Case 2:17-cv-00513-JRG Document 257-15 Filed 01/04/19 Page 1 of 10 PageID #: 16432
`Case 2:17-cv-00513-JRG Document 257-15 Filed 01/04/19 Page 1 of 10 PageID #: 16432
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`EXHIBIT 15
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`EXHIBIT 15
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`Case 2:17-cv-00513-JRG Document 257-15 Filed 01/04/19 Page 2 of 10 PageID #: 16433
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`DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018
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`·1· · · · · · · ·UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
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`·2· · · · · · · CENTRAL DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA
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`·4· ·AGIS SOFTWARE DEVELOPMENT LLC,· · )
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·) Civil Action No.
`·5· · · · · · · · · · ·Plaintiff,· · · ) 2:17-cv-513-JRG
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·) (LEAD CASE)
`·6· · · · · · · vs.· · · · · · · · · · ) Civil Action No.
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·) 2:17-cv-516-JRG
`·7· ·APPLE, INC.,· · · · · · · · · · · ) Pages 1 to 237
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`14· · · · · · ·DEPOSITION OF DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL
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`15· · · · · · · · · · · · ·TAKEN ON
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`16· · · · · · · ·WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 14, 2018
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`24· ·Reported by:· PHILIP D. NORRIS
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`25· · · · · · · · ·CSR NO. 4980
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`Epiq Court Reporting Solutions - New YorkEpiq Court Reporting Solutions - New York
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`Case 2:17-cv-00513-JRG Document 257-15 Filed 01/04/19 Page 3 of 10 PageID #: 16434
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`DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018
`Page 90
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`·1· ·computer, the device.
`·2· · · · · · But when we talk about designating a unit,
`·3· ·what we are -- you don't designate a computer, you
`·4· ·designate a military role.· That's how people are
`·5· ·identified in FBCB2.
`·6· · · · Q.· So what you're --
`·7· · · · A.· So that was the distinction I was trying to
`·8· ·get to by this terminology.· I apologize if it
`·9· ·confused you.
`10· · · · Q.· Okay.· So you say the unit receives
`11· ·information from FBCB2 devices and forwards it to
`12· ·other FBCB2 devices, so --
`13· · · · A.· No, that's not what it says, sir.
`14· · · · Q.· It says:
`15· · · · · · "Individual FBCB2 units were designated to
`16· · · · receive information from FBCB2 devices and
`17· · · · forward it to other FBCB2 devices."
`18· · · · · · Am I reading that correctly?
`19· · · · A.· Yes, sir.
`20· · · · Q.· And so was there an FBCB2 device that
`20· · · · Q.· And so was there an FBCB2 device that
`21· ·received information from FBCB2 devices or was it
`21· ·received information from FBCB2 devices or was it
`22· ·something else in the unit that received the
`22· ·something else in the unit that received the
`23· ·information from FBCB2 devices?
`23· ·information from FBCB2 devices?
`24· · · · A.· There is an FBCB2 device in that unit, but24· · · · A.· There is an FBCB2 device in that unit, but
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`25· ·it was designated by the role name that is the
`25· ·it was designated by the role name that is the
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`Pages 90..93
`Page 91
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`·1· ·military term for the unit.·1· ·military term for the unit.
`·2· · · · Q.· And so when you talk about servers in this
`·2· · · · Q.· And so when you talk about servers in this
`·3· ·paragraph, "servers consist of computers mounted on
`·3· ·paragraph, "servers consist of computers mounted on
`·4· ·Army vehicles," those are just the FBCB2 devices;
`·4· ·Army vehicles," those are just the FBCB2 devices;
`·5· ·right?
`·5· ·right?
`·6· · · · A.· Yes, sir.
`·6· · · · A.· Yes, sir.
`·7· · · · Q.· And so an FBCB2 device, that same hardware,
`·7· · · · Q.· And so an FBCB2 device, that same hardware,
`·8· ·could either be a server or not a server; right?
`·8· ·could either be a server or not a server; right?
`·9· · · · A.· Correct.· It services the FBCB2 mission for
`·9· · · · A.· Correct.· It services the FBCB2 mission for
`10· ·the user on that military platform, whether it is a
`10· ·the user on that military platform, whether it is a
`11· ·server or not.· But it may serve, as you indicated,
`11· ·server or not.· But it may serve, as you indicated,
`12· ·the additional role of being a server.
