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`Exhibit 6
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`Exhibit 6
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`Case 2:17-cv-00514-JRG Document 224-7 Filed 02/21/19 Page 2 of 238 PageID #: 19344
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`DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018
`·1· · · · · · · ·UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
`·2· · · · · · · CENTRAL DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA
`·3
`·4· ·AGIS SOFTWARE DEVELOPMENT LLC,· · )
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·) Civil Action No.
`·5· · · · · · · · · · ·Plaintiff,· · · ) 2:17-cv-513-JRG
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·) (LEAD CASE)
`·6· · · · · · · vs.· · · · · · · · · · ) Civil Action No.
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·) 2:17-cv-516-JRG
`·7· ·APPLE, INC.,· · · · · · · · · · · ) Pages 1 to 237
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·)
`·8· · · · · · · · · · ·Defendant.· · · )
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·)
`·9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14· · · · · · ·DEPOSITION OF DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL
`15· · · · · · · · · · · · ·TAKEN ON
`16· · · · · · · ·WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 14, 2018
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24· ·Reported by:· PHILIP D. NORRIS
`25· · · · · · · · ·CSR NO. 4980
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`Epiq Court Reporting Solutions - New YorkEpiq Court Reporting Solutions - New York
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`1-800-325-33761-800-325-3376
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`www.deposition.comwww.deposition.com
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`DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018
`Page 2
`·1· · · · · · Deposition of Dr. Neil G. Siegel, taken on
`·2· ·behalf of Plaintiff, at 3635 Fashion Way, Torrance,
`·3· ·California, on Wednesday, November 14, 2018, at 9:23
`·4· ·a.m., before Philip D. Norris, CSR No. 4980,
`·5· ·pursuant to Notice.
`·6
`·7· ·APPEARANCES:
`·8
`·9· ·FOR THE PLAINTIFF:
`10· · · · · · BROWN RUDNICK
`11· · · · · · BY:· VINCENT RUBINO, ESQ.
`12· · · · · · · · ·ENRIQUE W. ITURRALDE, ESQ.
`13· · · · · · 7 Times Square
`14· · · · · · New York, New York 10036
`15· · · · · · (212) 209-4800
`16· · · · · · Email:· Vrubino@brownrudnick.com
`17· · · · · · · · · · Eiturralde@brownrudnick.com
`18· ·FOR THE DEFENDANT APPLE, INC.:
`19· · · · · · DESMARAIS, LLP
`20· · · · · · BY:· KATHRYN BI, ESQ.
`21· · · · · · · · ·AMEET A. MODI, ESQ.
`22· · · · · · 230 Park Avenue
`23· · · · · · New York, New York 10169
`24· · · · · · (212) 351-3406
`25· · · · · · Email:· Amodi@desmaraisllp.com
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`Epiq Court Reporting Solutions - New YorkEpiq Court Reporting Solutions - New York
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`1-800-325-33761-800-325-3376
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`www.deposition.comwww.deposition.com
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`DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018
`·1· ·APPEARANCES:
`·2
`·3· ·FOR THE DEFENDANT HTC CORPORATION:
`·4· · · · · · PERKINS COIE
`·5· · · · · · BY:· MIGUEL J. BOMBACH, ESQ.
`·6· · · · · · 11988 El Camino Real, Suite 350
`·7· · · · · · San Diego, California 92130
`·8· · · · · · Email:· Mbombach@perkinscoie.com
`·9· ·FOR THE DEFENDANT LG ELECTRONICS:
`10· · · · · · ARNOLD & PORTER
`11· · · · · · BY:· JUSTIN J. CHI, ESQ.
