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`HearingHearing
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`·1· · · · IPR2020-01302
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`·2· · · · U.S. PATENT NO. 7,539,474
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`·3
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`·4
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`Intel Corporation vs.Intel Corporation vs.
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`ParkerVision, Inc.ParkerVision, Inc.
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`·5· · · · · · ·UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
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`·6· · · · · · · · · · ____________________________
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`·7· · · · · · · BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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`·8· · · · · · · · · · ____________________________
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`·9· · · · · · · · · · · · · INTEL CORPORATION
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`10· · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·PETITIONER
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`11· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·V.
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`12· · · · · · · · · · · · ·PARKERVISION, INC.
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`13· · · · · · · · · · · · · · PATENT OWNER
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`14· · · · · · · · · · · U.S. PATENT NO. 7,539,474
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`15· · · · · · · · · · · ISSUE DATE:· MAY 26, 2009
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`16· · · · ·TITLE:· DC OFFSET, RE-RADIATION, AND I/Q SOLUTIONS
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`17· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·USING
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`18· · · · · · ·UNIVERSAL FREQUENCY TRANSLATION TECHNOLOGY
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`19· · · · ·___________________________________________________
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`20· · · · · · · · · · · · · _______________
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`21· · · · · · · ·INTER PARTES REVIEW NO. IPR2020-01302
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`22
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`23· · · · APPEARANCES:· ·(SEE NEXT PAGE)
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`24
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`25
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`26· · · · REPORTED BY:· · · · TANYA ROGERS, CSR 10178, RPR
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`27· · · · · · · · · · · · · · OFFICIAL REPORTER, PRO TEMPORE
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`28· · · · JOB NO. 10091134
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · · · · APPEARANCES
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`Intel Corporation vs.Intel Corporation vs.
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`ParkerVision, Inc.ParkerVision, Inc.
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`·2
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`·3
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`·4· · · · FOR INTEL CORPORATION
`· · · · · PETITIONER:
`·5
`· · · · · · · · · · · · ·WILMERHALE
`·6· · · · · · · · · · · ·BY:· MICHAEL J. SUMMERSGILL, ESQ.
`· · · · · · · · · · · · ·BY:· TODD ZUBLER, ESQ.
`·7· · · · · · · · · · · ·BY:· HAIXIA LIN, ESQ.
`· · · · · · · · · · · · ·60 STATE STREET
`·8· · · · · · · · · · · ·BOSTON, MA 02109 USA
`· · · · · · · · · · · · ·+1 617 526 6261 (T)
`·9· · · · · · · · · · · ·+1 617 526 5000 (F)
`· · · · · · · · · · · · ·MICHAEL.SUMMERSGILL@WILMERHALE.COM
`10
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`11
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`12· · · · FOR PARKERVISION, INC.
`· · · · · PATENT OWNER:
`13
`· · · · · · · · · · · · ·DAIGNAULT IYER, LLP
`14· · · · · · · · · · · ·BY:· JASON CHARKOW, ESQ.
`· · · · · · · · · · · · ·BY:· STEPHANIE MANDIR, ESQ.
`15· · · · · · · · · · · ·8618 WESTWOOD CENTER DR
`· · · · · · · · · · · · ·SUITE 150
`16· · · · · · · · · · · ·VIENNA, VA 22182-2285
`· · · · · · · · · · · · ·(202) 330-1666
`17· · · · · · · · · · · ·JCHARKOW@DAIGNAULTIYER.COM
`· · · · · · · · · · · · ·TODD.ZUBLER@WILMERHALE.COM
`18· · · · · · · · · · · ·HAIXIA.LIN@WILMERHALE.COM
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`19
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`20· · · · ALSO PRESENT:
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`21· · · · · · · · · · · ·HON. BART GERSTENBLITH
`· · · · · · · · · · · · ·HON. MICHAEL R. ZECHER
`22· · · · · · · · · · · ·HON. IFTIKHAR AHMED
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`23
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`24
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`25
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`26
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`27
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`28
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`Intel Corporation vs.Intel Corporation vs.
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`ParkerVision, Inc.ParkerVision, Inc.
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`·1· · · · VENTURA, CALIFORNIA; WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 10, 2021
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`·2· · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·6:00 A.M.
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`·3· · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·---OOO---
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`·4
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`·5· · · · · · · · MR. SUMMERSGILL:· MICHAEL SUMMERSGILL ON
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`·6· · · · BEHALF OF INTEL, PETITIONER.· I'VE GOT TODD ZUBLER
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`·7· · · · AND HAIXIA LIN ALSO ON BEHALF OF INTEL.
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`·8· · · · · · · · JUDGE GERSTENBLITH:· GOOD MORNING,
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`·9· · · · EVERYONE.· THIS IS JUDGE GERSTENBLITH.· WITH ME ON
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`10· · · · THE LINE ARE JUDGES ZECHER AND AHMED.· THIS IS A
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`11· · · · CONFERENCE CALL FOR IPR2020-01302.
`
`12· · · · · · · · · · · WHO DO WE HAVE -- AND THAT'S INTEL
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`13· · · · VERSE PARKERVISION -- WHO DO WE HAVE ON THE LINE
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`14· · · · FOR PETITIONER, PLEASE?
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`15· · · · · · · · MR. SUMMERSGILL:· GOOD MORNING, YOUR
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`16· · · · HONORS.· THIS IS MICHAEL SUMMERSGILL ON BEHALF OF
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`17· · · · PETITIONER, INTEL, AND JOINING ME TODAY ARE TODD
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`18· · · · ZUBLER AND HAIXIA LIN.
