Case 5:19-cv-00036-RWS Document 447-10 Filed 07/27/20 Page 1 of 53 PageID #: 24997
`Case 5:19-cv-00036—RWS Document 447-10 Filed 07/27/20 Page 1 of 53 PageID #: 24997
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`EXHIBIT 9
`EXHIBIT 9
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`

`

`Case 5:19-cv-00036-RWS Document 447-10 Filed 07/27/20 Page 2 of 53 PageID #: 24998
`
`Transcript of the Testimony of Paradiso,
`Joseph A.
`Date: June 16, 2020
`
`Case: 0027559-00428 - [Apple] Maxell_Depo
`
`THIS DOCUMENT CONTAINS CONFIDENTIAL
`INFORMATION
`ATTORNEYS' EYES ONLY
`
`Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.
`Phone: 202-347-3700
`Fax: 202-737-3638
`Email: info@acefederal.com
`Internet: www.acefederal.com
`
`

`

`Case 5:19-cv-00036-RWS Document 447-10 Filed 07/27/20 Page 3 of 53 PageID #: 24999
`
`Page 2
` Deposition of JOSEPH A. PARADISO, called
`for examination pursuant to notice of
`deposition, on Tuesday, June 16, 2020, at 11:05
`a.m., before CARMEN SMITH, a Notary Public
`within and for the District of Columbia, when
`were present on behalf of the respective
`parties:
`
` SAQIB J. SIDDIQUI, ESQ.
` Mayer Brown LLP
` 1999 K Street, NW
` Washington, DC 20006
` 202-263-3000
` ssiddiqui@mayerbrown.com
` On behalf of Plaintiff Maxell
`
` MARK LIANG, ESQ.
` O'Melveny & Myers LLP
` Two Embarcadero, 28th Floor
` San Francisco, California 94111
` 415-984-8882
` mliang@omm.com
` On behalf of Defendant Apple
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`
`89
`
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`Page 1
` IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
` FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS
` TEXARKANA DIVISION
`
`- - - - - - - - - - - - -x
`MAXELL, LTD., :
` Plaintiff, : Civil Action Number
` vs. : 5:19-civ-00036
`APPLE INC., :
` Defendant. :
`- - - - - - - - - - - - -x
`
` CONFIDENTIAL
` ATTORNEYS' EYES ONLY
`
` DEPOSITION OF JOSEPH A. PARADISO
`
` Telephonic Deposition
` Tuesday, June 16, 2020
`
`REPORTED BY:
` CARMEN SMITH
`
`Page 3
`
`Page 4
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` P R O C E E D I N G S
`Whereupon,
` JOSEPH A. PARADISO
`was called as a witness and, having first been
`duly sworn, was examined and testified as
`follows:
` EXAMINATION
` BY MR. SIDDIQUI:
` Q Good morning, Dr. Paradiso. How are
`you doing today? 11:05:46
` A I'm doing well. How are you doing?
` Q Good, good, good. Can you please
`just state your full name for the record.
` A My name is Joseph A. Paradiso.
` Q And can you provide your office 11:05:58
`address, please.
` A My home office or my office at MIT?
` Q Home office works.
` A Okay. That's 77 Shepherd Road in
`Medford, Massachusetts. That's where I am now. 11:06:18
` Q Perfect. I believe we have met
`before in person for a deposition, so I'm sure
`you -- you're aware of the basic rules for
`depositions. We're doing it a little bit
`differently this time, over the phone. But 11:06:35
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`just wanted to -- so that's why it's even more
`important that can you please speak audibly for
`the court reporter and enunciation is really
`important, and try to keep that in mind that
`she's -- you know, these are technical terms, 11:06:53
`so try to like -- I'm sure she will slow you
`down, but like -- and slow me down, but just
`keep that in mind, please, as a courtesy, that
`would be great.
` If you don't understand a question or 11:07:04
`if I'm not clear, please let me know. You
`know, it could be that I just -- connection
`dropped or something like that. So just let's
`keep all that in mind.
` I'll do the best not to interrupt you 11:07:17
`and it would be good if you do the same, and
`let's try not to speak over each other, also
`giving your counsel time to object.
` Is there any reason you cannot
`testify truthfully today? 11:07:33
` A No, there's no reason.
` Q Since your last deposition for this
`case, have you been deposed again?
` A No.
` Q Okay. I'd like to -- oh, one -- 11:07:49
`
`1 (Pages 1 to 4)
`
`

