Case 1:20-cv-00393-LMB-WEF Document 1468-13 Filed 04/05/23 Page 1 of 7 PageID# 40841
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`Exhibit 23
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`Case 1:20-cv-00393-LMB-WEF Document 1468-13 Filed 04/05/23 Page 2 of 7 PageID# 40842
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`·1· · · · · · · · · UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
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`Page 1
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`·2· · · · · · · FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA
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`·3· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·---oOo---
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`·4· ·RAI STRATEGIC HOLDINGS, INC.,
`· · ·and R.J. REYNOLDS VAPOR COMPANY;
`·5
`· · ·Plaintiffs and CounterClaim Defendants,
`·6
`· · ·vs.· · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·No. 1:20cv00393-LO-TCB
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`· · ·ALTRIA CLIENT SERVICES LLC; PHILIP
`·8· ·MORRIS USA, INC.; and PHILIP MORRIS
`· · ·PRODUCTS S.A.,
`·9
`· · ·Defendants and Counterclaim Plaintiffs.
`10· ·____________________________________/
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`11
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`12
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`13· · · · · · · · · · · · ·
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`14· · · · · VIDEOTAPED REMOTE CONFERENCING DEPOSITION OF
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`15· · · · · · · · · · · · MOIRA GILCHRIST
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`16
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`17
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`18
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`19· · · · · ·Stenographically reported by NICOLE HATLER
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`20· · · · · · · · · · California CSR No. 13730
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`21· · · · · · · · · · · · ·June 18, 2021
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`22
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`23
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`24
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`25· ·JOB NO. 195611
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`Case 1:20-cv-00393-LMB-WEF Document 1468-13 Filed 04/05/23 Page 3 of 7 PageID# 40843
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`Page 102
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`·1· · · ·A.· I see that statement.· Yes.
`·2· · · ·Q.· What evidence does PMP have that IQOS sales
`·3· ·could have been stronger if Vuse products hadn't
`·4· ·been in -- on the market?
`·5· · · ·A.· So I don't know if this -- whether this
`·6· ·constitutes evidence, but I can tell you what --
`·7· ·what I have noticed.· For example, I -- prior to
`·8· ·the pandemic, I was often in the United States and
`·9· ·see Vuse products or did see Vuse products.· I did
`10· ·see Vuse products in many different retail
`11· ·locations.
`12· · · · · ·You can see it on NASCAR.· A team member of
`13· ·mine sent me photographs from the Indy 500 showing
`14· ·the product advertised widely, including on
`15· ·television, which means that, you know, consumers
`16· ·when they're thinking about switching away from
`17· ·electronic cigarettes, they are -- are faced with,
`18· ·you know, Vuse products on -- on pretty much every
`19· ·street corner, in every retail outlet, on their
`20· ·televisions, and in sports events.
`21· · · · · ·So I think that, you know, naturally
`22· ·advertising is intended to encourage people to go
`23· ·and try and -- and buy a product.· So clearly, Vuse
`24· ·being on the market may have, you know, increased
`25· ·the number of smokers who might otherwise have gone
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`Page 103
`·1· ·and -- and -- and searched out IQOS going and
`·2· ·reaching for Vuse.
`·3· · · · · ·That would be one example.· I don't know if
`·4· ·that's what -- if that answers your question or
`·5· ·helps to answer it in some way.
`·6· · · ·Q.· It does.· It does and it doesn't address
`·7· ·the question.
`·8· · · · · ·Does PMP have any evidence specifically
`·9· ·that that happened, like specific customers that
`10· ·would have bought IQOS but instead bought Vuse?
`11· · · ·A.· So I'm -- I'm not aware of -- of that type
`12· ·of evidence being available.· Perhaps the best
`13· ·person to answer that would be -- would be Martin
`14· ·King because he's on the ground in the United
`15· ·States, and I'm not sure if -- if studies have been
`16· ·done on that in -- in collaboration with Altria,
`17· ·but certainly, personally, I'm not -- not familiar
`18· ·with that.
`19· · · ·Q.· And the same is true with respect to other
`20· ·e-cigarette products, isn't it?
`21· · · ·A.· And what -- what -- how do you mean the
`22· ·same is true?
`23· · · ·Q.· Well, what I understood your testimony to
`24· ·be is that Vuse is widely available in the United
`25· ·States and Vuse is advertised in the United States,
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`Page 104
`·1· ·and so, you're -- you're saying that it's possible
`·2· ·that customers who would have searched out IQOS
`·3· ·instead chose Vuse when they were looking for an
`·4· ·alternative to combustion.