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`19· · · · · · · · JUDGE GERSTENBLITH:· GOOD MORNING.
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`20· · · · · · · · · · · AND WHO DO WE HAVE ON THE LINE FOR
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`21· · · · PATENT OWNER, PLEASE?
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`22· · · · · · · · MR. CHARKOW:· GOOD MORNING, YOUR HONOR.
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`23· · · · THIS IS JASON CHARKOW OF DAIGNAULT IYER FIRM ON
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`24· · · · BEHALF OF PARKERVISION.· AND I HAVE STEPHANIE
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`25· · · · MANDIR WITH ME AS WELL FROM THE SAME FIRM.
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`26· · · · · · · · · · · WE ALSO E-MAILED TO THE COURT -- TO
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`27· · · · THE BOARD LAST WEEK, WE ALSO HAVE PROVIDED A COURT
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`28· · · · REPORTER WHO IS ALSO CURRENTLY ON THE LINE AND, YOU
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`Intel Corporation vs.Intel Corporation vs.
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`ParkerVision, Inc.ParkerVision, Inc.
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`·1· · · · KNOW, TAKING NOTES.· I DON'T KNOW IF THE BOARD HAS
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`·2· · · · ANY ISSUES WITH THAT.
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`·3· · · · · · · · JUDGE GERSTENBLITH:· GREAT.· THANK YOU VERY
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`·4· · · · MUCH, MR. CHARKOW, FOR ARRANGING THAT.· YOU
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`·5· · · · PROBABLY ALREADY KNOW THIS BUT ONCE YOU GET THE
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`·6· · · · DRAFT OF THE TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE SHARE IT WITH
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`·7· · · · PETITIONER.· ONCE EVERYBODY CONFIRMS THAT IT'S
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`·8· · · · ACCURATE, PLEASE FILE IT AS AN EXHIBIT IN THE 1302
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`·9· · · · CASE.
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`10· · · · · · · · MR. CHARKOW:· YES, YOUR HONOR.
`
`11· · · · · · · · · · · AND, TANYA, I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE
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`12· · · · THAT YOU'RE OKAY AND YOU HEAR EVERYBODY OKAY AND
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`13· · · · YOU ARE STARTING.
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`14· · · · · · · · THE COURT REPORTER:· YES.· GOOD MORNING,
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`15· · · · YOUR HONOR.· TANYA ROGERS, COURT REPORTER.
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`16· · · · · · · · JUDGE GERSTENBLITH:· GOOD MORNING.· THANK
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`17· · · · YOU.· YOU GOT ALL THAT THAT WHAT WE JUST DISCUSSED?
`
`18· · · · · · · · THE COURT REPORTER:· YES.· I'VE BEEN ON THE
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`19· · · · RECORD SINCE I HEARD YOUR VOICE, YOUR HONOR.
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`20· · · · · · · · JUDGE GERSTENBLITH:· PERFECT.· OKAY.
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`21· · · · · · · · · · · SO PATENT OWNER REQUESTED THE CALL.
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`22· · · · SO, MR. CHARKOW, I AM GOING TO GIVE YOU THE FLOOR.
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`23· · · · · · · · MR. CHARKOW:· THANK YOU, YOUR HONORS.
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`24· · · · · · · · · · · I JUST WANTED TO BRIEFLY ADDRESS ONE
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`25· · · · ISSUE ABOUT -- I THINK IT WAS TWO WEEKS AGO ON A
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`26· · · · FRIDAY WE HAD A CALL WITH RESPECT TO THE 1302 CASE.
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`27· · · · AND AT THE END OF THAT DISCUSSION, INTEL ASKED FOR
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`28· · · · A WRITTEN DECISION, AND I JUST WANTED TO BRIEFLY
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`HearingHearing
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`Intel Corporation vs.Intel Corporation vs.
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`ParkerVision, Inc.ParkerVision, Inc.
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`·1· · · · RESPOND TO THAT REQUEST AND CLARIFY ONE ISSUE JUST
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`·2· · · · SO THINGS ARE CLEAR FOR THE RECORD.
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`·3· · · · · · · · · · · SO INTEL REQUESTS THAT A WRITTEN
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`·4· · · · DECISION INCLUDES PARKERVISION'S REPRESENTATION
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`·5· · · · REGARDING SAMPLING, AND I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE
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`·6· · · · THAT ARE PARKERVISION'S REPRESENTATION IS CLEAR AND
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`·7· · · · INTEL CHARACTERIZES PARKERVISION'S --
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`·8· · · · · · · · · ·(TECHNOLOGICAL INTERRUPTION)
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`·9· · · · · · · · MR. CHARKOW:· I WILL JUST BACK UP AND
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`10· · · · RESTATE WHAT I SAID.
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`11· · · · · · · · · · · INTEL REQUESTED A WRITTEN DECISION TO
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`12· · · · INCLUDE WHAT INTEL SAYS IS PARKERVISION'S
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`13· · · · REPRESENTATION REGARDING SAMPLING.· AND I JUST WANT
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`14· · · · TO MAKE SURE PARKVISION'S REPRESENTATION IS CLEAR
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`15· · · · FOR THE RECORD.
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`16· · · · · · · · · · · INTEL CHARACTERIZES PARKERVISION'S
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`17· · · · POSITION, AT LEAST AS THEY DID IN THE LAST PAPER
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`18· · · · THAT THEY FILED, ARE MIXERS THAT MULTIPLIED SIGNALS
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`19· · · · ARE NOT SAMPLERS.
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`20· · · · · · · · · · · TO BE CLEAR THAT'S NOT PARKERVISION'S
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`21· · · · POSITION.· THAT'S INTEL'S VIEW OF OUR POSITION.
