CONFIDENTIAL
`
`Page 1
`
`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
`____________________________
`
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`_____________________________
`
`BAZOOKA-FARMSTAR, LLC,
`
`Petitioner,
`
`v.
`
`NUHN INDUSTRIES LTD.,
`
`Patent Owner.
`
`_______________________________________
`
`Case IPR2023-01161
`
`U.S. Patent No. 11,358,425
`
`_______________________________________
`
`CONFIDENTIAL VIDEO-RECORDED REMOTE ZOOM
`
` VIDEOCONFERENCE DEPOSITION OF DOUGLAS PRAIRIE
`
`Taken on Tuesday, June 25, 2024
`
`Scheduled for 9:00 a.m. EDT
`
`REPORTED BY: DANA S. ANDERSON-LINNELL
`
`Job No.: MW 6753765
`
`www.veritext.com
`
`888-391-3376
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Exhibit 1095
`Bazooka v. Nuhn - IPR2024-00098
`Page 1 of 364
`
`
`
`Page 1
`
`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
`____________________________
`
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`_____________________________
`
`BAZOOKA-FARMSTAR, LLC,
`
`Petitioner,
`
`v.
`
`NUHN INDUSTRIES LTD.,
`
`Patent Owner.
`
`_______________________________________
`
`Case IPR2023-01161
`
`U.S. Patent No. 11,358,425
`
`_______________________________________
`
`CONFIDENTIAL VIDEO-RECORDED REMOTE ZOOM
`
` VIDEOCONFERENCE DEPOSITION OF DOUGLAS PRAIRIE
`
`Taken on Tuesday, June 25, 2024
`
`Scheduled for 9:00 a.m. EDT
`
`REPORTED BY: DANA S. ANDERSON-LINNELL
`
`Job No.: MW 6753765
`
`www.veritext.com
`
`888-391-3376
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Exhibit 1095
`Bazooka v. Nuhn - IPR2024-00098
`Page 1 of 364
`
`
`
`CONFIDENTIAL
`
`Page 2
`
`CONFIDENTIAL VIDEO-RECORDED REMOTE ZOOM
`
`VIDEOCONFERENCE DEPOSITION OF DOUGLAS PRAIRIE taken
`
`on Tuesday, June 25, 2024, commencing at 9:02 a.m.
`
`EDT, via a REMOTE COUNSEL ZOOM PROCEEDING, before
`
`Dana S. Anderson-Linnell, a Stenographic Shorthand
`
`Reporter and Notary Public of and for the State of
`
`Minnesota.
`
` ***************
`
` APPEARANCES
`
`On Behalf of Petitioner Bazooka-Farmstar, LLC:
`
`Thomas J. Leach, Esquire
`
`MERCHANT & GOULD, P.C.
`
`150 South Fifth Street, Suite 2200
`
`Minneapolis MN 55402
`
`Email: TLeach@merchantgould.com
`
`(Appearances continued on next page.)
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`www.veritext.com
`
`888-391-3376
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Exhibit 1095
`Bazooka v. Nuhn - IPR2024-00098
`Page 2 of 364
`
`
`
`CONFIDENTIAL
`
`Page 3
`
`APPEARANCES (continued):
`
`On Behalf of Patent Owner Nuhn Industries Ltd. and
`
`the Witness:
`
`James B. Luchsinger, Esquire
`
`HARNESS, DICKEY & PIERCE, P.L.C.
`
`5445 Corporate Drive, Suite 200
`
`Troy, MI 48098
`
`Email: bluchsinger@harnessip.com
`
`ALSO PRESENT: Kyle Peterson, videographer
`
`NOTE: The original transcript will be filed with the
`
`Merchant and Gould Law Firm, pursuant to the
`
`applicable Rules of Civil Procedure.
`
`1
`
`2 3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`www.veritext.com
`
`888-391-3376
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Exhibit 1095
`Bazooka v. Nuhn - IPR2024-00098
`Page 3 of 364
`
`
`
`CONFIDENTIAL
`
`Page 4
`
`INDEX PAGE
`
`WITNESS: DOUGLAS PRAIRIE
`
`EXAMINATION BY:
`
`Mr. Leach 10
`
`INSTRUCTIONS NOT TO ANSWER: (None.)
`
`PRODUCTION REQUESTS: (None.)
