Case 6:20-cv-01131-ADA Document 57-2 Filed 09/20/21 Page 1 of 103
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`Exhibit B
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`Case 6:20-cv-01131-ADA Document 57-2 Filed 09/20/21 Page 2 of 103
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`IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
`FOR THE WESTERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS
`WACO DIVISION
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`STRATOSAUDIO INC.,
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` Plaintiff,
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` -against-
` Case No.
` 6:20-cv-01125-ADA
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`HYUNDAI MOTOR AMERICA,
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` Defendant.
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`STRATOSAUDIO INC.,
` Plaintiff,
` -against-
` Case No.
` 6:20-cv-01126-ADA
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`MAZDA MOTORS OF AMERICA,
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` Defendant.
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`STRATOSAUDIO INC.,
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` Plaintiff,
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` -against-
` Case No.
` 6:20-cv-01128-ADA
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`SUBARU OF AMERICA,
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` Defendant.
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`212-279-9424
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`Veritext Legal Solutions
`www.veritext.com
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`212-490-3430
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`Case 6:20-cv-01131-ADA Document 57-2 Filed 09/20/21 Page 3 of 103
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`1 SHEARMAN & STERLING LLP
` Attorneys for Volkswagen Group of America
`2 599 Lexington Avenue
` New York, New York 10022
`3 BY: MARK HANNEMANN, ESQ.
` mark.hannemann@shearman.com
`4 ERIC LUCAS, ESQ.
` eric.Lucas@Shearman.com
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`5
`
`Also Present:
`
` JONATHAN DeFILIPPO, Videographer
`7 Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`6
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`89
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`10
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`1 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -x
`2 STRATOSAUDIO INC.,
`3 Plaintiff,
`4 -against-
` Case No.
`5 6:20-cv-01129-ADA
`6 VOLVO CARS USA, LLC,
`7 Defendant.
`8 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -x
`9 STRATOSAUDIO INC.,
`10 Plaintiff,
`11 -against-
` Case No.
`12 6:20-CV-01131-ADA
`13 VOLKSWAGEN GROUP OF AMERICA, INC.,
`14 Defendant.
`15 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -x
`16
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` September 17, 2021
`17 9:11 a.m.
`18
`19 VIDEOTAPED ZOOM DEPOSITION of WILLIAM
`20 MANGIONE-SMITH, Ph.D., the Expert Witness
`21 in the above-entitled action, located in
`22 Kirkland, Washington, taken before Dawn
`23 Matera, a Shorthand Reporter and Notary
`24 Public of the State of New York.
`25
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`1 I N D E X
`2 Witness Page
`3 WILLIAM MANGIONE-SMITH 6
`4
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` E X H I B I T S
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`No. Page
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`Exhibit 1 '806 Patent 5
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`Exhibit 2 '843 Patent 5
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`Exhibit 3 Mangione-Smith Declaration 5
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`Exhibit 4 Declaration of T. Williams 5
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`Exhibit 5 Google Ngram viewer-stream 10
`11 analysis module
`12 Exhibit 6 Google Ngram viewer-stream 10
` scanner module
`
`13
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`Exhibit 7 Google Ngram 11
`14 viewer-broadcast scanning
` module
`
`15
`
`Exhibit 8 Document consisting of 33
`16 detailed office action
`17 ~oOo~
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
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`Page 3
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`1 A P P E A R A N C E S :
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`23
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` WHITE & CASE, LLP
` Attorneys for Plaintiff
`4 3000 El Camino Real, 9th Floor 2
` Palo Alto, California 94306
`5 BY: JONATHAN J. LAMBERSON, ESQ.
` lamberson@whitecase.com
`6 HENRY HUANG, ESQ.
` henry.huang@whitecase.com
`
`7
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` O'MELVENY & MYERS LLP
`8 Attorneys for Hyundai Motor America
` 400 South Hope Street
`9 Los Angeles, California 90071]
` BY: CLARENCE ROWLAND, ESQ.