`12· · · · · · 777 South Figueroa Street, 44th Floor
`13· · · · · · Los Angeles, California 90017
`14· · · · · · (213) 243-4030
`15· · · · · · Email: Justin.chi@arnoldporter.com
`16· ·ALSO PRESENT:
`17· · · · · · THE VIDEOGRAPHER:· RENEE MAYFIELD
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
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`Epiq Court Reporting Solutions - New YorkEpiq Court Reporting Solutions - New York
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`1-800-325-33761-800-325-3376
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`www.deposition.comwww.deposition.com
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`DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018
`·1· · · · · · · · · · · · ·I N D E X
`·2
`·3· ·WITNESS· · · · · · · ·EXAMINATION· · · · · · · ·PAGE
`·4· ·Dr. Neil G. Siegel· (By Mr. Rubino)· · · · · · · · 7
`·5
`·6· · · · · · · · · · · · E X H I B I T S
`·7· ·NO.· · · · · PAGE· · DESCRIPTION
`·8· ·Exhibit 1· · · 53· · Expert Report of Neil Siegel,
`·9· · · · · · · · · · · · 266 pages
`10· ·Exhibit 2· · ·105· · MBA Professional Report, Bates
`11· · · · · · · · · · · · numbers APL-AGIS_00012804 to
`12· · · · · · · · · · · · 12876
`13· ·Exhibit 3· · ·145· · Article from Signal Magazine,
`14· · · · · · · · · · · · "Little Computer Produces Big
`15· · · · · · · · · · · · Results," four pages
`16· ·Exhibit 4· · ·150· · Army Programs, Force XXI Battle
`17· · · · · · · · · · · · Command, Brigade & Below
`18· · · · · · · · · · · · (FBCB2), pages 79 and 80
`19· ·Exhibit 5· · ·166· · Blue Force Tracking, Bates
`20· · · · · · · · · · · · numbers APL-AGIS_00012877 to
`21· · · · · · · · · · · · 896
`22· ·Exhibit 6· · ·179· · Placeholder, SIEGEL000484
`23· ·Exhibit 7· · ·182· · "Army to upgrade Land Warrior
`24· · · · · · · · · · · · system with blue-force,"
`25· · · · · · · · · · · · five pages
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`Epiq Court Reporting Solutions - New YorkEpiq Court Reporting Solutions - New York
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`1-800-325-33761-800-325-3376
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`DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018
`·1· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·I N D E X
`·2· · · · · · · · · · · · E X H I B I T S
`·3· ·NO.· · · · · PAGE· · DESCRIPTION
`·4· ·Exhibit 8· · ·206· · Appendix A, Attachment 8B,
`·5· · · · · · · · · · · · Bates number SIEGL000301 to 302
`·6· ·Exhibit 9· · ·223· · Copy of U.S. Patent No
`·7· · · · · · · · · · · · 8,280,423, 20 pages
`·8· ·Exhibit 10· · 223· · Docket No. 38-0021
`·9· · · · · · · · · · · · signature page
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`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
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`Epiq Court Reporting Solutions - New YorkEpiq Court Reporting Solutions - New York
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`1-800-325-33761-800-325-3376
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`www.deposition.comwww.deposition.comYVer1f
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`Case 2:17-cv-00514-JRG Document 224-7 Filed 02/21/19 Page 7 of 238 PageID #: 19349
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`DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018
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`·1· · ·TORRANCE, CALIFORNIA; WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 14, 2018
`·2· · · · · · · · · · · · 9:23 A.M.
`·3
`·4
`·5· · · · · · THE VIDEOGRAPHER:· Here begins Videotape
`·6· ·No. 1 in the deposition of Dr. Neil Siegel, in the
`·7· ·matter of AGIS Software Development LLC versus Apple
`·8· ·Inc., in the United States District Court, for the
`·9· ·Eastern District of Texas, case No. 2:17-cv-516-JRG.
`10· ·Today's date is November 14, 2018.· The time on the
`11· ·video monitor is 9:23 a.m.
`12· · · · · · The video operator today is Renee Mayfield.
`13· ·This video deposition is taking place at 3635
`14· ·Fashion Way, Torrance, California 90503.
`15· · · · · · Counsel, please voice identify yourselves
`16· ·and state whom you represent.
