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`F O R T H E P L A I N T I F F 'S :
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`E R I C C O L E
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`C R O S S - E X A M B Y M R . P O P L A W S K I ( R E S .) P . 7 1 2
`R E D I R E C T E X A M B Y M R . A N D R E P . 7 3 1
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`D E P O S I T I O N V I D E O S :
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`T Y L E R A N D E R S O N P . 7 4 2
`G A R Y T O M I C P . 7 4 2
`J O H N A H L A N D E R P . 7 4 2
`C H R I S L A R S E N P . 7 4 3
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`M I C H A E L M I T Z E N M A C H E R
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`D I R E C T E X A M B Y M R . A N D R E P . 7 4 4
`C R O S S - E X A M B Y M R . P O P L A W S K I P . 8 5 9
`R E D I R E C T E X A M B Y M R . A N D R E P . 8 9 5
`R E C R O S S E X A M B Y M R . P O P L A W S K I P . 9 0 0
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`D E P O S I T I O N O F S T E V E N S C H O E N F E L D P . 9 0 1
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`I V A N C H A P E R O T
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`D I R E C T E X A M B Y M S . L E E P . 9 0 3
`C R O S S - E X A M B Y M R . P O P L A W S K I P . 9 0 9
`R E D I R E C T E X A M B Y M S . L E E P . 9 1 2
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`UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
`FOR THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA
`SAN JOSE DIVISION
`
`FINJAN, INC, A DELAWARE
`CORPORATION,
` PLAINTIFF,
` VS.
`BLUE COAT SYSTEMS, INC., A
`DELAWARE CORPORATION,
` DEFENDANT.
`
`CASE NO. CV-13-03999-BLF
`SAN JOSE, CALIFORNIA
`JULY 24, 2015
`VOLUME 4
`PAGES 679 - 915
`
`FOR THE PLAINTIFF:
`
`TRANSCRIPT OF TRIAL
`BEFORE THE HONORABLE BETH LABSON FREEMAN
`UNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE AND A JURY
`A-P-P-E-A-R-A-N-C-E-S
`KRAMER, LEVIN, NAFTALIS & FRANKEL,
`LLP
`BY: PAUL J. ANDRE
` LISA KOBIALKA
` JAMES HANNAH
` KRISTOPHER KASTENS
` HANNAH LEE
`990 MARSH ROAD
`MENLO PARK, CALIFORNIA 94025
`
`
`FOR THE DEFENDANT:
`
`WILSON, SONSINI, GOODRICH & ROSATI
`BY: EDWARD POPLAWSKI
` OLIVIA KIM
` VERA ELSON
`633 WEST FIFTH STREET, 15TH FLOOR
`LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA 90071
` (APPEARANCES CONTINUED ON THE NEXT PAGE.)
`OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER:
`IRENE L. RODRIGUEZ, CSR, RMR, CRR
`CERTIFICATE NUMBER 8074
` PROCEEDINGS RECORDED BY MECHANICAL STENOGRAPHY,
`TRANSCRIPT PRODUCED WITH COMPUTER.
`
`UNITED STATES COURT REPORTERS
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`680
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`A P P E A R A N C E S : ( C O N T ')
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`A L S O P R E S E N T :
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` J I M H O Y
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` G E O F F T H O M A S
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` P H I L H A R T S T E I N
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` J U L I E M A R - S P I N O L A
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`UNITED STATES COURT REPORTERS
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`1 of 140 sheets
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`Page 679 to 682 of 915
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`Q.
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`A.
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`CAN WE PLEASE SHOW THAT DEMONSTRATIVE.
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`INCLUDES ONE OR MORE REFERENCES TO SOFTWARE COMPONENTS REQUIRED
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`SO OVER HERE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE PROXYSG AND PROXYAV
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`TO BE EXECUTED BY THE DOWNLOADABLE?
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`AND REMEMBER THAT STANDS FOR ANTI-VIRUS.
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`PROXYSG WAS A PRECURSOR, I GUESS, TO THE CAS PRODUCT, THE
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`A.
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`Q.
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`IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THAT HAS BEEN STIPULATED.
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`IS IT YOUR OPINION, NONETHELESS, THAT THE PROXYSG AND THE
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`CONTENT ANALYSIS SYSTEM, THAT WE HEARD ABOUT EARLIER IN THE
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`PROXYAV PRODUCTS MEETS THE LIMITATION OF CLAIM 9?
