throbber
Benjamin Goldberg, Ph.D.
`
`January 18, 2016
`
`Page 77
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`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`---------------------------------------X
`GOOGLE, INC.,
`
`-against-
`
`Petitioner,
`Case No.:
`CBM 2015-0040
`
`CONTENTGUARD HOLDINGS, INC.,
`Patent Owner.
`VOLUME II
`---------------------------------------X
`January 18, 2016
`9:34 a.m.
`
`Continued Deposition of
`BENJAMIN GOLDBERG, PH.D, held at the
`offices of Kaye Scholer, LLP, 250 West
`55th Street, New York, New York, pursuant
`to Notice, before Joelle Falsetta, a
`Notary Public of the State of New York.
`
`U.S. Legal Support, Inc.
`(312) 236-8352
`Patent Owner ContentGuard Holdings, Inc. - Exhibit 2023, p. 77
`
`

`
`Benjamin Goldberg, Ph.D.
`
`January 18, 2016
`
`Page 78
`
` A P P E A R A N C E S:
`
`KAYE SCHOLER, LLP
` Attorneys for Petitioner
` 250 West 55th Street
` New York, New York 10019
`BY: ROBERT LAURENZI, ESQ.
`
`FITCH EVEN TABIN & FLANNERY, LLP
` Attorneys for Patent owner
` 120 South LaSalle Street, Suite 201
` Chicago, Illinois 60603
`BY: TIMOTHY P. MALONEY, ESQ.
`(Tim@fitcheven.com)
`
`Also present via telephone:
`Michael Franzinger, Apple
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`U.S. Legal Support, Inc.
`(312) 236-8352
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`

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`Benjamin Goldberg, Ph.D.
`
`January 18, 2016
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`Page 79
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`B E N J A M I N G O L D B E R G,
`being first duly sworn by Joelle
`Falsetta, a Notary Public of the State of
`New York, was examined and testified as
`follows:
` Q. Good morning, Dr. Goldberg.
` A. Good morning.
` Q. We met before at your
` previous deposition; is that right?
` A. Yes.
` Q. You still remember the
` overall procedure of the deposition?
` A. I do, thank you.
` Q. I'll skip through those
` formalities since you understand them.
` We only have a few documents
` that I'll be asking you questions
` about today. So I'll just hand you
` them up front.
` MR. MALONEY: Let me start
` by asking the court reporter to
` mark as Exhibit 6 of this
` deposition, a declaration of
` Dr. Goldberg, dated December 21,
` 2015.
`
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`

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`Benjamin Goldberg, Ph.D.
`
`January 18, 2016
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`Page 80
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` (Declaration marked for
` identification, Goldberg Exhibit
` 6.)
` Q. Do you recognize what has
` been handed to you and marked as
` Goldberg 6 as your December 21st
` declaration?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Let me hand you what has
` been previously marked at your prior
` deposition as Goldberg 2.
` Do you recognize that as the
` '280 Patent involved in this
` proceeding?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And let me also hand you
` what has been marked as Goldberg
` Exhibit 3.
` Do you recognize that as the
` Stefik Patent in this proceeding?
` A. Yes.
` Q. I think most of my
` questions will be confined to those
` documents.
` So turning to Exhibit 6, your
`
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`

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`Benjamin Goldberg, Ph.D.
`
`January 18, 2016
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`Page 81
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` second declaration. I read through
` some of these additional examples that
` you provided and I have some questions
` about those.
` And I ask you to turn to page
` four and the section beginning
` paragraph nine, you have some
` discussion of an example of a set of,
` two sets of usage rights that you set
` forth here in the table appearing in
` paragraph nine; is that right?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Do you need time to
` familiarize yourself with what you
` said here or are you comfortable
` proceeding?
` A. We could proceed.
` Q. I understand generally the
` points you make. I just want to kind
` of see where we can agree if at
` anything.
` And let me begin by just
` confirming what we have here in the
` table.
` Am I correct that what you are
`
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`

