`
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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`1
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`- - - - - - - - - - - - x
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`US ENDODONTICS, LLC, :
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` Petitioner, : Case No. IPR2015-00632
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` v. : U.S. Patent No.
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`GOLD STANDARD : 8,727,773 B2
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`INSTRUMENTS, LLC, :
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` Patent Owner. :
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`- - - - - - - - - - - - X
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` Videotaped Deposition of ROBERT SINCLAIR, Ph.D.
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` Washington, DC
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` Monday, January 18, 2016
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` 9:02 a.m.
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`Job No.: 98829
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`Pages 1 - 310
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`Reported by: Debra A. Whitehead
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`IPR2015-00632 – Ex. 1040
`US ENDODONTICS, LLC, Petitioner
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`PGR2015-00019 – Ex. 1045
`US Endodontics, LLC, Petitioner
`
`
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`Videotaped Deposition of Robert Sinclair, Ph.D.
`Conducted on January 18, 2016
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` Videotaped Deposition of ROBERT SINCLAIR, Ph.D.,
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`2
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`held at the offices of:
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` ROTHWELL, FIGG, ERNST & MANBECK, P.C.
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` 607 14th Street, NW
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` Suite 800
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` Washington, DC 20005
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` (202) 783-6040
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` Pursuant to agreement, before Debra A. Whitehead,
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`an Approved Reporter of the United States District
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`Court and Notary Public of the District of Columbia.
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`PLANET DEPOS
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`IPR2015-00632 – Ex. 1040
`US ENDODONTICS, LLC, Petitioner
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`PGR2015-00019 – Ex. 1045
`US Endodontics, LLC, Petitioner
`
`
`
`Videotaped Deposition of Robert Sinclair, Ph.D.
`Conducted on January 18, 2016
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`3
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` A P P E A R A N C E S
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` ON BEHALF OF PETITIONER:
`
` JEFFREY S. GINSBERG, ESQUIRE
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` PATTERSON BELKNAP WEBB & TYLER LLP
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` 1133 Avenue of the Americas
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` New York, New York 10036-6710
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` (212) 336-2000
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` ON BEHALF OF PATENT OWNER:
`
` DEREK F. DAHLGREN, ESQUIRE
`
` JASON M. NOLAN, Ph.D., ESQUIRE
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` ROTHWELL, FIGG, ERNST & MANBECK, P.C.
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` 607 14th Street, NW
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` Suite 800
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` Washington, DC 20005
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` (202) 783-6040
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` ALSO PRESENT:
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` DEREK FOX, Video Specialist
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`PLANET DEPOS
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`IPR2015-00632 – Ex. 1040
`US ENDODONTICS, LLC, Petitioner
`
`PGR2015-00019 – Ex. 1045
`US Endodontics, LLC, Petitioner
`
`
`
`Videotaped Deposition of Robert Sinclair, Ph.D.
`Conducted on January 18, 2016
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`43
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` Prior to your involvement in this matter,
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`09:57:48
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`were you familiar with the methods of heat-treating
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`09:57:50
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`an nickel-titanium endodontic file?
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` A I would be familiar with methods of
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`heat-treating nickel-titanium material.
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` Q And do you believe that methods of
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`09:57:59
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`heat-treating a nickel-titanium material would be
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`applicable to methods of heat-treating a
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`nickel-titanium endodontic file?
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` A In terms of the procedures of heat
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`treatment, they could be the same.
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` Q And how about the results of the heat
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`treatment?
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` A I would -- hum. So it's not necessarily --
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`not necessarily so that if you had a nickel-titanium
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`09:58:42
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`material, as opposed to nickel-titanium endodontic
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`09:58:50
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`file which has been processed into that file, that
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`the materials would behave in an identical fashion
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`to heat treatment.
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` Q Do you think the teachings of methods and
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`09:59:07
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`results from heat-treating a nickel-titanium alloy
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`generally are informative regarding methods and
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`09:59:18
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`IPR2015-00632 – Ex. 1040
`US ENDODONTICS, LLC, Petitioner
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`PGR2015-00019 – Ex. 1045
`US Endodontics, LLC, Petitioner
`
`
`
`Videotaped Deposition of Robert Sinclair, Ph.D.
`Conducted on January 18, 2016
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`results to heat-treating a nickel-titanium
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`endodontic file?
