`
`Transcript of Dr. Nicholas Bodor
`
`Date: May 28, 2024
`Case: TWI Pharmaceuticals, Inc. -v- Merck Serono SA (PTAB)
`
`Planet Depos
`Phone: 888.433.3767
`Email: transcripts@planetdepos.com
`www.planetdepos.com
`
`WORLDWIDE COURT REPORTING & LITIGATION TECHNOLOGY
`
`EXHIBIT 1044, TWi
`IPR2023-00049, -00050
`
`
`
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
` TWI PHARMACEUTICALS, INC.,
` Petitioner,
` v.
` MERCK SERONO S.A.,
` Patent Owner.
` ----------------------------------
` IPR2023-00049 (Patent 7,713,947 B2)
` IPR2023-00050 (Patent 8,377,903 B2)
`
` DEPOSITION OF DR. NICHOLAS BODOR
` Miami, Florida
` Tuesday, May 28, 2024
` 9:30 a.m.
`
`Reported by:
`LISA M. MURACO
`JOB NO. 538884
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`Transcript of Dr. Nicholas Bodor
`Conducted on May 28, 2024
`
`2
`
` Tuesday, May 28, 2024
` 9:30 a.m.
`
` Deposition of DR. NICHOLAS BODOR, held at
`the offices of Bodor Laboratories, 4400 Biscayne
`Blvd., Suite 980 Miami, FL 33137, before LISA M.
`MURACO, a Notary Public of the State of Florida.
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`Transcript of Dr. Nicholas Bodor
`Conducted on May 28, 2024
`
`3
`
`A P P E A R A N C E S:
`
` ON BEHALF OF DR. NICHOLAS BODOR AND THE
` PATENT OWNER:
` Wilmer Cutler Pickering Hale and Dorr LLP
` 60 State Street
` Boston, MA 02109
` BY: ASHER S. McGUFFIN, ESQ.
` MARY PHENG, ESQ. (REMOTE)
`
` ON BEHALF OF THE PETITIONER:
` Husch Blackwell LLP
` 120 South Riverside Plaza
` Suite 2200
` Chicago, IL 60606
` BY: PHILIP D. SEGREST, ESQ.
`
`Onsite Tech, Lhassan Elmilki
`WILLEM DE WERRD
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`Transcript of Dr. Nicholas Bodor
`Conducted on May 28, 2024
`
`4
`
` IT IS HEREBY STIPULATED AND AGREED
`by and between the attorneys for the
`respective parties herein, that filing and
`sealing be and the same are hereby waived.
` IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND AGREED
`that all objections, except as to the form
`of the question, shall be reserved to the
`time of the trial.
` IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND AGREED
`that the within deposition may be sworn to
`and signed before any officer authorized
`to administer an oath, with the same force and
`effect as if signed and sworn to before
`the Court.
`
` - oOo -
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`Transcript of Dr. Nicholas Bodor
`Conducted on May 28, 2024
`
`5
`
` THE TECHNICIAN: Thank you to everyone for
`attending this proceeding remotely, which we
`anticipate will run smoothly. Please remember to
`speak slowly and do your best not to talk over one
`another. Please be aware that we are recording
`this proceeding for back-up purposes. Any
`off-the-record discussions should be had away from
`the computer. Please remember to mute your
`microphone for those conversations. Please have
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`who is speaking. If you are unable to connect
`with video and are connecting via phone, please
`identify yourselves each time before speaking. I
`apologize in advance any technical-related
`interruptions. Thank you.
` * * *
`D R. N I C H O L A S B O D O R,
` called as a witness, having been duly
` sworn by a Notary Public, was examined and
` testified as follows:
`EXAMINATION BY:
`ATTORNEY SEGREST:
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`Transcript of Dr. Nicholas Bodor
`Conducted on May 28, 2024
`
`6
`
` Q Good morning, Dr. Bodor. My name is
`Philip Segrest. I'm going to be asking some
`questions this morning.
` Now you've been deposed a couple of times
`this year already, right?
` A Yes.