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`Benjamin Goldberg, Ph.D.
`
`January 18, 2016
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`Page 82
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` describing here is an example in which
` first set of usage rights includes the
` right to play, copy and loan work one?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And am I also correct that
` for work two, the set of rights that
` you set forth includes the same play
` right?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And does it include the
` same copy right?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And am I correct that the
` loan right associated with work two
` differs from the loan right associated
` with work one, in that it also
` includes a next-set-of-rights
` parameters?
` A. That is correct.
` Q. Is that the only difference
` that you are intending to draw here
` between the set of rights associated
` with works one and two, is this the
` next-set-of-rights parameter for the
` loan right for work two?
`
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`

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`Benjamin Goldberg, Ph.D.
`
`January 18, 2016
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`Page 83
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` A. Unless I specifically set
` forth something in my declaration,
` that is really what I was focusing on
` is this next-set-of-rights.
` Q. Do we agree that the
` next-set-of-rights element is
` providing parameters associated with
` the work two loan right?
` A. It is providing -- well, I
` don't know if I would call it
` parameters.
` It proceeds a set of rights
` associated with the loan that is when
` exercised, generates new rights for
` the loaned copy.
` Q. But within the rights
` definition scheme disclosed in Stefik,
` the next-set-of-rights data appears
` within the parameters that define the
` loan right; correct?
` A. The next-set-of-rights is a
` field of the loan right, yes.
` Q. And what makes the loan
` right associated with work one
` different than the loan right
`
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`

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`Benjamin Goldberg, Ph.D.
`
`January 18, 2016
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`Page 84
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` associated with work two in this
` example, it is in fact that the loan
` right of work two includes these
` next-set-of-rights parameters within
` its definition data; is that fair?
` A. That is a fair
` characterization.
` Q. And do we agree that
` exercising a loan right results in
` transferring content from one
` repository to another?
` A. We agree on that, yes.
` Q. And one of the points
` you're making is that it not only
` transfers content but it also creates
` new rights for the transferred copy;
` is that fair?
` A. The way I put it is that
` the next-set-of-rights that is
` included within the specifications of
` the loan right when exercised, creates
` new rights for the loaned copy.
` Q. Let me focus you in on the
` loan right associated with work one.
` A. Okay.
`
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`

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`Benjamin Goldberg, Ph.D.
`
`January 18, 2016
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`Page 85
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` Q. Which does not have a
` next-set-of-rights field associated
` with it; right?
` A. Yes.
` Q. You provided an opinion I
` believe somewhere in these paragraphs,
` that exercising the loan right
` associated with work one also creates
` a new set of rights to be associated
` with the transferred copy of the work;
` is that your opinion?
` A. Can you point me to the --
` Q. Yes.
` A. -- where I said it.
` Q. Well would you take a look
` at paragraph 10 of the declaration,
` specifically the second sentence which
` starts at the top of page five.
` A. It starts thus?
` Q. Yes. It reads, "Thus for
` work one, the repository will create
` play, copy and loan usage rights for
` the new copy of the work"?
` A. Yes, that is because in
` Stefik, if you don't specify a
`
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`

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`Benjamin Goldberg, Ph.D.
`
`January 18, 2016
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`Page 86
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` next-set-of-rights, then the same
` rights are inherited by the new copy,
` by the loan copy.
` Q. Is it your opinion that
` that inheritance of the rights by the
` new copy is a way of creating new
` rights for the new copy of the work?
` A. I haven't really focused on
` that. Sitting here, I'm not sure I
` would have an opinion on that, whether
` it would constitute new rights when
` you are just giving the same rights to
` the loaned copy.
` So that wasn't the basis for any
` opinion on meta-rights or any new or
` generated rights. I haven't thought
` through that aspect of it.
` Q. But do you stand by the
` statement in the sentence I referred
` you to, that in the processing of the
` loan right for work one, play, copy
` and loan usage rights are created for
` the new copy of the work?
` A. Yes, and in your question
` you asked if these are new rights and
`
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`