`17· · · · · · MR. RUBINO:· Vincent Rubino from Brown
`18· ·Rudnick for the plaintiff AGIS.· And also with me
`19· ·from the law firm of Brown Rudnick is my colleague
`20· ·Enrique Iturralde.
`21· · · · · · MS. BI:· Kathryn Bi from the law firm of
`22· ·Desmarais LLP on behalf of the witness and defendant
`23· ·Apple, Inc.· With me is Ameet Modi, also from the
`24· ·law firm of Desmarais LLP.
`25· · · · · · MR. BOMBACH:· Miguel Bombach from HTC --
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`DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018
`Page 7
`·1· ·representing HTC Corporation, from Perkins Coie.
`·2· · · · · · MR. CHI:· Justin Chi from Arnold & Porter
`·3· ·representing LG Electronics, Inc.
`·4· · · · · · THE VIDEOGRAPHER:· The court reporter today
`·5· ·is Philip Norris of Epiq Court Reporters.
`·6· · · · · · Would the reporter please swear in the
`·7· ·witness.
`·8
`·9· · · · · · · · · · DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL,
`10· · · · · · ·having been first duly sworn, was
`11· · · · · · examined and testified as follows:
`12
`13· · · · · · · · · · · · EXAMINATION
`14
`15· ·BY MR. RUBINO:
`16· · · · Q.· Good morning.· Can you please state your
`17· ·full name for the record?
`18· · · · A.· Yes, sir.· Good morning.· My name is Neil
`19· ·Gilbert Siegel.
`20· · · · Q.· Dr. Siegel, when were you first contacted
`21· ·by Apple in this case?
`22· · · · A.· I received an email in December of 2017,
`23· ·that is about 11 months ago, unsolicited, from a
`24· ·lady named Kathryn Bi, asking if I could consider --
`25· ·she had a conversation with me about potentially
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`Epiq Court Reporting Solutions - New YorkEpiq Court Reporting Solutions - New York
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`DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018
`·1· ·being an expert witness in a legal case, and we
`·2· ·shortly thereafter had a phone call.
`·3· · · · Q.· And did you ultimately agree to be an
`·4· ·expert in this case?
`·5· · · · A.· Yes.
`·6· · · · Q.· When did you sign -- well, let me back up a
`·7· ·second.
`·8· · · · · · Do you have a formal retainer agreement
`·9· ·with Desmarais or Apple?
`10· · · · A.· I'm not exactly sure what constitutes a
`11· ·retainer agreement.· There's an agreement that both
`12· ·Apple and I signed that describes the business terms
`13· ·of my engagement for this purpose.
`14· · · · Q.· When did you sign the agreement that sets
`15· ·forth the business terms of your engagement for this
`16· ·case?
`17· · · · A.· Early in 2018.
`18· · · · Q.· So not long after you had the phone call;
`19· ·right?
`20· · · · A.· A few weeks after.· It may be six weeks. I
`21· ·did not check.· I did double-check when I got the
`22· ·original email.· I didn't double-check on the date
`23· ·of the agreement.
`24· · · · Q.· So you've at least been working with Apple
`25· ·as an expert witness -- in the context of an expert
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`Epiq Court Reporting Solutions - New YorkEpiq Court Reporting Solutions - New York
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`DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018
`Page 9
`·1· ·witness in this case since January of this year;
`·2· ·right?
`·3· · · · A.· January or February, yeah.
`·4· · · · Q.· And are you being compensated for your time
`·5· ·by Apple?
`·6· · · · A.· Yes.
`·7· · · · Q.· What's the hourly rate for which you're
`·8· ·being compensated by Apple in this case?
`·9· · · · A.· One thousand dollars an hour.
`10· · · · Q.· Is it the same for consulting as well as
`11· ·testimony time?
`12· · · · · · MS. BI:· Objection, form.
`13· · · · · · MR. RUBINO:· Let me ask a different
`14· ·question.· Sometimes experts charge different rates
`15· ·for reports versus testimony in court.
`16· · · · Q.· Is your rate the same for all time spent on
`17· ·this case?
`18· · · · A.· The rate is the same for all time for which
`19· ·I'm allowed to bill hours on this case.
