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`Page 1
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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
` ____________________________
`
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
` _____________________________
`
` BAZOOKA-FARMSTAR, LLC,
`
` Petitioner,
`
` v.
`
` NUHN INDUSTRIES LTD.,
`
` Patent Owner.
`
` _______________________________________
`
` Case IPR2024-00098
`
` U.S. Patent No. 11,541,708
`
` _______________________________________
`
` VIDEO-RECORDED REMOTE ZOOM VIDEOCONFERENCE
`
` DEPOSITION OF DOUGLAS S. PRAIRIE
`
` Taken on Tuesday, October 29, 2024
`
` Scheduled for 8:00 a.m. CDT
`
`REPORTED BY: DANA S. ANDERSON-LINNELL
`
`Job No.: MW 6960929
`
`www.veritext.com
`
`888-391-3376
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Exhibit 1094
`Bazooka v. Nuhn - IPR2024-00098
`Page 1 of 297
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`Page 1
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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
` ____________________________
`
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
` _____________________________
`
` BAZOOKA-FARMSTAR, LLC,
`
` Petitioner,
`
` v.
`
` NUHN INDUSTRIES LTD.,
`
` Patent Owner.
`
` _______________________________________
`
` Case IPR2024-00098
`
` U.S. Patent No. 11,541,708
`
` _______________________________________
`
` VIDEO-RECORDED REMOTE ZOOM VIDEOCONFERENCE
`
` DEPOSITION OF DOUGLAS S. PRAIRIE
`
` Taken on Tuesday, October 29, 2024
`
` Scheduled for 8:00 a.m. CDT
`
`REPORTED BY: DANA S. ANDERSON-LINNELL
`
`Job No.: MW 6960929
`
`www.veritext.com
`
`888-391-3376
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Exhibit 1094
`Bazooka v. Nuhn - IPR2024-00098
`Page 1 of 297
`
`
`
`Page 2
`
`VIDEO-RECORDED REMOTE ZOOM VIDEOCONFERENCE DEPOSITION
`
`OF DOUGLAS S. PRAIRIE taken on Tuesday, October
`
`29, 2024, commencing at 8:06 a.m. CDT, via a REMOTE
`
`COUNSEL ZOOM PROCEEDING, before Dana S.
`
`Anderson-Linnell, a Stenographic Shorthand Reporter
`
`and Notary Public of and for the State of Minnesota.
`
` ***************
`
` APPEARANCES
`
`On Behalf of Petitioner Bazooka-Farmstar, LLC:
`
`Taylor R. Stemler, Esquire
`
`MERCHANT & GOULD, P.C.
`
`150 South Fifth Street, Suite 2200
`
`Minneapolis MN 55402
`
`Email: tstemler@merchantgould.com
`
`(Appearances continued on next page.)
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`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Exhibit 1094
`Bazooka v. Nuhn - IPR2024-00098
`Page 2 of 297
`
`
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`APPEARANCES (continued):
`
`Page 3
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`On Behalf of Patent Owner Nuhn Industries Ltd. and
`
`the Witness:
`
`James "Brad" Luchsinger, Esquire
`
`HARNESS, DICKEY & PIERCE, P.L.C.
`
`5445 Corporate Drive, Suite 200
`
`Troy, MI 48098
`
`Email: bluchsinger@harnessip.com
`
`ALSO PRESENT: Robert Buchman, videographer
`
`NOTE: The original transcript will be filed with the
`
`Merchant and Gould Law Firm, pursuant to the
`
`applicable Rules of Civil Procedure.
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`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Exhibit 1094
`Bazooka v. Nuhn - IPR2024-00098
`Page 3 of 297
`
`
`
`INDEX PAGE
`
`Page 4
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`WITNESS: DOUGLAS S. PRAIRIE
`
`EXAMINATION BY:
`
`Mr. Stemler 8
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`Mr. Luchsinger 227
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`Mr. Stemler 230
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`INSTRUCTIONS NOT TO ANSWER: (None.)