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`CASE.
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`A.
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`YES. SO AS WE HAVE SEEN THE PROXYSG WILL DOWNLOAD A FILE,
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`HERE THE USER WILL SEND A REQUEST TO PROXYSG AND AT SOME
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`AND THAT FILE MAY CONTAIN ONE OR MORE SOFTWARE COMPONENTS THAT
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`Case 3:17-cv-05659-WHA Document 432-24 Filed 04/11/19 Page 3 of 5
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`POINT IN THE PROCESS THE PROXYSG WILL GO ON THE INTERNET AND
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`ARE TO BE EXECUTED.
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`GET THE FILE.
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`Q.
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`AND IS THAT OPINION BASED ON YOUR REVIEW OF THE
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`AND AH. HERE'S THE FILE ON THE INTERNET, THE NEWS PAGE.
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`CONFIDENTIAL DOCUMENTS, PUBLIC DOCUMENTS, TESTIMONY, AND
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` CONTINUE.
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`TESTING OF THE PRODUCTS?
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`AND ONE THING TO NOTICE IS THAT AS DR. COLE HAS TALKED
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`ABOUT, YOU KNOW, PAGES OFTEN CONSIST OF MULTIPLE COMPONENTS.
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`HE WAS TALKING IN THE CONTEXT OF SOFTWARE COMPONENTS OR OTHER
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`COMPONENTS SUCH AS PICTURES OR SUCH, BUT A WEB PAGE CAN BE
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`A.
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`Q.
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`A.
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`Q.
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`YES, IT IS.
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`CAN WE PUT A CHECK IN THAT BOX?
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`YES.
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`ALL RIGHT. LET'S TURN TO THE SECOND ELEMENT WHICH IS THE
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`COMPOSED OF SEPARATE PIECES THAT CAN COME, IN FACT, FROM
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`I.D. GENERATOR ELEMENT.
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`DIFFERENT SOURCES. AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE SHOWING HERE.
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`PLEASE CONTINUE.
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`A.
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`Q.
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`CERTAINLY.
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`CAN YOU PLEASE -- LET ME START OFF FIRST, IS IT YOUR
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`OKAY. SO EACH OF THOSE PIECES WILL GET DOWNLOADED FROM
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`UNDERSTANDING THAT THE COURT HAS CONSTRUED PERFORMING A HASHING
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`THE INTERNET OVER TO THE PROXYSG, AND THE PROXYSG MAY WANT TO
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`FUNCTION ON THE DOWNLOADABLE AND THE SOFTWARE COMPONENTS AS
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`SEND THEM TO THE PROXYAV OR THEY'LL BE SENT OVER AS WE'LL TALK
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`PERFORMING A HASHING FUNCTION ON THE DOWNLOADABLE TOGETHER WITH
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`ABOUT AS QUICKLY AS IS POSSIBLE. AND AS SOON AS THEY CAN BE
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`THE FETCHED SOFTWARE COMPONENTS?
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`PROCESSED, ONE OF THE FIRST STEPS IS THAT THESE PIECES WILL BE
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`HASHED.
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`SO THE LITTLE MEAT GRINDER IN THE VIDEO.
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`A.
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`Q.
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`A.
`
`YES.
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`AND DID YOU APPLY THAT CONSTRUCTION IN YOUR ANALYSIS?
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`YES, I DID.
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`UNITED STATES COURT REPORTERS
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`UNITED STATES COURT REPORTERS
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`NOW, EACH OF THOSE PIECES IS HASHED, AS WE'VE TALKED
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`ABOUT, USING THE MD5 FUNCTION, AND THEN WHAT WE'LL BE TALKING
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`ABOUT IS THE I.D. IS THE COMBINATION OF THOSE HASHES TOGETHER.
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`Q.
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`SO LET'S TURN TO THE CLAIMS OF THE '780 PATENT. WHICH
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`CLAIMS DID YOU FIND WERE INFRINGED BY THE PROXYSG AND PROXYAV
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`PRODUCTS?
`A.
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`9 AND 13.
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`Q.