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`Benjamin Goldberg, Ph.D.
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`January 18, 2016
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`Page 87
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` I don't really have an opinion whether
` they are new rights or not.
` Q. But it is your opinion,
` correct, that both in the case of the
` loan right associated with work one
` and also with regard to the loan right
` associated with work two, the exercise
` of those loan rights results in rights
` being created for the transferred copy
` of the work?
` A. The way I would phrase it
` is that for work two, the exercise of
` the loan right ultimately causes the
` exercise of the next-set-of-rights.
` And the exercise in the
` next-set-of-rights creates the new
` right in this case print and destroys
` or deletes the rights copy and loan in
` the new copy of the work.
` So in my opinion, it is the
` exercise of the -- for work two the
` next-set-of-rights, that causes the
` adding of new rights and deleting of
` existing rights.
` For work one, I view the rights
`
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`

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`Benjamin Goldberg, Ph.D.
`
`January 18, 2016
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`Page 88
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` that are given to the new copy are
` just the same rights as before. So
` they are inherited from existing work
` in work one.
` Q. Is it correct that with
` respect to the loan right of work two,
` the next-set-of-rights data cannot be
` processed without exercising the
` encapsulating loan rate?
` A. I think that is fair. In
` Stefik there is no explicit disclosure
` of exercising the next-set-of-rights
` without exercising the loan right in
` this case.
` But as we discussed earlier, I
` thought that would be obvious.
`
`
` Q. In terms of what StefikQ. In terms of what Stefik
`
` actually explicitly discloses, weactually explicitly discloses, we
`
` agree it does not disclose the abilityagree it does not disclose the ability
`
` to process the next-set-of-rightsto process the next-set-of-rights
`
` field without exercising thefield without exercising the
`
` encapsulating usage right?encapsulating usage right?
`
`
` A. Correct.A. Correct.
` Q. Thank you.
` Is it correct that Stefik
`
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`Benjamin Goldberg, Ph.D.
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`January 18, 2016
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`Page 89
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` discloses a set procedure for
` exercising a loan usage right?
` MR. LAURENZI: Objection
` to the form.
` A. I would call it a
` description of how it works in Stefik.
` I don't have a specific recollection
` of whether it was a set procedure as
` you would say. But certainly there is
` a description of how the loan works.
` Q. And that probably wasn't a
` very good question.
` But the point I was trying to
` get to is, is it correct that the
` procedure, that in Stefik the
` procedure that a repository follows in
` the exercising of a loan right,
` ultimately differs if the
` next-set-of-rights parameter is
` populated compared to the scenario
` where there is no next-set-of-rights
` parameter?
` A. I think that is fair. As I
` discussed, if there is no specified
` parameter, then the rights are
`
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`Benjamin Goldberg, Ph.D.
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`January 18, 2016
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`Page 90
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` inherited unmodified. Where as if
` there is a next-set-of-rights
` parameter or field, then the rights
` are added or deleted or replaced from
` the loaned copy as specified in that
` next-set-of-rights field.
` Q. So in either case the
` repository must look to see if there
` is a next-set-of-rights parameter and
` if so the specifics of that parameter
` in order to determine what rights are
` to be associated with the transferred
` copy?
` A. I consider it a field
` rather than a parameter.
` Q. Okay.
` A. But it is true that the
` repository would look to see if there
` was a next-set-of-rights field.
` Q. And if there is no
` next-set-of-rights field, the
` repository still creates rights
` associated with the transferred copy,
` at least in circumstances such as your
` example work one; right?
`
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`Benjamin Goldberg, Ph.D.
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`January 18, 2016
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` A. Well the way I think of it,
` the way it is described in Stefik is
` that the work has rights that are
` specified in the so-called D block,
` description block.
` And those rights would then be
` unmodified. It would be passed into
` the new copy without modification.