`

`Case 5:19-cv-00036-RWS Document 447-10 Filed 07/27/20 Page 4 of 53 PageID #: 25000
`
`Page 5
`
`Page 6
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`sorry, before we get started, the parties had
`some agreement with respect to these remote
`depositions we're conducting as part of that.
`Were you able to receive files, a collection of
`exhibits yesterday? 11:08:12
` A Yes, there's a folder on my desktop
`waiting, so it's there.
` Q Perfect. Were you able to download
`everything correctly?
` A It seems. We will find out, but the 11:08:20
`download went smoothly.
` Q Okay. Perfect. And I take it from
`your answers that you didn't take a look at the
`exhibits, so that's part of the parties'
`agreement. I appreciate that, thank you so 11:08:35
`much.
` A I did not. Thank you.
` Q Can you -- in the list of exhibits,
`can you please turn to, there's a document
`dated 20-25-07 Paradiso RPT, Exhibit A- -- 11:08:48
` A That's my invalidity report; correct?
` Q No, I'm going to a portion of that,
`which is the CV that was -- the CV to your
`report.
` A Yes, I do -- that was sent to us also 11:09:13
`
`Page 7
`didn't add some of my newer committees. I went
`through much more carefully a couple months
`ago, a month ago, and fleshed that out. Of
`course, we've published more papers, we have
`more patents allowed. So there's always more 11:10:32
`to add in the CV. And I still have to add info
`on the students that have graduated with me,
`students I've read on different thesis. There
`are many of those that will take some time.
` But in terms of publications, in 11:10:47
`terms of talks, in terms of, you know, patents,
`committees, it's more or less up-to-date.
`There's always more, but it's -- it's a decent
`snapshot.
` Q Sounds good. Did you do anything to 11:11:00
`prepare for today's deposition?
` A Oh, I reviewed the material.
` Q Did you meet with anybody in person?
` A No.
` MR. LIANG: I'll just step in here 11:11:16
`and just caution the witness not to disclose
`any privileged communications with counsel.
`But otherwise, you can discuss just generally
`who you met with, how long and other facts.
` THE WITNESS: Sure. I met with 11:11:30
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`on paper, and I always prefer paper because I
`hate looking at things. I believe your witness
`did the same. So I have it here. It's much
`easier for me to flip through, so if that
`works, that's fine. So I have an Exhibit A 11:09:26
`open.
` Q Yeah, that's not a problem. I assume
`you don't have any annotations or anything like
`that?
` A No, there's nothing like that. I 11:09:36
`think the vanilla stuff that the attorneys gave
`me is here with no modification.
` Q Sure. I think -- so do you have in
`front of you Exhibit A of your report, which is
`your CV? 11:09:50
` A Yes, I do.
` Q Is this the most recent and complete
`version of your CV?
` A This is the most recent one that I've
`completed. 11:09:59
` Q Okay. Have there been -- have there
`been any changes to your CV since we last spoke
`for claim construction deposition?
` A Oh, the CV that I gave you at that
`time had very coarse additions for papers. I 11:10:14
`
`Page 8
`
`nobody in person.
` BY MR. SIDDIQUI:
` Q Okay. Did you speak with anybody
`over the phone or --
` A Yes. 11:11:37
` Q -- or via video conference?
` A Yes, few of us are meeting in person
`now. But I spoke with some of the attorneys
`from OMM the last few days.
` Q When you say "last few days," can you 11:11:53
`tell me roughly how many -- which days you're
`talking about?
` A Oh, a couple of days, maybe Friday,
`maybe Sunday.
` Q You're not sure? 11:12:12
` A Friday and Sunday, yes. Friday and
`Sunday I did speak with attorneys.
` Q Okay. And who did you speak with, do
`you recall?
` A I spoke with the attorneys that are 11:12:24
`on the call now, Mark Liang and Luann Simmons.
` Q Did you speak with anybody else?
` A Those are the attorneys that I --
`that I spoke with.
` Q Sure. Did you speak with anybody 11:12:37
`
`2 (Pages 5 to 8)
`
`

