Proceeding
`Party
`
`Correspondence
`Address
`
`Submission
`Filer's Name
`Filer's e-mail
`Signature
`Date
`Attachments
`
`Trademark Trial and Appeal Board Electronic Filing System. http://estta.uspto.gov
`ESTTA692471
`ESTTA Tracking number:
`08/28/2015
`
`Filing date:
`IN THE UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`BEFORE THE TRADEMARK TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`92056833
`Plaintiff
`Poly-America, L.P.
`JERRY R SELINGER
`PATTERSON & SHERIDAN LLP
`1700 PACIFIC AVE, SUITE 2650
`DALLAS, TX 75201
`UNITED STATES
`jselinger@pattersonsheridan.com, gparker@pattersonsheridan.com
`Other Motions/Papers
`Jerry R. Selinger
`jselinger@pattersonsheridan.com, gparker@pattersonsheridan.com
`/Jerry R. Selinger/
`08/28/2015
`Selinger Exhibit F - Public.pdf(709270 bytes )
`Selinger Exhibit G.pdf(1796016 bytes )
`Selinger Exhibit H.pdf(439888 bytes )
`Selinger Exhibit I.pdf(2135865 bytes )
`Selinger Exhibit J.pdf(1918379 bytes )
`Selinger Exhibit K.pdf(18551 bytes )
`Selinger Exhibit L.pdf(1880853 bytes )
`Selinger Exhibit M.pdf(246230 bytes )
`Selinger Exhibit N.pdf(399572 bytes )
`Selinger Exhibit O.pdf(275288 bytes )
`Selinger Exhibit P.pdf(1854004 bytes )
`Selinger Exhibit Q.pdf(801506 bytes )
`Selinger Exhibit R.pdf(273762 bytes )
`Selinger Exhibit S.pdf(2047998 bytes )
`Selinger Exhibit T.pdf(1989157 bytes )
`Selinger Exhibit U. - Public.pdf(7434 bytes )
`Selinger Exhibit V - Public.pdf(7432 bytes )
`Selinger Exhibit W.pdf(752733 bytes )
`Selinger Exhibit X.pdf(21776 bytes )
`
`
`Party
`
`Correspondence
`Address
`
`Submission
`Filer's Name
`Filer's e-mail
`Signature
`Date
`Attachments
`
`Trademark Trial and Appeal Board Electronic Filing System. http://estta.uspto.gov
`ESTTA692471
`ESTTA Tracking number:
`08/28/2015
`
`Filing date:
`IN THE UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`BEFORE THE TRADEMARK TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`92056833
`Plaintiff
`Poly-America, L.P.
`JERRY R SELINGER
`PATTERSON & SHERIDAN LLP
`1700 PACIFIC AVE, SUITE 2650
`DALLAS, TX 75201
`UNITED STATES
`jselinger@pattersonsheridan.com, gparker@pattersonsheridan.com
`Other Motions/Papers
`Jerry R. Selinger
`jselinger@pattersonsheridan.com, gparker@pattersonsheridan.com
`/Jerry R. Selinger/
`08/28/2015
`Selinger Exhibit F - Public.pdf(709270 bytes )
`Selinger Exhibit G.pdf(1796016 bytes )
`Selinger Exhibit H.pdf(439888 bytes )
`Selinger Exhibit I.pdf(2135865 bytes )
`Selinger Exhibit J.pdf(1918379 bytes )
`Selinger Exhibit K.pdf(18551 bytes )
`Selinger Exhibit L.pdf(1880853 bytes )
`Selinger Exhibit M.pdf(246230 bytes )
`Selinger Exhibit N.pdf(399572 bytes )
`Selinger Exhibit O.pdf(275288 bytes )
`Selinger Exhibit P.pdf(1854004 bytes )
`Selinger Exhibit Q.pdf(801506 bytes )
`Selinger Exhibit R.pdf(273762 bytes )
`Selinger Exhibit S.pdf(2047998 bytes )
`Selinger Exhibit T.pdf(1989157 bytes )
`Selinger Exhibit U. - Public.pdf(7434 bytes )
`Selinger Exhibit V - Public.pdf(7432 bytes )
`Selinger Exhibit W.pdf(752733 bytes )
`Selinger Exhibit X.pdf(21776 bytes )
`
`
`
`IN THE UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`BEFORE THE TRADEMARK TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`
`POLY-AMERICA, L.P.
