Case 5:19-cv-00036-RWS Document 389-9 Filed 07/02/20 Page 1 of 6 PageID #: 19148
`Case 5:19-cv-00036—RWS Document 389-9 Filed 07/02/20 Page 1 of 6 PageID #: 19148
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`EXHIBIT 4
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`EXHIBIT 4
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`Case 5:19-cv-00036-RWS Document 389-9 Filed 07/02/20 Page 2 of 6 PageID #: 19149
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`Page 1
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` UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
` EASTERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS
` TEXARKANA DIVISION
`--------------------------X
`MAXELL, LTD., :
` Plaintiff, : Case No.
` v. : 5:19-cv-00036-RWS
`APPLE INC., :
` Defendant. :
`--------------------------X
` Videotaped deposition of VIJAY MADISETTI Ph.D.
` Tuesday, October 22, 2019
` Atlanta, GA
` 8:57 a.m.
`
`Job No.: 170439
`Pages: 1 - 186
`Reported by: Giselle Mitchell-Margerum, RPR, CRI,
`CCR
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`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
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`Case 5:19-cv-00036-RWS Document 389-9 Filed 07/02/20 Page 3 of 6 PageID #: 19150
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` V. MADISETTI
`different aspects of image and video processing.
`Do you consider any of those topics more relevant
`to the technology at issue in this case?
` A. I would generally say that they are all
`generally relevant. The whole area was in the area
`of image and video processing.
` Q. Got it. So, around the same section of
`your expert report -- around paragraphs 28 through
`31, you provide an opinion on the level of ordinary
`skill in the art. Do you see that?
` A. I do.
` Q. And it's your opinion that a person of
`ordinary skill in the art would be a person with a
`bachelor's of science degree in electrical or
`computer engineering, computer science, or an
`equivalent degree; and at least two years of
`experience working in the field of image/video
`processing.
` Is that correct?
` A. That's right.
` Q. And what do you mean by "working in the
`field of image/video processing?"
` A. They would be dealing with both the
`hardware and the software aspects of image and
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` V. MADISETTI
` Q. So, as part of working in the field of
`image/video processing, what knowledge must a
`person know to qualify as a POSITA?
` A. Generally, familiarity with the types of
`processing that occurs with image and video
`acquisition; with post-processing with the
`different types of -- with the different types
`of -- improvement of the quality of the image;
`better storage; ability to convert it to different
`forms.
` Q. So if you were to, say, you know,
`interview a person to determine whether that person
`qualifies as a POSITA, or not, would you expect
`that person to know about the different types of
`image sensors that were, you know, available on the
`market?
` A. At some level, yes, they would be
`knowledgeable about some types of sensors.
` Q. So around -- I want to keep -- ask you to
`keep in mind that this patent was filed in early
`2000. Do you recall that?
` A. Yes.
` Q. So, around that time, would you expect a
`POSITA to know about different types of image
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` V. MADISETTI
`video processing.
` Q. So you would consider someone of ordinary
`skill in the art, as a bare minimum requirement, to
`have some experience in both the hardware and the
`software aspects of video image -- I'm sorry --
`video/image processing.
` Is that right?
` MR. NESE: Object to the form.
` A. No. The way I've said that in paragraph
`30 -- I mean, I think that two years of experience
`in the field of image/video processing is what I
`consider as the definition of a "POSITA" here.
` THE COURT REPORTER: Of a what?
` THE WITNESS: Of a person of ordinary
`skill in the art. P-O-S-I-T-A.
`BY MR. ZHOU:
` Q. So, during this deposition, if I use the
`phrase, "POSITA" -- P-O-S-I-T-A -- to refer to a
`person of ordinary skill in the art, around the
`time of the 493 Patent's filing, would you
`understand that?
` A. Yes, I would. It would refer to what I
`describe in paragraphs 28 through 31 of my
`declaration.
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` V. MADISETTI
`sensors, like CCD sensors, and CMOS image sensors,
`and so forth?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Would you expect that person to know the
`differences between how a CCD sensor would work
`versus how a CMOS sensor would work?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Would you expect a person skilled in the
`art to know about how the pixels are arranged on
`the sensor?
` A. Yes.
` Q. In horizontal row, and vertical columns,
`and so forth?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And those would be common knowledge that
`you would expect a person skilled in the art to
`know, heading into -- you know, even before reading
`the 493 Patent. Right?
` A. Yes. They would be -- they would be
`knowledgeable as to those formats.
` Q. As part of working in image/video
`processing, would you expect a person skilled in
`the art to know about image signal processors and
`image signal processing algorithms?
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` A. Yes.
` Q. What would you expect a person skilled in
`the art to know in those aspects?
` A. Things like -- topics like interpolation,
`decimation. Topics like noise removal; pixel
`collection; various types of compression; storage
`types of techniques.
` Q. Right. So, I think the first thing you
`mentioned was "interpolation." Right?
` A. Yes. Interpolation, decimation and
`others.
` Q. So, interpolation refers to taking an
`image and trying to kind of increase the
`resolution -- pixel resolution of the image by
`interpolating between pixels. Is that, generally,
`correct?
