UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`____________
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`____________
`
`HOPEWELL PHARMA VENTURES, INC.
`
`Petitioner,
`
`v.
`
`MERCK SERONO S.A.,
`
`Patent Owner.
`____________
`IPR2023-00480 (Patent 7,713,947 B2)
`IPR2023-00481 (Patent 8,377,903 B2)
`____________
`
`CONFIDENTIAL
`VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF
`Nicholas Bodor, PhD, DSc, dhc, HoF
`
`Pages 1 to 143
`
`Thursday, February 15, 2024
`9:34 a.m. - 2:03 p.m.
`
`Bodor Laboratories
`4400 Biscayne Boulevard
`11th Floor
`Miami, Florida
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`STENOGRAPHICALLY REPORTED BY:
`NANCY E. PAULSEN, CRR, CRC, RPR
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`Hopewell EX1059
`Hopewell v. Merck
`IPR2023-00481
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`1
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`____________
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`____________
`
`HOPEWELL PHARMA VENTURES, INC.
`
`Petitioner,
`
`v.
`
`MERCK SERONO S.A.,
`
`Patent Owner.
`____________
`IPR2023-00480 (Patent 7,713,947 B2)
`IPR2023-00481 (Patent 8,377,903 B2)
`____________
`
`CONFIDENTIAL
`VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF
`Nicholas Bodor, PhD, DSc, dhc, HoF
`
`Pages 1 to 143
`
`Thursday, February 15, 2024
`9:34 a.m. - 2:03 p.m.
`
`Bodor Laboratories
`4400 Biscayne Boulevard
`11th Floor
`Miami, Florida
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`STENOGRAPHICALLY REPORTED BY:
`NANCY E. PAULSEN, CRR, CRC, RPR
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`CONFIDENTIAL
`Transcript of Nicholas Bodor, Ph.D., DSc, dhc, HoF
`Conducted on February 15, 2024
`
`2
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` APPEARANCES:
` On Behalf of the Petitioner
` CHRISTINA E. DASHE, ESQUIRE (via Zoom)
` ELDORA L. ELLISON, ESQUIRE (via Zoom)
` OLGA A. PARTINGTON, ESQUIRE (via Zoom)
` TYLER C. LIU, ESQUIRE (via Zoom)
` MADELEINE C. BOND, ESQUIRE (in person)
` Sterne Kessler Goldstein Fox
` 1101 K Street NW, 10th Floor
` Washington, DC 20005
` 202-772-8525
` Cdashe@sternekessler.com,
` eellison@sternekessler.com,
` opartington@sternekessler.com,
` tliu@sternekessler.com,
` Mbond@sternekessler.com
`
` On Behalf of the Patent Owner
`
` DAVID MLAVER, ESQUIRE (In person)
` ASHER MCGUFFIN, ESQUIRE (In person)
` WilmerHale
` 60 State Street
` Boston, Massachusetts 02109
` 617-526-6197
` David.mlaver@wilmerhale.com,
` asher.mcguffin@wilmerhale.com
`
`Also Present:
` Willem de Weerd, Merck KGaA (via Zoom)
` Lhassan Elmilki, Videographer (In person)
` Emil White, Remote Zoom Technician (via Zoom)
` Michael Pietanza, In-room Zoom Technician
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`CONFIDENTIAL
`Transcript of Nicholas Bodor, Ph.D., DSc, dhc, HoF
`Conducted on February 15, 2024
`
`3
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` I N D E X
`Deponent Page
`Nicholas Bodor, PhD, DSc, dhc, HoF
` DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. DASHE 6
`
` CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 141
` CERTIFICATE OF OATH 143
`
` E X H I B I T S
`No. Description Page
` Exhibit 1022 Bodor PCT application.............. 101
` Exhibit 1055 IVAX Corporation's Form 10-K for 79
` fiscal year 2003...................
` Exhibit 1056 IVAX Corporation's Form 10-K for 83
` fiscal year 2004...................
` Exhibit 1057 US Patent Number 7,888,328......... 111
` Exhibit 1058 File history for US Patent 116
` Number 8,785,415...................
` Exhibit 2029 US Patent Number 8,785,415......... 114
` Exhibit 2054 Bodor declaration.................. 14
` Exhibit 2069 US Patent Number 7,888,328......... 109
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`CONFIDENTIAL
`Transcript of Nicholas Bodor, Ph.D., DSc, dhc, HoF
`Conducted on February 15, 2024
`
`4
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` REMOTE ZOOM TECHNICIAN WHITE: Thank you to
`everyone for attending this proceeding remotely and
`in person. We anticipate things will run smoothly
`going forward.
