Board Certified
`Personal injury Trial Law
`Texas Board of Legal Specialization
`
`TREY YARBROUGH
`
`Attorney and Mediator
`100 E. Ferguson St., Suite 1015
`Tyler, Texas 75702
`(903) 595-3111
`Fax: (903) 595-0191
`Email;
`trey@tremlarbrough_com
`
`June 30, 2006
`
`Certified Mediator
`State and Federal Courts
`National Mediation Academy
`
`Via Federal Express
`United States Patent and Trademark Office
`
`Trademark Trial and Appeal Board
`Customer Service Window
`
`Madison East Room C55
`
`600 Dulany St.
`Alexandria, VA 22314
`
`Re:
`
`Opposition No. 91155687; B&B Hardware, Inc. v. Sealtlte
`Building Fasteners
`
`To the Honorable Members of the Board:
`
`I enclose for filing a copy of App|icant’s Notice of Filing Testimonial
`Depositions together with the court reporter’s sealed envelopes containing all
`evidence, notices, and paper exhibits relating to the testimonial depositions of
`Bruce Crouch and Tom Hulsey. The original of the enclosed notice and copies of
`the depositions and exhibits have been furnished to counsel for the Opposer in
`the manner shown below.
`
`Thank you for your attention to the enclosed.
`
`TY/aal
`
`Enclosures
`
`cc:
`
`Roger N. Behle (via Federal Express)
`
`Very truly yours,
`
`9%/6mvémm/[,3
`
`Trey Yarbrough
`
`
`
`O7-O3-2006
`
`US. Patent & TMOfc/TM Mail Rcpt Dt. #22
`
`
`Personal injury Trial Law
`Texas Board of Legal Specialization
`
`TREY YARBROUGH
`
`Attorney and Mediator
`100 E. Ferguson St., Suite 1015
`Tyler, Texas 75702
`(903) 595-3111
`Fax: (903) 595-0191
`Email;
`trey@tremlarbrough_com
`
`June 30, 2006
`
`Certified Mediator
`State and Federal Courts
`National Mediation Academy
`
`Via Federal Express
`United States Patent and Trademark Office
`
`Trademark Trial and Appeal Board
`Customer Service Window
`
`Madison East Room C55
`
`600 Dulany St.
`Alexandria, VA 22314
`
`Re:
`
`Opposition No. 91155687; B&B Hardware, Inc. v. Sealtlte
`Building Fasteners
`
`To the Honorable Members of the Board:
`
`I enclose for filing a copy of App|icant’s Notice of Filing Testimonial
`Depositions together with the court reporter’s sealed envelopes containing all
`evidence, notices, and paper exhibits relating to the testimonial depositions of
`Bruce Crouch and Tom Hulsey. The original of the enclosed notice and copies of
`the depositions and exhibits have been furnished to counsel for the Opposer in
`the manner shown below.
`
`Thank you for your attention to the enclosed.
`
`TY/aal
`
`Enclosures
`
`cc:
`
`Roger N. Behle (via Federal Express)
`
`Very truly yours,
`
`9%/6mvémm/[,3
`
`Trey Yarbrough
`
`
`
`O7-O3-2006
`
`US. Patent & TMOfc/TM Mail Rcpt Dt. #22
`
`
`
`C;
`
`IN THE UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
`BEFORE THE TRADEMARK TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`B&B HARDWARE, INC.
`
`v.
`
`Opposer,
`
`2
`
`Opposition No. 91155687
`Serial No. 75129229
`
`Applicant
`
`SEALTITE BUILDING FASTENERS,
`
`APPL|CANT’S NOTICE OF FILING TESTIMONIAL DEPOSITIONS
`
`To: Opposer, B&B Hardware, |nc., through its attorney, Roger N. Behle, Jr., 575
`Anton Blvd., Suite 710, Costa Mesa, California 92626.
`
`Notice is hereby given that certified transcripts of
`
`the testimonial
`
`deposition (and accompanying exhibits) of Bruce Crouch and the testimonial
`
`deposition of Tom Hulsey taken on May 2, 2006 are being filed with the
`
`Trademark Trial and Appeal Board and copies thereof served on the Opposer,
`
`B&B Hardware, |nc., pursuant to 37 CFR §§ 2.123(f) & 2.125 in the manner and
`
`on the date described below.
`
`
`
`100 E. Ferg son St., Suite 1015
`400 E. Fifth Street
`
`Tyler, Texas 75702
`903/595-3111
`
`903/595-0191 Fax
`
`
`
`O)
`
`Walter Ames
`
`6718 Wemberly Way
`McLean, Virginia 22101
`703/356-1737
`
`703/448-3055 Fax
`
`Attorneys for Applicant
`
`Certificate of Mailing
`
`It is hereby certified that on the 30th day of June, 2006, a copy of the
`foregoing Notice of Filing of Testimonial Depositions together with certified
`transcripts of the testimonial depositions and exhibits of Bruce Crouch and Tom
`Hulsey were deposited with the Federal Express overnight delivery service in a
`properly addressed envelope to:
`
`United States Patent and Trademark Office
`
`Trademark Trial and Appeal Board
`Customer Service Window
`
`Madison East Room C55
`
`600 Dulany Street
`Alexandria, VA 22314
`(800) 786-9199
`
`Ann A. Lee, CP
`
`Certificate of Service ‘
`
`is hereby certified that on the 30”‘ day of June, 2006, the foregoing
`It
`Notice of Filing of Testimonial Depositions together with copies of the testimonial
`depositions and exhibits of Bruce Crouch and Tom Hulsey were served via
`Federal Express overnight delivery service on counsel
`for Opposer, B&B
`Hardware,
`|nc., Roger N. Behle, Jr., 575 Anton Blvd., Ste. 710, Costa Mesa,
`
`California 92626.