` Q You are familiar with the process, and I
`won't repeat all of that. If you need to take a
`break, let me know. I'm going to ask you answer
`any pending questions, but I know you've got some
`health concerns. I want to make sure we don't
`have to wait an hour to take a break. If you need
`a break, whenever you need one, just let me know.
` This is what's previously been marked as
`Exhibit 2054.
` (Bodor Exhibit 2054, Bodor Declaration,
`previously marked for identification.)
`BY ATTORNEY SEGREST:
` Q It's, I believe this is the declaration
`you submitted in the IPRs with my client TWI.
` Let me direct you to page 13 of this
`document. I'm sorry, page 14.
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`Transcript of Dr. Nicholas Bodor
`Conducted on May 28, 2024
`
`7
`
` A Yes.
` Q Is that your signature?
` A Page 14?
` Q Yes.
` A There's no signature here.
` Q Are you on the page 14 that has
`paragraph 34 on it or are you in the appendix? I
`believe you are in the appendix.
` A Maybe.
` (Document review.)
` A Oh, yes, that's my signature.
` Q Okay.
` And if we can turn back to the front page,
`back to the cover page.
` So do you see in the middle of that page
`the declaration you signed was filed in
`IPR2023-0049?
` A Yes.
` Q And you also see a reference IPR2023-0050?
` A Yes.
` Q If I call this Exhibit 2054, you
`understand I'm referring to this declaration that
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`Transcript of Dr. Nicholas Bodor
`Conducted on May 28, 2024
`
`8
`
`you filed in those two IPRs, right?
` A Yes.
` Q Yes?
` A Yes.
` Q Okay.
` And you understand that IPR2023-0049
`concerns patent number 7,713,947?
` A That's what it says, yes.
` Q Okay.
` If I call that the 049 IPR and the '947
`patent, you'll know what I'm talking about?
` A Yes.
` Q And do you understand that IPR2023-00050
`concerns U.S. Patent 8,377,903?
` A Yes.
` Q So if I call that the 050 IPR and the '903
`patent, will you understand what I'm referring to?
` A Yes.
` Q Okay.
` Now, you testified in two IPRs filed by
`Hopewell, IPR 20230048 -- or 00480 and 00481 back
`on February 15th of 2024, right?
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`Transcript of Dr. Nicholas Bodor
`Conducted on May 28, 2024
`
`9
`
` A I don't understand the question.
` Q Well, let me hand you this, what was filed
`as Exhibit 2041?
` (Bodor Exhibit 2041, Transcript from
`February, previously marked for identification.)
`BY MR. SEGREST:
` Q And this is a transcript.
` Is this a deposition that you gave where
`you were asked questions by Hopewell on
`February 15th of 2024?
` A Yes.
` ATTORNEY McGUFFIN: Yeah. Object to form.
`BY MR. SEGREST:
` Q And you also gave another deposition in
`April of 2024, right?
` ATTORNEY McGUFFIN: Object to form.
` Did you hear my objection.
` THE COURT REPORTER: I just heard it, yes.
` A Yes.
` Q And what I've handed you is -- I've marked
`Exhibit 1041. It's a transcript.
` Was that deposition in April for a
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`Transcript of Dr. Nicholas Bodor
`Conducted on May 28, 2024
`
`10
`
`litigation pending in District Court?
` (Bodor Exhibit 1041, April transcript,
`previously marked for identification.)
` ATTORNEY McGUFFIN: Object to form.
` (Document review.)
` A Yes.
` Q Okay.
` And let's -- in your declaration, turn
`back to page 14 here. That was where your
`signature is.
` A Yes.
` Q I want to direct you to paragraph 34.
` A Yes.
` Q So the first line on that paragraph 34
`there, you state that you declare all statements
`made herein of my knowledge are true.
` Do you see that on the first line?
` ATTORNEY McGUFFIN: Object to form.
` A Yes.
` Q Okay.
` And then also on the second line, you've
`got a different statement: The statements made on
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`Transcript of Dr. Nicholas Bodor
`Conducted on May 28, 2024
`
`11
`
`information and belief are believed to be true.