` Please remember to speak slowly and do your
`best not to talk over one another. Please be aware
`that we are recording this proceeding for backup
`purposes as well.
` Any off-the-record discussion should be had
`away from the computer, and please remember to mute
`your mic for those conversations.
` Please have your video enabled to help the
`reporter identify who is speaking, but if you are
`unable to connect video and you are connecting via
`phone, we just ask that you identify yourself each
`time before speaking.
` I apologize in advance for any more
`technical-related interruptions. Thank you.
` VIDEOGRAPHER ELMILKI: Here begins Media
`Number 1 in the videotape of Dr. Nicholas Bodor in
`the matter Hopewell Pharma Venture, Inc., versus
`Merck Serono, SA, in the Court of the United
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`CONFIDENTIAL
`Transcript of Nicholas Bodor, Ph.D., DSc, dhc, HoF
`Conducted on February 15, 2024
`
`5
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`States -- of the United States Patent and Trial
`Office, Case Number IPR2023-2 -- 00480 and
`IPR2023-00481.
` Today is Thursday, February 15, 2024, and the
`time -- the time on the video monitor is 9:34 a.m.
`Eastern Time. The videographer for today is
`Lhassan Elmilki, representing Planet Depo, and the
`video deposition is taking place at 440 [sic]
`Biscayne Boulevard, Suite 980, Miami, Florida, ZIP
`Code is 33137.
` Would the counsel please voice identify
`themselves and state whom them -- who -- who they
`represent.
` MS. DASHE: I'm Christina Dashe from Sterne
`Kessler on behalf of Petitioner Hopewell. With me
`today remotely are Eldora Ellison, Olga Partington,
`and Tyler Lui, also of Sterne Kessler. And with me
`today in person with the witness is Madeleine Bond,
`also of Sterne Kessler.
` MR. MLAVER: Good morning, this is David
`Mlaver of WilmerHale on behalf of the patent owner.
`With me are Asher McGuffin and by remote Willem de
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`CONFIDENTIAL
`Transcript of Nicholas Bodor, Ph.D., DSc, dhc, HoF
`Conducted on February 15, 2024
`
`6
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` Weerd of Merck KGaA.
` THE COURT REPORTER: Doctor, would you raise
` your right hand, please.
` Do you swear or affirm the testimony you are
` about to give will be the truth and nothing but the
` truth?
` THE WITNESS: I do.
` THE COURT REPORTER: Thank you.
`THEREUPON,
` NICHOLAS BODOR, PHD, DSC, DHC, HOF,
`having been duly sworn to tell the truth, was examined
`and testified as follows:
` DIRECT EXAMINATION
`BY MS. DASHE:
` Q. Dr. Bodor, could you please state and spell
`your name for the record?
` A. I am Nicholas Bodor, N-I-C-H-O-L-A-S,
`B-O-D-O-R.
` Q. What is your address?
` A. Home address is 10225 Collins Avenue,
`Apartment 1002, Bal Harbour, Florida, 33154.
` Q. Have you ever been deposed before?
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`CONFIDENTIAL
`Transcript of Nicholas Bodor, Ph.D., DSc, dhc, HoF
`Conducted on February 15, 2024
`
`7
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` A. Not like this.
` Q. ... this?
` Have you ever sat for a deposition in any
`capacity?
` A. I have to ask opinion. About 40 years ago, I
`was involved in a patent interference case and I was
`deposed, but not like this, it was just the counsel on
`both sides.
` Q. The deposition 20 years ago -- or 40 years
`ago, excuse me, in the patent interference case, have
`you ever been deposed before?
` A. No.
` Q. Okay. I would like to go over some ground
`rules for today's deposition. To start, I'll be asking
`you some questions, and your counsel may object, but
`it's important for the court reporter that we don't all
`talk over one another today.
` Is that all right?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And similarly, the court reporter cannot
`really take down nonverbal answers, like shaking your
`head or saying "um-hum." Can you please agree to give
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`CONFIDENTIAL
`Transcript of Nicholas Bodor, Ph.D., DSc, dhc, HoF
`Conducted on February 15, 2024
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`8
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`verbal answers today?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Sometimes your counsel may object to my
`questions, but you still have to answer them unless
`counsel directs you not to answer them. Will you agree
`to abide by this rule?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Now, if at any point today you need a break,
`please let me know and I will try to accommodate, but
`the patent office rules require that you do answer any
`pending questions before we take a break.