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`22· · · · · · · · · · · OUR POSITION OR PARKERVISION'S
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`23· · · · POSITION IN THE POR, AND TODAY, IS THAT THE CLAIMED
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`24· · · · SAMPLERS CAN BE MODELED TO MULTIPLY A SINE WAVE
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`25· · · · WITH A RECTANGULAR PULSE RESULTING IN A TRANSISTOR
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`26· · · · ACTING AS A SWITCH THAT SAMPLES.
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`27· · · · · · · · · · · THIS IS DIFFERENT THAN MIXERS OF THE
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`28· · · · PRIOR ART MARKED IN THE LARSON/BUTLER REFERENCES,
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`Intel Corporation vs.Intel Corporation vs.
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`ParkerVision, Inc.ParkerVision, Inc.
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`·1· · · · WHICH MULTIPLIED TWO SINE WAVES RESULTING IN NO
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`·2· · · · SAMPLING BECAUSE THE TRANSISTOR ACTS AS A
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`·3· · · · CONTINUOUS TIME VARYING RESISTOR.· OUR POINT WAS
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`·4· · · · THAT MULTIPLYING DIFFERENT SIGNALS RESULTS IN
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`·5· · · · TRANSISTORS OPERATING DIFFERENTLY, NOT THAT MIXERS
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`·6· · · · MULTIPLY AND ENERGY SAMPLERS DO NOT.
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`·7· · · · · · · · · · · INTEL FOCUSES ON A SINGLE SENTENCE IN
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`·8· · · · THEIR REPLY, AND THIS IS WHAT THEY WANT TO
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`·9· · · · REPRESENT -- TO SAY ABOUT REPRESENTATION, WHICH
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`10· · · · IT'S NOT.· ENERGY SAMPLERS, UNLIKE MIXERS, DO NOT
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`11· · · · MIX, I.E., MULTIPLY TWO SIGNALS TOGETHER IN ORDER
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`12· · · · TO DOWN CONVERT A SIGNAL.
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`13· · · · · · · · · · · BUT INTEL IGNORES THE CONTEXT THAT
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`14· · · · PARKERVISION WAS REFERRING TO THAT END AND
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`15· · · · PARKERVISION'S POINT, WHICH DEALS WITH MIXERS THAT
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`16· · · · MULTIPLY TWO SINE WAVES.
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`17· · · · · · · · · · · REGARDLESS, AS WE DISCUSSED WITH THE
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`18· · · · BOARD ABOUT TWO WEEKS AGO, PARKERVISION'S ONLY
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`19· · · · REPRESENTATION IS THAT THE CLAIMS REQUIRE SAMPLING.
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`20· · · · AND AS THE BOARD IS AWARE, BOTH PARTIES AGREE THAT
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`21· · · · SAMPLING IS IN THE CLAIMS, AND THE CLAIMS ARE NOT
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`22· · · · INVALID IN VIEW OF ALL THE CITED PRIOR ART; AND,
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`23· · · · THEREFORE, IT'S PARKERVISION'S POSITION THAT
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`24· · · · INTEL'S PETITION SHOULD BE DISMISSED.
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`25· · · · · · · · · · · AND I JUST WANTED THAT -- THAT'S ALL
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`26· · · · I WANTED TO CLARIFY FOR THE RECORD, YOUR HONOR,
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`27· · · · WHEN WE TALKED LAST TIME AT THE OTHER HEARING.
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`28· · · · · · · · JUDGE GERSTENBLITH:· SO -- THANK YOU.· SO
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`HearingHearing
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`Intel Corporation vs.Intel Corporation vs.
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`ParkerVision, Inc.ParkerVision, Inc.
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`·1· · · · FIRST LET ME SAY A COUPLE OF THINGS, AND THEN I
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`·2· · · · DON'T THINK WE NEED TO BELABOR THE POINT.
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`·3· · · · · · · · · · · BUT THE FIRST THING IS THE NOTION --
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`·4· · · · THE EXPLANATION THAT YOU JUST GAVE, IS THAT IN THE
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`·5· · · · SUR REPLY, PATENT OWNER'S SUR REPLY IN THIS CASE?
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`·6· · · · · · · · MR. CHARKOW:· IT'S DEFINITELY IN OUR POR,
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`·7· · · · AND I BELIEVE IT'S IN OUR SUR REPLY, BUT THIS IS
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`·8· · · · ALL SUPPORTED BY WHAT'S IN OUR DOCUMENTS.
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`·9· · · · · · · · MR. SUMMERSGILL:· YOUR HONOR, THIS IS
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`10· · · · MICHAEL SUMMERSGILL.· MAY I JUMP IN?· IT IS NOT IN
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`11· · · · THEIR POR OR THEIR SUR REPLY.
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`12· · · · · · · · JUDGE GERSTENBLITH:· OKAY.· SO I'M JUST
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`13· · · · GOING TO GO ONE AT A TIME.
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`14· · · · · · · · · · · MR. CHARKOW, IN THE SUR REPLY, YOU'RE
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`15· · · · SAYING -- LET ME EXPLAIN HOW I SEE WHAT HAPPENED IN
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`16· · · · THIS CASE, AND YOU GUYS TELL ME WHAT I'M MISSING,
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`17· · · · PLEASE.
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`18· · · · · · · · · · · THE PETITION SETS FORTH ITS THEORIES
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`19· · · · FOR INVALIDATING THE CLAIMS BASED ON THESE
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`20· · · · REFERENCES.· PATENT OWNER'S RESPONSE SETS FORTH A
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`21· · · · CLAIM CONSTRUCTION AND NOTES THE INCORPORATION OF
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`22· · · · THE '551 PATENT AND ITS EFFECT WITH RESPECT TO
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`23· · · · SAMPLING.
