`
`UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
`NORTHERN DISTRICT OF ILLINOIS
`EASTERN DIVISION
`
`TRADING TECHNOLOGIES INTERNATIONAL,)
`INC.,
`
`Plaintiff,
`
`))
`
`))
`
`)
`v.
`)
`eSPEED, INC., eSPEED INTERNATIONAL,)
`LTD., ECCO LLC, and ECCOWARE, LTD.,)
`)
`Defendants.
`)
`
`No. 04 C 5312
`
`Chicago, Illinois
`September 17, 2007
`10:00 o'clock a.m.
`
`VOLUME 4-A
`TRIAL TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
`BEFORE THE HONORABLE JAMES B. MORAN, and a JURY
`
`APPEARANCES:
`Trading Technologies
`International, Inc., by:
`
`and
`
`TRADING TECHNOLOGIES
`INTERNATIONAL, INC.,
`MR. STEVEN F. BORSAND
`222 South Riverside Drive
`Chicago, Illinois 60606
`312-476-1000
`steve.borsand@
`tradingtechnologies.com
`McDONNELL, BOEHNEN, HULBERT &
`BERGHOFF, LTD.
`MR. PAUL H. BERGHOFF
`MR. S. RICHARD CARDEN
`MR. CHRISTOPHER M. CAVAN
`MR. MICHAEL D. GANNON
`MS. JENNIFER M. KURCZ
`MR. MATTHEW J. SAMPSON
`MR. LEIF R. SIGMOND
`300 South Wacker Drive
`Chicago, Illinois 60606
`312-913-0001
`berghoff@mbhb.com
`kurcz@mbhb.com
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`Page 1 of 45
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`TRADING TECH EXHIBIT 2211
`IBG ET AL. v. TRADING TECH
`CBM2015-00181
`
`
`
`eSpeed, Inc., eSpeed
`International, Inc.,
`Ecco LLC, Eccoware,
`LTD., by:
`
`Rosenthal Collins Group,
`LLC, by:
`
`639
`
`WINSTON & STRAWN
`MR. GEORGE C. LOMBARDI
`MR. RAYMOND C. PERKINS
`MR. IMRON T. ALY
`MR. KEVIN BANASIK
`MS. ELIZABETH HARTFORD ERICKSON
`MR. ANDREW M. JOHNSTONE
`MS. TRACEY J. ALLEN
`MR. JAMES M. HILMERT
`35 West Wacker Drive
`Chicago, Illinois 60601
`312-558-5600
`glombardi@winston.com
`rperkins@winston.com
`LAW OFFICES OF
`GARY A. ROSEN, P.C.
`MR. GARY A. ROSEN
`1831 Chestnut Street, Suite 802
`Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
`19103
`215-972-0600
`
`DOWELL BAKER
`MR. GEOFFREY A. BAKER
`201 Main Street
`Lafayette, IN 47901
`765-429-4004
`gabaker@dowellbaker.com
`
`Court Reporter:
`
`MS. CAROLYN COX, CSR, RPR, CRR
`Official Court Reporter
`219 S. Dearborn Street, Suite 1854-B
`Chicago, Illinois
`60604
`(312) 435-5639
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`HARRIS BRUMFIELD, DIRECT EXAMINATION
`BY MR. BERGHOFF:
`HARRIS BRUMFIELD, PLAINTIFF'S WITNESS, SWORN,
`CROSS EXAMINATION
`BY MR. LOMBARDI:
`
`REDIRECT EXAMINATION
`BY MR. BERGHOFF
`PATRICK TROY
`DIRECT EXAMINATION
`BY MR. CARDEN:
`BRIEN GREY
`DIRECT EXAMINATION
`BY MR. SAMPSON:
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`640
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`660
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`Technologies is going to call for its next witness Mr.
`Harris Brumfield.
`(Witness sworn.)
`
`- - -
`HARRIS BRUMFIELD, DIRECT EXAMINATION
`BY MR. BERGHOFF:
`Mr. Brumfield, could you please tell the jury
`Q.
`your full name.
`Harris Clayton Brumfield.
`A.
`And what is your current position?
`Q.
`CEO of Trading Technologies.
`A.
`And that's Trading Technologies, that's the
`Q.
`plaintiff in this lawsuit?
`Yes.
`A.
`Where do you live?
`Q.
`In Chicago.
`A.
`And with whom do you live?
