UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
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` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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`1
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`- - - - - - - - - - - - - x
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`US ENDODONTICS, LLC, :
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` Petitioner, : Case No. IPR2015-00632
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` v. : U.S. Patent No.
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`GOLD STANDARD : 8,727,773 B2
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`INSTRUMENTS, LLC, :
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` Patent Owner. :
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`- - - - - - - - - - - - - X
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` CONFIDENTIAL
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`Videotaped Deposition of NEILL H. LUEBKE, D.D.S., M.S.
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` Washington, DC
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` Wednesday, December 9, 2015
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` 9:05 a.m.
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`Job No.: 98825
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`Pages 1 - 266
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`Reported by: Debra A. Whitehead
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`IPR2015-00632 – Ex. 1038
`US ENDODONTICS, LLC, Petitioner
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`PGR2015-00019 – Ex. 1040
`US Endodontics, LLC, Petitioner
`
`
`
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`1
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`- - - - - - - - - - - - - x
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`US ENDODONTICS, LLC, :
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` Petitioner, : Case No. IPR2015-00632
`
` v. : U.S. Patent No.
`
`GOLD STANDARD : 8,727,773 B2
`
`INSTRUMENTS, LLC, :
`
` Patent Owner. :
`
`- - - - - - - - - - - - - X
`
` CONFIDENTIAL
`
`Videotaped Deposition of NEILL H. LUEBKE, D.D.S., M.S.
`
` Washington, DC
`
` Wednesday, December 9, 2015
`
` 9:05 a.m.
`
`Job No.: 98825
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`Pages 1 - 266
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`Reported by: Debra A. Whitehead
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`IPR2015-00632 – Ex. 1038
`US ENDODONTICS, LLC, Petitioner
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`PGR2015-00019 – Ex. 1040
`US Endodontics, LLC, Petitioner
`
`
`
`Confidential Videotaped Deposition of Neill H. Luebke, D.D.S., M.S.
`Conducted on December 9, 2015
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` Videotaped Deposition of NEILL H. LUEBKE, D.D.S.,
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`M.S., held at the offices of:
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`2
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` ROTHWELL, FIGG, ERNST & MANBECK, P.C.
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` 607 14th Street, NW
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` Suite 800
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` Washington, DC 20005
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` (202) 783-6040
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` Pursuant to agreement, before Debra A. Whitehead,
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`an Approved Reporter of the United States District
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`Court and Notary Public of the District of Columbia.
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`CONFIDENTIAL
`PLANET DEPOS | 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
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`IPR2015-00632 – Ex. 1038
`US ENDODONTICS, LLC, Petitioner
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`PGR2015-00019 – Ex. 1040
`US Endodontics, LLC, Petitioner
`
`
`
`Confidential Videotaped Deposition of Neill H. Luebke, D.D.S., M.S.
`Conducted on December 9, 2015
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`3
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` A P P E A R A N C E S
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` ON BEHALF OF PETITIONER:
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` JEFFREY S. GINSBERG, ESQUIRE
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` PATTERSON BELKNAP WEBB & TYLER LLP
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` 1133 Avenue of the Americas
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` New York, New York 10036-6710
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` (212) 336-2000
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` ON BEHALF OF PATENT OWNER:
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` DEREK F. DAHLGREN, ESQUIRE
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` JASON M. NOLAN, Ph.D., ESQUIRE
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` ROTHWELL, FIGG, ERNST & MANBECK, P.C.
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` 607 14th Street, NW
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` Suite 800
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` Washington, DC 20005
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` (202) 783-6040
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` ALSO PRESENT:
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` CAROLYN CORREA, Video Specialist
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`CONFIDENTIAL
`PLANET DEPOS | 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
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`IPR2015-00632 – Ex. 1038
`US ENDODONTICS, LLC, Petitioner
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`PGR2015-00019 – Ex. 1040
`US Endodontics, LLC, Petitioner
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`
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`Confidential Videotaped Deposition of Neill H. Luebke, D.D.S., M.S.
`Conducted on December 9, 2015
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` A No.
