UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
`CENTRAL DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA
`HONORABLE R. GARY KLAUSNER, JUDGE PRESIDING
`GOTV STREAMING, LLC,
`
`)))))))))))))))))))
`
`Plaintiff,
`
`Vs.
`
`NETFLIX, INC.,
`
`Defendant.
`________________________________
`
`No. CV22-07556-RGK
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`REPORTER'S TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
`JURY TRIAL
`DAY 2
`LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA
`WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 18, 2023
`
`MIRIAM V. BAIRD, CSR 11893, CCRA
`OFFICIAL U.S. DISTRICT COURT REPORTER
`350 WEST FIRST STREET
`FOURTH FLOOR
`LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA 90012
`MVB11893@aol.com
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`services. But you can consider it all the servers on the one
`hand.
`
`Then on the other hand the user interfaces, which
`are on four categories of devices that have been discussed
`multiple times. That's the TV, the Apple devices, the
`Android devices, and then the internet, people accessing
`Netflix via web browsers on the internet.
`Q.
`Professor, did you hear Dr. Malek talk about the patent
`claims requiring an application?
`A.
`I did, yes.
`Q.
`Is that the Netflix UI?
`The claimed application -- it's
`A.
`Most certainly not. The claimed application -- it's
`very clear in the claims in the patent -- the application has
`very clear in the claims in the patent -- the application has
`to be executing on the server.
`to be executing on the server. That's completely different
`from the client device like a laptop computer or a mobile
`phone. The Netflix UI is on the client device so that the
`claimed application can't be that, the Netflix UI.
`Q.
`Do have an understanding of how to assess if Netflix has
`infringed a claim or not?
`A.
`Yes. Well, to infringe a patent claim, the accused
`system or device has to meet every one of the elements of the
`claim. And so in this case I looked at each of the claims
`and every one of the elements in light of the product that
`had been accused.
`Q.
`And did you understand the patent from a particular
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`alluded to earlier, which is at that time a broad diversity
`of devices. They came up with what they believed to be a
`specific solution to enabling applications running on servers
`to be presented to users of those devices.
`Q.
`You mentioned the patents had a particular arrangement.
`The patent describes a particular arrangement. What is that
`at a high level?
`So the patents, the asserted claims require an
`A.
`So the patents, the asserted claims require an
`application that's executing on a server
`application that's executing on a server and that the server
`sends -- in order to facilitate that, the server sends an
`identification of custom configuration and further sends what
`is called compiled content.
`Q.
`How does this work from a client device's perspective?
`A.
`So the client device basically needs to be told how to
`display something and then what to display. So the client
`receives the custom configuration, receives the compiled
`content, and then it can construct the display for the
`screen.
`Q.
`Let's talk a bit about Netflix, Professor. Have you
`used Netflix?
`A.
`I have from time to time, yes. I work a lot so I don't
`watch a lot of TV, but I have on occasion.
`Q.
`Did you enjoy it?
`A.
`Which I do, yes. I sometimes watch some shows on
`various networks, including Netflix, and I try do enjoy it.
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`look and feel portion of that construction?
`A.
`Yes, I did.
`Q.
`Did you see Dr. Malek's report that provides his
`understanding of the look and feel portion of the
`construction?
`A.
`Yes, I did.
`Q.
`Does the Netflix system -- excuse me. What has
`Dr. Malek identified as the application that we see in this
`construction?
`A.
`So it's important to emphasize that the claims require
`A.
`So it's important to emphasize that the claims require
`-- they recite an application, and that application has to be
`-- they recite an application, and that application has to be
`executing on the server. D
`executing on the server. Dr. Malek has pointed to the entire
`Netflix back end, the combination of the content delivery
`network, the CDN, and the AWS, Amazon web services server.
`So all of that collectively is what Dr. Malek has pointed to
`as meeting the application.
`Q.
`Does the Netflix system have the claimed custom
`configuration that determines the look and feel of the
`application?
`A.
`Not at all.
`Q.
`Why not?
`A.
`So the look and feel, it's to help -- to answer that
`question, I think it's helpful to explain the look and feel.
`The Court's construction again specifically says that the
`custom configuration is tied to the look and feel.
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`element defines look and feel of the Amazon or Netflix
`homepage.
`Q.
`What does Dr. Malek point to as custom configuration
`that satisfies a look and feel requirement?
`A.
`So, for example, he points to the billboard image as
`well as the images in the continue-watching row and the
`containers for those images. Those are some examples of what
`he points to.
`Q.
`And which application is that supposed to determine the
`look and feel for?
`Well, according to the patent, the application is --
`A.
`Well, according to the patent, the application is --
`needs to be executing on the server.
