throbber
Page 1
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`** HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL **
`UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
`FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF TENNESSEE
`GREENEVILLE DIVISION
`Civil Action No. 2:14-CV-00196
`
`-----------------------------------x
`
`DENTSPLY INTERNATIONAL, INC. and TULSA
`DENTAL PRODUCTS LLC d/b/a TULSA DENTAL
`SPECIALTIES,
`
`Plaintiffs,
`
`- against "'"
`
`US ENDODONTICS, LLC,
`
`Defendant.
`
`-----------------------------------x
`
`September 19, 2014
`9:24 a.m.
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`Videotaped Deposition of BOBBY
`16 1
`BENNETT, taken by Plaintiffs, pursuant to
`17
`18 Notice, held at the offices of Kenyon &
`19! Kenyon LLP, One Broadway, New York, New
`20 York, before Todd DeSimone, a Registered
`21 Professional Reporter and Notary Public of
`22
`the State of New York.
`23
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`251 L.
`VERITEXT REPORTING COMPANY
`case21:1-i~'t-Wf96-JRG-DHI Documen'fi'W6Y!ritFf!~£P~/12/14 Page 2 of 74 lJ§~b~00
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`GOLD STANDARD EXHIBIT 2008
`US ENDODONTICS v. GOLD STANDARD
`CASE PGR2015-00019
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`in your patent application prior to your
`
`employment with D&S Dental; is that right?
`
`A.
`
`That's correct.
`
`MR. GINSBERG: Objection to the
`
`form of the question.
`
`go?
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`After D&S Dental where did you
`
`I actually started my own
`
`10 business.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`And what business was that?
`
`It is US Endodontics.
`
`Did you start that business by
`
`yourself?
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`15
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`16
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`A.
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`Q.
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`17 with?
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`No.
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`Who did you start the business
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`18
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`19
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`2 0
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`A.
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`Q.
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`Dr. Chuck Goodis.
`
`Did you start the
`
`anyone else?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`No.
`
`And when did you meet Dr. Chuck
`
`23 Goodis?
`
`24
`
`A.
`
`I still haven't met Dr. Chuck
`
`25 Goodis until this day, believe it or not.
`
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`Q.
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`How did you and Dr. Goodis come
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`to form a company together?
`
`A.
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`Q.
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`A.
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`Q.
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`A.
`
`Q.
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`A.
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`Q.
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`A.
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`We had a mutual friend.
`
`And who was that?
`
`John Ferone.
`
`Is that F-e-r-r-o-n-e?
`
`F-e-r-o-n-e.
`
`One R?
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`One R.
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`And what does John Ferone do?
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`Today he is a sales manager
`
`13 with Henry Schein.
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`Q.
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`Has John Ferone had any
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`involvement in US Endo?
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`A.
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`Q.
`
`No.
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`So approximately when did you
`
`start US Endo?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`It was in 2011.
`
`What are your current job
`
`responsibilities at US Endo?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Managing the operation.
`
`Do you have any other
`
`responsibilities there?
`
`A.
`
`That's it, manage the
`
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`operation.
`
`Q.
`
`So are you also involved in
`
`inventory control, then?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`To a degree.
`
`Are you involved in quality?
`
`It's a small company.
`
`I'm
`
`involved in everything.
`
`Q.
`
`Approximately how many
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`employees does US Endo have?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
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`Q.
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`21.
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`Do you report to anyone?
`
`No.
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`Zs Dr. Goodis an employee of US
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`15 Endo?
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`A.
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`Q.
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`No.
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`So are you and Dr. Goodis
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`co-owners of US Endo?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Correct.
`
`And approximately how much do
`
`you own of US Endo?
`I own II percent.
`MR. GINSBERG: We are getting
`
`A .
`
`into matters of confidential information.
`
`I would like to designate this entire
`
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`transcript highly confidential pursuant to
`
`the protective order.
`
`MR. DAHLGREN: Okay.