` Is that accurate?
` ATTORNEY McGUFFIN: Object to form.
` A Yes.
` Q Okay.
` So there's some things in your declaration
`that are based on information and belief and not
`on your personal firsthand knowledge, right?
` ATTORNEY McGUFFIN: Object to form.
` A Yes.
` Q Let's back up to page 12, paragraph 29.
` The second sentence in paragraph 29, it's
`about the fifth line on the page.
` Do you see a statement there that -- would
`you say this sentence (as read): Is highly
`likely?
` (Document review.)
` ATTORNEY McGUFFIN: Counsel, is that a
`question?
` ATTORNEY SEGREST: Yes.
`BY ATTORNEY SEGREST:
` Q Do you see where it says highly likely?
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`Transcript of Dr. Nicholas Bodor
`Conducted on May 28, 2024
`
`12
`
` A Yes.
` ATTORNEY McGUFFIN: Note my objection to
`form.
` ATTORNEY SEGREST: Sure.
`BY ATTORNEY SEGREST:
` Q So this second sentence in this paragraph,
`that's an example of something that you are saying
`on information and belief, right, not on your
`personal firsthand knowledge?
` ATTORNEY McGUFFIN: Object to form.
` A Yes.
` Q Okay.
` Let's back up to paragraph 10 of your
`declaration. It's on page 4.
` So this says you started your employment
`at IVAX in early 2000, right?
` A Yes.
` Q I think in one of your depositions you
`might have said it was at the end of 1999.
` Do you remember if it was the end of 1999
`or the beginning of 2000?
` ATTORNEY McGUFFIN: Object to form.
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`Transcript of Dr. Nicholas Bodor
`Conducted on May 28, 2024
`
`13
`
` A Both are true, you know. The end of '99,
`I became director -- initially director of the
`research institute in Hungary, and then started in
`2000 year at IVAX as senior vice president for
`research and discovery.
` Q So is the research institute at Hungary, a
`part of IVAX Corporation?
` ATTORNEY McGUFFIN: Object to form and
`scope.
` A Yes.
` Q Paragraph 10 refers to the research
`institute at Budapest, Hungary, right?
` ATTORNEY McGUFFIN: Object to form.
` A It was in Hungary, yes.
` Q I'm sorry. I was asking -- you mentioned
`that in paragraph 10 here, right?
` A Yes.
` Q And the fourth line, going into the fifth,
`uses a name IVAX Drug Research Institute, and the
`next line mentions IVAX Research Institute.
` Are those two different organizations?
` A Yes.
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`Transcript of Dr. Nicholas Bodor
`Conducted on May 28, 2024
`
`14
`
` Q Okay.
` A Sorry. Sorry.
` ATTORNEY McGUFFIN: Yeah, if you could
`just remember to pause before answering.
` Object to form.
` THE WITNESS: Yes.
`BY ATTORNEY SEGREST:
` Q So what's the difference between those
`two?
` A IVAX Drug Research Institute was the
`entity in Budapest as a research institute in
`Hungary or the -- of IVAX. I had other
`responsibilities being here at IVAX. And I
`conducted other groups' research.
` Q Okay.
` IVAX actually had facilities in this
`building back then; didn't they?
` ATTORNEY McGUFFIN: Object to form.
`Scope.
` A This was the IVAX building, yes.
` Q Do you know if these were all three
`separate corporate entities?
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`Transcript of Dr. Nicholas Bodor
`Conducted on May 28, 2024
`
`15
`
` ATTORNEY McGUFFIN: Objection.
`Foundation. Scope.
` A Which were?
` Q IVAX Corporation, IVAX Drug Research
`Institute, and IVAX Research Institute; do you
`know if those were three separate corporate
`entities?
` ATTORNEY McGUFFIN: Same objections.
` A I don't know what that means, corporate
`entity.
` Q Okay.
` So you are not familiar with the corporate
`structure or exactly how they may have been
`related; is that accurate?