`10 crowland@omm.com
`11
`
` DLA PIPER
`12 Attorneys for Mazda Motors of America
` and Subaru Motors of America
`13 444 West Lake Street, Suite 900
` Chicago, Illinois 60606-0089
`14 BY: MATTHEW SATCHWELL, ESQ.
` matthew.satchwell@dlapiper.com
`15 ROBERT GROSELAK, ESQ.
` robert.groselak@dlapiper.com
`16 -and-
` 2000 University Avenue
`17 Palo Alto, California 94303
` BY: SANGWON SUNG, ESQ.
`
`18
`19 HUDNELL LAW GROUP
` Attorneys for Volvo Cars USA, LLC
`20 800 W El Camino Real
` Mountain View, California 94040
`21 BY: LEWIS E. HUDNELL III. ESQ.
` lewis@hudnelllaw.com
`
`22
`23
`24
`25
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`212-279-9424
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`www.veritext.com
`
`2 (Pages 2 - 5)
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`212-490-3430
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`Case 6:20-cv-01131-ADA Document 57-2 Filed 09/20/21 Page 4 of 103
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`Page 6
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`1 (Exhibit 1, '806 Patent, was so
`2 marked for identification, as of this
`3 date.)
`4 (Exhibit 2, '843 Patent, was so
`5 marked for identification, as of this
`6 date.)
`7 (Exhibit 3, Mangione-Smith
`8 Declaration, was so marked for
`9 identification, as of this date.)
`10 (Exhibit 4, Declaration of
`11 T. Williams, was so marked for
`12 identification, as of this date.)
`13 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Good morning.
`14 We are going on the record at 9:11
`15 a.m. on September 17th, 2021.
`16 Please mute your audio input if
`17 not a speaking party, as your
`18 microphones and sensitive and can pick
`19 up whispering and background noise.
`20 Please turn off all cell phones or
`21 place them away from your computer as
`22 they can interfere with the deposition
`23 audio. Audio and video recording will
`24 continue to take place unless all of
`25 the parties agree to go off the
`
`Page 8
`1 MR. HANNEMANN: Mark Hanneman
`2 and Eric Lucas for Volkswagen.
`3 MR. SATCHWELL: Matt Satchwell,
`4 Robert Groselak and Sangwon Sung for
`5 Mazda and separately for Subaru, all
`6 with DLA Piper.
`7 MR. HUDNELL: Lewis Hudnell,
`8 Hudnell Law Group, for Volvo Car USA.
`9 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Okay. Will
`10 the court reporter please swear in the
`11 witness.
`12 W I L L I A M M A N G I O N E - S M I T H,
`13 the Witness herein, having first been
`14 duly sworn by the Notary Public, was
`15 examined and testified as follows:
`16 EXAMINATION BY MR. HANNEMANN:
`17 Q. Good morning,
`18 Dr. Mangione-Smith. Did I say that
`19 right?
`20 A. Yes.
`21 Q. Excellent. When is the first
`22 time you remember hearing the phrase
`23 "stream analysis module"?
`24 A. That I remember, it was
`25 probably when I read these patents.
`
`Page 7
`
`1 record.
`2 This is media unit 1 in the
`3 video-recorded deposition of
`4 Dr. William Mangione-Smith, in the
`5 Matter of In Re Several Stratosaudio
`6 cases filed in the Western District of
`7 Texas. This deposition is being held
`8 via video conference with the witness
`9 located in Kirkland, Washington.
`10 My name is Jonathan DeFilippo
`11 from the firm of Veritext. I am the
`12 videographer. The court reporter is
`13 Dawn Matera from the firm of Veritext.
`14 I am not authorized to
`15 administer an oath. I am not related
`16 to any party in this action nor am I
`17 financially interested in the outcome.
`18 Counsel and all present in the
`19 room and everyone attending remotely
`20 will now state their appearances and
`21 affiliations for the record.
`22 MR. LAMBERSON: Jonathan
`23 Lamberson, from White & Case for the
`24 Plaintiff. And Henry Huang is here
`25 with me as well.