` Will you agree to abide by this rule?
` A. Yes.
` Q. If I ask a question today that you don't
`understand or need further clarification, will you agree
`to let me know, and I can try to clarify and ask a
`better question?
` A. Yes.
` Q. However, if you answer a question that I ask,
`I will assume that you understood it. Is that okay?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Now, because we are operating on a remote
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`CONFIDENTIAL
`Transcript of Nicholas Bodor, Ph.D., DSc, dhc, HoF
`Conducted on February 15, 2024
`
`9
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`basis for today's deposition, there might be some
`technical difficulties. If anything happens that
`interferes with your ability to understand or answer my
`questions, will you agree to let me know?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Now, the patent office rules require that I
`tell you that during my questioning today, you are not
`permitted to discuss your testimony with counsel unless
`you are discussing an issue relating to privilege.
` Will you agree to abide by that rule?
` A. Yes.
` Q. ... why you cannot give truthful testimony
`today?
` A. I -- I don't understand.
` MR. MLAVER: Christina, the first few words of
` your question were cut off.
`BY MS. DASHE:
` Q. Is there any reason, Dr. Bodor, that you
`cannot give truthful testimony today?
` A. No reason.
` Q. Where are you located for today's deposition?
` A. You mean the -- this room? It's --
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`CONFIDENTIAL
`Transcript of Nicholas Bodor, Ph.D., DSc, dhc, HoF
`Conducted on February 15, 2024
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`10
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` Q. Yes, please.
` A. It's 4400 Biscayne Boulevard, on the 11th
`Floor, conference room.
` Q. And besides the counsel and videographer and
`court reporter that already announced their presence on
`the record today, is there anyone else in the room with
`you?
` A. No.
` Q. Okay. Whose computer are you using for
`today's deposition?
` A. I don't know.
` Q. It's someone else's?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Do you have any files or programs open on your
`computer besides the deposition video platform?
` A. I don't have any file with me.
` Q. Do you have access to any other files or
`programs besides today's deposition video platform?
` A. No. No. Not here. I don't have anything.
` MR. MLAVER: Counsel, if it's helpful, we're
` using Planet Depo's computer.
` MS. DASHE: Thank you.
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`CONFIDENTIAL
`Transcript of Nicholas Bodor, Ph.D., DSc, dhc, HoF
`Conducted on February 15, 2024
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`11
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`BY MS. DASHE:
` Q. Do you have any other electronic devices with
`you today, like a cell phone, things of that nature?
` A. I have a cell phone. It was just put away by
`the counsel.
` Q. You won't be accessing your cell phone to
`receive messages or phone calls during the deposition
`today?
` A. I don't plan to, unless I am directed to do
`so.
` But it is turned off, by the way.
` Q. And including on breaks, you won't be
`accessing your cell phone for text messages, phone calls
`relating to the deposition today?
` A. I don't plan to, no.
` Q. Okay. Did you bring anything else with you to
`your deposition today?
` A. No, just my medication if I need it.
` MR. MLAVER: And, Counsel, we do have an
` otherwise unmarked copy of Dr. Bodor's declaration
` with us, if -- if that will assist. So we can
` provide that to him if -- if you need.
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`Transcript of Nicholas Bodor, Ph.D., DSc, dhc, HoF
`Conducted on February 15, 2024
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` MS. DASHE: And, Counsel, that is unmarked, no
` notes or anything like that?
` MR. MLAVER: That's correct.
` MS. DASHE: Okay.
` MR. MLAVER: And Ms. Bond has had an
` opportunity to inspect it and see if that's the
` case.
` MS. DASHE: Okay. Thank you.
` THE WITNESS: One more thing I want to
` ment- -- I don't know if my iWatch, it does matter?
` MR. MLAVER: It -- not if you're not using it.
` THE WITNESS: Okay.
`BY MS. DASHE:
` Q. To totally clarify, Dr. Bodor, will you agree
`not to access your cell phone, or your Apple watch, or
`any other electronic device to receive messages or
`discuss your deposition today?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Okay, thank you.
` What did you do to prepare for this
`deposition?
