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`COUNTY OF SUFFOLK
`COMMONWEALTH OF MASSACHUSETTS
`
`October 17, 2022
`
`This is to certify that the attached translation is, to the best of my knowledgeand belief, a true
`and accurate translation from «Japanese»into «English» of the attached document:
`
`«Interview with Ken Kutaragi, President of SCEI (3) - “Why | worked with NVIDIA on the PS3”»
`
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`TAT/2017
`
`Hiroshige Goto's Weekly Foreign News
`
`aX Yx>—
`
`Hiroshige Goto’s Weekly
`Foreign Newsm
`
`Interview with Ken Kutaragi,
`President of SCEI (3)
`"Why I worked with NVIDIA
`on the PS3 |
`
`
`
`¢Why wedidn’t use a Cell-based
`graphics chip
`
`{Q] Last year we were surprised that
`you didn’t use Cell-based architecture
`when you designed the PS3. Why
`didn’t you build a Cell-based GPU?
`
`
`
`Mr. Ken Kutaragi
`
`{Kutaragi] You can use Cell’s 7 SPEs (Synergistic Processor
`Elements) for graphics. Actually, a few of our models at E3
`didn’t have graphics processors and Cell alone was responsible
`for all the graphics, including rendering. The thing is, using
`Cell for somethinglike this is a bit of a waste. Cell has better
`uses.
`
`Wehad the ideato install two Cells (one to be used mainly
`for graphics), but we decided against it because we thought that
`the importance of using Cell as a computer and its function as a
`shader were too different. Shaders are their own thing, and we
`want them to be architecture that is thoroughly specialized (in
`graphics) that can also be multi-functional. Although,it is also
`possible, for example, to do display mapping (using SPE).
`
`So far (real-time 3D graphics) have madeit look like that is
`happening, butit’s different within the actual (3D graphics)
`space. Still, image resolution has been good so far. Even today,
`most
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`games coming out on the Xbox 360are still using that kind
`of 3D graphics.
`
`But we wantto do it properly (where 3D metamorphosis is
`reflected in the 3D space). To achievethis, the idea is to share
`data (between the CPU and GPU)as muchas possible. That's
`why weused this architecture. Essentially, the GPU and Cell
`floating-point units should be identical in everything from
`precision to rounding errors. This time, they are muchcloser,
`almost the same. So, we can use (the results of arithmetic) in
`both directions.
`
`«Stopping the use ofDRAM for full HDTV
`
`[Q] I was expecting you to use eDRAM (embedded DRAM)
`for the graphics memory, but I understood why you didn’t use
`eDRAMwhenI heard about the two HDTV screens.
`
`{Kutaragi] Even ifthe GPU doesn't have graphics memory,
`it can be supported by Redwood (a high-speed interface
`connecting Cell and RSX) and YDRAM (a code namefor
`XDRDRAM). Because YDRAM hasunified (memory).
`
`Even so, there is the problem whetherit’s okay to waste
`(bandwidth and cycle time) by accessing memory in distant
`locations when doing (graphics) routine processing and shader
`(computing). There's no need to use (memory bandwidth) on
`Cell for routine tasks. Shaders also need to use memory
`because they perform a tremendous volumeofarithmetic.
`Especially if you want to use two or more screens of 2k x 1k
`(1,920 x 1,080 dots) in progressive display on a full HDTV,
`you will need a large amount of VRAM.
`
`In this scenario eDRAMisn't an option. Using eDRAMis
`good for the PS2. But this timeit’s not enough for even two
`screens. Suppose that an amount of eDRAM (capable of
`supporting a HDTV)is placed in a microchip of 200 or 300
`square millimeters. This would greatly reduce the amount of
`logic (that can be put on the chip dueto the size of the eDRAM)
`and reduce the number of
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`shaders. It’s better to use the logic fully and put a lot of shaders
`on it.
`
`¢The shared vision with NVIDIAofthe ideal processor
`
`[{Q]So why did you work with NVIDIAinstead of other GPU
`vendors?
`
`{Kutaragi] Up until now we've made the graphics for Sony
`Computer Entertainment ourselves, together with Toshiba. We
`wentall out and even made our own process technology. But
`now wehave teamed up with NVIDIA to make the computer
`itself.
`
`NVIDIAare going the whole nine yards with PC graphics,
`even doing whatIntel's processors have been doing with
`programmable shaders. NVIDIA is focusing on processor
`features and performance because its developers, including
`NVIDIA's Chief Scientist David B. Kirk, come from various
`computer companies such as SGI. They are the type to pursue
`what they wantto do all the way without worrying aboutthe
`size of the chip. Sometimes they go overboard, but their culture
`is similar to ours.