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`Page 9
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`1 Q. How about when was the first
`2 time you heard the phrase "stream scanner
`3 module"?
`4 A. That I recall, certainly likely
`5 when I read these patents as well.
`6 Q. Okay. And the last one. When
`7 was the first time you heard the phrase
`8 "broadcast scanning module"?
`9 A. As best I can recall sitting
`10 here today, it's when I read these
`11 patents.
`12 Q. So is it correct that to your
`13 knowledge these three phrases were coined
`14 by the inventors in these patent
`15 applications?
`16 A. No.
`17 Q. Okay. Who coined these
`18 phrases?
`19 A. I haven't endeavored to answer
`20 that question. I don't know. The
`21 phrases were not difficult for me to
`22 understand. I don't know that anybody
`23 coined them in particular.
`24 Q. Well, to your knowledge, were
`25 any of those three phrases ever used
`3 (Pages 6 - 9)
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`Case 6:20-cv-01131-ADA Document 57-2 Filed 09/20/21 Page 5 of 103
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`1 before the patent applications at issue
`2 here?
`3 A. To my knowledge, no. Like I
`4 said, I think that I first -- to my
`5 knowledge, I first recall hearing them
`6 when I reviewed the patents in this
`7 matter.
`8 Q. Okay. Are you familiar with
`9 the Google Ngram Viewer?
`10 A. A little bit. Not a lot but a
`11 little bit.
`12 Q. Can you say just generally what
`13 that is?
`14 A. My recollection is it's a tool
`15 for doing some degree of similarity
`16 analysis between texts. You know, I
`17 don't have any great knowledge of it.
`18 Could you give me just a
`19 moment. I am trying -- I am sorry, I
`20 should have done this before -- and I am
`21 trying to get the output to come to my
`22 speakers which let's me hear you a little
`23 bit better and it's --
`24 Q. Sure, sir, take your time, no
`25 problem.
`
`Page 10
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`Page 12
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`1 date.)
`2 (Exhibit 7, Google Ngram
`3 viewer-broadcast scanning module, was
`4 so marked for identification, as of
`5 this date.)
`6 A. I am refreshing my screen. I
`7 assume it will be there in just a moment.
`8 Q. Yeah, it does seem to be a
`9 little laggy here.
`10 A. All right I have it.
`11 Q. You do, okay, good. So what
`12 Exhibit 5 is showing us is that "stream
`13 analysis module," that phrase, has never
`14 appeared in any of the tens of millions
`15 of books scanned by Google?
`16 A. I wouldn't testify to that. It
`17 says what it says. Like I said, I am not
`18 an expert with Ngram and haven't used it
`19 much. I just have some familiarity with
`20 it.
`21 Q. Would you be surprised that the
`22 phrase "stream analysis module" does not
`23 appear in any books ever published up to
`24 2019?
`25 A. I wouldn't hazard an opinion as
`
`Page 11
`1 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Do you guys
`2 want me to take us off the record
`3 really quickly?
`4 A. There is only one or two things
`5 I can change. So if you will just bear
`6 with me for a second. I'll either get it
`7 fixed or say, let's just go on.
`8 MR. HANNEMANN: I am going to
`9 mark as Exhibit 5 an Ngram, Google
`10 Ngram screen output for the phrase
`11 "stream analysis module." And it
`12 should just take a second to stamp it
`13 up.
`14 So if you have the Exhibit
`15 Share, you should be able to see
`16 Exhibit 5. I will share my screen
`17 here if that's necessary for you to
`18 see it.
`19 (Exhibit 5, Google Ngram
`20 viewer-stream analysis module, was so
`21 marked for identification, as of this
`22 date.)
`23 (Exhibit 6, Google Ngram
`24 viewer-stream scanner module, was so
`25 marked for identification, as of this
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`Page 13
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`1 I sit here with regards to surprised or
`2 not.