`20· · · · Q.· So from the beginning of your engagement
`21· ·with Apple, how many hours have you spent on this
`22· ·case?
`23· · · · A.· About 70 thus far.
`24· · · · Q.· And were you compensated for all 70 of
`25· ·those hours?
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`Epiq Court Reporting Solutions - New YorkEpiq Court Reporting Solutions - New York
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`DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018
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`·1· · · · A.· There's billing terms.· They don't pay me
`·2· ·every day.· So at the end of the month I submit an
`·3· ·invoice, and I believe 60 days later they pay me.
`·4· ·So I've been paid some, but there are outstanding
`·5· ·invoices, but I expect they will be paid.
`·6· · · · Q.· So do you expect to be paid about $70,000
`·7· ·for your time thus far?
`·8· · · · A.· That's correct.
`·9· · · · Q.· Do you expect to bill more time between now
`10· ·and trial in March?
`11· · · · A.· I don't actually know what, if any,
`12· ·material amount of time will be spent between now
`13· ·and trial, but if -- I will bill for the hours that
`14· ·are billable under the terms of our agreement.
`15· · · · Q.· Do you expect to testify at the trial in
`16· ·March?
`17· · · · A.· I've been told that I have to be available
`18· ·if they choose to call me, yes.
`19· · · · Q.· And will you be available, to the best of
`20· ·your understanding today?
`21· · · · A.· Yes.
`22· · · · Q.· To testify at the trial in March; right?
`23· · · · A.· Correct.
`24· · · · Q.· And for the time you testify at the trial
`25· ·in March you'll also be paid a thousand dollars an
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`DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018
`·1· ·hour; right?
`·2· · · · A.· I don't actually recall whether under the
`·3· ·terms of the agreement that that actual time is
`·4· ·billable or not.· If it's allowed under the
`·5· ·agreement, I will be paid for it.
`·6· · · · Q.· What about your preparation time for trial,
`·7· ·is that permitted?
`·8· · · · · · MS. BI:· Objection, form.
`·9· · · · · · THE REPORTER:· I didn't hear you.
`10· · · · · · MS. BI:· Go ahead.
`11· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· Yeah, I believe it is.
`12· ·BY MR. RUBINO:
`13· · · · Q.· And so you'd be paid for your preparation
`14· ·time as well in advance of trial; right?
`15· · · · A.· I believe that's correct.
`16· · · · Q.· And again, that's at the rate of a thousand
`17· ·dollars an hour; right?
`18· · · · A.· Correct.
`19· · · · Q.· And did you provide Apple with any
`20· ·documents in connection with this case?
`21· · · · A.· I identified documents that were in my
`22· ·possession or that I was able to get from places
`23· ·like the Internet and things -- other public
`24· ·repositories like that, that I thought were relevant
`25· ·citations, some expert report, and I provided copies
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`DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018
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`·1· ·of those items as I provided my expert report to
`·2· ·Apple.
`·3· · · · Q.· Did those documents include videos?
`·4· · · · A.· Yeah, there were a handful of what you
`·5· ·might call publicity or marketing videos made by
`·6· ·both the Army and by my former employer.
`·7· · · · Q.· Now, you said those are publicity or
`·8· ·marketing videos; correct?
`·9· · · · A.· Yeah, they were -- they're descriptions,
`10· ·depictions, videos that show the system in
`11· ·operation, videos that show soldiers talking about
`12· ·the use of the system.· They're not technical
`13· ·reports, but they're factual statements by people
`14· ·who've used the system.
`15· · · · Q.· Now, were those videos produced by your
`16· ·former employer Northrop Grumman or were they
`17· ·produced by a third party?
`18· · · · · · MS. BI:· Objection, form.
`19· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· Could you repeat your
`20· ·question, please?
`21· · · · · · MR. RUBINO:· Sure.
`22· · · · Q.· So earlier you said the videos were
`23· ·publicity or marketing by your former employer and
`24· ·the Army; right?