`
`PRODUCTION REQUESTS: (None.)
`
`CONFIDENTIAL PORTIONS: (None.)
`
`INDEX OF MARKED EXHIBITS:
`
`Exhibit 1086 - US Patent 8,256,692 67
`
`Exhibit 1087 - Patent Application Publication
`
`US 2010/0144220 84
`
`Exhibit 1088 - Amendments to the Claims and
`
`Listing of Claims 111
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`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Exhibit 1094
`Bazooka v. Nuhn - IPR2024-00098
`Page 4 of 297
`
`
`
`INDEX OF EXHIBITS (continued): PAGE
`
`Page 5
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`Exhibit 1089 - Pending claims filed by Nuhn
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`Industries in a continuation application
`
`to the '708 patent 115
`
`Exhibit 1090 - Merriam-Webster
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`definition of the word "transverse" 124
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`Exhibit 1091 - Preliminary Amendment 150
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`Exhibit 1092 - Nuhn's Conditional Motion to
`
`Amend the '835 patent claims 171
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`Exhibit 1093 - US Patent 10,118,138 209
`
`INDEX OF PREVIOUSLY MARKED EXHIBITS:
`
`Exhibit 1001 - US Patent 11,541,708 22
`
`Exhibit 1012 - Senwatec vehicle 199
`
`Exhibit 2084 - Patent Application Publication
`
`US 2010/0144220 A 86
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`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Exhibit 1094
`Bazooka v. Nuhn - IPR2024-00098
`Page 5 of 297
`
`
`
`INDEX OF EXHIBITS (continued): PAGE
`
`Page 6
`
`Exhibit 2099 - Declaration of Douglas S.
`
`Prairie in Support of Patent Owner’s Response 19
`
`(Original exhibits attached to original transcript;
`
`copies to counsel as requested. Previously marked
`
`exhibits referenced attached.)
`
`REPORTER'S NOTE: All quotations from exhibits are
`
`reflected in the manner in which they were read into
`
`the record and do not necessarily indicate an exact
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`quote from the document.
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`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Exhibit 1094
`Bazooka v. Nuhn - IPR2024-00098
`Page 6 of 297
`
`
`
`Page 7
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` THE COURT REPORTER: Do all counsel
`
` stipulate that I can swear in the witness
`
` remotely over the Zoom videoconference?
`
` MR. LUCHSINGER: Yes, counsel for
`
` patent owner stipulates to that.
`
` MR. STEMLER: Yes, counsel for the
`
` petitioner does as well.
`
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Good morning. We
`
` are going on the record at 8:06 a.m. on
`
` October 29th, 2024. This is Media Unit Number 1
`
` of the video-recorded deposition of Douglas S.
`
` Prairie being taken by counsel for the petitioner
`
` in the matter of Bazooka-Farmstar, LLC versus
`
` Nuhn Industries Ltd., filed in the U.S. Patent
`
` Trademark Office Patent Trial and Appeal Board,
`
` Case Number IPR2024-00098.
`
` My name is Robert Buchman from the
`
` firm Veritext Legal Solutions, and I'm the
`
` videographer. The court reporter is Dana
`
` Anderson-Linnell from the firm Veritext Legal
`
` Solutions.
`
` This deposition is being held remotely
`
` via Zoom.
`
` Will the attorneys please identify
`
` themselves and state whom they represent for the
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`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Exhibit 1094
`Bazooka v. Nuhn - IPR2024-00098
`Page 7 of 297
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` record.
`
` MR. STEMLER: Yes. This is Taylor
`
` Stemler, counsel for petitioner,
`
` Bazooka-Farmstar, LLC, from the law firm
`
` Merchant and Gould, P.C.
`
` MR. LUCHSINGER: This is James
`
` Bradley Luchsinger. I'm an attorney with the
`
` Harness IP law firm. We represent the patent
`
` owner in this IPO, Nuhn Industries Limited.