`
`2
`
`Ann A. Lee, CP
`
`
`
`IN THE UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
`BEFORE THE TRADEMARK TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`B&B HARDWARE, INC.
`Opposer,
`
`v.
`
`SEALTITE BUILDING FASTENERS,
`Applicant
`
`3
`
`Opposition No. 91155687
`Serial No. 75129229
`
`Notice to Take the Testimonial Deposition of Tom Hulsey
`
`To:
`
`|nc., through its attorney, Roger N. Behie, Jr.,
`Opposer, B&B Hardware,
`575 Anton Boulevard, Suite 710, Costa Mesa, California 92626.
`
`Please take notice that pursuant to the provisions of 37 CFR §2.116 and 2.120
`
`and Rules 26 and 30 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, the undersigned
`
`counsel
`
`for Applicant, Sealtite Building Fasteners, will
`
`take the testimonial
`
`deposition of Tom Hulsey, whose address is P. O. Box 4515, Tyler, Texas
`
`75712, on May 2, 2006, beginning at 2:00 p.m. or after the completion of Bruce
`
`Crouch’s deposition at the law offices of Trey Yarbrough, 100 E. Ferguson St.,
`Suite 1015, Tyler, Texas 75702.
`7
`
`The deposition will be taken before a person authorized to administer
`
`oaths and take depositions pursuant to the provisions of F.R.C.P. 26 and 30, and
`
`may be recorded by video in addition to stenographic means.
`
`You are invited to attend and cross-examine.
`
`
`
`Of Counsel:
`
`Tom Brown
`Brown, Bauman & Smith
`400 E. Fifth Street
`
`Tyler, Texas 75701
`
`Respectfully submitted,
`
`.
`
`/tm I
`aéfflr
`Walter D. Ames, Esq.
`6718 Wemberly Way
`McLean, Virginia 22101
`
`Trey Yarbrough
`100 E. Ferguson St., Suite 1015
`Tyler, Texas 75702
`903/595-3111
`
`903/595-0191 Fax
`
`Attorneys for Applicant
`
`Certificate Of Service
`
`is hereby certified the foregoing Notice to Take the Testimonial
`It
`Deposition of Tom Hulsey was served on counsel for Opposer, B&B Hardware,
`lnc., Roger N. Behle, Jr., Esq., Foley Bezek Behle & Curtis, LLP, 575 Anton
`Boulevard, Suite 710, Costa Mesa, California 92626, via fax on April 20, 2006.
`
`I
`
`VI
`
`
`
`l\)
`
`00
`
`OCO®\lO7(J1-l>-
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`DEPOSITION OF TOM HULSEY
`
`IN THE UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`BEFORE THE TRADEMARK TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`Opposition No. 91155687
`Seria1 No. 75129229
`
`B&B HARDWARE,
`
`INC.
`
`Opposer,
`
`VS.
`
`SEALTITE BUILDING FASTENERS,
`
`App1icant.
`
`APPEARANCES:
`
`On beha1f of Opposer:
`
`ROGER N. BEHLE, JR., ESQ.
`Fo1ey, Bezek, Beh1e and Curtis
`575 Anton Bou1evard
`Suite 710
`
`Costa Mesa,
`
`Ca1ifornia
`
`92626
`
`On beha1f of App1icant:
`
`TREY YARBROUGH, ESQ.
`100 East Ferguson, Ste.
`Ty1er, Texas
`75702
`
`1015
`
`A1so Present:
`
`Sherri11 Sessions, videographer
`
`W/@W/;.Z
`
`PATRICK G. THURMOND, CSR, RPR
`
`(903) 595-1415
`
`
`
`DEPOSITION OF TOM HULSEY
`
`ANSWERS AND DEPOSITION OF TOM HULSEY, beginning at
`11:55 a.m.,
`taken by machine shorthand at the instance of
`App1icant
`in the above-sty1ed and numbered cause on May 2,
`2006, before Patrick G. Thurmond, Certified Shorthand
`Reporter and Notary Pub1ic in and for the State of Texas, at
`100 East Ferguson, Ty1er, Smith County, Texas, by notice and
`pursuant to the Federa1 Ru1es of Civi1 Procedure.
`
`I N D E X
`
`EXAMINATION BY MR. YARBROUGH 3, 32
`
`EXAMINATION BY MR. BEHLE
`
`20
`
`Deposition Exhibits
`
`Initia1 Reference
`
`12
`
`resume (Crouch)
`Sea1tight app1ications
`Sea1tight authorized
`distributor prices
`Dec1aration of Joe Hargis
`SBF sa1es vo1ume history
`SBF anaiysis of sa1es and
`marketing expenditures
`(1995-2005)
`Affidavit of Bruce Crouch
`
`Fastena1 Sea1tight search
`Fastena1 Sea1tite search
`
`Fastena1 Diamond Marketing
`Partners
`
`Sea1tight cata1og
`resume (Tom Hu1sey)
`Seaitight website
`
`PATRICK G. THURMOND, CSR, RPR
`
`(903) 595-1415
`
`
`
`DEPOSITION OF TOM HULSEY
`
`P R O C E E D I N G S
`
`TOM HULSEY,
`
`having been ca11ed as a witness and having been first du1y
`
`sworn,
`
`testified as fo11ows:
`
`BY MR. YARBROUGH:
`
`EXAMINATION
`
`State your fu11 name for the record, p1ease, sir.