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` A I think that they are informative. But
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`09:59:25
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`09:59:32
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`09:59:35
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`nickel titanium is a rather complicated material.
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`And so its precise history and, as we've mentioned
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`09:59:47
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`before, composition, are important to how it behaves
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`09:59:52
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`and how it -- how it might alter under heat
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`treatment conditions.
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` Q You have never heat treated a
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`nickel-titanium endodontic file. Correct?
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`09:59:59
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`10:00:08
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`10:00:17
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` A An endodontic file I believe I have not heat
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`treated.
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`10:00:25
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` Q Prior to your involvement in this case, you
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`10:00:26
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`had never overseen any testing concerning the heat
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`treatment of a nickel-titanium endodontic file.
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` Correct?
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`10:00:31
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`10:00:33
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` A I believe not. My -- a lot of my work was
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`10:00:35
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`on the other forms of nickel-titanium material.
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`10:00:39
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` Q When you say "other forms of nickel-titanium
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`10:00:44
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`material," what do you mean?
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` A So it could be wire. It could be sheet,
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`thin sheet.
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`10:00:56
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`IPR2015-00632 – Ex. 1040
`US ENDODONTICS, LLC, Petitioner
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`PGR2015-00019 – Ex. 1045
`US Endodontics, LLC, Petitioner
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`
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`Videotaped Deposition of Robert Sinclair, Ph.D.
`Conducted on January 18, 2016
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` Q Anything else?
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`10:01:01
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` A It could be pieces of nickel titanium which
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`have not been shaped.
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` Q Is it fair to say that your only knowledge
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`10:01:08
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`of the methods that are actually used for
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`heat-treating a nickel-titanium file comes from your
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`review of articles in connection with your work in
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`10:01:21
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`either the district court litigation or this IPR
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`proceeding?
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` MR. DAHLGREN: Objection. Form.
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`10:01:24
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`10:01:27
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`10:01:30
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` A So are you talking about endodontic files or
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`10:01:32
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`files in general?
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` Q Nickel-titanium endodontic files.
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`10:01:36
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`10:01:37
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` A Okay. So certainly my experience with this
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`form of nickel-titanium has been largely associated
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`with this case.
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` Q Did you have any experience with the heat
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`10:01:51
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`10:01:53
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`treatment of a nickel-titanium endodontic file prior
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`10:02:00
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`to your involvement with either the district court
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`10:02:05
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`proceeding filed by Dentsply against US Endodontics
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`or the present IPR proceeding?
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`10:02:13
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` A So as I mentioned, we have examined various
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`10:02:23
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`IPR2015-00632 – Ex. 1040
`US ENDODONTICS, LLC, Petitioner
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`PGR2015-00019 – Ex. 1045
`US Endodontics, LLC, Petitioner
`
`
`
`Videotaped Deposition of Robert Sinclair, Ph.D.
`Conducted on January 18, 2016
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`233
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` A It states that, Regardless that the 400
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`16:53:09
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`degrees C heat treatment increased Af of the ProFile
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`16:53:13
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`from 35 to 40 degrees C. That's the statement.
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` Q In Paragraph 81. So you're acknowledging
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`16:53:21
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`16:53:26
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`that the 400 degrees Celsius heat treatment in Kuhn
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`increased the austenite finish temperature of the
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`16:53:31
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`ProFile from 35 degrees Celsius to 40 degrees
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`Celsius. Correct?
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` MR. DAHLGREN: Objection. Form.
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`16:53:34
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`16:53:38
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`16:53:40
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` A So just checking the -- the data on the --
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`on the DSC curves. And it looks like the austenite
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`finish temperatures are approximately those values.
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` Q And obtaining an austenite finish
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`temperature of 39 degrees Celsius is what Dr. Luebke
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`16:54:31
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`told the patent and trademark office what his
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`invention published. Correct?
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` A He made that statement.
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`16:54:37
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`16:54:41
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`16:54:44
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` Q Now, you also cite another Kuhn reference,
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`16:54:46
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`which I believe has been identified as Exhibit 2024,
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`which I have a copy of right here, which I'm handing
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`to you.