`
`Q.
`
`And
`
`Goodis own
`
`remainder of US Endo?
`
`A.
`Q.
`
`-
`So how many people report to
`
`you at US Endo?
`
`A.
`
`Well, I guess 21.
`
`It is an
`
`informal structure. We don't believe in
`
`the rigidity.
`
`Q.
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`And do you hold any other
`
`14 positions at US Endo?
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`15
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`16
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`19
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`A.
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`Q.
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`No.
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`And have you previously held
`
`any other positions there?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`No.
`
`And so other than Quality
`
`20 Dental, Tulsa Dental, Dentsply, D&S Dental
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`21
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`22
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`23
`
`and US Endo, you haven't worked anywhere
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`else since high school?
`
`A.
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`Well, we can go back to when I
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`24 was 16 and worked at White's Grocery if
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`25
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`you would like.
`
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`that Edge Endo and US Endo share?
`
`MR. GINSBERG: Objection to the
`
`form of the question.
`
`A.
`
`There was for a short period of
`
`time, but I do not believe there is any
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`longer, outside of Sharon. Sharon is
`
`still a shared employee.
`
`Q.
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`And does US Endo pay part of
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`10 Sharon's salary?
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`A.
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`Yeah, i t is a very small amount
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`of it, and I don't know
`
`I don't even
`
`know what that amount is. But yes, we do
`
`pay a very small amount to Sharon.
`
`Q.
`
`And is US Endo a Tennessee LLC?
`
`MR. GINSBERG: Objection to the
`
`form.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`It is a New Mexico LLC.
`
`So going back to US Endo, does
`
`US Endo have an engineering division?
`
`MR. GINSBERG: Objection, asked
`
`and answered,
`
`I believe.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`I would still say no.
`
`employees at US Bndo?
`
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`Q.
`
`And so for the forecast three
`
`Page 58
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`3 months out where you are increasing from
`IIIII total units to
`are any of the X1, XS or X7 quantities
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`total units,
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`actually decreasing?
`
`A.
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`Q.
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`No.
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`When was the XR EdgeFile
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`introduced to market?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`I have no idea.
`
`I'm not sure.
`
`Do you recall approximately?
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`I don't.
`
`I don't recall at all
`
`actually.
`
`Q.
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`A.
`
`recall.
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`Was it this year?
`
`I don't recall.
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`I don't
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`Q.
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`Do you consider the EdgeFiles
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`an important part of US Endo's business?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Endo?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Endo?
`
`Yes.
`
`There are a core product of OS
`
`Yes.
`
`Why are they so important to US
`
`MR. GINSBERG: Objection to the
`
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`form of the question.
`
`Q.
`
`Why are the EdgeFiles so
`
`important to US Endo?
`
`MR. GINSBERG: Objection to the
`
`form of the question.
`
`A.
`
`know.
`
`stream, you
`
`Q.
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`Is i t -- are the EdgeFiles
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`10
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`responsible for a significant portion of
`
`US Endo's revenue?
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`12
`
`13
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`A.
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`Q.
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`Yes.
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`Do you recall roughly what
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`14 portion of US Endo's revenue is due to the
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`15 EdgeFiles?
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`16
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
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`No.
`Is it II percent?
`It is significant.
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`I don't
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`19
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`know what
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`20
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`21
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`22
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`23
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`24
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`25
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`Q.
`
`Would you say greater than
`
`percent?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
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`No, not without doing the math.
`
`Does US Endo have any other
`
`products that you consider core products?
`
`A.
`
`Yeah.
`
`I mean, every product
`
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`that we manufacture is important to our
`
`business. All of them have a nice revenue
`
`stream, so yeah, they are all important.
`
`Q.
`
`Are there any other products
`
`that US Endo sells that are as profitable
`
`as the EdgeFiles?
`
`-
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`any other products
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`1
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`2
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`6
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`8
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`10
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`that US Endo sells that are responsible
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`for as much revenue as EdgeFiles?