`
`
`
`Petitioner/Plaintiff,
`
`
`
`vs.
`
`
`ILLINOIS TOOL WORKS INC.,
`
`
`
`Registrant/Defendant
`
`
`
`
`Cancellation No. 92/056,833
`
`Registration No. 946,120
`Registration No. 1,055,114
`Registration No. 1,294,243
`
`
`§
`§
`§
`§
`§
`§
`§
`§
`§
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`
`
`
`
`SELINGER DECLARATION – EXHIBIT F
`PUBLIC
`
`
`
`
`
`
`TRADE SECRET/COMMERCIALLY SENSITIVE
`ATTORNEYS' EYES ONLY
`
`Page 1
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` IN THE UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
` BEFORE THE TRADEMARK TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`POLY-AMERICA, L.P., )
`
` )
`
` Petitioner, )
`
` ) Cancellation No. 92056833
`
`VS. )
`
` ) Registration Nos. 946120,
`
`ILLINOIS TOOL WORKS, INC., ) 1055114, 1294243
`
` )
`
` Registrant. )
`
` DEPOSITION OF
`
` ANTHONY BERTRAND
`
` AS THE CORPORATE REPRESENTATIVE OF
`
` POLY-AMERICA, L.P.
`
` MAY 28, 2014
`
` TRADE SECRET/COMMERCIALLY SENSITIVE
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` ATTORNEYS' EYES ONLY
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`212-279-9424
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`VERITEXT REPORTING COMPANY
`www.veritext.com
`
`212-490-3430
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`TRADE SECRET/COMMERCIALLY SENSITIVE
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`Page 2
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` DEPOSITION of ANTHONY BERTRAND,
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`produced as a witness at the instance of the
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`Registrant, and duly sworn, was taken in the
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`above-styled and -numbered cause on the 28th day of
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`May, 2014, from 9:34 a.m. to 12:07 p.m., before
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`Therese J. Casterline, Registered Merit Reporter,
`
`Certified Realtime Reporter, Certified Shorthand
`
`Reporter in and for the State of Texas, reported by
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`machine shorthand, at the offices of Patterson &
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`Sheridan, LLP, 1700 Pacific Avenue, Suite 2650, in the
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`City of Dallas, County of Dallas, State of Texas,
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`pursuant to the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure and
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`the provisions stated on the record.
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`VERITEXT REPORTING COMPANY
`www.veritext.com
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`212-490-3430
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`TRADE SECRET/COMMERCIALLY SENSITIVE
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`Page 3
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` A P P E A R A N C E S
`
`F O R T H E P E T I T I O N E R :
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` M r . J e r r y R . S e l i n g e r
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` P A T T E R S O N & S H E R I D A N , L L P
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` 1 7 0 0 P a c i f i c A v e n u e
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` S u i t e 2 6 5 0
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` D a l l a s , T e x a s 7 5 2 0 1
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`F O R T H E R E G I S T R A N T :
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` M r . M a r k J . L i s s
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` L E Y D I G , V O I T & M A Y E R , L T D .
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` T w o P r u d e n t i a l P l a z a
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` 1 8 0 N o r t h S t e t s o n A v e n u e
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`A L S O P R E S E N T :
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` M r . B r a n d o n L e e
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`212-490-3430
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`Page 6
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` P R O C E E D I N G S
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` (Per agreement of counsel, reading of the
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` Federal introduction per Rule 30(b)(5)
`
` was waived.)
`
` ANTHONY BERTRAND,
`
`having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:
`
` EXAMINATION
`
`BY MR. LISS:
`
` Q. Can you state your name, please.
`
` A. Anthony Bertrand.
`
` Q. And how do you spell your last name?
`
` A. B-E-R-T-R-A-N-D.
`
` Q. And, Mr. Bertrand, are you employed?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. And where are you employed?
`
` A. In Grand Prairie, Texas by Poly-America.
`
` Q. And, again, just generally, can you describe
`
`the business activity of Poly-America.
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` A. Poly-America is a plastics manufacturer,
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`product lines ranging from trash bags to plastic
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`sheeting to agricultural films to geomembrane liners,
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`shrink films.
