Case 2:17-cv-00513-JRG Document 258-9 Filed 01/04/19 Page 1 of 35 PageID #: 16654
`Case 2:17-cv-00513-JRG Document 258-9 Filed 01/04/19 Page 1 of 35 PageID #: 16654
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`EXHIBIT 9
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`EXHIBIT 9
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`Case 2:17-cv-00513-JRG Document 258-9 Filed 01/04/19 Page 1 of 35 PageID #: 16654
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`EXHIBIT 9
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`EXHIBIT 9
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`Case 2:17-cv-00513-JRG Document 258-9 Filed 01/04/19 Page 2 of 35 PageID #: 16655
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`DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018
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`·
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`·1· · · · · · · ·UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
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`·2· · · · · · · CENTRAL DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA
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`·3
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`·4· ·AGIS SOFTWARE DEVELOPMENT LLC,· · )
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·) Civil Action No.
`·5· · · · · · · · · · ·Plaintiff,· · · ) 2:17-cv-513-JRG
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·) (LEAD CASE)
`·6· · · · · · · vs.· · · · · · · · · · ) Civil Action No.
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·) 2:17-cv-516-JRG
`·7· ·APPLE, INC.,· · · · · · · · · · · ) Pages 1 to 237
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·)
`·8· · · · · · · · · · ·Defendant.· · · )
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·)
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`14· · · · · · ·DEPOSITION OF DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL
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`15· · · · · · · · · · · · ·TAKEN ON
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`16· · · · · · · ·WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 14, 2018
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`24· ·Reported by:· PHILIP D. NORRIS
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`25· · · · · · · · ·CSR NO. 4980
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`Epiq Court Reporting Solutions - New YorkEpiq Court Reporting Solutions - New York
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`1-800-325-33761-800-325-3376
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`Case 2:17-cv-00513-JRG Document 258-9 Filed 01/04/19 Page 3 of 35 PageID #: 16656
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`DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018
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`Page 2
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`·1· · · · · · Deposition of Dr. Neil G. Siegel, taken on
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`·2· ·behalf of Plaintiff, at 3635 Fashion Way, Torrance,
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`·3· ·California, on Wednesday, November 14, 2018, at 9:23
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`·4· ·a.m., before Philip D. Norris, CSR No. 4980,
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`·5· ·pursuant to Notice.
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`·6
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`·7· ·APPEARANCES:
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`·8
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`·9· ·FOR THE PLAINTIFF:
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`10· · · · · · BROWN RUDNICK
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`11· · · · · · BY:· VINCENT RUBINO, ESQ.
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`12· · · · · · · · ·ENRIQUE W. ITURRALDE, ESQ.
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`13· · · · · · 7 Times Square
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`14· · · · · · New York, New York 10036
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`15· · · · · · (212) 209-4800
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`16· · · · · · Email:· Vrubino@brownrudnick.com
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`17· · · · · · · · · · Eiturralde@brownrudnick.com
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`18· ·FOR THE DEFENDANT APPLE, INC.:
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`19· · · · · · DESMARAIS, LLP
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`20· · · · · · BY:· KATHRYN BI, ESQ.
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`21· · · · · · · · ·AMEET A. MODI, ESQ.
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`22· · · · · · 230 Park Avenue
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`23· · · · · · New York, New York 10169
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`24· · · · · · (212) 351-3406
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`25· · · · · · Email:· Amodi@desmaraisllp.com
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`Case 2:17-cv-00513-JRG Document 258-9 Filed 01/04/19 Page 4 of 35 PageID #: 16657
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`DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018
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`Page 3
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`·1· ·APPEARANCES:
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`·2
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`·3· ·FOR THE DEFENDANT HTC CORPORATION:
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`·4· · · · · · PERKINS COIE
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`·5· · · · · · BY:· MIGUEL J. BOMBACH, ESQ.
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`·6· · · · · · 11988 El Camino Real, Suite 350
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`·7· · · · · · San Diego, California 92130
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`·8· · · · · · Email:· Mbombach@perkinscoie.com
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`·9· ·FOR THE DEFENDANT LG ELECTRONICS:
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`10· · · · · · ARNOLD & PORTER
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`11· · · · · · BY:· JUSTIN J. CHI, ESQ.