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`A.
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`I'm not sure.
`
`I'm not sure.
`
`I
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`would have to break i t down and look at
`
`14
`
`15
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`16
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`17
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`18
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`19
`
`it.
`
`Q.
`
`Do you consider the EdgeFiles
`
`to be a successful product?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Yes.
`
`So have you received positive
`
`feedback from Edge Endo regarding the
`
`20 EdgeFiles?
`
`21
`
`22
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`No,
`
`I can't say that I have.
`
`So what makes you think of the
`
`23 EdgeFiles as a successful product?
`
`24
`
`25
`
`A.
`
`Because of the testing that we
`
`conducted on them.
`
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`BENNETT
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`Q.
`
`So what testing did you do on
`
`the EdgeFiles?
`
`A.
`
`The one that I was most pleased
`
`with was cyclic fatigue testing.
`
`It shows
`
`the durability of a product. That's the
`
`test that
`
`Q.
`
`So what caused the EdgeFiles to
`
`have such good results in the cyclic
`
`fatigue testing?
`
`MR. GINSBERG: Objection to the
`
`form of the question and to the extent
`
`that it calls for expert testimony.
`
`A.
`
`The processing of the material.
`
`15 There is many factors that tie into it.
`
`Q.
`
`So what type of processing did
`
`you do to the materials that you think
`
`resulted in good results in the cyclic
`
`fatigue testing?
`
`MR. GINSBERG: Objection to the
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`16
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`17
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`18
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`form of the question.
`
`• • -
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`-···-· ••
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`--
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`II
`
`No. ----(cid:173)••
`·--
`
`MR. GINSBERG: Objection to
`
`A. •
`•
`
`form.
`
`Q.
`
`Has US Endo gotten any feedback
`
`from endodontists or other end users of
`
`its products?
`
`A.
`
`Yes,
`
`I have got feedback from
`
`an endodontist on the product.
`
`Q.
`
`And to be clear, that's on the
`
`16 EdgeFiles?
`
`17
`
`18
`
`A.
`
`On the EdgeFiles, but it is
`
`actually, I'm thinking through this
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`19 process, so actually the person that I
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`have gotten feedback from is Chuck Goodis
`
`as far as the performance of the product.
`
`Q.
`
`And what did Dr. Goodis say
`
`about the performance of the EdgeFiles?
`
`A.
`
`He said he was pleased with
`
`them.
`
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`finished product.
`
`It is a lean term.
`
`Q.
`
`It caught me off guard.
`
`So do you make the -- excuse
`
`5 me, does US Endo make the shanks used in
`
`6
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`7
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`8
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`9
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`10
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`11
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`12
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`13
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`EdgeFiles in-house?
`
`MR. GINSBERG: Objection to
`
`form.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`No.
`
`Does US Endo make the handles
`
`used in EdgeFiles in-house?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`No.
`
`So where are the shanks for the
`
`14 EdgeFiles obtained from?
`
`15
`
`16
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`They arrive from
`
`And in what form are the shanks
`
`17 when they arrive from
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
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`21
`
`22
`
`MR. GINSBERG: Objection to
`
`form. No pun intended.
`
`MR. DAHLGREN: That was a good
`
`one.
`
`A .
`
`They are an un-heat-treated
`
`23 well, let's just say they are a nickel
`
`24
`
`25
`
`titanium file.
`
`Q .
`
`Why did you say they -- why
`
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`2 wouldn't you say they are unheated?
`
`3
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`4 I form.
`Q.
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`5
`
`MR. GINSBERG: Objection to
`
`Why wouldn't you say the nickel
`
`6
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`7
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`8
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`9
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`titanium files received from
`
`are unheated?
`
`MR. GINSBERG: Objection to
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`form.
`
`I
`
`10 • • • .t
`--t
`------
`•
`• • • • • • • • 23
`-·-·---
`• •
`
`Q .