`Q.
`I have a wife and three daughters.
`A.
`And did you graduate from college, Mr. Brumfield?
`Q.
`Yes, I did.
`A.
`And where did you go?
`Q.
`Mississippi State University.
`A.
`I assume that's in Mississippi?
`Q.
`Yes.
`A.
`And what did you study at Mississippi State?
`Q.
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`When did you
`
`Banking and finance.
`A.
`And when did you graduate?
`Q.
`In 1986.
`A.
`And you're here in Chicago now.
`Q.
`first come to Chicago?
`Late 1986, late 1986.
`A.
`And what brought you to Chicago?
`Q.
`A couple of different friends mentioned the
`A.
`exchanges here, and one of them actually worked there,
`and one of them worked at Arthur Andersen and his wife
`worked for the exchange, and I knew them from school and
`they were older, and they thought my personality, it
`might be something that would interest me when I
`graduated.
`So I came and actually stayed on one of
`their couches for a month or so.
`And when was this?
`Q.
`This was November 1st, 1986.
`A.
`And did you get involved in any of the exchanges
`Q.
`at that point in Chicago?
`Yes.
`My one friends that worked at the exchange,
`A.
`worked at the Chicago Mercantile Exchange.
`I ended up
`getting a job running for PaineWebber at the Chicago
`Board of Trade in the green room.
`And how long did you keep that position as a
`Q.
`runner?
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`662
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`A few months; maybe three, four months.
`A.
`And just briefly, what is a runner, what does a
`Q.
`runner do, what did you do?
`So they have the pits where the traders are and
`A.
`the brokers and they all interact.
`And on the side,
`they have all the desks, the trading desks where
`different firms are located and the different orders
`come in through those desks, whether they're wire orders
`or phone orders.
`And what a runner does is he takes an
`order from the phone clerk and talks to the customers or
`takes it off the wire, I guess, and they give it to you,
`and you run it to the different locations at the
`different pits, whether it's the wheat pit, corn pit, or
`soybean pit.
`And you sort of know the brokers after a
`few days, you sort of know who is your broker for
`PaineWebber, who you go to, their assistant, and give it
`to them and run back and grab a few more.
`How long were you a runner on the Board of Trade
`Q.
`floor?
`A few months; three, four months.
`A.
`And then what did you do?
`Q.
`They had a little bridge where you could walk
`A.
`across to the financial room where they traded
`government notes, 10-year notes, 30-year notes,
`municipal bonds and the options on those particular
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`663
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`And that
`products, and I actually would go over there.
`was a more happening type atmosphere than the green room
`at the time.
`The markets go in cycles, and so I went
`over there and I met a broker, an independent broker, a
`couple of them, and asked them for jobs and eventually
`talked -- got a job over there as a broker's assistant
`for three different independent brokers.
`And what were you doing as a broker's assistant?
`Q.
`So these brokers were inside the pit filling for
`A.
`these different firms like PaineWebber, so I would just
`assist them, get the orders from the customers -- from
`As far as hand signals, you would watch.
`I
`the desk.
`would just assist the broker in any way possible, and it
`was --
`About how long did you stay a broker's assistant?
`Q.
`That was probably four or five months.
`A.
`And then what did you do after that?
`Q.
`So one of the three brokers wanted to concentrate
`A.
`more on his very large orders and so his one lot and two
`lot brokerages and five lots were getting in his way and
`were sort of cumbersome, so he actually offered me to
`fill that small brokerage for him.
`So he would
`concentrate on the large orders, I would do his small
`orders.
`That was a very big break for me because the
`income was probably -- as a broker's assistant, I wasn't
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`664
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`The income was probably 10 times
`getting paid much.
`that even filling his garbage lot business.
`And so in connection with these small lots or
`Q.
`garbage lots as you referred to them as, were you
`actually on the trading floor trading in this period?
`Yes.
`I was -- I turned into an independent
`A.
`broker.
`I leased a badge.
`I knew I was going to have
`income coming from these odd lots.
`It probably amounted
`to -- it was a very big break.
`It probably amounted to
`a hundred thousand a year in income.
`I could calculate
`filling a hundred of them and I could see what I was
`going to make, so I was able to lease a badge.
`And how long did you continue doing these small
`Q.
`lots for the other broker?
`So I did that for about six or seven months,
`A.
`eight months.
