`Party
`
`Correspondence
`Address
`
`Submission
`Filer's Name
`Filer's e-mail
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`Signature
`Date
`Attachments
`
`Trademark Trial and Appeal Board Electronic Filing System. http://estta.uspto.gov
`ESTTA548289
`ESTTA Tracking number:
`07/12/2013
`
`Filing date:
`IN THE UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`BEFORE THE TRADEMARK TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`91169544
`Plaintiff
`Allergan, Inc.
`KENNETH L WILTON
`SEYFARTH SHAW LLP
`2029 CENTURY PARK EAST, SUITE 3500
`LOS ANGELES, CA 90067-3021
`UNITED STATES
`kwilton@seyfarth.com, jsutherland@seyfarth.com,
`Hinchey_Susan@Allergan.com, kelko@seyfarth.com
`Testimony For Plaintiff
`Kenneth L. Wilton
`kwilton@seyfarth.com, jsutherland@seyfarth.com,
`Hinchey_Susan@Allergan.com, kelko@seyfarth.com
`/Kenneth L. Wilton/
`07/12/2013
`2012-06-27-12 Deposition of Mark Chaplin.pdf(115884 bytes )
`2012-06-27-12 Deposition of Mark Chaplin-Exhibit 1.pdf(110670 bytes )
`2012-06-27-12 Deposition of Mark Chaplin-Exhibit 2.pdf(292662 bytes )
`2012-06-27-12 Deposition of Mark Chaplin-Exhibit 3.pdf(353990 bytes )
`2012-06-27-12 Deposition of Mark Chaplin-Exhibit 4.pdf(298418 bytes )
`2012-06-27-12 Deposition of Mark Chaplin-Exhibit 5.pdf(363599 bytes )
`2012-06-27-12 Deposition of Mark Chaplin-Exhibit 6.pdf(2106505 bytes )
`2012-06-27-12 Deposition of Mark Chaplin-Exhibit 7.pdf(5437966 bytes )
`2012-06-27-12 Deposition of Mark Chaplin-Exhibit 8.pdf(955451 bytes )
`2012-06-27-12 Deposition of Mark Chaplin-Exhibit 9.pdf(681992 bytes )
`2012-06-27-12 Deposition of Mark Chaplin-Exhibit 10.pdf(2674348 bytes )
`2012-06-27-12 Deposition of Mark Chaplin-Exhibit 11.pdf(1889790 bytes )
`2012-06-27-12 Deposition of Mark Chaplin-Exhibit 12.pdf(3201418 bytes )
`2012-06-27-12 Deposition of Mark Chaplin-Exhibit 13.pdf(190135 bytes )
`2012-06-27-12 Deposition of Mark Chaplin-Exhibit 14.pdf(2720900 bytes )
`
`
`
`Mark Chaplin - 6/27/12
`
`US PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
`BEFORE THE TRADEMARK TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`ALLERGAN,
`
`INC.,
`
`CERTIFIEQ CGPY
`
`KRL GROUP,
`
`INC.,
`
`Opposer,
`
`Applicant.
`
`Opposition No.
`
`91169544
`
`DEPOSITION OF MARK CHAPLIN
`
`Irvine, California
`
`Wednesday, June 27, 2012
`
`Job Number:
`
`51136
`
`Reported by: NIKKI ROY
`
`CSR NO. 3052
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide — 877-702-9580
`
`
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`Mark Chaplin - 6/27/12
`
`Page 2
` Deposition of MARK CHAPLIN, taken on behalf of the
`Opposer, at 3161 Michelson Drive, Conference Room 1202,
`Irvine, California, on Wednesday, June 27, 2012 at
`8:24 a.m., before NIKKI ROY, CSR No. 3052.
`
`APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL:
`
`FOR THE OPPOSER:
` SEYFARTH SHAW
` BY: KENNETH L. WILTON, Attorney at Law
` 2029 Century Park East
` Los Angeles, California 90067
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`Mark Chaplin - 6/27/12
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`Page 3
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` I N D E X
`
`WITNESS EXAMINATION PAGE
`MARK CHAPLIN
` MR. WILTON 5
`
` E X H I B I T S
`
` NUMBER DESCRIPTION PAGE
`Exhibit 1 Notice of Testimony Deposition 5
` of Allergan, Inc.