`
`INDEX OF MARKED EXHIBITS:
`
`Exhibit 1130 - New Oxford American
`
`Dictionary 3rd Edition excerpt 119
`
`Exhibit 1132 - Wayback Machine Definition
`
`of Slurry 120
`
`INDEX OF PREVIOUSLY MARKED EXHIBITS:
`
`Exhibit 1001 - United States Patent
`
`No. 11,358,425 (Nuhn) 22
`
`1
`
`2 3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6 7
`
`8 9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`www.veritext.com
`
`888-391-3376
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Exhibit 1095
`Bazooka v. Nuhn - IPR2024-00098
`Page 4 of 364
`
`
`
`CONFIDENTIAL
`
`Page 5
`
`INDEX OF PREVIOUSLY MARKED EXHIBITS PAGE
`
`(continued):
`
`Exhibit 1005 - United States Patent
`
`Application Publication No. US 2012/0185129 236
`
`Exhibit 1012 - Schröer Environment and Water
`
`Technology Light Amphibious Boat/Vehicle,
`
`Bazooka v. Nuhn - IPR2023-01161 255
`
`Exhibit 1014 - United States Patent
`
`Application Number U.S. 2014/0112093 89
`
`Exhibit 1019 - Western Producer article,
`
`Float your boat in a slurry moat, Bazooka v.
`
`Nuhn - IPR2023-01161 220
`
`Exhibit 1029 - United States Patent
`
`No. 8,944,758 (Nuhn) 148
`
`Exhibit 1040 - NRAES (1998) NRAES-89
`
`Liquid Manure Application Systems D 199
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3 4
`
`5
`
`6 7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`www.veritext.com
`
`888-391-3376
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Exhibit 1095
`Bazooka v. Nuhn - IPR2024-00098
`Page 5 of 364
`
`
`
`CONFIDENTIAL
`
`Page 6
`
`INDEX OF PREVIOUSLY MARKED EXHIBITS PAGE
`
`(continued):
`
`Exhibit 1040-2 - NRAES (1998) NRAES-89
`
`Liquid Manure Application Systems 199
`
`Exhibit 1066 - AWMFH - Chapter 12 (Waste
`
`Management Equipment) 187
`
`Exhibit 1074 - Lagoon Crawler Customer
`
`Article, NUHN15000007687 213
`
`Exhibit 1081 - Complete copy of the UD Umwelt
`
`Amphi-King marketing video 93
`
`Exhibit 1082 - Certified Translation of Video 113
`
`Exhibit 1088 - Manure-Manager
`
`January/February 2011 274
`
`Exhibit 2029 - Declaration of Douglas S.
`
`Prairie in Support of Patent Owner’s Response 15
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3 4
`
`5
`
`6 7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`www.veritext.com
`
`888-391-3376
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Exhibit 1095
`Bazooka v. Nuhn - IPR2024-00098
`Page 6 of 364
`
`
`
`CONFIDENTIAL
`
`Page 7
`
`INDEX OF PREVIOUSLY MARKED EXHIBITS PAGE
`
`(continued):
`
`Exhibit 2030 - Natural crusting of
`
`slurry storage as an abatement measure 132
`
`Exhibit 2031 - Wolverine Agitation Boat -
`
`Bazooka Farmstar, Bazooka v. Nuhn -
`
`IPR2023-01161 251
`
`(Original exhibits attached to original transcript;
`
`copies to counsel as requested. Previously marked
`
`exhibits referenced attached.)
`
`REPORTER'S NOTE: All quotations from exhibits are
`
`reflected in the manner in which they were read into
`
`the record and do not necessarily indicate an exact
`
`quote from the document.
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3 4
`
`5
`
`6 7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`www.veritext.com
`
`888-391-3376
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Exhibit 1095
`Bazooka v. Nuhn - IPR2024-00098
`Page 7 of 364
`
`
`
`CONFIDENTIAL
`
`Page 8
`
` THE COURT REPORTER: Do all counsel
`
` stipulate that I can swear in the witness
`
` remotely over the Zoom videoconference?
`
` MR. LEACH: Yes.
`
` MR. LUCHSINGER: Yes, we do.
`
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Good morning. We
`
` are going on the record. The time is 9:02 a.m.
`
` Today's date is June 25th, 2024. Please note
`
` that this deposition is being conducted
`
` virtually. Quality of recording depends on the
`
` quality of camera and Internet connection of
`
` participants. What is seen from the witness
`
` and heard on screen is what will be recorded.