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`192
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`15:14:14
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` Q Now, have you ever heat-treated files below
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`15:14:14
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`375 degrees to determine whether or not they would
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`satisfy the permanent deformation limitation that's
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`set forth in the claims of your patent?
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` A I have not.
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` MR. DAHLGREN: And, Doctor --
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` THE WITNESS: Excuse me.
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`15:14:26
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`15:14:31
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`15:14:36
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`15:14:39
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`15:14:41
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` MR. DAHLGREN: I'm just going to object, to
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`15:14:42
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`the extent that you did any testing at counsel's
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`instruction, I'm going to instruct you not to
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`answer --
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` THE WITNESS: Okay.
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` MR. DAHLGREN: -- to that extent.
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` THE WITNESS: Okay.
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` MR. DAHLGREN: Otherwise you can answer.
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` Q You testified that you have not.
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` A Yeah. I haven't done anything less than
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`375.
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` Q Do you know whether you could heat-treat
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`files at less than 375 degrees and get the claimed
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`amount of permanent deformation?
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`CONFIDENTIAL
`PLANET DEPOS | 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
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`15:14:43
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`IPR2015-00632 – Ex. 1038
`US ENDODONTICS, LLC, Petitioner
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`PGR2015-00019 – Ex. 1040
`US Endodontics, LLC, Petitioner
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`
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`Confidential Videotaped Deposition of Neill H. Luebke, D.D.S., M.S.
`Conducted on December 9, 2015
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` MR. DAHLGREN: Objection. Scope.
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` Q That's set forth in the '773 patent?
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` A If I do what?
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` Q Do you know whether you could heat-treat
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`superelastic nickel-titanium files at less than 375
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`15:15:15
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`degrees and obtain the amount of permanent deformation
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`15:15:32
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`claimed in your '773 patent?
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` A I suspect you could.
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` Q Do you know?
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` A I haven't -- I haven't tried to narrow in
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`at the temperatures yet.
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`15:15:36
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`15:15:41
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`15:15:42
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` Q Do you believe you could heat-treat at 300
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`15:15:50
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`degrees and get the claimed amount of permanent
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`deformation?
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` MR. DAHLGREN: Objection. Scope.
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` A I guess you have to try.
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` Q You don't know?
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` A I don't know.
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`15:15:53
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`15:16:00
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` Q Could you heat-treat at 50 degrees and get
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`15:16:00
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`the claimed amount of permanent deformation?
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` MR. DAHLGREN: Objection. Scope.
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`Relevance.
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`15:16:05
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`15:16:07
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`15:16:08
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`CONFIDENTIAL
`PLANET DEPOS | 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
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`IPR2015-00632 – Ex. 1038
`US ENDODONTICS, LLC, Petitioner
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`PGR2015-00019 – Ex. 1040
`US Endodontics, LLC, Petitioner
`
`
`
`Confidential Videotaped Deposition of Neill H. Luebke, D.D.S., M.S.
`Conducted on December 9, 2015
`
`194
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` A I would guess not.
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` Q How about 100 degrees?
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` MR. DAHLGREN: Same objections.
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` A I would guess not.
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` Q How about 150 degrees?
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` MR. DAHLGREN: Same objections.
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` A How many temperatures are we going to do?
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` Q A few more.
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` A I -- I would guess not.
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` Q How about 250 degrees?
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` MR. DAHLGREN: Same objections.
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` A I would guess not.
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` MR. GINSBERG: Subject to any questioning
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`15:16:10
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`15:17:45
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`by your counsel, I don't have anything further for you
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`15:17:46
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`at this time.
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` THE WITNESS: Thank you.
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` MR. DAHLGREN: Okay. I will have some
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`redirect. Probably need 20 minutes; 15, 20 minutes.
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` MR. GINSBERG: Okay.
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` VIDEO SPECIALIST: We're going off the
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`record.
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` MR. GINSBERG: Could we go on the record
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`CONFIDENTIAL
`PLANET DEPOS | 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
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`15:17:51
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`IPR2015-00632 – Ex. 1038
`US ENDODONTICS, LLC, Petitioner
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`PGR2015-00019 – Ex. 1040
`US Endodontics, LLC, Petitioner
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`
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`Confidential Videotaped Deposition of Neill H. Luebke, D.D.S., M.S.