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`AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE FIRST ONE A COMMUNICATIONS ENGINE
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`FOR OBTAINING A DOWNLOADABLE THAT INCLUDES ONE OR MORE
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`REFERENCES TO SOFTWARE COMPONENTS REQUIRED TO BE EXECUTED BY
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`THE DOWNLOADABLE.
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`DO YOU SEE THAT?
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`YES, I DO.
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`IS IT YOUR UNDERSTANDING THE COURT HAS CONSTRUED
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`A.
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`Q.
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`DOWNLOADABLE AS APPLICATION PROGRAM WHICH IS DOWNLOADED FROM A
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`SOURCE COMPUTER AND RUN ON A DESTINATION COMPUTER?
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`A.
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`YES, THAT'S THE COURT'S CONSTRUCTION AND THE DEFINITION I
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`USED IN MY ANALYSIS.
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`Q.
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`AND IS IT YOUR OPINION THAT THE PROXYSG AND THE PROXYAV IS
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`A SYSTEM FOR GENERATING A DOWNLOADABLE I.D. TO IDENTIFY A
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`DOWNLOADABLE?
`A.
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`YES.
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`Q.
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`IS IT ALSO YOUR UNDERSTANDING THAT BLUE COAT HAS
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`STIPULATED THAT PROXYSG AND THE PROXYAV PRODUCTS CONTAIN A
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`COMMUNICATIONS ENGINE FOR OBTAINING A DOWNLOADABLE THAT
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`UNITED STATES COURT REPORTERS
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`850
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`Q.
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`AND CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHAT IS REQUIRED BY THE SECOND ELEMENT
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`OF CLAIM 9?
`A.
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`SO THE IDEA IS WE WANT SOME I.D. ASSOCIATED WITH THE PAGE
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`AND THE REASON WE WANT AN I.D. ASSOCIATED WITH THE PAGE IS THAT
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`WHAT THE PROXYAV PRODUCT IS GOING TO DO IS THAT IT IS GOING TO
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`BE EXAMINING THE WEB PAGE FOR THE POSSIBILITY OF CONTAINING A
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`VIRUS, OTHER SORTS OF MALWARE.
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`AND IF A WEB PAGE CHECKS OUT TO BE OKAY, WE DON'T WANT TO
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`HAVE TO NECESSARILY DO ALL OF THE PROCESS AGAIN IN ORDER TO
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`DETERMINE THAT IT'S SAFE.
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`SO WHAT WE WOULD LIKE IS SOME SORT OF IDENTIFIER, I.D.,
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`THAT CAN TELL US WE HAVE SEEN THIS INFORMATION BEFORE AND
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`THINGS ARE GOING TO BE OKAY.
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`SO WHAT IS REQUIRED HERE IN THIS CLAIM IS THAT WE'RE GOING
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`TO HAVE AN I.D. GENERATOR, SO IN THIS CASE WE HAVE DISCUSSED
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`THE I.D. GENERATOR WILL BE THE PROXYAV.
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`IT'S GOING TO BE COUPLED WITH THE COMMUNICATIONS ENGINE,
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`RIGHT, COUPLED WITH THE PROXYSG THAT FETCHES THE COMPONENTS,
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`THE PARTS OF THE PAGE, AS WE SAW IN MY DEMONSTRATION.
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`THEN AFTER DOWNLOADING, SAY, ONE OR MORE OF THE
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`REFERENCES, WE WILL PERFORM THE HASHING FUNCTION ON THE
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`DOWNLOADABLE AND THE FETCHED SOFTWARE COMPONENTS TO GENERATE A
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`DOWNLOADABLE I.D. AND THAT WILL WORK IN THE MANNER THAT I
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`DESCRIBED AND WE'LL DESCRIBE IN MORE DETAIL NOW REGARDING THE
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`USE OF MD5 AND THE COMBINATION THEREOF AS THEIR I.D.
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`UNITED STATES COURT REPORTERS
`08/05/2015 08:59:06 AM
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`Q.
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`LET'S LOOK AT JTX 2041.
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`A.
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`SO WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT HASHING AND FINGERPRINTS. AND
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`I'D LIKE TO MOVE JTX 2041 TO THE EXTENT IT IS NOT ALREADY,
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`AS WE CAN SEE HERE, PROXYAV WILL TAKE TYPES OF OBJECTS AND USE
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`YOUR HONOR.