`

`Case 5:19-cv-00036-RWS Document 447-10 Filed 07/27/20 Page 5 of 53 PageID #: 25001
`
`Page 9
`
`Page 10
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`from Apple?
` A No, I didn't.
` Q Did you speak with Dr. Kotzin, who is
`Apple's expert for the IPR of these patents?
` A I have never spoken with him. 11:12:51
` Q Okay. Did you review any of
`Dr. Rosenberg's expert reports as part of your
`preparation?
` A I reviewed his expert reports, not as
`part of my preparation necessarily. I have 11:13:07
`reviewed his rebuttal report as well, and I
`don't know if I'd say that was for my
`preparation either.
` Q Okay. Did you review the declaration
`of Dr. Kotzin that he submitted to the PTAB 11:13:22
`with respect to these patents?
` A I have looked at it, but I have not
`closely reviewed it, as I don't really use it
`very much in my opinions. I don't really use
`it at all, I don't think. 11:13:35
` Q And did you -- did you review
`Dr. Kotzin's declaration submitted in the PTAB
`prior to submitting your validity report in
`this case?
` A I flipped through, but I haven't 11:13:45
`
`Page 11
`
` A Yes, I recognize my rebuttal report
`to the infringement.
` Q Did you write this document?
` A Yes, I did.
` MR. LIANG: Objection, form. 11:15:12
`Objection; calls for privileged information and
`we object, under the discovery order.
` BY MR. SIDDIQUI:
` Q Who helped you prepared this
`document, Dr. Paradiso? 11:15:20
` MR. LIANG: Objection. Objection;
`calls for privileged information under the
`discovery order.
` THE WITNESS: This document contains
`all of my opinions, and I own this document. 11:15:28
`This is my document.
` BY MR. SIDDIQUI:
` Q How long did you spend preparing this
`document?
` A Oh, this document, I did this 11:15:37
`document over several weeks.
` Q Do you have a rough estimate of how
`much time you spent on drafting this report?
` A Oh, many tens of hours. I don't
`remember exactly how many. 11:15:54
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`looked at it.
` Q Can we go to -- I believe we're going
`to turn to your noninfringement rebuttal
`report, please.
` A Sure. 11:14:04
` Q It's in the folder, but if you'd
`prefer to refer to it in paper, that's
`completely fine.
` A Yeah. I have that here.
` Q Let me know when you're ready. 11:14:12
` A I have it here.
` MR. SIDDIQUI: Okay. Perfect.
` So for, I think just to clarify, for
`the record, I would like to mark Dr. Paradiso's
`CV as Paradiso Exhibit 1. 11:14:24
` (Paradiso Exhibit 1 identified.)
` MR. SIDDIQUI: And I would like to
`mark Dr. Paradiso's "REBUTTAL EXPERT REPORT
`REGARDING NON-INFRINGEMENT OF U.S. PATENT
`NUMBERS 6,748,317, 6,580,999, 6,430,498" as 11:14:40
`Paradiso Exhibit 2.
` (Paradiso Exhibit 2 identified.)
` BY MR. SIDDIQUI:
` Q Dr. Paradiso, do you recognize
`Paradiso Exhibit 2? 11:14:59
`
`Page 12
`
` Q And what's your current billing rate?
` A $600 an hour.
` Q And when you say "many tens of
`hours," do you include the time you spent
`reviewing Dr. Rosenberg's infringement report 11:16:09
`in that time, or are you just talking about the
`time you spent on actually writing the rebuttal
`report?
` A That's the time I spent developing
`the arguments in this report and putting it 11:16:19
`together, yes. Rosenberg's infringement
`report, that was a while back when it was
`served, but yeah, that would be -- that would
`be included in those.
` Q Did you -- did you study everything 11:16:39
`in Dr. Rosenberg's report prior to drafting
`your rebuttal report?
` A I went through it. I went through
`it.
` Q Did you feel like you had enough 11:16:50
`time --
` MR. LIANG: If we could pause, you're
`not putting my objections in. Objection to the
`last two questions. And also, just -- we'll
`just try to pause before answering, maybe that 11:17:09
`
`3 (Pages 9 to 12)
`
`