` A. I reviewed my deposition [sic] and my patent,
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`Transcript of Nicholas Bodor, Ph.D., DSc, dhc, HoF
`Conducted on February 15, 2024
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`and I had discussion with my counsel yesterday.
` Q. Patent, do you mean the Bodor PCT application?
` A. Yes, the Bodor PCT and the other two at-issue
`patents.
` Q. US patents, like Bodor --
` A. Yes.
` Q. Yes?
` A. Yes, patents which I am the sole inventor.
`Not with Dandiker.
` Q. So you reviewed two issued US patents where
`you were the sole inventor?
` A. I think, yes.
` Q. Do you recall what numbers those were?
` A. No.
` Q. You also said that you met with counsel
`yesterday. Who was that counsel?
` A. Next to me, David and Asher.
` Q. These patents that you reviewed, what were the
`titles of the patents that you reviewed?
` A. I think it's "Cladribine Oral Formulation" or
`something like that. I don't know the exact title.
` It was "Oral formulation of cladribine" --
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`Transcript of Nicholas Bodor, Ph.D., DSc, dhc, HoF
`Conducted on February 15, 2024
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` Q. Did you meet with your counsel yesterday?
` A. Yes.
` Q. I'm sorry, I talked over you. What did you
`say?
` A. I think it was "Oral Formulation for
`Cladribine."
` Q. For how long did you meet with counsel
`yesterday to prepare for today's deposition?
` A. I would say it was about three to four hours.
` Q. ... counsel, did you talk to anyone else
`regarding the substance of your deposition today?
` A. No.
` MS. DASHE: Emil, I would like you to
` introduce tab 1, which is the Bodor declaration,
` it's been marked as Exhibit 2054 in these
` proceedings.
` REMOTE ZOOM TECHNICIAN WHITE: Stand by.
` MR. MLAVER: Counsel, if we're going to ask
` questions about the declaration, is it all right if
` I hand him the paper copy of his declaration so he
` can refer to it?
` MS. DASHE: That is just fine, Counsel.
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`CONFIDENTIAL
`Transcript of Nicholas Bodor, Ph.D., DSc, dhc, HoF
`Conducted on February 15, 2024
`
`15
`
` MR. MLAVER: Thank you.
` THE WITNESS: Thank you.
` REMOTE ZOOM TECHNICIAN WHITE: Now showing
` what has been marked as Exhibit 2054.
`BY MS. DASHE:
` Q. Dr. Bodor, can you see the document on the
`screen as well?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And Exhibit 2054, this is your declaration
`that you submitted in Cases IPR2023-00480 and
`IPR2023-00481?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And if I refer to "this case" or "this
`proceeding," I will be collectively referring to both of
`these IPRs. Will you understand that?
` A. Yes.
` Q. If you could please turn to the last page of
`your declaration.
` MS. DASHE: Which is page 13 of the PDF on the
` screen, Emil.
` A. Yes.
`BY MS. DASHE:
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`CONFIDENTIAL
`Transcript of Nicholas Bodor, Ph.D., DSc, dhc, HoF
`Conducted on February 15, 2024
`
`16
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` Q. Let me know when you're there. Okay.
` And your declaration is signed and dated
`December 21st, 2023?
` A. Yes.
` Q. That's your signature that we see on the page?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Do you stand by your testimony in your
`declaration in this case?
` A. Yes.
` Q. You were asked to provide this declaration as
`an inventor of the Bodor PCT patent application titled
`"Oral Formulations to Cladribine"?
` A. Yes.
` Q. When were you first approached to provide your
`declaration in this case?
` A. I don't remember the exact date, but must have
`been some -- sometime in December.
` Late --
` Q. And that would be December 2023?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Who approached you to provide your declaration
`in this case?
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`CONFIDENTIAL
`Transcript of Nicholas Bodor, Ph.D., DSc, dhc, HoF
`Conducted on February 15, 2024
`
`17
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` MR. MLAVER: If you recall who it was, you can
` answer, but I'll caution you not to reveal the
` substance of any communication with counsel.
` A. I really don't remember with who. It was
`maybe my assistant who took the -- the message from the
`patent office -- I mean the law office.
`BY MS. DASHE:
` Q. So was it Merck or its counsel, then, that
`reached out to you to provide your declaration in this
`case?
` Yes-or-no question.
` A. I assume so. Yeah.
` Q. So you have no reason to believe anybody
`besides Merck's counsel reached out to you to provide
`your declaration in this case; right?