`3 Q. Is the idea that that phrase
`4 has not appeared in any books in English
`5 up to 2019 inconsistent with your
`6 understanding of the world?
`7 A. I don't understand the
`8 question.
`9 Q. Well, if I said to you the
`10 phrase "stream analysis module" has never
`11 appeared in a book written in English up
`12 to 2019, would you say that sounds right
`13 or would you say that sounds wrong or
`14 would you say I have no idea?
`15 A. I have no idea.
`16 Q. Okay. And just for the record,
`17 we'll look at stream scanner module, too.
`18 But the result is going to be the same,
`19 and my assumption is going to be that
`20 your answers are going to be the same.
`21 But you can take a look at the Ngram,
`22 it's exactly the same for the stream
`23 scanner module.
`24 And do you have any reason to
`25 believe that stream scanner module ever
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`Case 6:20-cv-01131-ADA Document 57-2 Filed 09/20/21 Page 6 of 103
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`1 appeared in a book before these patents
`2 were written?
`3 A. I don't have an opinion with
`4 regards to any of these three terms,
`5 "stream scanner module," "broadcast
`6 scanning module" or the third one was
`7 "stream analysis module."
`8 I've looked at the three
`9 exhibits that you've put up and I see
`10 they provide, essentially, the same
`11 results from Google.
`12 Q. Okay. So that's Exhibits 1
`13 through 7.
`14 A. Could I make -- would you mind
`15 if I made one comment regarding counsel
`16 on the line. I just want to be clear
`17 about something.
`18 Q. Sure.
`19 A. I am working with Mr. Hudnell
`20 in a completely separate matter, only a
`21 little bit thus far. I didn't realize he
`22 was part of this and we have never met.
`23 I didn't realize he was part of this
`24 deposition. So I just wanted to be clear
`25 about that.
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`Page 14
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`1 of streams am I considering and what sort
`2 of analysis do I wish to do.
`3 Q. So you have to know what
`4 functions the stream analysis module is
`5 going to perform before you know what
`6 structure is, the module is?
`7 A. You're using legal terms. I
`8 wouldn't, I wouldn't phrase it that way.
`9 But, for example, the stream might be a
`10 stream coming off of a hard disk. It
`11 might be a stream coming over the
`12 Internet. It might be an AM/FM microwave
`13 stream. It might be a satellite stream.
`14 Obviously, all of those would
`15 result in totally different types of
`16 systems. But they are all streams. And
`17 having acquired a stream, then the
`18 question might be, well, what sort of
`19 analysis do I want to do. Do I want to
`20 do a frequency analysis. Do I want to do
`21 a word analysis. Maybe I'd analyze the
`22 stream and capture a set of English
`23 words. The thought of doing an analysis
`24 is certainly pretty broad, but well
`25 understood.
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`Page 17
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`Page 15
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`1 Q. So in 2008, where would you
`2 have gone to buy a stream analysis
`3 module?
`4 A. I haven't formed an opinion on
`5 that. I don't know.
`6 Q. Could you have gone anywhere
`7 and said, I would like to buy a stream
`8 analysis module and have somebody sell
`9 you something?
`10 A. Sure.
`11 Q. Okay. What's an example of a
`12 place you would have gone to buy a stream
`13 analysis module?
`14 A. I could have gone to almost any
`15 sort of sophisticated electronic shop and
`16 said, hey, I would like to buy a stream
`17 analysis module. And they would say,
`18 here is one. Or they would say, I don't
`19 know exactly what that is. And then they
`20 would ask me some further questions about
`21 what my needs were, and we would settle
`22 on a piece of equipment.
`23 Q. What would they hand you, if
`24 they were handing you one?
`25 A. Well, it depends on what sort
`
`1 And then a module, I would
`2 assume, is something that does that,
`3 typically something physical. So what
`4 kind of device would I be given? It
`5 would depend on what my specific needs
`6 were.
`7 Q. Did you just say that a module
`8 in this context would be something
`9 physical?