`

`Case 5:19-cv-00036-RWS Document 447-10 Filed 07/27/20 Page 6 of 53 PageID #: 25002
`
`Page 13
`
`will help.
` Okay. Go ahead.
` BY MR. SIDDIQUI:
` Q Did you study everything cited in
`Dr. Rosenberg's report prior to drafting your 11:17:25
`rebuttal report?
` A What does that mean?
` MR. LIANG: Objection.
` BY MR. SIDDIQUI:
` Q Did you study everything cited in 11:17:37
`Dr. Rosenberg's report prior to drafting your
`rebuttal report?
` A I looked at the entire report.
` MR. LIANG: Objection; form.
`Objection; form. 11:17:55
` BY MR. SIDDIQUI:
` Q Dr. Paradiso, there's a question
`pending.
` A Can you repeat the question?
` Q Sure. Did you study everything cited 11:18:12
`in Dr. Rosenberg's report prior to drafting
`your rebuttal report?
` A Everything that I talk about in my
`rebuttal report that refers to Professor
`Rosenberg I did study. 11:18:23
`
`Page 15
`
` Q Sure, no problem.
` When would you say you started
`drafting your rebuttal report and stopped
`reviewing all the materials and had formed
`opinions on noninfringement? 11:19:50
` MR. LIANG: Objection; form.
` And I'm going to caution the witness,
`arguably calls for privileged information.
` THE WITNESS: And I really can't
`answer that because it's just very hard to 11:20:00
`remember.
` BY MR. SIDDIQUI:
` Q Okay. Can you please turn to
`paragraph 49 of your report.
` A Sure. Yes. 11:20:09
` Q Is it correct that this paragraph
`explains that you reviewed source code as part
`of your drafting your rebuttal report?
` A Yes, I did.
` Q And is it correct that you reviewed 11:20:36
`source code from May 23rd to May 27th?
` A Yes, that's correct.
` Q Did you review the source code in a
`facility, or were you able to review it at your
`home? 11:20:52
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`Page 14
`
` Q So if it's not in your rebuttal
`report, that means you didn't study it?
` A Not necessarily, no.
` MR. LIANG: Objection.
` Not trying to coach the witness, but 11:18:40
`Joe, if you could just pause after the
`question, I think that will just help the court
`reporter.
` THE WITNESS: Of course. Sorry.
` BY MR. SIDDIQUI: 11:18:52
` Q So, for example, did you look at all
`the schematics and all the technical
`specifications and data sheets for all the
`accused products that are cited in
`Dr. Rosenberg's report? 11:19:08
` MR. LIANG: Objection; form.
` THE WITNESS: In my report, I discuss
`what I looked at in Rosenberg's report.
` BY MR. SIDDIQUI:
` Q Sure. Would you like me to call you 11:19:21
`Paradiso? Because you keep referring to
`Dr. Rosenberg as Rosenberg.
` A Oh, sorry. You tend to think of the
`report as the adjective. But yes,
`Dr. Rosenberg's report. 11:19:34
`
`Page 16
`
` A Unfortunately, I was not able to --
`I'm sorry. I was not able to go to -- I was
`not able to go to a facility because we are on
`lockdown. That was the original plan. So I
`did review it at my home. 11:21:07
` MR. LIANG: There was an objection
`made. I'll just caution everybody to just
`pause again between statements, it will be
`easier to put in an objection.
` BY MR. SIDDIQUI: 11:21:25
` Q Yeah, I mean, Dr. Paradiso, I'm
`asking the questions, so that refers to you.
`So I have no objection to you pausing once I
`ask a question so your counsel has time to
`object. 11:21:40
` A Yes.
` Q So when -- when were you first
`retained in this case, do you recall?
` A I was retained in the fall. It was
`some months, I believe, before you and I met 11:22:00
`when I filed the original declaration.
` Q And so was there any particular
`reason you decided not to review source code
`from fall all the way up to May 23rd?
` MR. LIANG: Objection to form, also 11:22:17
`
`4 (Pages 13 to 16)
`
`