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`24· · · · · · · · · · · PETITIONER'S REPLY ACKNOWLEDGES THAT
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`25· · · · THIS CLAIM CONSTRUCTION -- THAT PATENT OWNER
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`26· · · · PRESENTED A CLAIM CONSTRUCTION THAT REFLECTS THE
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`27· · · · '551 PATENT'S INFLUENCE IN SOME WAY.· AND
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`28· · · · PETITIONER AGREES, IN LIGHT OF PATENT OWNER'S
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`Intel Corporation vs.Intel Corporation vs.
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`ParkerVision, Inc.ParkerVision, Inc.
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`·1· · · · RESPONSE, PETITIONER AGREES THAT THE CLAIMS REQUIRE
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`·2· · · · SAMPLING.
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`·3· · · · · · · · · · · AND PETITIONER AGREES THAT IF THE
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`·4· · · · CLAIMS REQUIRE SAMPLING, THEN THE ART THAT IS
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`·5· · · · PRESENTED IN THE PETITION DOES NOT INVALIDATE THE
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`·6· · · · CLAIMS THAT WE HAVE BEFORE US.
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`·7· · · · · · · · · · · PETITIONER ALSO NOTES IN THE REPLY
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`·8· · · · THAT WE NEED NOT DECIDE WHICH TERM IN WHICH CLAIM
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`·9· · · · BRINGS IN THE SAMPLING REQUIREMENT BECAUSE,
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`10· · · · WHICHEVER ONE IT IS, THE PARTIES AGREE THAT IT'S
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`11· · · · THERE SOMEHOW AND THAT THE ART DOESN'T TEACH
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`12· · · · SAMPLING IN THE WAY THAT IT WOULD BE REQUIRED FOR
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`13· · · · THESE CLAIMS.
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`14· · · · · · · · · · · IN PATENT OWNER'S SUR REPLY IN
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`15· · · · RESPONSE TO THIS, I ONLY SEE DISCUSSION FROM WHAT I
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`16· · · · CAN TELL IN THE VERY FIRST PARAGRAPH ON PAGE 1 THAT
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`17· · · · SPEAKS TO THE AGREEMENT THAT WAS MADE I GUESS IN
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`18· · · · PETITIONER'S REPLY THAT THE CLAIMS REQUIRE SAMPLING
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`19· · · · AND THAT THE REFERENCES NO LONGER -- PETITIONER NO
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`20· · · · LONGER ASSERTS THAT THOSE REFERENCES INVALIDATE THE
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`21· · · · CLAIMS.
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`22· · · · · · · · · · · I DON'T SEE ANYTHING ELSE IN THE SUR
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`23· · · · REPLY SPEAKING TO THIS ISSUE, AND I DON'T SEE
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`24· · · · ANYTHING IN THE SUR REPLY REQUESTING THAT THE
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`25· · · · PETITION BE DISMISSED OR IN THE PATENT OWNER
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`26· · · · RESPONSE REQUESTING THAT THE PETITIONER -- THAT THE
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`27· · · · PETITION BE DISMISSED.
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`28· · · · · · · · · · · SO, MR. CHARKOW, CAN YOU POINT ME TO
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`Intel Corporation vs.Intel Corporation vs.
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`ParkerVision, Inc.ParkerVision, Inc.
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`·1· · · · SOMETHING THAT'S ALREADY IN THE RECORD, AS THE
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`·2· · · · BRIEFING IN THIS CASE IS CLOSED, WHAT DO WE HAVE IN
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`·3· · · · THE RECORD THAT'S SETTING FORTH WHAT YOU'RE SEEKING
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`·4· · · · TO PUT ON THE RECORD NOW WITH THIS PHONE CALL?
`
`·5· · · · · · · · MR. CHARKOW:· SO, YOUR HONOR, WHAT I'M JUST
`
`·6· · · · TRYING TO DO IS CLARIFY WHAT'S ALREADY IN THE POR
`
`·7· · · · AND WHAT IS IN THE SUR REPLY, WHICH IS THAT INTEL
`
`·8· · · · HAS AGREED THAT THERE'S NOTHING, YOU KNOW, LEFT IN
`
`·9· · · · THE CASE WITH REGARD -- SAMPLING IS IN --
`
`10· · · · CONSIDERED TO BE IN THE CLAIMS.
`
`11· · · · · · · · · · · THERE'S NOTHING LEFT OF THEIR PRIOR
`
`12· · · · ART.· THEIR PRIOR ART IS DONE.
`
`13· · · · · · · · · · · AND JUST TO BE CLEAR, WE -- NOTHING I
`
`14· · · · SAID IS DISAGREEING THAT SAMPLING IS IN THE CLAIMS,
`
`15· · · · RIGHT?· AGAIN, AS YOUR HONOR STATED ACCURATELY,
`
`16· · · · IT'S JUST WHERE IT IS IN THE CLAIMS BUT ULTIMATELY
`
`17· · · · IT DOESN'T MAKE A DIFFERENCE.· SO WE ARE NOT
`
`18· · · · CHANGING OUR POSITION.
`
`19· · · · · · · · · · · WHAT I WAS JUST CLARIFYING IS THAT
`
`20· · · · INTEL IN THEIR BRIEFING HAS RELIED ON A VERY
`
`21· · · · SPECIFIC SENTENCE AND FOCUSED ON THAT SENTENCE AND
`
`22· · · · APPEARS TO BE SEEKING THAT TO BE PARKERVISION'S
`
`23· · · · REPRESENTATION.