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`12· · · · · · 777 South Figueroa Street, 44th Floor
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`13· · · · · · Los Angeles, California 90017
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`14· · · · · · (213) 243-4030
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`15· · · · · · Email: Justin.chi@arnoldporter.com
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`16· ·ALSO PRESENT:
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`17· · · · · · THE VIDEOGRAPHER:· RENEE MAYFIELD
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`Epiq Court Reporting Solutions - New YorkEpiq Court Reporting Solutions - New York
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`Case 2:17-cv-00513-JRG Document 258-9 Filed 01/04/19 Page 5 of 35 PageID #: 16658
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`DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018
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`Page 4
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · · ·I N D E X
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`·2
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`·3· ·WITNESS· · · · · · · ·EXAMINATION· · · · · · · ·PAGE
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`·4· ·Dr. Neil G. Siegel· (By Mr. Rubino)· · · · · · · · 7
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`·5
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`·6· · · · · · · · · · · · E X H I B I T S
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`·7· ·NO.· · · · · PAGE· · DESCRIPTION
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`·8· ·Exhibit 1· · · 53· · Expert Report of Neil Siegel,
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`·9· · · · · · · · · · · · 266 pages
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`10· ·Exhibit 2· · ·105· · MBA Professional Report, Bates
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`11· · · · · · · · · · · · numbers APL-AGIS_00012804 to
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`12· · · · · · · · · · · · 12876
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`13· ·Exhibit 3· · ·145· · Article from Signal Magazine,
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`14· · · · · · · · · · · · "Little Computer Produces Big
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`15· · · · · · · · · · · · Results," four pages
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`16· ·Exhibit 4· · ·150· · Army Programs, Force XXI Battle
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`17· · · · · · · · · · · · Command, Brigade & Below
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`18· · · · · · · · · · · · (FBCB2), pages 79 and 80
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`19· ·Exhibit 5· · ·166· · Blue Force Tracking, Bates
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`20· · · · · · · · · · · · numbers APL-AGIS_00012877 to
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`21· · · · · · · · · · · · 896
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`22· ·Exhibit 6· · ·179· · Placeholder, SIEGEL000484
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`23· ·Exhibit 7· · ·182· · "Army to upgrade Land Warrior
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`24· · · · · · · · · · · · system with blue-force,"
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`25· · · · · · · · · · · · five pages
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`Case 2:17-cv-00513-JRG Document 258-9 Filed 01/04/19 Page 6 of 35 PageID #: 16659
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`DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018
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`Page 5
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·I N D E X
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`·2· · · · · · · · · · · · E X H I B I T S
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`·3· ·NO.· · · · · PAGE· · DESCRIPTION
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`·4· ·Exhibit 8· · ·206· · Appendix A, Attachment 8B,
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`·5· · · · · · · · · · · · Bates number SIEGL000301 to 302
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`·6· ·Exhibit 9· · ·223· · Copy of U.S. Patent No
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`·7· · · · · · · · · · · · 8,280,423, 20 pages
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`·8· ·Exhibit 10· · 223· · Docket No. 38-0021
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`·9· · · · · · · · · · · · signature page
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`Case 2:17-cv-00513-JRG Document 258-9 Filed 01/04/19 Page 7 of 35 PageID #: 16660
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`DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018
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`Page 62
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`·1· · · · · · MS. BI:· Objection to form.
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`·2· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· I have done all the work
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`·3· ·described in the 70 or so hours that I've billed.
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`·4· ·That is absolutely correct.· Is the question about
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`·5· ·work rate?· I just completed writing a 600-page
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`·6· ·engineering textbook in about 250 hours.· I don't
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`·7· ·know if that's fast or if that's slow, but that's
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`·8· ·the rate at which I work.
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`·9· ·BY MR. RUBINO:
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`10· · · · Q.· Prior to your work in this case, did you
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`11· ·know what a person of ordinary skill in the art is?
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`12· · · · A.· I had heard that term.
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`13· · · · Q.· Had you heard of the term "claim
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`14· ·limitation"?
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`15· · · · A.· No.· I'd heard the term "claims."
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`16· · · · Q.· So throughout your report you refer to
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`17· ·limitations of claims; right?
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`18· · · · A.· (Witness nods head.)
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`19· · · · Q.· So is that a term that you came up with
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`20· ·yourself or is that something the attorneys told
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`21· ·you, you should say?
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`22· · · · A.· No, that was part of my job instruction, to
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`23· ·understand some legal term -- make sure I understood
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`24· ·some legal terminology.· I am not an attorney.
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`25· · · · Q.· And so throughout -- throughout your report
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`Case 2:17-cv-00513-JRG Document 258-9 Filed 01/04/19 Page 8 of 35 PageID #: 16661
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`DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018
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`Page 63
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`·1· ·you refer in several places to some patents of which
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`·2· ·you are the named inventor; right?