`
`Are the NiTi files received
`
`24
`
`25
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`from
`
`superelastic?
`
`MR. GINSBERG: Objection to the
`
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`Page 71
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`. ·-·(cid:173)
`·-·-
`·(cid:173)
`--· ·-
`• -
`
`Q.
`
`Do you have any reason to
`
`bel.ieve that they do not exhibit
`
`superel.asticity?
`
`MR. GINSBERG: Objection to
`
`form.
`
`• ~-- ·--·
`
`Q.
`
`Do you have any agreements with
`
`with respect to the purchase of
`
`these NiTi fil.es for use in the EdgeFil.es?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`No.
`
`So how do you go about
`
`purchasing these NiTi files?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`files?
`
`I don't purchase them.
`
`How do you obtain these NiTi
`
`A.
`
`They are forwarded to me by
`
`Edge En do.
`
`Q.
`
`Does Edge Endo provide all the
`
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`25
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`VERITEXT REPORTING COMPANY
`212-267-6868
`www.veritext.com
`516-608-2400
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`BENNETT
`
`- HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL
`
`bands for use in the EdgeFiles?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`And does US Endo do any
`
`acceptance testing on the bands?
`
`A.
`
`Yes, they do. They do a visual
`
`inspection and then they measure the wall
`
`thickness of it, I believe.
`
`Q.
`
`So going back to the shanks
`
`received from Edge Endo, do you know what
`
`the nickel composition of the shanks is?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`No,
`
`I do not.
`
`And do you know what the
`
`titanium composition of the shanks are?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`I don't.
`
`Do you know if the nickel and
`
`titanium compositions vary between the
`
`18 different EdgeFile products?
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`A.
`
`Q .
`
`I do not know.
`
`Do you know if US Endo has
`
`always used the same shank for its
`
`22 EdgeFiles?
`
`23
`
`24
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`I don't know.
`
`Does Edge Endo provide
`
`25 different shanks for the X1, X3, X5, X7
`
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` 5133
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`

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`Page 80
`
`BENNETT
`
`- HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL
`
`and XR EdgeFile products?
`
`MR. GINSBERG: Objection to
`
`form.
`
`A.
`Part of your question is
`confusing. Ill Ill
`IIIII III
`111111111
`11-11111-
`And what do you mean by
`
`...... _
`blades? ·-
`
`Q .
`
`1
`
`2
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`3
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`6
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`I
`9
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`10
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`II
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`... _
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`11
`A .
`II I l l -
`Q.
`13
`
`I understand. And the shanks
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`that are received from US Endo, they vary
`
`in terms of length, taper and diameter; is
`
`that correct?
`
`A.
`
`Yes. Our blades have different
`
`tip diameters, tapers and lengths.
`
`(Bennett Exhibit 4 marked for
`
`identification.)
`
`Q.
`
`So this is Bennett Exhibit 4,
`
`22 which is a product and pricing catalog
`
`2 3
`
`24
`
`25
`
`from Edge Endo.
`
`You can take a minute to look
`
`document.
`
`Just let me know when
`
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`BENNETT
`
`- HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`No.
`
`At what temperature does US
`
`Endo heat the files?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`500 degrees C.
`
`And how long does US Endo heat
`
`10
`
`Q.
`
`Bow does US Endo determine the
`
`·-
`
`11 duration of the heat treatment process?
`• I l l - Ill
`
`A .
`
`12
`
`• 14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`depending on the type of EdgeFile?
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Does the duration vary
`
`-
`
`500 degrees C, the
`
`18 heating temperature used in the heat
`
`19
`
`treatment process by US Endo is the same
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`for all of the EdgeFiles that are
`
`subjected to a heat treatment step?
`
`A .
`
`23
`
`Q.
`
`• -
`
`25
`
`US Endo?
`
`Bow is the
`
`communicated to
`
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`1
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`BENNETT
`
`- HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL
`
`length EdgeFiles X3s on page 2 of Bennett
`
`3 Exhibit 4, do you recall approximately how
`
`Page 98
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`long those were heat-treated by US Endo?
