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`EXHIBIT 15
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`(cid:56)(cid:49)(cid:53)(cid:40)(cid:39)(cid:36)(cid:38)(cid:55)(cid:40)(cid:39)(cid:3)(cid:57)(cid:40)(cid:53)(cid:54)(cid:44)(cid:50)(cid:49)(cid:3)(cid:50)(cid:41)(cid:3)
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`Case 3:17-cv-05659-WHA Document 424-26 Filed 04/11/19 Page 3 of 28
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`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL - ATTORNEYS' EYES ONLY
`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL - ATTORNEYS' EYES ONLY
`ERIC B. COLE, PH.D. - 11/14/2018
`ERIC B. COLE, PH.D. - 11/14/2018
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`·
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`∑1∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
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`∑2∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑FOR THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA
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`∑3
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`∑4∑ ∑FINJAN, INC., a Delaware
`∑ ∑ ∑Corporation,
`∑5
`∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Plaintiff,∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Case No.
`∑6∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ 3:17-cv-05659-WHA
`∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑vs.
`∑7
`∑ ∑ ∑JUNIPER NETWORKS, INC., a
`∑8∑ ∑Delaware Corporation,
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`∑9
`∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Defendant.
`10∑ ∑_________________________________
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`11
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`12
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`13∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL - ATTORNEYS' EYES ONLY
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`14
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`15∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF ERIC B. COLE, PH.D.
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`16∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Wednesday, November 14, 2018
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`23∑ ∑Reported by:
`∑ ∑ ∑Cynthia Manning, CSR No. 7645, CLR, CCRR
`24
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`25∑ ∑Job No. LA-196239
`
`Epiq Court Reporting Solutions - Woodland Hills
`Epiq Court Reporting Solutions - Woodland Hills
`1-800-826-0277
`www.deposition.com
`1-800-826-0277
`www.deposition.com
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`

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`Case 3:17-cv-05659-WHA Document 424-26 Filed 04/11/19 Page 4 of 28
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`ERIC B. COLE, PH.D. - 11/14/2018ERIC B. COLE, PH.D. - 11/14/2018
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`Page 31
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`·1· · · · Q.· So is it your opinion that there are any
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`·2· ·viable noninfringing alternatives to Claim 10 of the
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`·3· ·'494 patent?
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`·4· · · · A.· I do not believe there is any viable
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`·5· ·noninfringing alternatives.
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`·6· · · · Q.· Do you have an opinion about what would
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`·7· ·have been the next best alternative for Juniper if
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`·8· ·it could not have used the technology recited in
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`·9· ·Claim 10 of the '494 patent?
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`10· · · · A.· Can you repeat the question again?
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`11· · · · Q.· Do you have an opinion about what would
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`12· ·have been the next best alternative for Juniper if
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`13· ·it could not have used the technology recited in
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`14· ·Claim 10 of the '494 patent?
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`15· · · · A.· I believe some of the noninfringing
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`16· ·alternatives that were discussed or might have been
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`17· ·in the reports I read was essentially not to use a
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`18· ·database and to essentially have to recalculate and
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`19· ·re-perform analysis for every piece of malware that
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`20· ·came in, which would be very process-intensive and
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`21· ·also be very, very, very expensive to do.
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`22· · · · Q.· When you say, "I believe some of the
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`23· ·noninfringing alternatives that were discussed or
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`24· ·might have been in the reports I read," what report
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`25· ·did you read that talked about not using a database
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`Epiq Court Reporting Solutions - Woodland HillsEpiq Court Reporting Solutions - Woodland Hills
`
`1-800-826-02771-800-826-0277
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`www.deposition.comwww.deposition.comYVer1f
`
`

