Case 6:21-cv-00755-ADA Document 53-1 Filed 04/15/22 Page 1 of 13
`Case 6:21-cv-00755-ADA Document 53-1 Filed 04/15/22 Page 1 of 13
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`EXHIBIT 6
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`Case 6:21-cv-00755-ADA Document 53-1 Filed 04/15/22 Page 1 of 13
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`EXHIBIT 6
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`Case 6:21-cv-00755-ADA Document 53-1 Filed 04/15/22 Page 2 of 13
`
` IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
` WESTERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS
` WACO DIVISION
`
` GENTEX CORPORATION and )
` INDIGO TECHNOLOGIES, LLC, )
` )Case No.
` Plaintiffs, )6:21-cv-00755-ADA
` )
` THALES VISIONIX, INC., )
` )
` Involuntary )
` Plaintiff, )
` )
` v. )
` )
` FACEBOOK, INC. and FACEBOOK )
` TECHNOLOGIES, LLC, )
` )
` Defendants. )
` ______________________________)
`
` REMOTE PROCEEDINGS OF THE
` VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF JOSEPH LAVIOLA, PH.D.,
` WEDNESDAY, MARCH 30, 2022
`
` REPORTED BY NANCY J. MARTIN
` CSR. NO. 9504, RMR, RPR
`
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`Case 6:21-cv-00755-ADA Document 53-1 Filed 04/15/22 Page 3 of 13
`
` IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
` WESTERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS
` WACO DIVISION
`
` GENTEX CORPORATION and )
` INDIGO TECHNOLOGIES, LLC, )
` )Case No.
` Plaintiffs, )6:21-cv-00755-ADA
` )
` THALES VISIONIX, INC., )
` )
` Involuntary )
` Plaintiff, )
` )
` v. )
` )
` FACEBOOK, INC. and FACEBOOK )
` TECHNOLOGIES, LLC, )
` )
` Defendants. )
` ______________________________)
`
` - - -
` WEDNESDAY, APRIL 30, 2022
` - - -
`
` Videotaped Deposition of JOSEPH LAVIOLA, PH.D.,
` beginning at 9:00 a.m., before Nancy J. Martin, a
` Registered Merit Reporter, Certified Shorthand
` Reporter. All parties appeared remotely.
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`Case 6:21-cv-00755-ADA Document 53-1 Filed 04/15/22 Page 4 of 13
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` A P P E A R A N C E S :
`
` J O S H U A G L U C O F T , E S Q .
` B A I L E Y W A T K I N S , A T T O R N E Y A T L A W
` K I R K L A N D & E L L I S L L P
` 5 5 5 C a l i f o r n i a S t r e e t
` S u i t e 2 7 0 0
` S a n F r a n c i s c o , C a l i f o r n i a 9 4 1 0 4 - 1 5 0 3
` ( 3 1 0 ) 5 5 2 - 4 2 8 4
` j o s h . g l u c o f t @ k i r k l a n d . c o m
` C o u n s e l f o r D e f e n d a n t s
`
` A D A M H A R B E R , E S Q .
` S H A Y O N G H O S H , E S Q .
` W I L L I A M S & C O N N O L L Y L L P
` 7 2 5 1 2 t h S t r e e t N W
` W a s h i n g t o n , D . C . 2 0 0 0 5
` a h a r b e r @ w c . c o m
` ( 2 0 2 ) 4 3 4 - 5 8 2 0
` C o u n s e l f o r P l a i n t i f f s
`
` A L S O P R E S E N T :
` O R S O N B R A I T H W A I T E , L E G A L V I D E O G R A P H E R
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`Case 6:21-cv-00755-ADA Document 53-1 Filed 04/15/22 Page 5 of 13
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` I N D E X
`
` TESTIMONY OF JOSEPH LAVIOLA PAGE
`
` BY MR. GLUCOFT 6
`
` E X H I B I T S
` NUMBER DESCRIPTION MARKED
` Exhibit 1 DECLARATION OF JOSEPH J. 11
` LAVIOLA JR./REGARDING
` CLAIM CONSTRUCTION, 110
` pages
`
` Exhibit 2 US 6,922,632 B2, 40 pages 23
`
` Exhibit 3 US 6,757,068 B2, 16 pages 23
`
` Exhibit 4 AgileSLAM: A Localization 42
` Approach for Agile Head
` Movements in/Augmented
` Reality, 6 pages
` Exhibit 5 A Comparison of Unscented 117
` and Extended
` Kalman/Filtering for
` Estimating Quaternion
` Motion, 6 pages
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`Case 6:21-cv-00755-ADA Document 53-1 Filed 04/15/22 Page 6 of 13
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` could say that there could be any point on the game
`
` controller that could be considered a localized
`
` feature.