` ATTORNEY McGUFFIN: Object to form.
` A Well, no. I assume I know IVAX bought the
`Research Institute in Budapest and it had many
`subsidiaries all over the world. So I believe
`that -- that's a corporate structure.
` Q Okay.
` Let's look at paragraph 18, please. This
`is on page 6 of your declaration.
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`Transcript of Dr. Nicholas Bodor
`Conducted on May 28, 2024
`
`16
`
`A Yes.
`
`Q Now, does this paragraph refer to a joint
`
`development agreement between IVAX and Serono?
`
`ATTORNEY McGUFFIN: Object to form.
`
`A Yes.
`
`Q Now, when you were working at IVAX, you
`
`were not
`
`involved in that joint development
`
`agreement, right?
`
`ATTORNEY McGUFFIN: Object to form.
`
`A No.
`
`A No
`
`Q
`
`I think I worded that phrase -- that
`
`question poorly. Let me ask it without my double
`
`negative in there.
`
`Were you involved in that joint
`
`development agreement when you worked in IVAX back
`
`in 2004?
`
`ATTORNEY McGUFFIN: Object to form.
`
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`Transcript of Dr. Nicholas Bodor
`Conducted on May 28, 2024
`
`17
`
`So this paragraph is also something that's
`
`based on information and belief and not your
`
`personal firsthand knowledge, right?
`
`ATTORNEY McGUFFIN: Object to form.
`
`Yes.
`
`Let's look at paragraph 19 next.
`
`And does this paragraph testimony concern
`
`your provisional patent application number
`
`60/458, 922?
`
`BY ATTORNEY SEGREST:
`
`ATTORNEY McGUFFIN: Object to form.
`
`A Yes.
`
`Q And is that this Exhibit 2444 that's been
`
`previously marked?
`
`(Bodor Exhibit 2444, Provisional Patent
`
`Application Number 60/458,922, previously marked
`
`for identification.)
`
`(Document review.)
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`Transcript of Dr. Nicholas Bodor
`Conducted on May 28, 2024
`
`18
`
` Q I see you are looking through it. I think
`the application number is on the front cover.
` A Yes.
` Q So then a sentence that begins about the
`sixth line of paragraph 19, you say here (as
`read): The 922 provisional did not contain any
`proposed or suggested dosing regimen using
`Cladribine formulations for treating MS.
` ATTORNEY McGUFFIN: Object to form. I
`want to note we turned back to Exhibit 2054.
` ATTORNEY SEGREST: You can answer.
` A Yes.
` Q Okay.
` So in Exhibit 2054, moving to
`paragraph 20.
` Is this paragraph your testimony about
`provisional patent application number 60/484,756?
` ATTORNEY McGUFFIN: Object to form.
` A Yes.
` Q And I'm going to hand you what's been
`previously marked as Exhibit 2045.
` (Bodor Exhibit 2045, Provisional Patent
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`Transcript of Dr. Nicholas Bodor
`Conducted on May 28, 2024
`
`19
`
`Application Number 60/484,756, previously marked
`for identification.)
`BY ATTORNEY SEGREST:
` Q Is that patent application that you are
`referring to in paragraph 20 of your declaration?
` (Document review.)
` ATTORNEY McGUFFIN: Object to form.
` A Yes.
` Q So in your declaration, Exhibit 2054, in
`paragraph 20 you also say (as read): The 756
`provisional did not contain any proposed or
`suggested dosing regimen using Cladribine
`formulations for treating MS, right?
` A Yes.
` Q And the next is paragraph 21 of your
`declaration, Exhibit 2054.
` Does this have your testimony about
`provisional patent application number 60/541,247?
` ATTORNEY McGUFFIN: Object to form.
` A Yes.
` Q I'll handing what has been previously
`marked as Exhibit 246.
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`Transcript of Dr. Nicholas Bodor
`Conducted on May 28, 2024
`
`20
`
` (Bodor Exhibit 246, Provisional Patent
`Application Number 60/541,247, previously marked
`for identification.)
