Trademark Trial and Appeal Board Electronic Filing System. http://estta.uspto.gov
`
`ESTTA Tracking number:
`
`ESTTA750011
`
`Filing date:
`
`06/02/2016
`
`IN THE UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`BEFORE THE TRADEMARK TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`Proceeding
`
`92057850
`
`Party
`
`Correspondence
`Address
`
`Submission
`
`Filer's Name
`
`Filer's e-mail
`
`Signature
`
`Date
`
`Attachments
`
`Plaintiff
`Merchant & Gould P.C.
`
`JOHN A CLIFFORD
`MERCHANT & GOULD PC
`80 S 8TH ST STE 3200
`MINNEAPOLIS, MN 55402-2215
`UNITED STATES
`jclifford@merchantgould.com, aavery@merchantgould.com, dockm-
`pls@merchantgould.com, merbele@merchantgould.com, sjohn-
`ston@merchantgould.com
`
`Testimony For Plaintiff
`
`John A. Clifford
`
`jclifford@merchantgould.com, aavery@merchantgould.com
`
`/John A. Clifford/
`
`06/02/2016
`
`2016 05 06 Brian Batzli Deposition Transcript REDACTED Signed.PDF(324499
`bytes )
`2016 05 06 Brian Batzli Deposition Transcript EXHIBIT 28 - Part
`1pdf.pdf(3238933 bytes )
`2016 05 06 Brian Batzli Deposition Transcript EXHIBIT 28 - Part 2.pdf(3133071
`bytes )
`2016 05 06 Brian Batzli Deposition Transcript EXHIBIT 29.PDF(991097 bytes )
`2016 05 06 Brian Batzli Deposition Transcript EXHIBIT 30.PDF(443508 bytes )
`2016 05 06 Brian Batzli Deposition Transcript EXHIBIT 31.PDF(167504 bytes )
`2016 05 06 Brian Batzli Deposition Transcript EXHIBIT 32.PDF(278374 bytes )
`2016 05 06 Brian Batzli Deposition Transcript EXHIBIT 33.PDF(323524 bytes )
`2016 05 06 Brian Batzli Deposition Transcript EXHIBIT 35.PDF(1222285 bytes )
`2016 05 06 Brian Batzli Deposition Transcript EXHIBIT 36.PDF(16584 bytes )
`2016 05 06 Brian Batzli Deposition Transcript EXHIBIT 37.PDF(12049 bytes )
`2016 05 06 Brian Batzli Deposition Transcript EXHIBIT 38.PDF(56035 bytes )
`2016 05 06 Brian Batzli Deposition Transcript EXHIBIT 39.PDF(433806 bytes )
`2016 05 06 Brian Batzli Deposition Transcript EXHIBIT 40.PDF(57798 bytes )
`2016 05 06 Brian Batzli Deposition Transcript EXHIBIT 41.PDF(213404 bytes )
`2016 05 06 Brian Batzli Deposition Transcript EXHIBIT 42.PDF(16214 bytes )
`2016 05 06 Brian Batzli Deposition Transcript EXHIBIT 43.PDF(297442 bytes )
`2016 05 06 Brian Batzli Deposition Transcript EXHIBIT 44.PDF(272759 bytes )
`2016 05 06 Brian Batzli Deposition Transcript EXHIBIT 45.PDF(258379 bytes )
`2016 05 06 Brian Batzli Deposition Transcript EXHIBIT 46.PDF(631385 bytes )
`2016 05 06 Brian Batzli Deposition Transcript EXHIBIT 47.PDF(2773696 bytes )
`2016 05 06 Brian Batzli Deposition Transcript EXHIBIT 48.PDF(324874 bytes )
`2016 05 06 Brian Batzli Deposition Transcript EXHIBIT 49.PDF(371210 bytes )
`2016 05 06 Brian Batzli Deposition Transcript EXHIBIT 50.PDF(681552 bytes )
`2016 05 06 Brian Batzli Deposition Transcript EXHIBIT 51.PDF(560318 bytes )
`2016 05 06 Brian Batzli Deposition Transcript EXHIBIT 52.PDF(614968 bytes )
`2016 05 06 Brian Batzli Deposition Transcript EXHIBIT 53.PDF(622688 bytes )
`2016 06 02 Certificate of Service Batzli REDACTED Transcript.PDF(72943
`bytes )
`
`