`
`A.
`
`You know, I'm not confident on
`
`the first few sizes. On the -- from the
`
`size 30 up, on the 30 and the 40,
`that is I
`the same thing for the 25 and 29
`
`heat treatment.
`
`I know
`
`It is
`
`10 millimeter.
`
`11
`
`Q.
`
`So all of the 25 millimeter
`
`12 EdgeFile X3s and 29 millimeter EdgeFile
`13 X3s are heated for 1111 hours; is that
`14
`right?
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
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`22
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`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`No, that's not correct.
`
`Sorry, are you referring to
`
`just the size 30 and 40s?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Correct.
`
`For the other sizes of the 21,
`
`25 and 29 millimeter EdgeFile X3s, do you
`
`recall how long those are heated?
`
`A.
`
`I don't, not with detail.
`
`I
`
`could be off on those.
`
`Q.
`
`What different durations does
`
`US Endo use for the heat treatment step?
`
`VERITEXT REPORTING COMPANY
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`BENNETT - HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL
`
`Page 99
`
`A.
`
`· - - - · - -
`
`------
`
`And that's where my confusion
`
`is coming in at these first two.
`
`I can't
`
`recall specifically if they are at -
`
`-
`
`•
`
`-
`
`because i t is typically
`
`based off of diameter, what I've seen
`
`anyhow, and those are too close for me to
`
`speculate without looking at something.
`
`Q.
`
`Do you have any documentation
`
`that details the duration of the heat
`
`treatment process that US Endo uses for
`
`these particular size EdgeFile X3s that
`
`are reflected in Bennett Exhibit 4 on
`
`pages 2 and 3?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`I do.
`
`And you would be able to look
`
`at that documentation regarding the
`
`duration of heat treatment to figure out
`
`how long they were heated?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Yes.
`
`But right now it's your
`
`understanding that it is either -- excuse
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`24
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`25 me, right now it is your understanding
`
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`Page 145
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`BENNETT
`
`- HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL
`
`to its manufacturing process for the
`
`EdgeFiles that it provides to Edge Endo?
`
`MR. GINSBERG: Objection.
`
`I
`
`5 would just caution you not to reveal the
`
`6
`
`substance of any attorney-client
`
`7
`
`8
`
`A.
`
`communications or work product privilege.
`I •
`-
`-
`•
`I
`
`-
`
`•
`
`I-· -
`--
`.
`-·-· -(cid:173)
`.
`. --
`·-·-
`. ··-··
`··-
`• 15
`
`Q.
`
`there any other changes
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`contemplated in the manufacturing process
`
`used by the
`
`A.
`
`No, that's it. That's the only
`
`one.
`
`Q.
`
`So US Endo is not planning to
`
`change
`
`temperature i t uses in the
`
`heating step in its manufacturing process
`
`for the EdgeFiles that it provides to Edge
`
`Endo; is that right?
`
`A.
`
`Not as of now.
`
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`BENNETT
`
`- HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`heat treat.
`
`What is it?
`
`It is a work instructions for
`
`Q.
`
`And earlier we discussed Scott
`
`Smith and Brittany Blair. Scott Smith is
`
`an independent contractor that helps with
`
`quality; is that right?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`That's correct, yes.
`
`And Brittany Blair is a US Endo
`
`employee; is that right?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`That's correct.
`
`So is this heat treatment work
`
`instruction reflected in Bennett Exhibit 9
`
`the instruction that's used for all the
`
`16 heat-treated EdgeFiles provided to Edge
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
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`20
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`21
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`22
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`23
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`24
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`25
`
`Endo?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Correct.
`
`And looking at -- and does this
`
`document, Bennett Exhibit 9, reflect the
`
`heat treatment process that we've
`
`discussed during your deposition today?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Yes, it does.