`12· ·the additional role of being a server.
`13· · · · Q.· And so is it fair to say that any FBCB2
`13· · · · Q.· And so is it fair to say that any FBCB2
`14· ·device could have been a server?
`14· ·device could have been a server?
`15· · · · A.· There is some technical limitations that
`15· · · · A.· There is some technical limitations that
`16· ·prevented some FBCB2 devices being considered
`16· ·prevented some FBCB2 devices being considered
`17· ·servers.
`17· ·servers.
`18· · · · Q.· So let's talk about these FBCB2 computers
`18· · · · Q.· So let's talk about these FBCB2 computers
`19· ·you're talking about mounted on Army vehicles.· Is
`19· ·you're talking about mounted on Army vehicles.· Is
`20· ·it fair to say that any of those FBCB2 computers
`20· ·it fair to say that any of those FBCB2 computers
`21· ·could have been a server?
`21· ·could have been a server?
`22· · · · A.· Subject to the technical limitations I just
`22· · · · A.· Subject to the technical limitations I just
`23· ·mentioned, yes.
`23· ·mentioned, yes.
`24· · · · Q.· And I'm not going to ask you specifically24· · · · Q.· And I'm not going to ask you specifically
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`25· ·about those technical limitations, but I'm going to
`25· ·about those technical limitations, but I'm going to
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`Page 92
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`·1· ·ask you:· Did you mention those in your report?· Let·1· ·ask you:· Did you mention those in your report?· Let
`·2· ·me ask you a different way.
`·2· ·me ask you a different way.
`·3· · · · · · Can you point to a paragraph in your report
`·3· · · · · · Can you point to a paragraph in your report
`·4· ·where you describe those technical limitations of
`·4· ·where you describe those technical limitations of
`·5· ·the devices that would prevent them from being a
`·5· ·the devices that would prevent them from being a
`·6· ·server?
`·6· ·server?
`·7· · · · A.· It was not relevant to the argument.
`·7· · · · A.· It was not relevant to the argument.
`·8· · · · Q.· So to confirm, you didn't put that in your
`·8· · · · Q.· So to confirm, you didn't put that in your
`·9· ·report; right?
`·9· ·report; right?
`10· · · · A.· It might be discussed in the '559 patent,
`10· · · · A.· It might be discussed in the '559 patent,
`11· ·which is referenced in several of these paragraphs,
`11· ·which is referenced in several of these paragraphs,
`12· ·but the -- the fact that only some portion of the
`12· ·but the -- the fact that only some portion of the
`13· ·FBCB2 devices in a given unit were eligible to be
`13· ·FBCB2 devices in a given unit were eligible to be
`14· ·elected as servers was not relevant to the argument
`14· ·elected as servers was not relevant to the argument
`15· ·I was making.
`15· ·I was making.
`16· · · · Q.· So to confirm, you didn't discuss that in
`16· · · · Q.· So to confirm, you didn't discuss that in
`17· ·your report; right?
`17· ·your report; right?
`18· · · · A.· I did not discuss the specific technical
`18· · · · A.· I did not discuss the specific technical
`19· ·limitation that would allow some FBCB2 devices to
`19· ·limitation that would allow some FBCB2 devices to
`20· ·become servers and others not eligible to become
`20· ·become servers and others not eligible to become
`21· ·servers, no, sir.
`21· ·servers, no, sir.
`22· · · · Q.· Have you ever heard the term "mesh
`22· · · · Q.· Have you ever heard the term "mesh
`23· ·network"?
`23· ·network"?
`24· · · · A.· I have, sir.
`24· · · · A.· I have, sir.
`25· · · · · · MR. RUBINO:· I think we're being told that25· · · · · · MR. RUBINO:· I think we're being told that
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`Page 93Page 93
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`·1· ·we have to take some time to change the tape, if you·1· ·we have to take some time to change the tape, if you
`·2· ·want to go off the record, if that's okay.
`·2· ·want to go off the record, if that's okay.
`·3· · · · · · THE VIDEOGRAPHER:· This marks the end of
`·3· · · · · · THE VIDEOGRAPHER:· This marks the end of
`·4· ·Media No. 1.· Going off the record.· The time is
`·4· ·Media No. 1.· Going off the record.· The time is
`·5· ·11:38 a.m.
`·5· ·11:38 a.m.
`·6· · · · · · (Brief recess.)