`
`BRIAN BATZLI May 3, 2016
`
`Page 1
`
`IN THE UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
` BEFORE THE TRADEMARK TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`CANCELLATION NUMBER: 92057850
`
`--------------------------------------------------
`
`Merchant & Gould,
`
` Petitioner,
`
`versus
`
`MG-IP Law, PPLC,
`
` Respondent.
`
`--------------------------------------------------
`
` DEPOSITION OF
`
` BRIAN BATZLI
`
` CONFIDENTIAL PORTION REDACTED
`
`TAKEN: 3 May 2016 BY: Jackie McKone
`
`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Minnesota
`1-877-489-0367
`www.deposition.com
`
`

`
`BRIAN BATZLI May 3, 2016
`
`Page 2
`
`APPEARANCES:
`
`MERCHANT GOULD
`80 South Eighth Street, Suite 3200
`Minneapolis, Minnesota 55402
`PHONE: (612) 332-5300
`FAX: (612) 332-9081
`E-MAIL: jclifford@merchantgould.com
`
`BY: John Clifford, Michael Erbele
`For the Petitioner
`
`SYMBUS LAW GROUP
`11710 Plaza America Drive, Suite 2000
`Reston, Virginia 20190
`PHONE: (703) 957-5274
`FAX: (540) 518-9037
`E-MAIL: jhousey@symbus.com
`
`BY: Janice Housey, via telephone
`For the Respondent
`
`Also present: Jay Hines, MG-IP
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7 8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Minnesota
`1-877-489-0367
`www.deposition.com
`
`

`
`BRIAN BATZLI May 3, 2016
`
`Page 3
`
` I N D E X
`
`Examination by Mr. Clifford, Page 5
`Examination by Ms. Housey, Page 68
`
` E X H I B I T S
`
`Exhibit 28 Anniversary brochure, Page 21
`
`Exhibit 29 Letterhead brand examples, Page 24
`
`Exhibit 30 Check photocopy, Page 26
`
`Exhibit 31 IP star advertisement, Page 27
`
`Exhibit 32 M&G location sheet, Page 29
`
`Exhibit 33 International group doc, Page 31
`
`Exhibit 34 Gross revenue sheet, Page 34
` ATTORNEYS' EYES ONLY
`
`Exhibit 35 Stationery examples, Page 36
`
`Exhibit 36 Golla letter, Page 38
`
`Exhibit 37 Trademark, Page 44
`
`Exhibit 38 Trademark, Page 44
`
`Exhibit 39 Registration certificate, Page 44
`
`Exhibit 40 Trademark, Page 44
`
`Exhibit 41 Trademark, Page 44
`
`Exhibit 42 MG-IP business cards, Page 48
`
`Exhibit 43 MG-IP envelope, Page 48
`
`Exhibit 44 MG-IP folder cover, Page 48
`
`Exhibit 45 About Merchant document, Page 52
`
`Exhibit 46 Reception invitation, Page 53
`
`Exhibit 47 IP update, Page 55
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3 4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Minnesota
`1-877-489-0367
`www.deposition.com
`
`

`
`BRIAN BATZLI May 3, 2016
`
`Page 4
`
` E X H I B I T S
`
`Exhibit 48 Brochure, Page 56
`
`Exhibit 49 Trademark guide, Page 56
`
`Exhibit 50 Trademark guide, Page 56
`
`Exhibit 51 Anniversary program, Page 56
`
`Exhibit 52 Party documents, Page 63
`
`Exhibit 53 Bench and Bar excerpt, Page 64
`
`1
`
`2 3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Minnesota
`1-877-489-0367
`www.deposition.com
`
`

