Case 5:19-cv-00036-RWS Document 447-12 Filed 07/27/20 Page 1 of 18 PageID #: 25081
`Case 5:19-cv-00036—RWS Document 447-12 Filed 07/27/20 Page 1 of 18 PageID #: 25081
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`EXHIBIT 11
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`Case 5:19-cv-00036—RWS Document 447-12 Filed 07/27/20 Page 1 of 18 PageID #: 25081
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`EXHIBIT 11
`EXHIBIT 11
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`Case 5:19-cv-00036-RWS Document 447-12 Filed 07/27/20 Page 2 of 18 PageID #: 25082
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` IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
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` FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS
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` TEXARKANA DIVISION
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`- - - - - - - - - - - - -x
`
` MAXELL, LTD., :
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` Plaintiff, :
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` v. : No. 5:19-cv-00036-RWS
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` APPLE, INC., :
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` Defendant. :
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`- - - - - - - - - - - - -x
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` - - -
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` Thursday, June 18, 2020
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` - - -
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`REMOTE TELEPHONIC deposition of ROBERT L. STOLL,
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`beginning at 9:03 a.m., before Christina S. Hotsko,
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`RPR, CRR, when were present on behalf of the
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`respective parties:
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`Case 5:19-cv-00036-RWS Document 447-12 Filed 07/27/20 Page 3 of 18 PageID #: 25083
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` A P P E A R A N C E S
`O n b e h a l f o f P l a i n t i f f :
` B R Y A N C . N E S E , E S Q U I R E
` M a y e r B r o w n , L L P
` 1 9 9 9 K S t r e e t , N o r t h w e s t
` W a s h i n g t o n , D . C . 2 0 0 0 6
` ( 2 0 2 ) 2 6 3 - 3 2 6 6
` b n e s e @ m a y e r b r o w n . c o m
` L U I Z M I R A N D A , E S Q U I R E
` M a y e r B r o w n , L L P
` 7 1 S W a c k e r D r i v e
` C h i c a g o , I l l i n o i s 6 0 6 0 6
` ( 3 1 2 ) 7 0 1 - 8 8 7 3
` l m i r a n d a @ m a y e r b r o w n . c o m
`
`O n b e h a l f o f D e f e n d a n t :
` D A V I D A L M E L I N G , E S Q U I R E
` O ' M e l v e n y & M y e r s , L L P
` T w o E m b a r c a d e r o C e n t e r , 2 8 t h F l o o r
` S a n F r a n c i s c o , C a l i f o r n i a 9 4 1 1 1 - 3 8 2 3
` ( 4 1 5 ) 9 8 4 - 8 9 5 9
` d a l m e l i n g @ o m m . c o m
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`Case 5:19-cv-00036-RWS Document 447-12 Filed 07/27/20 Page 4 of 18 PageID #: 25084
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` C O N T E N T S
`EXAMINATION BY: PAGE
` Counsel for Defendant 06
` Counsel for Plaintiff 229
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`STOLL DEPOSITION EXHIBITS: * PAGE
` Exhibit 235 Expert Report of Robert L. Stoll 37
` Exhibit 236 Article, On the Way to a Better 87
` Patent System
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` Exhibit 237 USPTO and Federal District 94
` Courts, A Joint Conference
` between the USPTO and the
` Berkeley Center for Law &
` Technology, 6 June 2011
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` Exhibit 238 Article, Patently Practical 96
` Advice: The Impact of Recent
` Supreme Court and Federal
` Circuit Cases on Patent Law and
` How They Affect the Advice We
` Give Our Clients
` Exhibit 239 NavTalk Owner's Manual and 126
` Reference Guide
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` Exhibit 240 Declaration of David Ayres 137
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` Exhibit 241 Excel Spreadsheet, Garmin 147 149
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` Exhibit 242 Deposition of L. Kent Broddle 156
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` Exhibit 243 Service Manual, MVC-FD83/FD88 175
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` Exhibit 244 Image, Sony Digital Still Camera 190
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`Case 5:19-cv-00036-RWS Document 447-12 Filed 07/27/20 Page 5 of 18 PageID #: 25085
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`STOLL DEPOSITION EXHIBITS: * PAGE
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` Exhibit 245 MVC-FD88 Camera 192
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` Exhibit 246 Article, Keeping Track of Your 201
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` Magazine Subscriptions
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` Exhibit 247 Article, Premature Magazine 203
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` Renewal Notices"
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` Exhibit 248 Opening Report of Dr. Alan Bovik 207
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` Exhibit 249 Opinion from Eastern District of 215
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` Texas, Genband US LLC v.