` Q. Do you consider a loan
` right -- let me take you back to this
` example of work one and work two in
` the associated set of rights that you
` set forth, paragraph nine.
` You consider these two loan
` rights different versions of a loan
` right, is that a fair way to
` articulate it?
` A. Yes, that is fair. Where
` the second loan right, the work two
` loan right has a next-set-of-rights
` field specified.
`
`
` Q. Does Stefik disclose anyQ. Does Stefik disclose any
`
` method for creating rights for amethod for creating rights for a
`
` transferred copy of a digital worktransferred copy of a digital work
`
` outside of the processing of a usageoutside of the processing of a usage
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`Benjamin Goldberg, Ph.D.
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`January 18, 2016
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`Page 92
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`
` right?right?
`
`
` A. Not that I recall. I'm notA. Not that I recall. I'm not
`
` sure how your question differs from asure how your question differs from a
`
` previous question that you asked.previous question that you asked.
`
` But the answer is in Stefik inBut the answer is in Stefik in
`
` terms of explicit disclosure, theterms of explicit disclosure, the
`
` creation of a new set of rights for acreation of a new set of rights for a
`
` new copy of a work, occurs when anew copy of a work, occurs when a
`
` different usage right is exercised.different usage right is exercised.
` Q. Moving forward in your
` declaration to the section discussion
` that begins on paragraph 13 on page
` six.
` In here this paragraph begins by
` your statement that the Stefik '012
` Patent illustrates that a participant
` in a distribution scheme can choose
` whether to exercise a
` next-set-of-rights by selecting from
` multiple versions of the next usage
` right. And furthermore the use of the
` NSOR can be subject to conditions.
` So I just want to understand
` clearly what you mean by the first
` part of that sentence about selecting
`
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`January 18, 2016
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` whether to exercise the
` next-set-of-rights.
` Am I correct that the, that the
` only way one could choose to exercise
` a next-set-of-rights in Stefik is as
` you say here by selecting to exercise
` a particular usage right?
` A. I'm sorry, I lost the
` question. The reason I lost the
` question is because you started by
` saying that I could select a
` next-set-of-rights.
` But my declaration says you
` could exercise a next-set-of-rights by
` selecting multiple versions of the
` usage rights.
` Q. Let me ask another
` question.
` A. Thank you.
` Q. You're making the point a
` participant can choose whether to
` exercise an NSOR by selecting from
` multiple versions of the same usage
` right; correct?
` A. That is correct.
`
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`January 18, 2016
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`Page 94
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` Q. And then below you give
` examples of two versions of a loan
` right?
` A. Correct.
` Q. And you make the point that
` these loan rights have different or
` are different with respect to the
` next-set-of-rights field and therefore
` depending on which loan right is
` exercised, that is affects which
` next-set-of-rights field is processed?
` A. That is correct.
` Q. And so I guess my question
` is, is that the only mechanism that
` you found in Stefik for allowing a
` participant to choose whether to
` exercise a particular
` next-set-of-rights field, namely by
` selecting a particular usage right
` version that has the desired
` next-set-of-rights field?
` A. This is the example that I
` focused on. I'm afraid I don't
` recollect unless it is in my
` declaration. I don't have a
`
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`January 18, 2016
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` recollection of whether Stefik does or
` does not give another example of where
` the recipient can choose one usage
` right or another in their for cause
` one next-set-of-rights or a different
` next-set-of-rights to be exercised. I
` don't recall if Stefik has any other
` examples that were given.
` Q. Does Stefik permit one to
` choose to exercise a
` next-set-of-rights field in any manner
` other than by selecting an associated
` usage right?
` A. Not that I could recall. I
` wasn't trying to be exhaustive but I
` don't recall an example where the
` recipient can choose a
` next-set-of-rights without choosing
` the accompanying usage right.
` Q. In the example that you
` provided in paragraph 13 where there
` are two alternative loan rights, do
` you know who it is that is allowed to
` make the selection that you're
` describing?
`
`U.S. Legal Support, Inc.
`(312) 236-8352
`Patent Owner ContentGuard Holdings, Inc. - Exhibit 2023, p. 95
`
`