`
` THE COURT REPORTER: Will the court
`
` reporter please swear in the witness.
`
` DOUGLAS S. PRAIRIE,
`
` called as a witness, being first duly sworn,
`
` was examined and testified as follows:
`
` EXAMINATION
`
` BY MR. STEMLER:
`
` Q. Good morning, Mr. Prairie. How are you
`
` doing today?
`
` A. Morning, Taylor.
`
` Q. How are you this morning?
`
` A. Doing good. Doing good.
`
` Q. Good. Well, thank you for joining us.
`
` To start out, I know my colleague, Tom Leach,
`
` has deposed you before in one of the related
`
` IPR matters. Have you ever been deposed before
`
`www.veritext.com
`
`888-391-3376
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Exhibit 1094
`Bazooka v. Nuhn - IPR2024-00098
`Page 8 of 297
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` that?
`
` A. Yes, I have.
`
` Q. How many times?
`
` A. I don't remember the exact count. Maybe
`
` three or four.
`
` Q. Were they patent cases?
`
` A. I think all of them were, yes.
`
` Q. Okay. Do you understand that your
`
` testimony today is under oath?
`
` A. I do.
`
` Q. And that that has the same force and
`
` effect as if you were in a courtroom in front
`
` of a judge or a jury?
`
` A. I do.
`
` Q. Now, throughout the course of the day
`
` I'm going to attempt to make my questions as
`
` clear as possible. If you don't understand,
`
` please go ahead and ask me to repeat or
`
` rephrase the question, and I will do my best to
`
` do so.
`
` A. Okay.
`
` Q. Otherwise, if you answer the question,
`
` everyone will assume that you've understood the
`
` question, is that clear?
`
` A. That is clear.
`
`www.veritext.com
`
`888-391-3376
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Exhibit 1094
`Bazooka v. Nuhn - IPR2024-00098
`Page 9 of 297
`
`
`
`Page 10
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` Q. Also, as I'm sure you've noticed, the
`
` testimony today is being recorded by a court
`
` reporter. Because of that, it's important for
`
` the record that you and I speak audibly and,
`
` you know, don't communicate via headshakes or
`
` uh-huhs or that kind of thing. Does that make
`
` sense?
`
` A. Yes, it does.
`
` Q. Okay. On that same topic, it's also
`
` important that you and I take turns and, you
`
` know, do our best not to speak over each other,
`
` is that clear?
`
` A. Yes, it is.
`
` Q. Now, Mr. Prairie, is there any reason
`
` that you can't give fair and accurate testimony
`
` today?
`
` A. No, there is not.
`
` Q. What did you do to prep for today's
`
` deposition?
`
` A. Brad and I -- I guess, how far back do
`
` you want to go, just, like, in the last week or
`
` so, or what do you mean? Like, how far --
`
` Q. I guess as far back as there were
`
` preparation efforts for it.
`
` A. I've worked with Brad, legal firm and
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`888-391-3376
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Exhibit 1094
`Bazooka v. Nuhn - IPR2024-00098
`Page 10 of 297
`
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` Nuhn. Ian Nuhn had some conversations over the
`
` last year-plus in regards to Zoom calls,
`
` in-person meetings, reading patent documents,
`
` reading industry reference documents and
`
` ultimately submitting declarations. And then
`
` the last week of reviewing those declarations
`
` to prep for the discussions today.
`
` Q. You mentioned that you met with Brad.
`
` Did you meet with any other counsel in
`
` preparation for this deposition?
`
` A. Yes. There was Scott Yackey. I can't
`
` remember his last name. Scott at the time.
`
` But yeah, there's another attorney that works
`
` with Brad that I met with as well over Zoom.
`
` Q. Was Scott the only other attorney?