`
` Q. Does Poly-America manufacture all those
`
`products itself?
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` A. Yes.
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`212-279-9424
`
`VERITEXT REPORTING COMPANY
`www.veritext.com
`
`212-490-3430
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`Page 7
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` Q. Does Poly-America import products?
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` A. Yes.
`
` Q. What products do they import?
`
` A. We import some tape products that we resell.
`
` Q. Anything else?
`
` A. Nothing I can think of immediately.
`
` Q. Do you import any bag products?
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` A. No.
`
` Q. Do you import any components you use to make
`
`bag products?
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` A. Can you define "components"?
`
` Q. You know, the raw materials that go into the
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`bags, the boxes that house the bags.
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` A. Boxes, no. Raw materials, we have at points
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`in time.
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` Q. How about currently?
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` A. No.
`
` Q. And what types of raw materials has
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`Poly-America imported from time to time to use as a
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`component of the bags?
`
` A. Titanium dioxide.
`
` Q. And what is that?
`
` A. It's used as a whitener to turn bags white.
`
` Q. Anything else?
`
` A. Nothing I can think of immediately. There'd
`
`212-279-9424
`
`VERITEXT REPORTING COMPANY
`www.veritext.com
`
`212-490-3430
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`Page 8
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`be nothing large volume.
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` MR. SELINGER: Counsel, can we have the
`
`same agreements as we did yesterday with Mr. Ross, that
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`as the protective order stands, 30 days is designated
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`the highest level of confidentiality, and then we'll
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`designate as appropriate, and in the meantime, you have
`
`the ability at a very high level to communicate with
`
`your client about the deposition?
`
` MR. LISS: That's correct, yes.
`
` MR. SELINGER: Thank you.
`
` Q. And how long have you been vice president of
`
`procurement at Poly-America?
`
` A. Approximately two years.
`
` Q. And prior to that, were you employed at
`
`Poly-America?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. And what did you do there?
`
` A. I was vice president.
`
` Q. Any particular area you were vice president?
`
` A. No.
`
` Q. And how long had you been vice president of
`
`Poly-America?
`
` A. Approximately five or six years in that role.
`
` Q. When did you join Poly-America?
`
` A. 1980.
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`212-279-9424
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`www.veritext.com
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`212-490-3430
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`Page 11
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` A. No.
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` Q. Do they sell any reclosable plastic bags?
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` A. Define "reclosable."
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` Q. Yeah, and, I guess, I understand trash bags do
`
`close. I guess you can open and close them. What I
`
`mean by closable is that they become more airtight, and
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`you can open them and close them, so not trash bags but
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`storage bags.
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` A. No.
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` Q. Does Poly-America have plans to sell
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`reclosable food storage bags?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. And what are those plans?
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` A. I don't specifically know the business plans.
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`I only know what I've been tasked to develop the
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`manufacturing process for.
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` Q. And what -- what steps have you taken, if any,
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`to develop the manufacturing process for reclosable
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`food storage bags?
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` A. Well, we've taken multiple steps. We've
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`worked on sourcing alternatives for importing bags. We
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`have acquired the manufacturing equipment necessary for
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`the development process and proceeded with that
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`development.
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` Q. And you indicated you developed sources for
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`Page 12
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`the bags. What do you mean by that?
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` A. Trips to Asia to visit plants and look at
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`their product lines.
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` Q. And where in Asia did you go?
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` A. Which trip?
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` Q. All of them.
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` A. Thailand, Malaysia, China.
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` Q. Malaysia -- I'm sorry, China?
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` A. Yes.
`
` Q. And have you selected a source -- has the
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`company decided that if it got into the reclosable
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`kitchen food storage bag business, it would buy
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`products from -- bags overseas and have them imported
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`into the United States?
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` A. Could you repeat that question?
`
` Q. Yeah.
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` Has the company decided that if they do
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`decide -- that if they go into this business of the
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`kitchen storage bags that they'll source the products
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`from some other nation as compared to manufacturing
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`them domestically?
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` A. I think that's an alternative. I don't know
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`that a final decision has been made.
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` Q. Have you signed any agreements with any Asian
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`potential suppliers of kitchen storage bags?
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`Page 13
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` A. No.