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`Case 3:17-cv-05659-WHA Document 424-26 Filed 04/11/19 Page 5 of 28
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`ERIC B. COLE, PH.D. - 11/14/2018ERIC B. COLE, PH.D. - 11/14/2018
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`Page 32
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`·1· ·and essentially having to recalculate and re-perform
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`·2· ·analysis for every piece of malware that came in?
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`·3· · · · A.· Honestly, sitting here today, I wasn't --
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`·4· ·because I consumed so much information in a short
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`·5· ·period of time over the last week, I wasn't sure if
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`·6· ·it just came up on the phone call or if that was in
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`·7· ·Dr. Rubin's report or not.· I know it was discussed
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`·8· ·last week, but I can't remember which one it came
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`·9· ·from, so I would have to go back and check on that.
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`10· · · · Q.· Okay.· So is the concept of reprocessing
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`11· ·files as opposed to storing results in a database,
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`12· ·is that an alternative that you came up with?
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`13· · · · A.· Once again, I don't remember.· I know it
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`14· ·was discussed on the call.· I don't remember if they
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`15· ·asked me and I came up with that or if they
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`16· ·suggested it and asked my opinion or if I read that
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`17· ·in Dr. Rubin's report.
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`18· · · · Q.· When you say "they," who are you talking
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`19· ·about?
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`20· · · · A.· That would be the damages expert and the
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`21· ·attorneys that were on that call.
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`22· · · · Q.· Okay.· So let's go back to before you
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`23· ·submitted your original report, okay, before you
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`24· ·submitted your report in September.
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`25· · · · A.· Okay.
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`Epiq Court Reporting Solutions - Woodland HillsEpiq Court Reporting Solutions - Woodland Hills
`
`1-800-826-02771-800-826-0277
`
`www.deposition.comwww.deposition.comYVer1f
`
`

`

`Case 3:17-cv-05659-WHA Document 424-26 Filed 04/11/19 Page 6 of 28
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`ERIC B. COLE, PH.D. - 11/14/2018ERIC B. COLE, PH.D. - 11/14/2018
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`Page 34
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`·1· ·received, as opposed to storing them in a database?
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`·2· · · · A.· Once again, I know it was discussed on the
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`·3· ·last call.· I'm not sure -- I believe it might have
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`·4· ·been, since I think that was a premise for some of
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`·5· ·the damages.· But like I said, I'd have to go back
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`·6· ·and check.
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`·7· · · · Q.· Did you affirmatively tell Mr. Arst that
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`·8· ·reprocessing files, as opposed to storing the
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`·9· ·security profiles in a database, would have been a
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`10· ·viable option for Juniper?
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`11· · · · · · MR. HANNAH:· Objection; form.
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`12· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· Once again, I want to be
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`13· ·careful, because you added the word "viable" in
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`14· ·there.
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`15· · · · · · We -- we typically discuss noninfringing
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`16· ·alternatives, and this was one of the noninfringing
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`17· ·alternatives that I felt wasn't viable because of
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`18· ·the additional processing and the additional cost
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`19· ·and the additional latency to the customers and many
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`20· ·other factors.
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`21· ·BY MS. CARSON:
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`22· · · · Q.· So it's your opinion that, had Juniper not
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`23· ·been able to use the technology recited in Claim 10,
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`24· ·it wouldn't have been able to implement the concept
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`25· ·of reprocessing files each time they are received
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`Epiq Court Reporting Solutions - Woodland HillsEpiq Court Reporting Solutions - Woodland Hills
`
`1-800-826-02771-800-826-0277
`
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`ERIC B. COLE, PH.D. - 11/14/2018ERIC B. COLE, PH.D. - 11/14/2018
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`Page 35
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`·1· ·instead of storing the security profiles in a
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`·2· ·database in a way that was commercially viable; is
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`·3· ·that fair?
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`·4· · · · · · MR. HANNAH:· Objection; form of the
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`·5· ·question.
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`·6· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· Is there a way, maybe, you
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`·7· ·can simplify it?· It seemed like a compound -- I
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`·8· ·think that was a long question.
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`·9· ·BY MS. CARSON:
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`10· · · · Q.· In your opinion, would reprocessing files,
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`11· ·instead of storing the security profiles in a
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`12· ·database, be a commercially viable alternative for
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`13· ·Juniper at the time of the hypothetical negotiation
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`14· ·in 2015?
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`15· · · · · · MR. HANNAH:· Objection; form.
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`16· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· It could have been a
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`17· ·noninfringing alternative, but I don't believe it
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`18· ·would be commercially viable because of the
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`19· ·additional processing, the latency and other
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`20· ·negative impacts, which is the reason why I believe
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`21· ·that they chose to utilize the '494 technology,
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`22· ·because of the huge benefits it provides.
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`23· ·BY MS. CARSON:
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`24· · · · Q.· Is it your opinion that reprocessing the
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`25· ·files would have been Juniper's next best
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`Epiq Court Reporting Solutions - Woodland HillsEpiq Court Reporting Solutions - Woodland Hills
`
`1-800-826-02771-800-826-0277
`
`www.deposition.comwww.deposition.comYVer1f
`
`