`
`And the proprietary temperature
`
`that US Endo uses for the heat treatment
`
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`BENNETT
`
`- HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL
`
`process of the EdgeFiles i t provides to
`
`Edge Endo, is that the 500 degrees Celsius
`
`that we discussed earlier?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`That's correct.
`
`So on page 2 of Bennett Exhibit
`
`9, on step 4 -- excuse me, sequence 4, i t
`
`says "confirm oven temperature has reached
`
`proprietary setting and is stable," that's
`
`10
`
`referring to the 500 degrees Celsius; is
`
`that right?
`
`12
`
`13
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`That's correct.
`
`So this document, Bennett
`
`14 Exhibit 9, was created in November of
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`2013.
`
`Prior to that time, did US Endo
`
`have any documentation of the heat
`
`treatment step used in the manufacturing
`
`process for the EdgeFiles?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`No.
`
`And is Bennett Exhibit 9 still
`
`an accurate representation of the heat
`
`treatment process that US Endo uses for
`
`the EdgeFiles?
`
`A.
`
`Yes.
`
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`Page 187
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`BENNETT
`
`- HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`recall?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Cyclic fatigue test.
`
`Is that the only test that you
`
`Yes.
`
`So how much does US Endo sell
`
`the EdgeFiles to Edge Endo for?
`
`A.
`Well, there is different
`prices, but the primary price is IIIII per
`six-pack.
`
`Q.
`
`And is that for all of the
`
`12 EdgeFiles that happen to be sold in
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`six-packs?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Yes.
`
`And there are some EdgeFiles
`
`that are sold in three-packs; is that
`
`right?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`those?
`
`Correct.
`
`And what is the price for
`
`A.
`
`I can't answer that question
`
`22 with certainty.
`It wouldn't be 111111 just half
`
`23
`
`Q.
`
`24
`
`25
`
`of the
`
`A.
`
`I kind of doubt it.
`
`But it
`
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` 5155
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`l?age 195
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`1
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`BENNETT
`
`• -(cid:173)• Q.
`
`- HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL
`
`···(cid:173)-· --··
`
`So, that said, is the
`
`information reflected in Bennett Exhibit
`
`18 accurate?
`
`A.
`
`To my kno•ledge, to the best of
`
`my knowledge, this is accurate.
`
`Q.
`
`And there is nothing in here
`
`that you would like to change; is that
`
`right?
`
`form.
`
`MR. GINSBERG: Objection to
`
`Q.
`
`Excuse me, there is nothing in
`
`16 Bennett Exhibit 18 that you think should
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`be changed; is that right?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`That's correct.
`
`So looking at page 2 of Bennett
`
`20 Exhibit 18, I note that the accountants
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`used are from Albuquerque, New Mexico; is
`
`that right?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Correct.
`
`Were these accountants
`
`recommended by Dr. Goodis?
`
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`BENNETT
`
`- HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL
`
`A.
`
`Q .
`
`Correct.
`
`So in Exhibit 18, how much cash
`
`does Exhibit 18 show US Endo has on hand
`
`as of June 30th, 2014?
`
`MR. GINSBERG: Objection to
`
`form.
`
`A .
`
`It would be the total of our
`
`the
`
`there.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`-
`
`and -
`
`-
`
`values
`
`So it would be roughly
`
`Yeah, roughly.
`
`Are you aware how much cash on
`
`hand US Endo has as of today,
`
`approximately?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`I have no idea.
`
`Do you have any reason to
`
`18 believe it's significantly different than
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`24
`
`the number reflected in Exhibit 18?
`
`MR. GINSBERG: Objection to
`
`form.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Again,
`
`I couldn't make a
`
`So what's reflected in the
`
`25 Accounts Receivable - Trade on page 3 of
`
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` 5159
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`
`- HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL
`
`tomorrow, would US Endo be able
`
`Page 200
`
`to pay it?
`
`form.
`
`MR. GINSBERG: Objection to
`
`A.