`

`Case 5:19-cv-00036-RWS Document 447-10 Filed 07/27/20 Page 7 of 53 PageID #: 25003
`
`Page 17
`
`Page 18
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`calls for privileged information.
` BY MR. SIDDIQUI:
` Q Dr. Paradiso, you did not want to
`review the source code prior to May 23rd?
` MR. LIANG: Objection to form, calls 11:22:39
`for privileged information.
` THE WITNESS: Yeah, this refers to
`discussions with counsel.
` BY MR. SIDDIQUI:
` Q So at no point did you decide that it 11:22:48
`would be important for you to know how the
`accused products work and for you to look at
`the source code prior to May 23rd?
` MR. LIANG: Objection; form and calls
`for privileged information. 11:23:01
` THE WITNESS: This refers to
`discussions with counsel.
` BY MR. SIDDIQUI:
` Q So when you were reviewing the source
`code in your home from May 23rd to 27th, did 11:23:14
`you have a Webcam activated where counsel was
`able to watch you while you were reviewing
`code?
` MR. LIANG: Objection.
` THE WITNESS: I did not. 11:23:26
`
`Page 19
` THE WITNESS: Oh, I don't -- Mark, go
`ahead.
` MR. LIANG: Just objection to form.
` THE WITNESS: Oh, I don't remember.
` BY MR. SIDDIQUI: 11:25:00
` Q Do you know that there are multiple
`files in each source code directory?
` A Yes, there are.
` Q And you think you had sufficient time
`to go through each of the 90 directories in 11:25:10
`those four days?
` A The files that I went through, the
`directories that I went through, are in tables
`in my report.
` Q So you didn't look through all of the 11:25:25
`source code files, just some source code files
`in these directories?
` MR. LIANG: Objection; form.
` THE WITNESS: I looked through the
`source code directories that I talk about in 11:25:33
`the tables in my report that I present.
` BY MR. SIDDIQUI:
` Q So I think we're mixing up
`directories and source code files. Did you
`look at all the source code files within these 11:25:45
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` BY MR. SIDDIQUI:
` Q And on May 23rd to 27th, roughly how
`much time did you spend reviewing source code?
` A Oh, I spent, again, some tens of
`hours, maybe 20, 30 hours. I don't remember 11:23:43
`exactly.
` Q And while you were reviewing source
`code, were you working on your -- were you
`writing your rebuttal report as well?
` A I was editing it. 11:23:59
` MR. LIANG: Objection to form.
` BY MR. SIDDIQUI:
` Q You were editing your report while
`writing your expert report; is that correct?
`Sorry, you were editing your report while you 11:24:14
`were reviewing source code; is that correct?
` A It's difficult to remember exactly
`when I did what because I was doing so many
`things. But there very well may have been some
`overlap. 11:24:24
` Q So on pages 16 to 18, there's roughly
`90 source code directories listed. And so how
`much time did you spend reviewing each source
`code directory?
` MR. LIANG: Objection. 11:24:47
`
`Page 20
`
`directories?
` MR. LIANG: Objection to form.
` THE WITNESS: No, I looked at the
`source code files that were representative of
`location or maps or the issues that were at 11:25:55
`stake.
` BY MR. SIDDIQUI:
` Q Do you recall what -- sorry, go
`ahead. I apologize, I didn't mean to cut you
`off. 11:26:08
` A Again, it's all listed there in the
`report.
` Q Yeah. I see a list of source code
`directories, but you're saying you looked at
`source code files that were representative of 11:26:21
`location. Do you know what you mean by
`representative?
` A It says it right here. So in
`particular, I verify that GreenTorch does not
`have the files that -- some of the files which 11:26:38
`were mentioned, and I talk about what they are,
`some of them aren't being used, and that
`several of the files are used by Apple
`Messaging, not by Find line, Find My Friends.
` And later on in the declaration, I 11:26:57
`
`5 (Pages 17 to 20)
`
`