`
`Tommy Ray Hu1sey.
`
`Mr. Hu1sey, how are you empIoyed?
`
`I'm emp1oyed with SeaItite BuiIding Fasteners in
`
`If you don't mind me asking, what age man are you,
`
`Q.
`
`A11 right, sir.
`
`Let me, first of a11, hand you
`
`what is marked as Exhibit N, and ask you if you can identify
`
`what that is?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Yes, it's a copy of my persona1 information sheet.
`
`Is it --
`
`A summary.
`
`-- a professiona1 résumé or a curricu1um vitae that
`
`accurately sets forth both your education and work
`
`experience?
`
`PATRICK G. THURMOND, CSR, RPR
`
`(903) 595-1415
`
`
`
`DEPOSITION OF TOM HULSEY
`
`A.
`
`Correct.
`
`Q.
`
`Even though I know it speaks for itse1f, it's in
`
`out1ine form,
`
`so I do want to ask you some questions about
`
`your work history.
`
`First of a11, you obtained,
`
`I note from your
`
`résumé, your bache1or of science degree from the University
`
`of Arkansas. What was your Iine of study?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`It was industriai education,
`
`industria1 arts.
`
`And when you obtained two semesters of
`
`post-graduate work at Penn State University, what was that
`
`course of study?
`
`A.
`
`That was in some advanced mathematics, ca1cu1us
`
`courses, auto;CAD courses,
`
`three courses in computer-aided
`
`design.
`
`Q.
`
`what I'd 1ike for you to do, without me having to
`
`interrupt you with one question after another,
`
`is for you to
`
`f1esh out,
`
`so to speak, or to articu1ate for the members of
`
`the TTAB, your work history as it re1ates to the fastener
`
`' Iine of work and products --
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Right.
`
`-- and the meta1-bui1ding industry.
`
`We11,
`
`that started a coup1e of years after
`
`graduation with a company ca11ed Varco-Pruden, that's Iisted
`
`here.
`
`They are a stee1-bui1ding manufacturer, and these
`
`bui1dings are he1d together, of course, by bo1ts and screws
`
`PATRI(H’< G. THURMOND, CSR, RPR
`
`(903) 595-1415
`
`
`
`DEPOSITION OF TOM HULSEY
`
`and that sort of thing.
`
`Part of my responsibiiity at Varco-Pruden was
`
`in research and deveiopment,
`
`to deveiop wa11— and
`
`roof-fastening systems,
`
`redesign their fasteners,
`
`if you
`
`wi11,
`
`their screw fasteners,
`
`to hoid the buiidings in piace.
`
`So that 1ed to a 1ot of other R&D products,
`
`seaiants and that sort of thing, a11 somewhat
`
`fastener—re1ated.
`
`But
`
`I got a thorough knowiedge of the
`
`preengineered steei-buiiding industry going through those
`
`types of product and how they appiied to the stee1 buiidings.
`
`So it gave a good basis for that.
`
`Then,
`
`iater on,
`
`I was contacted by a fastener
`
`company in Pennsyivania, Construction Fasteners,
`
`their name
`
`at the time,
`
`they have since been purchased, and now their
`
`name is SFS intec,
`
`I beiieve is their name now.
`
`But at the
`
`time it was Construction Fasteners.
`
`And I was with that
`
`company for about 28 years.
`
`‘My iatest tit1e was vice
`
`president of technicai services and appiications engineering.
`
`That was a research-and-development
`
`type of position.
`
`But
`
`in addition to that,
`
`I worked very cioseiy
`
`with the buiiders,
`
`their customers,
`
`those peopie that used
`
`the fasteners and instaiied those fasteners in the steei
`
`buiidings and post-frame buiidings, as we11.
`
`So it was broad
`
`spectrum of construction, using screws and boits of a11
`
`types.
`
`\lO3U1-l>(A>l\)
`
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`25
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`PATRICK G. THURMOND, CSR, RPR
`
`(903) 595-1415
`
`
`
`DEPOSITION OF TOM HULSEY
`
`After the company Construction Fasteners was
`
`so1d to SFS,
`
`I had moved to Seaitite Bui1ding Fasteners.
`
`I
`
`was emp1oyed there in 2002,
`
`I beiieve, January of 2002.
`
`Q.
`
`Is that Sea1tite Bui1ding Fasteners in Tyier,
`
`Texas?
`
`A.
`
`0.
`
`In Ty1er, correct.
`
`And, of course, you have a professionai
`
`re1ationship with Joe Hargis and Bruce Crouch,
`
`I
`
`take it?
`
`A.
`
`0.
`
`Yes, very c1ose re1ationship.
`
`Going back to Construction Fasteners, Inc., at
`
`Ieast its previous name,
`
`I note in your Iist of
`
`responsibi1ities and activities in which you were invo1ved,
`
`it says you served on the SPRI Technicai Committee that
`
`deve1oped ANSI standards for fasteners used in the roofing
`
`industry, and so on. First of a11, what is ANSI,
`
`the ANSI
`
`standards?
`
`A.
`
`American Nationa1 Standards Institute is ANSI.