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` (Gold Standard Exhibit 2024, previously
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`16:55:09
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`16:55:09
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`IPR2015-00632 – Ex. 1040
`US ENDODONTICS, LLC, Petitioner
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`PGR2015-00019 – Ex. 1045
`US Endodontics, LLC, Petitioner
`
`
`
`Videotaped Deposition of Robert Sinclair, Ph.D.
`Conducted on January 18, 2016
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`marked, attached to the transcript.)
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` A Thank you.
`
`234
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`16:55:09
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`16:55:10
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` Q You state that the Kuhn reference identified
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`16:55:11
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`as Exhibit 2024 expressly states that the files are
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`16:56:08
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`austenitic. Correct?
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` A That's what this article states.
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` Q Looking at Exhibit 2024.
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` Does Table 1 depict ProFiles that were
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`heat-treated at 400 degrees Celsius?
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`16:56:16
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`16:56:18
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`16:56:21
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`16:56:41
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`16:56:44
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` A Table 1 shows the results of the -- of the
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`16:56:49
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`x-ray data.
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` Q Does Table 1 depict ProFiles that are
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`heat-treated -- let me rephrase the question.
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` Does Table 1 depict the x-ray data of
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`ProFiles that were heat-treated at 400
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`degrees Celsius?
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` A It doesn't say that.
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`16:57:00
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`16:57:04
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`16:57:07
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`16:57:09
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`16:57:15
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`16:57:20
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`16:57:21
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` Q Do you know whether Figure 3 of Exhibit 2024
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`16:57:22
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`depicts a ProFile file heat-treated at 400 degrees
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`16:57:24
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`Celsius?
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` A Just checking the text.
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`16:57:29
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`16:57:45
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` It doesn't say which of the specimens is
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`16:57:49
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`IPR2015-00632 – Ex. 1040
`US ENDODONTICS, LLC, Petitioner
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`PGR2015-00019 – Ex. 1045
`US Endodontics, LLC, Petitioner
`
`
`
`Videotaped Deposition of Robert Sinclair, Ph.D.
`Conducted on January 18, 2016
`
`235
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`shown for the x-ray data in Figure 3.
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`16:57:56
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` Q Is the file depicted in Exhibit 3 -- let me
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`16:57:59
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`rephrase the question.
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`16:58:10
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` Is the ProFile file depicted in the XRD data
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`16:58:11
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`of Figure 3 of Exhibit 2024 in the austenite phase
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`16:58:17
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`at room temperature?
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`16:58:22
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` A Well, it's the way the authors interpreted
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`16:58:24
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`that figure.
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`16:58:32
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` Q How would you interpret it, Dr. Sinclair?
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`16:58:33
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` A So I would look at the DSC data as a
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`guideline and see that there -- for room
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`16:58:37
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`16:58:53
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`temperature, there -- it looks like there's a start
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`16:59:04
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`of a transformation.
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` Q What DSC data are you referring to?
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` What document are you looking at?
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`16:59:08
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`16:59:09
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`16:59:12
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` A The data which is in the 2002 Kuhn article.
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`16:59:14
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` Q That's Exhibit 1019?
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` A Yeah, that's how you know it. Yes.
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` Q Is there DSC data in the Kuhn two
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`thousand -- I'm sorry, yeah, 2001 article?
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`16:59:18
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`16:59:22
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`16:59:24
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`16:59:30
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` A There are no DSC data, but it looks like
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`16:59:34
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`these are the same materials.
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`16:59:37
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`IPR2015-00632 – Ex. 1040
`US ENDODONTICS, LLC, Petitioner
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`PGR2015-00019 – Ex. 1045
`US Endodontics, LLC, Petitioner
`
`
`
`Videotaped Deposition of Robert Sinclair, Ph.D.
`Conducted on January 18, 2016
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` Q Do you know whether they're the same
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`materials?
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`236
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`16:59:41
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`16:59:42
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` A Well, the descriptions are -- are -- are
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`16:59:44
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`equivalent.
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`16:59:49
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` Q Sitting here right now looking at Exhibit
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`16:59:50
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`2024, do you see any disclosure of the phase that a
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`16:59:54
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`ProFile file heat-treated at 400 degrees Celsius is
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`17:00:05
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`in?
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`17:00:10
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` A The authors have interpreted the x-ray data
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`17:00:13
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`to say that the files are austenitic at room
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`temperature.