`I actually at the same time, you can --
`you can do brokerage and trade for yourself at the same
`time in parallel.
`So after filling in the brokerage for
`a little bit, I got interested in the trading side of
`it, and so I started trading a tiny bit at the same time
`that I was doing the brokerage.
`So it started
`intriguing me more and more as the months went by, and
`at the end of six, seven, eight months, I thought I
`could really be pretty good at trading, and so I
`actually -- I'm sorry.
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`665
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`No, no, no.
`Q.
`-- I actually went to him at that time and gave
`A.
`him back the business and just went to trading full time
`so I could concentrate and really do research and really
`think through it very deeply, and I thought I could do
`even better trading, so that's what I did next.
`Just so I understand, for about six or seven
`Q.
`months, you continued doing these small lots for the
`other broker?
`Yes.
`A.
`And then after that point, you continued trading?
`Q.
`Yes.
`A.
`And for whom were you trading?
`Q.
`Totally for myself.
`I gave back all the business
`A.
`to him, and I totally concentrated on the trading at
`that point.
`So this was trading your own money for yourself?
`Q.
`Yes, and the brokerage helped me a lot because it
`A.
`helped me build up a little bit of capital, so I could
`afford to try to trade with it and see how it went.
`And how long did you spend as a trader for
`Q.
`yourself on the Board of Trade?
`That was
`I spent about 10 years on the floor.
`A.
`about 10 years I concentrated solely trading on the
`floor.
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`666
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`Mr. Brumfield, what were you trading during those
`Q.
`10 years?
`The odd lot brokerage was actually a municipal
`A.
`bond pit, and it was one of the smaller pits, but that
`was the language I knew first, so that's where I started
`out.
`And after a few months, the 10-year pit was pretty
`close to that and I totally went to the 10-year, and I
`spent the whole rest of the 10 years in the 10-year
`government note pit.
`Is that also sometimes referred to as the 10-year
`Q.
`treasuries?
`That's correct.
`A.
`And in your 10 years as a trader of 10-year
`Q.
`treasuries, were you successful?
`Yes.
`It went up and down, and it was not always
`A.
`the smoothest thing; but the general trajectory, yes, I
`became a success over those 10 years trading those
`10-year notes.
`What levels of trading volume -- when you were on
`Q.
`the floor trading for those 10 years, what type of
`trading volumes were you doing?
`Of course, at first, I started out trading
`A.
`smaller, but after two or three years, I was trading
`very large.
`I was most of the time trading -- I
`participated in 20 percent of the trades in the pits.
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`667
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`There is the
`There's always two sides to a trade.
`person who buys and the person who sells, so you can't
`do both sides, you have to have a counter-part, so I was
`involved in 20 percent of the trades for the last six or
`seven years consistently trading in the 10-year note
`pit.
`And were you buying and selling a lot of
`Q.
`contracts over this 10-year period?
`Sure.
`To do 20 percent, you have to be doing a
`A.
`lot of contracts.
`So the daily swings as far as
`relating to that, I guess -- let's see.
`There were
`quite numerous, numerous all the time, say, like
`hundreds of thousands of dollars exchanged, and from
`time to time, there would be over a million dollars in a
`particular day.
`This was only into -- four or five
`years into it, right.
`So you
`Let me just be sure I understand.
`Q.
`personally would be on these large days, be trading more
`than a million dollars in a day?
`And actually, the value of the contract was a
`A.
`whole, whole lot more than that, but I was processing,
`so I was buying and selling all at the same time.
`So I
`never had on all 20 percent.
`I didn't go buy 20
`percent.
`I was buying and selling and intermingling all
`the time.
`In fact, a lot of the times, I would be two
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`668
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`I would be buying -- I would be
`sides of the market.
`making a bid and making an offer at the same time to the
`market.
`But it would be on those large days, you'd be
`Q.
`trading more than a million dollars in that day?
`The largest days.
`The vast majority were a
`A.
`hundred thousand, $150,000 type events.
`And were you one of the largest traders in the
`Q.
`10-year treasury pit?
`I was the largest trader in the 10-year treasury
`A.
`pit.
`You were the largest trader?
`Q.
`Yes.
`A.
`By any margin?
`Q.
`There was one other guy who did a pretty good
`A.
`He might have -- he might have done two-thirds of
`bid.
`what I did.
`He traded a pretty good bid.
`Now, when you were in the pit, live trading at
`Q.