`·6· · · · · · (Brief recess.)
`·7· · · · · · THE VIDEOGRAPHER:· Back on the record.
`·7· · · · · · THE VIDEOGRAPHER:· Back on the record.
`·8· ·Here marks the beginning of Volume 1, Tape No. 2, in
`·8· ·Here marks the beginning of Volume 1, Tape No. 2, in
`·9· ·the deposition of Dr. Neil Siegel.· The time is
`·9· ·the deposition of Dr. Neil Siegel.· The time is
`10· ·11:50 a.m.
`10· ·11:50 a.m.
`11· ·BY MR. RUBINO:
`11· ·BY MR. RUBINO:
`12· · · · Q.· Good afternoon again, Dr. Siegel.· So
`12· · · · Q.· Good afternoon again, Dr. Siegel.· So
`13· ·before the break we were discussing FBCB2 devices
`13· ·before the break we were discussing FBCB2 devices
`14· ·and whether or not they could be servers; do you
`14· ·and whether or not they could be servers; do you
`15· ·recall that discussion?
`15· ·recall that discussion?
`16· · · · A.· I do, sir.
`16· · · · A.· I do, sir.
`17· · · · Q.· And so I want to direct your attention to
`17· · · · Q.· And so I want to direct your attention to
`18· ·your report, at paragraph 103.
`18· ·your report, at paragraph 103.
`19· · · · A.· Okay.· Yes, sir.
`19· · · · A.· Okay.· Yes, sir.
`20· · · · Q.· So in this paragraph you discuss the
`20· · · · Q.· So in this paragraph you discuss the
`21· ·limitation sending to a second server a request for
`21· ·limitation sending to a second server a request for
`22· ·a second georeferenced map data different from the
`22· ·a second georeferenced map data different from the
`23· ·first georeferenced map data receiving from the23· ·first georeferenced map data receiving from the
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`24· ·second server of the second georeference map data.
`24· ·second server of the second georeference map data.
`25· ·Do you see that limitation?
`25· ·Do you see that limitation?
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`
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`Case 2:17-cv-00513-JRG Document 257-15 Filed 01/04/19 Page 4 of 10 PageID #: 16435
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`DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018
`Page 94
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`·1· · · · A.· I see that, uh-huh.·1· · · · A.· I see that, uh-huh.
`·2· · · · Q.· And so you have a discussion here where you
`·2· · · · Q.· And so you have a discussion here where you
`·3· ·say:· "FBCB2 users could toggle among different maps
`·3· ·say:· "FBCB2 users could toggle among different maps
`·4· ·while in the field"; you see that?· It's in the
`·4· ·while in the field"; you see that?· It's in the
`·5· ·middle of the paragraph.
`·5· ·middle of the paragraph.
`·6· · · · A.· Yes, I do see that, uh-huh.
`·6· · · · A.· Yes, I do see that, uh-huh.
`·7· · · · Q.· And then you say:· "Many maps were
`·7· · · · Q.· And then you say:· "Many maps were
`·8· ·preloaded on FBCB2 devices prior to each mission" --
`·8· ·preloaded on FBCB2 devices prior to each mission" --
`·9· · · · A.· Right.
`·9· · · · A.· Right.
`10· · · · Q.· -- "but users could also receive new maps."
`10· · · · Q.· -- "but users could also receive new maps."
`11· · · · A.· Uh-huh.
`11· · · · A.· Uh-huh.
`12· · · · Q.· And so when you say they could receive maps
`12· · · · Q.· And so when you say they could receive maps
`13· ·from FBCB2 servers, were you talking about from
`13· ·from FBCB2 servers, were you talking about from
`14· ·other FBCB2 devices?
`14· ·other FBCB2 devices?
`15· · · · · · MS. BI:· Objection to form.
`15· · · · · · MS. BI:· Objection to form.
`16· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· From FBCB2 that were acting
`16· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· From FBCB2 that were acting
`17· ·in the role as a server.
`17· ·in the role as a server.
`18· ·BY MR. RUBINO:
`18· ·BY MR. RUBINO:
`19· · · · Q.· So for all purposes, other than the
`19· · · · Q.· So for all purposes, other than the
`20· ·technical limitations you had described earlier, any
`20· ·technical limitations you had described earlier, any
`21· ·device could be a server; right?
`21· ·device could be a server; right?