`
`The
`
`SPRI organization, or Sing1e§P1y Roofing Institute, was an
`
`institute deve1oped strict1y, as the name impiies, sing1e—pIy
`
`roofing, putting down sing1e membranes on roofs for
`
`waterproofing purposes, over conventiona1 bui1dings,
`
`to
`
`rep1ace aspha1t and that type of thing.
`
`Part of the deve1opment
`
`in that was to deve1op
`
`fasteners that wou1d ho1d the rigid insu1ation board that's
`
`used in the roof constructions to the stee1 decking.
`
`And
`
`PATRICK G. THURMOND, CSR, RPR
`
`(903) 595-1415
`
`
`
`
`
`DEPOSITION OF TOM HULSEY
`
`it's a fastening system,
`
`incidenta11y, it's a screw-and—p1ate
`
`combination type of thing.
`
`That particuiar technicai committee was part
`
`of the Sing1e-P1y Roofing Institute, and I chaired the
`
`fastener committee of that technicai committee for two or
`
`three years.
`
`Q.
`
`with respect to Construction Fasteners, it notes,
`
`at the very beginning,
`
`that you were responsibie for the
`
`design,
`
`the deveiopment, and testing of new fasteners and
`
`reiated products for use in stee1-framed and wood-framed
`
`buiiding construction.
`
`Can you give us a 1itt1e more detaii, what did
`
`you do on a day—to-day basis in that respect?
`
`A.
`
`First, you define the need. There has to be a need
`
`for a fastener to so1ve a prob1em or there is no need in
`
`trying to deveiop one.
`
`17
`
`18
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`24
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`25
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`Once you define the need,
`
`then you determine
`
`what ioads, or what properties that fastener must have to
`
`withstand the stresses it's going to be placed under.
`
`Once those have been estabiished,
`
`then you
`
`deveiop a thread profiie, or a geometry, or a shape or a head
`
`configuration that best solves the objectives for the
`
`fastener that you have defined origina11y.
`
`And then you deveiop prototypes and test those
`
`to see if they do meet that criteria.
`
`And then you determine
`
`PATRICK G. THURMOND, CSR, RPR
`
`(903) 595-1415
`
`
`
`DEPOSITION OF TOM HULSEY
`
`its manufacturing cost, and if it's economicai
`
`to pursue
`
`that.
`
`Then you manufacture the fastener and then
`
`give it to the marketing and sales guys and say, Here you go.
`
`Q.
`
`Before we get to your emp1oyment history and
`
`experience with Sea1tite Buiiding Fasteners in Tyier,
`
`I note
`
`_ on the second page of your résumé that you are an inventor of
`
`eieven US patents and one Canadian patent for fasteners and
`
`fastening systems.
`
`I don't expect you to go through, nor do I
`
`think anybody here wants you to go through a11 the patents,
`
`but can you give us an examp1e of one or two of those
`
`patents.
`
`A.
`
`One particuiar one was a bimetai fastener, part of
`
`the fastener is stain1ess stee1 and part carbon steei.
`
`The
`
`objective in that fastener was to deveiop a screw that cou1d
`
`attach rigid insuiation board in the Singie-P1y Roofing
`
`Institute arena that we taiked about to stee1 decking,
`
`without having to predri11 the ho1e, and then once insta11ed,
`
`the screw wou1d not red—rust.
`
`we know,
`
`from past experience -- and over this
`
`many years of experience you 1earn a few things as you go --
`
`stain1ess stee1 wi11 not red-rust in the environments it's
`
`exposed in in construction.
`
`But it wi11 not dri11 a ho1e.
`
`It's too soft.
`
`N 0
`
`0
`
`0301-5
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`PATRICK G. THURMOND, CSR, RPR
`
`(903) 595-1415
`
`
`
`DEPOSITION OF TOM HULSEY
`
`So, by the addition of a carbon stee1 tip that
`
`can be heat-treated and hardened,
`
`that wi11 provide the
`
`driiiing through the stee1 deck.
`
`Now you have the best of both worids.
`
`You
`
`have a fastener that can be insta11ed in steei decking,
`
`securing the insu1ation board in a wet environment, usua11y
`
`found in reroofing, as they ca11 it, or retrofitting an o1d
`
`G301-bO~Jl\)
`
`\l
`
`roof.
`
`Now, once insta11ed,
`
`the fastener wi11 be
`
`there.
`
`It wi11 not red rust and not degrade.
`
`That was one
`
`of the patents.
`
`And there is -- another patent was simp1y a
`
`meta1 p1ate that is used in conjunction with a screw of a
`
`certain geometry that wi11 a11ow it to resist the wind upiift
`
`ioading that wou1d be imposed on that roof. That's a coup1e
`
`of them.
`
`Q.
`
`Now,
`
`te11 us about your work experience with
`
`Seaitite Buiiding Fasteners in Tyier, what it is you do,
`
`again on a day-to-day basis.
`
`A.
`
`On a day-to-day basis, it's sti11 deveioping
`
`fasteners where there is a need.
`
`It's working with our
`
`customers in seiecting the appropriate fastener for their
`
`needs in construction.
`
`It is giving training seminars to our sa1es
`
`peopie to make them aware of what their customers are needing
`
`PATRICK G. THURMOND, CSR, RPR
`
`(903) 595-1415
`
`
`
`DEPOSITION OF TOM HULSEY
`
`10
`
`\lCDO1->0Ol\)
`
`and 1ooking for.