`BY ATTORNEY SEGREST:
` Q Is this Exhibit 246 the 247 provisional
`application that you referred in paragraph 21 of
`your declaration?
` ATTORNEY McGUFFIN: Object to form.
` A Yes.
` Q This paragraph 21, though, is different
`from paragraphs 19 and 20, right, because you
`don't deny that the 247 provisional does have a
`disclosure about a dosing regimen for Cladribine
`for MS, right?
` ATTORNEY McGUFFIN: Object to form.
` A Yes.
` ATTORNEY McGUFFIN: Mischaracterizes the
`testimony.
`BY ATTORNEY SEGREST:
` Q Well, in your declaration, Exhibit 2054,
`if we turn to paragraph 26, it starts on page 10,
`but I want to ask you about the end of the
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`Transcript of Dr. Nicholas Bodor
`Conducted on May 28, 2024
`
`21
`
`paragraph on page 11.
` I'm sorry. I'm on Exhibit 2054, your
`declaration.
` A Yes.
` Q Okay.
` So pages 10 through 11 you've got
`paragraph 26.
` Do you see that?
` A Yes.
` Q And so on page 11, the last sentence in
`paragraph 26, do you see that block quotation?
` A Yes.
` Q And, actually, in this paragraph here in
`this block quote, it recites the specific language
`from the 247 provisional that discloses a proposed
`or suggested dosing regimen using Cladribine
`formulations for treating multiple sclerosis,
`right?
` ATTORNEY McGUFFIN: Object to form.
`Mischaracterizes testimony.
` (Document review.)
` A Well, it is, except it's not called a
`
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`Transcript of Dr. Nicholas Bodor
`Conducted on May 28, 2024
`
`22
`
`dosing regimen.
` Q So you are saying that this is not a
`dosing regimen? In this quote, that that's not a
`dosing regimen?
` A No, I said that it's not called a dosing
`regimen.
` Q Oh, it doesn't use that language, right?
`Okay.
` ATTORNEY McGUFFIN: Note an objection to
`form.
`BY ATTORNEY SEGREST:
` Q And this quote, you are quoting that from
`the 247 provisional, right, Exhibit 2046?
` A Yes.
` Q Let's go back to paragraph 23 on page 9 of
`your declaration, Exhibit 2054.
` Now, this paragraph 23 has your testimony
`about the filing of what's been called a Bodor PCT
`application. That's WO 2004/087101, right?
` A Yes.
` Q And I'll hand you what is previously
`marked as Exhibit 1007.
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`Transcript of Dr. Nicholas Bodor
`Conducted on May 28, 2024
`
`23
`
` (Bodor Exhibit 1007, Bodor PCT
`Application, marked for identification.)
`BY ATTORNEY SEGREST:
` Q This is Exhibit 1007 is the Bodor PCT
`application that you refer to paragraph 23 in your
`declaration, right?
` (Document review.)
` A Yes.
` Q Okay.
` And then paragraph 24 of your declaration
`has testimony about what you call the Bodor '328
`patent, right?
` A Yes.
` Q And the full cite for that is back in
`paragraph 3 of your declaration, I believe, is
`that U.S. Patent Number 788328?
` ATTORNEY McGUFFIN: Object to form.
` A Yes.
` Q Okay.
` (Bodor Exhibit 1029, Bodor '328 Patent,
`marked for identification.)
`BY ATTORNEY SEGREST:
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`Transcript of Dr. Nicholas Bodor
`Conducted on May 28, 2024
`
`24
`
` Q I'll hand you what has been previously
`marked as Exhibit 1029.
` Dr. Bodor, is this Exhibit 1029, the Bodor
`PCT application that you discuss in paragraph 4 of
`your declaration?
` ATTORNEY McGUFFIN: Object to form.
`Counsel, this is 328.
` ATTORNEY SEGREST: I thought that's what I
`said. Did I misspeak?
` Oh, I'm sorry. You're right. Strike
`that.