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`THE HASH FUNCTION TO CREATE A FINGERPRINT, AND THE COMBINATION
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`THE COURT: JTX 2041 WILL BE ADMITTED.
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`OF THESE FINGERPRINTS FOR A SPECIFIC DOWNLOADABLE WILL
`
`853
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`CORRESPOND TO THE I.D. THAT I'VE BEEN DISCUSSING.
`Q.
`
`AND, DOCTOR, HAVE YOU RELIED ON YOUR TESTIMONY TO SUPPORT
`
`YES.
`
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`(JOINT EXHIBIT 2041 WAS RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.)
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`MR. HANNAH: I BELIEVE IT HAS BUT JUST TO BE SAFE.
`
`THE COURT: OH, IT HAS.
`
`BY MR. HANNAH:
`Q.
`
`TURN TO PAGE 160 OF THIS DOCUMENT. AND IF YOU HIGHLIGHT
`
`YOUR OPINION THAT THE PROXYAV AND THE PROXYSG DO THIS HASHING?
`A.
`Q.
`
`WOULD YOU PLEASE SHOW AHLANDER DEPOSITION TESTIMONY 57:14
`
`THE TOP PARAGRAPH. COULD YOU EXPLAIN TO THE JURY HOW THIS
`
`THROUGH 58:9.
`
`SUPPORTS YOUR OPINION THAT THE SECOND ELEMENT OF THE '780
`
`I'D LIKE TO READ THIS INTO THE RECORD.
`
`PATENT IS MET, CLAIM 9 OF THE '780?
`A.
`
`SO ONE OF THE ASPECTS OF THE COURT'S CLAIM CONSTRUCTION
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`"QUESTION: SO THE PROXYAV PRODUCT IS CONNECTED TO THE
`
`PROXYSG PRODUCT; CORRECT?
`
`WAS THAT THINGS WERE TO BE DONE TOGETHER AND PARTICULARLY
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`"ANSWER: YES.
`
`TOGETHER IN TIME.
`
`"QUESTION: AT THE GATEWAY --
`
`AND WHAT WE'RE DISCUSSING IN HERE IS THAT THE OBJECT
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`THE COURT: SLOW DOWN. I'M SORRY. WE JUST CAN'T
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`PIPELINING ALGORITHM ALLOWS THE PROXYSG TO OPEN AS MANY
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`GET THIS.
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`SIMULTANEOUS TCP CONNECTIONS AS THE ORIGIN SERVER ALLOWS AND
`
`MR. HANNAH: SORRY, YOUR HONOR.
`
`RETRIEVES OBJECTS IN PARALLEL.
`
`Q.
`
`"QUESTION: AT THE GATEWAY. IT WILL RECEIVE AN INCOMING
`
`SO WHAT THIS IS SAYING IS THAT WE HAVE SEEN THE WEB PAGE
`
`FILE, AND THAT INCOMING FILE IS IMMEDIATELY -- A HASH IS
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`CAN CONSIST OF MANY SMALL COMPONENTS.
`
`COMPUTED; CORRECT?
`
`IF YOU HAD TO WAIT AND YOU SAY, OKAY, I'M GOING TO GET THE
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`"ANSWER: I BELIEVE SO.
`
`FIRST PART AND WAIT FOR THAT TO COME BACK; AND SAY I'M GOING TO
`
`"QUESTION: AFTER THAT HASH COMPUTED, THEN THE FILE IS
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`GET THE SECOND PART AND WAIT FOR THAT TO COME BACK; AND GET THE
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`SENT TO ONE OF THESE THIRD PARTY AV ENGINES; CORRECT?
`
`THIRD PART AND WAIT FOR THAT TO COME BACK, YOU'RE GOING TO BE
`
`"ANSWER: YES.
`
`UNITED STATES COURT REPORTERS
`
`UNITED STATES COURT REPORTERS
`
`854
`
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`852
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`WAITING A LONG TIME FOR YOUR WEB PAGE. YOU MAY FIND THAT DOES
`
`HAPPEN TO YOU AT SOME POINT ALREADY WHEN YOU'RE USING THE WEB.