`
`I a1so generate technicai data;
`
`that is, pu11
`
`out and pu11 over data, as we ca11 it, for the specific
`
`fasteners in construction app1ications for preengineered
`
`bui1dings and wood-frame buiidings.
`
`So it gives our customers‘ engineering
`
`departments a basis from which to design their assemb1ies.
`
`It gives them the strength criteria they can use.
`
`They app1y
`
`their factors of safety for that and design their bui1dings.
`
`Q.
`
`From what
`
`I can gather from your resume, beginning
`
`in 1964, you have had rough1y 42 years of experience with
`
`fasteners and fastener products?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Correct.
`
`Now, by virtue of the work experience that you have
`
`had, have you become famiiiar with, or know1edgeab1e about,
`fasteners, not oniy in the meta]-buiiding industry, but
`
`fasteners throughout various markets?
`
`A.
`
`Abso1ute1y. Being in the fastener industry for
`
`that 1ong, you see a11 types of attachment devices, fasteners
`
`for different app1ications.
`
`And working in the patent area,
`
`you find a11 types of fasteners that are usua11y -— that
`
`usua11y come up in the patent prosecution -- that interfere
`
`with or are questioned by the Patent Office as to the
`
`va1idity of your own patent, so you get exposed to a 1ot of
`
`other fasteners in that area, as we11.
`
`PATRICK G. THURMOND, CSR, RPR
`
`(903) 595-1415
`
`
`
`DEPOSITION OF TOM HULSEY
`
`11
`
`So you see aT1 types of fasteners. when you
`
`say "fasteners," that covers a broad spectrum anyway. That
`
`couTd be anything from a simp1e tie to a compTex bo1t.
`
`But we dea1 strict1y in the area of
`
`preengineered stee1 buiTdings and wood-frame buiTdings.
`
`That's the fastener bracket that we are speciaTists in.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`when you say "we," who are you speaking of?
`
`Sea1tite BuiTding Fasteners here in Ty1er. That's
`
`been my experience, with Construction Fasteners and with
`
`Varco-Pruden, as weT1,
`
`those were aT1 construction type of
`
`fasteners.
`
`Q.
`
`As part_of your job responsibi1ities with SeaTtite
`
`BuiTding Fasteners, do you actua11y ever visit job sites,
`
`production faci1ities, offices of the customers of SeaTtite
`
`BuiTding Fasteners?
`
`A.
`
`Oh, yes,
`
`job sites, that's where our fasteners are
`
`used.
`
`They are not a1ways used correct1y.
`
`Sometimes there
`
`is prob1ems, and sometimes you need to go to a job site to
`
`show someone how to use a new fastener, for exampTe, or to
`
`troub1eshoot if he is having probTems. Maybe he is using the
`
`incorrect too1. Or maybe it's the wrong appTication for that
`
`fastener.
`
`You give your customers aTT the he1p you can so
`
`they wiT1 continue to use your fasteners, but use them
`
`properTy.
`
`Q.
`
`The particu1ar market or channe1 of commerce in
`
`PATRICK G. THURMOND, CSR, RPR
`
`(903) 595-1415
`
`
`
`DEPOSITION OF TOM HULSEY
`
`12
`
`&
`
`CDLDGD\lCDU‘I-b0Jl\)
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`which Sea1tite Bui1ding Fasteners operates is the
`
`meta1—bui1ding—construction industry?
`
`A.
`
`Correct.
`
`0.
`
`Prior to today, have you taken an opportunity to
`
`review the website Iiterature for B&B Hardware?
`
`A.
`
`Yes.
`
`Q.
`
`Now, Iet me be more specific with you,
`
`there is an
`
`exhibit, first of a11, marked Exhibit D, have you taken an
`
`opportunity to review those particu1ar ten pages from the B&B
`
`Hardware website Iiterature?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Yes,
`
`I have.
`
`And have you reviewed specifica11y a11 of the
`
`specific app1ications that are Iisted there, as we11 as the
`Iarger market segments that are identified?
`
`A.
`
`Yes,
`
`I went
`
`through the subtopics they have here
`
`and Iooked at what
`
`they are rea11y c1aiming in their website,
`
`especia11y the appiications.
`
`0.
`
`Let me p1ace before you a Iarger stack of documents
`
`from, drawn, Iet me represent to you drawn from the B&B
`
`Hardware website.
`
`But take a moment
`
`to peruse through there
`
`and Iet me ask you, do you recognize that stack of documents
`
`as ones you have previousiy reviewed?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Yes,
`
`I have.
`
`Does it identify itse1f as a Sea1tight So1utions or
`
`B&B Hardware website?
`
`PATRICK G. THURMOND, CSR, RPR
`
`(903) 595-1415
`
`
`
`DEPOSITION OF TOM HULSEY
`
`13
`
`CAD
`
`O30‘!-l>
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`It has the Seaitight name, S—e—a—1-t-i-g-h-t name.
`
`Do the first ten pages of that stack of documents.
`
`in front of you correiate or correspond exactiy with Exhibit
`
`D?
`
`A.
`
`Yes,
`
`they appear to be -- Exhibit D appears to be a
`
`copy of these.
`
`Q.
`
`What do the remaining pages genera11y represent,
`
`Mr. Huisey,
`
`from that particuiar website?
`
`A.
`
`They appear to represent their part numbers, what
`
`the part numbers mean in reiation to features of their
`
`fastener in this particuiar page I'm iooking at.