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` Q. Is it your understanding the only reason the
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`company is not in the kitchen storage bag business
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`today is this trademark dispute?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. Do you know for a fact that you have customers
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`for the products?
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` A. I don't have any direct contact with
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`customers. I know that our current customer base today
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`also sells reclosable bags.
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` Q. You don't know if the company has ready,
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`willing, and able buyers for reclosable plastic bags
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`today?
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` A. Given the fact that all of our current
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`customers sell reclosable bags and that we are a
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`preferred supplier with most of those customers, that
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`the opportunity exists for that.
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` Q. But I'm -- I understand the -- the company's
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`position on that. But I'm saying, is there any
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`outstanding purchase orders or contracts with customers
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`between Poly-America and its customers?
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` A. I have no access to that information.
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` Q. If Poly-America was successful in this
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`cancellation action, do you know how long it would take
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`for Poly-America to gear up to actually start selling
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`Page 14
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`reclosable food storage bags?
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` A. I would -- and this is purely a guess -- a
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`couple of months.
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` Q. Okay. Just so the record is clear, when we're
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`talking food storage bags, we're talking bags such as
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`the Ziploc bag, as previously marked yesterday as
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`Exhibit 5; is that correct?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Now, you said also you purchased machinery.
`
`What did you purchase?
`
` A. We've got profile extrusion equipment --
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` Q. Okay. Let me interrupt you for a second. I'm
`
`sorry.
`
` Did you purchase equipment specifically
`
`with the idea of selling kitchen food storage bags,
`
`such as Exhibit 5?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Okay. What -- what did you purchase with that
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`in mind?
`
` Q. Go a little slower for me.
`
` A. I'm sorry.
`
` Q. Okay.
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`212-279-9424
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`www.veritext.com
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`212-490-3430
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` A. -- bag machines, spooling and unspooling
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`equipment, chiller systems --
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` Q. Chiller?
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` A. Chiller, yes.
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` I mean, there's probably 1,000 other small
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`components, but those are the major components.
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` Q. And which method would your company use?
`
` A. I don't know that a final decision has been
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`made yet. Both are viable options.
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` Q. With the equipment you currently have, both
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`would be viable options?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Okay. So when -- when we're talking about the
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`profile -- let's look at Exhibit 4. Can you tell me
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`what you're talking about when you're talking about the
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`212-490-3430
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`profile.
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` A. The profile we consider to be that zipper
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`portion on the top, the close and reclosable portion.
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` Q. So going back to -- to the -- the -- is --
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`would you call the zipper the area that you would press
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`to close?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. Okay. And does the profile include what
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`appears to be heavier plastic below the zipper?
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` A. That can be done in either method that we
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`could extrude a flange, the top portion of the bag that
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`includes that heavier area, and the grip strips, or we
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`could have a cast film that has a heavier area that
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`then the -- the zipper and any other, you know -- you
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`know, grip strips or lines that we want on it at that
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`point in time.
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` Q. Could you make it -- the grip strips, by the
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`way, just so the record's clear, are these uneven or --
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`I don't know what you would call -- they come out of
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`the plastic and make it easier to grip the top of the
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`bag?
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` A. To open it, yes.
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` Q. Yeah. And -- but that whole section,
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`including the zipper and the grip strips, is the
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`profile of the bag; is that right?
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`easy to make, Exhibit 4 and Exhibit 5?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. And why is that, that it doesn't -- the more
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`you add to manufacturing a product, the more quality
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`control you need, the more margin of error there may
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`be? Is that sort of logical?
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` A. Maybe if you're not in plastics manufacturing.
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`Adding a pigment is simply adding another component to
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`a resonance system which meters in the appropriate
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`additives. So it's not complex and done across all of
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`our product lines.
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` Q. And the pigment adds cost to the manufacturing
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`process?
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` A. Virtually nothing.
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` Q. Is the pigment free?
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` A. No, the pigment's not free.
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` Q. And do you need to have special equipment to
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`extrude the color into the bag?
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` A. Special equipment, no.
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` Q. Well, is there different equipment used to
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`make Exhibit 4 or -- as compared to Exhibit 5?
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` A. No.
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` Q. How do you get the color in?
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` A. It's a concentrate. It's a pelletized pigment
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`that goes into a resin hopper, along with the other raw
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`materials.
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` Q. Do you use a -- do you have to add the pigment
`
`to -- when you make Exhibit 4?