`
`Benjamin Goldberg, Ph.D.
`
`January 18, 2016
`
`Page 96
`
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` I guess a more specific
` questions is it the requesting
` repository that makes the selection
` among the alternative loan rights or
` is it the requested repository that
` receives the request that makes that
` selection?
` A. In reading it, it was
` apparent to me that because the
` selection of one loan right or another
` affects the fee that is to be paid,
` that the selection would likely be
` based on what the recipient is willing
` to pay for it.
` Q. Let me ask you then about,
` this starts at paragraph 14 and
` continues on through paragraphs 15 and
` 16, another example that you provided.
` Would you take a look at that
` section. On the -- so beginning at
` paragraph 15, the declaration says,
` "Consider the following exemplary set
` of usage rights and then on the top of
` page eight, a set forth set of rights.
` Are you familiar with that?
`
`U.S. Legal Support, Inc.
`(312) 236-8352
`Patent Owner ContentGuard Holdings, Inc. - Exhibit 2023, p. 96
`
`

`
`Benjamin Goldberg, Ph.D.
`
`January 18, 2016
`
`Page 97
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` A. Yes.
` Q. Is this example set forth
` explicitly in Stefik or is this
` something that you came up with based
` on the teachings of Stefik generally?
` A. This is something that an
` example I created based on the
` teachings of Stefik, particularly the
` grammar for specifying rights.
` Q. So am I correct that one of
` the things that you are illustrating
` here is that the two alternative copy
` rights differ in that the
` next-set-of-rights field associated
` with each is different?
` A. Well there is also the fee
` that is different.
` Q. Okay.
` A. But of interest, certainly
` the next-set-of-rights fields are
` different.
` Q. And am I correct that the
` first illustrated copy, right of your
` example, when exercised would result
` in the rights associated with the
`
`U.S. Legal Support, Inc.
`(312) 236-8352
`Patent Owner ContentGuard Holdings, Inc. - Exhibit 2023, p. 97
`
`

`
`Benjamin Goldberg, Ph.D.
`
`January 18, 2016
`
`Page 98
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` transferred copy not including the
` right to copy the work further?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And that is because the
` next-set-of-rights field specifies
` delete the copy right?
` A. Correct.
` Q. And is it also correct that
` the second illustrated copy usage
` right in your example would result in
` the transferred copy of the work not
` having a copy usage right but having a
` print usage right?
` A. Yes, in the sense that when
` the copy is made, the
` next-set-of-rights is exercised to add
` the printing and the copying. So the
` results of the copy would have a print
` right, would not have a copy right.
` Q. And am I correct that in --
` well let's take the second example
` that you just spoke to, the second
` copy right of your example.
` It is correct, is it not, that
` the digital work itself must be copied
`
`U.S. Legal Support, Inc.
`(312) 236-8352
`Patent Owner ContentGuard Holdings, Inc. - Exhibit 2023, p. 98
`
`

`
`Benjamin Goldberg, Ph.D.
`
`January 18, 2016
`
`Page 99
`
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`
` from one repository to another as a
` necessary condition of the print usage
` right being created for the
` transferred copy?
` MR. LAURENZI: Objection
` to the form.
` A. My reading of Stefik is
` that when the copy right is exercised,
` then the new copy is created and at
` that point the next-set-of-rights
` would also be exercised.
` And so if no copy was created,
` that means that the copy usage rights
` was not exercised and therefore the
` next-set-of-rights would also not be
` exercised. So you would not have
` print capability, the print right
` added to the new copy if you didn't in
` fact create a new copy.
` Q. And so in Stefik's scheme
` it is not possible to, it is not
` possible for a first repository to
` allow the second repository to create
` a print right for a digital work
` without transferring a copy of the
`
`U.S. Legal Support, Inc.
`(312) 236-8352
`Patent Owner ContentGuard Holdings, Inc. - Exhibit 2023, p. 99
`
`