`
` A. No. I think there was a couple other
`
` support staff throughout the last year. I
`
` don't remember their names. They were -- Brad
`
` and Scott were the primary -- my primary
`
` contacts. There was a couple other staff that
`
` were focused on certain parts that came in
`
` conversations throughout at some point in the
`
` declarations, but I don't remember their names.
`
` Q. Did you travel to Michigan to meet with
`
` Brad?
`
`www.veritext.com
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`888-391-3376
`
`Exhibit 1094
`Bazooka v. Nuhn - IPR2024-00098
`Page 11 of 297
`
`
`
`Page 12
`
` A. The only time I traveled to Michigan was
`
` during my last deposition. I traveled a day or
`
` two beforehand for some discussions and prep
`
` prior to the in-person -- I guess it was in
`
` person with Brad, but it was remote for
`
` everyone else.
`
` Q. Where are you located today?
`
` A. I am in my residence in Brookings, South
`
` Dakota.
`
` Q. How long would you say you met with
`
` Brad?
`
` A. Say that again, Mr. Stemler.
`
` Q. How long did you meet with Brad and
`
` Mr. Yackey to prepare for today's deposition?
`
` A. Like, over the course of the last year,
`
` or just in the last couple days?
`
` Q. I apologize. Just in the last couple
`
` days.
`
` A. Last week Brad and I had a couple Zoom
`
` calls, and then just some emails back and forth
`
` over a few questions.
`
` Q. How long were the Zoom calls?
`
` A. I don't know. They were in the two to
`
` three-hour range each.
`
` Q. And were there two or more than that?
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`888-391-3376
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Exhibit 1094
`Bazooka v. Nuhn - IPR2024-00098
`Page 12 of 297
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` A. We did one on Thursday of last week and
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` one on Friday.
`
` Q. Did you review any documents while you
`
` were meeting with counsel?
`
` A. Yeah. We reviewed the key documents at
`
` hand, declaration, the '708 patent and then
`
` Mr. Winkel's declaration as well.
`
` THE COURT REPORTER: I'm sorry.
`
` Counsel, can we go off the record for
`
` 30 seconds?
`
` MR. STEMLER: We can.
`
` MR. LUCHSINGER: Yep.
`
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are going off
`
` the record.
`
` The time now is 8:14 a.m.
`
` (Off the record 8:14 to 8:17.)
`
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are going back
`
` on the record.
`
` The time now is 8:17 a.m.
`
` BY MR. STEMLER:
`
` Q. Welcome back, Mr. Prairie.
`
` A. Hello again.
`
` Q. Before we broke, you mentioned that you
`
` reviewed some of the key documents in
`
` preparation for today's deposition. Could you
`
`www.veritext.com
`
`888-391-3376
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Exhibit 1094
`Bazooka v. Nuhn - IPR2024-00098
`Page 13 of 297
`
`
`
`Page 14
`
` please reiterate what those key documents were?
`
` A. Specifically they are my declarations
`
` for the '708 patent. And that's the Nuhn
`
` '708 patent. Those specifically are
`
` Exhibits 2099, Exhibits 2004, and the patent
`
` itself is Exhibit 1001. There was a few others
`
` that I reviewed, but those are the key ones.
`
` Q. Do you remember what those few others
`
` that you reviewed were?
`
` A. They were references of those doc -- of
`
` those exhibits.
`
` Q. Documents cited in those exhibits?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Do you remember which documents that
`
` were cited in those exhibits you reviewed?
`
` A. I just want to make sure I -- I tried to
`
` look through a lot of them and -- I just looked
`
` through the listing. I don't remember
`
` specifically. But I just wanted to make sure I
`
` was -- kind of refresh myself on the exhibits
`
` that were referenced in my declarations that I
`
` was familiar with in case they were referenced
`
` in today's conversation.
`
` Q. You mentioned you reviewed the
`
` '708 patent. Have you read the '708 patent?
`
`1
`
`2
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`Exhibit 1094
`Bazooka v. Nuhn - IPR2024-00098
`Page 14 of 297
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` A. Yeah, I've read it multiple times.