`22· · · · · · MS. BI:· Objection to form.22· · · · · · MS. BI:· Objection to form.
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`23· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· Let me be a little more
`23· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· Let me be a little more
`24· ·precise.· In a typical brigade there are about 1,000
`24· ·precise.· In a typical brigade there are about 1,000
`25· ·FBCB2 devices, 1,000 military units, probably
`25· ·FBCB2 devices, 1,000 military units, probably
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`Pages 94..97
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`Page 95Page 95
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`·1· ·between three and 400 were eligible to act as·1· ·between three and 400 were eligible to act as
`·2· ·servers, so there were a large number of FBCB2
`·2· ·servers, so there were a large number of FBCB2
`·3· ·devices on the military units that could be
`·3· ·devices on the military units that could be
`·4· ·elected -- were eligible to be elected as servers.
`·4· ·elected -- were eligible to be elected as servers.
`·5· ·At any given point in time there would be some
`·5· ·At any given point in time there would be some
`·6· ·number of servers that had actually been elected.
`·6· ·number of servers that had actually been elected.
`·7· ·BY MR. RUBINO:
`·7· ·BY MR. RUBINO:
`·8· · · · Q.· And so those three or 400 units would have
`·8· · · · Q.· And so those three or 400 units would have
`·9· ·maps preloaded on them?
`·9· ·maps preloaded on them?
`10· · · · A.· 1,000 units would have maps preloaded on
`10· · · · A.· 1,000 units would have maps preloaded on
`11· ·them.
`11· ·them.
`12· · · · Q.· Can you take a look at paragraph 104,
`13· ·please?
`14· · · · A.· Yes, sir.
`15· · · · Q.· Actually, no, I'm sorry, take -- go back to
`16· ·103.
`17· · · · A.· Yes, sir.
`18· · · · Q.· Do you see the last two sentences where you
`19· ·discuss a figure depicting an aerial photograph?
`20· · · · A.· Starting with "for example"?
`21· · · · Q.· Yes.
`22· · · · A.· Yes, I see that.
`23· · · · Q.· And so this map was taken from an unmanned
`24· ·aircraft; right?
`25· · · · A.· The picture was taken by the unmanned
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`Page 96
`·1· ·aircraft, and the unmanned aircraft provided the
`·2· ·georeferencing information as well, and then that
`·3· ·was sent down to the ground and eventually made its
`·4· ·way to an FBCB2 server, which then upon request
`·5· ·provided to one or more FBCB2 units and devices.
`·6· · · · Q.· So the, just to confirm, the unmanned
`·7· ·device that -- unmanned aircraft that took this
`·8· ·picture was not an FBCB2 unit; right?
`·9· · · · A.· No, sir.· We could use pictures taken from
`10· ·all sorts of devices.
`11· · · · Q.· So we may get into it, but I'm just going
`12· ·to ask you about whether you know something and not
`13· ·what you know about it.· Okay?
`14· · · · A.· Okay.
`15· · · · Q.· So do you know the actual mechanism as
`16· ·implemented by FBCB2 for requesting or receiving
`17· ·maps?
`18· · · · · · MS. BI:· Objection to form.
`19· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· I do.
`20· ·BY MR. RUBINO:
`21· · · · Q.· And to confirm, what you know about that
`22· ·method you've provided in your report; right?
`23· · · · · · MS. BI:· Objection to form.
`24· · · · · · MR. RUBINO:· Let me ask it a different way.
`25· ·Well, I'll ask you a different question.
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`Page 97
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`·1· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· Okay.
`·2· ·BY MR. RUBINO:
`·3· · · · Q.· And so you would know whether FBCB2 units
`·4· ·could receive maps upon request; right?· I'm not
`·5· ·asking you whether they did, I'm just asking if you
`·6· ·know.
`·7· · · · A.· I personally, I know?
`·8· · · · Q.· Yes.
`·9· · · · A.· Yes, I know, I know that.
`10· · · · Q.· Do you know whether FBCB2 units could
`11· ·receive maps as a push of data instead of as a -- in
`12· ·response to a request?
`13· · · · · · MS. BI:· Objection to form.
`14· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· Define "push" in this
`15· ·context, please.
`16· ·BY MR. RUBINO:
`17· · · · Q.· Do you understand the difference between a
`18· ·push and a pull?
`19· · · · · · MS. BI:· Objection to form.