`10 A. I think I started to say that
`11 and I might have backed off. I think a
`12 module, typically, as used, generally
`13 applies to something physical. In this
`14 case, if the module needs to be
`15 interfaced to, needs to receive, needs to
`16 have the stream, the stream has to be
`17 somewhere. So I would think that any
`18 analysis needs to be done somewhere. So
`19 there certainly would be a physical
`20 aspect, it seems to me, in general, for a
`21 stream analysis module.
`22 Q. So if you went to buy a stream
`23 analysis module in 2008, someone might
`24 have given you a personal computer; is
`25 that right?
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`Case 6:20-cv-01131-ADA Document 57-2 Filed 09/20/21 Page 7 of 103
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`1 A. It depends on my needs. I
`2 really don't know.
`3 Q. Okay. Do you recall whether
`4 the '806 and '843 patents define the word
`5 "module"?
`6 A. I don't recall them defining
`7 the word "module." But I think the
`8 contents of those patents likely stand on
`9 their own. And if they do define
`10 "module," it's in there.
`11 Q. Well, wouldn't that affect your
`12 opinion about, that you gave in your
`13 report about what these terms mean?
`14 A. No, not necessarily.
`15 Q. So you gave an opinion on what
`16 broadcast scanning module, stream
`17 analysis module and stream scanning
`18 module mean, but you didn't apply the
`19 definition of the word "module" that's
`20 given in the patents?
`21 A. What is the definition of
`22 module that's given in the patents?
`23 Q. Well, for example, in Exhibit
`24 1, the '806 patent, column 7, line 54
`25 says "In general, the word 'module' as
`
`1 A. Let me go back exactly to that
`2 column. I'm sorry, can you give me that
`3 again?
`4 Q. Of course. It's Exhibit 1, the
`5 '806 patent -- which I think we also have
`6 the paper for you -- and it's column 7,
`7 line 54.
`8 A. No, I wouldn't say it's logic.
`9 I would say it's logic embodied in
`10 hardware and/or software and/or a
`11 collection of software, et cetera, as it
`12 continues.
`13 Q. So what is a stream analysis
`14 module? And I should say, of course, as
`15 that phrase is used in these patents.
`16 Let me take that back. Without
`17 any reference to the patent, what is a
`18 stream analysis module?
`19 A. Without any reference to the
`20 patent, I would say a stream analysis
`21 module is a module that analyzes a
`22 stream.
`23 Q. Okay. And what is a stream
`24 scanner module?
`25 A. I would say that, without any
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`Page 19
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`1 used herein refers to logic embodied in
`2 hardware and/or firmware and/or to a
`3 collection of software instructions."
`4 And it goes on saying it can be
`5 in Java or multimedia supplements, HTML,
`6 Cobol, SQL, a whole bunch of different
`7 software types. So that's the definition
`8 that the patents give.
`9 A. And you were asking me, I
`10 think, did I apply that definition; is
`11 that the question?
`12 Q. Yeah.
`13 A. Yes, I did. There was nothing
`14 particularly interesting about that
`15 definition in my experience. So I read
`16 that and I thought, yeah, that's a good
`17 definition of module, and then largely
`18 forgot it and haven't had to go back and
`19 revisit it for any particular reason.
`20 Q. Yeah, okay. So the definition
`21 of the word "module," your understanding
`22 of it for the purposes of these patents
`23 is logic; is that right?
`24 MR. LAMBERSON: Objection.
`25 Misstates the testimony.
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`Page 21
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`1 context referring to the patent, it is a
`2 module that scans a stream.
`3 Q. Last one, what's a broadcast
`4 scanning module?
`5 A. I would give a similar answer.
`6 I think it's a module that analyzes a
`7 broadcast -- I am sorry, could you repeat
`8 the question? Broadcast scanner module
`9 you said?
`10 Q. Correct.
`11 A. It's a module that scans a
`12 broadcast.
`13 Q. Okay. Now, let me ask the same
`14 questions with reference to the patent
`15 claims.