`
`Benjamin Goldberg, Ph.D.
`
`January 18, 2016
`
`Page 100
`
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`
` digital work to the second repository;
` correct?
` A. In terms of Stefik's
` explicit disclosure, I agree with
` that.
` Q. Would you turn forward to
` the section that begins at paragraph
` 19, page nine.
` A. Okay.
` Q. And this section of your
` declaration is discussing conditions;
` is that right?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And you give some examples
` of conditions, which must be satisfied
` for a loan usage right to be exercised
` to completion; is that fair?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Am I correct that if the
` conditions associated with the loan
` usage right are satisfied, that the
` next-set-of-rights field will
` automatically be processed?
` A. Yes, in the sense that if
` all the conditions are satisfied and
`
`U.S. Legal Support, Inc.
`(312) 236-8352
`Patent Owner ContentGuard Holdings, Inc. - Exhibit 2023, p. 100
`
`

`
`Benjamin Goldberg, Ph.D.
`
`January 18, 2016
`
`Page 101
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`1111
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`
`
` the usage right that encapsulates the
` next-set-of-rights is exercised, then
` the next-set-of-rights will be
` exercised as well.
`
`
` Q. So in other words, StefikQ. So in other words, Stefik
`
` does not disclose placing additionaldoes not disclose placing additional
`
` conditions on the processing of theconditions on the processing of the
`
` next-set-of-right field itself;next-set-of-right field itself;
`
` correct?correct?
`
` MR. LAURENZI: ObjectionMR. LAURENZI: Objection
`
` to the form.to the form.
`
`
` A. Not that I could recall.A. Not that I could recall.
`
` That is, I don't recall Stefik whetherThat is, I don't recall Stefik whether
`
` the grammar for example allowsthe grammar for example allows
`
` additional conditions to be placed onadditional conditions to be placed on
`
` the exercise of thethe exercise of the
`
` next-set-of-rights, that are not alsonext-set-of-rights, that are not also
`
` placed on the encapsulating usageplaced on the encapsulating usage
`
` right.right.
` Q. Okay, thank you.
` Would you turn to the section
` that starts on paragraph 25.
` A. Okay.
` Q. In this section you are
` discussing a usage right called Embed;
`
`U.S. Legal Support, Inc.
`(312) 236-8352
`Patent Owner ContentGuard Holdings, Inc. - Exhibit 2023, p. 101
`
`

`
`Benjamin Goldberg, Ph.D.
`
`January 18, 2016
`
`Page 102
`
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`
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`
` is that right?
` A. Yes.
` Q. What is your understanding
` of the Embed usage rights?
` MR. LAURENZI: Objection
` to the form.
` A. Generally speaking it
` allows the work in question to be
` embedded in another work, to become
` part of another work.
` Q. And you didn't discuss the
` Embed usage right in your earlier
` declaration; correct?
` A. That is correct.
`
`
` Q. I ask you to turn toQ. I ask you to turn to
`
` Exhibit 3, the Stefik Patent.Exhibit 3, the Stefik Patent.
`
` Your declaration cites to columnYour declaration cites to column
`
` 41 starting at line 54. I ask you to41 starting at line 54. I ask you to
`
` turn to that part of Stefik.turn to that part of Stefik.
`
` Do you see where it is aDo you see where it is a
`
` subsection for the Embed transactionsubsection for the Embed transaction
`
` in column 41?in column 41?
`
`
` A. Yes.A. Yes.
`
`
` Q. If you're not already,Q. If you're not already,
`
` would you familiarize yourself withwould you familiarize yourself with
`
`U.S. Legal Support, Inc.
`(312) 236-8352
`Patent Owner ContentGuard Holdings, Inc. - Exhibit 2023, p. 102
`
`