`
`24· · · · · · · · · · · AND THAT SENTENCE IS NOT -- THERE'S A
`
`25· · · · LOT OF PARAGRAPHS AND PROBABLY PAGES AND PAGES OF
`
`26· · · · DISCUSSION AROUND THAT SINGLE SENTENCE.· AND WE
`
`27· · · · JUST WANTED TO MAKE IT CLEAR THAT THAT IS NOT, YOU
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`28· · · · KNOW, CONTRARY TO INTEL'S POSITION, THAT IS NOT
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`HearingHearing
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`Intel Corporation vs.Intel Corporation vs.
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`ParkerVision, Inc.ParkerVision, Inc.
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`·1· · · · OUR -- YOU KNOW, OUR, QUOTE/UNQUOTE, REPRESENTATION
`
`·2· · · · OR, YOU KNOW, INTEL WANTS THAT TO BE OUR
`
`·3· · · · REPRESENTATION, BUT THAT'S NOT OUR REPRESENTATION.
`
`·4· · · · · · · · · · · AND SO THAT -- THAT WAS ONLY -- THE
`
`·5· · · · ONLY POINT OF THIS CALL, YOUR HONOR.· IN TERMS OF,
`
`·6· · · · YOU KNOW, SPECIFICS THAT I GAVE IS ALL STUFF -- IS
`
`·7· · · · ALL MATERIAL THAT'S IN THE RECORD.· I'M NOT ADDING
`
`·8· · · · ANYTHING.· IT'S IN THE RECORD.
`
`·9· · · · · · · · JUDGE GERSTENBLITH:· OKAY.· SO WHERE DOES
`
`10· · · · PATENT OWNER REQUEST DISMISSING THE PETITION IN THE
`
`11· · · · RECORD?
`
`12· · · · · · · · MR. CHARKOW:· IN THE POR, IN THE FIRST
`
`13· · · · BRIEF WE FILED AT THE CONCLUSION.· I BELIEVE WE
`
`14· · · · SAID THAT WE REQUEST DISMISSAL OF THE -- OF THE
`
`15· · · · PETITION.· JUST -- GIVE ME A SECOND, YOUR HONOR.
`
`16· · · · · · · · · · · STEPHANIE, DO YOU HAVE THE ORIGINAL
`
`17· · · · POR THAT WE FILED?· STEPHANIE?
`
`18· · · · · · · · MS. MANDIR:· YEAH.· LET ME PULL THAT UP.
`
`19· · · · · · · · · · · (PAUSE IN PROCEEDINGS.)
`
`20· · · · · · · · JUDGE GERSTENBLITH:· SO AS I LOOK AT THE
`
`21· · · · PATENT OWNER RESPONSE I WILL JUST MENTION THAT IT
`
`22· · · · SAYS "THE PETITION SHOULD BE DENIED" AT THE END.
`
`23· · · · I'M NOT EVEN SURE, TO BE COMPLETELY HONEST, WHAT
`
`24· · · · THAT MEANS BECAUSE WE INSTITUTED THE CASE ALREADY
`
`25· · · · SO THE PETITION WARRANTED, IN OUR VIEW, INSTITUTING
`
`26· · · · THE CASE.
`
`27· · · · · · · · · · · ONCE WE DO THAT, THE QUESTION IS
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`28· · · · WHETHER THE CLAIMS ARE UNPATENTABLE OR PATENTABLE
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`HearingHearing
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`Intel Corporation vs.Intel Corporation vs.
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`ParkerVision, Inc.ParkerVision, Inc.
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`·1· · · · OR ARE SHOWN TO BE UNPATENTABLE OR NOT SHOWN TO BE
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`·2· · · · UNPATENTABLE.
`
`·3· · · · · · · · · · · IF THAT'S WHAT -- IF THE PETITION
`
`·4· · · · SHOULD BE DENIED IS MEANT TO BE UNDERSTOOD AS THE
`
`·5· · · · PETITION SHOULD BE DISMISSED, THEN THAT'S A VERY
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`·6· · · · UNUSUAL WAY OF STATING IT AND A VERY UNUSUAL PLACE
`
`·7· · · · TO PUT IT; AT THE END OF A PATENT OWNER RESPONSE,
`
`·8· · · · WHICH IS TALKING ABOUT THE MERITS OF THE CASE.· SO
`
`·9· · · · I WILL JUST LEAVE IT LIKE THAT.
`
`10· · · · · · · · · · · IS THERE ANY REASON ASSUMING THAT WE
`
`11· · · · DID NOT UNDERSTAND THE PATENT OWNER RESPONSE TO BE
`
`12· · · · ASKING FOR THE PETITION TO BE DISMISSED, IS THERE
`
`13· · · · ANY REASON THAT -- WELL, LET ME ASK THIS.
`
`14· · · · · · · · · · · IS PATENT OWNER ASKING SOMETHING FOR
`
`15· · · · DIFFERENT THAN US WRITING A FINAL WRITTEN DECISION?
`
`16· · · · · · · · MR. CHARKOW:· NO, YOUR HONOR.· WE ARE NOT.
`
`17· · · · I MEAN, WE CLEARLY SEEK THE PETITION TO BE
`
`18· · · · DISMISSED, BUT WE ARE NOT ASKING ANYTHING -- NO. I
`
`19· · · · MEAN, WE ARE NOT ASKING THAT A WRITTEN DECISION NOT
`
`20· · · · BE ISSUED.· WE ARE JUST SAYING WE WANT TO MAKE IT
`
`21· · · · CLEAR WHAT OUR POSITION IS, AND INTEL SEEMS TO HAVE
`
`22· · · · A DIFFERENT VIEW OF OUR POSITION.