`

`Case 3:17-cv-05659-WHA Document 424-26 Filed 04/11/19 Page 8 of 28
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`ERIC B. COLE, PH.D. - 11/14/2018ERIC B. COLE, PH.D. - 11/14/2018
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`·1· ·alternative to infringing Claim 10 of the '494
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`·2· ·patent?
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`·3· · · · A.· I would have to do additional analysis.· It
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`·4· ·was just sort of asked -- and you ask could I think
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`·5· ·of a noninfringing alternative.· And that was one,
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`·6· ·but that wasn't a direct task that I wrote a full
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`·7· ·report on.· So I would have to go back and perform
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`·8· ·analysis of whether that was really the best, but I
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`·9· ·know that was one of the items that I came up with
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`10· ·or that was discussed.
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`11· · · · Q.· At the time that you were doing your report
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`12· ·back in September and you were talking to Mr. Arst,
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`13· ·did you consider any other noninfringing
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`14· ·alternatives besides reprocessing the files each
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`15· ·time they're received?
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`16· · · · A.· There very well --
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`17· · · · · · MR. HANNAH:· Objection; form.
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`18· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· There very well could have
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`19· ·been, but I'm not recalling any right now, sitting
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`20· ·here today.
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`21· ·BY MS. CARSON:
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`22· · · · Q.· Is it fair to say, at the time you
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`23· ·submitted your report, you did not do a complete and
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`24· ·thorough analysis of all noninfringing alternatives
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`25· ·that might have been available to Juniper?
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`Epiq Court Reporting Solutions - Woodland HillsEpiq Court Reporting Solutions - Woodland Hills
`
`1-800-826-02771-800-826-0277
`
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`ERIC B. COLE, PH.D. - 11/14/2018ERIC B. COLE, PH.D. - 11/14/2018
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`Page 37
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`·1· · · · A.· That was something that we've discussed on
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`·2· ·the phone and I gave some opinions, but it wasn't a
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`·3· ·direct task, to look at every and all to come up
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`·4· ·with a complete list.
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`·5· · · · Q.· And do you recall whether the potential
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`·6· ·alternative of reprocess- -- strike that.
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`·7· · · · · · Do you recall whether the potential
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`·8· ·alternative of reprocessing files was your idea or
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`·9· ·an idea from Finjan's counsel or Mr. Arst?
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`10· · · · · · MR. HANNAH:· Objection; form.
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`11· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· Honestly, I don't remember.
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`12· ·I know it was discussed on the phone, so I'm not
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`13· ·sure.· It could have been something I came up with,
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`14· ·or it could have been something that they bounced
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`15· ·off me.
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`16· · · · · · MS. CARSON:· Can we take a quick break?
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`17· · · · · · MR. HANNAH:· Sure.
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`18· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· Sure.
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`19· · · · · · THE VIDEOGRAPHER:· We are off the record at
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`20· ·10:01 a.m.
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`21· · · · · · (Recess taken)
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`22· · · · · · THE VIDEOGRAPHER:· We are back on the
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`23· ·record at 10:14 a.m.
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`24· ·BY MS. CARSON:
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`25· · · · Q.· Okay.· Before the break, we were talking
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`Epiq Court Reporting Solutions - Woodland HillsEpiq Court Reporting Solutions - Woodland Hills
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`