`16 In the patent claims you looked
`17 at, what is a stream analysis module?
`18 A. Give me a moment. I want to
`19 bring up the pdf, the local pdf version.
`20 I will download yours, it's probably
`21 easier.
`22 I don't recall voicing a
`23 definition for a stream analysis module.
`24 Largely, what I was asked to do was to
`25 respond to the defendants' arguments or
`6 (Pages 18 - 21)
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`Case 6:20-cv-01131-ADA Document 57-2 Filed 09/20/21 Page 8 of 103
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`Page 22
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`1 analyze them and respond to them. So I
`2 am looking through my declaration to see
`3 if I took a position regarding whether I
`4 stated what I thought the definition of a
`5 stream analysis module was. And I don't
`6 see that here. But if there is some
`7 location in my declaration that you would
`8 like to point me to to consider, I would
`9 be happy to do that.
`10 Q. No, I don't think it is in your
`11 declaration. That's why I was checking
`12 to see whether you had, whether you could
`13 tell me what a stream analysis module is
`14 in the context of these patents.
`15 A. In the context of these
`16 patents, I don't believe I've taken a
`17 position regarding its construction. I
`18 rebutted arguments about its construction
`19 that I was provided. And so I don't
`20 think it would be prudent for me to come
`21 up with a definition on the spot.
`22 Q. Okay. And is your answer on
`23 that point the same for stream scanner
`24 module and broadcast scanning module?
`25 A. That's my recollection.
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`Page 24
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`1 of or building a stream, this is in the
`2 context of the stream scanner module.
`3 So, yeah, a POSITA, given what I had
`4 previously stated, a POSITA would know
`5 how to implement a module that scans a
`6 stream, particularly in the context of
`7 the '806 patent, where certainly the
`8 ground covered involves broadcast streams
`9 of the type AM/FM, satellite, et cetera,
`10 and specific formats, quite a number of
`11 mentioned, like RDS, RDBS. There is
`12 nothing complicated, challenging. There
`13 is no need to innovate. The process of
`14 implementing this would be pretty --
`15 would be straightforward and well
`16 understood to a POSITA.
`17 Q. Does the patent describe
`18 software using hardware that scanned
`19 known broadcast sources; does it describe
`20 any software?
`21 A. Yes, it does.
`22 Q. Could you point me to what
`23 you're referring to?
`24 A. Sure. So as you pointed me to
`25 in column 7 it says, "In general, the
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`Page 23
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`1 Although, you know, if I did provide a
`2 construction that I'm not remembering as
`3 I sit here, obviously, it's in my
`4 declaration. But I believe that is an
`5 accurate characterization of my testimony
`6 in my declaration.
`7 Q. In paragraph 76 of your
`8 declaration, at the end there is a
`9 sentence that begins "Based on these
`10 disclosures."
`11 Do you mind finding that in
`12 your declaration or your report -- let's
`13 see what it's called?
`14 A. Yes, I see that.
`15 Q. So that sentence reads, "Based
`16 on these disclosures, a POSITA would have
`17 understood how to write software using
`18 hardware that scanned known broadcast
`19 sources AM/FM, et cetera, and extracted
`20 data using known formats, RDS, RDBS, et
`21 cetera".
`22 So what were you trying to
`23 convey with that sentence?
`24 A. That there was nothing
`25 mysterious about achieving the function
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`Page 25
`1 word 'module'" -- which is a component of
`2 the larger term we're discussing here --
`3 "as used herein refers to logic embodied
`4 in hardware and/or firmware and/or to a
`5 collection of software instructions,
`6 possibly having an entry and/or exit
`7 points written in programming languages
`8 such as, for example, Java and/or Java
`9 Programming, Java Platform-Micro
`10 Edition," and then it continues.
`11 So it's discussing using
`12 software running in hardware that
`13 implements logic for something. In this
`14 case, the something is scanning the
`15 stream scanner module.
`16 Q. By the way, your report
`17 referred to a police scanner, if I
`18 remember correctly?