`
`23· · · · · · · · JUDGE GERSTENBLITH:· OKAY.· OKAY.· WELL,
`
`24· · · · THAT ACTUALLY CLARIFIES A LOT.
`
`25· · · · · · · · · · · SO YOU'RE NOT LOOKING FOR SOMETHING
`
`26· · · · DIFFERENT THAN A FINAL WRITTEN DECISION?
`
`27· · · · · · · · MR. CHARKOW:· CORRECT, YOUR HONOR.· I'M NOT
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`28· · · · LOOKING FOR ANYTHING OTHER THAN THE FINAL WRITTEN
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`Intel Corporation vs.Intel Corporation vs.
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`ParkerVision, Inc.ParkerVision, Inc.
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`·1· · · · DECISION.· I JUST DIDN'T WANT INTEL'S
`
`·2· · · · CHARACTERIZATION OF OUR POSITION TO SOMEHOW, YOU
`
`·3· · · · KNOW, BECOME OUR POSITION.
`
`·4· · · · · · · · JUDGE GERSTENBLITH:· UNDERSTOOD.
`
`·5· · · · · · · · MR. CHARKOW:· THAT WAS KIND OF THE REASON
`
`·6· · · · FOR THIS CALL.· AND I DON'T WANT ANYTHING -- I'M
`
`·7· · · · NOT SEEKING ANYTHING OTHER THAN A WRITTEN DECISION.
`
`·8· · · · · · · · · · · SO WE DON'T DISAGREE THAT THE BOARD
`
`·9· · · · SHOULD DO WHATEVER THE BOARD DOES, WHETHER IT'S A
`
`10· · · · WRITTEN DECISION, WHATEVER THE BOARD DEEMS TO BE
`
`11· · · · APPROPRIATE.· WE ARE NOT SAYING -- THAT'S NOT OUR
`
`12· · · · POSITION.· YOU KNOW, THAT'S NOT OUR PLACE TO SAY
`
`13· · · · WHAT THE BOARD SHOULD OR SHOULDN'T DO.· WE JUST
`
`14· · · · WANTED TO MAKE SURE OUR POSITION WAS CLEAR AND THAT
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`15· · · · IT WASN'T MISCHARACTERIZED IN ANY WAY.
`
`16· · · · · · · · JUDGE GERSTENBLITH:· OKAY.· I'M NOT GOING
`
`17· · · · TO GET INTO THE DIFFERENCES, BUT THERE IS A TERM
`
`18· · · · "DISMISSING THE PETITION" WHICH MAY BE DIFFERENT
`
`19· · · · THAN WRITING A FINAL WRITTEN DECISION.· WE DON'T
`
`20· · · · NEED TO GET INTO IT BECAUSE I UNDERSTAND YOU'RE NOT
`
`21· · · · ASKING FOR THAT.· THAT'S WHY I WAS ASKING THE
`
`22· · · · QUESTIONS THAT I WAS ASKING, JUST -- JUST FOR FULL
`
`23· · · · CLARIFICATION.
`
`24· · · · · · · · · · · ON THE -- WHAT IS PATENT OWNER'S
`
`25· · · · POSITION ON THE CLAIMS AND HOW PETITIONER HAS
`
`26· · · · PRESENTED IT OR PATENT OWNER HAS PRESENTED IT, THE
`
`27· · · · BRIEFS SPEAK TO ALL THOSE ISSUES.· WE ARE NOT
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`28· · · · TAKING ARGUMENT ON TODAY'S CALL ABOUT POSITIONS
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`Intel Corporation vs.Intel Corporation vs.
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`ParkerVision, Inc.ParkerVision, Inc.
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`·1· · · · THAT ARE ALREADY SET FORTH IN THE BRIEFING.
`
`·2· · · · · · · · · · · TO THAT END, BECAUSE, MR. CHARKOW,
`
`·3· · · · YOU'VE GOT TO EXPLAIN YOUR POSITION, I'M NOT
`
`·4· · · · LOOKING TO HAVE A BACK-AND-FORTH HERE, BUT TO THE
`
`·5· · · · EXTENT MR. SUMMERSGILL OR SOMEONE FROM PETITIONER'S
`
`·6· · · · SIDE WANTS A VERY EXTREMELY SHORT RESPONSE, YOU MAY
`
`·7· · · · DO THAT NOW.
`
`·8· · · · · · · · MR. SUMMERSGILL:· THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. I
`
`·9· · · · WILL KEEP IT BRIEF.
`
`10· · · · · · · · · · · IN ITS PAPERS, THE PATENT OWNER
`
`11· · · · DISTINGUISHED THE CLAIMS OVER THE PRIOR ART ON AN
`
`12· · · · EXPRESS BASIS THAT THE CLAIMS REQUIRE SAMPLED, AND
`
`13· · · · THE CITED MIXER ART DOES NOT PERFORM SAMPLING.· THE
`
`14· · · · SUGGESTION THAT WE SOMEHOW MISCHARACTERIZED THEIR
`
`15· · · · POSITION IS JUST WRONG.
`
`16· · · · · · · · · · · WE QUOTED VERBATIM ON SLIDES 21
`
`17· · · · AND 22 OF OUR DEMONSTRATIVE WHAT THEY SAID AND ON
`
`18· · · · PAGE 1 OF OUR REPLY BRIEF.· FOR INSTANCE, WE QUOTED
`
`19· · · · THEIR POR AT PAGE 22.