`Case 3:17-cv-05659-WHA Document 424-26 Filed 04/11/19 Page 10 of 28
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`·1· ·noninfringing alternatives presented and they asked
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`·2· ·my opinion of that topic, and based on my industry
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`·3· ·expertise, I gave them some feedback, but that
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`·4· ·wasn't the initial focus.· That was to support the
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`·5· ·damages.
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`·6· · · · · · And, once again, I believe a lot of that
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`·7· ·discussion happened after my report was submitted,
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`·8· ·after we received Dr. Rubin's report.
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`·9· ·BY MS. CARSON:
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`10· · · · Q.· So I just want to be clear on what your
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`11· ·opinions are and what you're going to offer.
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`12· · · · · · You did not include an opinion, in your
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`13· ·report in September of 2018, about what the
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`14· ·potential next best alternative would have been to
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`15· ·Juniper to infringing Claim 10 of the '494 patent;
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`16· ·correct?
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`17· · · · · · MR. HANNAH:· Objection; form of the
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`18· ·question.
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`19· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· Identifying, analyzing and
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`20· ·critiquing noninfringing alternatives was not part
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`21· ·of the September report.
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`22· · · · · · But as I mentioned, I know last week, after
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`23· ·getting Dr. Rubin's report and some additional
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`24· ·information which came out after my report, that's
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`25· ·when we had some of those detailed discussions about
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`Epiq Court Reporting Solutions - Woodland HillsEpiq Court Reporting Solutions - Woodland Hills
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`

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`·1· ·BY MS. CARSON:
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`·2· · · · Q.· Do you have an opinion, though, out of --
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`·3· ·let's just focus on the three technical ones, as
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`·4· ·opposed to the delayed release.· We'll set that
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`·5· ·aside for now, okay?
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`·6· · · · · · Do you -- actually, strike that.
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`·7· · · · · · Do you have an opinion, out of the four
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`·8· ·noninfringing alternatives that have been provided
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`·9· ·by someone on Finjan's side and Dr. Rubin, as to
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`10· ·which would have been Juniper's next best
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`11· ·alternative?
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`12· · · · · · MR. HANNAH:· Objection; form.
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`13· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· I was asked just to critique
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`14· ·and provide feedback on whether they could be done,
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`15· ·which they could, but then what the impact to
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`16· ·Juniper or the customer or others were.· I didn't
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`17· ·actually go in and prioritize the order of those.
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`18· ·BY MS. CARSON:
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`19· · · · Q.· So you don't have an opinion as to which
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`20· ·one would be the best option for Juniper; is that
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`21· ·fair?
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`22· · · · A.· I could very well do that, but that would
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`23· ·take some additional time for me to prioritize
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`24· ·what's the proper order of them.
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`25· · · · · · But I did look at all of those options, and
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`Epiq Court Reporting Solutions - Woodland HillsEpiq Court Reporting Solutions - Woodland Hills
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`1-800-826-02771-800-826-0277
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`www.deposition.comwww.deposition.comYVer1f
`
`