`BY ATTORNEY SEGREST:
` Q Is this Exhibit 1029, the Bodor '328
`patent that's referred to in paragraph 24 of your
`declaration?
` A Yes.
` Q Now, this '328 patent is the U.S. national
`stage entry of the Bodor PCT application, right?
` ATTORNEY McGUFFIN: Object to form.
`Foundation.
` A It is.
` Q Okay.
`
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`Transcript of Dr. Nicholas Bodor
`Conducted on May 28, 2024
`
`25
`
` And -- do you see on the bibliographic
`page where you got those numbers on the left
`column, numbers 86 and 87 both refer to that PCT
`application that's the Bodor PCT application,
`right?
` A Yes.
` ATTORNEY McGUFFIN: Object to form.
`BY ATTORNEY SEGREST:
` Q And if we turn to column 1 in the document
`on page 4 of 16 of this patent, this says the
`application is the U.S. national stage of
`international application number -- and that gives
`the number for the Bodor PCT application, right?
` ATTORNEY McGUFFIN: Object to form.
` A Yes.
` Q Now, looking back at your declaration,
`paragraph 24, in the second sentence here you say
`that (as read): Bodor '328 claimed priority to
`the Bodor PCT.
` Is that what it says here?
` ATTORNEY McGUFFIN: Object to form.
` A Yes.
`
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`Transcript of Dr. Nicholas Bodor
`Conducted on May 28, 2024
`
`26
`
`Q Okay.
`
`In patent prosecution do you understand
`
`there to be any difference between a priority
`
`claim and being the national stage entry of an
`
`international application?
`
`ATTORNEY McGUFFIN: Objection.
`
`Foundation.
`
`Form.
`
`Scope.
`
`A
`
`I have an idea.
`
`You know,
`
`I'm not sure
`
`that I know more details.
`
`Q Okay.
`
`What's your idea of it?
`
`Scope.
`
`ATTORNEY McGUFFIN:
`
`Same objection.
`
`A That there is a PCT file which lists a lot
`
`of countries. And there is a U.S. correspondent
`
`to that PCT.
`
`Q Okay.
`
`So your testimony in paragraph 24,
`
`that
`
`the Bodor 328 claimed priority to the Bodor PCT,
`
`you didn't mean it's not the national stage entry
`
`of that PCT, right?
`
`ATTORNEY McGUFFIN: Object to form.
`
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`Transcript of Dr. Nicholas Bodor
`Conducted on May 28, 2024
`
`27
`
`A
`
`I don't know.
`
`Q Okay.
`
`I think you said in your April deposition
`
`that you were more focused on this U.S.
`
`prosecution than on the PCT application;
`
`is that
`
`ATTORNEY SEGREST: Okay.
`
`right?
`
`Scope.
`
`ATTORNEY McGUFFIN: Object to form.
`
`A
`
`I -- I don't remember what the detail is.
`
`Q Would that be an accurate statement that
`
`you were more focused on the U.S. application
`
`process than on the PCT application?
`
`ATTORNEY McGUFFIN:
`
`Can I also interject
`
`that transcript is subject to a protective order.
`
`So please be cautious about revealing contents on
`
`this transcript which is not subject to the same
`
`protective order.
`
`ATTORNEY SEGREST: Okay.
`
`So you are
`
`referring to the protective order in the District
`
`Court litigation?
`
`ATTORNEY McGUFFIN: Yes.
`
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`Transcript of Dr. Nicholas Bodor
`Conducted on May 28, 2024
`
`28
`
`ATTORNEY McGUFFIN: We have produced the
`
`transcript to you.
`
`Just, you know, be cautious
`
`about quoting from a document that's subject to
`
`the protective order.
`
`ATTORNEY SEGREST:
`
`Is -- well,
`
`I hate to
`
`sort all this out on this record.
`
`It's -- the
`
`party designating it as confidential in the
`
`District Court is your client, right,
`
`the party in
`
`I don't want to draw
`
`this IPR?
`
`ATTORNEY McGUFFIN:
`
`I don't recall whether
`
`the other parties had any confidential notation.