` A. Now, as I said, I mean, one of -- it
`could be one of the uses. That's not a definition.
`"Interpolation" can be used in many, many ways.
` Q. So one example of a use for
`"interpolation" would be to take a low resolution
`image and try to increase the resolution by
`interpolating between pixels. Is that right?
` A. That's one example, yes.
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` V. MADISETTI
` Q. And what years did you work on this Intel
`chipset?
` A. In the early 2000 time frame.
` Q. Early 2000, after the filing of the 493
`Patent?
` A. Around that time frame.
` Q. As part of working in image/video
`processing, would you expect a person skilled in
`the art to know about different types of display
`screens and display formats?
` A. Yes. Generally, again, at a high level.
` Q. For example, would you expect a person
`skilled in the art to know about the difference
`between CRT displays, and LCD displays, and active
`matrix displays, and so forth?
` A. At a high level, yes.
` Q. What about television display standards,
`like NTSC, and PAL, and so forth?
` A. At a high level, yes.
` Q. And what do you mean by a "high level?"
` A. Again, because it's signal processing,
`and image processing, at a very high level. They
`may not be intimately familiar with all aspects of
`it.
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` V. MADISETTI
` Q. And "decimation;" one example of a use
`for "decimation" would be to take a higher
`resolution image and reduce the resolution of that
`image. Is that right?
` A. That's -- one again -- one example of
`"decimation."
` Q. In your CV -- earlier in your CV, around
`paragraph 13, you had mentioned that you worked on
`image processing chipsets, like the Intel and
`MXP5800 family of image processing chipsets.
` Do you see that?
` A. Yes.
` Q. So, would you expect a person of ordinary
`skill in the art, as relevant to the 493 Patent, to
`know about different types of image signal
`processors available on the market, around the time
`of the patent's filing?
` A. At a high level, yes.
` Q. The product that you worked on -- the
`Intel MXP chipset -- was it capable of performing
`the general types of image/video processing you
`discussed earlier? Like interpolation, and
`decimation, and noise removal, and so forth?
` A. Yes. It was used in photocopiers.
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` V. MADISETTI
` Q. But you expect them to know, at least,
`the general concept of, for example, NTSC display.
`Is that right?
` A. I would expect them to know the general
`aspects of TV broadcast and signal formats. Both
`progressive, as well as interlaced approaches.
`Because they have been around since the 1930s and
`'40s.
` So, I would expect them to be familiar
`that TV -- TV systems -- TV display systems would
`support both progressive and interlaced approaches.
` Q. So, going to paragraph 29, you say here
`that, as relating to the 493 Patent, the patent
`involves general principles, including the concepts
`of digital image and video processing for electric
`cameras.
` Do you see that?
` A. Yes.
` Q. What do you mean by "electric cameras?"
` A. Primarily, digital cameras and devices.
` Q. Is there a difference between electric
`cameras and digital cameras, in your mind?
` A. I would say that digital camera is an --
`digital camera is what is generally being referred
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`Case 5:19-cv-00036-RWS Document 389-9 Filed 07/02/20 Page 5 of 6 PageID #: 19152
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` V. MADISETTI
`for interlacing. So where, I think, your expert
`has errored, or erred, is that he seems to state
`that vertical blanking period field -- vertical
`blanking period only applies to master scanning,
`which only applied to interlacing, and he is wrong.
` So you can have vertical blanking period
`in -- for the sake of progressing scanning and
`displays as well. And a simple book, for example,
`by Charles Poynton. The book is called "HD Video,"
`has, in chapter eight, a full description of how
`vertical blanking period is present in progressive
`displays and scanning.
` Q. Dr. Madisetti, what I asked you to
`explain is what a vertical blanking period is.
`Right? And your answer was, "it traces back to the
`first line." So what I'm asking you is, what is
`being traced back to the first line?
` A. The scan position.
` Q. The scan position of what? The
`electronic gun that's shooting at the CRT? Or what
`is being --
` A. It could be anything. For a digital
`sensor, or for a digital display. It could be the
`position. Depending on whether it's a CCD, or
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` V. MADISETTI
`reads and successive line reads. Successive line
`reads is the horizontal blanking. Successive frame
`reads is the vertical blanking.
` Q. But in the context of interlace, it would
`be successful field? Or is it still successive
`frame?
` A. Successive field for interlaced. And for
`progressive, it's successive frame. But, again, I
`have to look at the specific way this is used.
` Q. And so, we talked about horizontal. We
`talked about vertical. Are those well understood
`directions to a person skilled in the art, in the
`context of image processing?
` A. Again, I'm not sure as to your question.
`I mean, the way the typical digital image sensors
`are read, are rows and columns. So, in the context
`of the example shown, they have used some examples
`to show how you could drive, say, an interlaced or
`a progressive TV system.
` But you don't need to have a TV display
`as a part -- you don't have -- necessarily have to
`have a particular type of display.
` Q. So, horizontal would be in the direction
`each line is being either read out, or being
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` V. MADISETTI
`whether it is a CMOS. It can have different types.