`
` Audio and video recording will continue to take
`
` place unless all parties agree to go off the
`
` record.
`
` This is Media Unit 1 of the
`
` video-recorded deposition of Douglas Prairie,
`
` taken by counsel for the petitioner in the
`
` matter of Bazooka-Farmstar, LLC versus Nuhn
`
` Industries Ltd., filed in the United States
`
` Patent and Trademark Office, Case Number
`
` IPR2023-01161. This deposition is being
`
` conducted remotely using virtual technology.
`
` My name is Kyle Peterson,
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`www.veritext.com
`
`888-391-3376
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Exhibit 1095
`Bazooka v. Nuhn - IPR2024-00098
`Page 8 of 364
`
`
`
`CONFIDENTIAL
`
`Page 9
`
` representing Veritext Legal Solutions. I'm the
`
` videographer. The court reporter is
`
` Dana Anderson from the firm Veritext Legal
`
` Solutions. I am not authorized to administer
`
` an oath, I am not related to any party in this
`
` action, nor am I financially interested in the
`
` outcome.
`
` If there are any objections to
`
` proceeding, please state them at the time of
`
` your appearance.
`
` MR. LEACH: Tom Leach with Merchant
`
` and Gould for Petitioner Bazooka-Farmstar.
`
` MR. LUCHSINGER: James Bradley
`
` Luchsinger. I'm an attorney with the Harness
`
` IP law firm, who represent Patent Owner Nuhn
`
` Industries Limited.
`
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: And would the
`
` reporter please swear in the witness.
`
` And, Counsel, you may proceed.
`
` DOUGLAS PRAIRIE,
`
` called as a witness, being first duly sworn,
`
` was examined and testified as follows:
`
` MR. LEACH: Great.
`
` EXAMINATION
`
` BY MR. LEACH:
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`www.veritext.com
`
`888-391-3376
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Exhibit 1095
`Bazooka v. Nuhn - IPR2024-00098
`Page 9 of 364
`
`
`
`CONFIDENTIAL
`
`Page 10
`
` Q. Thank you, Mr. Prairie. Can you please
`
` state your name, address and work address for
`
` the record, please?
`
` A. My full name is Douglas Samuel Prairie.
`
` I live in Brookings, South Dakota. Residential
`
` street address is 532 Copper Mountain Circle,
`
` Brookings, South Dakota 57006. My primary
`
` employer is South Dakota State University. It
`
` resides in Brookings, South Dakota as well.
`
` Q. And are you represented by counsel here
`
` today?
`
` A. Yes. Brad is representing and work with
`
` relative to Harness IP.
`
` Q. And so they're your lawyers in this
`
` proceeding?
`
` A. I am consulting with them on this case,
`
` so they represent me. I guess they are the
`
` legal firm that I'm working through on this
`
` case.
`
` Q. Is there any reason you can't give fair
`
` and accurate testimony today?
`
` A. No, there's not.
`
` Q. So I want to go over just a few
`
` deposition rules. First, have you ever been
`
` deposed before? I think I read in your report
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`www.veritext.com
`
`888-391-3376
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Exhibit 1095
`Bazooka v. Nuhn - IPR2024-00098
`Page 10 of 364
`
`
`
`CONFIDENTIAL
`
`Page 11
`
` or your CV that you have.
`
` A. Yes, I have.
`
` Q. How many times?
`
` A. It was one case. There was multiple
`
` depositions in that case. I don't remember the
`
` number of times. It was more than one.
`
` Q. Okay. Well, in this depo if I -- if you
`
` don't understand a question, please ask me to
`
` rephrase it or clarify, okay?
`
` A. Okay.
`
` Q. And if you answer a question, I'll
`
` assume you understood the question, is that
`
` fair?
`
` A. Fair.
`
` Q. And for the court reporter we need to
`
` give verbal responses. So an uh-huh or a shake
`
` of the head, that doesn't help. We need to
`
` have, like, yes, no or a verbal answer so the
`
` court reporter can get it down, okay?
`
` A. Okay.
`
` Q. And I won't talk over you, and I ask
`
` that you don't talk over me, and that way the
`
` court reporter can get down everything that's
`
` said, because it's hard for her to do that when
`
` we're talking over each other, okay?
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`www.veritext.com
`
`888-391-3376
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Exhibit 1095
`Bazooka v. Nuhn - IPR2024-00098
`Page 11 of 364
`
`
`
`CONFIDENTIAL
`
`Page 12
`
` A. Okay.