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` Q. How many times would you say?
`
` A. I cannot tell you, Taylor, how many
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` times I've read it.
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` Q. Do you have an estimate? I mean, is it
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` more than two times?
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` MR. LUCHSINGER: Objection as to
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` form.
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` THE WITNESS: I've read it multiple
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` times over the last year. I cannot honestly
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` tell you as to how many times I've read it.
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` BY MR. STEMLER:
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` Q. But it's more than once?
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` A. As I've said, I've read it multiple
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` times over the last year-plus. I cannot tell
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` you how many times I've read it.
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` Q. When was the last time you read it?
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` A. I just looked at it again last night,
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` read through it.
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` Q. Do you have any materials in front of
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` you there today?
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` A. I do. I have the '708 patent printed
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` out. I have Exhibit Number 2004, which was my
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` early declaration of the 7008 [sic], and then
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` Exhibit 2099, which is the most recent
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`Exhibit 1094
`Bazooka v. Nuhn - IPR2024-00098
`Page 15 of 297
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`Page 16
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` declaration, the 7008.
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` Q. Have you written --
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` A. I'm sorry. '708 patent. Not 7000,
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` '708.
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` Q. Thank you. Have you written any notes
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` on any of those documents?
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` A. I have not. They are clean copies.
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` Q. Do you have any notes there in front of
`
` you today?
`
` A. I do not.
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` Q. Did you take any notes during your
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` meetings with counsel over the past week?
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` A. Yeah, I've taken some notes for -- just
`
` in conversations of areas of discussion that --
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` to kind of read up on and study up on just to
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` refresh myself.
`
` Q. What areas of discussion?
`
` A. I don't know --
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` MR. LUCHSINGER: I'm just gonna
`
` caution the witness not to discuss in great
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` detail, you know, our conversations regarding
`
` preparing for the deposition because I would
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` consider that work product. But I'm fine with,
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` you know, testimony discussing just the
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` high-level topics.
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`Veritext Legal Solutions
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`Exhibit 1094
`Bazooka v. Nuhn - IPR2024-00098
`Page 16 of 297
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`Page 17
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` THE WITNESS: In prep for the
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` deposition today, Brad, we had conversations.
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` We, went through some -- Brad refreshed me on
`
` some of the legal standings of the case itself.
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` So he kind of gave me an update on what has
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` transpired since my last deposition, just kind
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` of some notes there. And like I said, I don't
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` remember all the details. It was just some
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` highlights that I had that -- in preparation
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` for today of areas to place some emphasis on
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` reading through and just some legal
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` interpretation, make sure I understood things
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` correctly from a legal standpoint.
`
` BY MR. STEMLER:
`
` Q. What do you understand has transpired
`
` since the last deposition?
`
` A. I don't recall the details. Ultimately,
`
` the last deposition was on the '425 patent.
`
` And this is the '708. So we didn't really go
`
` into detail on the '425 side. It was more --
`
` kind of more presently where the '708 stands.
`
` Q. Have you read the institution decision
`
` on the '708 patent?
`
` A. I can't recall if I have read some
`
` institution. I believe I've read on this one,
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`Veritext Legal Solutions
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`Exhibit 1094
`Bazooka v. Nuhn - IPR2024-00098
`Page 17 of 297
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`Page 18
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` but honestly can't tell you with certainty if
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` I've -- I don't believe I -- I haven't read it
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` recently here.
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` Q. Other than counsel for Nuhn, you know,
`
` Brad and Scott, who you mentioned, did you
`
` speak with anybody else about today's
`
` deposition?
`
` A. No. The -- Brad is my primary contact
`
` in regards to the case, and I have not spoken
`
` to anyone outside his legal firm in regards to
`
` this case.
`
` Q. Have you spoken with Ian Nuhn?