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` Metaswitch Networks Corp.,
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` 7 Jan 2016
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` Exhibit 250 Decision from Western District 220
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` of Michigan, Magna Electronics,
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` Inc., v. TRW Automotive Holdings
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` Corp., 29 Jan 2016
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` * (Exhibits attached to transcript.)
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`Case 5:19-cv-00036-RWS Document 447-12 Filed 07/27/20 Page 6 of 18 PageID #: 25086
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` P R O C E E D I N G S
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`Whereupon,
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` ROBERT L. STOLL,
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`being first duly sworn or affirmed to testify to
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`the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the 08:13:20
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`truth, was examined and testified as follows:
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` MR. ALMELING: Perhaps we can begin with
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`appearances. This is David Almeling of
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`O'Melveny & Myers representing the defendant.
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` MR. NESE: This is Bryan Nese with Mayer 09:03:43
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`Brown, LLP, representing Maxell Limited and the
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`witness. I'm joined today by my colleague from
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`Mayer Brown, Luiz Miranda.
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` MR. ALMELING: Counsel, there are various
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`agreements the parties have reached before the 09:04:08
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`deposition regarding the conduct of the
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`deposition. I'll discuss those in questioning.
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`But before we begin, is there anything that you
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`would like to put on the record?
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` MR. NESE: Not at this time. 09:04:14
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`Case 5:19-cv-00036-RWS Document 447-12 Filed 07/27/20 Page 7 of 18 PageID #: 25087
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` EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR DEFENDANT
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`BY MR. ALMELING:
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` Q. Mr. Stoll, please state your full name.
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` A. Robert Louis Stoll.
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` Q. Please state your work address. 09:04:25
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` A. 1500 K Street, Northwest, Washington,
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`D.C., 20005.
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` Q. Please state your home address.
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` A. 2153 California Street, number 504,
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`Washington, D.C., 20008. 09:04:47
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` Q. You understand that you are oath today,
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`correct?
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` A. Correct.
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` Q. Is there any reason that you cannot give
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`truthful and accurate testimony today? 09:05:04
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` A. None of which I'm aware.
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` Q. You received a link to a file containing
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`exhibits for this deposition yesterday evening,
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`correct?
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` A. That is correct. 09:05:19
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` Q. After receiving that link, have you
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`conferred with either Maxell or Maxell's counsel
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`Case 5:19-cv-00036-RWS Document 447-12 Filed 07/27/20 Page 8 of 18 PageID #: 25088
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`regarding the exhibits other than for the sole
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`purpose of confirming that you received them?
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` A. No.
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` Q. After receiving that link, did you review
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`any of the exhibits before this deposition began? 09:05:39
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` A. I opened my report just to make sure that
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`they opened.
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` Q. You understand that, while testifying
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`today but not including breaks, you may not
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`access, look at, or use any information or 09:05:58
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`materials other than the exhibits in the link, a
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`clean hard copy of your report, and the patents
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`and the prior art references about which you
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`opine.
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` Do you understand that? 09:06:12
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` A. I didn't know that I could look at the
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`references, too, if they weren't available, but I
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`do now.
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` Q. Do you understand that in addition to
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`what I just previously stated, while testifying 09:06:26
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`today -- and again, not including breaks -- you
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`may not communicate with anyone else including
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`Case 5:19-cv-00036-RWS Document 447-12 Filed 07/27/20 Page 9 of 18 PageID #: 25089
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`to be an expert?
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` A. Field of process before the Patent and
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`Trademark Office, for example, public
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`accessibility and prior art. And that's probably
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`the field that I'm most engaged for. 09:19:10
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` Inequitable conduct issues. Prosecution
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`laches issues.
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` Q. Other than the items that you just
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`mentioned, do you believe that you're an expert in
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`any subject? 09:19:28
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` A. I mean, I have a background, a degree, in
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`chemical engineering, but I would not be able to
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`generally say I'm an expert in every field of
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`chemical engineering.
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` Q. Do you believe you're an expert in any 09:19:45
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`field of chemical engineering?
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` A. Not at this late date.
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` Q. So to be clear, the only fields in which
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`you consider yourself to be an expert are the
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`process before the PTO and the subprocesses to 09:19:59
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`that you answered in response to my previous
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`question; is that correct?
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`Case 5:19-cv-00036-RWS Document 447-12 Filed 07/27/20 Page 10 of 18 PageID #: 25090
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` A. That's where I'm an expert. Yes.