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` MR. SELINGER: Objection, form.
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` A. No.
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` MR. SELINGER: Sorry.
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` Q. So there is an extra step between Exhibit 4
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`and Exhibit 5?
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` A. If you want to call it that. I wouldn't
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`really call it an extra step. Oftentimes there are
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`multiple components going into any of these resin
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`combinations.
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` Q. And have you ever had problems when you made
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`color on your other bag products where the color is --
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`doesn't match your specifications?
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` A. Not that I recall.
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` Q. So the color comes out perfect every time?
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` A. Within an acceptable range.
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` Q. And how do you test the range?
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` A. Generally, you'll test opacity.
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` Q. And does Poly-America test the range?
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` A. On some products, the opacity is tested.
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` Q. What products are those?
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` A. Silage films, some trash bag products. That's
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`all I'm familiar with right now. There could be more.
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` Q. When you make the pigment, do you buy a stock
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`color, or do you mix different pigments to come up with
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`a color?
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` A. Generally, buy a stock color.
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` Q. And in the manufacturing process, does
`
`Poly-America need to use color to make plastic bags?
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` A. Which plastic bags are you referring to?
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` Q. Any plastic bags.
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` MR. SELINGER: Objection, form.
`
` A. To meet the customer specifications, yes.
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` Q. But, I mean, to make the bags work.
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` A. To make them work? In some applications, yes.
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` Q. So in your trash bags, some are white; some
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`are black with an orange ribbon on top, if you will?
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` A. Uh-huh.
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` Q. Do you call -- what do you call it, the orange
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`part?
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` A. The draw tape.
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` Q. Draw tape.
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` If you made that -- instead of white, if
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`you made that green, would the bag be less effective as
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`a trash bag?
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` A. I mean, I really don't know the answer to
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`that. The -- I don't know how much color can affect
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`the end-use application.
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` Q. How could color affect the use application of
`
`a trash bag?
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` A. Too much color could cause the product to
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`degrade, not enough might not give it enough protection
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`or enough opacity for the consumer to feel the product
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`is of adequate quality.
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` Q. In the case of trash bags, does adding color
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`pigment to the bags somehow strengthen the bags?
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` A. Not unless it's formulated to do so.
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` Q. Would it be harder to make Exhibit 4 than
`
`Exhibit 5 for Poly-America?
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` MR. SELINGER: Objection, form.
`
` A. I don't think so.
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` Q. Would Exhibit 4 -- the manufacturing of
`
`Exhibit 4 and Exhibit 5 entail the same basic process;
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`other than Exhibit 5, you would add pigment to certain
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`extruded areas of the bag?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Now, Mr. Ross yesterday testified that you had
`
`made some sample reclosable bags just to test to see if
`
`you could do it. Were you involved in that process?
`
` A. Yes.
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` Q. And did those bags have color?
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` A. Some had color; some didn't have color.
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` Q. Was there any difference at all in the steps
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`taken to make the ones with versus without color?
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` A. Other than adding the pigment, no.
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` Q. And where did you get the pigment?
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` A. As I recall, for the most part we used
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`pigments that we had in stock already.
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` Q. Did you change the manufacturing process at
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`all for the ones that had color?
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` A. No.
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` Q. Was it easier to do the ones with color?
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` A. Essentially no different.
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` Q. And how much did you spend for all that
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`equipment?
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` Q. And is that equipment being used today?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. And what's it being used for?
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` A. Further developmental work.
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`we're going to do a test, we need some green, some
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`yellow, some blue, can you run a bunch, we're going to
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`test them? Has that occurred?
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` A. No.
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` Q. Do you know what color scheme is under
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`consideration?
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` A. No, I don't.
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` Q. And why -- why haven't you launched the
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`kitchen storage bag products yet?
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` A. Recently or -- could you -- could you clarify
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`that question maybe a little bit more?
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` Q. Well, when did you buy the equipment?
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` A. 2010.
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` Q. And do you need any more equipment if you were
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`to have substantial customers for food storage bags?
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` A. It depends on what's considered a substantial
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`customer. So it's going to be based upon, obviously,
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`the volume of that customer and what we augment with
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`importing. But we could start to service any customer
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`today, or within a few months.