`
` A. Not recently. There was a conversation
`
` earlier this year with Ian at some point just
`
` to get background about the equipment and its
`
` history and the company itself, but not -- no
`
` conversations as of recently.
`
` Q. Have you spoken with Dennis Nuhn?
`
` A. I don't believe I've ever spoken with
`
` Dennis Nuhn.
`
` Q. I'm going to introduce an exhibit. It's
`
` Exhibit 2099.
`
` MR. STEMLER: I see that the host
`
` for -- apologies. Can we go off the record
`
` briefly?
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`Veritext Legal Solutions
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`Exhibit 1094
`Bazooka v. Nuhn - IPR2024-00098
`Page 18 of 297
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` MR. LUCHSINGER: Yes.
`
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are going off
`
` the record.
`
` The time now is 8:26 a.m.
`
` (Off the record 8:26 to 8:26.)
`
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are going back
`
` on the record.
`
` The time now is 8:26 a.m.
`
` BY MR. STEMLER:
`
` Q. Mr. Prairie, I've introduced what has
`
` been marked as Exhibit 2099 in this proceeding.
`
` All right. This document should also be
`
` available on Exhibit Share, but I'm sharing it
`
` on my screen here. Do you see this document?
`
` A. (Views document.) Yes, I see it in --
`
` on the screen and the Marked Exhibits.
`
` Q. Do you recognize this document?
`
` A. Yes. This is my declaration for the
`
` '708 patent.
`
` Q. Did you draft this declaration?
`
` A. Yes, I did.
`
` Q. How much time in total would you say you
`
` spent working on this declaration?
`
` A. I don't recall the total number of
`
` hours.
`
`www.veritext.com
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`888-391-3376
`
`Exhibit 1094
`Bazooka v. Nuhn - IPR2024-00098
`Page 19 of 297
`
`
`
`Page 20
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` Q. Do you have an estimate?
`
` A. No, I don't have an estimate for you at
`
` this time.
`
` Q. Would you say it was more than 50 hours?
`
` MR. LUCHSINGER: Objection as to
`
` form.
`
` THE WITNESS: As I've stated, I
`
` don't know -- I don't have a count on the
`
` number of hours that I've worked on this
`
` declaration.
`
` BY MR. STEMLER:
`
` Q. Do you know how much you've billed in
`
` this matter?
`
` A. I don't recall those hours at this point
`
` in time.
`
` Q. Do you have an estimate for the number
`
` of fees you've billed in this matter?
`
` A. No, I cannot provide you a number at
`
` this point in time.
`
` Q. Have you worked with anyone other than
`
` Nuhn's counsel on this report?
`
` A. No, I have not.
`
` Q. Do you have any staff that helped you
`
` prepare it?
`
` A. No. I'm an individual, and no staff
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`Veritext Legal Solutions
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`Exhibit 1094
`Bazooka v. Nuhn - IPR2024-00098
`Page 20 of 297
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`Page 21
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` that work for me in regards to this.
`
` Q. Who wrote the first draft of this
`
` report?
`
` MR. LUCHSINGER: Objection as to
`
` form.
`
` THE WITNESS: I wrote the first
`
` draft. I worked on the draft, edited the
`
` draft, approved the draft -- or approved the
`
` final version.
`
` BY MR. STEMLER:
`
` Q. Did you ever send it to Nuhn's counsel
`
` before you signed it?
`
` A. Nuhn's counsel was heavily involved.
`
` There's heavy legal stuff, content in this
`
` document. And they provided guidance on the
`
` legal terms, conditions. It's a legal case.
`
` So the legal firm -- Nuhn's legal case [sic]
`
` provided input and feedback in regards to the
`
` declaration.
`
` Q. Did Nuhn's counsel make any revisions to
`
` this document?
`
` A. Nuhn's legal firm made markups and edits
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` that I reviewed and ultimately approved.
`
` Q. How many rounds of revisions were made
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` during the course of drafting this document?