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`17:00:17
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`17:00:21
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` Q Is that how you would interpret the data in
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`17:00:22
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`Exhibit 2024?
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`17:00:26
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` A Well, I would -- I would note that as the
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`17:00:28
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`authors describe, that the x-ray peak has some
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`significant width.
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`17:00:33
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`17:00:42
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` Q And which x-ray peak are you referring to?
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`17:00:43
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` A The 110 peak in Figure 3.
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`17:00:48
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` Q And what ProFile file does that correspond
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`17:00:51
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`to?
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`17:00:54
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` A It doesn't say which -- which file. This
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`17:01:18
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`is --
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`17:01:22
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`IPR2015-00632 – Ex. 1040
`US ENDODONTICS, LLC, Petitioner
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`PGR2015-00019 – Ex. 1045
`US Endodontics, LLC, Petitioner
`
`
`
`Videotaped Deposition of Robert Sinclair, Ph.D.
`Conducted on January 18, 2016
`
`237
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` Q So you don't know whether or not the ProFile
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`17:01:22
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`file referenced in Figure 3 refers to the ProFile
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`17:01:27
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`file heat-treated at 400 degrees Celsius. Correct?
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`17:01:38
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` A So the description in the paper says the XRD
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`17:01:44
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`scans show a 110 texture, peak width is an
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`indication of cold work. So it's the -- and
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`17:01:52
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`17:01:59
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`enlargement of the peak 110. It's apparent that the
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`17:02:03
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`experimental spectrum lines are extended.
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` Q Do you see any quantitative data in Kuhn
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`2001 that indicates that the ProFile file
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`heat-treated at 400 degrees Celsius is in the
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`17:02:11
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`17:02:17
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`17:02:23
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`17:02:31
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`austenite phase at room temperature or otherwise?
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`17:02:41
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` A So there's a statement which I'm looking for
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`which states that the -- their interpretation is
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`17:02:58
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`that the XRD data show the materials, the specimens,
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`17:03:02
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`to be in the austenite state.
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` Yeah. It's in the XRD, showing that the
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`17:03:09
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`17:03:16
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`alloys are fully austenite at temperature, is their
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`17:03:21
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`interpretation.
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`17:03:25
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` Q And where is the quantitative data showing
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`17:03:26
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`that the ProFile file heat-treated at 400 degrees
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`17:03:28
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`Celsius is austenite at room temperature?
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`17:03:31
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`IPR2015-00632 – Ex. 1040
`US ENDODONTICS, LLC, Petitioner
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`PGR2015-00019 – Ex. 1045
`US Endodontics, LLC, Petitioner
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`
`
`Videotaped Deposition of Robert Sinclair, Ph.D.
`Conducted on January 18, 2016
`
`238
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` MR. DAHLGREN: Objection. Form.
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`17:03:40
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` A So their interpretation is that the -- that
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`17:03:41
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`the files, that all specimens, have this 110 peak.
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`17:03:51
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`All specimens have the 110 peak.
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`17:04:00
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` Q So you're relying on a quantitative analysis
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`17:04:03
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`referenced by the authors of the Kuhn 2001 reference
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`17:04:06
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`that's Exhibit 2024?
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` MR. DAHLGREN: Objection. Form.
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` A I'm -- I'm sorry. What did you ask me?
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`17:04:12
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`17:04:17
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`17:04:18
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` Q Are you aware of any quantitative analysis
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`17:04:22
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`in Kuhn 2001 to indicate that the ProFile file
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`heat-treated at 400 degrees Celsius was in the
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`austenite phase at room temperature?
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` A Well, they --
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` MR. DAHLGREN: Objection to form.
`
` A They say that the XRD scans of all
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`17:04:24
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`17:04:30
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`17:04:32
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`17:04:36
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`17:04:37
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`17:04:39
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`specimens, all specimens show a 110 texture, and a
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`17:04:42
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`110 peak.
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`17:04:46
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` Q Can you point me to any data, actual data,
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`17:04:48
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`Dr. Sinclair, in Exhibit 2024, Kuhn 2001, that shows
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`17:04:51
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`that the ProFile file heat-treated at 400 degrees
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`17:04:58
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`Celsius was fully austenite at room temperature?