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` Q. So you bought this equipment in 2010, and --
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`but you haven't made a commercialized product from this
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`equipment; is that right?
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` A. Correct.
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` Q. And why is that?
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` A. Well, initially, it was the potential for the
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`Minigrip purchase that stopped development at that
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`point in time, because there was, I guess, a high
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`probability that that might occur, which would have
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`gotten Poly-America into the market without having to
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`go through the developmental process and the expense of
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`installing new equipment.
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` Q. Okay. And then when that deal did not go
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`forward, why haven't you used the equipment to make
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`kitchen storage bags?
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` A. The color line has been the impediment.
`
` Q. Has Poly-America explored the market for food
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`storage bags, such as Exhibit 4, that don't show color?
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` MR. SELINGER: You're -- you're outside of
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`what he's been designated for in his corporate
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`capacity. He can answer in his individual capacity.
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` MR. LISS: Well, he was designated, I
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`think, for number 1.
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` MR. SELINGER: He -- he was. We may -- we
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`may disagree on that, but it may not matter at the end,
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`so he can still answer.
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` MR. LISS: Can you repeat the last
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`question, please.
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` (Record read.)
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` A. I know that we have collected -- collected
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`easier to make the lines of color in any particular
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`location on the back?
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` A. You know, that's a very broad statement. As
`
`it relates to this particular design, no.
`
` Q. Okay. In other designs, the answer might be
`
`yes?
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` A. Well, obviously, if you wanted to run five
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`different colors across the same side, that's more
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`complicated than one color per side or two colors per
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`side.
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` Q. Okay. So the more colors per side, the more
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`complicated?
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` A. Because you've got more streams of polymer
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`feeding in.
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` Q. Okay. Is it easier to put the color on the
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`zipper as compared to the flange, because the zipper is
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`thicker, or it doesn't matter?
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` A. It doesn't matter.
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` MR. LISS: Okay. So what number did we
`
`leave off on yesterday?
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` THE REPORTER: I believe it was 32.
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` MR. LISS: 32.
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` Let's have this as 33, please. 33.
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` (Exhibit Number 33 marked.)
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` Q. The reporter just handed you what was marked
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`as Exhibit 33.
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` Can you tell me what that is, please.
`
` A. It's an e-mail from George Hall to myself,
`
`Isaac Hull, Michael Ross, and Trent Mallory.
`
` Q. And who is George Hall?
`
` A. George was the chief operating officer prior
`
`to his retirement.
`
` Q. Of Poly-America?
`
` A. Correct.
`
` Q. And Isaac Hull?
`
` A. Isaac Hull, I'm not sure what his capacity was
`
`at that point in time. Today he works in accounting.
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`I'm not sure what his role was at that time.
`
` Q. So everyone on this e-mail in April of 2010
`
`was a Poly-America employee?
`
` A. Correct.
`
` Q. And were you taking a study of the Glad and
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`Presto quart and gallon bags?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Is the quart bag a food storage bag or a trash
`
`bag, do you know, or something else?
`
` A. The quart bag, as it's referred to here, is a
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`food storage bag.
`
` Q. And why was Poly-America looking at the Glad
`
`and Presto quart bags?
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` A. At that point in time, I think that every
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`supplier was -- was looked at, every potential
`
`competitor, to understand what their products looked
`
`like in the marketplace.
`
` Q. Okay. The second paragraph references a
`
`sandwich bag we, quote, designed, end of quote,
`
`yesterday.
`
` Do you see that in the second paragraph?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Do you know what Mr. Hall is referencing
`
`there?
`
` A. I believe that referred to some of the basic
`
`developmental designs that we started with initially.
`
` Q. And when he's talking about the strips, is he
`
`talking about color or the -- the grip strips? Does
`
`Exhibit 5 have a grip strip?
`
` A. Yes, it does.
`
` Q. And what -- can you just show it to me.
`
` A. The grip strip is that area of ridges that we
`
`refer to as a grip strip because you open the bag with
`
`that.
`
` Q. That's where the consumer is meant to grip the
`
`bag?
`
` A. Preferably that's where they would grip the
`
`bag when opening it, yes.
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`what that was.
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` MR. LISS: 34, please.
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` (Exhibit Number 34 marked.)
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` Q. What is Exhibit 34?