`19 A. I believe so, yes.
`20 Q. And am I correct that what a
`21 police scanner does is repetitively check
`22 all available frequencies to look for a
`23 broadcast?
`24 A. That is typically -- in my
`25 experience, that's typically, yes, one
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`Case 6:20-cv-01131-ADA Document 57-2 Filed 09/20/21 Page 9 of 103
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`1 use, yes. One feature, rather.
`2 Q. What are the other features
`3 that are relevant to you in the context
`4 of your declaration?
`5 A. It would depend on the
`6 particular police scanner. But the
`7 aspect that's common to all of the ones
`8 that I am familiar with, that's relevant
`9 in my opinion to this context, involves
`10 scanning a range of frequencies and
`11 looking for activity, as you just
`12 discussed, mentioned.
`13 Q. That's not what the stream
`14 scanner module in the '806 patent does,
`15 correct?
`16 A. I haven't concluded whether or
`17 not a police scanner practices that
`18 stream scanner module or not. On the
`19 other hand, the question of what the,
`20 what the stream is in a particular
`21 context can have various answers.
`22 Imagine you have eight
`23 different police bands that are closely
`24 spaced, you could say that's eight
`25 different streams. Or you could just as
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`1 reasonably say it's one stream with eight
`2 different channels -- or however you
`3 wanted to characterize it in there -- in
`4 which case, the police scanner would be
`5 scanning a stream.
`6 Q. Well, what the stream scanner
`7 module is doing, when it says "stream
`8 scanner," that implies it's scanning a
`9 stream, correct?
`10 A. I would believe so, yeah.
`11 Q. And what it's doing in this
`12 patent is scanning a particular stream
`13 for some particular kinds of data, right?
`14 A. Sure.
`15 Q. And that's not what the scanner
`16 in the police scanner does, right?
`17 A. I think that's exactly what the
`18 scanner in the police scanner does.
`19 Q. Okay. What kind of data is the
`20 police scanner looking for?
`21 A. It's looking for data
`22 indicating activity on the channel. Now,
`23 depending on the, on the radio technology
`24 used by a particular police department,
`25 there can be a digital signal carrying
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`1 digital data, digital encoding of audio,
`2 for example. So there can be a clear
`3 analysis saying yes, there is digital
`4 data on this subband in the stream.
`5 Older technology would tend to
`6 just have AM modulation. In which case,
`7 the receiver would check to see whether
`8 there was some sort of, you know, whether
`9 the signal achieved a certain analysis
`10 above the background noise. And this is
`11 where if you think about all types of
`12 radios, there might be a squelch switch
`13 on.
`14 So it certainly is doing an
`15 analysis, because typically what happens
`16 is it will scan until it detects activity
`17 and then it stops. So it is a stream
`18 scanner module, at least as we've
`19 discussed so far, yeah.
`20 Like I said, I haven't thought
`21 about whether it fits into the broader
`22 picture of the entire claim. But based
`23 on our discussions so far, I don't see
`24 any reason why it doesn't.
`25 Q. Okay. Does the '806 or '843
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`1 patent contain any software instructions?
`2 A. I don't know, I haven't thought
`3 about that question. They certainly do
`4 contain algorithms. Now, to the extent
`5 that a person might say, well, an
`6 algorithm can be implemented in software.
`7 And you can think of software
`8 instructions -- you can think of a C
`9 program literally immediately comprising
`10 software instructions. Well, then, it
`11 would comprise instructions. I think,
`12 typically, I would think of -- I am used
`13 to thinking of instructions as being the
`14 compiled output of a C program, for
`15 example, or a Java program or any program
`16 written in some sort of high level
`17 language. I don't recall seeing anything
`18 of that sort in the written description.
`19 But, you know, if it's there, it's there.
`20 Q. How does the patent describe
`21 the structure of the stream analysis
`22 module?