`20· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· I understand the way I have
`21· ·heard technical people discuss it, but honestly, the
`22· ·terms are used very haphazardly and many things are
`23· ·described as a pull and many things are described as
`24· ·a data push, so I ask you to tell me exactly a
`25· ·little more detail so I can answer your question
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`Case 2:17-cv-00513-JRG Document 257-15 Filed 01/04/19 Page 5 of 10 PageID #: 16436
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`DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018
`Page 98
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`·1· ·appropriately.
`·2· ·BY MR. RUBINO:
`·3· · · · Q.· You've at least heard the two terms before;
`·4· ·right?
`·5· · · · A.· Absolutely.
`·6· · · · Q.· And you have a basic understanding of what
`·7· ·you think they mean in the industry; right?
`·8· · · · · · MS. BI:· Objection to form.
`·9· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· As I said, my experience is
`10· ·that there's not a consistent use and many things
`11· ·are meant by both of those terms in the industry.
`12· ·BY MR. RUBINO:
`13· · · · Q.· So I'm going to ask you about the FBCB2
`14· ·device as it's designated as a server, at the
`15· ·instant it is designated as a server.· Okay?
`16· · · · A.· Uh-huh.
`17· · · · Q.· So when an FBCB2 device is designated as a
`18· ·server, can it receive maps from another source?
`19· · · · A.· Yes, sir.
`20· · · · Q.· So --
`21· · · · A.· After, after it is designated as a server.
`22· · · · Q.· So when it is designated as a server and
`23· ·after it is designated as a server, that FBCB2
`24· ·device can request maps from another source; right?
`25· · · · A.· It can receive maps from another source.
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`Pages 98..101
`Page 99
`·1· · · · Q.· So is there a difference, in your mind,
`·2· ·between requesting maps and receiving maps?
`·3· · · · A.· Requesting gets into details of the process
`·4· ·by which the map gets there and the control of that
`·5· ·process.· Receiving maps, in my mind, is independent
`·6· ·of that.· It just means that a process has taken
`·7· ·place that allowed a new map to arrive at the
`·8· ·server.
`·9· · · · Q.· So with regard to the process by which the
`10· ·new map arrives at the server, do you understand how
`11· ·that process worked?
`12· · · · A.· Only partially, in some cases, but maybe
`13· ·not in all instances, because there's many types of
`14· ·maps.
`15· · · · Q.· So do you know whether the map would have
`16· ·arrived at the server by a request issued by the
`17· ·server or whether the map would have arrived by some
`18· ·other mechanism?
`19· · · · · · MS. BI:· Objection to form.
`20· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· Both of those are possible.
`21· ·BY MR. RUBINO:
`22· · · · Q.· So sitting here today, you can't tell me
`23· ·which one would have been the method employed by an
`24· ·FBCB2 server?
`25· · · · · · MS. BI:· Objection to form.
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`Page 100
`·1· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· No, no, that's not what I
`·2· ·meant by my answer.· Both methods are possible in
`·3· ·FBCB2.
`·4· ·BY MR. RUBINO:
`·5· · · · Q.· So in the context of a server receiving a
`·6· ·map without having requested it, how does that map
`·7· ·arrive at the server?· What is the process?
`·8· · · · A.· The end result is that it ends up on a list
`·9· ·of additional maps, and that list is forwarded to
`10· ·the units, FBCB2 units, that are serviced by this
`11· ·server and therefore the person at those FBCB2 units
`12· ·and devices can look at this list and say oh, that's
`13· ·a map I would want.· That is one mechanism.
`14· · · · · · Another mechanism is that any FBCB2 user
`15· ·can send a message saying I really need a map of
`16· ·this type or photograph of this type, of this area,
`17· ·and that will be sent off to see if we can get the
`18· ·Air Force or somebody to go take that picture and
`19· ·send it back to us.
`20· · · · · · So both -- both of what I think you might
`21· ·mean by push and pull are possible.
`22· · · · Q.· So in that second scenario where you're
`23· ·talking about let's see if the Air Force can go get
`24· ·that picture for us, that's a case where the map
`25· ·doesn't exist; right?
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`Page 101
`·1· · · · A.· Right.· So in some cases the map in the --
`·2· ·in the first instance I talked about, the map
`·3· ·exists, and it's provided to FBCB2 and it shows up
`·4· ·on a list, and then people say oh, I want to use
`·5· ·that one.