`
`Exhibit 2 Worldwide Regulatory Status - GL 14
`
`Exhibit 3 BOTOX Cosmetic 2002 Print Media 17
` Plan
`Exhibit 4 BOTOX Cosmetic 2003 Print Media 18
` Plan
`
`Exhibit 5 BOTOX Cosmetic 2004 Print Media 20
` Plan
`Exhibit 6 Collection of documents, 24
` advertisements placed in
` magazines
`Exhibit 7 Collection of advertisements 26
`Exhibit 8 Copies of web page 32
`Exhibit 9 Copies of pages from website 34
` www.botoxcosmetic.com
`
`Exhibit 10 Pages from the botoxcosmetic.com 35
` website
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`Mark Chaplin - 6/27/12
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`Page 4
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` I N D E X (CONTINUED):
`
` EXHIBITS (CONTINUED):
` NUMBER DESCRIPTION PAGE
`Exhibit 12 Allergan annual report 2006 49
`Exhibit 13 Portion of page 2 from 50
` Exhibit 12
`
`Exhibit 14 Allergan annual report 2011 53
`
` QUESTIONS INSTRUCTED NOT TO ANSWER
`
` (None)
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` INFORMATION REQUESTED
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` (None)
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`Mark Chaplin - 6/27/12
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`Page 5
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` IRVINE, CALIFORNIA, WEDNESDAY, JUNE 27, 2012
` 8:24 A.M.
`
` MARK CHAPLIN
` called as a deponent and sworn in by
` the deposition officer, was examined
` and testified as follows:
`
` EXAMINATION
`BY MR. WILTON:
` Q. Good morning, Mr. Chaplin. How are you?
` A. Morning. Very well.
` Q. Glad to hear that.
` A. Perfect.
` MR. WILTON: Let me mark as Exhibit 1 to this
`deposition -- and this is really a housekeeping chore.
` (The document referred to was marked by
` the CSR as Deposition Exhibit 1 for
` identification and attached to the
` deposition transcript hereto.)
` MR. WILTON: It is a document entitled "Notice
`of Testimony Deposition of Allergan, Inc." stating that
`we'll be taking the deposition of Mr. Chaplin this
`morning at 8:00 a.m. at the offices of Gibson, Dunn &
`Crutcher in Irvine, California.
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`Mark Chaplin - 6/27/12
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`Page 6
` It is dated June 21, 2012 with a certificate of
`service sending it to the attorney for appellant KRL
`Group, Inc. both by e-mail and by mail. So notice was
`served and the attorney Mr. Rivera is not present.
`Stating the obvious.
` THE WITNESS: Uh-huh.
`BY MR. WILTON:
` Q. Where do you currently work?
` A. I currently work for Allergan.
` Q. And how long have you worked for Allergan?
` A. Allergan in total I've worked for over eight
`years now, and I've been working in the United States
`office for about a year and a half.
` Q. What was your first position at Allergan?
` A. First position was termed a product specialist.
` Q. And what were your duties and responsibilities
`as a product specialist?
` A. Duties were the promotion of BOTOX into the
`therapeutic market.
` Q. What do you mean by the "promotion of BOTOX
`into the therapeutic market"?
` A. So to make it easier, I mean, I was really a
`sales rep, as it were, for Allergan, the therapeutic
`market. We have two divisions within our organization
`with BOTOX. Part of that is sold for therapeutic
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`Mark Chaplin - 6/27/12
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`Page 7
`purposes, an example being spasticity or dystonia. The
`other part of our business is within the cosmetic
`industry.
` Q. And although I know everybody in the room knows
`what it is, can you tell us what the BOTOX product is?