`·5· · · · · ·Do I have that right so far?
`·6· · · ·A.· I believe that's entirely possible that,
`·7· ·you know, a smoker who would have made the mental
`·8· ·decision that they wanted to go and seek out an --
`·9· ·an alternative product, when faced with advertising
`10· ·and -- and widespread availability of a -- of a
`11· ·product like Vuse, potentially would go and choose
`12· ·that product rather than searching further to see
`13· ·if there was -- there was another alternative. I
`14· ·think that's certainly plausible.
`15· · · ·Q.· And my point is -- one point I'm trying to
`16· ·make is, or ask you about is, JUUL is also widely
`17· ·available in the United States, correct?
`18· · · ·A.· I have seen JUUL in -- in many retail
`19· ·locations in the United States.
`20· · · ·Q.· And -- and JUUL has a much bigger market
`21· ·share than Vuse.
`22· · · · · ·You're aware of that, correct?
`23· · · ·A.· I -- I'm not sure exactly of the -- the
`24· ·full market share.· I'm aware that it's -- it's the
`25· ·top player in the United States.· I don't think
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`Page 105
`·1· ·they're doing quite so much advertising as -- as
`·2· ·Vuse is doing.· Certainly I have not seen it on --
`·3· ·on motor racing cars.
`·4· · · ·Q.· But just as customers potentially could
`·5· ·have chosen Vuse instead of IQOS when they were
`·6· ·looking for an alternative, customers, potentially,
`·7· ·could have chosen JUUL instead of IQOS when they're
`·8· ·looking for an alternative; isn't that correct?
`·9· · · ·A.· I think the question is -- is not
`10· ·whether -- ask me the question again.· I got lost
`11· ·in my train of thought.· Sorry.
`12· · · ·Q.· Yeah.· Sure.· I think your earlier
`13· ·testimony -- if I understood you correctly, your
`14· ·earlier testimony was positing that customers --
`15· ·potential customers who are smokers are looking for
`16· ·alternatives.· Am I right so far?
`17· · · ·A.· So the pool of customers that we, PMP SA,
`18· ·and Altria and RJR are competing for is adult
`19· ·smokers, and within that pool, we are competing for
`20· ·adult smokers who are looking for alternatives.
`21· · · ·Q.· And IQOS is competing for those customers
`22· ·and Vuse is competing for those customers, correct?
`23· · · ·A.· For -- yes.
`24· · · ·Q.· And JUUL is also competing for those same
`25· ·customers, correct?
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`Page 122
`·1· ·just don't -- I want to be sure that the witness
`·2· ·doesn't inadvertently --
`·3· · · · · ·MR. VITT:· Sure.
`·4· · · · · ·MR. REISER:· -- offer up something that --
`·5· ·that breaches the privilege.
`·6· · · · · ·MR. VITT:· Sure.
`·7· · · · · ·MR. REISER:· So --
`·8· · · · · ·MR. VITT:· It's really a predicate for --
`·9· ·that I have some other questions.· If -- if the
`10· ·witness has that understanding, that if the
`11· ·decision is upheld, the IQOS products are off the
`12· ·market in the United States.· If she has that
`13· ·understanding, then I have some more questions.· If
`14· ·she doesn't have that understanding, I'll have
`15· ·different questions.
`16· · · · · ·MR. REISER:· Right.· Just give us a few
`17· ·minutes, and we will back be back on.· Thank you.
`18· · · · · ·MR. VITT:· Okay.
`19· · · · · ·THE VIDEOGRAPHER:· We are going off the
`20· ·record.· The time is 3:34 p.m.
`21· · (A recess was held from 3:34 p.m. until 3:39 p.m.)
`22· · · · · ·THE VIDEOGRAPHER:· We are back on the
`23· ·record.· The time is 3:39 p.m.
`24· · · · · ·MR. VITT:· Okay.· Thank you.
`25· ·BY MR. VITT:
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`Page 123
`·1· · · ·Q.· So Dr. Gilchrist, you had a chance to take
`·2· ·a break and talk to Mr. Reiser, your counsel --
`·3· ·PMP's counsel, about the questions and the
`·4· ·privilege issue?
`·5· · · ·A.· Yes.
`·6· · · ·Q.· Yes?
`·7· · · · · ·So my -- my question is do you understand
`·8· ·that Judge Cheney's initial determination
`·9· ·recommends a remedy that would exclude IQOS from
`10· ·the US market?