`
`BRIAN BATZLI May 3, 2016
`
`Page 5
`
` P R O C E E D I N G S
`
` The following is the deposition of Brian
`
` Batzli taken at Merchant Gould, 80 South Eighth
`
` Street in Minneapolis, Minnesota commencing at
`
` 2:04 p.m. on 3 May 2016 pursuant to notice.
`
` * * *
`
` BRIAN BATZLI
`
` after having been first duly sworn deposes
`
` and says under oath as follows.
`
` * * *
`
` EXAMINATION
`
` BY MR. CLIFFORD:
`
`Q. Would you state your name please.
`
`A. Brian Batzli.
`
`Q. By whom are you employed?
`
`A. Merchant & Gould PC.
`
`Q. What is your title with Merchant & Gould?
`
`A. CEO managing director and chairman of the board.
`
`Q. How long have you worked at Merchant & Gould?
`
`A. I've worked as Merchant & Gould since November 2,
`
` 1987. So over 28 years.
`
`Q. Let me back up and have you summarize for us your
`
` educational background since high school.
`
`A. I attended the University of Minnesota. I
`
` received a bachelor of electrical engineering
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Minnesota
`1-877-489-0367
`www.deposition.com
`
`

`
`BRIAN BATZLI May 3, 2016
`
`Page 6
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` degree in 1982. I then attended William Mitchell
`
` College of Law and graduated in 1985.
`
`Q. Can you summarize your employment since high
`
` school.
`
`A. Since high school, I worked on the family farm for
`
` several summers, and then I worked as a design
`
` engineering, internal at a company called
`
` ElectroCraft Corporation. I worked there as a
`
` design engineer for two summers the summer
`
` following graduation and the first summer between
`
` the first and second year of law school. I worked
`
` then next beginning in my third year of law school
`
` as a legal clerk at a company called CPT
`
` Corporation, and I worked there from 1984 until I
`
` joined Merchant & Gould in 1987.
`
`Q. When did you personally first hear of the firm
`
` Merchant & Gould?
`
`A. I learned of the firm Merchant Gould while I was
`
` at CPT Corporation. We were a client of Merchant
`
` & Gould, but even before then, I'm sure I heard of
`
` Merchant & Gould as being one of the go-to IP
`
` firms in the Minneapolis-Saint Paul area.
`
`Q. Did you grow up in the Minneapolis-Saint Paul
`
` area?
`
`A. Yes I did. I grew up in a western suburb of
`
`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Minnesota
`1-877-489-0367
`www.deposition.com
`
`

`
`BRIAN BATZLI May 3, 2016
`
`Page 7
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` Minneapolis.
`
`Q. Prior to working at Merchant & Gould, did you ever
`
` hear of the firm referred to by any other names
`
` other than Merchant & Gould?
`
`A. I'm sure at the time, the -- this was prior to
`
` joining Merchant & Gould?
`
`Q. Correct.
`
`A. At the time, the firm name was Merchant Gould
`
` Smith Edell Welter and Schmidt, and it was
`
` referred to by people at law school, and as far as
`
` I knew in the Twin Cities and at work at CPT, as
`
` Merchant Gould.
`
`Q. Were there any other names by which it was
`
` referred to other than Merchant & Gould?
`
`A. I can't remember if it was.
`
`Q. Did you ever hear of the firm referred to as M&G?
`
`A. I'm not sure that it was at that time.
`
`Q. You're not sure that it was referred to by that or
`
` that you had heard it?
`
`A. I'm not sure that I heard it.
`
`Q. While you were in law school at William Mitchell,
`
` were you aware that student in school knew of the
`
` firm Merchant & Gould?
`
`A. Yes. We had a -- we both -- we saw people from
`
` Merchant & Gould do on-campus interviewing. We
`
`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Minnesota
`1-877-489-0367
`www.deposition.com
`
`