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`·3· · · · A.· There are a handful of patents to which I
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`·4· ·make reference.
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`·5· · · · Q.· How many patents?
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`·6· · · · A.· I believe four, but it might be five.
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`·7· ·About that number.· Not 10.
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`·8· · · · Q.· And so I'd like you to take a look at page
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`·9· ·245 of your report, paragraph 467.
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`10· · · · A.· 467?
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`11· · · · Q.· Uh-huh.
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`12· · · · A.· Okay.
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`13· · · · Q.· Do you see the paragraph -- do you see the
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`14· ·paragraph 467?
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`15· · · · A.· I do, sir.
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`16· · · · Q.· And you see this paragraph falls under
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`17· ·claim limitation 2 of claim 24 of AGIS '251 patent;
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`18· ·right?
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`19· · · · A.· Right.· H and 262, it indicates that we're
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`20· ·talking about claim 24 of the '251 patent.· And '467
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`21· ·appears to fall under that heading.
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`22· · · · Q.· And it's specifically with regard to the
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`23· ·claim limitation "receiving a message in the second
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`24· ·device wherein the message relates to joining a
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`25· ·group" --
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`Case 2:17-cv-00513-JRG Document 258-9 Filed 01/04/19 Page 9 of 35 PageID #: 16662
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`DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018
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`Page 64
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`·1· · · · · · (Discussion held off the record.)
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`·2· ·BY MR. RUBINO:
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`·3· · · · Q.· So specifically with regard to the claim
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`·4· ·limitation: "receiving a message from a second
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`·5· ·device wherein the message relates to joining a
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`·6· ·group based on receiving the message from the second
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`·7· ·device participating in the group"; right?
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`·8· · · · A.· Right, I see that towards the top of page
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`·9· ·244.
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`10· · · · Q.· And so in paragraph 467 you discuss U.S.
`in paragraph 467 you discuss U.S.10· · · · Q.· And so
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`11· ·Patent No. 6,212,559; correct?
`11· ·Patent No. 6,212,559; correct?
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`12· · · · A.· Correct.
`12· · · · A.· Correct.
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`13· · · · Q.· And that's part of your analysis of this
`13· · · · Q.· And that's part of your analysis of this
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`14· ·claim limitation; correct?
`14· ·claim limitation; correct?
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`15· · · · A.· Uh-huh.15· · · · A.· Uh-huh.
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`16· · · · Q.· And so you've considered that patent as
`16· · · · Q.· And so you've considered that patent as
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`17· ·part of your anticipation in obviousness analysis;
`17· ·part of your anticipation in obviousness analysis;
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`18· ·correct?
`18· ·correct?
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`19· · · · A.· It's part of it, yeah.
`19· · · · A.· It's part of it, yeah.
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`20· · · · Q.· And again, if we look at paragraph 485,
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`21· ·which is for claim limitation 8 of the '251 patent,
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`22· ·"wherein the first device does not have access to
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`23· ·respective Internet protocol addresses of the second
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`24· ·devices," you again refer to the '559 patent; right?
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`25· · · · A.· In paragraph 485, yes.
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`Case 2:17-cv-00513-JRG Document 258-9 Filed 01/04/19 Page 10 of 35 PageID #: 16663
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`DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018
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`Page 65
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`·1· · · · Q.· So you've again used the '559 patent as
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`·2· ·support for your obviousness and anticipation
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`·3· ·analysis of this claim element of the '251 patent;
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`·4· ·correct?
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`·5· · · · A.· As a portion of it, correct.
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`·6· · · · Q.· If you look at -- if you look at paragraph
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`·7· ·154 of the report, do you see the discussion of
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`·8· ·claim 40 of the '838 patent?
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`·9· · · · A.· Correct.
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`10· · · · Q.· And you refer to a U.S. Patent No.
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`11· ·7,278,023; is that right?
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`12· · · · A.· Uh-huh.
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`13· · · · Q.· And is that another one of your patents?
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`14· · · · A.· Hang on a second, please.· Can you pull
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`15· ·that one, that one for me?· I believe it is one of
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`16· ·mine, but I don't happen to have that one in front
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`17· ·of me.· But if I have, I'm not finding it.
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`18· · · · · · MS. BI:· Do you have a copy of --
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`19· · · · · · MR. RUBINO:· We'll get to it, you know, but
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`20· ·I'm asking --
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`21· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· The context of the reference,
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`22· ·yes, I believe that's a patent that has my name, but
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`23· ·other people's names on it.