`needs to be executing on the server. Dr. Malek has alleged
`that the application is basically running on the entire back
`end. I disagree with that, but that's what he alleges.
`Q.
`Do you have any reaction to that?
`A.
`Well, I disagree with that. I don't think that -- I
`think what's on the user devices is one thing, and what's on
`the back end is something completely different. When you
`download an app onto your mobile phone, a Netflix app, that's
`an application on the mobile phone. That's not an
`application running in the Netflix back end.
`Q.
`Can you elaborate a little bit more on why no particular
`billboard image or background image determines look and feel
`of an application.
`A.
`Yeah. As I mentioned before, the look -- as I
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`or none of the collection of elements that Dr. Malek has
`identified are -- actually provide, as the Court's
`construction requires, the look and feel of the Netflix
`homepage.
`Q.
`And anything further in term --
`A.
`Yeah. The -- it has to be for an application, the
`A.
`Yeah. The -- it has to be for an application, the
`claimed application. And the claimed application in the
`claimed application. And the claimed application in the
`patents has to be executing on the server, and that's also
`patents has to be executing on the server, and that's also
`what is not happening here.
`what is not happening here.
`Q.
`If the custom configuration isn't present in an accused
`system, what does that mean about the alleged -- the accused
`claims here?
`A.
`Well, that means that this claim element is not met in
`each of claim 1 for the '715 patent and claim 12 for the '245
`patent. And if any one claimed element is missing, that
`means the claim as a whole is not infringed. So that means
`that neither claim 4 for the '715 patent nor claim 16 for the
`'245 patent are infringed.
`Q.
`Professor, do you have any other reasons why you
`conclude there's no infringement here?
`A.
`I do, yes.
`Q.
`And what is that?
`A.
`So this next demonstrative is -- it's the same,
`basically the same text that I was discussing before. What
`has changed is that there's a different portion of the text
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`highlighted, and it's important to notice that both the top
`and the bottom require that the custom configuration is
`associated with an application.
`And that application has to be the same application
`And that application has to be the same application
`that I discussed before, the one that's executing on the
`that I discussed before, the one that's executing on the
`server.
`server. And that's not satisfied either.
`Q.
`Are the various components of the Netflix system that
`Dr. Malek points to for custom configuration, are those
`associated with the application he identifies?
`A.
`No, they are not.
`Q.
`Why is that?
`A.
`Because they -- the application will have a particular
`-- it will be understood by one of skill in the art, and
`these are components that are operating on the user
`interfaces of the individual, you know, client devices, and
`they are not associated with what Dr. Malek has identified as
`the aspects of the application.
`Q.
`You've mentioned a few times, Professor, the notion of
`the entire Netflix back end. Can a collection of software
`programs ever constitute an application together?
`A.
`Yes. Under -- just speaking generally, not about this
`case particularly. But, yes, it is possible to have an
`application that is built using a collection of software
`programs. That's right.
`Q.
`Do you agree with Dr. Malek's opinion in this case that
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`correct?
`A.
`Compiled content must be sent to the device. That's
`right.
`Q.
`The device has its own software application on it,
`Q.
`The device has its own software application on it,
`correct?
`correct?
`A.
`It has software on it.
`A.
`It has software on it.
`Q.
`Is that software not an application?
`Q.
`Is that software not an application?
`A.
`Well, I just want to be careful to make sure that the
`A.
`Well, I just want to be careful to make sure that the
`word application is not misused. It is not the claimed
`word application is not misused. It is not the claimed
`application.
`application.
`Q.
`That's right. It's not the claimed application, but it
`Q.
`That's right. It's not the claimed application, but it
`is an application, correct?
`is an application, correct?
`A.
`It depends -- I mean, it doesn't say that specifically
`A.
`It depends -- I mean, it doesn't say that specifically
`here, but it -- I don't think it excludes that. But it
`here, but it -- I don't think it excludes that. But it
`doesn't say specifically that it must be describable as an
`doesn't say specifically that it must be describable as an
`application on the client.
`application on the client.
`Q.
`So you have an application, claimed application on the
`Q.
`So you have an application, claimed application on the
`server, correct?
`server, correct?
`A.
`There must be an application on the server. That's
`A.
`There must be an application on the server. That's
`right.
`right.
`Q.
`Then the app -- a different application on the wireless
`Q.
`Then the app -- a different application on the wireless
`device renders a user display, correct?
`device renders a user display, correct?
`A.
`Well, it renders a display that shows the application
`A.
`Well, it renders a display that shows the application
`that's running on the server, yeah.
`that's running on the server, yeah.
`Q.
`Okay. So when you look at that look and feel, you're
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