` A. BOTOX is a neuromodulator, and it consists --
`it's a pharmaceutical product. It consists of botulinum
`toxin, along with some excipients, the excipients being
`human serum albumen and sodium chloride. And it works by
`relaxing the muscle, and in so doing can be used for
`therapeutic purposes or cosmetic purposes.
` MR. WILTON: And just for your edification, if
`you have any spelling issues, since it's just the three
`of us, go ahead and ask as we go along.
` Q. How long were you a product specialist at
`Allergan?
` A. I was a product specialist for about a year and
`a half.
` Q. And what's your next position?
` A. My next position was what was termed regional
`scientific services manager.
` Q. What were your duties as regional scientific
`services manager for Allergan?
` A. That was more as the term would suggest a more
`scientific-based role. It was dealing with scientific
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`requests, both internally and externally. So if -- to
`give an example, if a clinician had a specific high-brow
`question with regard to the science of botulinum toxin or
`indeed the disease area that would be passed on to a
`regional scientific expert rather than being dealt with
`by the product specialist who I previously was.
` Q. And with regard to your position as a regional
`scientific services manager, did you only work with the
`BOTOX product or did you work with other products?
` A. I only worked with the BOTOX product.
` Q. And how long were you a regional scientific
`services manager?
` A. I was a regional scientific services manager
`for approximately five years.
` Q. And what position did you take after that
`five-year period?
` A. After that five-year period I took a secondment
`position to work out of our Irvine headquarters in
`California. That was doing a job which is termed global
`strategic marketing. And I was a product manager within
`that department, and that was concerned solely with BOTOX
`Cosmetic, so I moved from the therapeutic area of BOTOX
`on to the cosmetic area of BOTOX.
` Q. And what are your duties or responsibilities as
`the global strategy marketing person for BOTOX?
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` A. BOTOX Cosmetic. And my responsibilities are
`looking at the life cycle management of BOTOX Cosmetic,
`really try to establish how to make this product continue
`to be successful in the future.
` So for an example, we may look at new
`indications that we would like to develop. We may look
`at improving the actual product we have, or may be as
`simple as even improving the delivery mechanism or indeed
`even the packaging.
` Q. And as in your role as global strategic
`marketing manager for the BOTOX Cosmetic product, are you
`involved with any of the day-to-day testing or promotion
`of the product?
` A. Yes, I am, in that I deal with the people, or I
`speak regularly with the people who are dealing with that
`side of the business on a at least a weekly, if not daily
`basis.
` Q. And just for the record, could you tell us what
`your education has been after high school?
` A. Okay. So I went to the University of
`St. Andrews and did a BSC in cell biology, and that was
`from the years of '88 to '92. In '92 I took a Ph.D.
`position at the University of Dundee studying in cell and
`microbiology. That was completed in about 1995.
` Q. And are both of those universities in Scotland?
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` A. Yes, they are.
` Q. Do you know generally the history of the
`product that is sold under the BOTOX trademark?
` A. Yes, I do.
` Q. And could you describe how that product was
`developed?
` A. The product was developed initially as an
`occular product. So it was an Alan Scott who developed a
`product which at the time was called oculinum to
`initially looking at treating strabismus and occular
`problems.
` We acquired that product back in the '80s and
`looked at developing it for other indications as well as
`some of these occular problems. And it was indeed at the
`end of the 1980s where we were granted our first license.
` Q. Do you know when Allergan first started using
`the BOTOX trademark in connection with the botulinum
`toxin product you just described?
` A. It will have been around the end of the late
`1980s. So certainly we were granted our first FDA
`approval at the end of the 1980s, and we've been using
`that trademark ever since.
` Q. Which is my next question. Has Allergan been
`continuously using the BOTOX trademark since sometime
`around the late 1980s?
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` A. Yes, we have.
` Q. And you mentioned a license. Is the BOTOX
`product regulated by the US Food and Drug Administration?
` A. Yes, we are.
` Q. And are there similar organizations in other
`countries to the Food and Drug Administration?
` A. Yes, there are.
` Q. Is the BOTOX product regulated with regard to
`those organizations as well?
` A. Yes, it is.