`

`Case 5:19-cv-00036-RWS Document 447-10 Filed 07/27/20 Page 8 of 53 PageID #: 25004
`
`Page 21
`
`looked through core location files, and I
`looked at the data structures and the objects
`that are brought in for looking at location,
`determining location to see if there's any hint
`of using heading information or compass or 11:27:10
`gyro, and there's absolutely not. I even
`looked in these places for any indication of
`heading or compass or gyro being used, and I
`found nothing. And that's what I say.
` Q Okay. And with respect to Find My 11:27:28
`Friend source code that you say is not being
`used and it's being used for messaging, what in
`the source code indicated to you that the Find
`My Friend source code is being used for only
`Find My Friends messaging app? 11:27:57
` A During my calls, and I'm going
`through my report now with Mr. Lopatin, he
`informed me that, for instance, the source code
`in the first table was not used in Find line
`starting in iOS 13. It moved to GreenTorch, 11:28:47
`was put into Swift Dash at that time so it
`isn't even an objective C file. And I
`confirmed that and I mention the files that are
`not there are not used.
` And then when I talked also with 11:29:07
`
`Page 23
` THE WITNESS: I don't really recall
`exactly what the directory name is. I looked
`at all of them that are called here.
` BY MR. SIDDIQUI:
` Q Let's look at page -- 11:30:41
` A Actually, you can see, it's true.
`IOS Find My Friends, and then there's a tag on
`it, and then you go down, Daemon iOS 9 through
`13, for example to the top. And then it's
`different for the different ones. 11:30:58
` Q So is it your opinion that the source
`code included within directories that have Find
`My Friends in the title are not being used by
`Find My Friends application; is that correct?
` A Yes, that's correct. Those routines 11:31:12
`are not being used by the Find My Friends
`location in these versions that I cite.
` Q And what in the source code review
`led you to believe it?
` A The applications aren't in the 11:31:29
`directory. You don't see the files in those
`directories. So FMFDataManager.m isn't there.
` Q But it is there, find my --
`FMFDataManager.m is within the directory Find
`My Friends-175/Daemon? 11:31:54
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`Page 22
`Mr. Lopatin, he told me that these source code
`files are only used for Apple messaging and not
`for Find My Friends, and I looked to see if I
`could see these files used or included, and I
`didn't. 11:29:29
` Q What does find my -- Find My Friends
`or -- denote to you? Does Find My Friends
`denote to you it's a messaging app or is it a
`Find My Friends application?
` MR. LIANG: Objection; form. 11:29:45
` THE WITNESS: Find My Friends is an
`application, I believe, it says here.
` BY MR. SIDDIQUI:
` Q Okay. And so is it your opinion that
`the source code for Find My Friends, which is 11:29:57
`the name of the directory, not used for the
`Find My Friends application?
` MR. LIANG: Objection; form.
` THE WITNESS: The source code that I
`explicitly cite here in this table is not used 11:30:13
`in the Find My Friends application.
` BY MR. SIDDIQUI:
` Q Okay. But the name of the directory
`is Find My Friends; correct?
` MR. LIANG: Objection to form. 11:30:28
`
`Page 24
`
` A It's not included in the header file
`at this point. It could -- I'm slightly -- I'd
`have to refresh, but it's not used or it's not
`there.
` Q So Dr. Paradiso, I believe it's 11:32:08
`there, so let's rule that out. And because
`perhaps you're mixing GreenTorch with the other
`iOSes. So I think, you know, just I believe
`that's why you list them on page 53, these
`files that are listed under paragraph 53 of 11:32:31
`your report are, in fact, within these Find My
`Friends directories.
` So assuming that's true, can you tell
`me what led you to believe that these source
`code files listed on page 19 of your report 11:32:45
`that are within the directory Find My Friends
`are not used for Find My Friends applications?
` MR. LIANG: Objection to form.
` THE WITNESS: Can you tell -- can you
`tell me which -- you said page 53, but I don't 11:32:59
`see anything on 53, any table.
` BY MR. SIDDIQUI:
` Q I apologize. I meant paragraph 53.
` A Paragraph 53. Yes, yes. I don't
`believe they're included in the -- in the Find 11:33:15
`
`6 (Pages 21 to 24)
`
`