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`Case 3:17-cv-05659-WHA Document 424-26 Filed 04/11/19 Page 12 of 28
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`ERIC B. COLE, PH.D. - 11/14/2018ERIC B. COLE, PH.D. - 11/14/2018
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`Page 49
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`·1· ·they would all have inferior product, potentially
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`·2· ·lost customer share, less competitiveness in the
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`·3· ·market, or great increased cost to Juniper.
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`·4· · · · Q.· But you didn't assess which one would have
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`·5· ·been the best option out of the four; correct?
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`·6· · · · A.· I was not asked to go in and rank order
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`·7· ·those options.
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`·8· · · · Q.· Okay.· So let's start with the option of
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`·9· ·delaying release.
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`10· · · · · · Okay?
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`11· · · · A.· If we're going to get into these, could I
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`12· ·get a copy of Dr. Rubin's report --
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`13· · · · Q.· Sure.
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`14· · · · A.· -- so I can look at what he is saying
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`15· ·specifically?
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`16· · · · · · MS. CARSON:· Could we actually mark your
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`17· ·report as Exhibit -- I think we're on 116.
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`18· · · · · · THE REPORTER:· '72.
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`19· · · · · · MS. CARSON:· '72.· And then this will be
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`20· ·1163 --
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`21· · · · · · THE REPORTER:· '73.
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`22· · · · · · MS. CARSON:· '73.
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`23· · · · · · MR. HANNAH:· What are the numbers?
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`24· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· My report is '72, and this is
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`25· ·1173, Rubin's.
`
`
`Epiq Court Reporting Solutions - Woodland HillsEpiq Court Reporting Solutions - Woodland Hills
`
`1-800-826-02771-800-826-0277
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`www.deposition.comwww.deposition.comYVer1f
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`Case 3:17-cv-05659-WHA Document 424-26 Filed 04/11/19 Page 13 of 28
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`ERIC B. COLE, PH.D. - 11/14/2018ERIC B. COLE, PH.D. - 11/14/2018
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`Page 146
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`·1· ·actual sandboxing is done by Joe Sandbox on separate
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`·2· ·servers.
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`·3· ·BY MS. CARSON:
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`·4· · · · Q.· So given that, the AWS invoices do not
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`·5· ·reflect any charges for the processing that occurs
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`·6· ·in connection with dynamic analysis; is that fair?
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`·7· · · · · · MR. HANNAH:· Objection; form of the
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`·8· ·question.
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`·9· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· Because the sandboxing is
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`10· ·done by Joe Sandbox on separate servers, I would not
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`11· ·expect that the Amazon AWS invoices would reflect
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`12· ·the Joe Sandbox dynamic analysis.
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`13· ·BY MS. CARSON:
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`14· · · · Q.· Do you see -- I want to direct your
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`15· ·attention to the very bottom of page 13 and the
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`16· ·sentence that starts "the cost savings."
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`17· · · · · · Are you with me?
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`18· · · · A.· I am.
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`19· · · · Q.· So that sentence reads:
`
`20· · · · · · "The cost savings are the same,
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`21· · · · · · irrespective of whether Sky ATP sandboxing
`
`or
`22· · · · · · is performed on Amazon Web Services or
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`iWeb."
`23· · · · · · iWeb."
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`24· · · · · · Do you see that?
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`25· · · · A.· I see that sentence.
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`Epiq Court Reporting Solutions - Woodland HillsEpiq Court Reporting Solutions - Woodland Hills
`
`1-800-826-02771-800-826-0277
`
`www.deposition.comwww.deposition.comYVer1f
`
`

`

`Case 3:17-cv-05659-WHA Document 424-26 Filed 04/11/19 Page 14 of 28
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`ERIC B. COLE, PH.D. - 11/14/2018ERIC B. COLE, PH.D. - 11/14/2018
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`Page 147
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`·1· · · · Q.· What was the complete basis for that
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`·2· ·conclusion?
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`·3· · · · A.· (Reviewing document.)
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`·4· · · · · · This is referring to if you removed the
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`·5· ·database and you had to do manual lookups and
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`·6· ·couldn't look up in the database.· So because the
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`·7· ·database is stored in Amazon AWS, that's why it's
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`·8· ·saying, if we're replacing the component that stores
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`·9· ·the database, it would have to do additional work.
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`10· ·Because we only had access to Amazon, Juniper did
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`11· ·not provide anything for Joe Sandbox that Amazon
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`12· ·could be used as a representation of what those cost
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`13· ·savings would be.
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`14· · · · Q.· So I understand what you did.
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`15· · · · · · I'm trying to figure out what evidence you
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`16· ·relied on to conclude that the cost savings would be
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`17· ·the same, irrespective of whether the sandboxing was
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`or iWeb.
`18· ·performed on AWS or iWeb.
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`19· · · · · · Did you rely on any evidence to make that
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`20· ·conclusion?
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`21· · · · A.· It was based on the fact that AWS is known
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`22· ·to be a very cost-effective solution, so that would
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`23· ·be a representation of what the costs would be.
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`24· · · · Q.· AWS is a cloud-based server; correct?
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`25· · · · A.· That is my understanding.
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`Epiq Court Reporting Solutions - Woodland HillsEpiq Court Reporting Solutions - Woodland Hills
`
`1-800-826-02771-800-826-0277
`
`www.deposition.comwww.deposition.comYVer1f
`
`