` Q. And you mentioned a license. Is a license the
`same thing as an approval by the FDA?
` A. Correct, yes, it is.
` Q. And the BOTOX product, is it approved for
`certain indications?
` A. Yes, it is.
` Q. What is an indication?
` A. An indication is something specific to what
`that product would be used for. So an example would be
`dystonia, spasticity, blepharospasm. So it's a very
`specific condition to which BOTOX would be used for.
` Q. So is it a condition that a patient would have?
` A. Patient or consumer. So you can think of BOTOX
`being used from the cosmetic, say, industry. And again
`that wouldn't necessarily be a patient per se. You would
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`Mark Chaplin - 6/27/12
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`Page 12
`say that is more a consumer, so can be used for consumers
`or patients. "Patient," we would tend to use that term
`more when we're talking about the therapeutic market.
` Q. But the individual using the product would have
`whatever the condition is --
` A. Correct.
` Q. -- for which the product has been approved?
` A. Yes. Correct.
` Q. And you've been making the distinction between
`therapeutic and cosmetic. Is there a cosmetic indication
`for the BOTOX product?
` A. Yes, there is.
` Q. And what is that cosmetic condition?
` A. That is for the treatment of moderate to sever
`glabellar lines in adult patients under the age of 65.
`Glabellar spelled g-l-a-b-b-e-l-a-r.
` Q. One B.
` A. G-l-a-b -- yeah, g-l-a-b-e-l-l-a-r.
` And if you want to put you could actually put
`in brackets "frown lines." It's easier for a lot of
`people to -- glabellar lines is -- I don't know if you
`know if anyone is interested. It's that line here
`(indicating). It's like your frown line. The medical
`determine is glabellar lines.
` So it's for the treatment of moderate to sever
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`glabellar lines in patients under the age of 65.
` Q. Is there a minimum age for which the BOTOX
`Cosmetic product has been approved for use in the
`treatment of glabellar lines?
` A. Well, it's adult patients. So it would be over
`the age of 18.
` Q. When was the BOTOX product first approved for
`cosmetic indication in the United States?
` A. The United States was in 2002 and I believe it
`was April 2002.
` Q. And had the product been approved for the
`cosmetic indication in countries other than the United
`States prior to April 2002?
` A. Yes, it has.
` Q. When was the BOTOX product first approved for
`the cosmetic indication in the United States?
` A. It was in April 2002.
` Q. And had the product been approved for the
`cosmetic indication in any other countries other than the
`United States prior to April 2002?
` A. Yes, it had.
` Q. And has the product been approved for the
`cosmetic indication in countries other than the United
`States after April 2002?
` A. Yes, it has.
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`Page 14
` MR. WILTON: Let's mark this as Exhibit 2. Not
`sure how you want to mark that.
` (The document referred to was marked by
` the CSR as Deposition Exhibit 2 for
` identification and attached to the
` deposition transcript hereto.)
`BY MR. WILTON:
` Q. Handing you what we've marked as Exhibit 2.
` A. Uh-huh.
` Q. Have you ever seen this document before?
` A. Yes, I have.
` Q. And what is it?
` A. This outlines the worldwide regulatory status
`of BOTOX for glabellar lines.
` Q. Is that what the "GL" means at the top of this
`document?
` A. Yes, it is. It's an acronym we use at the
`organization to stand for glabellar lines.
` Q. And glabellar lines are the cosmetic indication
`that we've been talking about?
` A. Correct. They are the frown lines which I
`mentioned.
` Q. Are any of the countries on this list, to your
`knowledge, Spanish-speaking?
` A. Yes, there are.
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` Q. And could you tell us which ones?
` A. Spain, some of the Latin American countries as
`well. There will be some Spanish speaking, so Brazil, I
`know they speak some Spanish there; Columbia, I believe
`they speak to Spanish there. Bolivia and Chile I think
`they speak Spanish there.
` Q. How about El Salvador?
` A. Oh El, Salvador, yeah, definitely.
` Q. Mexico?
` A. El Salvador and Mexico as well.