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`24· · · · · · MR. RUBINO:· Okay.· Fair enough.
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`25· · · · Q.· So my question's really just the following.
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`Case 2:17-cv-00513-JRG Document 258-9 Filed 01/04/19 Page 11 of 35 PageID #: 16664
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`DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018
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`Page 66
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`·1· ·Okay?· With regard to paragraph 154 --
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`·2· · · · · · You see 154; right?
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`·3· · · · A.· Uh-huh.
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`·4· · · · Q.· -- you refer to the '023 patent in that
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`·5· ·paragraph; right?
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`·6· · · · A.· Uh-huh.
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`·7· · · · Q.· And you rely on that patent in that
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`·8· ·paragraph as part of your anticipation and
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`·9· ·obviousness analysis for claim 40 of the '838
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`10· ·patent; correct?
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`11· · · · A.· Correct.
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`12· · · · Q.· I'd like you to take a look at paragraph
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`13· ·161.
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`14· · · · A.· Yes, sir.· I'm there.
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`15· · · · Q.· And again you discuss the '559 patent in
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`16· ·this paragraph; right?
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`17· · · · A.· That is correct.
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`18· · · · Q.· And to confirm, you rely on the '559 patent
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`19· ·in this paragraph as part of your anticipation and
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`20· ·obviousness analysis for claim 54 of the '838
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`21· ·patent; correct?
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`22· · · · A.· Yes.· Paragraph 158 where it's talking
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`23· ·about -- sorry, J 156 introduces claim 54 of the
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`24· ·'838 patent, and paragraph 161 is a subparagraph of
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`25· ·that argument.
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`Case 2:17-cv-00513-JRG Document 258-9 Filed 01/04/19 Page 12 of 35 PageID #: 16665
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`DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018
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`Page 67
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`·1· · · · Q.· If you can take a look at paragraph 186.
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`·2· · · · A.· Yes, sir, I'm there.
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`·3· · · · Q.· So this paragraph also discusses the '559
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`·4· ·patent; right?
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`·5· · · · A.· It names the '559 patent, yes.
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`·6· · · · Q.· And you rely on the '559 patent in this
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`·7· ·paragraph in support of your anticipation and
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`·8· ·obviousness analysis with regard to claim 1 of the
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`·9· ·'829 patent; correct?
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`10· · · · A.· That is correct.
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`11· · · · Q.· I'd like you to take a look at paragraph
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`12· ·191.
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`13· · · · A.· Yes, I'm there.
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`14· · · · Q.· Do you see a reference in that paragraph to
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`15· ·the '840 patent?
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`16· · · · A.· Yes, I do.
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`17· · · · Q.· And that's U.S. Patent No. 5,672,840;
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`18· ·right?
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`19· · · · A.· Just a second.· You said 5,672,840?
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`20· · · · Q.· Yes.
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`21· · · · A.· Yes, uh-huh.
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`22· · · · Q.· And so you discuss that patent in this
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`23· ·paragraph 191; right?
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`24· · · · A.· Correct.
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`25· · · · Q.· And with regard to -- that's with regard to
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`Case 2:17-cv-00513-JRG Document 258-9 Filed 01/04/19 Page 13 of 35 PageID #: 16666
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`DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018
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`Page 68
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`·1· ·claim limitation 5 of claim 1 of the '829 patent;
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`·2· ·right?
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`·3· · · · A.· Let me find my way back here, please.
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`·4· ·Right, claim limitation 5 of claim 1 of the '829
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`·5· ·patent.
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`·6· · · · Q.· So in your analysis of claim limitation 5
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`·7· ·of the eight -- ask that one more time.
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`·8· · · · · · So I'm going to start again.· Okay?
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`·9· · · · · · So you see paragraph 191; right?
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`10· · · · A.· Correct.
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`11· · · · Q.· So in paragraph 191 you rely on the '840
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`12· ·patent in your anticipation or obviousness analysis
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`13· ·with regard to claim 1 of the '829 patent; correct?
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`14· · · · A.· I believe we're talking -- yeah, claim 1,
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`15· ·claim 5 -- yeah, claim limitation 5, correct.
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`16· · · · Q.· And at least with regard to that fifth
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`17· ·limitation, you only have this one paragraph in
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`18· ·support of your analysis; right?
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`19· · · · · · MS. BI:· Object to form.
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`20· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· The report stands as it is.