`

`Case 3:17-cv-05659-WHA Document 424-26 Filed 04/11/19 Page 15 of 28
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`ERIC B. COLE, PH.D. - 11/14/2018ERIC B. COLE, PH.D. - 11/14/2018
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`Page 148
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`
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`·1· · · · Q.· Do you know if iWeb is a cloud-based·1· · · · Q.· Do you know if iWeb is a cloud-based
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`·2· ·server?
`·2· ·server?
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`·3· · · · A.· I would have to check to verify.
`·3· · · · A.· I would have to check to verify.
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`·4· · · · Q.· So you based your conclusion that the cost
`·4· · · · Q.· So you based your conclusion that the cost
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`·5· ·savings are the same, irrespective of whether Sky
`·5· ·savings are the same, irrespective of whether Sky
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`·6· ·ATP sandboxing is performed on AWS or iWeb, on your
`·6· ·ATP sandboxing is performed on AWS or iWeb, on your
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`·7· ·general knowledge that AWS is well known in the
`·7· ·general knowledge that AWS is well known in the
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`
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`·8· ·industry to be a cost-effective source for·8· ·industry to be a cost-effective source for
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`·9· ·cloud-based services; correct?
`·9· ·cloud-based services; correct?
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`10· · · · A.· And that those were the invoices that we
`10· · · · A.· And that those were the invoices that we
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`11· ·were provided.· So we were using what we had to be
`11· ·were provided.· So we were using what we had to be
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`12· ·able to come up with an estimate.
`12· ·able to come up with an estimate.
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`13· · · · Q.· Okay.· Is there any other evidence that you
`13· · · · Q.· Okay.· Is there any other evidence that you
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`14· ·relied on in forming your conclusion that the cost
`14· ·relied on in forming your conclusion that the cost
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`
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`15· ·savings would be the same, irrespective of whether15· ·savings would be the same, irrespective of whether
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`16· ·Sky ATP sandboxing is performed on AWS or iWeb?
`16· ·Sky ATP sandboxing is performed on AWS or iWeb?
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`17· · · · A.· It would be what we discussed and what's in
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`18· ·the paragraph in my report.
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`19· · · · Q.· And the only thing you cite in the
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`20· ·paragraph in your report are Juniper's interrogatory
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`21· ·responses and RFP responses; correct?
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`22· · · · · · MR. HANNAH:· Objection; form.
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`23· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· Correct.· And my industry
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`24· ·experience that since we only had the AWS invoices,
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`25· ·that that could be used as a representative sample
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`Epiq Court Reporting Solutions - Woodland HillsEpiq Court Reporting Solutions - Woodland Hills
`
`1-800-826-02771-800-826-0277
`
`www.deposition.comwww.deposition.comYVer1f
`
`

