UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`Page 186
`
` LIBERTY MUTUAL INSURANCE )
` COMPANY, ) No. CBM2012-00002
` ) CBM2012-00004 (JL)
` Petitioner, ) Patent 6,064,970
` )
` vs. ) No. CBM2013-0004 (JL)
` ) Patent 8,090,598
` PROGRESSIVE CASUALTY )
` INSURANCE COMPANY, ) No. CBM2012-0003
` ) CBM2013-0009 (JL)
` Patent Owner. ) Patent 8,140,358
` ______________________________)
`
` VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF SCOTT ANDREWS
` Palo Alto, California
` Tuesday, September 24, 2013
` Volume 2
`
`Reported by:
`LESLIE ROCKWOOD, RPR, CSR 3462
`Job No. 65807
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
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`Page 311
`relating to car maintenance or management change. So
`that seems to me to be about as real time as it's going
`to get.
` Q. Let me direct your attention to paragraph 44 of
`your rebuttal declaration.
` A. Okay.
` Q. So here you're providing opinions on whether
`Mr. Zatkovich is qualified to opine on certain subjects;
`correct?
` A. That's correct.
` Q. So in this paragraph, are you opining that his
`testimony, as a matter of law, should be excluded?
` A. What I'm saying here is that the things that he
`appears to be opining on are things related to cost
`determinations and generating the use of an actuarial
`class within an insurance context or generating a rating
`factor and that he's not presented himself in his report
`as being an insurance expert. He's presented himself as
`being a technical expert.
` Q. You're not an expert on whether or not
`Mr. Zatkovich's testimony is admissible, are you?
` A. No.
` Q. Okay. So let's turn to paragraph 50 of your
`rebuttal declaration.
` A. Okay.
`
`Page 313
`from each cell site to the public telephone network.
`You don't go from cell site to cell site.
` So I don't think that I would call a cellular
`network -- it's certainly a communications link, which
`is what's referred to in Figure 4 of the '650
`application, but it's not a distributed network which
`has a variety of resources and services that are not all
`in the same box the way the distributed network of the
`'358 patent is described.
` Q. Just to be clear, you don't think a cellular
`phone network has a variety of resources or services
`that are not all in the same box?
` A. The cellular telephone network itself?
` Q. Right.
` A. The cellular telephone network is a bay station
`that connects a cellular link to the telephone network,
`and there certainly are services, but they are services
`associated with managing and delivering a call or
`routing data to some place outside the network. They
`are not the distributed network that is described in the
`'358 patent, which has -- well, it's actually not really
`described here very well, either, I guess.
` Anyway, the cellular network is definitely
`distributed. It's a different kind of network than I
`think is -- is referenced in the '358 patent. It's a
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`Page 312
` Q. And here you state your opinion that Figure 4
`of the '650 application depicts a communications link
`and an operations control center but does not disclose
`that the link is configured to transfer selected vehicle
`data from the in-vehicle memory to a distributed network
`and a server.
` Do you see that?
` A. I see that.
` Q. Is a cellular phone network a distributed
`network?
` A. Not in the context of the distributed network
`and server of the patent.
` Q. Not in the context of the distributed network
`of the '358 patent?
` A. That's right. A distributed network and server
`would be a system that had a network with a variety of
`components attached to it, some of which might be a
`server, some of which might be data storage,
`computational engines, et cetera. A cellular system is
`a communications network.
` Q. And it's distributed; right?
` A. I wouldn't actually say that. If you said that
`it was distributed, then you would have different
`components located at different parts of the network.
`But a cellular network is actually like a star: You go
`
`Page 314
`communications link, and there may be network aspects
`associated with it, but I don't think that by saying
`that there's a reference to a cellular network in
`Figure 4 that that is the same as the distributed
`network and server described in the claims of the '358
`patent.
` Q. Is it your testimony that servers aren't used
`in cellular networks?
` A. As I said earlier, if there is a server that's
`used in a cellular network, it would be something
`associated with handling the billing and various
`administrative aspects of handling the call.
` If you were to go use a service with a
`smartphone over a cellular network, the server that
`you're going to is not part of the cellular network.
`It's on the internet somewhere.
` Q. Is transmission of data by cellular
`communication a transmission over a distributed network?
` MR. MYERS: Objection. 402, 403.
` THE WITNESS: It is transmission over a
`communications network, but it is not transmission to a
`distributed network and server.
`BY MR. WAMSLEY:
` Q. For the reasons you've mentioned previously; is
`that right?
`
`33 (Pages 311 to 314)
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580