`
` Q. What's the difference between a feature and a
`
` localized feature?
`
` A. A feature is a -- so when we talk about the
`
` word "feature" in this context, we're talking about
`
` something, an entity, piece of something that can be
`
` used to discriminate itself from other things. Okay?
`
` A localized feature, in the context of this
`
` patent, is one that has to do with the hand or
`
` something being held on the hand or something being
`
` held or something being placed on the hand. The held
`
` put on the hand or the hand itself, or any other limb
`
` for that matter. It could be a foot. As it turns --
`
` as opposed to, you know, an overall feature, you know,
`
` something that describes everything.
`
` This is just describing a small piece of the
`
` object that's being tracked. That's why it's
`
` localized.
`
` Q. So in the context of these patents, can you
`
` be a localized feature if you're not associated with a
`
` limb?
`
` A. Can you be a localized feature and not
`
` associated with a limb. I believe in the context of
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`Case 6:21-cv-00755-ADA Document 53-1 Filed 04/15/22 Page 7 of 13
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` these patents and the particular claim term, if it's
`
` not associated with a limb, meaning that it's not
`
` something on the hand, held in the hand, or attached
`
` to the hand or other limb, then it would not be a
`
` localized feature.
`
` Q. So in this patent, all localized features are
`
` associated with a limb?
`
` MR. HARBER: Objection. Vague.
`
` THE WITNESS: They're -- I believe in the
`
` context of these patents that a localized feature is
`
` associated with the limb -- a limb of the user.
`
` BY MR. GLUCOFT:
`
` Q. So a feature -- a localized feature is
`
` necessarily associated with a limb in these patents?
`
` MR. HARBER: Objection. Vague.
`
` THE WITNESS: I mean I believe that to be
`
` true.
`
` BY MR. GLUCOFT:
`
` Q. So when the claim -- excuse me. Strike that.
`
` When the claims recite a localized feature,
`
` those localized features are inherently associated
`
` with a limb?
`
` MR. HARBER: Objection. Misstates the
`
` testimony.
`
` THE WITNESS: I mean the term says, you know,
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`Case 6:21-cv-00755-ADA Document 53-1 Filed 04/15/22 Page 8 of 13
`
` orientation of the display device, you're going to be
`
` redisplaying the first object at a second position as
`
` well.
`
` Q. Is Claim 26's second position a different
`
` position than the second position of Claim 16?
`
` A. I mean hypothetically, it could be the same,
`
` but it doesn't have to be.
`
` Q. So the second position of Claim 26 and
`
` Claim 16 could be the same second position or they
`
` could be different positions?
`
` A. Are you talking about Claim 15 or Claim 16?
`
` Q. Let's deal with them in turn. Is the second
`
` position recited in Claim 26 the same or different
`
` than the second position recited in Claim 16?
`
` A. I mean it's going to be based on -- on both
`
` movements. So you're going to get a second position
`
` that it's possible that it could be the same position
`
` or it doesn't have to be.
`
` Q. Okay. So how would you know if it's the same
`
` second position or not?
`
` A. In the camera that's being used -- the
`
` virtual camera that's being used in the head mounted
`
` display is updated based on its orientation, it's
`
` going to update the scene and put the first object in
`
` a position based on how you've done the orientation,
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`Case 6:21-cv-00755-ADA Document 53-1 Filed 04/15/22 Page 9 of 13
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` then if you move the object physically, you could move
`
` it in such a way that -- that it would be the same
`
` position. The same second position.
`
` I mean these are just -- these two claims are
`
` talking about standard head tracking.
`
` Q. And so it could be different positions?
`
` A. It could be. I mean here's my object. Let's
`
` say I have it here. I rotate my head. The object
`
` moves to a second position. Okay? (Indicating)
`
` I have it here. I move it over here. I
`
` changed position. Moved it to a second position. I
`
` go like this, it moves to a second position. That
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` second position could be -- you know, it's the sum of
`
` those two positions where they could be -- you know,
`
` it could be the same position. It doesn't have to be.
`
` (Indicating)
`
` Q. Okay. Is there a way to know in advance
`
` whether they will or will not be the same second
`
` position?
`
` A. I mean there probably is a way. I'm sure if
`
` you, you know, looked at -- at what the person was
`
` going to be doing in terms of moving their head and
`
` moving their hand, you could determine if it was the
`
` same position or a different position. That's just
`
` something that's, you know, not something that's done,
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`Case 6:21-cv-00755-ADA Document 53-1 Filed 04/15/22 Page 10 of 13
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` utility.