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`17:05:03
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`PLANET DEPOS
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`IPR2015-00632 – Ex. 1040
`US ENDODONTICS, LLC, Petitioner
`
`PGR2015-00019 – Ex. 1045
`US Endodontics, LLC, Petitioner
`
`
`
`Videotaped Deposition of Robert Sinclair, Ph.D.
`Conducted on January 18, 2016
`
`239
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` MR. DAHLGREN: Objection. Form.
`
`17:05:07
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` A They show examples of their XRD data. They
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`17:05:12
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`do not say that 400 degrees C is different from any
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`17:05:15
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`of the others.
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` Q In Paragraph 81 of your declaration you
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`17:05:19
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`refer to Table 1 of the Kuhn 2001 reference, Exhibit
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`17:05:22
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`2024, that states that the tested files are
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`austenite.
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` Do you see that?
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`17:05:29
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`17:05:33
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`17:05:34
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` A That's what the authors interpret it to be.
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`17:05:37
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` Q Now, Table 1, does that disclose any data
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`concerning the ProFile file heat-treated at 400
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`degrees Celsius?
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`17:05:41
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`17:05:46
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`17:05:49
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` A This shows the x-ray data at room -- of here
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`17:05:52
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`on ProFile at room temperature.
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`17:05:58
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` Q And does it disclose the x-ray data for the
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`17:05:59
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`ProFile file that was heat-treated at 400 degrees
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`17:06:03
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`Celsius?
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`17:06:05
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` A It does not state that it was for the file
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`17:06:07
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`heat-treated at 400 degrees Celsius.
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` Q And do you know whether --
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` MR. DAHLGREN: Jeff --
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`17:06:11
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`17:06:14
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`17:06:16
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`PLANET DEPOS
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`IPR2015-00632 – Ex. 1040
`US ENDODONTICS, LLC, Petitioner
`
`PGR2015-00019 – Ex. 1045
`US Endodontics, LLC, Petitioner
`
`
`
`Videotaped Deposition of Robert Sinclair, Ph.D.
`Conducted on January 18, 2016
`
`240
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` Q -- the data disclosed in Table 1 includes
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`17:06:16
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`data concerning the ProFile file heat-treated at 400
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`17:06:24
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`degrees Celsius?
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`17:06:27
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` A Well, because earlier they talk about the --
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`17:06:29
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`all the XRD scans, and they don't single out, pull
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`17:06:35
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`out any of the heat-treated files as being
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`different.
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` MR. DAHLGREN: So, Jeff, we've been
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`going well over an hour. When is a good time
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`to take a break? Can we do that?
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` MR. GINSBERG: Just a minute.
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` Q Do you see that there are four ProFile --
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`17:06:45
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`17:06:48
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`17:06:49
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`data for four Profile files depicted in Table 1 of
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`17:06:57
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`Exhibit 2014?
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` MR. DAHLGREN: Objection. Form.
`
` A I'm sorry, the --
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` Q In Table 1.
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` A Table 1 shows the positions of four x-ray
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`diffraction peaks.
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` Q And four x-ray diffraction peaks of which
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`ProFile files?
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` A It says data of Hero and ProFile.
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`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
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`17:07:00
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`IPR2015-00632 – Ex. 1040
`US ENDODONTICS, LLC, Petitioner
`
`PGR2015-00019 – Ex. 1045
`US Endodontics, LLC, Petitioner
`
`
`
`Videotaped Deposition of Robert Sinclair, Ph.D.
`Conducted on January 18, 2016
`
` Q Do you know which ProFile files are depicted
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`17:07:30
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`241
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`in Table 1?
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` A I do not know.
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` MR. GINSBERG: Okay. Let's take a
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`break.
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` VIDEO SPECIALIST: This marks the end
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`of Tape Number 6 in the deposition of Robert
`
`Sinclair, Ph.D. We are off the record at
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`5:07.
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` (A recess was taken.)
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` VIDEO SPECIALIST: Here begins Tape
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`Number 7 in the deposition of Robert
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`Sinclair, Ph.D. We are back on the record at
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`5:17.
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` MR. DAHLGREN: And, Jeff, just one
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`housekeeping matter. 37 CFR 4253 limits you
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`to seven hours of cross.