` A. No.
` Q. How long did you spend preparing your
`declaration?
` A. I think about four or five hours.
` Q. Was that over the course of multiple days?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Do you know who else provided a declaration in
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`CONFIDENTIAL
`Transcript of Nicholas Bodor, Ph.D., DSc, dhc, HoF
`Conducted on February 15, 2024
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`18
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`this case?
` A. I -- I just learned that I believe Yogesh
`Dandiker did too, my coinventor.
` Q. Just learned, how recently was that?
` A. I think yesterday.
` Q. And so you learned that from counsel?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And have you read Dr. Dandiker's declaration
`in this case?
` A. No.
` Q. And are you aware of anyone else who provided
`a declaration in this case?
` A. No.
` Q. And so because you just learned yesterday that
`Dr. Dandiker provided a declaration, you did not assist
`him in drafting his declaration; correct?
` A. I didn't talk to Dr. Dandiker for 20 years.
` Q. And so Dr. Dandiker also did not help you
`draft or provide your declaration --
` A. No.
` Q. -- in this case; correct?
` A. No.
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`CONFIDENTIAL
`Transcript of Nicholas Bodor, Ph.D., DSc, dhc, HoF
`Conducted on February 15, 2024
`
`19
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` Q. Besides counsel, did you communicate with
`anyone else in order to create your declaration?
` A. My assistant in my office.
` Q. And do you know what the substance of
`Dr. Dandiker's declaration is in this case?
` A. No.
` Q. So besides your assistants in your office and
`counsel, you did not communicate with anyone else in
`order to create your declaration in this case; right?
` A. To prepare the declaration?
` I did ask my former director of research at
`IVAX to send me files related to cladribine.
` Q. And -- and who -- what was that person's name?
` A. That is Dr. Peter Buchwald.
` Q. Could you spell that for the record, please?
` A. B-U-C-H-W-A-L-D.
` Q. ... speak or communicate with Dr. Buchwald in
`the presence of counsel?
` A. No.
` Q. So what did you speak with Dr. Buchwald about
`specifically?
` A. Just to send me -- actually, my assistant
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`CONFIDENTIAL
`Transcript of Nicholas Bodor, Ph.D., DSc, dhc, HoF
`Conducted on February 15, 2024
`
`20
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`called him to send me the -- if he has any file on the
`cladribine work we have done in the research institute
`in Hungary.
` Q. Did he send you any files?
` A. Yes.
` Q. What files did he send you?
` A. Monthly reports.
` Q. Monthly reports?
` A. Yes.
` And two annual reports too.
` Q. How did Dr. Buchwald send you these reports?
`Was it by email? Mail? Something else?
` A. I think by email, and my assistant then made
`copies.
` Q. ... is Dr. Buchwald?
` THE COURT REPORTER: Excuse me, you broke off.
` This is the court reporter.
`BY MS. DASHE:
` Q. Where is Dr. Buchwald?
` A. He is a professor at University of Miami.
` Q. When you say University of Miami, that's in
`Florida?
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`CONFIDENTIAL
`Transcript of Nicholas Bodor, Ph.D., DSc, dhc, HoF
`Conducted on February 15, 2024
`
`21
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` A. Yes.
` Q. And did you provide these monthly reports and
`annual reports Dr. Buchwald sent you to counsel?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And so -- and Dr. Buchwald, did he work with
`you on the cladribine project at IVAX?
` A. No. No, he did not.
` Q. How would Dr. Buchwald have had these files,
`then?
` A. Because he was my assistant at IVAX. He had
`the position of assistant director of research. And so
`he was contact in between the researchers in Budapest
`and me and my assistants. So he was part of my team,
`but he did not work on cladribine here, I don't believe
`he had any involvement of any kind.
` Q. ... a cladribine team at IVAX?
` A. Yes, well, there was not really a team, but
`most of the work was done, actually, at Budapest, at the
`research institute, where they developed the analytical
`methods and then the pharmacokinetic and bioavailability
`studies.
` But Buchwald was not part of it.
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`CONFIDENTIAL
`Transcript of Nicholas Bodor, Ph.D., DSc, dhc, HoF
`Conducted on February 15, 2024
`
`22
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` Q. ... talk to Dr. Buchwald about your
`cladribine --
` A. He was not part of this.
` Q. Okay. So Dr. -- so Dr. Buchwald was not part
`of the actual cladribine research?