`
`BRIAN BATZLI May 3, 2016
`
`Page 8
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` also had an intellectual property law student
`
` group that got together periodically and we talked
`
` about employers or possible employers in the Twin
`
` Cities area, and Merchant Gould was one of those
`
` law firms that hired students from William
`
` Mitchell. So we were aware of that.
`
`Q. Were any members of the Merchant & Gould law firm
`
` adjunct faculty at William Mitchell law school
`
` while you were there?
`
`A. Yes. Two members were for sure; Paul Welter and
`
` Earl Ryland taught courses on patent law, and I
`
` took one of them that Paul and Earl taught as
`
` adjuncts at the school.
`
`Q. Thinking about the time frame when you were in law
`
` school, did you hear people refer to Merchant &
`
` Gould by the initials M&G?
`
`A. I don't recall.
`
`Q. When did you and I first meet?
`
`A. I met you Mr. Clifford at on-campus interviewing.
`
` I believe it would have been probably fall of 1984
`
` or spring of 1985.
`
`Q. Did I offer you a job after that?
`
`A. I was called in for a second interview, but then I
`
` was not offered a job. The incoming class had
`
` been filled by the time I was interviewed for
`
`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Minnesota
`1-877-489-0367
`www.deposition.com
`
`

`
`BRIAN BATZLI May 3, 2016
`
`Page 9
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` that.
`
`Q. Did you forgive me for that?
`
`A. Yes I have.
`
`Q. At some point, did you reapply to come to Merchant
`
` & Gould?
`
`A. Yes. In summer of 1987, as I indicated earlier, I
`
` think we were -- CPT Corporation was a client of
`
` Merchant & Gould, and I was working with several
`
` of the attorneys, and I indicated to them that I
`
` would love to interview at Merchant & Gould again
`
` if they had an opening. There was someone who was
`
` leaving to go in-house, and so I interviewed again
`
` in the fall and was hired in November of 1987.
`
`Q. How long have you had your current title with the
`
` law firm?
`
`A. I was elected managing director, CEO and took the
`
` office on January 1, 2011.
`
`Q. Are you generally familiar with the business of
`
` Merchant & Gould?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Q. What is the business of Merchant & Gould?
`
`A. Intellectual property services. We are a boutique
`
` firm. We have a goal to provide intellectual
`
` property services in a comprehensive way. So we
`
` practice both trademark, patent, copyright, trade
`
`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Minnesota
`1-877-489-0367
`www.deposition.com
`
`

`
`BRIAN BATZLI May 3, 2016
`
`Page 10
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` secret, both procurement, counseling, and also
`
` enforcement of -- in the enforcement area.
`
`Q. What percentage of the firm's revenue comes from
`
` providing intellectual property services? If you
`
` know.
`
`A. Well, virtually all of our revenue comes from a
`
` variety of intellectual property services. We do
`
` provide pro bono services, but obviously we're not
`
` getting paid for that. So we do pro bono services
`
` in areas such as child custody issues,
`
` immigration, rent issues; things like that.
`
`Q. Have you had any high-profile pro bono cases
`
` recently?
`
`A. Yes. One of our attorneys in our Madison office
`
` together with several partners in that office
`
` represented a case for a detainee that was in
`
` jail, and the issue became what level of care was
`
` needed to be taken with respect to that individual
`
` versus someone who had been found guilty, and that
`
` case was taken up to the Supreme Court earlier in
`
` 2015.
`
`Q. What was the outcome of that case to the US
`
` Supreme Court?
`
`A. Our attorney won the case. It was quite an
`
` interesting case and fascinating, and we're very
`
`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Minnesota
`1-877-489-0367
`www.deposition.com
`
`