`
`SO THE PROXYSG IS SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED TO TRY AND PREVENT
`
`THAT, THAT IS, IT IS GOING TO TRY TO OBTAIN THE OBJECTS IN
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`PARALLEL AS FAR AS IT CAN GET THEM AND IT WILL BE GETTING THEM
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`ALL DOWN INTO THE SYSTEM AND THE GOAL BEING AT THE SAME TIME OR
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`BECAUSE IT'S IN PARALLEL, IT WILL, IN FACT, BE DOWNLOADING THEM
`
`AT THE SAME TIME.
`Q.
`
`AND THOSE OBJECTS WILL THEN BE PASSED TO THE PROXYAV
`
`PRODUCT?
`A.
`Q.
`
`YES.
`
`IF WE LOOK AT JTX 2015.
`
`AND, YOUR HONOR, JTX 2015 I WOULD LIKE TO MOVE THAT INTO
`
`EVIDENCE.
`
`THE COURT: IT WILL BE ADMITTED.
`
`(JOINT EXHIBIT 2015 WAS RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.)
`
`BY MR. HANNAH:
`Q.
`A.
`
`DOCTOR, WHAT IS JTX 2015?
`
`THIS IS A BLUE COAT DOCUMENT THAT IS DESCRIBING IN
`
`PARTICULAR THE PROXYAV APPLIANCE AND FURTHER HOW IT WORKS WITH
`
`THE PROXYSG.
`Q.
`
`AND TURN TO PAGE 11 OF THIS DOCUMENT. AND IF WE HIGHLIGHT
`
`IN THE SECOND PARAGRAPH. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
`
`CAN YOU EXPLAIN TO THE JURY HOW THIS SUPPORTS YOUR OPINION
`
`THAT THE SECOND ELEMENT OF CLAIM 9 IS MET?
`
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`"QUESTION: ONCE THAT ANALYSIS IS COMPLETE, THEN A VERDICT
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`IS REACHED?
`
`"ANSWER: YES.
`
`"AND ONCE THAT VERDICT IS REACHED, IT'S ASSOCIATED WITH A
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`HASH THAT WAS GENERATED ON THAT INCOMING FILE --
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`"ANSWER: YES.
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`"QUESTION: -- AND THEN STORED WITHIN THE PROXYAV PRODUCT;
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`CORRECT".
`
`"ANSWER: YES, TEMPORARILY."
`
`CAN YOU EXPLAIN HOW MR. AHLANDER'S TESTIMONY SUPPORTS YOUR
`
`OPINION?
`A.
`
`YEAH. SO, AGAIN, WHAT WE SEE HERE IS WHEN YOU HAVE
`
`DOWNLOADABLE CONSISTING OF MULTIPLE COMPONENTS OR CONCLUDING
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`MULTIPLE COMPONENTS, THESE COMPONENTS WILL COME IN TO THE
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`PROXYAV PRODUCT AND BE GIVEN A HASH CORRESPONDING FINGERPRINT,
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`AND THE COMBINATION OF THESE FINGERPRINTS FORMING THE I.D. THAT
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`I DISCUSSED.
`Q.
`
`LET'S TURN TO THE SOURCE CODE JTX 2076. AND IF WE CAN GO
`
`TO 330. 2330, PLEASE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU, SIR.
`
`CAN YOU PLEASE EXPLAIN HOW THE SOURCE CODE SUPPORTS YOUR
`
`OPINION THAT THE SECOND ELEMENT OF CLAIM 9 IS MET?
`A.
`
`OKAY. SO, AGAIN, IT'S JUST DISCUSSING HERE THAT IT'S
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`GOING TO BE USING AND STORING MD5 INFO. AS YOU GO THROUGHOUT
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`THE CODE YOU SEE SEVERAL REFERENCES TO THE MD5 IN THE MANNER
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`I'VE BEEN DISCUSSING.
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`UNITED STATES COURT REPORTERS
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`UNITED STATES COURT REPORTERS
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`AND IF WE GO TO PAGE 341 OF THE SOURCE CODE, IT'S 2341.
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`A.
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`THERE'S A CERTAIN I.D. FOR THE DOWNLOADABLE WHICH CONSISTS
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`IS THIS ANOTHER SOURCE CODE FILE THAT EXPLAINS THAT THE
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`OF THE COMBINATION, THE VARIOUS MD5 APPLICATIONS TO THE
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`857
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`Q.
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`A.
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`Case 3:17-cv-05659-WHA Document 432-24 Filed 04/11/19 Page 5 of 5
`855
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`ACCUSED PRODUCTS USE HASHING?