`
`20· · · · · · · · · · · WE'D SUGGEST THAT THEY ARE NOW TRYING
`
`21· · · · TO SUPPLEMENT THE RECORD WITH ARGUMENTS THAT THEY
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`22· · · · DID NOT MAKE IN THEIR POR OR THEIR SUR REPLY, AND
`
`23· · · · THAT NOTHING THAT MR. CHARKOW IS TRYING TO ADD TO
`
`24· · · · THE RECORD TODAY SHOULD BE CONSIDERED PROPERLY PART
`
`25· · · · OF THE RECORD FOR THREE QUICK REASONS.
`
`26· · · · · · · · · · · FIRST, AS YOUR HONOR HAS SUGGESTED
`
`27· · · · AND NOTED, AWARE OF THE RULE PROHIBIT PATENT OWNER
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`28· · · · FROM MAKING NEW ARGUMENTS AT THIS STAGE.
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`Intel Corporation vs.Intel Corporation vs.
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`ParkerVision, Inc.ParkerVision, Inc.
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · SECOND, WE HAVE REPEATEDLY RELIED ON
`
`·2· · · · THEIR REPRESENTATIONS IN THEIR PAPERS, IN OUR
`
`·3· · · · BRIEFING, IN THE DEPOSITIONS AND FOR THE, YOU KNOW,
`
`·4· · · · FOR THE CONCLUSIONS THAT WE'VE REACHED.
`
`·5· · · · · · · · · · · AND, THIRD, IT WOULD OF COURSE CREATE
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`·6· · · · A PERVERSE INCENTIVE FOR FUTURE LITIGANTS.· IF A
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`·7· · · · PATENT OWNER'S NOT HELD TO THE REPRESENTATIONS IN
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`·8· · · · THEIR PAPERS, IT WOULD ALLOW THEM TO SAY ONE THING
`
`·9· · · · IN ORDER TO PRESERVE VALIDITY AND THEN WALK AWAY
`
`10· · · · FROM THOSE STATEMENTS LATER.
`
`11· · · · · · · · · · · SO FOR THESE REASONS, YOUR HONORS, WE
`
`12· · · · RESPECTFULLY REQUEST THAT THE BOARD NOT CONSIDER
`
`13· · · · PATENT OWNER'S NEW ARGUMENTS, MAKE CLEAR THAT THEY
`
`14· · · · ARE NOT PROPERLY PART OF THE RECORD, AND ISSUE A
`
`15· · · · FINAL WRITTEN DECISION THAT REFLECTS WHAT BOTH THE
`
`16· · · · PARTIES STATED IN THEIR PAPERS WITH RESPECT TO THE
`
`17· · · · SCOPE OF THE CLAIMS AND THE DISTINCTIONS OVER THE
`
`18· · · · CITED ART.
`
`19· · · · · · · · · · · THANK YOU.
`
`20· · · · · · · · JUDGE GERSTENBLITH:· OKAY.· LET ME PUT
`
`21· · · · EVERYBODY ON HOLD JUST FOR A SECOND SO I CAN CONFER
`
`22· · · · WITH THE PANEL, PLEASE.
`
`23· · · · · · · · ·(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD.)
`
`24· · · · · · · · JUDGE GERSTENBLITH:· OKAY.· THANK YOU ALL
`
`25· · · · FOR HOLDING.
`
`26· · · · · · · · · · · I DON'T THINK WE HAVE ANYTHING ELSE.
`
`27· · · · I WILL JUST SAY THAT WE APPRECIATE THE PATENT OWNER
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`28· · · · CLARIFYING ITS POSITION ON WHETHER IT WAS
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`HearingHearing
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`Intel Corporation vs.Intel Corporation vs.
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`ParkerVision, Inc.ParkerVision, Inc.
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`·1· · · · REQUESTING DISMISSAL OF THE PETITION OR REACHING A
`
`·2· · · · FINAL WRITTEN DECISION.
`
`·3· · · · · · · · · · · WE HAVE ALL THE POSITIONS AS SET
`
`·4· · · · FORTH IN THE BRIEFING, AND WE DON'T SEE ANY OTHER
`
`·5· · · · ISSUES FOR TODAY.
`
`·6· · · · · · · · · · · JUST BEFORE WE HANG UP, SINCE
`
`·7· · · · EVERYBODY IS HERE, IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE FROM
`
`·8· · · · PETITIONER'S SIDE THAT WE SHOULD BE TALKING ABOUT?
`
`·9· · · · · · · · MR. SUMMERSGILL:· NOTHING, YOUR HONORS.
`
`10· · · · · · · · JUDGE GERSTENBLITH:· OKAY.· AND ANYTHING
`
`11· · · · ELSE FROM --
`
`12· · · · · · · · MR. SUMMERSGILL:· THANK YOU.
`
`13· · · · · · · · JUDGE GERSTENBLITH:· YOU'RE WELCOME.
`
`14· · · · · · · · · · · IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE FROM PATENT'S
`
`15· · · · SIDE, MR. CHARKOW?
`
`16· · · · · · · · MR. CHARKOW:· NOT IN THIS CASE, YOUR HONOR,
`
`17· · · · BUT I HAVE ANOTHER UPDATE.· WE CAN GO OFF THE
`
`18· · · · RECORD ON THIS CASE, AND I CAN UPDATE YOU ON THE
`
`19· · · · OTHER CASE IN TERMS OF SOME OTHER STUFF THAT WE
`
`20· · · · TALKED ABOUT.· SO WE CAN STAY ON THE RECORD AND
`
`21· · · · TALK ABOUT THE 1265.· I JUST -- I CAN UPDATE YOU ON
`
`22· · · · SOMETHING THERE, OR WE COULD GO OFF THE RECORD.
`
`23· · · · · · · · JUDGE GERSTENBLITH:· OKAY.· THANK YOU.