`25· · · · A.· Right.
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`DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018
`·1· · · · · · MS. BI:· Objection, form.
`·2· ·BY MR. RUBINO:
`·3· · · · Q.· And your former employer is or was Northrop
`·4· ·Grumman; right?
`·5· · · · A.· My former employer was Northrop Grumman.
`·6· ·Before that the company I worked for was called TRW,
`·7· ·and TRW was acquired in a corporate acquisition in
`·8· ·late 2002 by Northrop Grumman.· So some of the
`·9· ·documents in this, that I provided citations, say
`10· ·TRW and some say Northrop Grumman.
`11· · · · Q.· For now I'm just talking about the videos.
`12· ·Okay?
`13· · · · A.· Okay.
`14· · · · Q.· So you said that the videos were publicity
`15· ·or marketing; correct?
`16· · · · · · MS. BI:· Objection, form.
`17· · · · · · MR. RUBINO:· Let me rephrase it.
`18· · · · Q.· You said that the videos that you produced
`19· ·were what you might call publicity or marketing
`20· ·videos; correct?
`21· · · · · · MS. BI:· Objection, form.
`22· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· Yes, I said that.
`23· ·BY MR. RUBINO:
`24· · · · Q.· And you said that they were produced by
`25· ·both the Army and your former employer, and I'm just
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`DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018
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`·1· ·confirming that what you meant was the videos were
`·2· ·produced either by the Army, by TRW or by Northrop
`·3· ·Grumman; correct?
`·4· · · · A.· That is correct.
`·5· · · · Q.· They weren't produced by anybody else;
`·6· ·right?
`·7· · · · A.· As far as I know, that is correct.
`·8· · · · · · THE REPORTER:· Can we go off the record,
`·9· ·please?
`10· · · · · · MR. RUBINO:· Sure.
`11· · · · · · THE VIDEOGRAPHER:· We are off the record.
`12· ·The time is 9:32 a.m.
`13· · · · · · (Brief recess.)
`14· · · · · · THE VIDEOGRAPHER:· We are back on the
`15· ·record.· The time is 9:34 a.m.
`16· ·BY MR. RUBINO:
`17· · · · Q.· So Dr. Siegel, do you have a technical
`18· ·degree?
`19· · · · A.· I have a degree in mathematics at the
`20· ·bachelor's level, a degree in mathematics at the
`21· ·master's level, and a Ph.D. in system engineering.
`22· · · · Q.· Are you a programmer?
`23· · · · A.· I don't really consider myself a
`24· ·programmer.· I've done quite a bit of programming
`25· ·over the course of my career, but I didn't really
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`Case 2:17-cv-00514-JRG Document 224-7 Filed 02/21/19 Page 16 of 238 PageID #: 19358
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`DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018
`Page 15
`·1· ·consider -- I don't offer myself professionally as a
`·2· ·programmer these days.
`·3· · · · Q.· Do you review code in the course of your
`·4· ·work?
`·5· · · · A.· I certainly did during my career at
`·6· ·Northrop.· I worked 39 years in the aerospace
`·7· ·industry, including 31 years at TRW and Northrop
`·8· ·Grumman, and during that time I acted as a
`·9· ·programmer or viewer of code, but I don't consider
`10· ·that my main specialty.
`11· · · · Q.· When did you start working at TRW?
`12· · · · A.· I started in the aerospace industry as
`13· ·contract laborer at TRW right after Thanksgiving in
`14· ·1976.· I worked as a contract laborer for about six
`15· ·months, and in May of 1977 I became a TRW employee.
`16· · · · Q.· And how long did you work at TRW for?
`17· · · · A.· In all, I worked at TRW and Northrop
`18· ·Grumman, which acquired TRW, about 31 years.· In the
`19· ·middle I left and did a start-up company with some
`20· ·colleagues, did that for seven years, went public,
`21· ·etcetera, etcetera, and then wanted to work on big
`22· ·projects again and returned to TRW.· So the 31 years
`23· ·includes some time before the start-up company and
`24· ·after the company.