`
`But since it is designated, unless you're willing
`
`to agree not to oppose sealing of this transcript,
`
`I just want you to be cautious about revealing
`
`information subject to protective order.
`
`ATTORNEY SEGREST: Well,
`
`I think we've got
`
`a motion for protective order on file in this
`
`case,
`
`so under the PTAB rules we'll treat stuff as
`
`subject to the protective order, going through the
`
`procedures in that document for designating as
`
`confidential. That's what we're going to do.
`
`ATTORNEY McGUFFIN:
`
`PLANET DEPOS
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`Transcript of Dr. Nicholas Bodor
`Conducted on May 28, 2024
`
`29
`
`this out.
`
`I just want to note that you filed an
`
`opposition to our motion to seal other documents,
`
`and if you want to oppose sealing this, we are
`
`going to be very cautious about the District Court
`
`protective order.
`
`Q Dr. Bodor, are you still doing okay, do
`
`ATTORNEY SEGREST: Okay.
`
`Can we agree
`
`that for purposes of what we're doing today,
`
`you'll identify whatever needs to be sealed in
`
`this transcript, and as we deal with the
`
`protective order, whenever the board gets around
`
`to that, we will deal with this issue as well.
`
`ATTORNEY McGUFFIN: Yes, absolutely. As
`
`long as you understand that you can't reasonably
`
`oppose sealing of reasonable designations to
`
`protect the District Court order.
`
`ATTORNEY SEGREST: Yes, we may disagree
`
`about what's reasonable, but we will leave it to
`
`the board and the courts to sort that out.
`
`ATTORNEY McGUFFIN:
`
`Sounds good.
`
`ATTORNEY SEGREST: Okay.
`
`BY ATTORNEY SEGREST:
`
`PLANET DEPOS
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`Transcript of Dr. Nicholas Bodor
`Conducted on May 28, 2024
`
`30
`
`you want to take a break or?
`
`A
`
`I'm okay.
`
`Q Okay.
`
`(Bodor Exhibit 1001,
`
`'947 patent, marked
`
`for identification.)
`
`BY ATTORNEY SEGREST:
`
`Does it cite to the Bodor PCT application
`
`Q
`
`I'm handing you what has been marked as
`
`Exhibit 1001,
`
`the '947 patent.
`
`(Document review.)
`
`Q I'll direct you to column 6,
`
`line 24.
`
`Actually,
`
`lines 23 through 24.
`
`(Document review.)
`
`Q
`
`So there on line 24, does the '947 patent
`
`Exhibit 1001, cite to the Bodor PCT application --
`
`ATTORNEY McGUFFIN: Object to form.
`
`BY ATTORNEY SEGREST:
`
`Q
`
`-- WO2004/087101, that's Exhibit 1007 in
`
`front of you?
`
`A Yes, it says (as read): Represented the
`
`Bodor formulations of two CDA.
`
`Q And column -- that column 12,
`
`line 9.
`
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`Transcript of Dr. Nicholas Bodor
`Conducted on May 28, 2024
`
`31
`
`again?
`
`ATTORNEY McGUFFIN: Object to form.
`
`Yes.
`
`And at column 14,
`
`line 44, does the '947
`
`cite to the Bodor PCT application again?
`
`ATTORNEY McGUFFIN: Object to form.
`
`Yes.
`
`It says cite formulation as
`
`with me in the appendix to page 43 of 144.
`
`described in my patent.
`
`Q Okay.
`
`And then on that same column 14,
`
`line 62,
`
`this is the small print beneath Table 2, does the
`
`"947 patent cite to the Bodor PCT application
`
`again?
`
`ATTORNEY McGUFFIN: Object to form.
`
`A Yes.
`
`Q
`
`In your exhibit --
`
`ATTORNEY McGUFFIN: Counsel, do you mean
`
`Exhibit 2054?
`
`ATTORNEY SEGREST:
`
`I'm about to say 2054.