`11· · · ·A.· So I -- I really don't feel comfortable
`12· ·in -- in answering the question, as you posed it.
`13· ·Because I -- I am a scientist.· I'm not a lawyer.
`14· ·I'm not an expert in the ITC process.· But what I
`15· ·understand is that Judge Cheney's determination and
`16· ·decision is -- is -- is purely an interim step, and
`17· ·I'm just uncomfortable in speculating about what
`18· ·may happen afterwards.· I'm -- I'm not qualified to
`19· ·do that.· So I just wonder is there another way you
`20· ·could ask me the question.· I want to be helpful --
`21· · · ·Q.· Sure.· Sure.
`22· · · ·A.· -- but I'm not a lawyer, and I don't -- I
`23· ·don't feel comfortable.
`24· · · ·Q.· Sure.· Sure.· And I'm not trying to ask a
`25· ·legal question.
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`Page 124
`·1· · · · · ·Do you have any understanding, outside
`·2· ·of -- well, do you have any understanding at all
`·3· ·that there's a risk to PMP that IQOS is going to be
`·4· ·excluded from the United States market because of
`·5· ·the ITC proceeding?
`·6· · · ·A.· Again, I -- I -- I -- I don't feel
`·7· ·comfortable answering the question in the way that
`·8· ·you're -- you're phrasing it because I'm I'm not a
`·9· ·legal expert I --
`10· · · ·Q.· Okay.
`11· · · ·A.· -- I'm talking part in the case, but --
`12· · · ·Q.· Let me ask a -- let me ask a different
`13· ·question.
`14· · · · · ·
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`21· · · ·
`22· · ·
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`24· · · ·Q.· So there's another statement up above on
`25· ·14 -- on page 14 on Exhibit 5 that talks about --
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`Page 125
`·1· ·I'm looking at the fourth sentence.· Such harms
`·2· ·also undermined and dilute the branding -- well,
`·3· ·let's not -- we're still at the top of 14 -- let's
`·4· ·not --
`·5· · · ·A.· Oh, I'm sorry.
`·6· · · ·Q.· We're in that same paragraph.
`·7· · · ·A.· Yeah.
`·8· · · ·Q.· Just drawing your attention back to that
`·9· ·first paragraph, top of 14, where it's talking
`10· ·about harms.· It says, Such harms also undermine
`11· ·and dilute the branding, goodwill, and reputation
`12· ·of Philip Morris.
`13· · · · · ·What harm has Vuse caused the branding of
`14· ·Philip Morris, if any?
`15· · · ·A.· So -- so maybe I take this back a bit to --
`16· ·to· the -- to the, kind of, beginning of the -- of
`17· ·the smoke -- smoke-free transformation.
`18· · · · · ·We made a deliberate decision that we were
`19· ·going to develop a number of different platforms
`20· ·that would turn into -- into products over time;
`21· ·that we would have the best technology; that we
`22· ·would have the best -- we would satisfy the
`23· ·consumer pain points in the best way, better than
`24· ·any of our competitors; that we would produce the
`25· ·best science; and we would also develop the best
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`Page 126
`·1· ·brand, and that umbrella brand, if you like, is --
`·2· ·is IQOS.
`·3· · · · · ·And so, that's been the -- the approach
`·4· ·that we've taken to the development, the
`·5· ·assessment, the regulatory authorization, and the
`·6· ·commercialization of -- of all of our products is
`·7· ·we -- our aim is to be the leader of this category,
`·8· ·and we are, right now, the leader of this category.
`·9· · · · · ·So we always went above and beyond what we
`10· ·thought would delight consumers, solving problems
`11· ·that they had seen with -- with other products, and
`12· ·creating a brand that they felt loyal to, and
`13· ·nesting all of our products under that brand to
`14· ·give them the -- the -- the familiarity and
`15· ·knowledge that they were going to be getting the
`16· ·best quality products that are available with the
`17· ·best technology and innovation in the smoke-free
`18· ·space.
`19· · · · · ·So that was really the -- the ethos that
`20· ·we've had since -- since the beginning, and you
`21· ·know, we have talked about this publicly very
`22· ·often.· So, you know, in -- in terms of what's
`23· ·happened with -- with other products that have --
`24· ·you know, are using, for example, our intellectual
`25· ·property, what that has is an effect of putting
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`Page 127
`·1· ·something on the market and making it -- making it
`·2· ·everyday, and something that we're deprived of
`·3· ·being able to -- to really utilize under our own
`·4· ·brand.· And to give that feeling that the product
`·5· ·is part of the IQOS ecosystem, if you'd like.