`
` Q. And you understand that your testimony
`
` here today is under oath, and it has the same
`
` force and effect as if you were in a courtroom
`
` in front of a judge or jury, correct?
`
` A. I do understand that.
`
` Q. And you understand that your counsel may
`
` object from time to time, but unless he
`
` instructs you not to answer, you have to answer
`
` the question asked, correct?
`
` A. I understand that.
`
` Q. I want to go through some vocabulary
`
` really quick just so we're straight here on the
`
` record. So the patent owner in this matter is
`
` Nuhn Industries Ltd., correct?
`
` A. Specifically which patent are you
`
` referring to?
`
` Q. The '425 patent.
`
` A. Yes. That's Nuhn's patent.
`
` Q. And that's the patent at issue in this
`
` IPR, correct?
`
` A. That is correct.
`
` Q. Okay. And so sometimes I'll refer to
`
` Nuhn Industries as Nuhn, patent owner or Nuhn
`
` Industries, and you'll understand that I'm
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`www.veritext.com
`
`888-391-3376
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Exhibit 1095
`Bazooka v. Nuhn - IPR2024-00098
`Page 12 of 364
`
`
`
`CONFIDENTIAL
`
`Page 13
`
` referring to the patent owner in this matter,
`
` correct?
`
` A. Yes. I will associate Nuhn with the
`
` patent owner.
`
` Q. Okay. And the petitioner in this matter
`
` is Bazooka-Farmstar, LLC, and I will refer to
`
` them here sometimes as petitioner, Bazooka or
`
` possibly defendant, and you understand if I use
`
` those terms, that we're talking about the
`
` petitioner in this IPR, Bazooka-Farmstar, LLC,
`
` correct?
`
` A. That's correct. If I need to, I will
`
` clarify.
`
` Q. And the patent at issue in this IPR is
`
` U.S. Patent number 11,358,425, correct?
`
` A. That is correct.
`
` Q. And sometimes I'll refer to that patent
`
` as the '425 patent. Do you understand that?
`
` A. Yes. If you refer to the '425 patent,
`
` I'll correlate the two there.
`
` Q. And sometimes, as you saw in your report
`
` and in the papers, we talk about a person of
`
` ordinary skill in the art. And sometimes
`
` people refer to it as a POSITA, sometimes
`
` people refer to it as a POSA, or they generally
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`www.veritext.com
`
`888-391-3376
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Exhibit 1095
`Bazooka v. Nuhn - IPR2024-00098
`Page 13 of 364
`
`
`
`CONFIDENTIAL
`
`Page 14
`
` just say person of ordinary skill. Do you
`
` understand when I say in this proceeding a
`
` POSITA, a POSA, a person of ordinary skill in
`
` the art or a person of ordinary skill, I'm
`
` talking about a person of ordinary skill in the
`
` art at the time of the invention?
`
` A. Yes. I understand those words are --
`
` mean the same thing --
`
` Q. Okay.
`
` A. -- refer to the same topic.
`
` THE COURT REPORTER: Gentlemen, can
`
` we go off the record for a moment, please?
`
` MR. LEACH: Yes.
`
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are going off
`
` the record.
`
` The time now is 9:10 a.m.
`
` (Off the record 9:10 to 9:13.)
`
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are back on
`
` the record.
`
` The time now is 9:13 a.m.
`
` BY MR. LEACH:
`
` Q. Mr. Prairie, we had a little bit of a
`
` discussion off the record. And you have some
`
` documents in front of you. Can you explain or
`
` tell me what documents you have in front of
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`www.veritext.com
`
`888-391-3376
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Exhibit 1095
`Bazooka v. Nuhn - IPR2024-00098
`Page 14 of 364
`
`
`
`CONFIDENTIAL
`
`Page 15
`
` you?
`
` A. Yes, I can do that. I've got one, the
`
` '425 Nuhn patent that we discussed. I have the
`
` first declaration of mine for this case
`
` dated -- this one is dated -- it's
`
` Exhibit 2004. I have the latest declaration in
`
` this case, Exhibit 2029. And I have
`
` Dr. Winkel's expert declaration, Exhibit 1004.