`
`BY ATTORNEY SEGREST:
`
`Q
`
`In your Exhibit 2054, if you could turn
`
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`Transcript of Dr. Nicholas Bodor
`Conducted on May 28, 2024
`
`32
`
`ATTORNEY McGUFFIN:
`
`2054.
`
`BY ATTORNEY SEGREST:
`
`Q
`
`It's your declaration, which is
`
`Exhibit 2054. And I'm looking --
`
`ATTORNEY McGUFFIN:
`
`I'll just note for the
`
`record, you are looking at the exhibit he's
`
`talking about.
`
`BY ATTORNEY SEGREST:
`
`Q And I'm looking at the appendix, which is
`
`after your signature, and it's page 43 of 144.
`
`It's in your CV.
`
`Page what?
`
`43 of 144.
`
`Page 43. Yes.
`
`Okay.
`
`generally, with the patent application process,
`
`So is this the start of a list of some 333
`
`patents on which you're named as an inventor or
`
`coinventor?
`
`A Yes.
`
`Q Okay.
`
`So you're familiar as an inventor,
`
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`Transcript of Dr. Nicholas Bodor
`Conducted on May 28, 2024
`
`33
`
`right?
`
`ATTORNEY McGUFFIN: Object to form.
`
`Scope. Foundation.
`
`A Well,
`
`I mean the patents doesn't mean I'm
`
`familiar with the whole process.
`
`I have my own
`
`way and my counsel on how they work and prepare
`
`patent applications.
`
`Q
`
`Do you understand generally what an office
`
`action is or a rejection by the patent office in
`
`the
`
`patent prosecution?
`
`ATTORNEY McGUFFIN:
`
`Same objections.
`
`A Yes.
`
`Q
`
`So did you know that during the
`
`prosecution of the '947 patent the examiner
`
`rejected some of the then pending claims in that
`
`application over your Bodor PCT application?
`
`ATTORNEY McGUFFIN:
`
`Same objections.
`
`A Which one was it?
`
`Q
`
`So let me repeat the question and see if I
`
`can word it any better.
`
`Did you know that during the prosecution
`
`of the '947 patent, that's Exhibit 1001,
`
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`Conducted on May 28, 2024 34
`
`examiner rejected some of the then pending claims,
`
`citing your Bodor PCT application as priority, and
`
`specifically that paragraph that we looked at in
`
`the PCT application that's quoted in your
`
`declaration? Were you aware of that?
`
`ATTORNEY McGUFFIN:
`
`Same objections.
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
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`
`
`ATTORNEY McGUFFIN:
`
`I'm going to interrupt
`
`to remind you not to reveal the contents of any
`
`communications with your patent attorneys.
`
`It is
`
`fine to discuss the public filings they made in
`
`the patent office.
`
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`Transcript of Dr. Nicholas Bodor
`Conducted on May 28, 2024
`
`35
`
`A Yes,
`
`that was not in there. But I was
`
`saying that they were in Washington and they did
`
`not communicate with me most of the time.
`
`So I
`
`don't remember.
`
`You can answer.
`
`Q And I don't want to confuse you. Let me
`
`try to be clear here.
`
`I'm referring to the prosecution of the
`
`'947 patent that's Exhibit 1001.
`
`So it's the
`
`patent at issue here.
`
`I'm not referring to the
`
`prosecution of the patents where you were named as
`
`the inventor, right?
`
`So your PCT application was cited as
`
`priority against the patents that we're litigating
`
`here.
`
`You are not an inventor on that patent, so
`
`but --
`
`A Oh.
`
`Q
`
`-- my question is you weren't aware that
`
`it was cited as priority against it?
`
`ATTORNEY McGUFFIN: Before you answer,
`
`I
`
`want to note my objections, which are form, scope,
`
`and foundation.
`
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`Transcript of Dr. Nicholas Bodor
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`Conducted on May 28, 2024 36
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`10
`
`11
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`12
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`13
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`14
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`15
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`16
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`17
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`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`
`
`
`
`ATTORNEY McGUFFIN: Object to form. And
`
`just in case, don't reveal
`
`the contents of any
`
`comm
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