`·6· · · · · ·So I think if you were to look at it from
`·7· ·that perspective, that's, I think, what diluting
`·8· ·the brand and diluting the goodwill would mean.
`·9· · · ·Q.· So the brand that we're talking about is
`10· ·the brand IQOS; is that right?
`11· · · ·A.· The umbrella brand IQOS, under which the
`12· ·IQOS heated-tobacco fits, the VEEV fits, the IQOS
`13· ·TEEPS fits, and -- and so on.
`14· · · ·Q.· And in the United States, the only product
`15· ·using that brand is the IQOS heated tobacco
`16· ·product, at least so far, correct?
`17· · · ·A.· At this point in time on June the 18th,
`18· ·2021, in the United States, it's the IQOS heated
`19· ·tobacco product, but we have plans for our IQOS
`20· ·VEEV product to -- to go through the PMT process
`21· ·with FDA.
`22· · · ·Q.· And I do have some questions on that for
`23· ·you later, but let's stick with IQOS heated tobacco
`24· ·product for now.
`25· · · · · ·What evidence are you aware of that sales
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`Page 128
`·1· ·of Vuse products allegedly using your patents have
`·2· ·done some concrete harm to the IQOS brand in the
`·3· ·United States?
`·4· · · ·A.· So what -- what type of examples are you
`·5· ·looking for?
`·6· · · ·Q.· Well, it's -- it's your company statement
`·7· ·that Vuse products being sold has harmed the IQOS
`·8· ·brand in the United States.· I just want to know
`·9· ·what evidence there is that that's true, if any.
`10· · · ·A.· So, I mean, let me -- let me take this from
`11· ·two -- two angles.· One is the technology angle and
`12· ·that's really a future-looking thing.· But, you
`13· ·know, Vuse is on the market with technology that
`14· ·we -- we developed and we patented because we knew
`15· ·that it was unique and -- and really solved a
`16· ·number of consumer issues.
`17· · · · · ·For example, the mouth leakage, which is a
`18· ·common problem among electronic cigarettes that are
`19· ·available in the United States, we worked hard to
`20· ·create a technology that could -- could prevent
`21· ·that from happening.· And you can imagine from a
`22· ·consumer perspective, that's a value-adding
`23· ·proposition.
`24· · · · · ·So now that's on the market with the Vuse
`25· ·technology using our patent, so it's become,
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`Page 129
`·1· ·somehow, a normal thing.· It's -- when -- when we
`·2· ·bring it on the market once we receive PMT
`·3· ·authorization, if FDA decides to -- to do that,
`·4· ·then this no longer will be a unique feature that's
`·5· ·unique to an IQOS smoke-free product under that
`·6· ·brand umbrella.· So that's -- that's one -- one
`·7· ·part.
`·8· · · · · ·I think the -- the other thing in terms of
`·9· ·the -- the branding, I think, IQOS stands for
`10· ·quality, it stands for science, and it stands for
`11· ·following the rules and the regulatory process.
`12· ·And what we see with product like Vuse is that
`13· ·it's -- it's on the market without standing for
`14· ·science, without having gone through the -- the
`15· ·rules, and I think this is somehow -- has the
`16· ·potential to be confusing for -- for consumers.
`17· · · · · ·So I think there are multiple different
`18· ·things that -- that can be determined as being a
`19· ·harm from -- from Vuse being on the market, from --
`20· ·from both the immediate and the longer term --
`21· ·historical and immediate and a future perspective
`22· ·for the umbrella IQOS brand.
`23· · · ·Q.· So Vuse being on the market -- I'm not
`24· ·following how Vuse being on the market as Vuse
`25· ·could be confusing to consumers or do any harm to
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`Page 130
`·1· ·IQOS.· Put aside the technology, we'll discuss that
`·2· ·in a minute.· But, you know, you said a minute ago
`·3· ·that Vuse is on the market and IQOS has played by
`·4· ·the rules and Vuse isn't playing by the rules.
`·5· · · · · ·How can that -- how can that harm IQOS?
`·6· ·Isn't that something that IQOS can use to its
`·7· ·advantage· by marketing to consumers that IQOS is
`·8· ·playing by the rules and Vuse isn't?
`·9· · · · · ·MR. REISER:· Objection.· Vague; compound;
`10· ·argumentative.