`
`BRIAN BATZLI May 3, 2016
`
`Page 11
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` proud of her.
`
`Q. That was not an intellectual property case?
`
`A. No it was not.
`
`Q. Do you have an understanding of the geographic
`
` region where the clients of Merchant & Gould come
`
` from?
`
`A. Yes I do.
`
`Q. Can you describe that?
`
`A. Sure. We have what I would call a national
`
` footprint in the United States. We have offices
`
` in Seattle, Denver, Minneapolis, Madison,
`
` Knoxville, Atlanta, DC, and New York. We have a
`
` nascent office in Silicon Valley that we are
`
` hoping to open shortly, and we have clients in the
`
` United States. Probably historically because the
`
` firm was founded in Minneapolis-Saint Paul
`
` originally, a majority of the clients were in that
`
` area, but now a majority of the clients come from
`
` across the United States in a number of different
`
` states. We also do a significant volume of work
`
` internationally with both foreign corporations and
`
` law firms in the various countries that send us
`
` work to be handled in the United States.
`
`Q. Have you personally made trips to visit colleagues
`
` outside the United States for the purposes of
`
`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Minnesota
`1-877-489-0367
`www.deposition.com
`
`

`
`BRIAN BATZLI May 3, 2016
`
`Page 12
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` business development?
`
`A. Yes. Early on in my career, relatively early on
`
` in my career at Merchant Gould, I was asked to
`
` help coordinate the work to and from South
`
` America, and so I have taken trips both to Brazil
`
` and Mexico in order to meet with the associates in
`
` those countries to better the relations to
`
` understand what their practice is and who they
`
` are.
`
` I've also more recently helped coordinate
`
` the work to and from Australia, New Zealand for a
`
` period of time, and now in Japan and South Korea,
`
` and so I've taken a number of trips to Japan, one
`
` trip to South Korea, and a trip to Australia over
`
` the years to really better understand and learn
`
` who the associates are that we're working with.
`
`Q. Are you aware of any other lawyers at Merchant &
`
` Gould who have taken similar trips to other
`
` countries?
`
`A. Yes. We have a group of attorneys, we refer to
`
` them as regional attorneys, that are responsible
`
` for either different parts of the globe or
`
` individual countries, depending on the volume of
`
` the work generally that comes from those areas,
`
` and so we have a number of attorneys who travel
`
`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Minnesota
`1-877-489-0367
`www.deposition.com
`
`

`
`BRIAN BATZLI May 3, 2016
`
`Page 13
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` frequently to Canada, Europe, China, et cetera.
`
`Q. Can you describe generally the geographic reach of
`
` all of the Merchant & Gould attorneys, including
`
` yourself and the others?
`
`A. Well, yes. It's almost worldwide. I can't say
`
` necessarily worldwide because I don't think we've
`
` made a lot of trips, if any, to Russia, and
`
` eastern Europe, and some of the African countries,
`
` but we do keep track -- even if we don't visit the
`
` country directly, we do visit them at the Asian
`
` Pacific attorney association meetings. There's on
`
` in Europe called AIPPI has meetings, and INTA. So
`
` we visit with the foreign associates around the
`
` globe regardless of whether we're visiting them in
`
` their home country or at the international
`
` conferences.
`
`Q. Are you aware of any other industry groups or
`
` conferences sponsored by folks other than the ones
`
` you've just mentioned where Merchant & Gould
`
` lawyers attend those conferences?
`
`A. There's a number of conferences such as AIPLA and
`
` LES, local bar organizations, federal bar, you
`
` know, a number of legal groups, and then there's a
`
` number of more technology-oriented meetings that
`
` people attend such as BIO, and trade shows, and
`
`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Minnesota
`1-877-489-0367
`www.deposition.com
`
`

`
`BRIAN BATZLI May 3, 2016
`
`Page 14
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` things like that that we attend either on our own
`
` or with together with our clients.
`
`Q. Do Merchant & Gould attorneys attend intellectual
`
` property owners association IPO?
`
`A. We have people attend the IPO meeting, but I'm not
`
` sure that anyone attended the last meeting, but
`
` historically we have people attend.
`
`Q. Do M&G lawyers go to the licensing executive
`
` society meetings?
`
`A. Yes. We have people who are active in the
`
` organization or members of the organization. I'm
`
` unaware of the exact attendance.
`
`Q. Do M&G attorneys go to AIPLA?
`
`A. Yes. I'm very active at AIPLA, and there are
`
` several people who attend the meetings. The mid
`
` winter meeting was attended by three or four other
`
` Merchant & Gould attorneys in addition to myself.
`
`Q. Do Merchant & Gould attorneys go to the INTA
`
` meetings?
`
`A. Yes. Generally we will have upward of 20 people
`
` attend the INTA meeting. Some attend to visit
`
` with corporate clients. We normally have a
`
` reception that is very well attended by hundreds
`
` of the INTA attendees, and so we have several
`
` people registered, several people attend our
`
`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Minnesota
`1-877-489-0367
`www.deposition.com
`
`