`
`Benjamin Goldberg, Ph.D.
`
`January 18, 2016
`
`Page 103
`
`
`11
`
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`
`
` the five or six paragraphs there thatthe five or six paragraphs there that
`
` discuss the processing of an Embeddiscuss the processing of an Embed
`
` transaction?transaction?
`
`
` A. Okay.A. Okay.
`
`
` Q. Okay, it indicates thatQ. Okay, it indicates that
`
` column 41, lines 59 through about 61,column 41, lines 59 through about 61,
`
` that the request message to trigger anthat the request message to trigger an
`
` Embed transaction --Embed transaction --
`
`
` A. Yes.A. Yes.
`
`
` Q. -- includes among otherQ. -- includes among other
`
` things, a destination address.things, a destination address.
`
` Do you agree with me?Do you agree with me?
`
`
` A. I do.A. I do.
`
`
` Q. And in column 42, it isQ. And in column 42, it is
`
` describing a server transmits thedescribing a server transmits the
`
` requested contents of the data to therequested contents of the data to the
`
` requester according to therequester according to the
`
` transmission protocol.transmission protocol.
`
` Do you agree with me?Do you agree with me?
`
`
` A. I do.A. I do.
` Q. This indicates then that
` the Embed transaction involves
` transferring digital work content from
` a server to a destination address; is
` that right?
`
`U.S. Legal Support, Inc.
`(312) 236-8352
`Patent Owner ContentGuard Holdings, Inc. - Exhibit 2023, p. 103
`
`

`
`Benjamin Goldberg, Ph.D.
`
`January 18, 2016
`
`Page 104
`
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`
` MR. LAURENZI: Objection
` to the form.
` A. Well this -- well, there is
` this transmission to the requesting,
` to the requesting repository.
` But the embedding itself happens
` in the next step, starting at line 10
` of column 42.
` Q. Okay, where it reads that
` the requester records the content data
` and usage rights and embeds the work
` in the destination file?
` A. Yes.
` Q. But it is correct, is it
` not, that the embedding transaction
` itself involves transferring the
` content from one server to another --
` one repository to another and then the
` receiving repository embeds the work
` in the destination file?
` MR. LAURENZI: Objection
` to the form.
` A. The way I read this is
` that, it is likely that it is the
` copying. Exercise of the copy usage
`
`U.S. Legal Support, Inc.
`(312) 236-8352
`Patent Owner ContentGuard Holdings, Inc. - Exhibit 2023, p. 104
`
`

`
`Benjamin Goldberg, Ph.D.
`
`January 18, 2016
`
`Page 105
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` right would generate a new copy and
` then the Embed would allow the
` embedding in a separate work.
` It is not clear to me that the
` Embed by itself would cause the
` copying of the digital work from the
` first repository to the requesting
` repository.
` Q. So are you, do you disagree
` that this section begins at column 41,
` line 53 and carries over to the top of
` column 42 line 14.
` Do you disagree that is
` describing the Embed transaction?
` A. No, the way I read it is
` that the Embed transaction
` specifically relates to the paragraph
` at line 10 of column 42, after the
` copying has occurred. It is not clear
` to me that an Embed without a copy
` would actually work.
`
`
` Q. But you don't deny theQ. But you don't deny the
`
` words that are here, do you, that saywords that are here, do you, that say
`
` that the Embed transaction involvesthat the Embed transaction involves
`
` the server transmitting the requestedthe server transmitting the requested
`
`U.S. Legal Support, Inc.
`(312) 236-8352
`Patent Owner ContentGuard Holdings, Inc. - Exhibit 2023, p. 105
`
`

`
`Benjamin Goldberg, Ph.D.
`
`January 18, 2016
`
`Page 106
`
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`
`
` content of the data to the requester?content of the data to the requester?
`
`
` A. I agree that theA. I agree that the
`
` description involving the transmittingdescription involving the transmitting
`
` of the requested contents are withinof the requested contents are within
`
` the Embed transaction section of thisthe Embed transaction section of this
`
` disclosure.disclosure.
` Q. And you gave an opinion in
` your declaration that the Embed
` transaction when exercised does not
` result in actions to content.
` But that opinion is inconsistent
` with this disclosure of the Embed
` transaction; isn't it?
` A. I don't think so. So if
` you look at the example in paragraph
` 27 of my declaration, you see that it
` has the copy, the copy right and then
` has the Embed right. So I view the
` copying -- in my reading of this, the
` copying and the embedding as
` performing two parts of the
` description starting at column 41,
` line 54 of the Stefik.
` Q. The example that you
` r

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