`
`I
`
`think -- I
`
`think -- yeah,
`
`that's something that I really can't
`
`comment on.
`
`I don't see a problem with
`
`it.
`
`Q .
`
`comment on it.
`
`Well, I'm not asking you to
`If Ill 111111 needed his
`tomorrow, would US Endo have the
`
`cash to pay him?
`
`A.
`
`I don't know.
`
`I don't know if
`
`they would or wouldn't.
`
`Q.
`
`Well, if US Endo had a
`
`judgment against i t in this
`
`lawsuit next month, would US Endo be able
`
`to pay it?
`
`A.
`
`I don't know.
`
`How would you determine whether
`Q.
`US Endo could pay Ill
`tomorrow?
`
`back
`
`MR. GINSBERG: Objection to the
`
`form of the question, and I will object
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`1
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`2 3
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`24
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`25
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`VERITEXT REPORTING COMPANY
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`www.veritext.com
`212-267-6868
`Case 2:14-cv-00196-JRG-DHI Document 156-1 Filed 12/12/14 Page 55 of 74 PageID #:
` 5161
`
`

`
`BENNETT - HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL
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`technology?
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`Page 221
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`MR. GINSBERG: Objection to
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`1
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`2
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`3
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`4
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`5
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`6
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`form.
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`A.
`
`Q.
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`-
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`So if in July 2015 us En do had
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`to pay a •
`
`could US
`
`Endo do that, in your opinion?
`
`MR. GINSBERG: Objection to
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`10
`
`form of the question. Calls for expert
`
`testimony.
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`13
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`14
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`A.
`
`Q.
`
`My answer will be I don't know.
`
`So in your forecast that's
`
`reflected in Bennett Exhibit 21, the sales
`
`figures for the EdgeFiles which are a
`
`16 major revenue source for US Endo are only
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`17
`
`18
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`19
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`20
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`21
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`22
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`23
`
`24
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`25
`
`approximately; is that
`
`right?
`
`MR. GINSBERG: Objection to the
`
`form of the question.
`
`A.
`
`Q .
`
`Correct.
`
`And that's not US Endo's profit
`
`on the sales of those EdgeFiles, right?
`
`A .
`
`Q.
`
`That's correct.
`
`The profit would be much less
`
`VERITEXT REPORTING COMPANY
`www. veri text. com
`212-267-6868
`516-608-2400
`Case 2:14-cv-00196-JRG-DHI Document 156-1 Filed 12/12/14 Page 59 of 74 PageID #:
` 5165
`
`

`
`BENNETT - HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL
`
`Page 222
`
`form.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`MR. GINSBERG: Objection to
`
`It would be less.
`
`Approximately how much less do
`
`you think US Endo's profit would be on the
`
`sales for July 2014 through July 2015 that
`
`you forecasted in Bennett Exhibit 21?
`
`MR. GINSBERG: Objection to
`
`form.
`
`A.
`rough, I •
`Q.
`
`We roughly have, and it is
`
`So if US Endo had to pay -- we
`
`talked about this a little bit earlier,
`
`but I want to go into a little bit more
`
`1
`
`3
`
`4
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`5
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`6
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`7
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`8
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`9
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`10
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`11
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`12
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`13
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`14
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`15
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`16
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`17 detail -- had to pay a •
`
`judgment
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
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`today, could you do that -- could US Endo
`
`do that without going out of business?
`
`MR. GINSBERG: Objection.
`
`21 Calls for expert testimony.
`
`22
`
`23
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`The answer is I don't know.
`
`So as a co-owner and as
`
`24 director of operations, you can't tell me
`
`25
`
`today whether US Endo could survive a •
`
`VERITEXT REPORTING COMPANY
`212-267-6868
`www.veritext.com
`516-608-2400
`Case 2:14-cv-00196-JRG-DHI Document 156-1 Filed 12/12/14 Page 60 of 74 PageID #:
` 5166
`
`

`
`Page 223
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`1
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`2
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`3
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`4
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`BENNETT
`
`- HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL
`
`hit tomorrow?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`You got it. You are correct.