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`INDIVIDUAL COMPONENTS.
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`YES. SO WE SEE HERE THIS MD5IO YOU CAN SEE FROM THE
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`THE USE OF THIS WOULD, FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU DOWNLOADED THE
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`COMMENT IT'S GOING TO PERFORM AN MD5 CHECKSUM OVER THE PROGNAME
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`SAME WEB PAGE OVER AGAIN WITH THE SOFTWARE COMPONENTS, IF THERE
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`AND REFERS TO SOME FILE OR OBJECT THAT IT WILL BE USING MD51.
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`WAS ANY PROBLEM, YOU WOULD BE ABLE TO REJECT IT AND SAY, ALL
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`Q.
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`CAN YOU PUT UP THE CLAIMS. WHEN YOU WERE REVIEWING THE
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`RIGHT, I KNOW THAT THIS IS HERE AND I DON'T NEED TO WORRY ABOUT
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`DOCUMENTS AND THE TESTIMONY IN THIS CASE, WAS IT YOUR OPINION
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`THIS AND I CAN JUST REJECT IT NOW.
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`THAT IT WAS FUNCTIONING IN SUBSTANTIALLY THE SAME WAY WITH
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`SO THE SAME RESULT OF BEING ABLE TO SAVE YOURSELF
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`REGARD TO PERFORMING A --
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`PROCESSING TIME, PROCESSING ENERGY, TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THE
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`THE COURT: THIS LANGUAGE IS VERY DIFFICULT TO GET
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`FACT OF WHETHER YOU HAVE SEEN SOMETHING BEFORE AND KNOW WHETHER
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`ON THE RECORD.
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`IT'S SAFE OR NOT LEADS TO AT THE VERY LEAST SUBSTANTIALLY THE
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`MR. HANNAH: I'M SORRY, YOUR HONOR.
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`THE COURT: WELL, IT'S YOUR RECORD.
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`BY MR. HANNAH:
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`Q.
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`I'LL START OVER.
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`SAME RESULT WITH REGARD TO THIS CLAIM.
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`Q.
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`AND FOR THE RECORD, IS IT YOUR OPINION AND DOES THE
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`EVIDENCE DEMONSTRATE, THE EVIDENCE BEING YOUR TESTING OF THE
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`ACCUSED PRODUCTS, THE DOCUMENTS, THE TESTIMONY THAT YOU
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`WHEN YOU WERE DOING YOUR TESTING OF THE PROXYSG AND THE
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`REVIEWED, THE SOURCE CODE, THAT THE PROXYSG AND THE PROXYAV
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`PROXYAV AND YOUR REVIEW OF THE DOCUMENTS AND THE TESTIMONY IN
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`CONTAIN AN I.D. GENERATED COUPLED TO THE COMMUNICATIONS ENGINE
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`THIS CASE, IS IT YOUR OPINION THAT THE PROXYSG AND THE PROXYAV
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`THAT FETCHES AT LEAST ONE SOFTWARE COMPONENT IDENTIFIED BY THE
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`WAS FUNCTIONING THE SAME AS THIS CLAIM ELEMENT WITH REGARD TO
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`ONE OR MORE REFERENCES AND FOR PERFORMING A HASHING FUNCTION ON
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`PERFORMING A HASHING FUNCTION ON THE DOWNLOADABLE AND THE
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`THE DOWNLOADABLE AND THE FETCHED SOFTWARE COMPONENTS TO
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`FETCHED SOFTWARE COMPONENTS TO GENERATE A DOWNLOADABLE I.D.?
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`GENERATE A DOWNLOADABLE I.D.?
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`A.
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`Q.
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`A.
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`YES.
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`AND CAN YOU PLEASE EXPLAIN WHY?
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`A.
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`Q.
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`YES.
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`AND IT'S YOUR OPINION THAT THIS ELEMENT HAS BEEN MET
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`CERTAINLY. SO WE'VE TALKED ABOUT MD5 AS BEING A HASHING
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`LITERALLY?
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`UNITED STATES COURT REPORTERS
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`UNITED STATES COURT REPORTERS
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`856
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`858
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`FUNCTION THAT IS APPLIED TO THE COMPONENTS, AND I'VE DISCUSSED
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`A.
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`Q.