` Q. Has Allergan promoted the BOTOX product for the
`cosmetic indication in the United States?
` A. Yes, it has.
` Q. And does it promote it under the mark BOTOX or
`does it promote -- use another term with BOTOX?
` A. It uses another term which we call BOTOX
`Cosmetic.
` Q. And why does Allergan use BOTOX Cosmetic to
`promote the BOTOX product for the cosmetic indication?
` A. That was an FDA requirement.
` Q. After Allergan received approval for the
`cosmetic indication in April 2002, did Allergan start any
`kind of promotion for the product?
` A. Yes, we did.
` Q. And what kind of promotion?
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`Page 16
` A. A whole host of different promotions. And so
`direct-to-consumer promotion in the United States, which
`would include magazine articles, television articles,
`radio articles, also a website was initiated as well
`specific to the BOTOX Cosmetic brand.
` Q. What is direct-to-consumer advertising?
` A. Direct-to-consumer advertising is the United
`States allows us to promote direct to the consumers, the
`consumers being those people who we believe may be
`interested in using BOTOX Cosmetic.
` Q. What is the purpose of that type of
`advertising?
` A. It's to generate interest in -- first of all,
`to generate interest in BOTOX Cosmetic to the population
`of people who we believe may be interested in our
`product.
` Q. Do you know approximately how much money
`Allergan spent in 2002 to promote the BOTOX Cosmetic
`product?
` A. Yes, I do.
` Q. And how much is that?
` A. It was in the region of 10 million, was it?
` Q. I'm asking you.
` A. Yeah, I think it was $10 million. So I do
`know, but I think it's $10 million.
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`Page 17
` Q. Let me show you what we will mark as Exhibit 3.
` (The document referred to was marked by
` the CSR as Deposition Exhibit 3 for
` identification and attached to the
` deposition transcript hereto.)
` THE WITNESS: Thank you.
`BY MR. WILTON:
` Q. Have you seen this document before?
` A. Yes, I have.
` Q. And what is it?
` A. This is the print media plan from 2002.
` Q. What is a print media plan?
` A. This just gives an idea of which magazines we
`were going to be placing adverts in.
` So down the left there is a number of different
`magazines, More, Allure, In Style, Vogue, et cetera.
`Along the top there is some dates, and this gives us an
`idea of when we will be placing these ads in these
`magazines.
` Q. And so if we look in the third column, the
`first phrase that appears, it says "Megan spread."
` Do you see that?
` A. Yes, I do.
` Q. And was "Megan spread" an identification of a
`particular advertisement for the BOTOX Cosmetic product?
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` A. Yes, it was.
` Q. Perhaps involving someone named Megan?
` A. Correct.
` Q. And so the $10 million that you talked about,
`was that spent on the ads that appeared in these
`magazines?
` A. Yes, it was, yeah.
` Q. And did Allergan advertise the BOTOX Cosmetic
`product on television in 2002?
` A. Yes, it did.
` Q. And do you know whether the amount spent on
`television advertising for the BOTOX Cosmetic product in
`2002 was around 6 to $7 million?
` A. Yes, it was.
` Q. So the total spend for 2002 was that somewhere
`in the neighborhood of 16 to $17 million?
` A. That's correct.
` Q. In 2003 was the amount spent by Allergan in
`advertising the BOTOX Cosmetic product around 12 to $14
`million?
` A. Yes, it was.
` (The document referred to was marked by
` the CSR as Deposition Exhibit 4 for
` identification and attached to the
` deposition transcript hereto.)
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`BY MR. WILTON:
` Q. I've just handed you something that we've
`marked as Exhibit 4.
` Have you ever seen this document before?
` A. Yes, I have.
` Q. And what is that document?
` A. This again is a print media plan, but this time
`from 2003.
` Q. Who prepares the print media plans for
`Allergan?
` A. That is done by the marketing department.
` Q. And so if we look at Exhibit 4, on the
`left-hand column it lists a number of magazines; is that
`correct?
` A. That is correct.
` Q. Are those magazines in which advertisements
`appeared for the BOTOX Cosmetic product?