`
`NVIDIA's approachaligns with our approach in our pursuit
`of working towards a fully programmable processor. I often
`have the opportunity to talk with Jen-Hsun Huang (President
`and CEO of NVIDIA) and David, and oneofthe things that we
`talk about is making the ideal processor. By ideal, naturally we
`mean a processor that surpasses current PCs, or evenall of the
`current processors.
`
`They are movingsteadily in that direction, and they share our
`vision in that sense. They also share our roadmap and are
`influenced by our architecture. We partnered with NVIDIA
`because we understand each other and want to achieve the same
`
`thing.
`
`Anotherfactoris that displays are moving towardsfixed
`pixel displays (such as LCDs). When wehavefixed pixel
`displays, it will be an era where everything including TVs and
`PCs will be combined together. So we want to support
`everything perfectly.
`
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`Backward compatibility with PS is one thing, but I want to
`support everything from dirty legacy (graphics) to the latest
`shader. We want to whip out a resolution of WSXGAorhigher.
`Whenthat time comesit will faster to bring everything (from
`NVIDIA)all at once than for us to build it from scratch.
`
`{Q] Microsoft used a Unified-Shader architecture for ATI's
`GPU in the Xbox 360. Is Unified-Shader more advanced in
`
`programmability?
`
`{Kutaragi] ATI's architecture looks good atfirst glance
`because the shaderis shared andits architecture is identical to
`
`the Vertex Shader and the Pixel Shader, but I don’t think so.
`For example, where do you put the results of vertex processing
`and how do youflow it back to the shader(for pixel processing).
`The whole thingstalls if any part of it gets clogged up. The
`picture that is being colored is different from the reality. When
`it comes downto practical efficiency, I believe NVIDIA's
`approachis superior.
`
`«Compatibility is maintained
`through a combination of
`hardware and software.
`
`[Q] Will compatibility with older
`PlayStations be achieved with
`hardware?
`
`
`
`PLAYSTATION3
`
`{Kutaragi] That will be done through a combination of
`hardware and software. If you want to do it with software alone
`there are many waysto achieve compatibility, but what’s
`important is how close we can get to perfect compatibility.
`
`The people who develop our software do unexpected and
`unimaginable things. For example, there was a program that
`wasn't logical but just so happened to work. There are cases
`where code is working,but it’s working for a completely
`different reason than what was intended. There are times when
`
`a code passes our testing and weare like, "whatis this code!?”
`
`Weneed to have compatibility with coding like this. Butit's
`not logical, so it's a bit of a hassle (to achieve compatibility
`using software alone). Sometimes hardware is needed, We can
`rely on
`
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`hardware in some areas and software in others with the power
`of the PS3.
`
`[Q] Whatis the CPU's endian when emulating the CPU-side
`code with software.
`
`{Kutaragi] Cell is bi-endian, so it doesn’t matter.
`
`[{Q] Xbox 360 will be compatible with mainly just software.
`They don't have any other choice because they don't
`manufacture their own chips, what do you think about this?
`
`{Kutaragi] The current Xbox will be older generation when
`the new generation comes out this November. In doing so,
`Xboxis essentially wiping itself out. The only way they can fix
`this is by having 100% compatibility from day one. But
`(Microsoft) probably won't be able to commit to that because
`it's a technical difficulty.
`
`¢SCEI and NVIDIAare both very similar
`
`Kutaragi's answers suggest that the relationship between
`SCEI and NVIDIA goes beyond a simple deal to develop
`devices; there is also the element of shared corporate direction
`and culture. Both companies like exploring novel ideas, take
`risks, and push costs to pursue functionality and performance.
`Thatis not to say that they always dothis, but it is a tendency.
`Both companiesare also in agreement on the idea of focusing
`on processors now.
`
`NVIDIAis particularly oriented toward programmability
`compared to other GPU vendors. Specifically, ATI
`Technologies and 3Dlabsalso have a strong focus on
`programmability, but NVIDIA has been the most aggressive in
`improving versatility. NVIDIA will increase the GPU's die size
`(the area of the semiconductor) to achieve this, and are
`prepared for manufacturing cost to skyrocket. It appears that
`SCEIthoughtthat the direction NVIDIA is going in made them
`suitable as a partner.
`
`At the moment, GPUsare rushing toward becoming
`programmable processors that specialize in stream processing
`(processing large amounts of data in small program pieces in a
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`stream-like manner). The system will be able to perform more
`general processing beyond graphics by improving the
`versatility of programmable shaders, i.e. the arithmetic core.