`25· · · · Q.· When did you work on that start-up company?
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`Case 2:17-cv-00514-JRG Document 224-7 Filed 02/21/19 Page 17 of 238 PageID #: 19359
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`DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018
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`·1· · · · A.· We left TRW to start the company in May of
`·2· ·1980.
`·3· · · · Q.· What was the name of the company?
`·4· · · · A.· CompuNet was the original name.· We were --
`·5· ·we merged with another small company called Titan.
`·6· ·Titan was the name that was retained for many, many
`·7· ·years.
`·8· · · · Q.· What did that company do?
`·9· · · · A.· Was a defense contractor in a small way.
`10· · · · Q.· It went public you said?
`11· · · · A.· We actually went public by buying a company
`12· ·that was already public, but -- but by the time I
`13· ·left the company we were a publicly-traded company.
`14· · · · Q.· What company did it buy?
`15· · · · A.· I think it was called EMM Sesco.· They made
`16· ·radiation hard memory for spacecraft.
`17· · · · Q.· And then about what year did you return to
`18· ·Northrop Grumman after that?
`19· · · · A.· I believe it was January of 1988.· It was
`20· ·still TRW in those days, of course.
`21· · · · Q.· So while you were at -- let me ask you a
`22· ·different question.
`23· · · · · · What year did TRW become Northrop Grumman?
`24· · · · · · MS. BI:· Objection to form.
`25· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· I should answer?
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`Case 2:17-cv-00514-JRG Document 224-7 Filed 02/21/19 Page 18 of 238 PageID #: 19360
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`Page 17
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`DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018
`·1· · · · · · MS. BI:· Yeah.
`·2· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· Sorry.
`·3· · · · · · It was near the end of 2002.
`·4· ·BY MR. RUBINO:
`·5· · · · Q.· How long were you at Northrop Grumman for?
`·6· · · · A.· From whenever the deal closed, which I
`·7· ·think was November or December of 2002, until my
`·8· ·retirement on December 31st, 2015.
`·9· · · · Q.· Are you familiar with a product called
`10· ·FBCB2?
`11· · · · A.· If by that you mean the -- the U.S. Army
`12· ·contract that is properly called Force XXI Battle
`13· ·Command, Brigade and Below, yes, I am familiar with
`14· ·that product.· FBCB2 is an abbreviation that is
`15· ·often used for that, and there's some other
`16· ·nicknames that are used as well.
`17· · · · Q.· What other nicknames are used?
`18· · · · A.· Sometimes it's called the Applique.
`19· ·Sometimes it's called the Digital Battlefield.· And
`20· ·another common nickname is the Blue Force Tracker.
`21· · · · Q.· When did you first become involved with
`22· ·FBCB2?
`23· · · · A.· So I was working at TRW and I was working
`24· ·as the chief engineer on another U.S. Army contract.
`25· ·We conceived of an idea, and we started a company-
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`Case 2:17-cv-00514-JRG Document 224-7 Filed 02/21/19 Page 19 of 238 PageID #: 19361
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`DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018
`Page 18
`·1· ·funded research project in 1992 that we didn't call
`·2· ·FBCB2, but was the idea that would lead to FBCB2.
`·3· ·In summer of 1993 we had an opportunity to
`·4· ·demonstrate the preliminary results of that
`·5· ·company-funded research project to some people in
`·6· ·the Army, and we engaged in discussions with Army
`·7· ·people about this idea and encouraged them that they
`·8· ·should see if a system like this would be useful and
`·9· ·meet their needs.
`10· · · · · · And in 1994, I believe in May or June of
`11· ·1994, the U.S. Army issued what they call a Request
`12· ·for Proposal for a contract that they then called
`13· ·Force XXI Battle Command, Brigade and Below, or what
`14· ·we call FBCB2.· And we, the company TRW, we made a
`15· ·formal bid decision that we would prepare a proposal
`16· ·in response to that offer from the government to
`17· ·prepare a competitive proposal.