` Again, the examples are describing
`certain embodiments, but one of ordinary skill in
`the art would understand that this applies to CMOS;
`CCDs. It would have also applied to progressive
`and interlacing.
` Q. So, the horizontal scanning period, is it
`correct to understand that the horizontal
`scanning -- strike that.
` Is it correct to understand that the
`horizontal blanking period has a time gap between
`scanning of individual horizontal lines? Is that
`correct?
` A. Roughly, yes. Again, I'm not exactly
`sure how -- what additional qualification is needed
`there, but it's generally right.
` Q. And the vertical --
` A. And it doesn't matter. It applies to
`both interlacing and progressive.
` Q. And the vertical blanking period is the
`time gap between the last pixel on one field, or
`frame, and the first pixel in the next field, or
`frame. Is that correct?
` A. It's the time between successive frame
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` V. MADISETTI
`scanned on to the display. And vertical would be
`the direction perpendicular to that? Is that your
`understanding?
` A. Again, those are, again, very loose
`terms. Some people say it depends on the type of
`scanning. So it could be zigzag. It could be
`angular. It could be moving in -- I'm not sure
`what you mean, perpendicular. But one refers to
`rows. The other refers to the entire set of rows.
` Q. So if I flip this iPad onto sideways, it
`doesn't change the direction of its scanning;
`right?
` A. You're talking about the camera?
` Q. So, I asked you what vertical -- the
`scanning period and vertical blanking period are,
`and you provided an explanation that uses the terms
`"horizontal" and "vertical."
` I'm just trying to understand what you
`mean by the horizontal and the vertical aspects, in
`the context of these two terms. Right?
` A. Yeah. But those terms are not part of
`the claims, which is why I was trying to look into
`the specification.
` Q. Sure.
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` V. MADISETTI
` A. The specification uses them as examples.
`My high level understanding is that the horizontal
`refers to reading a single row, and vertical refers
`to reading multiple rows.
` Q. Understood.
` A. And that's, again, a single embodiment,
`but I will not restrict it to a particular
`interlacing or progressive embodiment.
` Q. Understood. In paragraph 66 of your
`declaration, you provide -- you cite additional
`parts of the patent specification, as it relates to
`the effective scanning align term.
` Do you see that?
` A. Yes. I describe there, because it
`actually -- the patentee uses their own terms, that
`it refers to the effective scanning line number as
`the number of scanning lines actually displayed on
`the monitor.
` Q. So would you agree that the six -- strike
`that.
` Would you agree that the 493 Patent, at
`column one, lines 37 through 60 -- 37 through 43
`provides a description of the effective scanning
`lines term?
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` V. MADISETTI
`section, which is column one, lines 37 to 43.
` So there is a specific embodiment that
`provides some support, but not necessarily the only
`support; nor is it the only embodiment.
` Q. So, column one, lines 37 to 43, isn't
`talking about a particular embodiment. Right?
`It's just giving a background of the technology;
`isn't it?
` A. I would disagree. I would say that
`column one, lines 30 to 32 -- sorry, line number 33
`to 34, specifically describe that -- that in the
`context of a general television system, on line
`number 33; then it gives a couple of examples, such
`as NTSC and PAL. So, it is talking about a
`specific example.
` Q. So it's your testimony here today that
`the paragraphs under the heading "Background of the
`Invention" describes specific embodiments of the
`claimed invention. Is that right?
` A. It describes the background of the
`invention and refers to certain claimed -- certain
`types of television systems as specific examples.
` Q. So, going to paragraph 66 again, in your
`declaration --
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` V. MADISETTI
` A. For one embodiment. But it is not
`limiting to NTSC. It can also apply, in a more
`general form, to progressive as well. And other
`types of displays.
` Q. So would you agree that 493 Patent, at
`column one, lines 37 through 43, provides
`description of one embodiment of the effective
`scanning line term?
` A. One specific embodiment with respect to a
`particular type of monitor, but it's not limiting.
`And one of ordinary skill in the art would
`understand that this definition would also apply to
`progressive displays as well.
` Q. And now, Maxell relied on this part of
`what you describe as a non-limiting description to
`derive its claim construction. Right?
` A. I don't know what Maxell did.
` Q. So you -- your opinion, in paragraph 66,
`is that the term actually displayed on a monitor
`comes from this portion of the specification.
`Right?
` A. This support -- support for the
`specification -- for that construction is also
`found among other sections in the background
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` V. MADISETTI
` A. Yeah.
` Q. -- on the bottom of page 14?
` A. Yeah.
` Q. The portion you cite states that in the
`NTSC system, the number of effective scanning lines
`is about 240 lines.
` Do you see that?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And that is the number of scanning lines
`actually displayed on the monitor. Do you see
`that?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And in this embodiment, it's being
`equaled to the number of scanning lines in the
`vertical blanking period, subtracted from the total
`number of scanning lines in each field.
` Do you see that?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And this vertical blanking period is the
`same vertical blanking period we talked about
`around the last break we took. Is that right?
` A. The vertical blank period is the time
`that -- so, there are a number of lines that are
`not displayed. And the effective -- what this is
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