`
`21· ·BY MR. RUBINO:
`
`22· · · · Q.· You don't refer back to any other
`
`23· ·paragraphs.· That's the entirety of your support for
`
`24· ·this claim limitation; correct?
`
`25· · · · A.· There are citations to many other documents
`
`
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`Case 2:17-cv-00513-JRG Document 258-9 Filed 01/04/19 Page 14 of 35 PageID #: 16667
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`Page 69
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`·1· ·in the paragraph.
`
`·2· · · · Q.· But you don't have any other citations or
`
`·3· ·references to other portions of your report; right?
`
`·4· · · · A.· Aren't the citations considered portions of
`
`·5· ·the report?
`
`·6· · · · Q.· I'm asking about other paragraphs in your
`
`·7· ·report.· This is the only paragraph in your report
`
`·8· ·where you discuss claim limitation 5 of claim 1 of
`
`·9· ·the '829 patent; correct?
`
`10· · · · A.· Yes.
`
`11· · · · Q.· And in this paragraph you rely on the '840
`
`12· ·patent in support of your analysis with regard to
`
`13· ·this claim limitation of claim 1 of the '829 patent;
`
`14· ·correct?
`
`15· · · · A.· As a part of my analysis, yes.
`
`16· · · · Q.· Take a look at paragraph 194, please.
`
`17· · · · A.· I'm there.
`
`18· · · · Q.· Do you see a reference in paragraph 194 to
`
`19· ·the '023 patent?
`
`20· · · · A.· I do.
`
`21· · · · Q.· And so is it fair to say that you rely on
`
`22· ·the '023 patent in your invalidity analysis with
`
`23· ·regard to anticipation or obviousness of limitation
`
`24· ·6 of claim 1 of the '829 patent?
`
`25· · · · A.· Yes, as a portion of my analysis.
`
`
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`Case 2:17-cv-00513-JRG Document 258-9 Filed 01/04/19 Page 15 of 35 PageID #: 16668
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`Page 70
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`·1· · · · Q.· Can you look at paragraph 216, please?
`
`·2· · · · A.· Two one six?
`
`·3· · · · Q.· Two one six, yes.
`
`·4· · · · A.· I'm there.
`
`·5· · · · Q.· Do you see a reference to the '559 patent?
`
`·6· · · · A.· I do, sir.
`
`·7· · · · Q.· And this is with regard to claim 30 of the
`
`·8· ·'829 patent; correct?
`
`·9· · · · A.· Yes.
`
`10· · · · Q.· And so you rely on the '559 patent with
`
`11· ·regard to your anticipation or obviousness analysis
`
`12· ·of claim 30 of the '829 patent; correct?
`
`13· · · · A.· As a portion of that analysis, correct.
`
`14· · · · Q.· Can you look at paragraph 222, please?
`
`15· · · · A.· I'm there.
`
`16· · · · Q.· Do you see a reference there to the '559
`
`17· ·patent?
`
`18· · · · A.· I do, sir.
`
`19· · · · Q.· So is it fair to say that you rely on the
`
`20· ·'559 patent in your anticipation or obviousness
`
`21· ·analysis with regard to claim 34 of the '829 patent?
`
`22· · · · A.· For claim limitation 2, yes, I rely on it
`
`23· ·as a portion of the analysis.
`
`24· · · · Q.· Take a look at paragraph 227, please.
`
`25· · · · A.· I'm there.
`
`
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`Page 71
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`·1· · · · Q.· Do you see a reference there to the '840
`
`·2· ·patent?
`
`·3· · · · A.· I do.
`
`·4· · · · Q.· And so you rely on the '840 patent in your
`
`·5· ·anticipation or obviousness analysis with regard to
`
`·6· ·claim limitation 5 of the -- of claim 34 of the '829
`
`·7· ·patent; correct?
`
`·8· · · · A.· Correct, for a portion of that analysis.
`
`·9· · · · Q.· And you have the same answer with regard to
`
`10· ·the '023 patent for claim limitation 6 of this claim
`
`11· ·at paragraph 230; correct?
`
`12· · · · · · MS. BI:· Objection to form.
`
`13· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· Could you ask your question
`
`14· ·again, please?
`
`15· · · · · · MR. RUBINO:· Sure.
`
`16· · · · Q.· If you look at paragraph 230 --
`
`17· · · · · · Do you see that?
`
`18· · · · A.· Yes, I do.
`
`19· · · · Q.· -- do you see a reference to the '023
`
`20· ·patent?
`
`21· · · · A.· I do, sir.