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`YES, IT IS.
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`AND IS IT YOUR OPINION THAT THIS ELEMENT IS MET UNDER THE
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`HOW YOU CAN USE THE COMBINATION OF THOSE AS A HASHING FUNCTION
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`ON A DOWNLOADABLE THAT INCLUDES THE ORIGINAL FILE THAT YOU SENT
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`FOR ALONG WITH ALL OF THOSE COMPONENTS.
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`SO ESSENTIALLY IT'S LIKE A BIT OF A JIGSAW PUZZLE, YOU
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`CALCULATE THE INDIVIDUAL PIECES, PUT ALL OF THE PIECES
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`TOGETHER, AND YOU GET THE I.D., AND THAT'S FUNCTIONING REALLY
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`IN THE SAME -- DOING THE SAME FUNCTION AS WHAT IS DESCRIBED
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`HERE IN ORDER TO CREATE AN I.D. FOR THE DOWNLOADABLE.
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`Q.
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`A.
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`Q.
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`AND IS IT ALSO SUBSTANTIALLY THE SAME FUNCTION?
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`SO AT THE VERY LEAST SUBSTANTIALLY THE SAME FUNCTION, YES.
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`AND IS IT YOUR OPINION THAT PROXYSG AND PROXYAV ARE DOING
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`THE FUNCTIONS IN SUBSTANTIALLY THE SAME WAY AS THIS CLAIM
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`ELEMENT?
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`A.
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`Q.
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`A.
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`ABSOLUTELY.
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`AND CAN YOU PLEASE EXPLAIN WHY?
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`CERTAINLY. I MEAN, AS YOU CAN SEE IT'S ALL BASED ON
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`FORMING AN I.D. BASED ON HASHING, AND AS I DESCRIBED, THAT'S
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`APPROXIMATELY WHAT THE MD5 DOES, IT PERFORMS THE HASHING IN
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`SUBSTANTIALLY THE SAME WAY.
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`Q.
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`IN REVIEWING THE EXHIBITS, TESTIMONY, AND THE PRODUCTS,
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`DID YOU FIND THAT THE PROXYSG AND THE PROXYAV YIELDED
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`SUBSTANTIALLY THE SAME RESULT AS THIS ELEMENT?
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`A.
`
`Q.
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`YES, I DID.
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`AND COULD YOU PLEASE EXPLAIN WHY?
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`UNITED STATES COURT REPORTERS
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`DOCTRINE OF EQUIVALENTS?
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`A.
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`Q.
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`A.
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`Q.
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`YES, THAT IS RIGHT.
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`IF WE CAN TURN TO -- CAN I PUT A CHECK IN THE BOX?
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`YES.
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`OKAY. THANKS.
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`LET'S TURN TO THE NEXT CLAIM, THE FINAL CLAIM. THIS IS
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`CLAIM 13. IS IT YOUR UNDERSTANDING THAT BLUE COAT HAS
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`STIPULATED THAT CLAIM 13 IS FOUND IN THE PROXYSG AND THE
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`PROXYAV PRODUCTS?
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`A.
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`SO IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THIS IS A DEPENDENT CLAIM,
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`IT DEPENDS ON CLAIM 9, AND MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THEY
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`STIPULATED TO THE OR WHEREIN THE DOWNLOADABLE INCLUDES HTML
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`CODE, THAT IS CORRECT?
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`Q.
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`AND IS IT YOUR OPINION, REGARDLESS, THAT THE PROXYSG AND
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`THE PROXYAV PRODUCTS ARE THE SYSTEM OF OR MEET THE LIMITATION
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`OF CLAIM 9 WHEREIN THE DOWNLOADABLE INCLUDES HTML CODE?
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`A.
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`Q.
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`YES, IT IS.
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`AND IS THAT OPINION BASED ON YOUR REVIEW OF THE EVIDENCE,
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`INCLUDING THE DOCUMENTS, THE TESTIMONY, SOURCE CODE, AND THE
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`TESTING OF THE ACCUSED PRODUCTS?
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`A.
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`Q.
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`YES, IT IS.
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`LET'S DO A BRIEF RECAP OF THE '780 PATENT AND WHERE YOU
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`FOUND THESE ELEMENTS.
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`UNITED STATES COURT REPORTERS
`08/05/2015 08:59:06 AM
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