`23 A. I think I would begin by
`24 pointing back to that passage that you
`25 pointed to me to to begin with where the
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`1 meaning of the term "module" is
`2 described. So the structure of the
`3 stream analysis module is, I would say,
`4 is presumed, given, you know, barring any
`5 other specific discussion for that
`6 particular module, to fit the module
`7 definition as defined which is logic in
`8 hardware and/or software, et cetera, et
`9 cetera, et cetera.
`10 Q. Where in the patent does it
`11 describe the logic for the stream
`12 analysis module?
`13 A. Well, it says that -- the claim
`14 says the output of the stream analysis
`15 module is identifying data. And then the
`16 specification says that identifying data
`17 can include data that identifies a song,
`18 title, artist, album, language or other
`19 information.
`20 So a POSITA would have
`21 understood that the logic of the stream
`22 analysis module could be transmitted in
`23 those known data formats, the RDS, RDBS,
`24 data radio channel, data audio broadcast,
`25 et cetera. So, yes, I guess I'll stay
`
`1 again about broadcast scanning module.
`2 How does the patent describe
`3 the structure of the broadcast scanning
`4 module?
`5 A. So my recollection is that in
`6 the '843 patent the phrases "stream
`7 scanner module," "broadcast scanning
`8 module" and "broadcast scanner module"
`9 are used generally interchangeably. So I
`10 would fall back on the discussion that we
`11 just had.
`12 Q. Okay. While we're on the '806
`13 patent, maybe you could take a look at
`14 the first step in Method Claim 14 and
`15 compare it to the first step in Method
`16 Claim 5. Just tell me when you've looked
`17 at those two.
`18 A. Okay. I reviewed them.
`19 Q. Claim 5 refers -- the step
`20 refers to a stream scanner module,
`21 correct?
`22 A. Yes.
`23 Q. And Claim 14 refers to a
`24 broadcast scanning module, correct?
`25 A. Correct.
`
`1 with that answer.
`2 Q. Where in the patent, the '806
`3 or '843 patent does, is the structure of
`4 the stream scanner module described?
`5 A. I would begin with the same
`6 place where the general meaning of the
`7 term "module" is defined in the '806.
`8 Q. Okay. And does the '806 patent
`9 describe the logic for the stream scanner
`10 module?
`11 A. Yeah, I believe it does.
`12 Q. Okay. Can you point me to what
`13 you're referring to, please?
`14 A. I will begin -- let me finish
`15 reviewing this. I should take a moment.
`16 I think the logic is provided
`17 directly in the claim language where it
`18 describes what the function of the --
`19 where it describes further the stream
`20 scanner module. This is a similar
`21 conclusion to what the patent examiner
`22 for the '888 patent commented on.
`23 Q. Okay. I want to talk with you
`24 about that a little bit. Let me ask,
`25 just for the record the same question
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`Page 31
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`Page 33
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`1 Q. Okay. Do you have an opinion
`2 about whether the broadcast scanning
`3 module in Claim 14 is the same as the
`4 stream scanner module at Claim 5?
`5 A. Yeah, I think we just discussed
`6 that. It's my recollection that the
`7 specifications use the term "broadcast
`8 scanning module" and "stream scanner
`9 module" interchangeably. Largely
`10 interchangeably.
`11 That doesn't mean that, you
`12 know, every use of either one of those
`13 modules is the same as every other use of
`14 either one of those modules. But I think
`15 the phrases and functionality are used
`16 interchangeably.
`17 Q. Okay. So it doesn't, it
`18 doesn't bother you that there are
`19 different words in Claim 14 and in Claim
`20 5? They really have the same meaning
`21 according to you; is that right?
`22 A. I think that stream scanner
`23 module and broadcast scanning module have
`24 the same meaning, yeah.
`25 Q. Okay.
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`1 A. But I will point out that there
`2 are, there are other words in that term,
`3 in that element.
`4 Q. Sure. Because in Claim 14 the
`5 broadcast scanning module is listening
`6 for a media segment. And in Claim 5 the
`7 stream scanner module is listening for an
`8 associated data stream. Is that what