`
`It shows graphicaiiy what their fasteners are,
`
`what
`
`they are intended to be used for,
`
`the physicai features
`
`of their threads and O—rings and grooves for the O—rings and
`
`those things are unique to his marketpiace.
`
`Q.
`
`Did you take an opportunity to peruse the website
`
`on your computer?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Yes,
`
`I did.
`
`.Are you representing that particuiar stack of
`
`documents in front of you represents every page from the B&B
`
`Hardware website?
`
`MR. BEHLE:
`
`Lacks foundation; ca11s for
`
`speculation.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`(BY MR. YARBROUGH)
`
`_ You can answer.
`
`If I understand the question,
`
`that this is their
`
`PATRICK G. THURMOND, CSR, RPR
`
`(903) 595-1415
`
`
`
`DEPOSITION OF TOM HULSEY
`
`14
`
`entire website?
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Are you representing that's the who1e website?
`
`I don't know that it's the who1e website, but it's
`
`representative of the website that I viewed, quite extensive,
`
`yes.
`
`MR. YARBROUGH:
`
`I'm going to go ahead,
`
`actua11y, Roger, and mark this.
`
`It's a Iot of materia1, but
`
`it's Exhibit 0.
`
`MR. BEHLE: Are you going to move it in, as
`
`MR. YARBROUGH: Yes.
`
`MR. BEHLE:
`
`I'm going to put my objections on
`
`‘MR. YARBROUGH:
`
`Sure.
`
`Let me, before you do
`
`that, for the record.
`
`Q.
`
`(BY MR. YARBROUGH)
`
`The documents that we have
`
`been referring to that you have been testifying about,
`
`the
`
`stack of documents as its been described p1aced in front you,
`
`is that now identified as Exhibit 0?
`
`A.
`
`Correct.
`
`MR. YARBROUGH:
`
`Go ahead.
`
`I'm going to tender
`
`that Exhibit 0 and move for its admission.
`
`MR. BEHLE:
`
`It Iacks foundation, authenticity,
`
`best evidence, a1so hearsay, okay.
`
`Q.
`
`(BY MR. YARBROUGH)
`
`And Iet me simp1y ask you this
`
`PATRICK G. THURMOND, CSR, RPR
`
`(903) 595-1415
`
`
`
`DEPOSITION OF TOM HULSEY
`
`15
`
`as a fo11owup.
`
`The documents in front of you, as you perused
`
`the website and reviewed the website on your computer of the
`
`Seaitight Soiutions or B&B Hardware, are those pages
`
`representative of the materiais that you saw on the website?
`
`A.
`
`Yes, it is,
`
`inciuding a lot of peripherai
`
`information 1ike gaivanic series and that sort of thing that
`
`was on their website.
`
`Q.
`
`Having reviewed a11 of the specific appiications
`
`identified on Exhibit D, and a1so identified in the first ten
`
`pages of Exhibit 0 from the B&B Hardware iiterature, and
`
`based upon your experience of 42 years of experience in the
`
`fastener industry and in the metai-buiiding industry, are you
`
`aware of any products manufactured or distributed by Seaitite
`
`Buiiding Fasteners in Ty1er that fit the appiications
`
`identified in either Exhibit D or Exhibit 0?_
`
`A.
`
`No.
`
`MR. BEHLE: Lackslfoundation, ca11s for
`
`specu1ation, ca11s for expert opinion.
`
`Q.
`
`(BY MR. YARBROUGH)
`
`Is that your answer with
`
`respect to a11 of those specific appiications?
`A.
`‘Yes.
`I saw no fasteners in here at a11 that
`
`resembie the fasteners that are Seaitite Buiiding Fasteners
`
`fasteners.
`
`Q.
`
`Describe the basis for your answer. Articuiate for
`
`us why you say there are no products manufactured by this
`
`PATRICK G. THURMOND, CSR, RPR
`
`(903) 595-1415
`
`
`
`DEPOSITION OF TOM HULSEY
`
`.
`
`16
`
`company in Ty1er, or distributed by Sea1tite Buiiding
`
`Fasteners in Ty1er,
`
`that fit the app1ications in Exhibits D
`
`or 0?
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`MR. BEHLE: Leading.
`
`(BY MR. YARBROUGH)
`
`Go ahead.
`
`The fasteners shown on Exhibit 0,
`
`they a11 have
`
`basica11y one or two common features throughout their who1e
`
`thing.
`
`They are machine threads, for Tack of a better term,
`
`they are machine threads. There is an O-ring, a cavity for
`
`an O-ring.
`
`They are obviousiy designed, as the Titerature
`
`shows, for pressure seais, both negative and positive
`
`pressure, none of which are used in our industry.
`
`And Sea1tite Bui1ding Fasteners in Ty1er
`
`doesn't dea1 in this type of fasteners at a11.
`
`By the same
`
`token, or the coro11ary of that,
`
`I saw nothing in here that
`
`even Tooked Tike a fastener we se11; we don't se11 these,
`
`they don't promote ours.
`
`Q.
`
`As you reviewed those app1ications --
`
`I
`
`think you
`
`testified you are not aware of any products distributed by
`
`Seaitite Buiiding Fasteners in Ty1er that fit the
`
`app1ications in Exhibits D or 0. what's your basis for that
`
`testimony that Seaitite Bui1ding Fasteners products don't fit
`
`those appiications?
`
`A.