`the Board of Trade for this 10-year period, what's
`important to you as a trader, what was important to you
`as a trader?
`So the market was always focused -- I mentioned
`A.
`earlier two bid, three bid, four.
`There's always an
`inside market, and those were the rules of the exchange.
`You couldn't trade outside the inside market.
`If you
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`have the stock market, you will see the quotes come the
`last traded price.
`That's always from the inside market
`which would be somebody's willing to buy them at three
`and somebody is willing to sell them at four, and they
`quote that as three bid at four and that's always -- and
`you can't trade a different price than what the best bid
`and the best offer are, and so everybody always
`concentrated on the inside market.
`Those were the
`rules.
`You had to, and that made sense because that's
`where all the trading was actually occurring.
`And that's how you traded when you were a trader
`Q.
`on the Board of Trade floor?
`Yes, absolutely.
`Everybody had to trade on the
`A.
`inside market.
`Now, did there come a time when you stopped live
`Q.
`trading on the Board of Trade floor?
`In 1997.
`Yes, in 1997.
`A.
`What did you do in 1997, what happened?
`Q.
`So a German futures exchange named EUREX, at the
`A.
`time, they were called BTB -- actually, they just
`changed their name to EUREX, and they actually had an
`electronic system that they had put together in '91, and
`And at that
`they worked on it through the years, right.
`time, I didn't know anything about it as far as the
`system.
`I knew about BTB and I knew about some of their
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`products, but they actually approached me and showed me
`on a laptop a working market, and I was very impressed.
`It had three major features that I really thought would
`totally beat open outcries, and I love open outcry, but
`it is what it is.
`First, the connection, the speed of
`light.
`So there is some distance, and this is in '97, I
`was very impressed.
`It was very fast.
`It was just like
`lightning, and the guy would show me.
`He would enter
`orders, and I could see how the market was reacting and
`so that part.
`Anonymity is -- to
`And then there was anonymous.
`me, a market would grow much more in anonymity.
`You can
`Obviously, on the floor there, is no anonymity.
`see the different traders, the different houses when you
`come in.
`Anonymity, people will bluff more.
`They will
`mix it up more because you can't trail them, you can't
`see what they're doing and race them in a way.
`You
`can't jump in front of them.
`So to me, I thought that
`was very good.
`And the third feature was the algorithm they used
`was FIFO, which stands for first in, first out, which is
`very simple, right.
`The order that goes in the first,
`that gets the priority in the order book.
`So if it's
`three bid at four, first in, first out.
`It's very
`simple, and I thought customers could adapt to it very
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`easily and catch on to laptops or desktops or however
`they wanted to enter orders, so I was very impressed.
`And at this point in time, what was your view of
`Q.
`electronic trading as you saw it versus trading on the
`floor that you had been doing for 10 years?
`I
`So I had seen them, I had played a little bit.
`A.
`don't know if played is the word.
`I traded a little bit
`late in the afternoons on a system called Project Made
`for the Board of Trade.
`It seemed like two or three
`years, '94, '95, I am not sure exactly.
`And I had seen
`Globex which was a CME after-hours system.
`These were
`after-hours systems.
`These weren't during the primary
`And their systems just weren't as good, they
`hours.
`didn't -- those three features, they didn't seem to have
`any of the three features.
`They didn't seem to be fast
`to me, they didn't use FIFO, and they weren't anonymous.
`So it was a big difference between the two markets, and
`I never had really thought that they -- that
`electronic -- I just didn't put much weight into
`electronic beating open outcry up until that point.
`It's one of those things where I grabbed it and I saw it
`on the laptop, and it just hit you right, and I said,
`oh, my gosh, this is going to totally make the floor
`extinct.
`So your view at that point was that the trading
`Q.
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`floor was going to become extinct?
`Yes.
`A.
`Your last year or two trading live at the Board
`Q.
`of Trade, were you successful in that time period?
`That was my best period ever.
`That last year and
`A.
`a half, I went from the floor point of view, I went on
`my best streak ever.
`That past year and a half was the
`most successful by far actually.
`Then in -- and when was this, 1997, you
`Q.
`mentioned?
`That started in '95, the hot -- the
`Right.
`A.
`little streak there.
`And did there come a time when you began
`Q.
`seriously electronic trading?
`Yes.
`Well, when they showed it to me, I
`A.
`basically just went -- I just stopped.