`
` A. That looks like notes from a project meeting
`
`related to profile bags.
`
` Q. That's kitchen storage -- I'm sorry -- food
`
`storage bags?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Okay. On the first page, it's number 6995,
`
`the last bullet point says, Maguire blenders, LL + LD +
`
`color + spare.
`
` Do you see that?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Do you know what that means?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. What -- what does that mean?
`
` A. That's the ratio of the blender setup.
`
` Q. What do you need blenders for?
`
` A. To add the different components.
`
` Q. Do you need blenders to add the color?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. What else do you need blenders for?
`
` A. Slip, antiblock, resin.
`
` Q. What's the LL + LD + color? What's that
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`referencing there?
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` A. LL stands for linear low, LD stands for low
`
`density, color is rather obvious, and spare is an extra
`
`component blender.
`
` Q. Turn to the next page that's 6996.
`
` The fourth bullet point says, stacked
`
`binary dividers for color distribution.
`
` What is that?
`
` A. Bear with me. I have to read a couple of
`
`other bullet points to get to that one to understand.
`
` Q. Take your time.
`
` A. I believe that's referring to the dye
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`separation system to be able to have every color
`
`available or multiple colors available.
`
` Q. And if you were going to make a bag such as
`
`Exhibit 4, would you need a dye separation system?
`
` A. No.
`
` Q. Looking at Exhibit 5 versus Exhibit 6, they
`
`both have multiple colored lines on them. Some are --
`
`Exhibit 6 appears on the zipper, it's a thicker or
`
`wider line; would you agree with that?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Does the width or density of the line impact
`
`the -- the cost of manufacturing the bag?
`
` A. Other than the -- the additional polymer, no.
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` Q. Okay. Going back to Exhibit 34, under the
`
`binary dividers, it says, 2 colors per profile, 3
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`colors required, for example -- can you help me
`
`understand what that means, sir, that -- if it's two
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`colors per profile, why are three colors required?
`
` A. I think at that time, the clear might have
`
`been considered a third color or it would provide for
`
`three colors.
`
` Q. But it does say -- on the female side, it
`
`says, female, green + color. And it doesn't identify a
`
`specific color. Do you see that?
`
` A. So that would provide for, then, two colors on
`
`a side.
`
` Q. I'm lost. The female side would have two
`
`colors?
`
` A. Could -- could potentially.
`
` Q. And this product was not -- the product
`
`described on Exhibit 34, was it ever manufactured?
`
` A. This is a preliminary specification sheet for
`
`the project. I think it was prior to equipment being
`
`purchased.
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`212-279-9424
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`VERITEXT REPORTING COMPANY
`www.veritext.com
`
`212-490-3430
`
`
`
`TRADE SECRET/COMMERCIALLY SENSITIVE
`ATTORNEYS' EYES ONLY
`
`Page 34
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` Q. Were they the vendors for the equipment you
`
`purchased?
`
` A. They were the vendor for the extrusion and
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`some of the profile equipment.
`
` Q. Okay. By the way, the equipment you
`
`purchased, we talked about at least some of it, where
`
`is it physically located?
`
` A. In Grand Prairie.
`
` Q. At your plant?
`
` A. Correct.
`
` Q. And how often is it in use?
`
` A. It's been used again recently, so
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`intermittently the last couple of years as we work on
`
`development of finalized product pending the outcome of
`
`these proceedings.
`
` (Exhibit Number 35 marked.)
`
` Q. Exhibit 35, can you tell me what I'm looking
`
`at there?
`
` A. Well, the -- the title of it is Reclosable Bag
`
`Specifications, and it lists different dimensions,
`
`opening and closing forces for various size reclosable
`
`212-279-9424
`
`VERITEXT REPORTING COMPANY
`www.veritext.com
`
`212-490-3430
`
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`TRADE SECRET/COMMERCIALLY SENSITIVE
`ATTORNEYS' EYES ONLY
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`Page 39
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`which has Bates numbers 0896 through and including
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`0900. Take a minute and look at that.
`
` A. Okay.
`
` Q. Can you generally describe what Exhibit 36 is?
`
` A. It's correspondence between Shika Wang and a
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`Chinese potential reclosable supplier.
`
` Q. And who is Shika Wang?
`
` A. He works for me in purchasing.
`
` Q.
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