` A. Yes, it was.
` Q. And if we look at each of the columns across
`the page, there are little boxes with names in them.
` Do you see that?
` A. Yes, I do.
` Q. And the first one that appears in the second
`column says "Megan revised page."
` A. Yes.
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` Q. Was that an advertising -- an advertisement
`involving Megan?
` A. Yes, it was.
` Q. And then in the middle of the page in blue
`there's -- looks like the phrase "Friends."
` Do you see that?
` A. Yes, I do.
` Q. Was that an indicator for another advertisement
`that involved two or more people?
` A. Yes, it was.
` Q. And that was an advertisement for the BOTOX
`product?
` A. Yes, it was.
` Q. BOTOX Cosmetic product.
` A. Correct.
` Q. And so the 12 to $14 million in print
`advertisements spent in 2003 for the BOTOX Cosmetic
`product, that spend is reflected in the advertisements
`that appeared in each of these magazines?
` A. Correct.
` (The document referred to was marked by
` the CSR as Deposition Exhibit 5 for
` identification and attached to the
` deposition transcript hereto.)
`///
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`BY MR. WILTON:
` Q. I've just handed you a document that we've
`marked as Exhibit 5.
` Have you seen this document before?
` A. Yes, I have.
` Q. And what is it?
` A. This again is another print media plan, but
`this time from 2004.
` Q. And does this chart on Exhibit 5 reflect the
`publications in which advertisements for the BOTOX
`Cosmetic product were run?
` A. Yes, it does.
` Q. And so on the left-hand side we have a list of
`publications such as Glamour, In Style, More, Vogue. And
`those are publications in which ads were run, correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. And in each of the columns there is a name as
`well. What -- the first one that appears in the second
`column says "Doctors spread."
` A. Uh-huh.
` Q. Do you see that?
` A. Yes, I do.
` Q. And what does that indicate?
` A. That was an advert that we ran which was more
`specific to the doctor.
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` Q. Was the total amount spent by Allergan in
`testing the BOTOX product in the United States in 2004
`about $25 million?
` A. Yes, it was.
` Q. And does that include anything other than print
`advertisements?
` A. Yes, it does.
` Q. And what other types of media?
` A. Other types of media would include
`advertisement on television, advertisement on the radio.
`There would also be some advertisement on the web as
`well.
` Q. Does Allergan still advertise the BOTOX
`Cosmetic product in the United States?
` A. Yes, we do.
` Q. And in 2008 was the total amount spent by
`Allergan advertising the BOTOX product in the United
`States about $16.7 million?
` A. Yes, it was.
` Q. And that included print advertisement as well
`as television and radio and web?
` A. Yes, it did.
` Q. In 2009 was the total amount spent by Allergan
`advertising the BOTOX product in the United States about
`$7.6 million?
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` A. It was.
` Q. Why did it drop between 2008 and 2009?
` A. There was -- that coincided with the recession
`which we all felt at that time, and we sold less product.
`So consequently we had less money to invest in our
`advertising at that point.
` Q. In 2010 was the total amount spent by Allergan
`advertising the BOTOX product in the United States about
`$16.3 million?
` A. It was.
` Q. And in 2011 was the total amount spent by
`Allergan advertising the BOTOX product in the United
`States about $15.6 million?
` A. It was.
` Q. And do you know how much was -- is intended to
`be spent advertising the BOTOX Cosmetic product in the
`United States in this year?
` A. I don't have an exact figure, but it will be
`around in the same ballpark as the figures you've just
`explained.
` Q. So somewhere around 14 to $15 million?
` A. Correct. It will be over 10 million.
` Q. And for each of those years, does that include
`print advertisement?
` A. Yes, it does.
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` Q. Does it include television advertisement?
` A. Yes it does.
` Q. Does it include web advertisement?
` A. Yes, it does.
` Q. Do you have a rough idea of the amount spent by
`Allergan advertising the BOTOX product in the United
`States for the 2005, 2006 and 2007 period?
` A. Again it will be in line with the numbers which
`you have just outlined to me.