`On the other hand, the main idea of Cell is for it to be a
`general-purpose processor with sub-processors optimized for
`stream processing. The general-purpose processoris being
`evolved into a structure suitable for stream-type processing,
`something that will become more important in the future. In
`other words, SCET and NVIDIA are working towards the same
`goal from different directions and giventhis it is not surprising
`that SCEI and NVIDIA have shared visions. It is also
`
`understandable that the goals of the two companies match in
`terms of the ideal processor.
`
`Kutaragi's answers confirm to us that several options were
`considered for the PlayStation 3 graphics architecture. First
`was the idea to have a single Cell processor perform graphics
`processing. Cell's data processing processor core, SPE,is
`equipped with a SIMD(single instruction, multiple data)
`arithmetic unit, which can essentially do the same thing as a
`programmable shader, which also has a SIMD structure.
`However, it is not realistic to have a Cell perform graphics
`because it would naturally reduce the performance of the Cell
`asa CPU,
`
`The second option was to install two Cells and use one of
`them exclusively for graphics. It can be assumedthat this idea
`involved a proposal to expand Cell architecture into graphics
`and use the SPE for graphics processing. In this case, I assume
`that they would have installed an arithmetic unit specifically for
`graphics processing. However, plans for a Cell-based graphics
`chip are said to have ended at a very early stage.
`
`Incidentally, current PS3 architecture can still use Cell for
`graphics processing. NVIDIA's David B. Kirk also revealed
`that 3D graphics pre-processing and post-processing can be
`performed in a Cell's SPE with a Cell/RSX combination. For
`example, displacement mapping, which transforms vertex data,
`can be performed by the SPE.
`
`http://pe watch impress co.jp/docs/2005/0613/kaigail 89 htm
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`The reason why SCEI did not put eDRAM (embedded
`DRAM)on the RSX is obvious from the supported screen
`resolutions, as I mentioned before. It is also clear that the
`company did not want eDRAMto useup die area in order to
`achieve high shader processing performance. This is a
`fundamentally different approach compared to the PS2's
`graphics synthesizer, which took advantage of the wide
`bandwidth of eDRAMto create special graphics architecture.
`Based onthe information available on the RSX,the architecture
`is colored by NVIDIA’s involvement.
`
`SCEIsolved the compatibility issue in the PlayStation 2 with
`hardware by installing the old PS chipset as a sub-processor.
`That was becauseit’s impossible to ensure almost 100%
`compatibility without using hardware-based solutions.
`Emulating hardware completely in software requires an
`enormous amount of CPU power. This is especially critical for
`machineslike the PS2, where the content of the hardware is
`made public so that developers can freely access resources.
`
`Whatis clear now is that they are essentially trying to
`achieve near-perfect compatibility with the PS3. Therefore, this
`direction of hardware-based compatibility will continue with
`the PS3. This time however, they will make use of Cell's high
`processing power andalso have software-based compatibility
`(emulators). The fact that they wentto the trouble of making
`Cell bi-endian meansthat they will have compatibility on the
`CPUside through Cell. In the early stages of co-development
`with IBM, SCEI reportedly requested that bi-endeian be
`required for compatibility. Incidentally, this time compatibility
`will be achieved for two generations; both the PS and PS2.
`Both the PS and PS2 have MIPS architecture CPUs.
`
`
`
`
`
`Related articles
`
`[June 8] [Overseas ] Interview with SCEI President Kutaragi (1)
`Transforming Computing with PlayStation 3 |
`
`http://oc. watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2005/0608/kaigai 186.htm
`[June 9] [Overseas ] Interview with SCEI President Kutaragi (2)
`“PS3 HDD with full-featured Linux”
`
`http://pe.
`watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2005/0609/kaigai187.htm
`
`
`
`Back issues
`
` http://pe watch impress co.jp/docs/2005/0613/kaigail89 htm
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`17/2017
`
`Hiroshige Goto's Weekly Foreign News
`
`(June 13, 2005)
`
`[Reported by Hiroshige Goto]
`
`
`
`[PC Watch homepage]
`
`
`PC Watch Editorial Department: pc-watch-info@.impress.co.jp We do not respond to
`individual questions.
`
`Copyright (c) 2005 Impress Corporation, an Impress Group
`company. All rights reserved.
`
`http://pe watch impress co.jp/docs/2005/0613/kaigail89 htm
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`THF2017
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`THF2017
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`IPR2023-00922
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`THF2017
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`AMD1318_0157017
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`ATI Ex. 2146
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`IPR2023-00922
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