`
` Q. Thank you. If you can go on Exhibit
`
` Share, I've marked -- or introduced, I should
`
` say, Exhibit 2029. And that's your
`
` declaration. I think it was executed on
`
` April 2nd, 2024. Can you just briefly look
`
` through that and just confirm that that is, in
`
` fact, your declaration, and it's the same
`
` declaration, Exhibit 2029, that you have in
`
` front of you?
`
` A. (Views document.) Just doing a couple
`
` spot-checks. Mr. Leach, that document appears
`
` to be the same as the hard copy that I have
`
` here with me.
`
` Q. Okay. Mr. Prairie, from the perspective
`
` of a POSA around 2012, how was the structure of
`
` a fluid pump for pumping liquid manure
`
` different than a water pump?
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`www.veritext.com
`
`888-391-3376
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Exhibit 1095
`Bazooka v. Nuhn - IPR2024-00098
`Page 15 of 364
`
`
`
`CONFIDENTIAL
`
`Page 16
`
` A. Please state your question again.
`
` Q. Sure. From the perspective of a POSA
`
` around 2012, how was the structure of a fluid
`
` pump for pumping liquid manure different than a
`
` water pump?
`
` A. During that 2012 time period, a pump
`
` that would be able to pump liquid manure would
`
` have to have -- be able to handle a wide
`
` variety of solids, slurry, components that
`
` would be in existence in a -- from an animal
`
` waste facility in a liquid manure lagoon.
`
` During that time period, a water pump would be
`
` different in that, like, a water pump and a
`
` pump that is capable of handling liquid manure
`
` are not the same.
`
` Q. Okay. I understand what you just
`
` provided me was kind of what their capabilities
`
` are, but I'm asking you a little bit different
`
` question. From the perspective of a POSA
`
` around 2012, how was the structure of a fluid
`
` pump for pumping liquid manure different than a
`
` water pump? I want to focus on the difference
`
` in structure.
`
` MR. LUCHSINGER: Objection as to
`
` form, vague, asked and answered.
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`www.veritext.com
`
`888-391-3376
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Exhibit 1095
`Bazooka v. Nuhn - IPR2024-00098
`Page 16 of 364
`
`
`
`CONFIDENTIAL
`
`Page 17
`
` THE WITNESS: Yeah, you changed up
`
` your wording there, I believe, from your first
`
` question.
`
` BY MR. LEACH:
`
` Q. Well, I'll ask it again. From the
`
` perspective of a POSA around 2012, how was the
`
` structure of a fluid pump for pumping liquid
`
` manure different than a water pump?
`
` MR. LUCHSINGER: Same objections.
`
` THE WITNESS: Yeah, specifically I'm
`
` not -- the structure, I was talking about the
`
` capabilities of the pump itself, and the
`
` capabilities would be different.
`
` BY MR. LEACH:
`
` Q. Sure. But can you tell me what the
`
` differences are in terms of structure of a pump
`
` for pumping liquid manure compared to a pump
`
` for pumping water?
`
` MR. LUCHSINGER: Same objections.
`
` THE WITNESS: It has to do with
`
` capabilities.
`
` BY MR. LEACH:
`
` Q. I'm not asking about capabilities,
`
` though. I'm asking about what structural
`
` differences does a pump for pumping liquid
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`www.veritext.com
`
`888-391-3376
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Exhibit 1095
`Bazooka v. Nuhn - IPR2024-00098
`Page 17 of 364
`
`
`
`CONFIDENTIAL
`
`Page 18
`
` manure have versus a pump for pumping water.
`
` Can you name any?
`
` MR. LUCHSINGER: Same objections.
`
` THE WITNESS: Like I said, sir, it
`
` has to do with the capabilities. When pumping
`
` liquid manure, liquid manure is that from an
`
` animal waste facility, an animal -- from an
`
` animal livestock farm. It can contain a wide
`
` variety of materials. And it has to do with
`
` its ability to be tested in that environment
`
` and its capabilities in terms of pumping liquid
`
` manure.
`
` BY MR. LEACH:
`
` Q. Okay. I understand that it's your
`
` opinion that they have different capabilities.
`
` What I'm asking you, though, is a little bit
`
` different question. I'm asking: What are the
`
` differences in structure of a pump that can
`
` pump liquid manure versus a pump that pumps
`
` water?
`
` MR. LUCHSINGER: Same objections.
`
` BY MR. LEACH:
`
` Q. What structural differences are there?