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` Q. You are not an expert in any of the
`Q. You are not an expert in any of the
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`technologies claimed in any of the asserted
`technologies claimed in any of the asserted
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`patents, correct?
`patents, correct?
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` A. That is correct. 09:20:19
`A. That is correct.
`09:20:19
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` Q. You are not a POSITA in any of the
`Q. You are not a POSITA in any of the
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`technologies claimed in any of the asserted
`technologies claimed in any of the asserted
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`patents, correct?
`patents, correct?
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` A. I am not a person having ordinary skill
`A. I am not a person having ordinary skill
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`in the art of this technology. 09:20:33
`in the art of this technology.
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` Q. You are not an expert in power management
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`or power control in wireless communication
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`systems, correct?
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` A. That is correct.
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` Q. You are not an expert in communication 09:20:47
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`systems, GPS systems, or wireless communications,
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`including signal processing and wireless
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`communication in mobile device, correct?
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` MR. NESE: Objection to form.
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`BY MR. ALMELING: 09:21:10
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` Q. Mr. Stoll, you can go ahead and answer.
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` A. I said "correct."
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`Case 5:19-cv-00036-RWS Document 447-12 Filed 07/27/20 Page 11 of 18 PageID #: 25091
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` Q. I believe your counsel objected because I
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`gave a serial list. I did so in the interest of
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`time; however, I will break it out so that it does
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`not elicit an objection.
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` MR. ALMELING: Counsel, I'm going to give 09:21:23
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`a couple of other laundry lists in the interest of
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`time. If you want to object, I will break them
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`out, but it will be your choice.
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`BY MR. ALMELING:
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` Q. Mr. Stoll, you are not an expert in 09:21:33
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`communications systems, correct?
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` A. That is correct.
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` Q. You are not an expert in GPS systems,
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`correct?
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` A. That is correct. 09:21:42
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` Q. You are not an expert in wireless
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`communications, correct?
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` A. That is correct.
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` Q. You are not an expert in signal
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`processing for wireless communications in mobile 09:21:53
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`devices, correct?
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` A. Yes.
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`Case 5:19-cv-00036-RWS Document 447-12 Filed 07/27/20 Page 12 of 18 PageID #: 25092
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` Q. And by "yes," you mean correct?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. You are not an expert in video
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`processing, image processing, or audio signal
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`processing, correct? 09:22:12
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. You are not an expert in any aspect of
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`electronic cameras or devices that function as
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`electronic cameras, correct?
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` A. Yes. 09:22:23
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` Q. You are not an expert in library science
`Q. You are not an expert in library science
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`or information science, including materials
`or information science, including materials
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`acquisitions for libraries, library records, or
`acquisitions for libraries, library records, or
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`library cataloging, correct?
`library cataloging, correct?
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` A. Yes. 09:22:36
`A. Yes.
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` Q. You are not an expert in economics,
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`marketing, or financial records, correct?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. You are not an expert in electronics
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`design, manufacturing, label, or packaging, 09:22:47
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`including hardware and software, correct?
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` A. Yes.
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`Case 5:19-cv-00036-RWS Document 447-12 Filed 07/27/20 Page 13 of 18 PageID #: 25093
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` Q. You are not an expert in analyzing sales
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`data for electronic records, correct?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. You are not an expert in corporate
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`structure or organization, correct? 09:23:03
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. In your career, approximately how many
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`cases have you been retained as an expert witness?
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`And I understand that this is in your CV, so I'm
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`not looking for an exact number. I'm just looking 09:23:24
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`for a ballpark.
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` A. Around 30.
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` Q. In those approximately 30 cases, in how
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`many of them have you testified at trial?
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` A. Under five. I'm not sure how many, but 09:23:38
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`that's also on my CV.
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` Q. In those approximately 30 cases, in
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`approximately how many have you been retained as
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`an expert on PTO practice and procedure issues?
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` A. Most of them. 09:23:52
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` Q. Do you recall testifying on any topic in
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`the approximately 30 cases in which you have
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`Case 5:19-cv-00036-RWS Document 447-12 Filed 07/27/20 Page 14 of 18 PageID #: 25094
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`your work in the role of commissioner as being too
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`favorable to patent owners?
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` A. No.
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` Q. Do you think that that criticism is
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`accurate? 09:32:21
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` A. I don't know that that criticism exists.
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`And I think I was pretty wildly lauded as being a
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`very good commissioner for patents.