`·6· · · · · · But, we also have the possibility to say I
`·7· ·really need to see behind this hill.· Can an Army
`·8· ·UAV or an Army helicopter or the Air Force, can
`·9· ·somebody go out and collect that photograph for me?
`10· · · · Q.· So after the photograph is collected, is it
`11· ·then automatically sent to everyone?
`12· · · · A.· It would be -- it would be sent to the
`13· ·servers and it would then appear on the list, and
`14· ·there would also -- to the person who made the
`15· ·request he would get a note saying the picture you
`16· ·requested is now available.· But other people would
`17· ·have access to use that picture, too.
`18· · · · Q.· And so is it always the case that -- let me
`18· · · · Q.· And so is it always the case that -- let me
`19· ·ask you a different question.
`19· ·ask you a different question.
`20· · · · · · So you testified earlier about how the
`20· · · · · · So you testified earlier about how the
`21· ·servers were fluid in this environment; right?
`21· ·servers were fluid in this environment; right?
`22· · · · · · MS. BI:· Objection to form.
`22· · · · · · MS. BI:· Objection to form.
`23· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· Yeah, I used the term
`23· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· Yeah, I used the term
`24· ·"elected."
`24· ·"elected."
`25· ·///
`
`
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`Case 2:17-cv-00513-JRG Document 257-15 Filed 01/04/19 Page 6 of 10 PageID #: 16437
`
`
`DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018
`Page 102
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`
`·1· ·BY MR. RUBINO:·1· ·BY MR. RUBINO:
`·2· · · · Q.· And you used the word "dynamic" throughout
`·2· · · · Q.· And you used the word "dynamic" throughout
`·3· ·your report; right?
`·3· ·your report; right?
`·4· · · · A.· I did, correct.
`·4· · · · A.· I did, correct.
`·5· · · · Q.· So the server could change frequently;
`·5· · · · Q.· So the server could change frequently;
`·6· ·right?
`·6· ·right?
`·7· · · · A.· Let me try and say it a little more
`·7· · · · A.· Let me try and say it a little more
`·8· ·precisely.· The FBCB2 units that are serving the
`·8· ·precisely.· The FBCB2 units that are serving the
`·9· ·role of -- acting in the role of a server will
`·9· ·role of -- acting in the role of a server will
`10· ·change over time.
`10· ·change over time.
`11· · · · Q.· And so it's possible that an FBCB2 unit
`11· · · · Q.· And so it's possible that an FBCB2 unit
`12· ·could send out a message saying they want another
`12· ·could send out a message saying they want another
`13· ·map like a picture behind a hill to a server; right?
`13· ·map like a picture behind a hill to a server; right?
`14· · · · A.· (Witness nods head.)
`14· · · · A.· (Witness nods head.)
`15· · · · Q.· And then when they ultimately get the
`15· · · · Q.· And then when they ultimately get the
`16· ·picture, the picture doesn't necessarily have to
`16· ·picture, the picture doesn't necessarily have to
`17· ·come through that same server; right?
`17· ·come through that same server; right?
`18· · · · · · MS. BI:· Objection to form.
`18· · · · · · MS. BI:· Objection to form.
`19· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· The system will accommodate
`19· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· The system will accommodate
`20· ·the battlefield dynamic.· So if it's this
`20· ·the battlefield dynamic.· So if it's this
`21· ·gentleman's unit that made the original request and
`21· ·gentleman's unit that made the original request and
`22· ·it's this lady's unit that is acting as the server
`22· ·it's this lady's unit that is acting as the server
`23· ·at the time of the request, it goes off, the picture
`23· ·at the time of the request, it goes off, the picture
`24· ·gets taken, but it might be because of the dynamics24· ·gets taken, but it might be because of the dynamics
`
`25· ·of the battlefield that this lady unit is no longer
`25· ·of the battlefield that this lady unit is no longer
`
`Pages 102..105
`
`Page 103Page 103
`
`·1· ·the server, it's this other lady's unit is acting as·1· ·the server, it's this other lady's unit is acting as
`·2· ·the unit for this gentleman, but it would find its
`·2· ·the unit for this gentleman, but it would find its
`·3· ·way back.
`·3· ·way back.
`·4· ·BY MR. RUBINO:
`·4· ·BY MR. RUBINO:
`·5· · · · Q.· But it doesn't have to be the same server
`·5· · · · Q.· But it doesn't have to be the same server
`·6· ·that it actually passes through; right?