`
` A. I've gaven [sic] you an -- I've given
`
` you the answer. It has to do with be able to
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`www.veritext.com
`
`888-391-3376
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Exhibit 1095
`Bazooka v. Nuhn - IPR2024-00098
`Page 18 of 364
`
`
`
`CONFIDENTIAL
`
`Page 19
`
` test its capabilities in that particular
`
` application.
`
` Q. Can you name one structural difference
`
` between a pump for pumping liquid manure and a
`
` water pump?
`
` A. Again, it has to do with its
`
` capabilities in that particular application.
`
` It needs to be tested in that particular
`
` environment.
`
` Q. Can you name a difference between a pump
`
` that pumps liquid manure and a pump that pumps
`
` water in terms of the pump's structure?
`
` A. The pump has to be capable of
`
` handling -- a liquid manure pump has to be
`
` capable of handling liquid, solids, a slurry
`
` mixture that comes from an animal livestock
`
` waste facility. That is what is from the
`
` capabilities of a liquid manure pump needs to
`
` be capable of doing.
`
` Q. I understand what you keep saying. I
`
` understand what you're answering. What I'm
`
` asking you: From a physical perspective, the
`
` physical structure of a pump, what are the
`
` differences in terms of physical structure
`
` between a pump for pumping liquid manure and a
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`www.veritext.com
`
`888-391-3376
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Exhibit 1095
`Bazooka v. Nuhn - IPR2024-00098
`Page 19 of 364
`
`
`
`CONFIDENTIAL
`
`Page 20
`
` pump that pumps water? What physical
`
` differences, what structural differences are
`
` there between those two types of pumps?
`
` MR. LUCHSINGER: Objection to the
`
` form, vague.
`
` THE WITNESS: I can keep giving you
`
` the answer, Mr. Leach, that I've been giving if
`
` you like.
`
` BY MR. LEACH:
`
` Q. Well, you haven't given me any
`
` structural differences. Can you provide one
`
` structural difference between a pump that pumps
`
` liquid manure and a pump that can pump water?
`
` A. Mr. Leach, I've told you its
`
` capabilities. It's the capabilities of the
`
` pump.
`
` Q. How do you know if it has those
`
` capabilities without looking at the structure?
`
` A. It has to be designed for -- designed
`
` and tested for the application of liquid
`
` manure.
`
` Q. So is your opinion that a liquid manure
`
` pump -- to determine whether it's a -- in fact,
`
` a liquid manure pump, you have to find out what
`
` its intended design was for?
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`www.veritext.com
`
`888-391-3376
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Exhibit 1095
`Bazooka v. Nuhn - IPR2024-00098
`Page 20 of 364
`
`
`
`CONFIDENTIAL
`
`Page 21
`
` A. Yes. In any pump there are -- when it
`
` comes to pumps, there's a wide variety of
`
` pumps. And just saying pump is not a specific
`
` statement, specific enough detail. You need to
`
` know the application, the product that it's
`
` going to be pumping, and then you must design
`
` for that particular application, design and
`
` test for that.
`
` Q. So can you look at a pump and determine
`
` whether it's a liquid manure pump or a pump
`
` capable of pumping liquid manure or simply a
`
` water pump?
`
` MR. LUCHSINGER: Objection as to
`
` form, vague.
`
` THE WITNESS: Like I said, the pump,
`
` would have to be known that it was designed for
`
` liquid manure applications or a particular
`
` application that was being -- and it'd have to
`
` be then tested and verified.
`
` BY MR. LEACH:
`
` Q. So the '425 patent, when it says a pump
`
` for pumping liquid manure, how is someone
`
` supposed to know whether they meet that
`
` limitation or not based on the pump?
`
` MR. LUCHSINGER: Objection as to
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`www.veritext.com
`
`888-391-3376
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Exhibit 1095
`Bazooka v. Nuhn - IPR2024-00098
`Page 21 of 364
`
`
`
`CONFIDENTIAL
`
`Page 22
`
` form, vague.
`
` THE WITNESS: If we reference the
`
` '425 patent, so Exhibit 1001, column 1, page 10
`
` of 16, more specifically in the application of
`
` the technical field of the '425 patent, it
`
` talks about basically it's pumping liquid
`
` manure such as animal manure contained in a
`
` farm lagoon. And so particular to the '425
`
` patent, you would have to know that that pump
`
` is capable, as I said, designed and
`
` particularly tested for an application of
`
` pumping liquid manure from an animal waste
`
` facility, animal -- an animal farm.