`
`22· · · · Q.· So you rely on the '023 patent in
`
`23· ·connection with your anticipation or obviousness
`
`24· ·analysis of claim 34 of the '829 patent; correct?
`
`25· · · · A.· For claim 34, the '829 patent, claim
`
`
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`Page 72
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`·1· ·limitation 6, I rely on that patent as a portion of
`
`·2· ·my analysis.
`
`·3· · · · Q.· If you look at paragraph 237, you rely on
`
`·4· ·the '559 patent with regard to your anticipation or
`
`·5· ·obviousness analysis of claim 35 of the '829 patent;
`
`·6· ·correct?
`
`·7· · · · A.· Yes, claim 35 starts at paragraph 231, and
`
`·8· ·it was 237 is the paragraph number you're asking
`
`·9· ·about?
`
`10· · · · Q.· Yes.
`
`11· · · · A.· Right.· And that is under claim limitation
`
`12· ·2, so yes, I depend on the '559 patent for a portion
`
`13· ·of that analysis.
`
`14· · · · Q.· Take a look at paragraph 244, please.
`
`15· · · · A.· Sure.· I'm there.
`
`16· · · · Q.· Is it fair to say that you rely on the '840
`
`17· ·patent as part of your analysis regarding
`
`18· ·anticipation or obviousness of claim limitation 3 of
`
`19· ·the -- of claim 35 of the '829 patent?
`
`20· · · · A.· You were asking about paragraph 244?
`
`21· · · · Q.· Yes.
`
`22· · · · A.· I cite the '840 patent as part of my
`
`23· ·analysis there, correct.
`
`24· · · · Q.· If you look at paragraph 250, see a
`
`25· ·reference to the '023 patent; correct?
`
`
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`Case 2:17-cv-00513-JRG Document 258-9 Filed 01/04/19 Page 18 of 35 PageID #: 16671
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`Page 73
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`·1· · · · A.· Yes, sir, I see it.
`
`·2· · · · Q.· And so with regard to paragraph 250, you
`
`·3· ·rely on the '023 patent as part of your anticipation
`
`·4· ·or obviousness analysis of claim 35 of the '829
`
`·5· ·patent; correct?
`
`·6· · · · A.· Remind me which paragraph number we're
`
`·7· ·talking about.
`
`·8· · · · Q.· 250.
`
`·9· · · · A.· 250.· Yes, I rely on the '023 patent for a
`
`10· ·portion of that analysis.
`
`11· · · · Q.· Can you look at paragraph 267, please?
`
`12· · · · A.· I'm there.
`
`13· · · · Q.· Do you see a reference to the '559 patent?
`
`14· · · · A.· I do, sir.
`
`15· · · · Q.· So to confirm, you rely on the '559 patent
`
`16· ·with regard to your anticipation or obviousness
`
`17· ·analysis of claim 68 of the '829 patent; correct?
`
`18· · · · A.· I'm trying to find the place where we start
`
`19· ·working on claim 68, and I'm not finding it, so give
`
`20· ·me a moment, please.· Claim 68 of the '829 patent,
`
`21· ·and you were asking about, was it, 265?
`
`22· · · · Q.· Yes.
`
`23· · · · A.· Sorry, I'm not seeing a reference to a
`
`24· ·patent --
`
`25· · · · Q.· 257.· Paragraph 257.· 267.
`
`
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`Case 2:17-cv-00513-JRG Document 258-9 Filed 01/04/19 Page 19 of 35 PageID #: 16672
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`DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018
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`Page 74
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`·1· · · · A.· 267.· I apologize.· Too much to keep in my
`
`·2· ·head at once.· Yes, I see I reference to '559 in
`
`·3· ·that paragraph, and yes, claim -- that is part of my
`
`·4· ·analysis for claim 68 of the '829 patent.
`
`·5· · · · Q.· Can you take a look at paragraph 274,
`
`·6· ·please?
`
`·7· · · · A.· Of course.· I'm there.
`
`·8· · · · Q.· Do you see a reference to the '840 patent?
`
`·9· · · · A.· I do, sir.
`
`10· · · · Q.· And so to confirm, you rely on the '840
`
`11· ·patent as part of your anticipation or obviousness
`
`12· ·analysis with regard to claim limitation 5 of claim
`
`13· ·6 of the '829 patent; correct?
`
`14· · · · A.· Paragraph 274, correct, I rely on the '840
`
`15· ·patent for a portion of that analysis.
`
`16· · · · Q.· If you look at paragraph 280, do you see a
`
`17· ·reference to the '023 patent?
`
`18· · · · A.· Yes, I do, sir.