`
` Q. What about in those other approaches you were
`
` talking about, like SLAM and --
`
` A. SLAM has elements of -- like I said elements
`
` of Kalman filtering in it. So it probably would
`
` require -- there's probably -- I don't know off the
`
` top of my head, a measure in the SLAM algorithm that
`
` you could use to determine what the expected or
`
` highest expected utility is.
`
` As far as some of the other things, you know,
`
` like I said, the programmer is going to bring to
`
` bear -- a person of ordinary skill in the art is going
`
` to bring to bear a set of knowledge about tracking
`
` systems, prediction and estimation and would come
`
` to -- you know, utilizing that knowledge would --
`
` could develop algorithms that would, you know, provide
`
` you what could be considered the highest expected
`
` utility.
`
` Q. Why do you say, it "could be considered"? Is
`
` there no objective highest expected utility?
`
` A. I mean it's in the -- in this case, it's in
`
` the eyes of the programmer; right? So if the
`
` programmer is using something that is going to compute
`
` an optimal instructed utility, then that would be the
`
` highest expected utility.
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`Case 6:21-cv-00755-ADA Document 53-1 Filed 04/15/22 Page 11 of 13
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` But if they're not, you know, they're using
`
` the more heuristic stuff, then it's going to be
`
` suboptimal. But it would still give you, you know,
`
` the highest expected utility in the range of potential
`
` utilities. It might not be the highest that is
`
` possible, like ever, but I give you numbers from 1 to
`
` 10, and I say 10 is the highest number. And I give
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` you numbers from 1 to 12, and I say 10 is the highest
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` number.
`
` 10 is still the highest number based on the
`
` information I have, even though potentially you could
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` get to 11 or 12, but the technique you have doesn't
`
` allow you to do that. So in that case, still 10 is
`
` the highest expected utility.
`
` Q. So the highest expected utility is specific
`
` to the programmer?
`
` A. Yeah. I mean I believe it's specific to --
`
` to what the programmer is doing as part of the -- the
`
` tracking system, you know.
`
` Q. Okay. Do you agree that a pose estimate
`
` calculated by a Kalman filter satisfies the claim
`
` element of an expected sensor measurement?
`
` A. If you're using a Kalman filter, that would
`
` provide you with the expected sensor measurement, yes.
`
` Q. Do you agree that a known position and
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`Case 6:21-cv-00755-ADA Document 53-1 Filed 04/15/22 Page 12 of 13
`
` term that you were referring to.
`
` Q. So providing any information at all would
`
` characterize the state estimate?
`
` A. I mean if you provide some information, it's
`
` going to give you some understanding of the state
`
` estimate. You could provide different types of
`
` information, and you might do well to be better
`
` categorization -- you know, characterizing or not so
`
` good at characterizing, but you're still attempting to
`
` characterize the state estimate.
`
` Q. Can you characterize an input device?
`
` A. I believe that -- that you can characterize
`
` an input device.
`
` Q. Is one way to characterize an input device by
`
` the input type and frequency of the data they
`
` generate?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. What information is required to characterize
`
` an estimate of a location?
`
` A. This is an example of a place where a
`
` characterizes can also be thought of as using the --
`
` the term "is." So an estimate is an estimate of a
`
` location of the object.
`
` Q. Okay. Are you saying that in some instances
`
` to characterize information such as the estimate of a
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`Case 6:21-cv-00755-ADA Document 53-1 Filed 04/15/22 Page 13 of 13
`
` location, that means actually provide that
`
` information, but in other instances characterizes
`
` means to describe the information?
`
` MR. HARBER: Objection. Misstates the
`
` testimony.
`
` THE WITNESS: The way I see it is that the
`
` word, you know, "characterizes" can mean different
`
` things depending on context. So in some cases it
`
` means it's to describe. Sometimes it means, you know,
`
` that it represents using the word "is," and one of the
`
` things that -- that the test, at least that I use, is
`
` I replace the word "characterize" with those words,
`
` "described" or "is," and then determine which one is
`
` more appropriate.
`
` BY MR. GLUCOFT:
`
` Q. Okay. So in the '632 patent, in which claims
`
` does characterize mean describe and in which claims
`
` does characterize mean is?
`
` A. Okay. Well, in Claim 5 we have "the state
`
` estimate characterizes an estimate of" the "location
`
` of the object." So we say that the state estimate is
`
` an estimate of the location of an object. Okay?
`
` In Claim 6, "the state estimate characterizes
`
` configuration informing for one or more sensing
`
` elements fixed to the object."
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