`
` BY MR. LEACH:
`
` Q. Okay. I want to go back, though. I'm
`
` trying to understand how someone skilled in the
`
` art would understand whether the pump they have
`
` is a pump for pumping liquid manure or a pump
`
` for pumping water. Tell me what you would look
`
` for to know the difference between those two
`
` pumps in terms of physical properties of the
`
` pump.
`
` MR. LUCHSINGER: Objection as to
`
` form, asked and answered.
`
` THE WITNESS: Within industry there
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`www.veritext.com
`
`888-391-3376
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Exhibit 1095
`Bazooka v. Nuhn - IPR2024-00098
`Page 22 of 364
`
`
`
`CONFIDENTIAL
`
`Page 23
`
` is a wide variety of pumps. The pumps are
`
` designed and marketed for -- design, marketed,
`
` tested for certain applications. And so if the
`
` pump is designed, tested and marketed as a
`
` manure -- a pump that is capable of handling
`
` liquid manure, then from -- based on that, you
`
` could know that it is indeed a pump that is
`
` capable of handling liquid manure.
`
` BY MR. LEACH:
`
` Q. I keep hearing your answer, but I just
`
` want to confirm. You can't name one physical
`
` structural property that a pump for pumping
`
` liquid manure has compared to a pump that pumps
`
` water, is that correct?
`
` MR. LUCHSINGER: Objection as to
`
` form, argumentative.
`
` THE WITNESS: I'm stating that
`
` within industry there are a wide variety of
`
` pumps. How I know that they would work for an
`
` application is that the designer or the company
`
` would design, test, and then ultimately market
`
` that pump for a particular application.
`
` BY MR. LEACH:
`
` Q. And when you say there's a wide variety
`
` of pumps, pumps aren't designed for any
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`www.veritext.com
`
`888-391-3376
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Exhibit 1095
`Bazooka v. Nuhn - IPR2024-00098
`Page 23 of 364
`
`
`
`CONFIDENTIAL
`
`Page 24
`
` specific fluid, right, they're designed for
`
` ranges of fluids, correct?
`
` A. Well, there's hydraulic pumps, there's
`
` air pumps, there's water pumps, there's liquid
`
` manure pumps. There are a wide variety of --
`
` within industry, as I stated, there is a wide
`
` variety of pumps, and they are designed for the
`
` particular product, products plural
`
` potentially, that they are being sold --
`
` designed, marketed and sold into.
`
` Q. I guess what I'm asking is: To your
`
` point, companies provide a range of pumps, and
`
` those pumps can handle a variety of different
`
` liquids or slurries, right?
`
` A. Sometimes. Not always.
`
` Q. And so --
`
` A. There's a wide variety of liquids, gases
`
` that pumps pump.
`
` Q. So I just want to get back and just be
`
` confident here. You don't have any opinion on
`
` what structure is needed to pump -- sorry.
`
` Strike that.
`
` I just want to confirm. You don't have
`
` any opinion as to the structure of a fluid pump
`
` for pumping liquid manure and what's
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`www.veritext.com
`
`888-391-3376
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Exhibit 1095
`Bazooka v. Nuhn - IPR2024-00098
`Page 24 of 364
`
`
`
`CONFIDENTIAL
`
`Page 25
`
` required -- strike that again.
`
` From the perspective of a POSA around
`
` 2012, you don't have any opinion as to what
`
` structure was required of a pump that can pump
`
` liquid manure?
`
` MR. LUCHSINGER: Objection as to
`
` form.
`
` THE WITNESS: I can give you a
`
` similar answer, Mr. Leach, again if you wish.
`
` BY MR. LEACH:
`
` Q. I'm asking, though, about structure, and
`
` you haven't given me anything on structure.
`
` MR. LUCHSINGER: Objection as to
`
` form, argumentative.
`
` THE WITNESS: I've given you
`
` information in regards to -- you've asked about
`
` a very specific application, and I've said is
`
` that for a pump that would pump liquid manure,
`
` I would seek out a component that was designed,
`
` tested and marketed for that particular
`
` application.
`
` BY MR. LEACH:
`
` Q. Sir, are you an expert in pump design?
`
` A. I have worked with pumps in my career.
`
` Q. That's not my question. Are you -- do
`
`www.veritext.com
`
`888-391-3376
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Exhibit 1095
`Bazooka v. Nuhn - IPR2024-00098
`Page 25 of 364
`
`
`
`CONFIDENTIAL
`
`Page 26
`
` you consider yourself an expert in pump design?