`11· · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Do you want to separate that
`12· ·out into pieces?
`13· ·BY MR. VITT:
`14· · · ·Q.· Yeah.· How does Vuse's behavior and
`15· ·Reynolds's behavior regarding Vuse harm the IQOS
`16· ·brand, setting aside the technology issue which I
`17· ·want to discuss separately?
`18· · · ·A.· Okay.· There's tremendous confusion among
`19· ·adult smokers in the United States today, and
`20· ·that's been caused by a number of different things.
`21· ·There's a -- there's a battle going on in the
`22· ·public health community about the approach of
`23· ·tobacco harm-reduction, for example.
`24· · · · · ·You have companies and -- and -- and -- and
`25· ·products being -- being pointed to as being part of
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`Page 131
`·1· ·the problem.· So the problem of youth use of
`·2· ·electronic cigarettes is widely known and is
`·3· ·causing confusion among the general public about
`·4· ·the viability of tobacco harm-reduction as a
`·5· ·strategy to -- to help reduce smoking-related
`·6· ·disease and death.
`·7· · · · · ·I believe that that confusion has been
`·8· ·propagated through to IQOS because.· For example,
`·9· ·we have no worrisome levels of youth use whatsoever
`10· ·because media spokesperson -- I get question about
`11· ·youth use of IQOS all the time because other
`12· ·products on the market have been advertising widely
`13· ·on the television, have been problematic in -- in
`14· ·terms of youth use, and that has bled over into
`15· ·doubts about the IQOS product and the IQOS brand
`16· ·overall, which are completely unjustified.
`17· · · ·Q.· And you're blaming Vuse for that?
`18· · · ·A.· Vuse is one of the products which has been
`19· ·pointed to as being part of the problem of -- of,
`20· ·for example, youth use of electronic cigarettes.
`21· · · ·Q.· And what other products have been pointed
`22· ·to as part of the problem?
`23· · · ·A.· There are other products, JUUL has been
`24· ·mentioned, there have been things like the -- I've
`25· ·forgotten what it's called, the disposal puff bars
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`Page 132
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`Page 133
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`·1· ·and so on.
`·2· · · ·Q.· And this confusion you're talking about --
`·3· ·this confusion doesn't relate at all to the IQOS
`·4· ·name itself.· Nobody's confused that IQOS isn't
`·5· ·your brand, for example.· It's more confusion in
`·6· ·the category of harm-reduction.
`·7· · · · · ·Am I understanding you correctly?
`·8· · · ·A.· So the -- the confusion and the, I would
`·9· ·say, opposition to harm-reduction and
`10· ·harm-reduction products because of some of the
`11· ·challenges associated with electronic cigarettes,
`12· ·whether it be youth use, e-valy, whatever, that has
`13· ·bled over into the IQOS brand and the -- and the
`14· ·discussions about IQOS.· And our -- our media
`15· ·spokesperson get questions about that all the time
`16· ·even though the IQOS products has nothing to do
`17· ·with any of these issues.
`18· · · ·Q.· Let's talk about the technology aspect of
`19· ·this.· I think you said that Vuse is using
`20· ·technology that PMP patented, and of course, that's
`21· ·your company's allegation in the lawsuit.
`22· · · · · ·Am I right so far?
`23· · · ·A.· That's correct.
`24· · · ·Q.· And the harm that you see coming from that
`25· ·is that it will -- that will make that technology
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`·1· ·seem like a normal thing so that when PMP
`·2· ·introduces its VEEV product, it won't get credit
`·3· ·for this -- this technology advance that it's
`·4· ·patented.
`·5· · · · · ·Do I have that about right?
`·6· · · ·A.· Well, that's -- that's part of it.· So --
`·7· ·so the -- you -- - you lose the unique selling
`·8· ·proposition because somebody has already had it on
`·9· ·the market, so when -- when we bring it to the
`10· ·market it's no longer a unique feature.
`11· · · · · ·But it also prevents us from being able to
`12· ·further build up the -- the brand -- you know, the
`13· ·brand itself and the goodwill associated with that
`14· ·brand because the IQOS brand stands for innovation
`15· ·and it stands for technology and it stands for
`16· ·science.· And we're -- we're deprived, basically,
`17· ·of the ability of -- of using this patented
`18· ·technology as part of the overall what IQOS stands
`19· ·for, because it is already on the market and
`20· ·through the Reynolds Vuse product.
`21· · · ·Q.· Do you know whether the IQOS VEEV
`22· ·product -- well, let me back up.