`I just said,
`listen, I'm through on the floor pronto because you
`always -- my view is -- if the market is going to go
`there, if it's going to go electronic, not that the
`board or the Merc were there, the Board of Trade or the
`Chicago Mercantile exchange, I knew it was a matter of
`time, so I want to go where it's going to go and I want
`to be prepared, so I just went cold turkey.
`Since that
`day, I have never stepped foot on the floor since then.
`Since that day you've never stepped foot on the
`Q.
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`trading floor of the Board of Trade; is that correct?
`Well, no, part of it is I love the floor, so I
`A.
`had to go cold turkey because it's -- the computers are
`a little more stoic, if you will, sort of, and the floor
`is very interactive and very camaraderie, it's very
`invigorating and it almost feels like you're outdoors.
`It's a very big arena and so I stopped at that point
`totally.
`Now, when you began electronic trading, trading
`Q.
`software, whose software did you use to trade?
`So Trading Technologies, they were based in
`A.
`Evanston, Illinois, and so actually the guy who showed
`me the EUREX demo showed me about Trading Technologies,
`soy went up there and saw their software.
`And was that your first connection with Trading
`Q.
`Technologies?
`Yes.
`A.
`And what -- you were trading the 10-year
`Q.
`treasuries live when you were on the floor.
`What were
`you trading electronically?
`The 10-year German Bund, which is the European
`A.
`fixed income contract out of Germany which is very --
`has some analogous with the actual 10-year treasury at
`the Board of Trade because they are both 10-year debt
`instruments with the government.
`They have some
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`different behavior, obviously they are different
`products, but there was some kinship and I kept up with
`the Bund over the years so that was the product I chose
`to trade.
`They had all different kinds of products.
`That's what I decided to trade and the 10-year in
`general is worldwide.
`That's sort of like the major
`stop, that's where the buying occurs.
`How did you do at first when you started
`Q.
`electronic trading?
`So the first six months I didn't do so well I got
`A.
`beat up pretty good.
`It wasn't disastrous, but there
`was learning curve electronically and also the German
`Bund, it's just a different product, right, even though
`it's a 10-year, there are some little different nuances
`to it and it just trades a little bit different so it
`took me a little bit to get used to it.
`Did you eventually get used to it, did you
`Q.
`eventually get the hang of it?
`At about the six-month part it totally turned
`A.
`around and I started doing real well in that climate as
`time went on.
`Now, you mentioned when you were a live floor
`Q.
`trader that you would participate in 20 percent of the
`What types of volume were you doing on
`trading volume.
`the 10-year Bund electronically at first?
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`Generally, maybe the first few weeks I didn't
`A.
`quite jump into that, but it didn't take long at all
`even when I was losing, I got up to that same volume
`very quickly in the Bund.
`My style of trading didn't
`really change a whole, whole lot as far as processing
`and buying stuff.
`And so 20 percent of the volume was a good figure
`Q.
`for your electronic trading with the Bund as well?
`Yes.
`I didn't trade the whole day on the Bund
`A.
`because the Bund would start at 1:00 a.m.
`Generally, I
`like keeping in touch with the U.S. markets.
`The U.S.
`markets didn't really become prime time until 7:20 a.m.,
`so I mostly traded starting at that time.
`So probably
`my volume in there was maybe 25 percent during the
`period I would trade, but they were putting volume
`obviously way before 7:00 a.m., like from 1:00 to 7:00,
`so in general I'm probably 15 percent of that because I
`trade 25 percent during my time period but as a whole
`part of that trading, my numbers would knock it down to
`about 15 percent.
`How about in comparison to kind of dollars, I
`Q.
`guess the German Bund wasn't in dollars, right?
`Right.
`A.
`How did the dollar volume you were trading
`Q.
`electronically at first on the German Bund compare to
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`the dollar volume that you were doing live in the pit at
`the Board of Trade?
`But the Bund
`Very similar right at first.
`A.
`started doing more and more volume.
`Electronics started
`really taking off and that contract became bigger than
`the Board of Trade contracts and so naturally my volume
`went up with the volume, so in fairly short order,
`probably it was getting up to probably twice as much as
`the Board of Trade.
`Let's put up on the screen if we could PTX 1916.
`Q.
`Could you tell the jury what this -- what this
`represents and they have -- they have what you can see
`on their screen and we have it over here as well, Mr.