`
` MR. LUCHSINGER: Objection as to
`
` form to the extent it calls for a legal
`
` conclusion.
`
` THE WITNESS: I have worked with
`
` pumps throughout my professional career, a wide
`
` variety of different style of pumps throughout
`
` my professional career.
`
` BY MR. LEACH:
`
` Q. Do you consider yourself an expert in
`
` pump design?
`
` A. I have worked with a wide variety of
`
` pumps in various applications throughout my
`
` professional career.
`
` Q. That's not my question. I'm asking if
`
` you consider yourself to be an expert in pump
`
` design?
`
` MR. LUCHSINGER: Objection as to
`
` form, asked and answered.
`
` THE WITNESS: I have worked with a
`
` wide variety of pumps throughout my
`
` professional career and their applications.
`
` BY MR. LEACH:
`
` Q. Are you refusing to answer my question?
`
` MR. LUCHSINGER: Objection to form.
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`www.veritext.com
`
`888-391-3376
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Exhibit 1095
`Bazooka v. Nuhn - IPR2024-00098
`Page 26 of 364
`
`
`
`CONFIDENTIAL
`
`Page 27
`
` He provided an answer, so obviously he's not
`
` refusing.
`
` MR. LEACH: Hey, Brad?
`
` MR. LUCHSINGER: Whether or not you
`
` think --
`
` MR. LEACH: I'm not going to go
`
` through this like we did with Mr. Nuhn.
`
` MR. LUCHSINGER: I don't --
`
` MR. LEACH: You're going to have to
`
` keep your objections to proper objections or
`
` we're going to call the Board.
`
` MR. LUCHSINGER: You're
`
` argumentative in your question. You're saying:
`
` This answer is not good enough for me, so I
`
` want you to change it. That's improper.
`
` BY MR. LEACH:
`
` Q. Okay. Mr. Prairie, yes or no, do you
`
` consider yourself to be an expert in pump
`
` design?
`
` A. I have worked with a wide variety of
`
` pumps in different applications. There is a
`
` wide variety of pumps, so your statement is
`
` very broad. And so there are a wide variety of
`
` pumps. There are different people that design
`
` different style of pumps.
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`www.veritext.com
`
`888-391-3376
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Exhibit 1095
`Bazooka v. Nuhn - IPR2024-00098
`Page 27 of 364
`
`
`
`CONFIDENTIAL
`
`Page 28
`
` Q. Again, from a structural standpoint, can
`
` you name any difference between a pump that can
`
` pump liquid manure from a pump that pumps
`
` water? Can you name one structural difference?
`
` MR. LUCHSINGER: Objection as to
`
` form, asked and answered.
`
` THE WITNESS: A water pump is
`
` designed, tested to pump -- and validated to
`
` pump water. A liquid manure pump is designed,
`
` tested and marketed in the application of
`
` liquid manure pumps. A hydraulic pump would be
`
` designed
Accessing this document will incur an additional charge of $.
After purchase, you can access this document again without charge.
Accept $ Charge
Still Working On It
This document is taking longer than usual to download. This can happen if we need to contact the court directly to obtain the document and their servers are running slowly.
Give it another minute or two to complete, and then try the refresh button.
A few More Minutes ... Still Working
It can take up to 5 minutes for us to download a document if the court servers are running slowly.
Thank you for your continued patience.
This document could not be displayed.
We could not find this document within its docket. Please go back to the docket page and check the link. If that does not work, go back to the docket and refresh it to pull the newest information.
Your account does not support viewing this document.
You need a Paid Account to view this document. Click here to change your account type.
Your account does not support viewing this document.
Set your membership
status to view this document.
With a Docket Alarm membership, you'll
get a whole lot more, including:
- Up-to-date information for this case.
- Email alerts whenever there is an update.
- Full text search for other cases.
- Get email alerts whenever a new case matches your search.
One Moment Please
The filing “” is large (MB) and is being downloaded.
Please refresh this page in a few minutes to see if the filing has been downloaded. The filing will also be emailed to you when the download completes.
Your document is on its way!
If you do not receive the document in five minutes, contact support at support@docketalarm.com.
Sealed Document
We are unable to display this document, it may be under a court ordered seal.
If you have proper credentials to access the file, you may proceed directly to the court's system using your government issued username and password.
Access Government Site