`23· · · · · ·IQOS's -- I'm sorry.
`24· · · · · ·PMP's IQOS VEEV product is an e-cigarette
`25· ·product, right?
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`Page 178
`·1· ·where it tells us the date it was published or
`·2· ·posted?
`·3· · · ·A.· I do.
`·4· · · ·Q.· When is that?
`·5· · · ·A.· It was Wednesday -- Wednesday, June
`·6· ·the 19th, 2019.
`·7· · · ·Q.· So do you know when IQOS was -- when
`·8· ·commercialization of IQOS began in the United
`·9· ·States?
`10· · · ·A.· It began, I believe, in late
`11· ·September 2019.
`12· · · ·Q.· So in June 2019, were IQOS devices
`13· ·available to consumers in the United States?
`14· · · ·A.· No, they were not.
`15· · · · · ·MR. REISER:· You can take that down, Bill.
`16· ·Thank you.
`17· ·BY MR. REISER:
`18· · · ·Q.·
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`·1·
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`Page 179
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`10· · · ·Q.· Okay.· You were asked a couple questions by
`11· ·Mr. Vitt about harm caused to PMP smoke-free
`12· ·products, including VEEV.
`13· · · · · ·Do you remember, generally?
`14· · · ·A.· Yes.
`15· · · ·Q.· Do you have a sense of how, if at all,
`16· ·VEEV's launch in the US could be harmed by damage
`17· ·to the IQOS branding?
`18· · · ·A.· I'm sorry.· Could you repeat the question?
`19· · · ·Q.· Sure.
`20· · · · · ·Do you have any sense of whether VEEV's
`21· ·launch in the US might be harmed by damage to the
`22· ·IQOS brand?
`23· · · ·A.· Oh, okay.· I misheard you.
`24· · · · · ·So -- so we worked -- I think as I
`25· ·mentioned in my earlier testimony, we worked really
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`·1· ·hard to ensure that we created this umbrella brand
`·2· ·for all of the smoke-free products that's -- that's
`·3· ·IQOS.
`·4· · · · · ·IQOS stands for the most leading
`·5· ·technology, the innovation, science, following the
`·6· ·rules, and -- and so on.· So, you know, any damage
`·7· ·that's done to the IQOS brand today, damages the
`·8· ·ability to maintain that brand and brand voice in
`·9· ·-- in the future.
`10· · · · · ·So it's something that we work really hard
`11· ·to make sure that we can maintain over time and
`12· ·make sure that we are bringing the best technology
`13· ·to adults who smoke in order that we continue to be
`14· ·the leader, not just from a -- from a revenue
`15· ·perspective, but also from a reputational and from
`16· ·a consumer perspective, as well.
`17· · · ·Q.· Thank you.
`18· · · · · ·MR. REISER:· Bill, could we pull up
`19· ·Exhibit 5?· I think I have this number.
`20· ·BY MR. REISER:
`21· · · ·Q.· So let me just go back before we get to
`22· ·Exhibit 5.
`23· · · · · ·Do you have a sense -- in terms of this
`24· ·harm to VEEV, do you have a sense about it from a
`25· ·distribution perspective?· Does that make sense to
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`·1· ·you?
`·2· · · ·A.· Maybe ask that again.· I'm sorry.
`·3· · · ·Q.· Yeah.· Maybe -- maybe I'll come back to
`·4· ·that.
`·5· · · · · ·Let's take a look, please, at Exhibit 5,
`·6· ·page 41.· And thank you.
`·7· · · · · ·Do you recall, toward the end of your
`·8· ·testimony from Mr. Vitt, you were asking questions
`·9· ·about possible harms to VEEV relating to
`10· ·infringement.· You were directed to this part of
`11· ·the document.· You expressed a desire to take a
`12· ·look at the document a little bit more generally,
`13· ·and I think it's fair to say you were dissuaded
`14· ·from doing so.
`15· · · · · ·I wanted you to have the opportunity to
`16· ·look at the document now and just add any
`17· ·additional thoughts to the answer you gave to
`18· ·Mr. Vitt's question.
`19· · · ·A.· So could I go up in the document just to
`20· ·refresh my memory of just what comes before?· Oh,
`21· ·yes.· So here's another good example.
`22· · · · · ·So you know, VEEV -- the -- the way VEEV is
`23· ·being positioned as being the most advanced
`24· ·electronic cigarette with -- that contains multiple
`25· ·different new technologies that help to -- to
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