`·6· ·that it actually passes through; right?
`·7· · · · A.· It doesn't have to be the same server.
`·7· · · · A.· It doesn't have to be the same server.
`·8· · · · Q.· So with regard to this picture you've shown
`·8· · · · Q.· So with regard to this picture you've shown
`·9· ·after paragraph 103 in your report --
`·9· ·after paragraph 103 in your report --
`10· · · · A.· Uh-huh, I see it, at the top of page 50.
`10· · · · A.· Uh-huh, I see it, at the top of page 50.
`11· · · · Q.· -- do you have any way to know one way or
`11· · · · Q.· -- do you have any way to know one way or
`12· ·the other whether that request for the image and the
`12· ·the other whether that request for the image and the
`13· ·image itself being transmitted back passed through
`13· ·image itself being transmitted back passed through
`14· ·that same server, passed through a single server?
`14· ·that same server, passed through a single server?
`15· · · · · · MS. BI:· Objection to form.
`15· · · · · · MS. BI:· Objection to form.
`16· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· No, the FBCB2 user probably
`16· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· No, the FBCB2 user probably
`17· ·would not have any way of knowing that.
`17· ·would not have any way of knowing that.
`18· ·BY MR. RUBINO:
`18· ·BY MR. RUBINO:
`19· · · · Q.· And do you know that?· Do you have any
`19· · · · Q.· And do you know that?· Do you have any
`20· ·idea?
`20· ·idea?
`21· · · · A.· Me technically?· Yes, I mean, there's
`21· · · · A.· Me technically?· Yes, I mean, there's
`22· ·technical information that would -- that would be
`22· ·technical information that would -- that would be
`23· ·available to an expert that would tell us the state
`23· ·available to an expert that would tell us the state
`24· ·of the system at any time and at every time in the24· ·of the system at any time and at every time in the
`
`25· ·past, and we would know which FBCB2 -- we would know
`25· ·past, and we would know which FBCB2 -- we would know
`
`Page 104
`
`·1· ·that she was FBCB2 for this person at eleven·1· ·that she was FBCB2 for this person at eleven
`·2· ·o'clock, but she was the FBCB2 server for this
`·2· ·o'clock, but she was the FBCB2 server for this
`·3· ·person starting at twelve o'clock.· That information
`·3· ·person starting at twelve o'clock.· That information
`·4· ·would be available to an expert.
`·4· ·would be available to an expert.
`·5· · · · Q.· I'm just asking you:· Sitting here today,
`·6· ·based on the evidence you've collected and what
`·7· ·you've put into your report, can you tell one way or
`·8· ·the other whether this picture was requested and
`·9· ·received by the same FBCB2 server device?
`10· · · · · · MS. BI:· Objection to form.
`11· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· No, sir.· I'll point out, if
`12· ·I can complete the answer, I'm sorry, there's the
`13· ·other possibility that your question kind of
`14· ·excluded, but it's possible that this was not a
`15· ·requested image but it was an image that was taken
`16· ·and was made available on a list.· So remember, I
`17· ·said that not all of them have to be requested.
`18· ·BY MR. RUBINO:
`19· · · · Q.· So it may be that this image was not even a
`20· ·requested image, is what you're saying?
`21· · · · A.· Right, that's possible.
`22· · · · Q.· So with regard to -- I'm going to ask you a
`23· ·question about some documents, but I need to have a
`24· ·copy of them.· Just one second while we pull up the
`25· ·document.
`
`Page 105
`·1· · · · · · I'd like to mark as Siegel 2 a document
`·2· ·bearing production label APL-AGIS_00012804 through
`·3· ·12876.
`·4· · · · · · (The document referred to was marked by the
`·5· ·reporter as Exhibit 2 for identification and is
`·6· ·attached hereto.)
`·7· ·BY MR. RUBINO:
`·8· · · · Q.· Have you seen this document before?
`·9· · · · A.· Yes, sir.
`10· · · · Q.· Is this one of the documents you rely on in
`11· ·your report?
`12· · · · A.· I believe it is one of the documents that
`13· ·is cited in my report, yeah.
`14· · · · Q.· May not be in your Materials Considered,
`15· ·but I think you refer to it at least in paragraph,
`16· ·for example, 110 of your report, towards the bottom
`17· ·of the page.
`18· · · · · · MS. BI:· Objection to form.