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`Veritext Legal Solutions
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`Exhibit 1094
`Bazooka v. Nuhn - IPR2024-00098
`Page 21 of 297
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`
`Page 22
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` A. I don't recall. At times it was a live
`
` working document, so they weren't often. You
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` know, it's -- it was a joint working document.
`
` So to say that there was certain revisions, it
`
` was a live document at times with live editing
`
` and collaboration.
`
` Q. When did you begin preparing this
`
` document?
`
` A. The '708 and '425, they're similar
`
` content. I started working on this case
`
` sometime last year, mid to late last year, I
`
` believe. I can -- I don't remember the exact
`
` timing.
`
` Q. But you didn't start preparing this
`
` document mid to late last year, did you?
`
` A. No. There was certain material that was
`
` started late last -- mid to late last year that
`
` ultimately made its way into here. There's
`
` similarities of the '708 and '425 patents. So
`
` there's some content from the '425 that was
`
` merged over into the '708 declaration.
`
` Q. All right. I'm going to introduce
`
` another previously marked document. This will
`
` be Exhibit 1001. Mr. Prairie, I'm sharing on
`
` my screen and I've introduced into Exhibit
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`Veritext Legal Solutions
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`Exhibit 1094
`Bazooka v. Nuhn - IPR2024-00098
`Page 22 of 297
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`Page 23
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` Share this document that has been marked as
`
` Exhibit 1001 in this proceeding.
`
` Do you see this document?
`
` A. (Views document.) Yes, I see
`
` Exhibit 1001, which is the '708 patent, on the
`
` screen, and I have it on my end in the document
`
` share as well.
`
` Q. Great. So you mentioned that you've
`
` read this document before?
`
` A. Yes, I have read through it multiple
`
` times.
`
` Q. I'm going to refer to this document as
`
` the '708 patent during our discussion today.
`
` Does that make sense?
`
` A. Yes, it does.
`
` Q. I'm scrolling to the end of the document
`
` specifically to the page that lists claim 17.
`
` Could you please read for me the third element
`
` of claim 17 that begins with, "A floatable
`
` vehicle body..."?
`
` A. So just to confirm, you're referring to
`
` claim 17 on column 9?
`
` Q. That's correct.
`
` A. Starting on line 50?
`
` Q. That's correct.
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`888-391-3376
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Exhibit 1094
`Bazooka v. Nuhn - IPR2024-00098
`Page 23 of 297
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`Page 24
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` A. Okay. "A floatable vehicle body
`
` comprising a first buoyant element situated
`
` between the first front wheel and the first
`
` rear wheel and a second buoyant element between
`
` the second front wheel and the second rear
`
` wheel."
`
` Q. Thank you. Do you have an understanding
`
` of what the word "between" means as it's
`
` written in that element?
`
` A. Yes, I do.
`
` Q. What is it?
`
` A. It's the space between the first front
`
` wheel on the right-hand side of a vehicle as
`
` it's going forward and the -- so that space
`
` between there and the rear wheel on the very
`
` same side, the right side of the vehicle, so
`
` that space between the front wheel and the rear
`
` wheel on the same side of the vehicle.
`
` Q. Can you describe what specifically you
`
` understand the word "between" means without
`
` using the word "between" in your definition?
`
` MR. LUCHSINGER: Objection as to
`
` form.
`
` THE WITNESS: I guess it's the --
`
` I'm trying to think of another word for
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`Veritext Legal Solutions
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`Exhibit 1094
`Bazooka v. Nuhn - IPR2024-00098
`Page 24 of 297
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`Page 25
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` "between." It's the -- I mean, graphically it
`
` would ultimately be the -- it says "between."
`
` It's the -- it's a space. It's a gap. I can't
`
` think of another word alternate to "between" at
`
` this point in time that I would deem as
`
` accurate.
`
` BY MR. STEMLER:
`
` Q. I'm gonna scroll to claim 21. That's on
`
` column 10. Could you please read the second
`
` element of claim 21 beginning on line 28?