`
`The appiications shown here in Exhibits D and 0 are
`
`\ICDU‘I-h(.0l\>
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21'
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`PATRICK G. THURMOND,- CSR, RPR
`
`(903) 595-1415
`
`
`
`DEPOSITION OF TOM HULSEY
`
`17
`
`primariiy a miiitary or aircraft type designs or aircraft
`
`type appiications, missiies, surface—to-air missiies,
`
`that
`
`sort of thing, as I'm reading from the surface here.
`
`These are not construction type of fasteners,
`
`as used by Seaitite Bui1ding Fasteners.
`
`Q.
`
`And did you see appiications there not iimited to
`
`aerospace? Medicai and other industria1 appiications?
`
`A.
`
`Correct. There is some 230 different categories
`
`that are 1isted here as appiications for their fasteners,
`
`none of which mentions the construction industry at a11.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Inciuding the meta1—bui1ding construction industry?
`
`Correct, it's not iisted at a11 in any of their
`
`appiications.
`
`Q.
`
`As you reviewed the particuiar products that are
`
`promoted and set forth in Exhibits 0 and D, but particularly
`
`Exhibit 0, did you observe any of those products that wouid
`
`fit, or have an appiication,
`
`in the meta]-buiiding
`
`construction industry?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`No.
`
`Have you ever seen the type of fastener product
`
`promoted or set forth in Exhibit 0 utiiized in the
`
`meta1-buiiding industry?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Nowhere in the metai-buiiding industry.
`
`Have,
`
`in your 42 years of invoivement, both with
`
`respect to fasteners and in the metai-buiiding construction
`
`PATRICK G. THURMOND, CSR, RPR
`
`(903) 595-1415
`
`
`
`DEPOSITION OF TOM HULSEY
`
`18
`
`é
`
`CDLO®\lCDU'l-hOOl\)
`
`é
`
`A &
`
`_x N?
`
`_x CA3
`
`_x -F
`
`_\ 0'1
`
`_x C)
`
`_\ \l
`
`_; ®
`
`_\ CD
`
`|\) O
`
`l\J _\
`
`l\) l\)
`
`l\) C»)
`
`l\) -P
`
`N 01
`
`industry, have you ever heard of B&B Hardware?
`
`A.
`
`I had never heard of B&B Hardware unti1 these
`
`proceedings came up, or prior to that.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Or ever heard of Sea1tight, S-e—a-1-t-i-g-h-t?
`
`No.
`
`Q.
`
`You have testified about one of the characteristics
`
`of the products in the B&B Titerature, or the website
`
`materia1, as providing specifications for to1erances, and
`
`withstanding certain to1erances.
`
`How is that distinguishab1e
`
`from a SeaTtite Bui1ding Fasteners product?
`
`A.
`
`0.
`
`withstanding to1erances or certain Toads?
`
`Yes, sir.
`
`How is that distinguishab1e from the B&B
`
`Hardware product?
`
`A.
`
`The Sea1tite Bui1ding Fasteners products are what
`
`is termed se1f-dri11ing fasteners that driT1s their own pi1ot
`
`hoTe and then is fo11owed by the threads that then tap their
`wk¢>rr\».3C3z
`way into the substrate, or form making threads into the
`
`substrate it's being insta11ed into.
`
`The products I saw in the Sea1tight B&B
`
`Hardware products are a11 machine threads.
`
`They require a
`
`predriT1ed and pretapped hoTe with threads made in that screw
`
`to be instaT1ed;
`
`They don't form their own threads.
`
`Q.
`
`Do the Sea1tite Bui1ding Fasteners fastener
`
`products in Ty1er, Texas, do they have any psi rating, are
`
`they designed to withstand internaT pressures?
`
`PATRICK G. THURMOND, CSR, RPR
`
`(903) 595-1415
`
`
`
`DEPOSITION OF TOM HULSEY
`
`19
`
`....\
`
`OQDCD\lC'>U‘I-l>-(»JI\)
`
`A.
`
`No.
`
`The appTication of the SeaTtite Ty1er
`
`fasteners is to ho1d metaT pane1s onto stee1 or wood framing.
`
`There is no pressure exerted on that that wouTd require them
`
`to be a pressure seaT connection.
`
`They must seaT against water infi1tration, but
`
`that's rainwater. That's under zero pressure differentiaTs
`
`from inside to outside the bui1ding.
`
`It's just water running
`
`off the roof; it has to sea1 the hoTe.
`
`They are not sea1ed by 0-rings;
`they are
`sea1ed by washers that are made for preengineered type of
`
`construction.
`
`And that is a meta1 washer with a rubber1ike
`
`compound bonded to it so that there is a Tittie cushion
`
`between the fastener and the meta1 pane1, un1ike their
`
`fastener -- and it states metaT-to-metaT contact for
`
`securing, and the 0+ring is captured underneath their
`
`fastener head.
`
`By contrast,
`
`the SeaTtite Bui1ding Fasteners
`
`in TyTer have the washer that separates the head from the
`work piece so there is £:fmeta1—to-meta1 contact, because it
`
`wouTd damage the painted surface.
`
`It's an entireTy different concept. There is
`
`no pressure seaT, vacuum or direct externai pressure that has
`
`to be met. There is no psi ratings on these fasteners.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`On these fasteners?
`
`The Seaitite BuiTding Fasteners fasteners.
`
`PATRICK G. THURMOND, CSR, RPR
`
`(903) 595-1415
`
`
`
`DEPOSITION OF TOM HULSEY
`
`20
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`In Ty1er?