`
`19· · · · Q.· So do you rely on the '023 patent with
`
`20· ·regard to your anticipation or obviousness analysis
`
`21· ·of claim 68 of the '829 patent?
`
`22· · · · A.· Yes, claim limitation 6, I rely on that
`
`23· ·particular patent for a portion of that analysis.
`
`24· · · · Q.· If you take a look at paragraph 303, do you
`
`25· ·see a reference to the '023 patent there as well?
`
`
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`Page 75
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`·1· · · · A.· Let me get there, please.· 303, '023
`
`·2· ·patent, yes, I see that reference.
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`·3· · · · Q.· So do you rely on the '023 patent with
`
`·4· ·regard to anticipation or obviousness analysis as it
`
`·5· ·pertains to claim limitation 5 of claim 1 of the
`
`·6· ·'055 patent?
`
`·7· · · · A.· Yes, sir.· I use the '023 patent in that
`
`·8· ·paragraph as a portion of my argument.
`
`·9· · · · Q.· Take a look at paragraph 324.· Do you see a
`
`10· ·reference to the '023 patent there as well?
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`11· · · · A.· Three twenty what?
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`12· · · · Q.· Four.
`
`13· · · · A.· Four.· Thank you.· Yes, I see the '023
`
`14· ·patent referenced there, correct.
`
`15· · · · Q.· And so is it fair to say that you rely on
`
`16· ·the '023 patent in your analysis with regard to
`
`17· ·claim 24 of the '055 patent?
`
`18· · · · A.· Claim 24 from G 319, and we were talking
`
`19· ·about paragraph three four -- so we're talking about
`
`20· ·claim limitation 1.· Yes, I rely on the '023 patent
`
`21· ·to form a portion of that analysis.
`
`22· · · · Q.· Could you take a look at paragraph 345?
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`23· · · · A.· Yes, sir, I found it.
`
`24· · · · Q.· You see a reference there to the '023
`
`25· ·patent?
`
`
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`Case 2:17-cv-00513-JRG Document 258-9 Filed 01/04/19 Page 21 of 35 PageID #: 16674
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`DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018
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`Page 76
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`·1· · · · A.· I do, sir, in 345.
`
`·2· · · · Q.· And so is it correct that you rely on the
`
`·3· ·'023 patent with regard to your analysis of claim 28
`
`·4· ·of the '055 patent?
`
`·5· · · · A.· Remind me, paragraph 345; correct?
`
`·6· · · · Q.· Correct.
`
`·7· · · · A.· Yes, sir, I rely on that patent for a
`
`·8· ·portion of analysis, it appears, for claim
`
`·9· ·limitation 5.
`
`10· · · · Q.· Can you take a look at paragraph 350 of
`
`11· ·your report, please?
`
`12· · · · A.· Yes, sir, I'm there.
`
`13· · · · Q.· So to confirm, you rely on the '840 patent
`
`14· ·with regard to your analysis of claim 32 of the '055
`
`15· ·patent?· Let me rephrase that.· Okay?
`
`16· · · · · · And so you see paragraph 350; right?
`
`17· · · · A.· I do, sir.
`
`18· · · · Q.· And so you rely on the '840 patent as part
`
`19· ·of your anticipation or obviousness analysis with
`
`20· ·regard to claim 32 of the '055 patent; correct?
`
`21· · · · A.· Yes, sir, for a portion of the analysis.
`
`22· · · · Q.· If you look at paragraph 376 --
`
`23· · · · · · Do you see that paragraph?
`
`24· · · · A.· Getting there.· 376, yes, sir.
`
`25· · · · Q.· So in 376 do you see a reference to the
`
`
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`Page 77
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`·1· ·'023 patent?
`
`·2· · · · A.· I do, sir.
`
`·3· · · · Q.· So you rely on the '023 patent, at least,
`
`·4· ·for a portion of your analysis with regard to
`
`·5· ·anticipation or obviousness of claim 41 of the '055
`
`·6· ·patent; correct?
`
`·7· · · · A.· Yes, H, paragraph 257, introduces claim 41
`
`·8· ·of the '055 patent, so in the -- it was 376 we were
`
`·9· ·talking about; correct?· So in that paragraph I cite
`
`10· ·the '023 patent and I use it as a portion of my
`
`11· ·analysis.
`
`12· · · · Q.· Can you look at paragraph 404, please?
`
`13· · · · A.· Yes, sir.· I'm there.
`
`14· · · · Q.· Do you see a reference to the '023 patent?