`
` A. So line start with, "With a
`
` ground-engaging..." is that the line you want
`
` me to begin with?
`
` Q. That's correct, yes.
`
` A. This is from column 10 of the
`
` '708 patent and starting about line 27, 28, "A
`
` ground-engaging propulsion structure comprising
`
` a first front wheel, a second front wheel, a
`
` first rear wheel, and a second rear wheel,
`
` wherein the first front wheel and the first
`
` rear wheel are on the first side of the vehicle
`
` body, and the second front wheel and the second
`
` rear wheel are on the second side of the
`
` vehicle body, and wherein the first buoyant
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` element is between the first front wheel and
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`888-391-3376
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Exhibit 1094
`Bazooka v. Nuhn - IPR2024-00098
`Page 25 of 297
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`
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`Page 26
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` the first rear wheel, and the second buoyant
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` element is in between the second front wheel
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` and the second rear wheel."
`
` Q. Thank you. Is your understanding of the
`
` meaning of the term "between" in claim 17 the
`
` same as your understanding of the meaning of
`
` the term "between" in claim 21 here?
`
` A. Yes. It's my understanding that they
`
` are referring to the same space.
`
` Q. So the term "between" means the same
`
` thing in claim 21 as it does in claim 17?
`
` A. It's talking about the same vehicle.
`
` It's talking about the same wheels, the same
`
` size of the vehicle, and hence the same space
`
` in between the front and the rear wheel.
`
` Q. Does the term "between" mean anything
`
` different in claim 21 than it does in claim 17?
`
` A. From my interpretation is that the --
`
` from my understanding is that it's referring to
`
` the same vehicle, the same wheels, the same
`
` side of the vehicle, and hence the same space
`
` in between the front and the rear wheel.
`
` Q. So it doesn't have a different meaning?
`
` A. From my understanding -- my
`
` interpretation is it's the same space in
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`888-391-3376
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`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Exhibit 1094
`Bazooka v. Nuhn - IPR2024-00098
`Page 26 of 297
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` between the front first -- the first front
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` wheel and the rear wheel.
`
` Q. I'm turning back to claim 23. And that
`
` is on column 10, line about 64 would be the
`
` first element. Begins with, "A floatable
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` vehicle body..." and then it ends on the
`
` following page at column 11, line 2. Can you
`
` please read that element?
`
` A. So claim 23 of the '708 patent starting
`
` on column 10 reads, "An amphibious vehicle
`
` comprising," the first element being, "A
`
` floatable vehicle body comprising buoyant
`
` elements having foam-filled buoyant chambers,
`
` the buoyant elements comprising the first
`
` buoyant element situated between the first
`
` front wheel and the first rear wheel, and a
`
` second buoyant element between the second front
`
` wheel and the second rear wheel." Is that
`
` where you want me to stop?
`
` Q. Yes, please. Thank you. Is your
`
` understanding of the term "between" in claim 23
`
` the same as your understanding of the meaning
`
` of the term "between" in claim 17 and 21?
`
` MR. LUCHSINGER: Objection as to
`
` form.
`
`www.veritext.com
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`888-391-3376
`
`Exhibit 1094
`Bazooka v. Nuhn - IPR2024-00098
`Page 27 of 297
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`Page 28
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` THE WITNESS: Please restate your
`
` question, Mr. Stemler.
`
` BY MR. STEMLER:
`
` Q. Yeah. Do you understand "between" as
`
` it's written in claim 23 to mean the same thing
`
` as the term "between" as it's written in claim
`
` 17 and 21?
`
` MR. LUCHSINGER: Objection as to
`
` form.
`
` THE WITNESS: It's talking about a
`
` space situated -- claim 23 is talking about --
`
` more discussion about the buoyant chambers.
`
` And they're talking about the first buoyant
`
` element. And it is situated between the first
`
` front wheel and the first r
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