`
`BRIAN BATZLI May 3, 2016
`
`Page 15
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` reception, a number of people attend in order to
`
` visit one or two clients or a foreign associates
`
` if they have issues that they wish to discuss.
`
`Q. Over what period of time have M&G lawyers attended
`
` these various conferences? To your knowledge.
`
`A. To my knowledge, for a significant period of time,
`
` I've been asked at AIPLA how Bobby Edell is doing.
`
` Unfortunately Mr. Edell passed away a number of
`
` years ago, but he was at attending AIPLA meetings
`
` back in the 70s as I understand it.
`
` Paul Welter introduced me to a number of
`
` the foreign associates in South America when I
`
` first started attending in the early 90s, and it
`
` was clear to me that he had attended for years and
`
` was introducing me to people that he had known for
`
` years. We have had a number of attorneys over the
`
` years that they go year, after year, after year,
`
` and have held committee positions, and are very
`
` well known at the meetings.
`
`Q. Do Merchant & Gould attorneys serve on committees
`
` on any of these organizations?
`
`A. Yes. We've had a number of people active in -- at
`
` AIPLA. We've had several people as members of the
`
` board of directors over the years including
`
` Charles Berman, and Denise Kettelberger, and John
`
`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Minnesota
`1-877-489-0367
`www.deposition.com
`
`

`
`BRIAN BATZLI May 3, 2016
`
`Page 16
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` P Sumner have all served on the board. The -- at
`
` -- and just a number of committees. Denise was
`
` very active in the BIO committee and other
`
` committees. I've been active in the electronics
`
` committee for -- since I started attending the
`
` meetings in the early 90s. I've chaired the IP
`
` and Latin America committee, the Merchant
`
` technology committees, and have been the chair for
`
` a number of subcommittees for the electronic and
`
` computer practice committee at AIPLA.
`
`Q. Over what period of time has your law firm
`
` operated with international colleagues and done
`
` work with people from other countries?
`
`A. I don't have an exact date, but I know that when I
`
` joined the firm in 1987 it was a robust practice
`
` with considerable work being done with Europe,
`
` Canada, and Japan, and Korea. In those areas, we
`
` had a particularly strong practice when I joined
`
` the firm in 1987.
`
`Q. When was the law firm originally founded?
`
`A. Our firm was founded in 1900, and so we have been
`
` around for 116 years now.
`
`Q. Has it been in continuous operation since founding
`
` in 190?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Minnesota
`1-877-489-0367
`www.deposition.com
`
`

`
`BRIAN BATZLI May 3, 2016
`
`Page 17
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Q. How has the firm grown over that period of time?
`
`A. Well, in 1900, it was one of the original
`
` Merchants. At some period of time, his two sons
`
` joined him. One was an agent, one was an
`
` attorney. John Gould joined the firm in 1954.
`
` They wanted someone who could bring litigation
`
` experience or practice to the firm.
`
` John became a partner in 1960, and I've
`
` always found that incredible because it was the
`
` year I was born. He was already a partner. He
`
` came into the firm all -- virtually almost every
`
` day until he passed away about a year ago, and
`
` maybe the last six months he didn't come in, but
`
` up until that time, he was coming in almost every
`
` day.
`
` The firm, once John joined it, started
`
` growing, and they started hiring people in the mid
`
` 60s. That group of people became people that were
`
` placed on the letterhead, and of course that was
`
` the group that was really the Merchant & Gould
`
` Smith Edell Welter and Schmidt. From there when I
`
` joined the firm in 1987, I believe I was the 35th
`
` attorney, and so since then, we have grown to
`
` around between 100 and 105 attorneys right now,
`
` and we have a number of technical advisor staff,
`
`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Minnesota
`1-877-489-0367
`www.deposition.com
`
`