`
`And I would need to talk to Jim
`
`5 Vandergeest or Dr. Goodis in order to find
`
`6
`
`out whether or not US Endo could incur a
`
`7 •
`
`8
`
`hit?
`
`MR. GINSBERG: Objection to the
`
`9
`
`form of the question. Calls for expert
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`15
`
`16
`
`testimony.
`
`I'm giving you some leeway
`
`here, but you are getting to the point of
`
`badgering the witness right now the way
`
`you are asking these questions. The
`
`record will speak for itself, and, you
`
`know, you are asking the same questions
`
`over and over.
`
`I'm giving you some
`
`18
`
`leeway. Objection to the form of the
`
`19 question.
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`A.
`
`That is a hypothetical
`
`question.
`
`I can't speak for either Jim
`
`nor Chuck.
`
`Q .
`
`Does US Endo have
`
`in
`
`cash reserves as of today?
`
`A.
`
`I don't know.
`
`VERITEXT REPORTING COMPANY
`www.veritext.com
`212-267-6868
`516-608-2400
`Case 2:14-cv-00196-JRG-DHI Document 156-1 Filed 12/12/14 Page 61 of 74 PageID #:
` 5167
`
`

`
`1
`
`2
`
`BENNETT
`
`- HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL
`
`Q.
`
`In your opinion, what's the
`
`3 most that US Endo could afford to pay in
`
`Page 224
`
`4
`
`5
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`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`18
`
`this litigation for a
`
`judgment if a
`
`judgment came down today without going out
`
`of business?
`
`MR. GINSBERG: Objection to
`
`form.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`I don't know.
`
`trying to get different ways to see if
`
`there is some information you do know.
`
`But if you have no opinion
`
`about the financial wherewithal of US Endo
`
`to pay anything in this lawsuit, please
`
`tell me right now.
`
`A.
`
`Yes.
`
`MR. GINSBERG: Objection.
`
`19 Objection to the form of the question. Go
`
`2 0
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`ahead.
`
`A.
`
`I cannot tell you whether or
`
`not we could sustain something like that
`
`or not.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay.
`
`So sitting here today,
`
`you can't say that US Endo would be able
`
`VERITEXT REPORTING COMPANY
`www. veri text. com
`212-267-6868
`516-608-2400
`Case 2:14-cv-00196-JRG-DHI Document 156-1 Filed 12/12/14 Page 62 of 74 PageID #:
` 5168
`
`

`
`Page 229
`
`1
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`2
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`3
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`4
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`5
`
`6
`
`BENNETT
`
`- HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL
`
`Q.
`
`Are you aware if there is
`
`anyone that would pay a
`
`judgment on US
`
`Endo's behalf in this lawsuit?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`No.
`
`Do you know if Charles Goodis
`
`7 would personally pay any judgment in this
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`lawsuit?
`
`form.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`MR. GINSBERG: Objection to
`
`I don't know.
`
`Have you seen any of the legal
`
`13 bills for this lawsuit?
`
`14
`
`15
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Not yet.
`
`Are you aware of any
`
`16 obligation -- excuse me, do you know if
`
`17 Charles Goodis is obligated to pay any
`
`18
`
`19
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`20
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`21
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`22
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`23
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`judgment that is incurred in this lawsuit
`
`on behalf of US Endo?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Not that I'm aware of.
`
`Do you know Neill Luebke?
`
`Yes,
`
`I know Neill Luebke.
`
`When did you first come to know
`
`24 Neill Luebke?
`
`25
`
`A.
`
`Around -- somewhere around
`
`VERITEXT REPORTING COMPANY
`www.veritext.com
`516-608-2400
`212-267-6868
`Case 2:14-cv-00196-JRG-DHI Document 156-1 Filed 12/12/14 Page 67 of 74 PageID #:
` 5173

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