`19· ·BY MR. RUBINO:
`20· · · · Q.· Is that correct?
`21· · · · A.· Paragraph 110 or page 110?
`22· · · · Q.· Paragraph 110.
`23· · · · A.· I'm not seeing 12804.· Help me.
`24· · · · Q.· Isn't 12847 through 48 a portion of this
`25· ·document?
`
`
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`Case 2:17-cv-00513-JRG Document 257-15 Filed 01/04/19 Page 7 of 10 PageID #: 16438
`
`
`DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018DR. NEIL G. SIEGEL - 11/14/2018
`Page 190
`
`·1· ·field than the handheld version"?
`·2· · · · A.· I see that sentence, yes.
`·3· · · · Q.· And do you see the paragraph after that
`·4· ·where it says:· "Given the physical constraints of
`·5· ·the handheld platform and how it is used, there are
`·6· ·some capabilities available on the tablet that are
`·7· ·not implemented on the handheld"?
`·8· · · · A.· I see the sentence, yeah.
`·9· · · · Q.· Is that consistent with your understanding
`10· ·of handheld platforms verse tablets?
`11· · · · · · MS. BI:· Objection to form.
`12· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· There's not enough
`13· ·information there to -- to tell, nor does it even
`14· ·say is the handheld platform a General Dynamics
`15· ·product or somebody else's product.· I can't tell
`16· ·from the sentence.· I can't tell what's being
`17· ·compared.
`18· ·BY MR. RUBINO:
`19· · · · Q.· Take a look at the next page, page 3, and
`20· ·it's the fourth paragraph from the bottom, it says:
`21· · · · · · "The primary shortfalls in CDA, in his view,
`22· · · · are the limited memory and data processing
`23· · · · capability.· The software does not allow for
`24· · · · selective downloading, he said, and the
`25· · · · onslaught of information clogs up the
`
`Pages 190..193
`Page 191
`
`·1· · · · computer."
`·2· · · · · · Do you see that?
`·3· · · · A.· I see that, yeah, yeah.
`·4· · · · Q.· Are those some of the concerns that existed
`·5· ·in the field in 2004 regarding processing
`·6· ·capabilities of handheld devices?
`·7· · · · · · MS. BI:· Objection to form.
`·8· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· I can't speak to all handheld
`·9· ·devices.· It was not a concern that I ever heard
`10· ·expressed about an FBCB2 device in the field in
`11· ·2004.· The CDA, as I believe it states earlier, is
`12· ·not a Northrop Grumman device and was not a FBCB2
`13· ·device.
`14· ·BY MR. RUBINO:
`15· · · · Q.· So in the -- in the mobile device, in the
`16· ·handheld device that you make reference to in your
`17· ·report, what kind of processor was in there?· Was it
`18· ·an ARM processor?
`19· · · · A.· There were different versions of a handheld
`20· ·device.· I believe the original one had an Intel
`21· ·processor, and either 2003, 2004 time frame there
`22· ·was a version with an ARM...
`23· · · · · · It was not an Intel processor, but I can't
`24· ·remember if it was an ARM processor or not.· But
`25· ·there was some other processor that was designed to
`
`Page 192
`·1· ·be more parsimonious of battery life than an Intel
`·2· ·processor would be.
`·3· · · · Q.· So just to confirm, you're not relying on
`·4· ·anything about the CDA product in the context of
`·5· ·your report; right?
`·6· · · · A.· The CDA product, as you defined it here,
`·7· ·clearly says that it was built by General Dynamics
`·8· ·Decision Systems.· General Dynamics Decision Systems
`·9· ·makes the CDA.· That's not our product.
`10· · · · Q.· So I'd like to ask you about -- going back
`10· · · · Q.· So I'd like to ask you about -- going back
`11· ·to how you implemented this distributed environment
`11· ·to how you implemented this distributed environment
`12· ·for FBCB2 where you had different devices that could
`12· ·for FBCB2 where you had different devices that could
`13· ·fill the role of what you call the server.· Okay?
`13· ·fill the role of what you call the server.· Okay?
`14· · · · A.· Uh-huh, okay.
`14· · · · A.· Uh-huh, okay.
`15· · · · Q.· And so is it fair to say that any device
`15· · · · Q.· And so is it fair to say that any device
`16· ·running FBCB2 that was communicating with the server
`16· ·running FBCB2 that was communicating with the s