` Q. So approximately $15 million per year?
` A. That would be a ballpark figure, yes.
` Q. Like to mark as Exhibit 6 a collection of
`documents, which if you'll notice, they're double-sided.
` (The document referred to was marked by
` the CSR as Deposition Exhibit 6 for
` identification and attached to the
` deposition transcript hereto.)
`BY MR. WILTON:
` Q. Can you tell us what Exhibit 6 is?
` A. These are advertisements that were placed in
`magazines.
` Q. And what are they advertisements for?
` A. These are advertisements for BOTOX.
` Q. And so if we look at the page that's marked AGN
`0341 --
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` A. Yep.
` Q. -- is this a sample of an advertisement that
`would be called the "Friends" advertisement that we saw
`on the chart we were looking at just previously?
` A. Yes, it would.
` Q. And are these advertisements, are they kept in
`the files of Allergan in the normal course of its
`business?
` A. Yes, they are, yep.
` Q. And these are copies -- are these copies of
`advertisements that were actually placed in print media?
` A. Yes, they were.
` Q. And are these advertisements all advertisements
`that were used in the United States?
` A. Yes, they are.
` Q. Now, with regard to the first advertisement,
`the one that's in black and white --
` A. Uh-huh.
` Q. -- numbered AGN 0338, is that for BOTOX
`Cosmetic or is that just for BOTOX in general?
` A. This is for BOTOX in general.
` Q. So is there advertising for the BOTOX product
`both -- let me rephrase that.
` Are there advertisements for the BOTOX product
`that are relate to the therapeutic indications as well as
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`Page 26
`advertisements that relate to the cosmetic indication?
` A. Yes, there is.
` Q. Have those types of advertisements been run for
`the last 10 years?
` A. Yes, there have, or yes, there has been.
` Q. And who at -- or what department at Allergan
`maintains copies of advertisements?
` A. That would be the marketing department and also
`the PR department.
` Q. And they -- do they keep copies of the
`advertisements in Allergan's files?
` A. Yes, they do, yep.
` Q. Do these copies of advertisements come from
`copies that were kept in Allergan's files?
` A. Yes, they do.
` Q. I'd like to show you what we'll mark as
`Exhibit 7.
` (The document referred to was marked by
` the CSR as Deposition Exhibit 7 for
` identification and attached to the
` deposition transcript hereto.)
` THE WITNESS: Thank you.
`BY MR. WILTON:
` Q. Exhibit 7 consists of a number of different --
`it's actually a collection. I didn't want to mark these
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`Page 27
`as separate ones. They're stapled together. The one at
`the top is numbered AGN 0308. And looking at that first
`one, can you tell us what it is?
` A. This is a front cover of Elle Magazine.
` Q. And from what period of time?
` A. This is from -- actually, when is it from? Oh,
`it's from 2003. Sorry. It's from March 2003.
` Q. And was there an advertisement for the BOTOX
`Cosmetic product in Elle Magazine in March of 2003?
` A. Yes, there was.
` Q. Does that advertisement appear in the
`collection of documents I just sent you -- gave you?
` A. Yes, it does.
` Q. And where do we find it?
` A. That is on page what's termed here 0310.
` Q. And this is an advertisement that has the
`phrase at the top "It took 40 years to get it and
`10 minutes to do something about it"?
` A. That is correct.
` Q. Is this an example of direct consumer
`advertising?
` A. Yes, it is.
` Q. And if we look at the next document contained
`within Exhibit 7, has the number AGN 0313 on it --
` A. Uh-huh.
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` Q. -- what is this?
` A. This is actually an article in what's termed
`Skin and Allergy News.
` Q. What is Skin and Allergy News?
` A. This is more a newspaper, per se, that would be
`concentrated more on the dermatologist rather than the
`actual consumer itself.
` Q. So would this be an example of
`direct-to-consumer advertising or is there another term
`for it?
` A. This would be more designed towards the actual
`person who would be doing the injections. So the actual
`dermatologist as an example of a body of people who we
`would make