`
`24· · · · · · · · · · · LET'S GO OFF THE RECORD THEN.· WE
`
`25· · · · DON'T NEED THE TRANSCRIPT OF THIS PORTION.
`
`26· · · · · · · · ·(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD.)
`
`27· · · · · · · · · · · · ·END TIME 6:20 A.M.
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`28
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE
`
`
`Intel Corporation vs.Intel Corporation vs.
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`ParkerVision, Inc.ParkerVision, Inc.
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`·2
`
`·3· · · · IPR2020-01302
`
`·4· · · · U.S. PATENT NO. 7,539,474
`
`·5
`
`·6· · · · · · ·UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
`·7· · · · · · · · · · ____________________________
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`·8· · · · · · · BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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`·9· · · · · · · · · · ____________________________
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`10· · · · · · · · · · · · · INTEL CORPORATION
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`11· · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·PETITIONER
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`12· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·V.
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`13· · · · · · · · · · · · ·PARKERVISION, INC.
`
`14· · · · · · · · · · · · · · PATENT OWNER
`
`15· · · · · · · · · · · U.S. PATENT NO. 7,539,474
`
`16· · · · · · · · · · · ISSUE DATE:· MAY 26, 2009
`
`17· · · · ·TITLE:· DC OFFSET, RE-RADIATION, AND I/Q SOLUTIONS
`
`18· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·USING
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`19· · · · · · ·UNIVERSAL FREQUENCY TRANSLATION TECHNOLOGY
`
`20· · · · ·___________________________________________________
`
`21· · · · · · · · · · · · · _______________
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`22· · · · · · · · INTER PARTES REVIEW NO. IPR2020-01302
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`23
`
`24· · · · · · · · I, TANYA ROGERS, CSR 10178, RPR, OFFICIAL
`
`25· · · · REPORTER OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA, FOR THE COUNTY
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`26· · · · OF VENTURA, DO HEREBY CERTIFY THAT THE FOREGOING
`
`27· · · · PAGES NUMBERED 1 THROUGH 17, INCLUSIVE, ARE A FULL,
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`28· · · · TRUE AND CORRECT TRANSCRIPT OF THE PROCEEDINGS HELD
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`Intel Corporation vs.Intel Corporation vs.
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`ParkerVision, Inc.ParkerVision, Inc.
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`·1· · · · ON NOVEMBER 10, 2021, IN THE ABOVE-ENTITLED CAUSE.
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`·2· · · · · · · · · DATED AT VENTURA, CALIFORNIA, THIS 18TH
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`·3· · · · DAY OF NOVEMBER 2021.
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`·4
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`·5
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`·6
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`·7· · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·____________________________
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·TANYA ROGERS, CSR 10178, RPR
`·8· · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·OFFICIAL REPORTER, PRO TEMPORE
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`·9
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`10
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`11
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`12
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`13
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`14
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`15
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`16
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`17
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`18
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`19
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`Hearing
`Hearing
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`-
`
`---OOO--- 3:3
`
`1
`
`1 8:16 13:18
`10 3:1
`1265 15:21
`1302 4:8,26
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`2
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`2021 3:1
`21 13:16
`22 13:17,19
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`5
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`551 7:22,27
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`6
`
`6:00 3:2
`6:20 15:27
`
`A
`
`A.M. 3:2 15:27
`ACCURATE 4:8
`ACCURATELY 9:15
`ACKNOWLEDGES
` 7:24
`ACTING 5:26
`ACTS 6:2
`ADD 13:23
`
`ADDING 10:7
`ADDRESS 4:24
`AGO 4:25 6:18
`AGREE 6:20 8:10
`AGREED 9:8
`AGREEMENT 8:17
`AGREES 7:28 8:1,3
`AHMED 3:10
`ALLOW 14:8
`APPEARS 9:22
`APPRECIATE 14:27
`APPROPRIATE
` 12:11
`ARGUMENT 12:28
`ARGUMENTS 13:21,
` 28 14:13
`ARRANGING 4:4
`ART 5:28 6:22 8:4,11
` 9:12 13:11,13 14:18
`ASKED 4:27
`ASKING 11:12,14,18,
` 19 12:21,22
`ASSERTS 8:20
`ASSUMING 11:10
`AWARE 6:20 13:27
`
`B
`
`BACK 5:9
`BACK-AND-FORTH
` 13:4
`BASED 7:19
`BASIS 13:12
`BEHALF 3:6,7,16,24
`
`BELABOR 7:2
`BELIEVE 7:7 10:13
`BOARD 3:27 4:1
` 6:18,20 12:8,9,10,13
` 14:12
`BRIEF 10:13 13:9,18
`BRIEFING 9:2,20
` 13:1 14:3 15:4
`BRIEFLY 4:24,28
`BRIEFS 12:27
`BRINGS 8:9
`
`C
`
`CALIFORNIA 3:1
`CALL 3:11 4:21,26
` 9:4 10:5 12:6,28
`CASE 4:9,26 7:5,16
` 9:2,9 10:24,26 11:8
` 15:16,18,19
`CHANGING 9:18
`CHARACTERIZATIO
`N 12:2
`CHARACTERIZES
` 5:7,16
`CHARKOW 3:22,23
` 4:4,10,22,23 5:9 7:6,
` 14 8:28 9:5 10:12
` 11:16,27 12:5 13:2,
` 23 15:15,16
`CITED 6:22 13:13
` 14:18
`CLAIM 7:21,25,26 8:8
`CLAIMED 5:23
`CLAIMS 6:19,21 7:19
` 8:1,4,6,13,18,21
` 9:10,14,16 10