`
`15· · · · A.· I do, sir.
`
`16· · · · Q.· So do you rely on the '023 patent as a
`
`17· ·portion of your analysis with regard to the
`
`18· ·anticipation or obviousness of claim 55 -- 54 of the
`
`19· ·'055 patent?
`
`20· · · · A.· Yes, claim 54 of the '055 patent, I rely on
`
`21· ·the '023 patent as a portion of that analysis.
`
`22· · · · Q.· Can you look at paragraph 415, please?
`
`23· · · · A.· Four one five?
`
`24· · · · Q.· Yes.
`
`25· · · · A.· I'm there.
`
`
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`Case 2:17-cv-00513-JRG Document 258-9 Filed 01/04/19 Page 23 of 35 PageID #: 16676
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`DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018
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`Page 78
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`·1· · · · Q.· Do you see a reference to the '559 patent?
`
`·2· · · · A.· I do, sir.
`
`·3· · · · Q.· So you rely on the '559 patent for a
`
`·4· ·portion of your anticipation or obviousness analysis
`
`·5· ·with regard to claim 1 of the '251 patent; correct?
`
`·6· · · · A.· Yes, sir, I rely on the '559 patent as
`
`·7· ·cited in 415 for a portion of that analysis.
`
`·8· · · · Q.· Can you look at paragraph 431, please?
`
`·9· · · · A.· Yes, sir.· I'm there.
`
`10· · · · Q.· And so do you see a discussion of the '559
`
`11· ·patent in that paragraph?
`
`12· · · · A.· I do, sir.
`
`13· · · · Q.· And so you rely on the '559 patent for a
`
`14· ·portion of your analysis with regard to anticipation
`
`15· ·or obviousness of claim 1 of the '251 patent;
`
`16· ·correct?
`
`17· · · · A.· Claim 1 of the '251 patent, yes, sir, I
`
`18· ·rely on that patent for a portion of that analysis.
`
`19· · · · Q.· And if you look at paragraph 437, do you
`
`20· ·see a reference to the '840 patent?
`
`21· · · · A.· Yes, sir, I do.
`
`22· · · · Q.· So do you rely on the '840 patent for a
`
`23· ·portion of your analysis with regard to anticipation
`
`24· ·or obviousness of claim 5 of the '251 patent?
`
`25· · · · A.· Yes, sir, I rely on it for a portion of
`
`
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`Case 2:17-cv-00513-JRG Document 258-9 Filed 01/04/19 Page 24 of 35 PageID #: 16677
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`Page 79
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`·1· ·that analysis.
`
`·2· · · · Q.· Would you take a look at paragraph 467,
`
`·3· ·please?
`
`·4· · · · A.· 467, yes, I'm there.
`
`·5· · · · Q.· Do you see a reference there to the '559
`
`·6· ·patent?
`
`·7· · · · A.· I do, sir.
`
`·8· · · · Q.· So do you rely on the '559 patent with
`
`·9· ·regard to a portion of your analysis as to the
`
`10· ·anticipation or obviousness of claim 24 of the '251
`
`11· ·patent?
`
`12· · · · A.· Yes, sir, for a portion of the analysis.
`
`13· · · · Q.· Can you look at the paragraph numbered 485,
`
`14· ·please?
`
`15· · · · A.· Yes, I'm there.
`
`16· · · · Q.· Do you see the discussion of the '559
`
`17· ·patent?
`
`18· · · · A.· I do, sir.
`
`19· · · · Q.· So you rely on the '559 patent with regard
`
`20· ·to a portion of your analysis as to the anticipation
`
`21· ·or obviousness of claim 24 of the '251 patent;
`
`22· ·correct?
`
`23· · · · A.· Yes, sir, I rely on that patent for a
`
`24· ·portion of my analysis.
`
`25· · · · Q.· Okay.· I'd like you to take -- I'd like to
`
`
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`DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018
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`Page 210
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`·1· · · · Q.· And so is your analysis based on -- well,
`
`·2· ·let me back up a second.
`
`·3· · · · · · Do you have an understanding as to what 35
`
`·4· ·USC 102 means?
`
`·5· · · · A.· Yes, sir.· It's right here in my report.
`
`·6· ·Let me find the paragraph for you.
`
`·7· · · · Q.· I have a specific question about it, so if
`
`·8· ·you have a general understanding --
`
`·9· · · · A.· Yes.· Go ahead.
`
`10· · · · Q.· You understand there's specific sections in
`
`11· ·35 USC 102; right?
`
`12· · · · · · MS
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