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` Q. If there was -- and I recognize that you
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`testified that you did not hear it -- but assume 09:32:44
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`for the following questions that you were
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`criticized by at least some for being too
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`favorable to patent owners during your tenure as
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`commissioner.
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` Do you believe that criticism could be 09:32:57
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`accurate?
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` A. I don't even know what that means.
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` Q. In your entire career, you have never
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`been an employee in any capacity at any company,
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`correct? 09:33:13
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` A. No, I have not been an employee at any
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`particular company.
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`Case 5:19-cv-00036-RWS Document 447-12 Filed 07/27/20 Page 15 of 18 PageID #: 25095
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` Q. You have never worked at either Sony or
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`Garmin, correct?
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` A. No.
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` Q. You have not obtained a master's degree
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`in library science from any credited university, 09:33:30
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`correct?
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` A. I have not obtained a master's degree in
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`library science from any credited or uncredited
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`university.
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` Q. You have never served as a publicly 09:33:40
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`elected library board director, correct?
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` A. Correct.
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` Q. You do not have experience working as a
`Q. You do not have experience working as a
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`librarian, library cataloger, professional
`librarian, library cataloger, professional
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`archivist, or library director, correct? 09:33:55
`archivist, or library director, correct?
`09:33:55
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` A. That is correct.
`A. That is correct.
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` Q. You do not know what qualifications are
`Q. You do not know what qualifications are
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`required to become a certified librarian in any
`required to become a certified librarian in any
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`state, correct?
`state, correct?
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` A. Correct. 09:34:13
`A. Correct.
`09:34:13
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`Q. You have not studied library or
` Q. You have not studied library or
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`information science in any formal university
`information science in any formal university
`
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`Case 5:19-cv-00036-RWS Document 447-12 Filed 07/27/20 Page 16 of 18 PageID #: 25096
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`study, correct?study, correct?
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` A. That's correct.
`A. That's correct.
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` Q. You have no personal experience of
`Q. You have no personal experience of
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`writing or contributing to library policy
`writing or contributing to library policy
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`documents that dictate circulation and public 09:34:26
`documents that dictate circulation and public
`09:34:26
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`access rules, correct?
`access rules, correct?
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` A. I believe that's correct.
`A. I believe that's correct.
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` Q. You are not familiar with the creation or
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`syntax of MARC-21 records, correct?
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` A. That is correct. 09:34:44
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` Q. You have no familiarity, or even
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`awareness, of cataloging standards such as
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`MARC-21, AARC-2, or RDA, correct?
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` A. That is correct.
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` Q. You have no familiarity or even awareness 09:35:04
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`of the difference between public catalog records,
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`MARC-21 records, and item-level records, correct?
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` A. That is correct.
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` Q. You've never worked at an accounting
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`firm, correct? 09:35:22
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` A. That is correct.
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` Q. You have never worked at the University
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`Case 5:19-cv-00036-RWS Document 447-12 Filed 07/27/20 Page 17 of 18 PageID #: 25097
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`of Pittsburgh, Carnegie Mellon University, Georgia
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`Tech, or any other university, correct?
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` A. That's correct.
`
` Q. As part of your work on this case, you
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`have not talked with or otherwise communicated 09:35:46
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`with any of inventors on any of the asserted
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`patents, correct?
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` A. Not that I'm aware of.
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` Q. As part of your work on this case, you
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`have not talked with or otherwise communicated 09:35:57
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`with anyone at Maxell, correct?
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` A. Not that I am aware of.
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` Q. As part of your work on this case, you
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`have not talked with or otherwise communicated
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`with anyone at Sony or Garmin, correct? 09:36:06
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` A. Not that I am aware of.
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` Q. As part of your work on this case, you
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`have not talked with or otherwise communicated
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`with anyone at the University of Pittsburgh,
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`Carnegie Mellon University, or Georgia Tech, 09:36:21
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`correct?
`
` A. Not that I'm aware of.
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`Case 5:19-cv-00036-RWS Document 447-12 Filed 07/27/20 Page 18 of 18 PageID #: 25098
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` DECLARATION
`
` I hereby declare I am the deponent in the within
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` matter; that I have read the foregoing transcript and
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` know the contents thereof; and I declare that the same
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` is true of my knowledge except as to the matters which
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` are therein stated upon my information or belief, and as
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` to those matters, I believe them to be true.
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` I declare under the penalties of perjury
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` under the laws of the United States that the
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` foregoing is true and correct.
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` This declaration is executed this _______ day
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` of _______________________, 20___, at
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` ________________________________, _____________.
`
` _________________________________
`
` ROBERT L. STOLL
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