`18· · · · · · I was, in fact, designated as the proposal
`19· ·manager within the company.· One of my
`20· ·responsibilities as the proposal manager was to
`21· ·choose the person who would be named as our
`22· ·candidate program manager in the event that we won.
`23· ·I generated a list of two names, one of which was
`24· ·mine, one of which was another person, and I asked
`25· ·my boss to go and meet with the general in charge of
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`Case 2:17-cv-00514-JRG Document 224-7 Filed 02/21/19 Page 20 of 238 PageID #: 19362
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`DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018
`·1· ·that part of the Army.
`·2· · · · · · Before you submit a proposal, the way
`·3· ·government contracts work is they encouraged
`·4· ·potential bidders to come in and discuss ideas about
`·5· ·their potential offers so that they can have
`·6· ·feedback from the Army.· The Army finds that
`·7· ·advantageous, I believe, because that allows them to
`·8· ·get offers that more suit their needs.
`·9· · · · · · And one of the questions that I asked my
`10· ·supervisor to go and discuss with this general was
`11· ·my list of two names of candidates of who should be
`12· ·the program manager.· My boss came back and said
`13· ·the -- the general was enthusiastic and unambiguous
`14· ·that it should be me, so we made the decision to bid
`15· ·me as the program manager.· So after we won the
`16· ·contract, which was announced early January of 1995,
`17· ·I became the start-up program manager for the
`18· ·project at TRW.· So I had very long experience with
`19· ·the program.
`20· · · · · · I then served as the full-time program
`21· ·manager for the project for about two and a half
`22· ·years, at which point I resumed my previous position
`23· ·as the director of the business unit that the
`24· ·program reported to.· I had stepped down temporarily
`25· ·from that position to run the program, hired
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`Case 2:17-cv-00514-JRG Document 224-7 Filed 02/21/19 Page 21 of 238 PageID #: 19363
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`DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018
`Page 20
`·1· ·somebody else to run the program, but the program
`·2· ·continued to report directly to me until 2001 or so,
`·3· ·at which point I took a different kind of job in the
`·4· ·company, but still had significant involvement in
`·5· ·the program, especially starting in late 2002.
`·6· · · · · · As you will no doubt remember, on September
`·7· ·11th, 2001 there was a series of terrorist incidents
`·8· ·in the United States and a few days later the
`·9· ·president of the United States issued a public
`10· ·statement telling the U.S. military to prepare for
`11· ·the potential military operations.· A few months
`12· ·later, I believe it was in May of 2002, but it
`13· ·was -- it was -- I'm not exactly sure of the date --
`14· ·I got a call from a general officer in the Pentagon
`15· ·saying that the Army had now been formally directed
`16· ·by the president to prepare for potential military
`17· ·operations in Afghanistan and Iraq.· Just potential
`18· ·military operations at this point.· But they wanted
`19· ·me by name to be what they called the information
`20· ·architect for those op -- the land portions of those
`21· ·operations.
`22· · · · · · So I got very deeply involved with FBCB2
`23· ·again starting May or June of 2002 and maintained a
`24· ·very significant relationship with FBCB2 till heavy
`25· ·combat operations in Iraq were completed and a
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`Case 2:17-cv-00514-JRG Document 224-7 Filed 02/21/19 Page 22 of 238 PageID #: 19364
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`DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018
`Page 21
`·1· ·little bit after, so probably in 2004, maybe to the
`·2· ·beginning of 2005.· Thereafter, my involvement with
`·3· ·the program was a little more periodic and
`·4· ·infrequent.· When they had an issue or questions,
`·5· ·they might consult me.
`·6· · · · · · 2007 or thereabouts there was a major
`·7· ·software redesign contemplated for the program and
`·8· ·for a few months I got involved in the program again
`·9· ·at the customer's request.· And that was kind of the
`10· ·last major interaction I had with the program,
`11· ·program -- I think Northrop Grumman's contract ended
`12· ·sometime around 2010.
`13· · · · · · So I had very long personal involvement
`14· ·over many years in several different roles.