`Conducted on December 9, 2015
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`just for one more, please.
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` VIDEO SPECIALIST: We're still on.
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`195
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`15:18:04
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`15:18:05
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` MR. GINSBERG: I just want to note for the
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`15:18:06
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`record I don't believe any information that was
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`15:18:07
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`discussed here today is confidential information. If
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`15:18:09
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`you want to point out any portions of the transcript
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`that you believe are -- are confidential information
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`of patent owner, I ask that you identify them to me.
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`Because like I said, I don't believe any of these
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`15:18:11
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`15:18:14
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`15:18:15
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`15:18:19
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`portions require a confidentiality designation in this
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`15:18:21
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`proceeding.
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`15:18:25
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` MR. DAHLGREN: You got into some of the --
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`15:18:26
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`the license agreement provisions. So we'll take a
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`15:18:28
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`look at that and we'll follow up and let you know what
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`15:18:30
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`we think is confidential.
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` MR. GINSBERG: Thank you.
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` VIDEO SPECIALIST: We are going off the
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`record. The time is 3:18 p.m.
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` (A recess was taken.)
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` VIDEO SPECIALIST: We're back on the
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`record. The time is 3:44 p.m.
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` EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR PATENT OWNER
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`15:18:33
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`15:18:34
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`15:18:35
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`15:18:37
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`15:18:40
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`15:44:14
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`15:44:18
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`15:44:23
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`CONFIDENTIAL
`PLANET DEPOS | 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
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`IPR2015-00632 – Ex. 1038
`US ENDODONTICS, LLC, Petitioner
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`PGR2015-00019 – Ex. 1040
`US Endodontics, LLC, Petitioner
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`
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`Confidential Videotaped Deposition of Neill H. Luebke, D.D.S., M.S.
`Conducted on December 9, 2015
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` C E R T I F I C A T E
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` I, Debra Ann Whitehead, Certified Reporter and
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`Notary Public within and for the District of Columbia,
`
`263
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`do hereby certify:
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` That NEILL H. LUEBKE, D.D.S., M.S., the
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`witness whose deposition is hereinbefore set forth,
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`was duly sworn by me before the commencement of such
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`deposition and that such deposition was taken before
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`me and is a true record of the testimony given by such
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`witness.
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` I further certify that the adverse party,
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`US ENDODONTICS, LLC, was represented by counsel at the
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`deposition.
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` I further certify that the deposition of
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`NEILL H. LUEBKE, D.D.S., M.S., occurred at the offices
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`of ROTHWELL, FIGG, ERNST & MANBECK, P.C., 607 14th
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`Street, NW, Suite 800, Washington, DC, 20005, on
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`Wednesday, December 9, 2015, from 9:05 a.m. to 5:42
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`p.m.
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`CONFIDENTIAL
`PLANET DEPOS | 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
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`IPR2015-00632 – Ex. 1038
`US ENDODONTICS, LLC, Petitioner
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`PGR2015-00019 – Ex. 1040
`US Endodontics, LLC, Petitioner
`
`
`
`Confidential Videotaped Deposition of Neill H. Luebke, D.D.S., M.S.
`Conducted on December 9, 2015
`
`264
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` I further certify that I am not related to
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`any of the parties to this action by blood or
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`marriage, I am not employed by or an attorney to any
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`of the parties to this action, and that I am in no way
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`interested, financially or otherwise, in the outcome
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`of this matter.
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` IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my
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`hand this 20th day of December, 2015.
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`My commission expires:
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`September 14, 2018
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`-----------------------------
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`NOTARY PUBLIC IN AND FOR THE
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`DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA
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`CONFIDENTIAL
`PLANET DEPOS | 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
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`IPR2015-00632 – Ex. 1038
`US ENDODONTICS, LLC, Petitioner
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`PGR2015-00019 – Ex. 1040
`US Endodontics, LLC, Petitioner
`
`
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