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`BY MR. GINSBERG:
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`17:07:32
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`17:07:35
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`17:07:40
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`17:07:41
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`17:18:00
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` Q Dr. Sinclair, the Kuhn reference that has
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`17:18:01
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`been marked Exhibit 1019 in this proceeding
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`17:18:06
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`discloses providing an elongated shank having a
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`17:18:10
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`cutting edge. Correct?
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`17:18:13
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`PLANET DEPOS
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`IPR2015-00632 – Ex. 1040
`US ENDODONTICS, LLC, Petitioner
`
`PGR2015-00019 – Ex. 1045
`US Endodontics, LLC, Petitioner
`
`
`
`Videotaped Deposition of Robert Sinclair, Ph.D.
`Conducted on January 18, 2016
`
` A Sorry. Let me find the Kuhn reference
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`17:18:19
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`242
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`again.
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` Q Exhibit 1019.
`
` A Exhibit 1019. And?
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`17:18:22
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`17:18:30
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`17:18:31
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` Q Kuhn discloses providing an elongated shank
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`17:18:40
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`having a cutting edge. Correct?
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`17:18:43
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` A It's using one of these standard files.
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`17:18:45
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` Q ProFile file?
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` A Yes. Uh-huh.
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`17:18:48
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`17:18:49
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` Q ProFile file includes a nickel-titanium
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`17:18:51
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`shank?
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` A Yes.
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`17:18:53
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`17:18:54
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` Q Made out of a superelastic nickel-titanium
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`17:18:54
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`material?
`
` A I believe so.
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` Q It also includes a handle. Correct?
`
` A I believe so.
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`17:18:58
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`17:18:58
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`17:18:59
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`17:19:01
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` Q The ProFile file depicted in Kuhn -- I
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`17:19:01
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`should say the ProFile files depicted in Kuhn were
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`17:19:13
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`comprised of superelastic nickel-titanium prior to
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`17:19:15
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`heat treatment. Correct?
`
` MR. DAHLGREN: Objection. Form.
`
`17:19:18
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`17:19:20
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`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
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`IPR2015-00632 – Ex. 1040
`US ENDODONTICS, LLC, Petitioner
`
`PGR2015-00019 – Ex. 1045
`US Endodontics, LLC, Petitioner
`
`
`
`Videotaped Deposition of Robert Sinclair, Ph.D.
`Conducted on January 18, 2016
`
` C E R T I F I C A T E
`
` I, Debra Ann Whitehead, Certified Reporter and Notary
`
`Public within and for the District of Columbia, do
`
`307
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`hereby certify:
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`That ROBERT SINCLAIR, Ph.D., the witness whose
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`deposition is hereinbefore set forth, was duly sworn
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`by me before the commencement of such deposition and
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`that such deposition was taken before me and is a true
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`record of the testimony given by such witness.
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`I further certify that the adverse party, GOLD
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`STANDARD INSTRUMENTS, LLC, was represented by counsel
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`at the deposition.
`
`I further certify that the deposition of ROBERT
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`SINCLAIR, Ph.D., occurred at the offices of ROTHWELL,
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`FIGG, ERNST & MANBECK, P.C., 607 14th Street, NW,
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`Suite 800, Washington, DC, 20005, on Monday, January
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`18, 2016, from 9:02 a.m. to 7:44 p.m.
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`PLANET DEPOS
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`IPR2015-00632 – Ex. 1040
`US ENDODONTICS, LLC, Petitioner
`
`PGR2015-00019 – Ex. 1045
`US Endodontics, LLC, Petitioner
`
`
`
`Videotaped Deposition of Robert Sinclair, Ph.D.
`Conducted on January 18, 2016
`
`308
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`I further certify that I am not related to any of the
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`parties to this action by blood or marriage, I am not
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`employed by or an attorney to any of the parties to
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`this action, and that I am in no way interested,
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`financially or otherwise, in the outcome of this
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`matter.
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`IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this
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`20th day of January, 2016
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`My commission expires:
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`September 14, 2018
`
`-----------------------------
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`NOTARY PUBLIC IN AND FOR THE
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`DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA
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`PLANET DEPOS
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`IPR2015-00632 – Ex. 1040
`US ENDODONTICS, LLC, Petitioner
`
`PGR2015-00019 – Ex. 1045
`US Endodontics, LLC, Petitioner
`
`