`15· · · · Q.· So I think my question was when you first
`16· ·became involved, so, you know --
`17· · · · A.· I thought -- I understood you to be -- what
`18· ·was your involvement with the program, so...
`19· · · · Q.· So safe to say that you had a very
`20· ·longstanding and in-depth relationship and
`21· ·understanding of the FBCB2 program, at least from
`22· ·1992 through 2005; correct?
`23· · · · A.· That's correct.
`24· · · · Q.· And you were retained by Apple in this case
`25· ·to provide information about that involvement in the
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`Case 2:17-cv-00514-JRG Document 224-7 Filed 02/21/19 Page 23 of 238 PageID #: 19365
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`DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018
`Page 22
`·1· ·FBCB2 program and your knowledge about the FBCB2
`·2· ·program from that period of 1992 through at least
`·3· ·2005; correct?
`·4· · · · A.· It was -- I would say it's slightly
`·5· ·different.· I was retained by the law firm
`·6· ·representing Apple to use that knowledge to perform
`·7· ·an examination for them of certain patents.· But
`·8· ·certainly my knowledge of FBCB2, in my estimation,
`·9· ·was probably cardinal to their decision to hire me.
`10· · · · Q.· And so you submitted an expert report in
`11· ·this case detailing your understanding of FBCB2 from
`12· ·1992 through at least 2005; correct?
`13· · · · · · MS. BI:· Objection to form.
`14· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· Yes.
`15· ·BY MR. RUBINO:
`16· · · · Q.· And in that report you included references
`17· ·to documents; right?
`18· · · · A.· Yes.
`19· · · · Q.· You include references to some patents;
`20· ·right?
`21· · · · A.· Yes.
`22· · · · Q.· Included everything you thought was
`23· ·relevant to that analysis; right?
`24· · · · A.· Exactly.
`25· · · · Q.· Any reason why you can't provide truthful
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`Case 2:17-cv-00514-JRG Document 224-7 Filed 02/21/19 Page 24 of 238 PageID #: 19366
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`DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018
`·1· ·and accurate testimony today?
`·2· · · · A.· I'm sorry, I didn't hear you very well.
`·3· · · · Q.· Is there any reason why you can't provide
`·4· ·truthful and accurate testimony today?
`·5· · · · A.· No, sir, I expect to provide truthful and
`·6· ·accurate testimony today.
`·7· · · · Q.· Not taking any medications or anything;
`·8· ·right?
`·9· · · · A.· I take medications, but none that would
`10· ·impact my ability to answer properly.
`11· · · · Q.· Have you ever been deposed before?
`12· · · · A.· Yes, sir.
`13· · · · Q.· In what context?
`14· · · · A.· Just once about 25 years ago in conjunction
`15· ·with my employment.
`16· · · · Q.· Why?
`17· · · · · · MS. BI:· Objection to form.
`18· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· I was the chief engineer on a
`19· ·large U.S. Army contract, and we had a contractual
`20· ·dispute with the U.S. Army contracting agency, and
`21· ·that led to our company filing a lawsuit against the
`22· ·U.S. Army and the, I think, the U.S. Court of
`23· ·Contract Claims, some venue, and I was deposed in
`24· ·conjunction with that activity.
`25· ·///
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`Case 2:17-cv-00514-JRG Document 224-7 Filed 02/21/19 Page 25 of 238 PageID #: 19367
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`DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018
`·1· ·BY MR. RUBINO:
`·2· · · · Q.· And that was for TRW?
`·3· · · · A.· Yes, sir.
`·4· · · · Q.· Did you win?
`·5· · · · A.· The government settled a day or two before
`·6· ·the trial was to begin by offering us one hundred
`·7· ·percent of what we asked for.
`·8· · · · Q.· And you've never been deposed in the
`·9· ·context of a patent case; right?
`10· · · · A.· That's correct, I've never been -- as far
`11· ·as I can remember, that is the only deposition I've
`12· ·ever given in my life.
`13· · · · Q.· Have you ever testi
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