`
`BRIAN BATZLI May 3, 2016
`
`Page 18
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` scientists, et cetera. It's grown from being a
`
` family firm back in the early 1900s to the firm it
`
` is today.
`
`Q. How has the number of offices changed over that
`
` period of time?
`
`A. We opened a Saint Paul office. There was a
`
` rivalry between Minneapolis and Saint Paul back in
`
` the day, and to become part of the community, I
`
` want to say the late 60s, the Saint Paul office
`
` was opened. That office was opened for about 30
`
` years until the corporations in Minneapolis and
`
` Saint Paul really decided that they could work
`
` with each other, the cities.
`
` We opened a Los Angeles office in the late
`
` 80s. That was open for ten years I think. We
`
` really started opening our current offices in the
`
` late 90s. We opened Denver, Atlanta, and Seattle
`
` right around 1998 to 2000, and so we now have a
`
` constellation of about eight offices around the
`
` US, and we have done it in order to have a
`
` national footprint with our national client base.
`
`Q. How has the number of attorneys at the firm
`
` changed over the years?
`
`A. I think we did go from having that small family
`
` shop up to having 35 attorneys. When I joined, I
`
`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Minnesota
`1-877-489-0367
`www.deposition.com
`
`

`
`BRIAN BATZLI May 3, 2016
`
`Page 19
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` believe around 35, and now somewhere around 105.
`
` So the firm has grown and continued adding
`
` attorneys over the years.
`
`Q. Has the scope of the practice or the type of
`
` services being provided changed over those 116
`
` years?
`
`A. I think when John Gould joined in 1954 he added
`
` litigation capacity that I'm not sure was there
`
` before then. It's possible that they were doing
`
` litigation back then. I'm not aware of that
`
` exactly, but since John Gould joined, I'd say this
`
` firm has been a full service intellectual property
`
` boutique.
`
`Q. What type of work was the family law firm doing
`
` before John Gould joined?
`
`A. Intellectual property as well. They had the two
`
` sons, one attorney, one agent, and my
`
` understanding is they were doing -- for sure doing
`
` patents. I don't know what else.
`
`Q. Do you have any idea how many patents have issued
`
` where Merchant & Gould attorneys were the lawyers
`
` of record?
`
`A. I don't know that exact number. In looking at the
`
` statistics, I'm trying to think of the
`
` publication, IP Law Today maybe, but I don't know
`
`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Minnesota
`1-877-489-0367
`www.deposition.com
`
`

`
`BRIAN BATZLI May 3, 2016
`
`Page 20
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` that off the top of my head.
`
`Q. Do you have any idea how many trademark
`
` registrations in the US were issued where Merchant
`
` & Gould attorneys were the filing correspondents?
`
`A. It's like patents, thousands, but I don't know the
`
` exact number.
`
`Q. I'm going to show you an exhibit that has been
`
` previously marked during the earlier deposition of
`
` John Gould. It's petitioner's Exhibit 3.
`
` MR. CLIFFORD: Do you have that Counsel, or
`
` do you want me to give you --
`
` MS. HOUSEY: I don't have that.
`
` MR. CLIFFORD: I think we sent you another
`
` copy of it today, and I can mark it as the next
`
` exhibit, or we can refer to it as John Gould
`
` Exhibit --
`
` MS. HOUSEY: Let's mark it as the next
`
` exhibit for continuity. Is there a Bates number?
`
` MR. CLIFFORD: Yes. The Bates number is 79
`
` through 112, and it's a brochure-pamphlet kind of
`
` thing. The title is 100 Years Advancing
`
` Innovation, Merchant & Gould 100 Years of IP Law.
`
` MS. HOUSEY: Yes. I have that. Thank you.
`
` MR. CLIFFORD: I'll have that marked as
`
` Exhibit 28. We'll have to work out how to avoid a
`
`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Minnesota
`1-877-489-0367
`www.deposition.com
`
`

