is that a yes?
`
`Yes.
`
`Q.
`
`Now, if we go on a few more pages, when we
`
`get to Page No. 21, it looks like it might be a
`
`presentation.
`
`Do you see that?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`I see Page 21.
`
`Do you know what the document is that begins
`
`at Page 23?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`document?
`
`I know the nature of it.
`
`And what is your understanding of that
`
`A.
`
`This document reflects some testing from GE
`
`Momentive, ultimately giving us advice on how thick
`
`their product should be applied.
`
`Q.
`
`And what product do you mean when you say
`
`"their product"?
`
`A.
`
`In this case,
`
`they tested GE Momentive
`
`PHCSBT,
`
`to my knowledge.
`
`Q.
`
`Do you know if Clearlamp has a similar
`
`document from Momentive about the A84000 product?
`
`A.
`
`NO.
`
`Q.
`
`No, you don't know, or no,
`
`they don't have
`
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`43
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`
`Cour! Ropnrlers
`
` EKERCEV
`
`
`
`MECHAEL ASSELTA
`
`In 2012?
`
`Give me a moment to review 2012.
`
`Sure.
`
`Page 17 and Page 18 of 2012.
`
`So you're saying that the document that is
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`marked separateiy as 2013 is from a compilation that's
`
`2012?
`
`A.
`
`Yes.
`
`Q.
`
`Let me hand you what we have already marked
`
`as 2014.
`
`A.
`
`thhuh.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`What is this document?
`
`These are more photographs that we received
`
`from General Motors Engineering.
`
`Q.
`
`And these are different photographs from the
`
`ones we looked at from Exhibit 2012, correct?
`
`A.
`
`That's my understanding.
`
`Q. What are the photographs in 2014
`
`illustrating?
`
`A.
`
`Again,
`
`these are ciosewups of Clear headlamp
`
`assembly lenses.
`
`Q.
`
`At the bottom of the front page of 2014 it
`
`says "Refinished samples."
`
`Do you see that?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Could you restate that?
`
`Yeah. At the very bottom of the front page
`
`45
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`ANCHAELASSELTA
`
`
`of that exhibit, it says "Refinished samples show
`
`similar performance"?
`
`A.
`
`Yes.
`
`Q.
`
`Do you know what is meant by "refinished
`
`samples"?
`
`A.
`
`I believe so.
`
`Q. What is meant by that?
`
`A.
`
`E believe it's comparing known approved
`
`coatings on OEM assembiies that have been refinished
`
`using our process. That is the '364 process.
`
`Q.
`
`And how do you know that the refinishing was
`
`done according to the '364 process?
`
`A.
`
`Because we had them completed using that
`
`process. We, as in Clearlamp. Cleariamp had them
`
`completed.
`
`Q.
`
`How was the coating on the refinished lamps
`
`represented in 2014, how was that coating cured?
`
`A.
`
`We cure the coating with a heat process, a
`
`heat cycle.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`So it wasn't a cured coating?
`
`No.
`
`Do you remember what kind of coating it was?
`
`I believe this testing was for General
`
`Motors, and they like the GE Momentive product, so we
`
`used the GE Momentive product.
`
`46
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`{Reporters
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