`

`Case 5:19-cv-00036-RWS Document 447-10 Filed 07/27/20 Page 9 of 53 PageID #: 25005
`
`Page 25
`My Friends header files. They aren't used in
`the program. You see no evidence of them being
`included or used.
` Q Okay. So if the files are there
`within the directory, then -- then would you 11:33:29
`change your opinion?
` MR. LIANG: Objection; form.
` THE WITNESS: I don't think I would.
` BY MR. SIDDIQUI:
` Q So I don't understand the basis of -- 11:33:44
`I think you're saying that because the files
`are not there, you don't -- you didn't see any
`evidence of them being used.
` A Yes. Yeah, they are not being used,
`they're not being included and used in the 11:34:01
`software and/or they're not there. If they're
`there, they're not being used.
` Q And what is your basis for believing
`that they are not being used?
` MR. LIANG: Objection to form. 11:34:12
` THE WITNESS: They're not included in
`the software. The software doesn't link to
`them.
` BY MR. SIDDIQUI:
` Q But they are included in the source 11:34:20
`
`Page 27
`you don't mind, can you please provide me your
`basis for asserting that the source code files
`included within directories entitled Find My
`Friends are not being executed in the accused
`products Find My Friends application. 11:36:05
` MR. LIANG: Object to form.
` THE WITNESS: I believe because you
`can't -- you don't see it in the header file
`that is used to put this together.
` BY MR. SIDDIQUI: 11:36:17
` Q Which header file is that?
` A I don't recall.
` MR. LIANG: Objection; form.
` BY MR. SIDDIQUI:
` Q So sitting here today, you can't 11:36:24
`recall which header file you looked at to form
`your basis that these source code files that
`are made available by Apple in this case under
`Find My Friends directory for iOS 9 through 10,
`11, 12 are not being executed; is that correct? 11:36:45
` MR. LIANG: Object to form.
` THE WITNESS: Yes, that's correct.
`But I was very confident when I made this
`table.
` BY MR. SIDDIQUI: 11:36:58
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`Page 26
`
`code. What is your basis for saying they're
`not included in the software?
` MR. LIANG: Objection to form.
` THE WITNESS: In this -- the software
`build -- let me again review here, see if it's 11:34:31
`clearer. Oh, here.
` Yes, I believe in the software that
`actually calls these routines, puts these
`routines together, you don't see them called
`out, they're not in the header files, they're 11:35:16
`not being used. They're being used by
`Messenger, they're not being used by Fine Line.
` BY MR. SIDDIQUI:
` Q I understand that is your opinion,
`but I would like to see what evidence that 11:35:30
`opinion is based on.
` MR. LIANG: Objection to form.
` BY MR. SIDDIQUI:
` Q And so you have not explained here
`what forms your belief that they're not being 11:35:38
`executed.
` MR. LIANG: Objection to form.
` THE WITNESS: I thought I did.
` BY MR. SIDDIQUI:
` Q So I apologize, Dr. Paradiso, so if 11:35:49
`
`Page 28
`
` Q Okay. Did anybody -- any other
`expert or consultant assist you in your source
`code review?
` A I had a source code expert that I did
`speak with. 11:37:09
` Q Do you recall his name?
` A Andrew Mayo.
` Q Have you ever worked with Mr. Mayo
`before?
` A No, I have not. 11:37:20
` Q Are you familiar with Mr. Mayo?
` A No, I am not.
` Q Do you know what his credentials are?
` A He appears to be very familiar with
`Apple code. 11:37:34
` Q And was counsel present on the call
`that you spoke with Mr. Mayo?
` A Yes, they were.
` MR. LIANG: Objection.
` I'll just caution the witness, this 11:37:45
`is veering into privileged -- seeking
`privileged communications protected under the
`discovery order. So don't divulge contents of
`the discussion. You can say who was on, how
`long it was, when you talked with us, and we'll 11:38:06
`
`7 (Pages 25 to 28)
`
`

`

`Case 5:19-cv-00036-RWS Document 447-10 Filed 07/27/20 Page 10 of 53 PageID #: 25006
`
`Page 29
`
`Page 30
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`leave it there.
` BY MR. SIDDIQUI:
` Q Dr. Paradiso, so when did you speak
`with Dr. -- or Mr. Mayo? Sorry, I actually
`don't remember. Do you know if he -- let's 11:38:15
`strike that.
` Do you know if it's Mr. Mayo or
`Dr. Mayo?
` A I don't