`
`BRIAN BATZLI May 3, 2016
`
`Page 21
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` duplicate filing with the board.
`
` (Whereupon the material was marked for
`
` identification as Exhibit 28.)
`
` BY MR. CLIFFORD:
`
`Q. Please take a moment and take a look at that and
`
` make sure you're familiar with it, and I'll ask
`
` you a couple of questions about it.
`
`A. Okay.
`
`Q. Are you familiar with that document?
`
`A. Yes I am.
`
`Q. What is it?
`
`A. It was a booklet that was prepared at Merchant &
`
` Gould's 100 year anniversary.
`
`Q. What is the nature of that material generally?
`
`A. It talks historically about the attorneys, the
`
` founders, the -- some of the original patent work,
`
` a number of the people that were employed for a
`
` significant number of years, and as well as a
`
` number of the inventions that the firm worked on,
`
` and clients that the firm has represented over the
`
` years.
`
`Q. What was done with that document? If you know.
`
`A. It was provided -- there was a celebration, a 100
`
` year celebration. Copies were given to all of the
`
` attendees. Each attorney in the firm brought
`
`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Minnesota
`1-877-489-0367
`www.deposition.com
`
`

`
`BRIAN BATZLI May 3, 2016
`
`Page 22
`
` their spouse or significant other as well as
`
` introducing one or more clients, and so -- and
`
` people in the local community, and so each person
`
` was given a copy of that booklet. In addition,
`
` copies were provided to people who could not make
`
` the celebration.
`
`Q. Do you see the trademark M&G anywhere within
`
` Exhibit 28?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Q. Where?
`
`A. Well, it's on -- it's the second page in the
`
` exhibit. It's the Bates number 80. There's a
`
` celebrating a century of innovation, a 100 inside
`
` a circle with an M&G toward the bottom of the
`
` circle.
`
`Q. Are you familiar with the trademarks of Merchant &
`
` Gould?
`
`A. Yes. I'm generally familiar with that.
`
`Q. What are the ones at that you're familiar with,
`
` the trademarks?
`
`A. I'm familiar with the Merchant & Gould mark as
`
` well as M&G, and the M&G stylized with the M
`
` ampersand G.
`
`Q. How frequently do you encounter those particular
`
` trademarks?
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Minnesota
`1-877-489-0367
`www.deposition.com
`
`

`
`BRIAN BATZLI May 3, 2016
`
`Page 23
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`A. Constantly. Every day.
`
`Q. Does your firm use those trademarks that you've
`
` mentioned in any particular way?
`
`A. Well, we use them in advertising, we use them on
`
` our brochures. We've used them in connection with
`
` our biographies of our practice section. We use
`
` it on our Web site. We use it on our promotional
`
` materials that we give away.
`
` The M&G is used in our reference numbers
`
` that are on virtually every document, letter we
`
` send out to clients and on reports. It's used in
`
` our internal documents, our newsletters. The
`
` Merchant & Gould mark certainly has been used in
`
` connection with -- we had an electronics and
`
` computer law newsletter for a number of years, and
`
` the marks were used there.
`
` It's used in connection with each of our
`
` offices. We have a M&G in our reception area. So
`
` it's used throughout our organization, materials,
`
` work product.
`
`Q. Is it used in association with your primary
`
` business; namely the providing of legal services?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Q. Specifically with that primary business, how is it
`
` used?
`
`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Minnesota
`1-877-489-0367
`www.deposition.com
`
`

`
`BRIAN BATZLI May 3, 2016
`
`Page 24
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`A. It's used in connection with the watermark on our
`
` bond paper. It's used in connection with the
`
` reference numbers that I mentioned, the Merchant &
`
` Gould reference numbers. It's used in connection
`
` with a number of attorneys on the second pages of
`
` non-bond include the M&G in the left-h