`
`In Ty1er, correct. There is no need for psi rating
`
`and there is none.
`
`0.
`
`Based then upon your review of a11 the Iiterature
`
`and your experience and training in the fastener fie1d, do
`
`you see any basis, Mr. Hu1sey, for a crossover of Sea1tite
`
`Bui1ding Fasteners products in the app1ications identified by
`
`B&B, or any crossover of the B&B Hardware products into the
`
`meta1-bui1ding industry?
`
`MR. BEHLE:
`
`Lacks foundation, ca11s for
`
`specu1ation.
`
`A.
`
`Abso1ute1y no crossover.
`
`I have never seen this
`
`type of fastener in the construction industry.
`
`And I'm very
`
`aware of the fasteners used in the construction industry.
`
`0.
`
`(BY MR. YARBROUGH) when you say "this fastener,"
`
`are you referring to the B&B product?
`
`A.
`
`B&B Hardware fastener.
`
`MR. YARBROUGH:
`
`Pass the witness.
`
`EXAMINATION
`
`BY MR. BEHLE:
`
`Q.
`
`Good afternoon, Mr. HuIsey. You have been in the
`
`fastener industry for 42 years?
`
`A.
`
`Yes.
`
`when is the first time you heard the name Sea1tite?
`
`Of B&B Hardware Sea1tight?
`
`PATRICK G. THURMOND, CSR, RPR
`
`(903) 595-1415
`
`
`
`DEPOSITION OF TOM HULSEY
`
`21
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`The name Sea1tite?
`
`with Sea1tite Bui1ding Fasteners.
`
`when is the first time you heard that?
`
`I heard of Seaitite BuiIding Fasteners probab1y in
`
`the ear1y 90s, mid-90s.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Ty1er.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`In what context did you hear it?
`
`I'm friends with Joe Hargis,
`
`the owner of Sea1tite
`
`You heard the name from Joe Hargis?
`
`I was a co-worker with Joe Hargis for severa1
`
`years.
`
`And I knew that Joe Hargis had formed his own
`
`company. And that company was the Sea1tite Bui1ding
`
`Fasteners.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Did you work with Joe Hargis at Atlas?
`
`No,
`
`I worked with Joe Hargis at Construction
`
`Fasteners.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Are you fami1iar with a company ca11ed At1as?
`
`Yes, At1as Bo1t and Screw Company.
`
`To your understanding, did Joe Hargis own a
`
`division of At1as?
`
`A.
`
`I don't know whether he owned what, but he worked
`
`for At1as,
`
`I know that.
`
`And I know there was some tie with
`
`ownership somewhere. About
`
`I wasn't privi1eged to that
`
`information anyway.
`
`Q.
`
`And you worked with Joe Hargis at Construction
`
`PATRICK G. THURMOND, CSR, RPR
`
`(903) 595-1415
`
`
`
`DEPOSITION OF TOM HULSEY
`
`22
`
`U1-h(AJl\)
`
`NO?
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24’
`
`25
`
`Fasteners, Inc., right?
`
`Yes.
`
`That's the company that was purchased by SFS?
`
`Yes.
`
`During what years did you work with Joe Hargis at
`
`Construction Fasteners?
`
`A.
`
`This was in the 80s, mid-80s to Tate 80s, ear1y
`
`90s,
`
`in that range,
`
`four or five years or so.
`
`0.
`
`And how was it that you interacted with Mr. Hargis
`
`whi1e at Construction Fasteners? were you working with him
`
`on a day-to-day basis?
`
`A.
`
`No,
`
`I was in Pennsy1vania.
`
`And Joe was in Texas.
`
`But we wou1d get together quite often on meetings and
`
`whatever.
`
`I wouTd come to Texas to visit Joe,
`
`in the course
`
`of norma1 execution of your duties, visiting job sites and
`
`whatever.
`
`when I was at Varco-Pruden -- this goes back
`
`to about 1972,
`
`in that range -- Joe was working with At1as
`
`Bo1t and Screw Company, and I met Joe then. That was rea11y
`
`the first time that I had met Joe.
`
`Did you become friends with Joe?
`
`Yes, we have known each other for that Tength of
`
`30 years maybe?
`
`Perhaps.
`
`PATRICK G. THURMOND, CSR, RPR
`
`(903) 595-1415
`
`
`
`DEPOSITION OF TOM HULSEY
`
`'
`
`23
`
`Q.
`
`And you have been ca11ing him Joe.
`
`So I'11 refer
`
`to him as Joe, Mr. Hargis,
`
`A.
`
`Yes.
`
`Q.
`
`He asked you at some point to come work for him at
`
`Seaitite?
`
`A.
`
`Correct.
`
`0.
`
`A.
`
`what year did he ask you to do that?
`
`That was on or about the time that SFS purchased
`
`Construction Fasteners, probabiy a few months before the
`
`actuai
`
`takeover occurred.
`
`It was a few months before,
`
`because I started to work at Seaitite the day that SFS
`
`ownership took effect.
`
`Q.
`
`You first heard the name Seaitite from Joe Hargis,
`
`right?
`
`A. Wei],
`
`from Joe Hargis, or in re1ation to Joe
`
`Hargis, yes.
`
`Q.
`
`Did you ever hear the name Seaitite mentioned at
`
`any trade events you may have attended as part of your work
`
`with Construction Fasteners or Varco-Pruden?
`
`A.
`
`Not Varco-Pruden, because Seaitite didn't exist
`
`during
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