`Brumfield?
`Should I look here?
`A.
`The setup is a little
`Wherever it's comfortable.
`Q.
`awkward for the witness.
`We have noticed that.
`Okay.
`A.
`Just in general terms, what are we looking at,
`Q.
`what is this?
`X_Trader was the
`These are X_Trader components.
`A.
`system that Trading Technologies had and these are
`components of X_Trader.
`Before we go through this specifically, were
`Q.
`these the components that you used at first in your
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`That means you were looking to buy and you would also be
`putting in an order when you clicked on this sell to pay
`123150.
`If you right clicked on it, you would be
`If
`actually selling that price.
`Same thing over here.
`you left click, you would be joining the sell over here
`and if you right click, you would be buying that offer.
`And I am not exactly sure, Paul, if the left click,
`right click exactly.
`I know you could do whatever you
`want to do within this screen as far as buying the bids
`and offers.
`You could either join the bid very simply
`or you could sell the bid or buy the offer very simply.
`And when you say click, is that just a single
`Q.
`click of the mouse?
`Yes, that was an option.
`A.
`And the cursor would be over the box you would be
`Q.
`clicking on?
`Yes.
`A.
`Was that a fast way to enter orders at the time,
`Q.
`Mr. Brumfield?
`In my view just from a raw point of
`Very fast.
`A.
`view, you can't enter orders any faster from just
`clicking and just going because you got your mouse
`always just sitting, so it's very easy to click here and
`click here and click here and click here and click here
`and click here.
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`When you were trading electronically using this
`Q.
`conventional software, was that how you typically
`entered orders?
`No.
`Immediately -- immediately when I saw the
`A.
`different components that X_Trader offered, trading that
`much volume, I was very active and so I would buy this
`price a lot, which is the offers over here and I would
`sell this price a lot.
`So immediately I knew I was
`going to be gun shy because if you think about it, in
`the exact instant you go to do this, every so often
`occasionally the number flips out from under you because
`these are dynamics, so it's always changing, the number
`flips on you.
`I mean and timing is very delicate and
`very precise in all of this, so you're really -- I mean,
`it's -- you're watching other markets and the
`interactions, so you can really sense when it's going to
`turn sometimes.
`I try to take it to a millionth degree
`to try to really get good at that timing, so I knew that
`every so often when I went to click to per se buy this
`price, that it was going to click out from under me and
`this was going to be seen up here and I was going to be
`And so the issue of getting the
`buying that price.
`wrong price, yes, that was an issue, but more central to
`my thought on which ticket I was going to use is speed,
`speed, speed, speed, speed.
`All I worked on for the
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`things I did over the years in the pit and in
`electronic, I could just list forever all the things I
`did to enhance speed in every which way possible.
`So I
`knew the gun shyness was going to make me slow, so
`indirectly getting the wrong price was going to make me
`hesitant on all my orders, even though it was only
`occasionally occurring that I was getting the wrong
`price, so --
`Mr. Brumfield, let me just see if I understand.
`Q.
`So with this screen, the market grid, you would
`occasionally get the wrong price because the prices
`would flip out from under you dynamically, and that's
`what made you gun shy about this screen?
`Yes, because confidence is everything in trading
`A.
`and like I try to look at things from a whole.
`Yes,
`yes, this is the rawest fastest way to enter orders, but
`if it made me hesitant sometimes, that's another factor
`of speed, right, and so that actually is going to slow
`me down on all my orders, the hesitation.
`And like I
`always believe in trying to control your own destiny the
`best you can and so that was hitting right at that
`philosophy and I knew that it was going to make me slow
`and hesitant, and so --
`And you couldn't control your own destiny with
`Q.
`the prices flipping from underneath you; is that right?
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`Most of the time it
`No, I couldn't all the time.
`A.
`was good, a big majority of the time, but it was -- made
`me gun shy a lot and I knew it was going to be an issue.
`Let's -- and Mr. Brumfield, I think it's working
`Q.
`out well with you just standing there for these initial
`slides.
`I'm sorry about that.
`No.
`A.
`I like to keep you on your feet.
`Q.
`If we could put up the next slide, PTX 1274.
`Just remind us again what this is, Mr. Brumfield?
`Okay.
`So this is no view of the market
`A.
`whatsoever.
`This is a -- the other one is totally
`dynamic view of the market.
`This is just what they call
`an order ticket, just