`

`Case 3:17-cv-05659-WHA Document 424-26 Filed 04/11/19 Page 16 of 28
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`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL - ATTORNEYS' EYES ONLYHIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL - ATTORNEYS' EYES ONLY
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`ERIC B. COLE, PH.D. - 11/14/2018ERIC B. COLE, PH.D. - 11/14/2018
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`Page 149
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`·1· ·to come up with the estimates.
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`·2· ·BY MS. CARSON:
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`·3· · · · Q.· Did you review Juniper's AWS invoices?
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`·4· · · · A.· I believe they were discussed on the phone
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`·5· ·call.
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`·6· · · · Q.· Did you personally review them?
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`·7· · · · A.· I would have to check, but I do not think
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`·8· ·that I did.
`
`Q.· Have you ever reviewed an invoice from
`·9· · · · Q.· Have you ever reviewed an invoice from
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`10· ·iWeb?
`10· ·iWeb?
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`11· · · · A.· In general or in this case?
`11· · · · A.· In general or in this case?
`
`12· · · · Q.· In general.
`12· · · · Q.· In general.
`
`13· · · · A.· I believe at McAfee we utilized some iWeb
`13· · · · A.· I believe at McAfee we utilized some iWeb
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`14· ·and AWS, so I have some experience that they are
`14· ·and AWS, so I have some experience that they are
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`
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`15· ·pretty similar in terms of the pricing structure.15· ·pretty similar in terms of the pricing structure.
`
`16· · · · Q.· How long ago was that?
`16· · · · Q.· How long ago was that?
`
`17· · · · A.· 2009-2010.· I don't always remember dates.
`17· · · · A.· 2009-2010.· I don't always remember dates.
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`18· · · · Q.· Okay.· So it's your recollection that, back
`18· · · · Q.· Okay.· So it's your recollection that, back
`
`19· ·in 2009 or 2010 at McAfee, you guys used AWS and
`19· ·in 2009 or 2010 at McAfee, you guys used AWS and
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`20· ·iWeb, and you recall looking at invoices for that?
`20· ·iWeb, and you recall looking at invoices for that?
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`21· · · · A.· I just remember that the costs were what I
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`22· ·felt to be fairly similar or comparable.
`
`or iWeb
`23· · · · Q.· But you didn't look at the AWS or iWeb
`
`24· ·invoices actually applicable to this case; correct?
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`25· · · · · · MR. HANNAH:· Objection; form.
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`Epiq Court Reporting Solutions - Woodland HillsEpiq Court Reporting Solutions - Woodland Hills
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`1-800-826-02771-800-826-0277
`
`www.deposition.comwww.deposition.comYVer1f
`
`

`

`Case 3:17-cv-05659-WHA Document 424-26 Filed 04/11/19 Page 17 of 28
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`·1· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· Right.· That was for the
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`·2· ·damages expert.· I was just performing some analysis
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`·3· ·to support that.
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`·4· ·BY MS. CARSON:
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`·5· · · · Q.· Do you know whether AWS and iWeb have
`· Q.· Do you know whether AWS and iWeb have
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`·6· ·similar pricing structures for Juniper?
`·6· ·similar pricing structures for Juniper?
`
`·7· · · · A.· Once again, that information wasn't
`·7· · · · A.· Once again, that information wasn't
`
`
`
`·8· ·provided for iWeb.· So we only had the AWS invoices.·8· ·provided for iWeb.· So we only had the AWS invoices.
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`·9· · · · Q.· So is it fair to say you don't know one way
`·9· · · · Q.· So is it fair to say you don't know one way
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`10· ·or another whether the pricing structure for AWS and
`10· ·or another whether the pricing structure for AWS and
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`11· ·iWeb is similar with respect to Juniper?
`11· ·iWeb is similar with respect to Juniper?
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`12· · · · A.· In that case, the information wasn't
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`13· ·provided, so I used my industry expertise and
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`14· ·experience as a comparable estimate.
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`
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`15· · · · Q.· Did you do any research on public sources Q.· Did you do any research on public sources
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`16· ·to try to figure out more about the pricing
`16· ·to try to figure out more about the pricing
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`17· ·structures for AWS or iWeb in connection with
`17· ·structures for AWS or iWeb in connection with
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`18· ·offering your opinion that the cost savings are the
`18· ·offering your opinion that the cost savings are the
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`19· ·same, irrespective of whether Sky ATP sandboxing is
`19· ·same, irrespective of whether Sky ATP sandboxing is
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`20· ·performed on AWS or iWeb?
`20· ·performed on AWS or iWeb?
`
`21· · · · A.· Just that Amazon is known and provides very
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`22· ·cost-effective solutions.
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`23· · · · Q.· And that's just based on your general
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`24· ·knowledge?
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`25· · · · A.· And experience.· I work with a lot of
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`Epiq Court Reporting Solutions - Woodland HillsEpiq Court Reporting Solutions - Woodland Hills
`
`1-800-826-02771-800-826-0277
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`www.deposition.comwww.deposition.comYVer1f
`
`