` A. Right.
` Q. He was part of --
` A. Correct.
` Q. Okay. And when you reached out to
`Dr. Buchwald about your cladribine files, did you
`discuss those files with him at all?
` A. No.
` Q. Their substance?
` A. No.
` Q. And before you reached out to Dr. Buchwald
`about these documents, when was the last time you had
`spoken with him?
` A. Last fall sometime. His father, who was my
`best friend at the university, passed away, and then we
`talked about his memories and...
` Q. I'm sorry to hear that.
` Besides reaching out to Dr. Buchwald about his
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`CONFIDENTIAL
`Transcript of Nicholas Bodor, Ph.D., DSc, dhc, HoF
`Conducted on February 15, 2024
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`23
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`father, when was the last time you had spoken with him
`before that?
` A. We spoke in -- occasionally last year, because
`I nominated him to be member of the Florida Academia of
`Sciences, and so I needed update his CV.
` But I talked to him on the phone. I -- I
`don't remember when I met him in person.
` Q. And so do you know if Merck provided these
`documents you received from Dr. Buchwald to Hopewell?
` A. I'm sorry, can I have -- you ask again?
` Q. Yeah.
` Do you know if Merck provided these --
` A. Merck. Yeah.
` Q. -- documents to Hopewell?
` A. No. No. These were our files in my I- -- in
`IVAX office.
` Q. And did you provide all of the files you
`received from Dr. Buchwald to Merck's counsel?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Do you recall -- is it that you don't know
`whether or not Merck provided the documents to Hopewell?
`Or Merck did not provide the documents to Hopewell?
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`CONFIDENTIAL
`Transcript of Nicholas Bodor, Ph.D., DSc, dhc, HoF
`Conducted on February 15, 2024
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`24
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` A. I really don't know if Merck had these
`reports, because these were in Hungarian, internal
`reports of the Hungarian research institute, which I was
`director of, and which they did the analytical and
`pharmacokinetic development.
` Q. ... was a little bit different.
` My question was did Merck not provide these
`documents from Dr. Buchwald to Hopewell? Or do you not
`know whether or not Merck provided these documents to
`Hopewell?
` A. I -- again, I said I don't know if Merck had
`these reports, because these were Hungarian reports
`internal to the institute. So I don't think Merck had
`these reports.
` Q. ... one way or another whether or not Merck
`provided these reports from Dr. Buchwald to Hopewell;
`correct?
` A. I don't know.
` Q. Okay. But Merck's counsel has these reports
`from Dr. Buchwald at this point in time; correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Okay. Do you know what the substance of these
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`CONFIDENTIAL
`Transcript of Nicholas Bodor, Ph.D., DSc, dhc, HoF
`Conducted on February 15, 2024
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`reports are from Dr. Buchwald?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And what is that?
` MR. MLAVER: Objection, form.
` You can answer.
` A. I mentioned before that the bioavailability
`and pharmacokinetic studies were done by the research
`institute in Hungary. And these monthly and then annual
`report related to the findings of animal and then human
`studies of the very formulation which we developed in
`my -- in our patent.
`BY MS. DASHE:
` Q. That formulation you're referring to in your
`patent in your declaration is the complex --
` A. Complex --
` Q. -- cladribine-cyclodextrin complex; correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Okay. And that's the formu- -- that --
`scratch that.
` The complex cladribine-cyclodextrin complex
`described in your Bodor PCT application and your
`declaration, that's your invention; right?
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`CONFIDENTIAL
`Transcript of Nicholas Bodor, Ph.D., DSc, dhc, HoF
`Conducted on February 15, 2024
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` A. That's my invention and Dr. Dandiker's
`invention.
` Q. And you just referred to bioavailability and
`pharmacokinetic studies related to the findings of
`animal and human studies. What were those findings?
` A. Well, actually, all of those findings or
`almost all you can find in our patents, in the PCT
`patent.
` Q. The reports you received from Dr. Buchwald
`contain study results that were ultimately disclosed in
`your Bodor PCT application?
` A. Correct.
` Q. And when were these reports prepared?
` A. As I remember, it was in 2003, '4, '5. Mostly
`'4.
` Q. And how many documents did you receive from
`Dr. Buchwald?
` A. As I remember, about five or six monthly
`reports, or -- monthly, and two annual reports in
`English.
` Q. How many pages are the reports apiece?
` A. I would estimate about six or seven pages.
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