`

`Case 3:17-cv-05659-WHA Document 424-26 Filed 04/11/19 Page 18 of 28
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`ERIC B. COLE, PH.D. - 11/14/2018ERIC B. COLE, PH.D. - 11/14/2018
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`Page 151
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`·1· ·customers who utilize Amazon.
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`·2· · · · Q.· Did you go on Amazon's website or call
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`·3· ·Amazon to try to get information about their pricing
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`·4· ·structure?
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`·5· · · · A.· In general or for this specific case?
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`·6· · · · Q.· For this case.
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`·7· · · · A.· For this case, no, but my team has done
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`·8· ·that on many occasions for other clients.
`
`Q.· Okay.· Did you look on iWeb's website or
`·9· · · · Q.· Okay.· Did you look on iWeb's website or
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`10· ·try to give them a call to try to find out more
`10· ·try to give them a call to try to find out more
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`11· ·about their pricing structure in connection with
`11· ·about their pricing structure in connection with
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`12· ·your opinions in this case?
`12· ·your opinions in this case?
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`13· · · · A.· No, I did not.
`13· · · · A.· No, I did not.
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`14· · · · Q.· Do you know whether Juniper uses AWS for
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`15· ·any products other than Sky ATP?
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`16· · · · A.· That was outside the scope of my analysis,
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`17· ·so I don't know.
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`18· · · · Q.· So you didn't tell Finjan's damages expert,
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`19· ·Mr. Arst, that the AWS invoices were solely for
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`20· ·costs related to Sky ATP?
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`21· · · · A.· I don't remember the exact conversation on
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`22· ·those phone calls.· Like I said, we did talk about
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`23· ·the information in general and the invoices.
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`24· · · · Q.· Well, you didn't look at the invoices,
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`25· ·though; correct?
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`Epiq Court Reporting Solutions - Woodland HillsEpiq Court Reporting Solutions - Woodland Hills
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`1-800-826-02771-800-826-0277
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`www.deposition.comwww.deposition.comYVer1f
`
`

`

`Case 3:17-cv-05659-WHA Document 424-26 Filed 04/11/19 Page 19 of 28
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`Page 154
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`·1· ·and interpret it the way that I did.
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`·2· · · · Q.· Do you think that the standard for
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`·3· ·interpreting discovery responses in litigation is
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`·4· ·from the perspective of a POSITA?
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`·5· · · · A.· Well, my report is.· And based on how
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`·6· ·somebody would read -- somebody who would understand
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`·7· ·Amazon Web Services would interpret that statement
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`·8· ·in a similar way that I did.
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`·9· · · · Q.· Okay.· Do you know if AWS charges by the
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`10· ·amount of processing time?
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`11· · · · A.· I believe they have different models; some
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`12· ·are data usage, and some are processing.
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`13· · · · Q.· Do you know which model it uses for
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`14· ·Juniper?
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`15· · · · A.· Based on the response to the RFP, it looks
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`16· ·like it was reflecting data usage of the Amazon Web
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`17· ·Services.
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`18· · · · Q.· So that would not be time; correct?
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`19· · · · A.· Once again, I'd have to look at the
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`20· ·invoices of Amazon in a lot more detail to answer
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`21· ·that.
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` Q.· Do you know whether iWeb charges Juniper by
`22· · · · Q.· Do you know whether iWeb charges Juniper by
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`23· ·the amount of processing time?
`23· ·the amount of processing time?
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`24· · · · A.· My understanding that Juniper did not24· · · · A.· My understanding that Juniper did not
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`25· ·provide the iWeb invoices, so I'm not sure.
`25· ·provide the iWeb invoices, so I'm not sure.
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`Epiq Court Reporting Solutions - Woodland HillsEpiq Court Reporting Solutions - Woodland Hills
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`1-800-826-02771-800-826-0277
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`www.deposition.comwww.deposition.comYVer1f
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`

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`Case 3:17-cv-05659-WHA Document 424-26 Filed 04/11/19 Page 20 of 28
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`HIGHL